1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today's show could literally change your life, 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you why. 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: We're joined by. 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Julia Borston, CNBC Senior Media and Tech correspondent. She's on 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: a mission with her book, When Women Lead. So let 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: me ask you a question. Has anyone ever called you 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: too emotional? Too shy, too ambitious, too inquisitive? I've gotten 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: too sensitive? But what if I told you that your 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: biggest weakness could actually be. 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: One of your greatest strengths. 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: Our guest, Julia Borston has the stats to back it up. 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, September third. I'm Danielle Robe and. 13 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 3: I'm Simone Voice. And this is the bright side from 14 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 3: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 15 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 3: share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. Danielle, 16 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: I cannot wait to talk to Julia Borston today. I 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 3: know are both huge fans of her and her book, 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 3: When Women Lead. When I've read that book, I'm sure 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 3: you had the same feeling. I just felt so empowered. 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 3: I felt like I could go out and negotiate. I 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: felt like I knew how to advocate on behalf of 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: other women. I mean, I tore through that book so quickly, 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: and it's so dog eared and filled with so many 24 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: post it notes, because you know how much I love research. 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 3: I was just so impressed by all the deep research 26 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 3: that she did to bring this book to life. 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: Deep research, but she made all the research really interesting. 28 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: And one of the things that stuck out to me 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: is that I think most women have constantly been told, 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: at one time or another, that were too much of something, 31 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: And Julia's book tells you and shows you how to 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: use whatever character trait that is to your advantage. So 33 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: maybe you're quote unquote emotional, but what that really means 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: is you're filled with empathy and are great at connecting 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: with people and are more likely to consider diverse viewpoints. 36 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: Or maybe you've been told that you can't lead because 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: you're shy, but Julia's research will show you that maybe 38 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: that means you actually just spend a lot more time 39 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: listening and therefore learning. I grew up thinking that men 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: were great leaders, that men were smart, that men had 41 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: the answers, And then I actually grew up and I 42 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: realized that women were the ones with the answers, that 43 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: women were leaders. And I think our society caught up too, 44 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: and women are so powerful, and we just don't know 45 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: our own powers sometimes, and so Julia has the facts 46 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: and the stats to back it up. 47 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 3: That was so beautifully, said Danielle. For anyone who may 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 3: not know Julia Borsen, she's a senior media and tech 49 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 3: correspondent for CNBC and the creator of the CNBC Disruptor 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 3: fifty List. It's an annual list that highlights the most innovative, 51 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: fastest growing private companies. And for this book, When Women Lead, 52 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 3: Julia interviewed over one hundred women across multiple sectors and backgrounds, 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: and she paired their stories with dozens of studies. 54 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: Today we're chatting about what happens when women lead and 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: why we are actually the leaders we've been looking for. 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 2: Julia Borston, Welcome to the bright Side. 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 4: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 4: I'm a big fan. This is a bit of a reunion. 59 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 3: Julia and I used to be colleagues together at the 60 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: NBC Bureau in Los Angeles, and Danielle has interviewed Julia separately, 61 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 3: of I've interviewed Julia separately, and now we finally get 62 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 3: to have a conversation together all together. 63 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: It's a party as Julia said it. She said she's 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: a fan of the pod, but I think we're Julia fans. 65 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: Oh, totally, one hundred percent. It's a love fest. 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: Yes, Julia, you write quote In reporting this book, I 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 3: wasn't just testing hypotheses about female entrepreneurs. I was learning 68 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: to better navigate the world. What's the most surprising fact 69 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 3: you learned about women in leadership through your research that's changed. 70 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: The way that you viewed the world. You know, when 71 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 4: I started off this project, and it really started with interviews, 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 4: and I interviewed over one hundred and twenty women, and 73 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 4: then those interviews led me to research a lot of 74 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 4: studies and data to explain what it was that those 75 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 4: women were doing that enabled them to be so successful. 76 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: I kind of thought I was going to find a 77 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: playbook for successful female leadership, and what I found was 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 4: something totally different that absolutely changed the way I think 79 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 4: about what it means to be a successful leader. And 80 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,559 Speaker 4: what it really comes down to is authenticity. The best 81 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 4: leaders do not follow any sort of playbook. They are 82 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 4: true to who they are. They really understand themselves, their 83 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 4: strengths and weaknesses, and they use that self knowledge to 84 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 4: push themselves to set goals, but also to surround themselves 85 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 4: with people who are going to help them. And I 86 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 4: think there was something about this that female leaders already 87 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 4: don't fit the model of what a stereotypical male leader 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 4: is going to look like. And the ones who have 89 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 4: really managed to succeed are the ones who say, not 90 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 4: only do I not fit that model, Maybe I just 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 4: need to figure out what my own model is, and 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 4: we can be most successful if we're really true to ourselves. 