1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 2: Listen. Honestly, I'm not meaning to offend you. You're an

3
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,480
Speaker 2: intense person. Where does that intensity come from? Let's boil

4
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 2: that way. And I had a tough childhood? You did?

5
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

6
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 2: Huh so right.

7
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 3: Wilf Isaacson goes into it in the book. We only

8
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 3: have a couple minutes left, so all right, too long

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,320
Speaker 3: to describe the one or two questions I can do,

10
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 3: and then we'll call it.

11
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 2: Okay. Again, I don't mean to upset you. Why are you?

12
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 4: You? Just well you are must gives now the richest

13
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 4: person on the planet. More than half the satellites in

14
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 4: space are owned and controlled by one man.

15
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 5: Well, he's a legitimate super genius.

16
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 2: I mean legitimate.

17
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 5: He says.

18
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 1: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will

19
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 1: be different.

20
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 5: Health vote Republican.

21
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant

22
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: on him.

23
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 5: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

24
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

25
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 4: Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.

26
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 4: The tape you just heard was a part of a

27
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 4: very surreal, very strange interview between Elon Musk and the

28
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 4: former CNN anchor Don Lemon. Today is March nineteenth, twenty

29
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 4: twenty four. I'm your host, Max Chafkin in for David Popadopolis,

30
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 4: who is on vacation recovering from the live taping we

31
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 4: just did at south By Southwest. You know, one of

32
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 4: the funny things about planning this show, one of the

33
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,560
Speaker 4: exciting things about this show is the sheer number of

34
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 4: Elon Musk news that comes out in any given week,

35
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 4: and this one was no exception. All of his companies

36
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 4: have been making news. There's been new in Earth and

37
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 4: in space and in the media, and on X we're

38
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 4: gonna be talking about all of that, talking about Tesla

39
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 4: SpaceX and Starlink doing basically a Smorgesborg of Elon, if

40
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 4: you will. And then we're gonna get to that now

41
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 4: infamous interview between Elon and former CNN anchor Don Lemon.

42
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 4: You just heard a clip from that. Don Lemon's news

43
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 4: show was supposed to appear first on X, but Lemon

44
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 4: and MUCKs parted ways, essentially canceled the show after one

45
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 4: episode after that interview, And we'll do that. So to

46
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,639
Speaker 4: break down all of this Elon News. We have Dana Hall,

47
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 4: who is our four full time Elon Musk reporter. Hello Dana.

48
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 5: Great to be here.

49
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 4: And then later as we dig into the lemon of

50
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,799
Speaker 4: it all, we will be joined by Kurt Wagner, who

51
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 4: covers social media for Bloomberg News. But first we're gonna

52
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 4: start with Dana and these news stories a lot of

53
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,239
Speaker 4: big news. I'm gonna run through these, and I want

54
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 4: you to tell me what, to your mind was the

55
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 4: biggest one of the past week. So first, Tesla stock

56
00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 4: has been going way down, and Musk has lost his

57
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 4: spot as the world's richest guy. I think he's in

58
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,520
Speaker 4: third now. SpaceX had a launch of its Starship Rocket.

59
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 4: It was I think kind of successful. Taiwan is developing

60
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 4: a alternative to SpaceX's Starlink. And we got news about

61
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 4: a new contract that SpaceX has with the US National

62
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 4: Reconnaissance Office. Okay, so those are four stories. What's the

63
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 4: biggest deal of those?

64
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,919
Speaker 5: For I would say, of the four stories that you mentioned,

65
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 5: I think the most interesting one is that this news

66
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 5: that SpaceX has this huge contract with the National Reconnaissance Office.

67
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 5: And it's not a new contract, it's a contract from

68
00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 5: twenty twenty one. But now we know that the NRO

69
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 5: is doing it, and that's just like yet another sign

70
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 5: that Musk has muscled his way into being this incredible

71
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 5: part of the military industrial defense complex. And that is

72
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 5: just like a huge thing that I think that people

73
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 5: really forget about Elon. He's always seen as you know,

74
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 5: the bombastic owner of X, the CEO of Tesla, but

75
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 5: his role as a military contry actor just says so

76
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 5: much about his standing in the world and why the

77
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 5: US government is so perplexed and be fuddled by this guy.

78
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 4: And this was a new contract, right, I mean a

79
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 4: contract that was inked under the Biden administration. You know,

80
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 4: Musk has talked a lot about you know, Joe Biden

81
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 4: being against him, but as you I think have pointed

82
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 4: out a bunch of times in this podcast, you know,

83
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,400
Speaker 4: Biden administration and people close to the White House can

84
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 4: be frustrated with Elon Musk, but they also need him,

85
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,279
Speaker 4: and I think this is probably another, you know instance

86
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 4: of that.

