1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: I'm very pleased today to be joined by James Moore, 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: a former member of the Canadian Parliament, a good friend 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: of mine. We're going to talk about the bilateral relationship. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Canadian politics, and we're going 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: to talk about our shared North American history, our culture, 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: the differences in the country and what binds us together. James, welcome, 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: gonna be with you. 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: Steve. 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: You live in the great city of Vancouver, which I 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: think is the most beautiful city on the on the 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: North American continent. Uh. You've served as a senior minister 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: in the in the Canadian government, in government as a 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: member of Parliament. This is a mostly American audience, but 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: not universally. Talk about Canada. What makes Canada unique and 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: special amongst the English speaking countries. It wasn't supposed to work, 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Probably the fact that it's not an English speaking country 17 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: but is viewed by the other English speaking countries as 18 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: such because of its Commonwealth affiliation. 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: Canada is the country is not supposed to work. You 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: are the second largest country in size, the thirty seventh 21 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: largest in population. We're born out of divisions Indigenous Canadians 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: versus the English versus French. We have linguistic barriers across 23 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: the country. So you have this massive continental footprint with 24 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: a thin population, eighty percent of whom live within a 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: two hour border with the United States. Our relations with 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: the United States are enormously economically and culturally important. We've 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: had two referendums on Quebec sovereignty and separation. Of course, 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: we've gone through world wars, We've gone through all kinds 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: of crises and political ones as well, scandals as bad 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: as the worst of the America have ever seen. So 31 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: we've had a lot of stresses and stress tests on 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: the fact of Canada, and yet we've endured. You know, 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 2: there's a parallel narrative there with the United States as well, 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: But in Canada, you know, it is true. We're less jingoistic, 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: so we expect more practicality from government. Ideology isn't and 36 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 2: we don't dump as much of our identity and sense 37 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: of self worth, sense of community into government. Because for 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: where I am in Vancouver, Attawa's a very far off place. 39 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: It's not wouldn't be very different from somebody in Bend, 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: Oregon looking at Washington, d C. And saying, well, what 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: happens there doesn't really matter. But there's a dissociation here, 42 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: and a lot of our identity and sense of purpose 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: and sense of community and sense of justice is not 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: invested in politics as much, it seems to me, as 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: a degree it is in the United States. We're a 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: proud country, you know. We we think that we're more 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: important in the world than we are. I think part 48 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: of that is because we get sort of drawn into 49 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: the narrative in the language and the vocabulary of American 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: politics and all that. Being on the right side of 51 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: history and some of the big fights Second World War, 52 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: Cold War, the war against terrorism that gives us a 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: sense of righteousness that I think has earned it, but 54 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: I think could sometimes be overstated in our posture around 55 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: the world. You see that with Justin Trudeau getting over 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: skis a little bit and being a little bit luxury 57 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: is certainly from the left. But we were a country 58 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: that also has our challenges, right, I mean the urbanization 59 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: of Canada. You know, the cost of living in Canada 60 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: is is sky high. Vancouver is and one of the 61 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 2: most expensive cities in the world. We have tensions indigenous 62 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: and non we have you know, you know more, Canada 63 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: is a population of forty million last year alone. We 64 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: drew in Now there was a there was a backlog 65 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: because of COVID, but had a million new Canadians where 66 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: it became Canadian citizens last year. So there's those tensions 67 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: of new Canadians coming in, economic, social, cultural. So we're 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: a country that is that is struggling, fighting doing well, 69 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: but we have our challenges. 70 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: What is the role of the United States with regard 71 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: to this issue, given the historic tizes, the closeness of 72 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: the mill Tarry allianced in Canada standing as a Five 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: Eyes partner in a NATO member. 