WEBVTT - Lemon Out, Tesla Down, SpaceX Up 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:09.520 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.760 Listen. Honestly, I'm not meaning to offend you. You're an 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.480 intense person. Where does that intensity come from? Let's boil 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.640 that way. And I had a tough childhood? You did? 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:24.440 Yeah? 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.720 Huh so right. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.400 Wilf Isaacson goes into it in the book. We only 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.400 have a couple minutes left, so all right, too long 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.320 to describe the one or two questions I can do, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:36.640 and then we'll call it. 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.320 Okay. Again, I don't mean to upset you. Why are you? 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:46.680 You? Just well you are must gives now the richest 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.600 person on the planet. More than half the satellites in 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.800 space are owned and controlled by one man. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.280 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:56.400 I mean legitimate. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:56.960 He says. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.560 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:00.000 be different. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.040 Health vote Republican. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.720 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:04.200 on him. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.360 Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.360 Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:25.000 Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.320 The tape you just heard was a part of a 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.200 very surreal, very strange interview between Elon Musk and the 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.399 former CNN anchor Don Lemon. Today is March nineteenth, twenty 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.080 twenty four. I'm your host, Max Chafkin in for David Popadopolis, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.200 who is on vacation recovering from the live taping we 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.440 just did at south By Southwest. You know, one of 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.280 the funny things about planning this show, one of the 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.560 exciting things about this show is the sheer number of 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.520 Elon Musk news that comes out in any given week, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.680 and this one was no exception. All of his companies 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:00.720 have been making news. There's been new in Earth and 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.280 in space and in the media, and on X we're 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.760 gonna be talking about all of that, talking about Tesla 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.480 SpaceX and Starlink doing basically a Smorgesborg of Elon, if 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.440 you will. And then we're gonna get to that now 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.160 infamous interview between Elon and former CNN anchor Don Lemon. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.680 You just heard a clip from that. Don Lemon's news 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.440 show was supposed to appear first on X, but Lemon 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.000 and MUCKs parted ways, essentially canceled the show after one 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.360 episode after that interview, And we'll do that. So to 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.639 break down all of this Elon News. We have Dana Hall, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.720 who is our four full time Elon Musk reporter. Hello Dana. 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:38.040 Great to be here. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.280 And then later as we dig into the lemon of 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.799 it all, we will be joined by Kurt Wagner, who 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.200 covers social media for Bloomberg News. But first we're gonna 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.200 start with Dana and these news stories a lot of 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.239 big news. I'm gonna run through these, and I want 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.000 you to tell me what, to your mind was the 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.280 biggest one of the past week. So first, Tesla stock 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.440 has been going way down, and Musk has lost his 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.960 spot as the world's richest guy. I think he's in 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.520 third now. SpaceX had a launch of its Starship Rocket. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.560 It was I think kind of successful. Taiwan is developing 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.080 a alternative to SpaceX's Starlink. And we got news about 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.520 a new contract that SpaceX has with the US National 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.040 Reconnaissance Office. Okay, so those are four stories. What's the 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:22.919 biggest deal of those? 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.919 For I would say, of the four stories that you mentioned, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.840 I think the most interesting one is that this news 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.080 that SpaceX has this huge contract with the National Reconnaissance Office. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.160 And it's not a new contract, it's a contract from 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.360 twenty twenty one. But now we know that the NRO 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.320 is doing it, and that's just like yet another sign 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.520 that Musk has muscled his way into being this incredible 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:49.400 part of the military industrial defense complex. And that is 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.440 just like a huge thing that I think that people 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.560 really forget about Elon. He's always seen as you know, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.560 the bombastic owner of X, the CEO of Tesla, but 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.360 his role as a military contry actor just says so 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.040 much about his standing in the world and why the 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.240 US government is so perplexed and be fuddled by this guy. 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.280 And this was a new contract, right, I mean a 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.480 contract that was inked under the Biden administration. You know, 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.000 Musk has talked a lot about you know, Joe Biden 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.039 being against him, but as you I think have pointed 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:18.960 out a bunch of times in this podcast, you know, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.400 Biden administration and people close to the White House can 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.560 be frustrated with Elon Musk, but they also need him, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.279 and I think this is probably another, you know instance 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:27.520 of that. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:29.280 Yeah, they need him for a lot of things. I mean, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.520 strictly on the SpaceX side, they need SpaceX to ferry 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:36.039 astronauts to the ISS for NASA, but they also need 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.800 SpaceX to launch military satellites, and now apparently they also 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.400 need SpaceX to help the Pentagon and the NRO develop 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.000 spy satellites. So this is like a very big deal 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.400 that Elon is in this role and that SpaceX is 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:50.839 in this. 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.200 Role, right, And I mean the weird thing here is, 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.240 at the same time this news of this contract and 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.919 you know, evidence obviously of a pretty robust or growing 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.600 military business with this thing, we're also seeing, you know, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:08.719 Taiwan essentially complaining or getting worried about the prospect of 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.400 having to rely on an Elon Musk hardware and possibly 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.000 developing its own sort of version of starlink. How do 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.560 we reconcile those two stories. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.320 Well, I think that you know, it's kind of like, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.960 no one wants Elon Musk to have a monopoly on 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.400 space based satellites or space based Internet, and he is 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.880 rapidly approaching approaching that, I mean, nobody else. He has 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.359 more satellites for the Internet up and up in space 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.800 than anybody else. And I think that Taiwan very you know, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.119 astutely kind of watching Musk and his relationship with China, 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.279 is just very worried about that, and they want to 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.000 protect themselves. So I think that that makes total sense. 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.440 I mean, there's been a lot of focus about what 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.480 Elon Musk has said or not said about Russia and Ukraine, 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.120 but the whole Taiwan China conflicts like here, you know, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.960 is just like equally important strategically geopolitically. It has a 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.520 lot of implications, and Musk's has said some pretty like 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.840 why things about China and Taiwan that are totally at 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.040 odds with the Biden administration. And so that's like another 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:07.640 geopolitical conflict to watch. 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:07.920 All right. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.240 So just to stay on SpaceX, I mean, I think 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.360 what most people who were sort of just watching cable 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.560 news or whatever probably know about is this SpaceX launch 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.920 which happened last week. This was the Starship rocket. This 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.279 is what Elon Musk has previously called the big e 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.200 fing rocket. I guess that will one day, in theory, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.600 could be sent all the way to Mars. The rocket 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.039 sort of got into space and then it exploded. What's 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.480 your take on this? This is like basically just a 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.440 par for the course or something. This is an in 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.840 development technology. We shouldn't read into it one way or 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:41.120 the other. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.000 I think that media organizations really kind of miss how 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.800 space companies view research and development, which is that you 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.080 have to test a lot and fail a lot before 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.960 you achieve full success. And like I'm old enough to remember, 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.640 you know, like in the early days when SpaceX would 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.599 first try to land the rocket on like a drone trip, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.520 they would always miss, Like the rocket would land in 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.640 the water, it would explode, it would like it would 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.760 hit and fall over, and like we had story after 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.080 story about like how the drone ship test failed, but 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.320 eventually they nailed it, and now they do it all 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.240 the time and it's not a big deal. Starship is 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.200 very similar, Like it was a big leap forward because 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.760 it it cleared the launch pad and it it went 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.560 for farther and faster than it had ever gone before. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.600 And yeah, then it like broke up on re entry. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.560 But like they did a lot, like it was very successful, 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.400 Like in the eyes of SpaceX, it was the most 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.040 successful launch to date, and so in the eyes of 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.160 the company, this was a huge success and they hoped 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.360 to get back at it. I think they're aspirationally like 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:41.320 six to eight weeks. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.440 Yeah, my big question here is like what is the 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.000 business for this giant rocket. 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:46.960 It's like way. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.640 Bigger than their biggest you know, rocket Falcon nine or 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.720 is it the Falcon nine Heavy? But like, do they 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.520 know what it's gonna what the actual like payloads are 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:56.960 going to be, and how they're gonna make money on 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:57.280 this thing? 