87
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, they need him for a lot of things. I mean,

88
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 5: strictly on the SpaceX side, they need SpaceX to ferry

89
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,039
Speaker 5: astronauts to the ISS for NASA, but they also need

90
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 5: SpaceX to launch military satellites, and now apparently they also

91
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 5: need SpaceX to help the Pentagon and the NRO develop

92
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 5: spy satellites. So this is like a very big deal

93
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 5: that Elon is in this role and that SpaceX is

94
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:50,839
Speaker 5: in this.

95
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 4: Role, right, And I mean the weird thing here is,

96
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 4: at the same time this news of this contract and

97
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,919
Speaker 4: you know, evidence obviously of a pretty robust or growing

98
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,600
Speaker 4: military business with this thing, we're also seeing, you know,

99
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,719
Speaker 4: Taiwan essentially complaining or getting worried about the prospect of

100
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 4: having to rely on an Elon Musk hardware and possibly

101
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 4: developing its own sort of version of starlink. How do

102
00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 4: we reconcile those two stories.

103
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 5: Well, I think that you know, it's kind of like,

104
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 5: no one wants Elon Musk to have a monopoly on

105
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 5: space based satellites or space based Internet, and he is

106
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 5: rapidly approaching approaching that, I mean, nobody else. He has

107
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,359
Speaker 5: more satellites for the Internet up and up in space

108
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,800
Speaker 5: than anybody else. And I think that Taiwan very you know,

109
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,119
Speaker 5: astutely kind of watching Musk and his relationship with China,

110
00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 5: is just very worried about that, and they want to

111
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,000
Speaker 5: protect themselves. So I think that that makes total sense.

112
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 5: I mean, there's been a lot of focus about what

113
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 5: Elon Musk has said or not said about Russia and Ukraine,

114
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 5: but the whole Taiwan China conflicts like here, you know,

115
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 5: is just like equally important strategically geopolitically. It has a

116
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 5: lot of implications, and Musk's has said some pretty like

117
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,840
Speaker 5: why things about China and Taiwan that are totally at

118
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 5: odds with the Biden administration. And so that's like another

119
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 5: geopolitical conflict to watch.

120
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:07,920
Speaker 2: All right.

121
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,240
Speaker 4: So just to stay on SpaceX, I mean, I think

122
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 4: what most people who were sort of just watching cable

123
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 4: news or whatever probably know about is this SpaceX launch

124
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 4: which happened last week. This was the Starship rocket. This

125
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,279
Speaker 4: is what Elon Musk has previously called the big e

126
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 4: fing rocket. I guess that will one day, in theory,

127
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 4: could be sent all the way to Mars. The rocket

128
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,039
Speaker 4: sort of got into space and then it exploded. What's

129
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,480
Speaker 4: your take on this? This is like basically just a

130
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 4: par for the course or something. This is an in

131
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 4: development technology. We shouldn't read into it one way or

132
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 4: the other.

133
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 5: I think that media organizations really kind of miss how

134
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,800
Speaker 5: space companies view research and development, which is that you

135
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 5: have to test a lot and fail a lot before

136
00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 5: you achieve full success. And like I'm old enough to remember,

137
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 5: you know, like in the early days when SpaceX would

138
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 5: first try to land the rocket on like a drone trip,

139
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 5: they would always miss, Like the rocket would land in

140
00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 5: the water, it would explode, it would like it would

141
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 5: hit and fall over, and like we had story after

142
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 5: story about like how the drone ship test failed, but

143
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 5: eventually they nailed it, and now they do it all

144
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 5: the time and it's not a big deal. Starship is

145
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 5: very similar, Like it was a big leap forward because

146
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 5: it it cleared the launch pad and it it went

147
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 5: for farther and faster than it had ever gone before.

148
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 5: And yeah, then it like broke up on re entry.

149
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 5: But like they did a lot, like it was very successful,

150
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 5: Like in the eyes of SpaceX, it was the most

151
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 5: successful launch to date, and so in the eyes of

152
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 5: the company, this was a huge success and they hoped

153
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 5: to get back at it. I think they're aspirationally like

154
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 5: six to eight weeks.

155
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, my big question here is like what is the

156
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 4: business for this giant rocket.

157
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 5: It's like way.

158
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 4: Bigger than their biggest you know, rocket Falcon nine or

159
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 4: is it the Falcon nine Heavy? But like, do they

160
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 4: know what it's gonna what the actual like payloads are

161
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 4: going to be, and how they're gonna make money on

162
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 4: this thing?

163
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 5: Eventually, if they a will to take humans to the

164
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 5: Moon and Mars, that's the sort of goal. But because

165
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 5: it's so big, they can launch way more satellites on it.

166
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 5: So I think the biggest customer for Starship is star Link,

167
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 5: like SpaceX can put a lot more of its own

168
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 5: satellites into orbit using this much bigger vehicle.

169
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 4: Before we get to the next segment, I mentioned earlier

170
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 4: that Tesla's stock price is way down this year, as

171
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 4: is Elon's wealth. Dana, you never gave me your take.

172
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 5: Okay, So the process of a limit, Can I start

173
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 5: with the least big deal?

174
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

175
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 5: I think the wealth ranking. I'm so bored of that.