74 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: So I was a member of parliament. I remember I 75 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: was home on nine to eleven when that happened. And 76 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: there was a spook that happened in Canada, not just 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: on the substance of that day and in the policy 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: in the long term fallout of that event, but from 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: that moment forward, all Canadians were became very anxious, particularly 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: those of US in government, about any attack on the 81 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 2: United States that was born in Canada. A sleeper cell 82 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: an errant ne'er do well who crossed the border, who 83 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: demonstrated that in some way that the Canada US border 84 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: was ineffective in protecting Americans from American interests and from 85 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: outside threats. So that threat and any incoherence in competence 86 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: in the Canadian side of the border that leads to 87 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: the loss of American life. In a time of economic nationalism, 88 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: nationalism broadly sort of you know, ethnic nationalism, you know 89 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 2: in the blood and soil parts of the Trump movement, 90 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: any opportunity to sort of push away and to block 91 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: the Canada US relationship and to close border would be 92 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: devastating for Canada. About one in five Canadian jobs is 93 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: dependent on trade with the United States. It's the most 94 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: prosperous relationship in the history of the world. We do 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: about two thirds of a trillion dollars in two way 96 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: trade every year. I mean, what's one of the most successful. 97 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: It is the most successful economic partnership in the history 98 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 2: of the world. And if you had any kind of 99 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 2: attack in Canada that was a consequence of Canadian government 100 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 2: and competence that led to a death of an American, 101 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: the ability to weaponize that and to use that to 102 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: thicken the border between Canada the United States would be 103 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: economically detrimental to both of US, but particularly for Canada. 104 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: So these incidents on their own are problematic, but in 105 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: terms of what it means for the broader relationship and 106 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 2: the security that we can feel as partners and neighbors, 107 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: that would have a very long and devastating consequence if 108 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: it went, if it went badly. 109 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: Is justin Trudeau in his last term. 110 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: Probably whether he knows it or not. You know the 111 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 2: history of Canadian prime ministers, We've had, you know, lots 112 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: of prime ministers in Canadian history, but he is deep 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: on the back nine of his time as prime minister. 114 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: He was elected with the majority in twenty fifteen, minority 115 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: government in two and nineteen, a minority government again in 116 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one when he thought he would win because 117 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: the Conservative Party was disorganized and not quite prepared for 118 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: that campaign. In politics, you know, as you know, you 119 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: start with a lot of friends and you tend to 120 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: lose them over time. The degree to which that slope 121 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: is straight south depends on your behavior and the way 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 2: which you carry yourself. He's lost a lot of friends 123 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: pretty fast. You know, he is deeply unpopular. He's probably 124 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: the most unpopular. I would say his unpopular in Canada 125 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: now would probably be comparable to the unpopularity of George W. 126 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: Bush and towards the end of his campaign or the 127 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: end of his time in his second mandate, it's almost 128 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: that hot. There's not unissue like Iraq, there's not an 129 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 2: issue like in like that in Canada. But it's just 130 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: people are just tired of him, tired of being lectured, 131 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: tired of the elitism. They look around and they see, 132 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: you know, divisions with India, divisions with China, tensions with 133 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: the United States, whether it's with President Trump overall, you 134 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: know those tensions or even with President Biden over the 135 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: inflation reduction active what that means for Canada. We see 136 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: your tensions with Europe, you see housing prices going up, 137 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: cost of gas going up, like everything just seems to 138 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: be not going right. And in Canada we have a 139 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: parliamentary system, but we have a presidential style of politics. 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: So so it is as you phrased it, it's the 141 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: Trudeau government. It'll be the you know, peer pauliev alternative, 142 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: It'll be That's how we phrase our politics. It's not 143 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: quite conservative liberal, even though people sort of identifying camps. 144 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: But you know, the candle that burns the brightest, burns 145 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: the fastest, and he's he's a super nova in terms 146 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: of his personality. You take in Justin Trudeau for about 147 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: five minutes and you kind of immediately have an opinion 148 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: of the guy. You don't you don't osolet you lock 149 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: in with you like what you see, you don't like 150 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: what you see, and the like what you see crowd 151 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 2: is getting smaller over time. 152 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Is they is? 153 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: They're presented with disappointment after disappointment relative to the hype 154 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: and expectation of him becoming prime minister. You know, he was, 155 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: he was hot stuff, he was a he's a good 156 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: looking guy, well spoken of a new generation. And then 157 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: as we've sort of seen, you know, in your third mandate, 158 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: you get nowt he's more than halfway now through his 159 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: third mandate as prime minister. You kind of look around, 160 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: you go wow. You talk about an over hypestock. And 161 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: that's just kind of a natural reflex that a lot 162 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: of swing voters are having about him. 163 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: Talk about Pierre Polyab, who is he? Is it fair 164 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: for him to be labeled as Canadian Trump the way 165 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: that Justin Trudeau and the party leadership is doing so. 166 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: People that I know who are very close to Justin 167 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: Trudeau said that if he was going to run for 168 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: a fourth term and if he's going to be successful 169 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: in that effort to try to hold onto power, three 170 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 2: things had to happen. Number One, Pierre Paulyev when he 171 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: took over the Conservative Party last year, he would have 172 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: to crash and burn on the runway. That hasn't happened. 