93 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: Julia, I entered the workforce in twenty thirteen for the 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: first time, and I felt so ill equipped. I realized 95 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to communicate in a corporate atmosphere. 96 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to disagree. I really felt like 97 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: I had no tools. So I do what I always do. 98 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: I turned to books, and I got every book that 99 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: I could on female leadership, and each book told me 100 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: about the qualities that I needed to acquire to succeed. 101 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: And the reason that I love your book so much 102 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: is it does the exact opposite. 103 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: Your book is about how women can leverage. 104 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: The qualities they already have to succeed in the workplace. 105 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: I didn't feel shamed one time reading your book, which 106 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: is so rare in these scenarios. So you refused to 107 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: be demoralized by what you discovered about gender disparities, and 108 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: you decided to create this positive framework. 109 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: So let's begin with connections. 110 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: You lay out that women are more likely than men 111 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: to have wide ranging personal connections, and women with an 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: inner circle landed in leadership positions that were two point 113 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: five times higher in authority and pay. 114 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 4: Why is that it's about that inner circle, a trusted 115 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 4: and diverse inner circle. What was so interesting to me 116 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 4: about that study, and I'm so glad that stuck out 117 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 4: to you as well, is this idea that we can 118 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 4: all create what a lot of people are calling like 119 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 4: your own personal board of advisors. This old fashioned idea 120 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 4: that you're going to have a mentor who's older than 121 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 4: you at your organization who's going to tell you what 122 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 4: to do. That's really out moded. That is not how 123 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 4: mentorship really works. But we all need a community, a 124 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 4: network of people who are going to help us figure 125 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 4: out our own path, who are going to push us, 126 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 4: who are going to hold us accountable, and women who 127 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 4: have that tight knit circle of people who are not 128 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 4: necessarily in the same field as them, not necessarily in 129 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 4: the same industry as them. But those are the women 130 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: who are going to say, hey, what about that goal 131 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 4: you set for yourself, what's holding you back? I know 132 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 4: that you can do this, and you should know that too, 133 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 4: and so I think that's why having that tight knit 134 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: circle so important. There's another piece of research that I 135 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 4: found really interesting that I include in the book, and 136 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 4: that's about how women are afraid to draw on their 137 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 4: broader network when it comes to professional stuff. And this 138 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: one study said that women feel very comfortable offering professional 139 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 4: help or advice to their female friends, but they do 140 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: not feel comfortable asking for that professional help. So the 141 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 4: reality is that men feel comfortable asking for professional help, 142 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 4: and that might be what kind of salary are you 143 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 4: asking for? What kind of rais did they offer you? 144 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 4: What kind of terms should I be asking for in 145 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 4: this deal? Men don't feel what these social scientists called 146 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 4: an ick factor. Women described feeling icky and anxious about 147 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: asking other people for professional help. I felt it myself, 148 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 4: and my book came out and I was afraid to 149 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 4: ask people for things, and so many women said to me, 150 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: this is crazy. You literally wrote the book on this, 151 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 4: but you're still feeling it. That's how powerful. These feelings 152 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 4: are that are socialized so thin as women, we need 153 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 4: to acknowledge that the guys are asking each other for 154 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 4: professional help. There's nothing wrong with it, and statistically women 155 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 4: feel comfortable offering the help. So just ask your friends. 156 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: And I have a couple of female friends who are older, 157 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 4: and when they organize group dinners, they'll say, everyone needs 158 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 4: to leave here and ask someone else for something they 159 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 4: need and don't feel ashamed about it. 160 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: Oh, I love that question. 161 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: Where do you think that comes from? That ick factor 162 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: that's so deeply ingrained. 