176
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 5: It's like the richest people in the world jockey back

177
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 5: and forth, up and down, like it changes every day.

178
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 5: Who cares, like whether he's the richest or number two

179
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 5: or number three?

180
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,680
Speaker 4: Okay, but I agree with you, But that's not the

181
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 4: actual story. The story is that Tesla's stock it's down

182
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,959
Speaker 4: more than any other or it's sort of been neck

183
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 4: and neck with another well known company, Boeing, which of

184
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,079
Speaker 4: course has had like plain parts falling off. Last I checked,

185
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 4: Tesla had actually performed worse since the beginning of the

186
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 4: year than Boeing. So the actual story is Tesla's stock

187
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 4: has lost an insane amount out of its market share.

188
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 5: Tesla stock is way down this year. Investors are sort

189
00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 5: of frustrated. There's not like a real growth wave anytime soon.

190
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 5: A lot is riding on the next generation vehicle. You're

191
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 5: seeing Nvidia and all of these like big tech companies

192
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 5: that make up the Magnificent seven get all of this limelight.

193
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,600
Speaker 5: But you know, Tesla's stock has always been volatile. I

194
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 5: don't think it's like I mean, I don't think it's

195
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,840
Speaker 5: like in a free fall. I just think that there's

196
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 5: like a lot, you know, like it's not clear what

197
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,439
Speaker 5: the next big catalyst is going to be, and so

198
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 5: that's what has investors kind of bummed out.

199
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 4: I mean, my ranking is almost the exact opposite of yours.

200
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 4: For what it's worth, my ranking goes Tesla's. Tesla's stock

201
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,520
Speaker 4: followed by the launch, followed by the nro the star

202
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,080
Speaker 4: Shield Starlink contract with the US government, followed by Taiwan

203
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,080
Speaker 4: complaining about Musk's dominance. You know, I just think, like

204
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 4: we're talking about somebody who I think, like what he

205
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 4: does depends on how the stock is doing, on how

206
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 4: he perceives his own how he perceives people are reacting

207
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 4: to him. And I think like these headlines saying that

208
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 4: Tesla is the worst performing stock of the SMP. It's

209
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,480
Speaker 4: worse than even the you know, airline that can't keep

210
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 4: the you know, parts of the playing together. You know,

211
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 4: Elon is an extremely online guy. I do think that

212
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,160
Speaker 4: is really important. Although I completely agree Dana the wealth

213
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 4: question is is not really relevant or that or that interesting.

214
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,920
Speaker 4: I mean, when you're worth more than one hundred and

215
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 4: fifty billion, you know, what's a few billion here there?

216
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean Elon is very aware of his own wealth,

217
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,199
Speaker 5: let's put it that way. He's not very liquid.

218
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 2: All right.

219
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,040
Speaker 4: Now, we're going to get into the Don Lemon Elon

220
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 4: Musk interview, and to do that, we're going to bring

221
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 4: in Bloomberg News social media reporter Kurt Wagner. Kurt, Welcome

222
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:46,199
Speaker 4: to Elon Inc.

223
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 1: Hi Max, thank you for having me all right.

224
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 4: So Don Lemon former Sienna and anchor who was by

225
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,640
Speaker 4: his own account fired last year, you know, after a

226
00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 4: series of controversial appearances on TV during which he said

227
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 4: that Nicky Haley was quote not in her prime, got

228
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 4: into a racially inflected confrontation from Vivek Ramaswami. He announced

229
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 4: that he was coming X because you know, he wanted

230
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,800
Speaker 4: a place for a quote, an honest debate without hall monitors.

231
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,680
Speaker 4: He promised his new show, The Don Lemon Show, would

232
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 4: be bigger, bolder, freer. Kurt, you watched it, Did it

233
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 4: deliver on that promise?

234
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 6: I have to admit I probably didn't watch enough Don

235
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,800
Speaker 6: Lemon before this interview to fully compare er s.

236
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 4: It was big, but not necessarily bigger.

237
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,160
Speaker 6: I'm saying it's big, but yeah, the jury still out

238
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 6: on the bigger part.

239
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, this interview was really interesting

240
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 1: to me.

241
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 6: It obviously like I ended up, of course watching the

242
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 6: whole hour, and the second half was just so much

243
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 6: more like awkward because you could tell that Elon was

244
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 6: so visibly frustrated with what was going on that it

245
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 6: started off, you know, even though he was asking sort

246
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,160
Speaker 6: of some confrontational questions.

247
00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,760
Speaker 1: Actually thought it started off okay.

248
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 6: And I was like, right, you know, there's kind of

249
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,920
Speaker 6: like he's asking the tough questions that we would all

250
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 6: want someone to ask Elon if he was there. But

251
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 6: the second half just got so uncomfortable to me because

252
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 6: Lemon was really like needling him on certain specific things

253
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 6: that it was very clear Elon had no interest in

254
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,760
Speaker 6: actually talking about. And so you know, you saw that confrontation,

255
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 6: which makes for I guess, you know, great great video

256
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 6: content if you want to call it that, but you know,

257
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 6: the interview.