173 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: When he took over leader the leader of the Conservative Party, 174 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: the Conservatives are about five points down, they're now fifteen 175 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 2: points up. Second, is they needed to have the economy 176 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: have a turnaround and not go into recession. Well, we 177 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: had a contraction in the second quarter of this year. 178 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 2: There's every reason to believe we're in a technical recession 179 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: right now and it's not like they're going to get 180 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: better before years in. So that's the third thing that 181 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: the Liberals need, Justin Trudeau needs for him to want 182 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: to run again, is that Donald Trump has to come back, 183 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: and Donald Trump has to come back with gusto and 184 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: with you know, the belligerent, crazy and the worst iterations 185 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: of Donald Trump, which is I can tell you as 186 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: toxic in Canada like it is. You know, he talked 187 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: about his unpopularity in Canada. Donald Trump's popularity is probably 188 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: you know, ninety five to five net negative like it is. 189 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 2: He is as toxic in Canada's as it can be. 190 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: And to try to tie here quolity to Donald Trump 191 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: is the last sort of thing that Justin Shrudeau has 192 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: and that that dog is not gonna haunt. It is 193 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: just not there. Canadian conservatism has always been very different 194 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: from American one. It's just like British Tories, Canadian Conservatives, 195 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 2: American Republicans. It's very different. Right. We align, I so 196 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 2: pose on a lot of broad themes about trust in 197 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: the private sector, belief in free markets, the responsibility of 198 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: families to take care of each other, the value in 199 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: virtue of community is the backbone of quality of life, 200 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: and the importance of protecting what it is that's most 201 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: sacred to us, which is our family and our kids 202 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: and our schools in our neighborhoods. Like that, that ethos 203 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 2: is all there, strong national security, strong strong justice policies. 204 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: But that's but when it comes down to the technical stuff. 205 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: Like Pierre Paul Yev, he is a perfectly bilingual Franco 206 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: file Canadian, which is said he's angle phone, but he's 207 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: French speaking from outside of the province of Quebec. He 208 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: is pro choice, pro game marriage, doesn't care who sleeps with, 209 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: who believes in lower taxes, smaller government, responsible, responsible use 210 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: of government power in a limited consequence. Now that that 211 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: is not a Donald Trump Republican like he is. Pierre 212 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 2: is clearly he's out there saying that he will march 213 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: in Pride parades. He has, he has been out there. 214 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: The deputy leader, the deputy leader of the Conservative Party 215 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: of Canada is a woman named Alyssa Lansman, who is 216 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: a married lesbian from Toronto. That's the deputy leader of 217 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 2: the party. I don't think he would get that in 218 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: a Marjorie Taylor Green party. I don't think he would 219 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: get that, you know, an Iran Paul party. But in 220 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: Canada it's very different. I mean, I was a Conservative 221 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: cabinet minister for Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who's seen as 222 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: probably the most small seat conservative prime minister in Canadian history. 223 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: And I voted in favor of gay marriage in two 224 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: thousand and five, you know, three years before Barack Obama 225 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: ran for president, saying he would never vote for gay marriage. 226 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: So that's the tilt of left right in Canada is 227 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: very different than is the United States. So Donald Trump 228 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 2: is toxic. Liberals will try to make Pierre Pauliev the 229 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: alternative prime Minister to Canada. They'll try to make him 230 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: Donald Trump light, but it's just very different. He doesn't 231 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: speak like Trump. He's talk like Trumpy. Pierre speaks into 232 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: very aspirational terms about empowering families, growing the economy. It's 233 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 2: a very positive message. I know, make America Great Again 234 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 2: was positive for some people who heard it a certain way, 235 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: but it was dog whistle for a lot of other people. 