163 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: It's this idea that women are supposed to be warm 164 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: and nurturing. If you look at all of the double 165 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 4: standards that women face, underlying pretty much all of them 166 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 4: is this expectation that women are supposed to be warm, nurturing, 167 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 4: and if you vary from that expectation, you're in violation 168 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 4: with this stereotype. And it's confusing to people, or it's 169 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 4: off putting to people, and they don't like it. And 170 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: there's something about saying this is what I need, can 171 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 4: you help me? Then you're not at the person offering 172 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 4: the help, you're asking for it. And I think it 173 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 4: just stands in contrast with that very old and I 174 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: would say old fashioned stereotype. 175 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: We need to take a quick break, but when we 176 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: come back, Julia Borston tells us the traits that effective 177 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: leaders have in common, stay with us, and we're back 178 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: with Julia Borston. 179 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 3: Another thing that's really energizing to me about your book 180 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: is that the women that you interviewed weren't born with 181 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: this perfect leader starter kit. They learned the traits that 182 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: make them such effective leaders. So what do these leaders 183 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 3: have in common? 184 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 4: So yes, even though each of these leaders is incredibly 185 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 4: different from each other, I have over sixty women featured 186 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 4: in the book. They come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, backgrounds, interests, 187 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: and different personality types. But there are a couple of 188 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 4: key skills and strategies that women are more likely to 189 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 4: have and deploy in successful leadership. One is a communal 190 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 4: leadership style. I was actually arguing with my husband last 191 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 4: night and I was like, I think I'm just more 192 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 4: communal than you are, and you know what I think 193 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 4: you are. But this communal leadership style basically means and 194 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 4: instead of one person running something making hierarchical decisions top 195 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 4: down management, communal is trying to get consensus, trying to 196 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: make sure you really understand what people are thinking, and 197 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 4: trying to figure out how you can learn from everyone 198 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 4: across an organization. Another key one here is empathy. Women 199 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 4: rate higher on empathy tests. You can test your ability 200 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 4: to imagine what someone else is failing or thinking, which 201 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 4: is really what empathy is. In this test that I 202 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 4: actually linked on my website, and again, social scientists, I love, 203 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 4: all these geeky studies figured out how to test this, 204 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 4: and what they found is that women are more clued 205 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 4: in to what other people are feeling, are thinking. And 206 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 4: a lot of times that's derided like, oh, empathy, that's 207 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 4: just the same thing as kindness. It's like, no, it's not. 208 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 4: Empathy is a very specific skill and it's not just 209 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 4: a soft skill. And I hate the term soft skill 210 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 4: because it's so demeaning to me. Empathy is a power skill. 211 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 4: If you can figure out what the person you're negotiating 212 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 4: with is feeling or thinking, we're going to do a 213 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 4: better job but coming to an agreement that's actually going 214 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 4: to be better for both sides. If you could figure 215 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: out what someone's real motivation is, if you're working on 216 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 4: a team, if you can understand what your teammates real 217 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 4: motivation is, what makes them get out of bed in 218 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 4: the morning, you're able to figure out how to get 219 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 4: them to work a lot harder. And another one I 220 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 4: like to talk about a lot is vulnerability, and that's 221 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 4: being not performing vulnerability, but being really honest about your 222 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 4: strengths and your weaknesses and not being afraid to admit 223 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 4: where you have weaknesses. There were some interesting studies about 224 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 4: the pandemic about how employees would much prefer to work 225 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 4: for a female leader during a time of crisis, and 226 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 4: I was so curious about why that was, and what 227 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 4: it came down to is the fact that female leaders 228 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: show their vulnerability. In the pandemic, no one knew what 229 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 4: was going on, and the women admitted it. They said, 230 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 4: we're not going to try to come up with the solutions, 231 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: and they communicated with empathy. I know this is really hard. 232 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 4: I'm struggling too, This is not easy. And the combination 233 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 4: of those two things make female leaders very appealing as 234 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 4: leaders to their employees. And then one of my other 235 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 4: favorite ones is gratitude. Women in general are more likely 236 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 4: to practice gratitude than men, and gratitude to me never 237 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 4: had anything to do with business. It was just a 238 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 4: thing that was about friends or family. So if women 239 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 4: are naturally socialized to talk about things they're grateful for, 240 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 4: when you apply that to a work setting, it means 241 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 4: you're like, Okay, I'm okay with the state of our 242 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: business right now, I'm not going to make an anxious 243 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 4: decision for a short term. When we're okay, no, we 244 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 4: could plan for the long term. 245 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 3: I want to talk to you about a study that 246 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 3: you highlighted that speaks to one of those perceived weaknesses 247 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 3: that is often attributed to women. And this study illustrated 248 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: that men tend to speak up up to seventy five 249 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: percent more often than women in the workplace. 