258
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,199
Speaker 1: Itself I thought got progressively worse.

259
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 4: Well, we should say just at the top of this

260
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 4: segment that after the interview, Elon Musk essentially, according to

261
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,559
Speaker 4: Don Lemon, canceled what was supposed to be a deal

262
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 4: to air the Don Lemon Show Bigger Boulder, Freer without Hall, Monitors,

263
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 4: all that good stuff that it was already done. But

264
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,319
Speaker 4: basically by the end of the interview, as Elon Musk

265
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 4: you know, walked away, you know, in frustration. It seemed

266
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,079
Speaker 4: Dana there were, like Kurt says, a couple of kind

267
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 4: of tough questions. Don Lemon asked, I guess about two

268
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 4: related topics, drug use, and that the impact of that

269
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 4: use on national security, which is that if Elon does it,

270
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 4: it's good.

271
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

272
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 5: I think what was really interesting about the interview was

273
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 5: that Lemon asked Elon Musk specifically about his usages of ketamine,

274
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 5: which you know has been rumored about for years, and

275
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,680
Speaker 5: the Wall Street Journal had a whole story about Musk

276
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 5: and drug use, and Musk was very open about it.

277
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 5: He said, I have a prescription for ketamine. I take

278
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 5: it for depression. I you know, sometimes have it helps

279
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 5: me get out of these bad moods. I'm under a

280
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,199
Speaker 5: doctor's care. I don't take it a lot. There are

281
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 5: weeks when I don't take it at all, but like

282
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 5: I take it, And investors should be happy with that

283
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 5: because Wall Street fundamentally cares about execution.

284
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 3: Teesley is worth about as much as the rest of

285
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 3: the car industry combined from nothing, So I know that's

286
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 3: pretty good as a mention. We had the best LA

287
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,120
Speaker 3: Car autoth last year. So for investors work, if there

288
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 3: is something I'm taking, I should keep take it.

289
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 4: This is Dana the I think what Matt Levine are

290
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,120
Speaker 4: kinbably called the Elon theory of management.

291
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,319
Speaker 5: I think it's remarkable that we're in a day and

292
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 5: age where as CEO is now talking so openly about

293
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,680
Speaker 5: his mental health. And I thought that the way that

294
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 5: he answered the question was actually assuring to Tesla investors,

295
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 5: because the interview aired on Monday, and like Tesla stock

296
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,839
Speaker 5: was up six percent yesterday, and we were sort of joking, oh,

297
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,080
Speaker 5: like investors like prescription drugs. But it was like he

298
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 5: just answered it forthrightly, He was honest about it. He

299
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,640
Speaker 5: was like, yes, like I take ketamine, Like what is

300
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 5: the big deal? And ketamine is increasingly legal, it is

301
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,040
Speaker 5: used in all kinds of therapies for people with PTSD,

302
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 5: and the Veterans administrations like it's very much where you know,

303
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 5: the use of psychedelics and things like ketamine are very

304
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 5: much where marijuana was twenty years ago in terms of

305
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 5: just growing social exceptions and a growing body of research

306
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 5: that it can be an effective tool. And so I

307
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 5: thought that Musk candled that actually very well, and it

308
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 5: was kind of like now we've got like the drug

309
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 5: use questions sort of like done. Like Musk affirmed on

310
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 5: camera on tape that yes he has a prescription for ketamine.

311
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 4: Actually, Elon and his allies sharing these clips like using

312
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 4: them to kind of you know, own or dunk on

313
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 4: Don Lemon. The weird thing is, you know, ahead of

314
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 4: this interview, Don Lemon, who is, like it should be said,

315
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 4: making the most of this right, like he is not

316
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 4: letting this opportunity go to ways. He went on CNN

317
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 4: last week to essentially complain. He implied very strongly it

318
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 4: had been the drug thing, although I don't think it

319
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 4: was the drug thing, right Kurt.

320
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 6: I mean, we don't know exactly what part of the

321
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 6: interview set Elon off to cancel this partnership, but I

322
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 6: agree with both of you. I mean that was pretty

323
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 6: early in the conversation, and I thought, I agree. I

324
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 6: thought Elon handled it well, like he talked about it.

325
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 6: He didn't labor any of the points, but like we

326
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 6: did get some answers, and I thought where it really

327
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 6: went off the rails for me was like much later

328
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 6: on towards the towards the end, when they started talking

329
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 6: about Elon's views on speech and what Elon calls censorship

330
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,119
Speaker 6: and what Don Lemon was referring to as you know, moderation,

331
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,920
Speaker 6: and and like you could tell at that point that

332
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 6: they just fundamentally disagreed on what Elon should be doing

333
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 6: with X. And I felt like the end of that

334
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 6: exchange was the moment where, if I had to pinpoint,

335
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 6: I would say he was just like, Okay, you know

336
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 6: this guy, this guy's clearly not aligned with my views

337
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 6: on what X should be and where it stands on

338
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 6: the on the spectrum of free speech. And there's no

339
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 6: way I'm giving this guy any money.