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.200 Eventually, if they a will to take humans to the 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.400 Moon and Mars, that's the sort of goal. But because 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.920 it's so big, they can launch way more satellites on it. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.760 So I think the biggest customer for Starship is star Link, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.520 like SpaceX can put a lot more of its own 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.160 satellites into orbit using this much bigger vehicle. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.400 Before we get to the next segment, I mentioned earlier 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.720 that Tesla's stock price is way down this year, as 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.680 is Elon's wealth. Dana, you never gave me your take. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.200 Okay, So the process of a limit, Can I start 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:27.200 with the least big deal? 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:27.640 Yeah? 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.800 I think the wealth ranking. I'm so bored of that. 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.280 It's like the richest people in the world jockey back 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.680 and forth, up and down, like it changes every day. 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.360 Who cares, like whether he's the richest or number two 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:38.920 or number three? 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:40.680 Okay, but I agree with you, But that's not the 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.640 actual story. The story is that Tesla's stock it's down 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:45.959 more than any other or it's sort of been neck 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.600 and neck with another well known company, Boeing, which of 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.079 course has had like plain parts falling off. Last I checked, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.760 Tesla had actually performed worse since the beginning of the 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.240 year than Boeing. So the actual story is Tesla's stock 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.640 has lost an insane amount out of its market share. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.640 Tesla stock is way down this year. Investors are sort 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:09.360 of frustrated. There's not like a real growth wave anytime soon. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.480 A lot is riding on the next generation vehicle. You're 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.320 seeing Nvidia and all of these like big tech companies 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.200 that make up the Magnificent seven get all of this limelight. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.600 But you know, Tesla's stock has always been volatile. I 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:23.880 don't think it's like I mean, I don't think it's 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.840 like in a free fall. I just think that there's 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.480 like a lot, you know, like it's not clear what 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.439 the next big catalyst is going to be, and so 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.640 that's what has investors kind of bummed out. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.160 I mean, my ranking is almost the exact opposite of yours. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.520 For what it's worth, my ranking goes Tesla's. Tesla's stock 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.520 followed by the launch, followed by the nro the star 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.080 Shield Starlink contract with the US government, followed by Taiwan 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.080 complaining about Musk's dominance. You know, I just think, like 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.280 we're talking about somebody who I think, like what he 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:57.040 does depends on how the stock is doing, on how 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.960 he perceives his own how he perceives people are reacting 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.240 to him. And I think like these headlines saying that 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.920 Tesla is the worst performing stock of the SMP. It's 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.480 worse than even the you know, airline that can't keep 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.800 the you know, parts of the playing together. You know, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.760 Elon is an extremely online guy. I do think that 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.160 is really important. Although I completely agree Dana the wealth 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.040 question is is not really relevant or that or that interesting. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:22.920 I mean, when you're worth more than one hundred and 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.720 fifty billion, you know, what's a few billion here there? 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.680 Yeah, I mean Elon is very aware of his own wealth, 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:32.199 let's put it that way. He's not very liquid. 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:36.920 All right. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.040 Now, we're going to get into the Don Lemon Elon 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.000 Musk interview, and to do that, we're going to bring 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.640 in Bloomberg News social media reporter Kurt Wagner. Kurt, Welcome 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:46.199 to Elon Inc. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.400 Hi Max, thank you for having me all right. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.400 So Don Lemon former Sienna and anchor who was by 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.640 his own account fired last year, you know, after a 0:10:55.679 --> 0:11:00.640 series of controversial appearances on TV during which he said 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.240 that Nicky Haley was quote not in her prime, got 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:09.520 into a racially inflected confrontation from Vivek Ramaswami. He announced 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.480 that he was coming X because you know, he wanted 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.800 a place for a quote, an honest debate without hall monitors. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.680 He promised his new show, The Don Lemon Show, would 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.520 be bigger, bolder, freer. Kurt, you watched it, Did it 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:23.880 deliver on that promise? 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.640 I have to admit I probably didn't watch enough Don 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.800 Lemon before this interview to fully compare er s. 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.679 It was big, but not necessarily bigger. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.160 I'm saying it's big, but yeah, the jury still out 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:37.240 on the bigger part. 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.800 I feel like, you know, this interview was really interesting 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:40.000 to me. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.760 It obviously like I ended up, of course watching the 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.600 whole hour, and the second half was just so much 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.880 more like awkward because you could tell that Elon was 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.000 so visibly frustrated with what was going on that it 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.160 started off, you know, even though he was asking sort 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.160 of some confrontational questions. 