250 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: So not only do women speak less than men, but 251 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 4: they are perceived to speak more than they actually do. 252 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 4: So if you ask a man how much did those 253 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 4: women speak, they report that the women spoke more than 254 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 4: they actually did. So it's just like again, double standards 255 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 4: all over the place. So one of the CEOs I 256 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 4: featured my book, Jennifer Holmgrin. She's the CEO of a 257 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 4: very cool biotech company called Lanza Tech. They literally turn 258 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 4: pollution into fuel. It's amazing just the technology is just fascinating. 259 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 4: She's an introvert, she hates to speak, she'd must rather 260 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 4: never public speak, even though she's the CEO of this company. 261 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 4: And what she said when I asked her, how on 262 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: earth have you been able to raise money from Richard Branson, 263 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 4: who's this super charismatic, high profile guy pitched to raise 264 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 4: hundreds of millions of dollars to grow your company when 265 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 4: you are the most introverted person, you hate doing interviews 266 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 4: on TV. How is this even possible? And she said 267 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 4: that she's been able to use your introversion as an 268 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 4: advantage in that what she understands is she's a really 269 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 4: good listener. She's not anxious to get a word in edgewys. 270 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 4: So she turned this trait of introversion, which has always 271 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 4: been seen as a negative thing in business, into a 272 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 4: superpower by saying, I don't have to speak. I'm going 273 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 4: to listen, and I'm going to listen past the point 274 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 4: where they say the thing they want me to hear 275 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 4: actually reveal what they really want. The other thing is 276 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 4: she figured out when it was appropriate to push herself 277 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 4: and so we all have our strengths and weaknesses. She says, 278 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 4: you know what if I go into a meeting when 279 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 4: I'm surrounding myself by a bunch of men who are 280 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 4: my colleagues, and I have to go raise money. I'm 281 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 4: not going to talk. I know it's not going to happen. 282 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: The investors will ask the questions to the men, because 283 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 4: that's what happens. They don't assume that I, as a 284 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: batite woman, are going to be the CEO. I just 285 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 4: won't talk. I'll just avoid it. So she said, I 286 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 4: know myself and I will push myself to go into 287 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 4: those hard meetings. I won't invite my colleagues to come 288 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 4: with me. I'll be the only one in the room. 289 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 4: So it's a combination of leaning into her strengths and 290 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 4: her particular traits and figuring out when she should really 291 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 4: push herself to overcome her challenges. 292 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: You interviewed Hello Sunshine founder Reese Witherspoon as part of 293 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: this book. We're both curious what your takeaways were from 294 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: that interview. 295 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 4: Well, you guys are part of the Hello Sunshine of family, 296 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 4: and I also inter and CEO Sarah Harden as part 297 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 4: of this And what's so awesome about Hello Sunshine is 298 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 4: that they saw this white space. They saw that there 299 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: was not enough content made for women by women to 300 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 4: tell the stories of strong, complex women. And it all 301 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 4: started when Reese Witherspoon wanted to help herself as an 302 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 4: actor and she was so frustrated by the lack of complex, 303 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 4: nuanced roles as she got older, and she said, this 304 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 4: is really a missed opportunity, and she saw this huge 305 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 4: audience of women. But the other thing that I think 306 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: was so powerful about Reese Witherspoon and Sarah Harden is 307 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 4: this idea that you don't need to tell a generic 308 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 4: story to be appealing to everyone. Like I think of 309 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: little fires everywhere. They really wanted to make sure they 310 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 4: had people in the room who were connected to the 311 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 4: narratives of that story. They weren't just hiring generic writers 312 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 4: to tell a generic story. They really wanted to feel 313 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 4: authentic and specific, and doing so, they had this story 314 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 4: that had mass appeal. I think it's really impressive. 315 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: I also think one of the things I think about 316 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: is how much money Hello Sunshine has put in women's pockets, 317 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: including the two of US comedians, untapped artists. Authors, yeah, 318 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: authors that wouldn't have had a platform or a place 319 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: to go when I started here. Sarah Harden posted something 320 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram that I wrote down. She said that her 321 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: mom told her that the best business strategy is human decency. 