340
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally agree. And you know, Don Lemon had not

341
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 4: promised that Cringe would be a part of the show,

342
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 4: but I definitely think in that moment it was. It

343
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 4: was really a rough lesson. Let's let's hear a little

344
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 4: bit of that exchange. So you said, if they kill

345
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 4: the company, it's them, but doesn't the Buck stop with you?

346
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you're on. I have to say, choose your question, Kathy.

347
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 3: That's five minutes left, okay, But so the same question

348
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 3: you want to ask, the same question as you said

349
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 3: that they are killing the company, but you're the head

350
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 3: of the company, the Buck business stup of the I

351
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 3: acquired X in order to preserve freedom of speech in

352
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 3: America the First Amendment, and I want to stick to

353
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,159
Speaker 3: that and if that means making less money, so be it.

354
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,560
Speaker 4: I mean that's.

355
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 5: Produce our questions carefully. I'm going to use that. I

356
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 5: love that line.

357
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 4: Have you heard him speak to people that way, either

358
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 4: of you.

359
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 5: I think that this is kind of classic Elon. He

360
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 5: gets he gets like he's very sensitive, and he gets

361
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 5: very he gets upset easily, Like I mean, like when

362
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 5: he was at the deal Book conference at the Year Times,

363
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 5: he got like pretty upset about the whole idea of

364
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 5: advertisers blackmailing him and you know, told famously told them

365
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,760
Speaker 5: to go f themselves. And like I think he also

366
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,160
Speaker 5: gets bored, and his time is pretty I mean, it's

367
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 5: for a guy who has run six companies, Like it's

368
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 5: amazing that he gave that. He that he talks so

369
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 5: much and so openly all the time on all these events,

370
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 5: but he gave this guy an hour, and I think

371
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,919
Speaker 5: he just got increased, seemingly annoyed, and like it was

372
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 5: like I felt like we were watching, like I felt

373
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 5: like a volcano was about to explode. And then like

374
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 5: he gets like more and more kind of quiet and

375
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 5: like intense as his rage is boiling beneath the surface.

376
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 6: I was going to agree he's done some Twitter spaces

377
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 6: in the you know eighteen months or so since he's

378
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 6: taken over the company, and there's been some moments where

379
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 6: you know, they'll bring someone up sort of quote unquote

380
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,040
Speaker 6: on stage to ask a question, and the either ramble

381
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 6: or they're they'll actually ask him a challenging question that

382
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 6: he's not used to getting, and he'll sort of do

383
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 6: the same, like he'll cut them off and or just

384
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 6: completely change the subject and sort of dismiss that person.

385
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 1: So that that's where I've heard him do it before.

386
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 4: It really is a good reminder that like he has

387
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 4: not allowed himself to be with a critic like he

388
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 4: even here right even in this interview where he is

389
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 4: is dealing with questions he doesn't like, where Don Lemon

390
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 4: seems really be getting under his skin by pointing out,

391
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 4: you know the obvious, which is like your CEO of

392
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 4: this company, you keep saying Disney's killing it, but you

393
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 4: know it's it's actually you, and Elon just can't take it.

394
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a good reminder that these other interviews

395
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 4: have been in extremely friendly conditions where where Elon is

396
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 4: either with like Joe Rogan or Lex Friedman, one of

397
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 4: these influencer types who is you know, kind of borderline

398
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 4: sycophanic with him, or where he's like literally controlling the

399
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 4: other participant's microphone like in an X space is a

400
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 4: Twitter spaces thing, Kurt, he made good on his thread threat.

401
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 4: It appears that Don Lemon show the partnership with X

402
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 4: is gone. Where does the format?

403
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 2: Like?

404
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 4: Where does this?

405
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 5: Like?

406
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 4: Does this? Where does this leave the whole plan that

407
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,120
Speaker 4: they were going to have all these TV shows? How

408
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 4: big a loss is Don Lemon for the Elon musk

409
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 4: Linda Yakarino pivot to video strategy.

410
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is what I wrote my newsletter on this

411
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 6: week was that I thought the decision to cancel Don

412
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 6: Lemon's contract or partnership was really the mistake here, not

413
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 6: anything that was actually said during the interview. I think,

414
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 6: you know, as bad as both Elon and at times

415
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 6: Don Lemon looked a in this interview, the issue was

416
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 6: that that he bailed on this partnership and sent a

417
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 6: signal to the entire media industry that partnering with X

418
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 6: is you know, only going to work if you continue

419
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,479
Speaker 6: to make Elon feel good or make Elon feel happy

420
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 6: or safe for whatever you want to say. And so

421
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 6: you know, I don't think Don Lemon was necessarily going

422
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 6: to be the champion that carried X into profitability. But

423
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 6: I also think that he, you know, they really really

424
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 6: talked about this partnership, how important it was.

425
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: It was sort.

