WEBVTT - What is Ghost Fishing? 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.160 Hey, everybody, we're going on tour in two thousand and seventeen, 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.440 so listen up. That's right. You can get all the 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 deeds at s y s K live dot com. Current 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:16.119 cities who love us Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Chicago, Minneapolis. No, 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.759 they don't love us so much in Chicago. Oh yeah, 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.200 they're coming around though. In Austin doesn't love us. So 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.599 we need Chicago and Austin to come out and see 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.799 us so you can explain why there's no love. Yeah, 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.320 and everybody else, go to s y sk live dot 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:31.480 com and buy your tickets now because they're going fast. 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.880 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:45.920 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.920 Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry your own rolling. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.040 Put three of us together, get us to talking. You 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.600 got stuff you should know, and you have afternoon tea. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.560 M I am having some tea right now. I see that. Yeah, 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.360 it's um, what's that Tazo stuff with the passion fruit 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.280 and you know hibiscus and everything. I think that's the 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.280 Todso passion fruit hybiscus ta oh yeah that one is 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:18.040 that buzz marketing yeah, well he buzz market for worse 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.880 than t I guess maybe a local heroin dealer who 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.200 who's puts fent and all in it without telling you. Yeah, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.880 that about Jimmy on the corner. Right. We should probably 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.240 not talk too much about heroin though, Chuck, because I'll 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.840 bet you this episode gets played in a decent amount 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.480 of like middle schools. Yeah, and I'm glad we got 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.560 in a couple of jokes early on, because, um, I 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.800 think ghost fishing will rank alongside like the MS Show 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.400 and the HIV shows as the least funny things to 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.280 talk about. Yeah, it is pretty sad, actually, and I 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.480 want to actually find ways for humor. And I was like, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.040 this is really awful and sad. Well, we'll just take 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.680 our usual tech where if it if it ears its head, 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.480 well we'll jump on it and shake it around and 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.160 hold it up for everybody to see. Yeah, I think 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.280 that's what we do. I think one of the things 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.880 that was most depression depression, uh depressing to me was 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.320 the I didn't know about all this and then I'm 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.760 like in the mid forties and I'm just learning about this. Well, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:22.640 you know how we learned about it. You remember first 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.760 hearing about this. We got an email from and I 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.880 feel like such a heel. We got an email from 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.440 a class, like a group um in a class. I 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.640 want to say. It was probably a middle school class 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.120 who had done a project on ghost fishing, and they said, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.160 you know who would want to do an episode on 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.799 this is Josh and Chuck. So they're the ones who 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.760 brought this to our attention. And I cannot find the email. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.280 It's gone. So I'm very sorry group from class that 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.160 I can no longer identify. But you guys, if you 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.119 rode in to tell us to do an episode about 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.799 ghost fishing and gave us some sources to start with, 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.200 you're the only ones who so we're talking about you. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.440 I think it was Mrs Bailey's oceanography class. That's right 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:12.040 at uh Sherman Hemsley Middle School and round Rock, Texas. Man, 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.080 that show, Amen, was all right. I never watched that. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.359 Oh you didn't know? It was pretty good. I mean 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.000 it was just basically George Jefferson as a preacher, yeah, 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:24.120 which is great. Yeah, you could watch him do anything, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.440 you know, George Jefferson as a garbage man, George Jefferson 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.640 as the president, George Jefferson is rescuing sea turtles for 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:37.440 ghost fishing? Is he still with us? I don't know? 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.520 All right, so um, we should This is definitely one 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.560 of the ones we should not just start talking about 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.720 without defining it. First. Most people don't know what ghost 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.360 fishing is. Yeah, And sadly, like you said before we 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.520 hit record, Jerry, uh always asked us what we're doing today, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.360 and you said, ghost fishing. What sounds a lot cooler 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.160 than it is when I when you sent it over, 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.760 I was like, oh, ghost fishing, that sounds really neat, 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.480 but it's no, there's nothing neat about it. No, no, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.240 but it does have a cool name. Agreed. Yeah, technically 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.240 the definition is called abandoned, lost or discarded fishing gear 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.800 a l d f G. And what this is is 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:25.479 professional commercial fishing gear. Uh. And I'm sure there's a 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.120 small amount of recreational fishing gear, but that's not the 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.800 real issue. But commercial fishing gear that has been left 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.839 out to see that then goes on to just kill 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:41.239 and maim sea life for hundreds of years. Yeah, it's 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.640 it's awful. Yeah, And it's a real, really big problem. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.200 Like just to give one example, will kind of go 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.560 around the world a little bit later, but just in 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:56.560 the northeast Atlantic Um there they found in one fishery. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.320 So if you if you look at a c that 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.320 in a higher seas going to have like different fisheries, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.760 different areas where they're like lots of fish. Typically in 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.640 just one of those little spots in one sea in 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:13.840 the world, they found something like five thousand nets. But 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:19.279 this is what they estimated, nets totaling about twelve hundred 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:24.120 and fifty kilometers in length that were lost every year, 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:26.800 every year. So I want to put that into scale, right, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:32.039 I did a little Google mapping. Kilometers will get you 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:39.839 from New York to Chicago. It will be yeah, like 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.280 a hundred million. Um. It will get you from Brisbane 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.120 to Canberra. I don't know where that second place is there, 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.679 so they're both in Australia. And then it will also 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.080 get you a little under a round trip between London, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.760 London and Edinburgh. Yeah, so it's a that's a lot 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.120 of netting and that's just was lost in that one 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.839 fishery every year. Yeah, we might as well just throw 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.480 out a few of these because this is gonna be 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:10.720 a lot of staggering stats. Uh. The U N Environmental 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.800 Program UNIP and the Food and Agricultural Organization of the 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.840 United Nations Nations. And this is a conservative estimate. They 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.760 said that six hundred and forty thousand tons a fishing 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.640 gear or left in the oceans each year. Yeah. I 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.320 did another a little bit of more googling. You're ready, okay? 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.680 That that is equal to five hundred and fifty six thousand, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.440 five hundred and twenty one Ford Fiestas just dumped in 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:42.320 the ocean every year by way out Ford Fiesta's just 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.400 to sully their name. I don't know, because I mean 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.120 four Fista is a well selling car all around the world, 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.120 so everybody knows what a Ford Fiesta looks like. I 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.440 probably couldn't pick one out on the road, but sure 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.000 you could too. You would just know intuitively that that's 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:01.400 a Ford Fiesta. Uh. Here's another example, UM, Washington State 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.080 right here in the United States. UM, they did a 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.240 little clean up job there recently. And we'll get to 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.400 the cleanup efforts because it is happening on a smaller scale, 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.640 hopefully increasing. But in this one area they got, uh 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.400 they wrangled eight hundred and seventy ghost nets, UM, and 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:25.920 that contained more than thirty two thousand marine animals. Yeah, 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.280 and this is just in one part of Washington State. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:35.680 And and if you say, well, who cares about marine animals, well, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.760 everything that included five hundred birds and mammals. Yeah, and 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.320 we're talking like like big big males, like whales. This 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.320 affects everything from whales on down to little tiny fish. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.239 These things are just out there floating around. They get 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:56.240 loose um one way or another, and they just float 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.520 through the oceans and they can travel very very long 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.000 distance is and along the way, animals get trapped at them. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.160 I mean, the whole point of commercial fishing gear is 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.160 to trap animals. The problem is is when you when 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.240 they're operating correctly, they're reeled in and they bring the 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.240 animals with them and then people eat them and you 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.160 can have issues with that or whatever, but at least 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.800 they're not just completely going to waste, which is the 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.720 problem with ghost fishing. These things are like floating little 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.680 islands of death that trapped all manner of sea life. Um. 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.280 And then they just die one way or another, either 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.320 very quickly depending on whether they need to breathe like 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.880 their marine mammal and they can't surface or there um. 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.240 A sea turtle that um that that can't feed any 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.080 longer because it's it's got a net growing around its 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.160 mouth because it stuck its head through a loop when 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.559 it was a juvenile, Yeah, and said, oh what's in 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.080 there that looks neat? Let me stick my face in it. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.920 And now I have a net, and then I grow 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.679 bigger in the net stays there, uh and potentially cuts 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.360 into my skin and becomes a part of me like 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.560 little turn Old mothers tell their turtle babies this, like, 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.120 don't put your head through a loops, just like they 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.240 human mothers tell their kids. Don't stick your arm out 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.319 of a school bus. Yeah, same same thing, I would guess. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:16.400 Here's another stat The World Animal Protection Group estimates that 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.040 getting snared and ghost gear kills about a hundred and 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.280 thirty six thousand seal, sea lions and large whales every year. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.760 And and you know some of these animals are already endangered. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.959 Uh so any conservation efforts are being at the very 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:38.600 least blunted by or stunted I guess both by you know, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.240 these other things going on. It's just it's it's a 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.079 staggering problem. This um, the plastics that they use, I 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.720 mean back in the day, they used to actually not 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.200 even that long ago. Nets were made of things that 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:55.559 would biodegrade, like sometimes they were cotton or hemp um. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:10:01.079 And now you know, as we quote advance unquote with synthetics, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.400 they have these plastics that these things could be out 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.439 there for five or six hundred years. Yeah, and when 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.880 they if they do break up, then the animals eat 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.959 that stuff and die. Yeah. Do you remember our great 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.920 Pacific garbage patch episode from years and years ago. Yeah, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.439 that factors in for sure. Yeah. Well, so a lot 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.760 of this stuff goes and and is attracted to that 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.320 those huge gyres out there in the ocean. And we 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.080 talked about in in that episode about how plastic photo 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.839 degrades when it's just out there in the sun. The 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.600 motion of ocean currents combined with the sun photo degrading it. 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.520 It breaks it down into smaller and smaller bits that 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.280 become part of the food chain, which is not good. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.439 You don't want your food chade eating petroleum based plastics. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.880 And that's what commercial fishing gear is made out of, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:51.960 which again that's why it lasts so long, hundreds of 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.880 years um, which is what you want. You want something 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.760 very durable in your fishing gear. But when it gets loose, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.880 it's a big problem. And like you said, it's a 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.880 early recent problem too, because it wasn't that long ago 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.480 like that people were using nets that degraded a lot, 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.440 a lot easier. Yeah, I mean it says, uh, it 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.000 says in here. I'm not sure where you source this, 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.679 but fifty or sixty years ago. So in the history 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.440 of fishing, this, this synthetic netting is pretty new. Um. 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.360 And this isn't just like and we're gonna talk a 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.640 lot about animals, because that's sort of the main problem, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.920 but um, it's an issue to the industry to like 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.600 it says right here that here in the US, they've 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:37.800 estimated that uh, one single ghost net that's lost or 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:42.360 discarded or whatever can kill almost twenty dollars worth of 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:46.439 dungeness crab over a ten year span. That's just one net, right, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.080 And then there's like you could buy you could buy 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.360 seven that amount of money. I knew you'd get some 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.360 comedy in there. Uh. And then there are you know, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.160 the small vessels, uh, small and even larger vessels that 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.400 can get tangled the stuff. They're divers that can't navigate 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:04.960 through the stuff, so there is a bit of a 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.600 human impact as well. Um. I think we should take 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.240 a break though, because I'm getting hot under the collar, Okay, 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.800 and we'll come back and talk about more of this 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:37.360 stuff right after this. Alright, chuck. So we've we've kind 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.920 of given a good overview. But let's get into just 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:46.040 how fishing gear could kill marine animals. And there's there's 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.959 a number of different ways and it kind of depends 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.240 on the animal. So to start off with, um, we 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.680 mentioned how a seat turtle might be like, oh, what's 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.880 what's on the other side of this loop? Danger? Right? Um? 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.800 Young seal pups might be doing the same thing. There's 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.400 a very famous picture of a turtle with a six 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.680 pack ring. Yeah, man, and its shell is normal size 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.520 on either side of the six pack ring. But then 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.840 it looks like it's one of those waste trainers people 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.040 who have have worn a corset for ten years. It's 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.400 basically the same thing that nylon. That's exactly what this 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.480 commercial fishing gear is made out of. It's made out 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:29.560 of plastic nylon or nilon plastic, and um, it holds 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.880 fast and when it when a turtle gets stuck in 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.040 it or gets it stuck around them when they're young, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.120 as they grow it. Basically they have to grow around 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.920 this thing. And it's not good. It's not good for 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.640 your physiology, it's not good for locomotion. You're going to 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:49.600 be a stunted little turtle when you grow up like that. Yeah, 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.160 they I think you mentioned obviously marine mammals that need 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.960 to surface. Um, they could die within minutes just because 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:03.280 they're simply trapped. They can be affixiated through like immediately 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.440 like that, or through you know, over the course of 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:11.160 months and years die slow, awful, more awful deaths. Uh. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.000 They can prevent them from feeding, like like you said, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.120 if something gets wrapped around their mouth and they literally 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.760 just can't open their mouth, they will starve to death 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.880 or locomotion can be affected too, right, So if you 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.240 are a slow turtle, yeah, you're gonna have trouble going 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.000 after food. Um, and you may starve to death like 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:33.040 that as well. Yeah, or you know, swimming circles for 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.600 the rest of your life because like one side of 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.200 your body is entangled, right. Um, so you said there 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.520 there you can kind of break down the manner of 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.360 death into acute or chronic One of the sad chronic 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.080 ones that got me was from towing. Right. Yeah, So 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:55.080 let's say you're a whale, your decent size mammal, thank you, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.040 you're swimming, you're swimming along, and you get a net 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.560 stuck on you, like hell fast, You're stuck. You could 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.680 still conceivably swim along for a while, for a very 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.680 long while, but now you have basically what amounts to 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.560 an extra appendage, a ghost net dragging from you. That's 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.160 bad enough as it is, because these nets are enormous. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.080 Like I was reading about tuna nets. Some tuna fishers 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.240 use these nets that fall like seven hundred feet deep 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.880 and are a mile wide. So you get a segment 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.720 of that, even just a segment of what are those 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.000 nets on you? It's going to drag you down, make 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.560 it harder for you to just move normally. But then 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.120 on top of that, that net is probably going to 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.000 catch other animals over time, So not only are you 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.960 dragging this net, you're also dragging all the animals who 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.080 have been caught in that same net, and um have 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.360 probably died. And then eventually you're just going to not 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.080 be able to keep up any longer, and you you do, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.680 you drown. Yeah, like I can't imagine a lot of 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:03.600 things more just shameful for for humans than seeing a 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.800 blue whale dragging a hundred foot net full of dead 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.320 sea animals behind it until it dies. It's pretty bad. 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.040 Like I couldn't even have conceived of something that awful 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.560 until I've learned about the stuff. It's last word is 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:28.960 why serious? Um? I know this is not a it's 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.120 not a happy episode. It's not. It's and the other 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.280 problem is it's I think this is one reason a 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.320 lot of people haven't heard of this too. It's like, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.360 how many more problems can we have to deal with? 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.560 It's just add one more to the pile, and it 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.640 makes it really hard not to just get like like 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:53.080 catastrophe fatigued. You know, but you just you can't. You can't. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:54.880 You can't do that. You can't let it happen. You 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.160 gotta go take a break, shake it off, and come 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.480 back at it with with vigor, or you need to 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.239 say this one, this one means something to me so 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.960 much so that I'm actually going to do something about this. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.320 I'm not just gonna like click my tongue and shake 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.160 my head and keep scrolling through my Twitter feed. I'm 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.080 gonna do something about this. No matter whether it's dealing 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.080 with ghost fishing or dealing with climate change or whatever 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.720 strikes you in that way, go after it. And that's 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.280 that's probably the best thing you can do that rather 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.920 than trying to take on everything at once. I totally agree, man. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.400 And I also uh poo poo the idea that like, well, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.720 you can't say this is bad when you still do this. Yeah, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.000 though it can all be bad. Yeah, And like you 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.400 can't not everyone can tackle everything. So if you want 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.560 to be an advocate for for dogs on the street 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.640 and go do that, um, because the obvious thing would 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.879 be for people say well, don't eat fish, don't support 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.439 the industry, right, and like how can you eat How 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.440 can you be a dog advocate and still eat fish? 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.080 Are you going on? You're worse than Hitler? But I say, like, 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.639 find whatever is meaningful to you and try and affect 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.119 change there as best you can. Yeah, but you know, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.840 and then you can say I spent every weekend for 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.679 the last year cleaning up ghost fishing nets and saving 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:26.760 seal pups. What did you do, judge? Uh, so, how 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.200 does this happen? I think that's an enough Like we've 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.520 hit people over the head pretty hard with this stuff. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.560 Are you sure? I think, I mean, there'll be some 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.800 more stats in here, but I think they get the point. Um, 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.280 how does this stuff happen? Uh? And I'm and I'm 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.360 asking us both And I'll go ahead and say one 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:49.760 thing is sometimes it's accidental. Sometimes there's bad weather, um, 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.600 and you you have to abandon your gear. Yeah. There 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.639 was a two thousand nine UM United Nations Food and 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.640 Agriculture Organization report that found that most ghost fishing gear 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:07.200 is not intentionally discarded, that most of it is accidentally lost, right, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.400 which is good that that makes you feel a little better. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.120 And it's not just fisherman don't like who ca yeah 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.960 see you in hell see, but that that also does happen. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.439 It does sadly, it's nice to know that that's not 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.400 the bulk of it, right, So that when it's unintentional, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.600 when it's accidental or something like that. In active nature, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.920 a lot of times it's just um, severe weather, like 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.800 a big storm comes up and just breaks your lines 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.760 and all of a sudden all of your nets are lost. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.000 And believe me, if you're a commercial fisherman, that is 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.480 about the worst thing that can happen to you short 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.680 of sinking while you're out, you know, especially if your 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.840 net was already full and you're reeling it in and 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.600 you lost it because of nature. Um, that's that's that's 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.520 bad for everybody. Another thing that can happen is and 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.080 this is one of the bad ones. You could be 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.960 have elite a gear, or be fishing illegally, maybe using 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:04.959 a method you shouldn't or in a place you shouldn't be, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.879 and you, uh, there's what's called enforcement pressure, and you 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.840 abandon your gear because you don't want to get in trouble. Yeah, 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:19.400 there basically just kind of whistle like I wasn't doing anything. Um. 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.720 There's also what they call spatial pressure, where if you 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:29.440 have some nets floating along and another boat comes into 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.600 the area, doesn't see it, and runs over them, basically 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.479 cut some loose from their moorings. Then that has just 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:41.639 become ghost fishing gear itself. Yeah. The economic pressure I 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.920 don't fully get this. What I would imagine that could 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.399 mean is, you know, it would cost us more to 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:51.200 go out and retrieve these things than to just go 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.960 back to port and get these guys off the clock. 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.520 That's part of it. That is definitely part of it, 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.399 I think, like if you're I think more often than not, 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.479 is if your gear is all torn up or whatever, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.560 and if you take it back to port and you're 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.840 charged a fee for dumping it because it's considered waste, 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.480 Like I think that's that's how it's treated in the Netherlands. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.040 It makes more sense for you just litter if you're 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.000 gonna have to pay to have it disposed of properly, 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.680 the well the sea can take it. I'll just cut 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:26.680 it loose and look the other way and go back 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.159 home and say, what fishing gear. I don't have anything 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.000 to throw away. So that's economic pressure. And to me, 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.320 we'll talk about later. That is the key dissolving ghosts 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.840 fishing if you ask me, Yeah, and real quickly, like 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.600 I don't think we said for sure, it's not always 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.760 just nets um like crab pots and traps and nets 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.080 for sure, fishing line, hooks, rope. And the one that 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:56.919 really chase me is packing bands. So these bands around 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:02.360 bait boxes and stuff, those are clearly just dumped. Oh yeah, 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.200 they just tossed it over the side. Yeah, And that's 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.639 actually in violation of a United Nations UM convention from 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.320 y three that basically was looking to stop pollution from 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:17.520 ships and um, you're not supposed to throw anything over 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.199 the side, from those packing bands to cooking oil that 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.840 you fried your French fries in. Like, nothing is supposed 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.440 to go over the side except possibly fishing trails from 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.359 cleaning fish. It's called the Don't be a Huge Jerk Convention. Yeah, 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.520 of ninety that was a heck of a convention. Uh 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.320 so some of the indirect it was, wasn't it. It's 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.439 basically like a Max Funcan convention. I remember that and 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:48.760 Fred Rogers that was the keynote speaker. It's pretty great. Uh. 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.159 Some of the indirect causes and we'll see here in 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:55.160 a bit. One of the biggest, biggest problems is, like 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:57.840 you said, when you come back in with maybe unwanted 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:02.160 fishing gear and there's a where to dispose of it. Um, 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:06.439 just simply a lack of these facilities at port uh 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:08.960 is a big, big problem. Yeah, And that could is 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.800 that what you said could fix at all, no putting making, 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:18.760 changing it from being an economic burden economic incentive to 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.000 bring in your old fishing gear. I think that will 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:24.399 change it. But that's what you just said is a 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.399 huge part of that you need to have places for 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:29.960 people that either take it and get money in exchange 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:32.359 for their old stuff, or at the very least just 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.919 throw it in a bin somewhere and not get charged 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.000 for it. Yeah, exactly, because you know, if you if 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.240 you know that you can just throw it away right 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:44.159 when you get to shore, it's only going to take 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.480 up that space on your way back in. Um, there's 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.879 a pretty good chance that you're not going to litter 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:55.639 a mile wide net, you know, especially and especially if 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:57.840 you can get money for it. Yeah. And another one 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:00.480 of the big problems here, uh, in this one article 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.640