0:11:58.240 --> 0:11:59.760 Actually thought it started off okay. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.480 And I was like, right, you know, there's kind of 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.920 like he's asking the tough questions that we would all 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.160 want someone to ask Elon if he was there. But 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.640 the second half just got so uncomfortable to me because 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.520 Lemon was really like needling him on certain specific things 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.400 that it was very clear Elon had no interest in 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.760 actually talking about. And so you know, you saw that confrontation, 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.160 which makes for I guess, you know, great great video 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.640 content if you want to call it that, but you know, 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:25.520 the interview. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.199 Itself I thought got progressively worse. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.120 Well, we should say just at the top of this 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.800 segment that after the interview, Elon Musk essentially, according to 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.559 Don Lemon, canceled what was supposed to be a deal 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.640 to air the Don Lemon Show Bigger Boulder, Freer without Hall, Monitors, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.880 all that good stuff that it was already done. But 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.319 basically by the end of the interview, as Elon Musk 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.200 you know, walked away, you know, in frustration. It seemed 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.079 Dana there were, like Kurt says, a couple of kind 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.600 of tough questions. Don Lemon asked, I guess about two 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.760 related topics, drug use, and that the impact of that 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.520 use on national security, which is that if Elon does it, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:05.000 it's good. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:05.520 Yeah. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.400 I think what was really interesting about the interview was 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:12.160 that Lemon asked Elon Musk specifically about his usages of ketamine, 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.640 which you know has been rumored about for years, and 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:16.680 the Wall Street Journal had a whole story about Musk 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.280 and drug use, and Musk was very open about it. 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.640 He said, I have a prescription for ketamine. I take 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.280 it for depression. I you know, sometimes have it helps 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.640 me get out of these bad moods. I'm under a 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.199 doctor's care. I don't take it a lot. There are 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:31.920 weeks when I don't take it at all, but like 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.120 I take it, And investors should be happy with that 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.160 because Wall Street fundamentally cares about execution. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.480 Teesley is worth about as much as the rest of 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.000 the car industry combined from nothing, So I know that's 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.640 pretty good as a mention. We had the best LA 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.120 Car autoth last year. So for investors work, if there 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:51.720 is something I'm taking, I should keep take it. 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.240 This is Dana the I think what Matt Levine are 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.120 kinbably called the Elon theory of management. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.319 I think it's remarkable that we're in a day and 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.720 age where as CEO is now talking so openly about 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.680 his mental health. And I thought that the way that 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:10.480 he answered the question was actually assuring to Tesla investors, 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.600 because the interview aired on Monday, and like Tesla stock 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.839 was up six percent yesterday, and we were sort of joking, oh, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.080 like investors like prescription drugs. But it was like he 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.440 just answered it forthrightly, He was honest about it. He 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.640 was like, yes, like I take ketamine, Like what is 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.440 the big deal? And ketamine is increasingly legal, it is 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.040 used in all kinds of therapies for people with PTSD, 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.640 and the Veterans administrations like it's very much where you know, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.240 the use of psychedelics and things like ketamine are very 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.840 much where marijuana was twenty years ago in terms of 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.120 just growing social exceptions and a growing body of research 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.320 that it can be an effective tool. And so I 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.920 thought that Musk candled that actually very well, and it 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.560 was kind of like now we've got like the drug 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.640 use questions sort of like done. Like Musk affirmed on 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.000 camera on tape that yes he has a prescription for ketamine. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.480 Actually, Elon and his allies sharing these clips like using 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.400 them to kind of you know, own or dunk on 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.480 Don Lemon. The weird thing is, you know, ahead of 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.520 this interview, Don Lemon, who is, like it should be said, 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.600 making the most of this right, like he is not 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.080 letting this opportunity go to ways. He went on CNN 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.920 last week to essentially complain. He implied very strongly it 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.520 had been the drug thing, although I don't think it 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.360 was the drug thing, right Kurt. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.520 I mean, we don't know exactly what part of the 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.920 interview set Elon off to cancel this partnership, but I 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.520 agree with both of you. I mean that was pretty 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.320 early in the conversation, and I thought, I agree. I 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.080 thought Elon handled it well, like he talked about it. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.880 He didn't labor any of the points, but like we 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.160 did get some answers, and I thought where it really 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.240 went off the rails for me was like much later 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.880 on towards the towards the end, when they started talking 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:55.720 about Elon's views on speech and what Elon calls censorship 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.119 and what Don Lemon was referring to as you know, moderation, 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.920 and and like you could tell at that point that 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.280 they just fundamentally disagreed on what Elon should be doing 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.920 with X. And I felt like the end of that 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.960 exchange was the moment where, if I had to pinpoint, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.360 I would say he was just like, Okay, you know 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.320 this guy, this guy's clearly not aligned with my views 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.520 on what X should be and where it stands on 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.040 the on the spectrum of free speech. And there's no 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:24.400 way I'm giving this guy any money. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.200 Yeah, totally agree. And you know, Don Lemon had not 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.280 promised that Cringe would be a part of the show, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.520 but I definitely think in that moment it was. It 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.640 was really a rough lesson. Let's let's hear a little 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:40.120 bit of that exchange. So you said, if they kill 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.760 the company, it's them, but doesn't the Buck stop with you? 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:51.360 I mean, you're on. I have to say, choose your question, Kathy. 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.240 That's five minutes left, okay, But so the same question 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.000 you want to ask, the same question as you said 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.080 that they are killing the company, but you're the head 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.840 of the company, the Buck business stup of the I 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.680 acquired X in order to preserve freedom of speech in 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.760 America the First Amendment, and I want to stick to 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.159 that and if that means making less money, so be it. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:15.560 I mean that's. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.280 Produce our questions carefully. I'm going to use that. I 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:19.120 love that line. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.120 Have you heard him speak to people that way, either 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:23.359 of you. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.879 I think that this is kind of classic Elon. He 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.720 gets he gets like he's very sensitive, and he gets 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.960 very he gets upset easily, Like I mean, like when 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.359 he was at the deal Book conference at the Year Times, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.639 he got like pretty upset about the whole idea of 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.520 advertisers blackmailing him and you know, told famously told them 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.760 to go f themselves. And like I think he also 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.160 gets bored, and his time is pretty I mean, it's 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.680 for a guy who has run six companies, Like it's 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.480 amazing that he gave that. He that he talks so 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.600 much and so openly all the time on all these events, 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.000 but he gave this guy an hour, and I think 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.919 he just got increased, seemingly annoyed, and like it was 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.680 like I felt like we were watching, like I felt 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:07.760 like a volcano was about to explode. And then like 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.520 he gets like more and more kind of quiet and 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.960 like intense as his rage is boiling beneath the surface. 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.800 I was going to agree he's done some Twitter spaces 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.840 in the you know eighteen months or so since he's 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.000 taken over the company, and there's been some moments where 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.399 you know, they'll bring someone up sort of quote unquote 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.040 on stage to ask a question, and the either ramble 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.639 or they're they'll actually ask him a challenging question that 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:31.560 he's not used to getting, and he'll sort of do 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.520 the same, like he'll cut them off and or just 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.720 completely change the subject and sort of dismiss that person. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.359 So that that's where I've heard him do it before. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.880 It really is a good reminder that like he has 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.639 not allowed himself to be with a critic like he 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.639 even here right even in this interview where he is 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.720 is dealing with questions he doesn't like, where Don Lemon 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.920 seems really be getting under his skin by pointing out, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:54.840 you know the obvious, which is like your CEO of 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.439 this company, you keep saying Disney's killing it, but you 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:01.520 know it's it's actually you, and Elon just can't take it. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.440 I mean, it's a good reminder that these other interviews 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.879 have been in extremely friendly conditions where where Elon is 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.080 either with like Joe Rogan or Lex Friedman, one of 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.000 these influencer types who is you know, kind of borderline 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.800 sycophanic with him, or where he's like literally controlling the 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.159 other participant's microphone like in an X space is a 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.399 Twitter spaces thing, Kurt, he made good on his thread threat. 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.280