426
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 6: Of the he was like the face of this pivot

427
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 6: to video and this like push towards more professionally produced content.

428
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 6: And the fact that they got rid of him so quickly,

429
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 6: to me, is just yet another sign that like Elon's

430
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 6: impulsive decision making is hurting the business of X.

431
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 5: I sort of skimmed through something in the New York

432
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 5: Post about like Don Lemon wanted a cyber truck and

433
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 5: equity and like a bunch of money. Is that true?

434
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 5: Like I couldn't figure out the sourcing of that. It

435
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 5: seemed like a very strategic leak from the Elon side.

436
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 6: Sure, I don't know if it's true, but it it

437
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 6: doesn't surprise me, Like, it sounds very believable to me

438
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 6: that someone who is like trying to come up with

439
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 6: a partnership would say, well, here's the compensation package I want, Like,

440
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 6: let's negotiate this. The fact that they announced Don Lemon

441
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 6: back in January, that Elon sat for this interview, and

442
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 6: that they had not apparently one figured out that compensation package.

443
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 6: And two that Elon was acting surprised at the format

444
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 6: of the show, right, that was his whole thing. He

445
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 6: was saying, Hey, I'm bailing on this deal because this

446
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 6: is just CNN but on X and it's like.

447
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: Would you think you were buying to talk about this?

448
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, So you agreed to sit for a whole hour.

449
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 6: Didn't you know that before you sat down?

450
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 4: So two things on this on the point of Dana

451
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 4: made One is Okay, I don't know if Don Lemon

452
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 4: asked for a cyber truck, but like, he's Don Lemon,

453
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 4: he's a big star. He gets paid a lot of money,

454
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 4: as like Kurt saying, to go on TV and if

455
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 4: your ambition is to recruit other people like you know,

456
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson also gets paid a lot of money. You know,

457
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 4: Joe Rogan, who I'm sure Elon Musk would love on

458
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 4: the X platform, gets paid a lot of money. Like

459
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 4: you got to deal with this kind of thing. And

460
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 4: the approach of like kind of canceling the show, attempting

461
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: to if in fact these were leaked deliberately, you know,

462
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 4: attempting to embarrass you know, former star like it's not

463
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 4: going to make the next deal any easier. And the

464
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: other people that they announced at the same time, I

465
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 4: think one of them is, you know, Tulsey Gabbert is

466
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 4: kind of like an Alt Democrat, not a Don Lemon

467
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 4: level star by any stretch.

468
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 6: No, Don Lemon was the biggest name for sure, and

469
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 6: then Tucker Carlson, the other big name that we all

470
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 6: thought was partnering with X, ended up sort of being like, well,

471
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 6: I put my stuff on X, but I was never

472
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 6: officially a partner. So it's like, even this effort to

473
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 6: move to video has had a ton of fits and starts,

474
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 6: and it's just again, this to me was a huge

475
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 6: red flag for this whole effort.

476
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 4: The other thing, too, is that this is like, if

477
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 4: you're really trying to make this a thing, you don't

478
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 4: want every star to be focused on Elon Musk. If

479
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 4: the only way to get video like viewers to an

480
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: ex video is to have Elon on the video, like,

481
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: that's a bad sign too. Right now, it often feels

482
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 4: like X is just the Elon Musk, you know, reality show,

483
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 4: And of course this Don Lemon thing forwards it, but

484
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 4: it doesn't. It doesn't like allow them to build a business,

485
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 4: you know, in any way. I want to move on

486
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 4: to a couple of the sort of weird political parts

487
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 4: of this, of this interview, as well as some of

488
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 4: the things that Elon's been tweeting about. What did you

489
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: two make of Don Lemon's efforts to like press Elon

490
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 4: Musk on his, for instance, endorsement of The Great Replacement

491
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 4: or the tweeting the recent tweeting about these kind of

492
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: immigration related conspiracy theories.

493
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 6: I think it was good that he brought that up

494
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 6: and sort of, you know, attempted to have some kind

495
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 6: of discussion about this. I think hearing Elon try and

496
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 6: defend some of these tweets was really frustrating to me.

497
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 6: And I think the biggest issue that I took from

498
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 6: this was that there was an exchange where Don Lemon

499
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 6: said something along the lines is, well, don't you feel

500
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 6: some responsibility to sort of, you know, know that the

501
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 6: things you're tweeting are either accurate or as close to

502
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 6: accurate as you can, Like, shouldn't you be kind of

503
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 6: doing your homework before tweeting these things? And Elon's response

504
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 6: was essentially, well, the community will just fact check me

505
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 6: if I'm wrong, and to me, it was such a

506
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 6: disappointing glimpse into his thought process, which is, I'm just

507
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 6: going to say whatever I want, you know, implications or

508
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 6: consequences be damned, and I'm just going to put the

509
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 6: pressure or the responsibility of actually determining whether I'm saying

510
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 6: true things on other people. And as we all know,

511
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 6: by the time anyone fact checks him, or by the

512
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 6: time anyone challenges him or whatever, like, the damage is

513
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 6: oftentimes done.