322 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: And I find that as a through line in your 323 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: book as well, actually with women and women lead. 324 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think you're right. I think this idea 325 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 4: that if you do the right thing, people are going 326 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 4: to see it and remember it and acknowledge it. And 327 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: I think there was a stereotype for a really long 328 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 4: time that women did not help other women. Yeah, And 329 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 4: in the eighties and nineties when I was growing up, 330 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: that was a stereotip. If there was a woman who's 331 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: lucky enough to get to the top, she was definitely 332 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 4: not going to help the women below her. And I've 333 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 4: talked to some older women about this, and the reality 334 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 4: is it wasn't in their best interest. They knew that 335 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 4: there was room for one of them at the top 336 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 4: and that was it. But times of change, and I 337 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 4: think with that we have seen this movement where women 338 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 4: are so eager to help other women. But the reason 339 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 4: you really should do it is because it's better for business, 340 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 4: Because there is an audience out there that wants to 341 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 4: see content that doesn't just feature people who look or 342 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 4: sound just one way. 343 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 3: Well, as I hear you talking about women investing in women, 344 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: I think about that stat that you cit in your 345 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 3: book that less than two percent of venture capital goes 346 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 3: to female founded businesses. I've personally interviewed a lot of 347 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: women and venture capitalists who are making it their mission 348 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: to change that, to make sure that money goes into 349 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: the hands of female founders. It's all very encouraging. 350 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 4: It's all very encouraging. And one area where there has 351 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: been a real growth is investments into co ed founded companies. 352 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 4: So for a long time, over eighty five percent of 353 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 4: all venture capital dollars went to male only founded businesses. 354 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 4: Over eighty five five percent male only founding businesses. We're 355 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 4: talking about teams with five guys, not a woman on 356 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 4: the team. So I think that companies are realizing that 357 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 4: they will be more successful if the people were creating 358 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 4: the products and services that are used by people all 359 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 4: over the world are not just men. 360 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: It's time for a shortbreak, but don't go anywhere, because 361 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: when we come back, we're talking about unlocking your leadership 362 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 3: superpowers with Julia Borston. 363 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 4: And we're back with Julia Borston. 364 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: So we've talked a lot about the people that you 365 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: interviewed for your book. But I want to ask you 366 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: about a personal experience you had. You interviewed an executive 367 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: for Warner Studios, and after that interview, a PR rep 368 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: called and said that you had been mean during the interview. 369 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: MEA n mean. I'm curious how you responded to that. 370 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 4: Well, so I try not to be mean, right, I 371 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: try to do a good job. I want to be 372 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 4: a fair journalist, and sometimes being fair of means asking 373 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 4: tough but fair questions. And I was shocked and actually 374 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 4: really concerned when he said this. I really pride myself 375 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 4: and have built my reputation on being incredibly fair and 376 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 4: mean is such such a tough word. He also used 377 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 4: the word harsh. He didn't use the bitch word, but 378 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: I've been called that before as well. Oh my god, 379 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 4: And so I was just really taken aback. And I 380 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 4: think when I had been accused of similar things for 381 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 4: prior interviews over the years, I used to really spiral out, 382 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 4: and I think, oh my god, was I mean? Was 383 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 4: my tone too harsh? And I not watch my tone? 384 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 4: And I would go back and I watched the interview again, 385 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 4: and then I'd pull on my colleagues, and my pure 386 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 4: chief was as okay. And this time I'd seen a 387 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 4: study because I was in the middle of writing my 388 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: book when this happened. I'd seen a study about how 389 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 4: women are more likely to be judged on their style 390 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 4: than on their substance. And I also saw the state 391 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 4: about how when women act in a way that is 392 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 4: not warm and nurturing, they are perceived as like breaking 393 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 4: that stereotype, and then it scrambles people's brain, scrambles men's 394 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 4: brains mostly, And so this is a man who said 395 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 4: this to me, And so I said, would you have 396 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 4: said the same thing to one of my male colleagues? 397 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 4: Because I know the tone that my male colleagues used 398 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 4: to ask questions, And I feel like I could hear 399 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 4: his jaw hit the floor. And I wasn't being mean 400 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 4: in the way I was asking that. I was just like, seriously, 401 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 4: would you have said the same thing to one of 402 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 4: my male colleagues? And he's like, you know what, probably not. 403 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 4: I didn't think about it that way. Wow, And it 404 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 4: really made him pause and think. So that was a 405 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 4: really empowering moment because I sort of stopped myself from 406 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 4: criticizing myself and instead said, Hey, this guy's comment says 407 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 4: everything about him and his perceptions and his biases, and 408 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 4: very little about me and what I said in an interview. 