236 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: There's none of that with Pierre. He's a straight shooting 237 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: If you wanted an apples to apples comparison to what 238 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: you've seen in contemporary American politics, I would say he 239 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: would be kind of a Canadian version of sort of 240 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 2: peak Rand Paul, pre speaker, Rand Paul on the rise, Energetic, 241 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: you know, in shape, you know, reaching out to shake 242 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 2: hands with the voters, sort of jogging in the parade, 243 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: Enthusiastic to talk about public policy. Smart guy. That's that's 244 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: what Pier Paulie is. 245 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: When you when you think about this moment, do you 246 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: think that Canada has a higher immunity, a higher tolerant 247 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: to the type of demagoguery and popularism. We've seen break 248 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: out in the United States that it has a cultural 249 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: prophylactic if you if you will, that armors it a 250 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: bit more. 251 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: Yes, but it's fragile. It's there to it's there to 252 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: be exploited because the tensions do exist. So the number 253 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: one issue in Canada, it's been the case for about 254 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: six months now, is the rise and cost of housing. 255 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 2: Like the cost of owning the home in Canada is 256 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: almost completely out of reach for most Canadians. Like it's 257 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: ludicrous and for a whole bunch of reasons, but it 258 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: is what it is. So you have a million new 259 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: Canadians on a population bath to day for forty million 260 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: and million new Canadians come into the country in one year. 261 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: So you have this massive demand for housing, and so 262 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 2: that's right for exploitation. You have more people looking for housing. 263 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: Houses aren't being built, so you have Canadians who have 264 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: been here for generations not being able to buy homes. 265 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: The link and for exploitation for hardline populism is right there, 266 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: but nobody picks up the bat and swings it. It 267 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: just isn't done. It's not that somebody might not do it, 268 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: but it just isn't done, perhaps because Canada is so 269 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: diverse now that to do that would be sort of 270 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: politically suicide because you know other other Canadians, whether you're Chinese, Canadian, Japanese, 271 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: South Asian, Filipino, whatever, that you would say, well, if that, 272 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 2: if the majority is going to go after that minority, 273 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: we could be next. And there's kind of the solidarity 274 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: of people who are new to Canada against the exploitation 275 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: of other new Canadians. That's kind of a pressure valve 276 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: against it, but in some ways it also blocks off 277 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: important conversations about that stress that doesn't exist. You should 278 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: know as well that since Stephen Harper was defeated in 279 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, there was a Conservative leadership race in twenty 280 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: eighteen or twenty seventeen, there's a second Conservative leadership race 281 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: going into the twenty one campaign, and then there was 282 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: the Conservaive leadership race that resulted in Pierre Paul Up. 283 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: Those three leadership races combined, there were i would say 284 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: about thirty or thirty two people ran for the leaders 285 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: of the Conservative Party of Canada. Not one out of 286 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: thirty plus people who ran in those three cycles, not 287 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: one person ran for the leader saying if you like 288 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, you'll love me, and parroted Donald Trump. Not 289 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: one person did that. Is that does not fly in Canada. 290 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: US against them, banning Muslims, making fun of a disabled reporter, 291 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: ostracizing the other, talking down, you know, belittling stuff that 292 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: does not fly in Canada. There's no interest in that, 293 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: even within a diminished Conservative Party on its back legs 294 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: deep in the wood in opposition against a liberal majority 295 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 2: government period and justin Trudeau on the March, even when 296 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: a party is shrunken and broken and depressed and trying 297 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: to find its soul. Even in that rubric, a guy 298 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: like Donald Trump had no purchase in the Conservative Party. 299 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: Nobody even tried to pairrot him because it was just 300 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: there was no interest in it. So to a lot 301 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: of people who try to make Pierre that guy, it's 302 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: not going to work. People who try to dial up 303 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: that politics in Canada, it's not going to work. There's 304 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: a People's Party that still exists that has tried now 305 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: for two elections to elect people kind of on us 306 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: soft Trump mandate. It's sort of more of a libertarian 307 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: populism type thing of Maxime Bernier as the leader. You know, 308 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: he has failed now I think four times five times 309 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: in a row to get a seat. There's no interest 310 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: in that stuff in Canada. 