514
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: Right.

515
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 6: He has reached hundreds of millions of people, he has

516
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 6: he has stirred up his fans and supporters to probably

517
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 6: say many of the same things. And it's just like,

518
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 6: I just thought that was a really disappointing framework for

519
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 6: him to basically say, it's not my responsibility to say

520
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 6: to say thoughtful things, it's everyone else's responsibility to check

521
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 6: me on that.

522
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 5: I agree with Kurt completely. He makes a really good

523
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 5: point that, you know, Musk seems to be relying on

524
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 5: this community notes feature on X to kind of fact

525
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 5: check falsehoods, when if you had actual content moderation, you

526
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 5: could nip that in the bud much more quickly. But

527
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 5: that's not the business model.

528
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and I feel like we sort of

529
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 4: saw some of the limits of that approach. Even in

530
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 4: this interview, you know that the segment where Lemon was

531
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 4: like attempting to fact check on the immigration stuff, I

532
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 4: thought was like pretty weak and ended up just having

533
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 4: Musk kind of repeat a bunch of the same falsehoods

534
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 4: and come off almost sounding reasonable. Like I feel like

535
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 4: if this was on CNN, we would be talking about

536
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 4: should CNN really be like, you know, spending this much

537
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 4: time like giving air to these theories about like democrats

538
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 4: secretly importing you know, illegal migrant you know, sorry, democrats

539
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 4: secretly importing you know, migrants who are undocumented. Like the

540
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: whole idea doesn't even make a lot of sense because,

541
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 4: as Don Lemon said, the migrants don't vote. But if

542
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 4: you just listen to what Elon said, you might think, oh, okay,

543
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 4: like he's very well informed. I want to switch to

544
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: another thing. Dan, it's to stay with you. Why has

545
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: Elon this did not come up on the Don Lemon thing,

546
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: but Elon Musk has in addition to this immigration fixation,

547
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 4: he has spent quite a lot of time on the

548
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 4: topic of birth control and has been like tweeting about it,

549
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 4: you know, over and over again over the past few months.

550
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 4: In February said hermonal birth control makes you fat, doubles

551
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 4: the risk of depression, and triples the risk of suicide.

552
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 4: That claim has been called into a serious question by

553
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 4: actual experts. Is this just this is like some kind

554
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: of weird fertility thing, Like, what's going on with this?

555
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 5: Our colleague Sophia Alexander and I have dug a lot

556
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 5: into this. Yeah, musk is very worried about population collapse

557
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 5: and the lower than fertility rates in the industry world,

558
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 5: and he really thinks that people should have as many

559
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 5: children as possible. He himself has ten that we know of,

560
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 5: and he has funded like an academic at the University

561
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 5: of Texas at Austin to kind of create this whole

562
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 5: institute that's all about fertility and population. And this is

563
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 5: like a this is like a pet project of Elon's intellectually,

564
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 5: and he is like very part of the whole like

565
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 5: natalist movement. And it's super interesting. I mean, I think

566
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 5: that there's a lot more to report out there, but

567
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 5: this is this is part and parcel of that.

568
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 6: I think the people who would be bothered by Elon

569
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 6: musk Man's plaining birth control to people have already either

570
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 6: left or written Elon off because he's said so many

571
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 6: misogynistic and sexist things over the years that like, people

572
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 6: who would be bothered by this are sort of either

573
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 6: not on X anymore or already shaped their opinion about Elon,

574
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 6: And so I kind of feel like at this point,

575
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: anything else that he says in that vein is sort

576
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 6: of just like like, I don't.

577
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: Know, we've heard it, we've heard it before.

578
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 6: Obviously different content, but the same general idea, where like

579
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 6: he is here to explain something that he probably shouldn't

580
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 6: be trying to explain to anybody.

581
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 4: And I mean, just to put a button on this, like,

582
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 4: this is not good for Linda Yakarino, this is not

583
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 4: good for X, right, I mean, Kurt, Like, what's she

584
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 4: doing right now? How do you imagine her? She's watching

585
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 4: Don Lemon, you know, probably trying really hard, I guess,

586
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 4: to cheer on the boss, but also what like just

587
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: thinking like, oh man, this is making things a lot harder.

588
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 6: Well, this was the one question that I was really

589
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 6: disappointed that Don Lemon did not ask, which was, how

590
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 6: does Elon view his own behavior as affecting negatively affecting

591
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 6: Ex's business right.

592
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: They got into this whole.

593
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 6: Idea of like the clip we played about how Disney

594
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 6: Elon is saying Disney's going to bankrupt and ruin this company,

595
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 6: and Don Lemon is saying, well, is is this your responsibility?