409 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 3: Please tell me you sent him a signed copy of 410 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: the book. 411 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 4: No, he retired before the book came out, so I'm 412 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 4: sure he's seen it. 413 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: Julia, there's still time. There's still time. 414 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 3: I learned something from your book that I quote all 415 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 3: the time, which is true. 416 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: Story. She's quoted it to me so fatter, which is yeah, 417 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: it's true. 418 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: So this is one of my favorite stats. It's how 419 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 3: confidence looks different for men and women as we age. 420 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: Can you break that down for us? 421 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 4: So the statistic about confidence in this study is that 422 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 4: when men and women graduate college and enter the workforce, 423 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 4: men start off with a much higher level of confidence. 424 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 4: So they're entering the workforce full of confidence. Their confidence 425 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 4: is way up here. When women enter the workforce, their 426 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 4: confidence is down here. Now, there's not necessarily a reason 427 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 4: for that confidence gap other than what is socialized. But 428 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 4: over time, men's confidence actually declines and women's confidence increases. 429 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 4: Those lines cross around age forty. So round age forty 430 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 4: is when women start to feel as confident as men, 431 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 4: and the social scientists said that they think it's because 432 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 4: women's confidence increases with age. Why is men's confidence decreasing. 433 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 4: Maybe that's because they realize that their goals and home 434 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 4: and aspirations we're really crazy and maybe unachievable, or as 435 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 4: they're in the workforce, they realize how hard things are 436 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: and so then it sort of levels out for men. 437 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 4: But women's confidence continues to increase with age. But I 438 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 4: love that stat because I'm over forty and I feel 439 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 4: like my confidence is only increased with age, and I 440 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 4: think it makes sense for confidence to increase with experience. 441 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 4: And you see more women founding companies when they get older. 442 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 4: Men tend to found companies out when they're younger, So 443 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 4: it all plays out in some of the trends weras 444 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 4: seeing in society. I also think there's. 445 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 3: A motherhood factor to that too, you know, just anecdotally 446 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 3: speaking to moms. And obviously it's not every woman's calling 447 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: to become a mom, and I love that for them, 448 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 3: But for the women who do become moms, I think 449 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: a lot of us feel this like superpower within us 450 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: that gets unleashed because birthing a human, however you do it, 451 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: or welcoming a child in your family is really like 452 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 3: a superhuman feat and I think that spills over into 453 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 3: other aspects of our lives. 454 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 4: And for me, I feel like becoming a mom having 455 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 4: kids really helped me put things into perspective. Yes, so 456 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 4: I think I used to get really anxious about little 457 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 4: minute shit work, or I would really worry about something 458 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 4: ahead of time, or I'd agonize about something after the fact. 459 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 4: But having kids and being a mom, it really just 460 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 4: helped me realize this is not that important. At the 461 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 4: end of the day, I'm going back at work again tomorrow, 462 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 4: and keeping this little human alive and happy is really 463 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 4: is really the most important thing. So I found it 464 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 4: very liberating personally to become a mom one hundred percent. 465 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 3: Thinking back to something that you said earlier, which are 466 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 3: those stories from older generations of women who remember working 467 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 3: in an environment where this scarcity mindset was really ever 468 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: present and feeling like there was only room for one 469 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 3: woman at the top. And I think we all collectively 470 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 3: feel like that is not the case anymore. So I'd 471 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 3: love to discuss how we actually can be supportive of 472 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: other women in the workplace, And one of your negotiating 473 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 3: tips is to imagine that we're advocating a salary or 474 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 3: pay on behalf of a friend. Oh, I like that, 475 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 3: which is really powerful because sometimes we aren't great at 476 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 3: advocating for ourselves. 477 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 4: Yes, So what they found is that the strongest negotiators 478 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 4: are women, but negotiating on behalf of other people. There's 479 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 4: a stereotype that men are great at negotiating, But the 480 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 4: strongest negotiator is not a man negotiating on behalf of 481 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 4: himself or a man negotiating on behalf someone else. The 482 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 4: strongest negotiators of women negotiating on behalf of someone else. 483 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 4: So that's great news. It means that women have negotiating skills. 484 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 4: It means that they're afraid to unleash them on behalf 485 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 4: of themselves because they think it would be greedy or rude. 486 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: And so just knowing that you have that ability, it 487 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 4: also is why women should coach each other and push 488 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 4: each other and practice negotiating. Practice that conversation with your boss, 489 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 4: brainstorm about it. 490 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 3: Are there any other ways that we can advocate for 491 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 3: each other in the workplace. 492 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 4: The more women are an environment where they're in the minority, 493 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 4: or the more you're in any situation where you're part 494 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 4: of a minority group, it's really important to have a 495 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 4: context where you could surround yourself with other people like you. 496 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: If you're in a. 497 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 4: Company that's eighty percent men and twenty percent women, or 498 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 4: ninety percent people who are white and ten percent people 499 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 4: of color, if you're in that minority group, you're going 500 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 4: to inherently feel like I either don't belong here or 501 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 4: wonder how I'm supposed to navigate being here. And there's 502 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 4: actual research showing that it is valuable to be around 503 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 4: other people like yourself, and so that's the value of 504 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 4: micro environments. But at the same time, you need to 505 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 4: have a bridge into the rest of the culture, and 506 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 4: that's why I think it's so important that you have 507 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 4: people who are like men should mentor women. I don't 508 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 4: think that women should only seek out female mentors because 509 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 4: there aren't enough senior women to go around. But I also 510 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 4: think that sort of ties back to this conversation earlier 511 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 4: about making sure you have your own personal and board 512 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 4: of advisors to give you help. And I think that 513 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 4: in navigating our workplaces, whatever it is, some of the 514 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: best advice may come from someone in a totally different field, 515 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 4: from a friend who doesn't work. Some of my best 516 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 4: advices come from my friends who are stay at home moms, 517 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 4: and they say, I remember this, or this reminds me 518 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 4: of a situation, and even though they had a very 519 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 4: different context than what the life is that I'm living 520 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 4: at work, they had great advice. So I just feel 521 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 4: like knowing that your support system and your advice could 522 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 4: come from unexpected places is really important, and also helping 523 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 4: you hold your friends accountable. 524 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: Julia, you wrote this book two years ago now, which 525 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: is wild. Is there any new research that's come out 526 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: since then that you wish you could include in the 527 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: book if it were being published today, would you add anything? 528 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 4: Well, it's obviously we're at a turning point right now 529 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 4: because we have the second female candidate for president, which 530 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 4: to me is almost more important from a sort of 531 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 4: contextual standpoint, because there was so much focus on Hillary 532 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 4: Clinton as the first female presidential candidate. Now you really 533 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 4: see Kamala Harris trying not to make that part of 534 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 4: the conversation. Obviously, we're very aware that she would the 535 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 4: first if she were to be elected in the second 536 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 4: to be the candidate. But I think that what we're 537 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 4: seeing right now is this question of like, when can 538 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 4: we get to a place of normalcy of seeing a 539 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 4: woman who's running to be president not have it be 540 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 4: such an unusual thing anymore. 541 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I just thought of one last question 542 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: for you. What is the best way to sign off 543 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 3: an email? 544 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 4: Oh? Man, I'm a thanks person. 545 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 2: You're a thanks person. 546 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 4: Okay, I'm a thanks thanks. I also use a lot 547 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 4: of exclamation marks, which people find sometimes confusing. But I 548 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 4: love a good exclamation mark. 549 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: I love the intonation in which you said thanks, thanks, thanks. 550 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 3: I'm a best kind of girl, your best most of 551 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: the time, I'm the best. If I have an affinity 552 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: towards the person, it'll be a warmly formally, it'll be 553 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 3: a warmly. 554 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 1: Interesting how about you. I do a slower case X 555 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: and then just my name, okay, or it's really yeah, 556 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: it's really personal. 557 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: I like that. 558 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 559 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 2: Sometimes a little too personal. 560 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: I think like I'm emailing people and it's like, why 561 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 1: are you hugging and kissing me via this email? 562 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: But who I am? Julia? 563 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today and for 564 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: your insights in your heart. 565 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 4: It was really my pleasure. Thank you. 566 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 3: Julia Borston is CNBC's senior media and Tech correspondent and 567 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: the author of When Women Lead, What they achieve, why 568 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 3: they succeed, and how we can learn from them. 569 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: That's it for today's show. 570 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: Tomorrow, we're back with another edition of Wellness Wednesday. 571 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: You don't want to miss it. 572 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 573 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 574 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boyce. You can find me at Simone Voice 575 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok. 576 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. 577 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: That's ro b a Y. We'll see you tomorrow. Keep 578 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: looking on the bright side.