596
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 6: And what I wanted him to say is like a

597
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 6: lot of the reason advertisers are not spending money on

598
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 6: X is not because they're worried about where they're going

599
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 6: to show up in the feed. It's because they're worried

600
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 6: about what you're going to tweet on any given day,

601
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 6: and should you be changing your own tweeting behavior if

602
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 6: you want to save X? And he didn't quite get there,

603
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 6: and I was disappointed that that that question wasn't asked,

604
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 6: But it ties into what you were just asking Max,

605
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 6: which is like, how does Linda continue to do this

606
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 6: job right? Because every time she goes out and attempts

607
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 6: to sell something or to promote something, or to lure

608
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 6: Don Lemon to come bring his talk show to X,

609
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 6: Elon sabotages it with his own sort of decision making

610
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 6: and behavior. And so everything we've heard is that Linda

611
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 6: is totally bought into this guy, and totally bought into

612
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 6: this mission. But like you have to imagine, at a

613
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 6: certain point, she's saying, how can I continue to do

614
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 6: this job when the one person who's my boss continues

615
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 6: to undercut all of my efforts?

616
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 4: All right, So to end this show, we've got another feud.

617
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: So you know, we've talked about some of the other

618
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 4: big Elon fuse recently. You know Mark Cuban, the billionaire

619
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 4: former owner of the Dallas Mavericks, a Bay Area pie baker,

620
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: a Nobel Prize winning economist, a famous CNN host, And

621
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 4: we can add Ruth Bader Ginsburg's family renowned Supreme Court

622
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 4: justice now deceased. Her son got into a big dispute

623
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: with Elon Muskin. I'm just gonna give you guys a

624
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 4: quick synopsis of this. So there's an award you may

625
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: have been familiar with, the Dwight d Opperman Foundation's RBG Award,

626
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 4: which has been awarded to quote women who have strived

627
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 4: to make the world a better place for generations that

628
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: follow their own, women who exemplify human qualities of empathy

629
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: and humility, and who care about the dignity and well

630
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: being of all who dwell on planet Earth. Now I'm

631
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 4: not sure about this I'm not an expert in philanthropy

632
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: and I'm not an authority on this, but I do

633
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 4: think a key phrase here is women. Previous honorees of

634
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 4: this award have been Queen Elizabeth the Second, Barbara Streisan.

635
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: The latest honorees include Rupert Murdoch and Elon Musk. This

636
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: led to James Ginsburg, rbg's son saying it was a

637
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 4: quote desecration of his mother's legacy, and the ceremony has

638
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 4: since been suspended.

639
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 5: What I don't even I had never even heard of

640
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 5: this award before?

641
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: Like what?

642
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: Like?

643
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: Who made this decision? It makes zero sense on so

644
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 5: many levels, particularly like the humility part, Like what what

645
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 5: so I haven't followed I haven't followed this, but is

646
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 5: this This is a feud because now that the the

647
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 5: Ginsburg family is feuding about the award itself.

648
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: Ginsburg Feasts versus Musk, I believe is the feud.

649
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 6: When I first saw this, I assumed that the foundation

650
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 6: must be like really strapped for cash because they gave

651
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 6: it to a Murdoch uh and Elon and the hope

652
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 6: was like maybe they would donate or something like that,

653
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 6: because otherwise I don't think it makes any sense that

654
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 6: like it just truly sounds like an onion article or

655
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 6: like a SNL skit or something, because other it just

656
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 6: makes no sense.

657
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: Beyond that we.

658
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: Have talked about one sided feuds. I think this is

659
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: the one sidedest of one sided feuds. I don't believe

660
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: Elon has acknowledged this award or the fact that it's

661
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: been withdrawn. Although this creates an opportunity for a furtherance

662
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 4: of the feud, he could complain and insist that he's

663
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: going to attend the ceremony. I was also like trying

664
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 4: to rack my brain for again, like you, Kurt, like

665
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: what is the reason? And I believe like RBG, like

666
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 4: very early in her career did defend take on a

667
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: men's rights case and there was like interesting legal rationale.

668
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 4: It was about women's rights ultimately. But maybe this is,

669
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: you know, in recognition of Elon's role as a great,

670
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: you know, men's rights poster.

671
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 6: I'm wondering when we're going to hear that the woke

672
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 6: mind virus is the real enemy and the reason that

673
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 6: he lost this this wonderful award.

674
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: Dwight Dio Oberman Foundation, Operaman Foundation, we are here, we

675
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: are ready to explain this if you want to get

676
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 4: in touch, and with that we'll leave it there. Thank

677
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 4: you for listening Elon Inc. And thanks to Dana and Kurt.

678
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 5: Always a pleasure.

679
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: Thank you.

680
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 4: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and

681
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: Rayhan Harmansi are our senior editors. The idea for this

682
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: very show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples New Dad

683
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: handles engineering and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott.

684
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer Happy Birthday is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc.

685
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 4: Theme is written and performed by Taka Yazuzawa and Alex Sigiera.

686
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 4: Brendan Francis Noonan is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman

687
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 4: is the head of Blueberd Podcasts. I'm Max Chafkin. If

688
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 4: you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll

689
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 4: help other listeners find us and we will see you

690
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 4: next week.