311 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: Why. 312 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: I think it's the diversity of Canada's there. I think 313 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: there's a temperament in Canada and also in Canada, like 314 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: in the United States. And as you know this very well, right, 315 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 2: there's you have three co equal branches of government Washington, 316 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: d C. The US Capitol Building sits symbolically in the 317 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: physical center of Washington, d You see as a demonstration 318 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: that the Article one of the Constitution is Congress. Article 319 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: three is the President of the United States. And so 320 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: there's this tension in this push and pull. So because 321 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: there's this actually this balance of power and check and 322 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: balance in the United States, that you can go hard 323 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: and you can elect a demagogue like Donald Trump who 324 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: will beat drums and tell the proud boys to stand 325 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: ready and stand by and say things that he did 326 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: about immigrants and Muslims and Mexicans and shithole countries. He 327 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: can see he can get away with some of that 328 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: stuff because you kind of know instinctively that there's going 329 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: to be a counterbalance, you hope in the Congress and 330 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: the counterbalance in the Senate, and then they'll be the 331 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: Supreme Court, and then they'll be the States, and then 332 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: of course there's the Bill of Rights. So I mean, 333 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 2: you have these counterbalancing pressures. In Canada, there's counterbalances, but 334 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: it's not as hard as that. In Canada. If you're 335 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: elected the Prime Minister of Canada and you have a 336 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: majority government, you control everything you control. And so the 337 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: idea of electing somebody into that office who is unhinged, 338 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: or is on an ideological vendor, or is disruptive and 339 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: will divide the country against itself in order to lead 340 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: the bigger mass of people that they can animate. People 341 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 2: see the inherent risk in that because they know that 342 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: if you're on the winning side of that, that that 343 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: pendulum will come back the other way, and then eventually 344 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: that pendulum becomes a wrecking ball against the soul of 345 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: the country, and that's not sustainable. And people have an 346 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: instinct to just I don't like that. I want my 347 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: side to win, but I don't want to. I don't 348 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: want to blow up my neighbor. I don't want to 349 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: I don't want to destroy you know. I don't want 350 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: to go to a Pta meeting with my son and 351 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 2: not be able to even make eye contact with somebody 352 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 2: across the room because they saw my party's laun sign 353 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 2: on my lawn. People are very instinctive against that because 354 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: the power that's vested in the office the Prime Minister 355 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: of Canada is extraordinary and and and it's it's it's 356 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: it's very very much recognized by most Canadians that you 357 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: trust that power with somebody who's who's who's thoughtful with it, 358 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: and whose temperament, whose temperament is appropriately moderate. 359 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: I think for the Americans watching what you said about 360 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: the American system, presidency is the Article two branch, the 361 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: Supreme Court Article three, but the Article one branch. The 362 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: capital is the center of American life. There is this 363 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: moment in American history where George Washington, who could have 364 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: been a king, this picture, this painting, hangs in the Capitol. 365 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: The throne chair is unoccupied. He's draped his military cloak 366 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: over it. He won't be a caesar, and he bows 367 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: and subordinates himself to Congress as he resigns his commission. 368 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: And one of the facets the differences in the country 369 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: culturally that I always think is interesting. On the periphery 370 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: and was reminded of in Prince Edward County in Toronto 371 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: last weekend, coming up the Loyalist Parkway, and you're on 372 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: the Loyalist Parkway and it was dedicated by the Queen 373 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, and you and you read the 374 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: history of it, and this was the root that the 375 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: Pioneers came into Prince Edward County in the summer of 376 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty four fleeing the new United States. They were 377 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: loyal to the king. And all these years later, many 378 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: Americans don't appreciate this. But when Charles the Third succeeded 379 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: his mother, among his realms is Canada. He is the 380 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: King of Canada. 381 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 2: He is he is our king. But you know there's 382 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 2: the King's representative of to Canada, our governor General. But 383 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: you know that there's another part of that relationship. Now, 384 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: of course, one in four Canadians lives in the province 385 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: of Quebec, and their relationship with Westminster in the Crown 386 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 2: or not Westminster, with Buckingham Palace and the Crown is 387 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: is very different, of course than the rest of the country. 388 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 2: So we are a commonwealth country with the I think 389 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: the only country in the world that is a member 390 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: the Commonwealth, but we're also a member of the Thankofy. 391 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: So we are a diverse country from our founding through 392 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: until today. And so those tensions and those balances, but 393 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 2: from our founding of trying to balance French and English, 394 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 2: Protestant and Catholic in the early days as well, which 395 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: is also sort of code for French and English, and 396 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 2: in a lot of parts of the country, as well 397 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 2: as the indigenous dynamic, you know, from the very beginning, 398 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: trying to balance these tensions and helping folks get along 399 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 2: and making accommodations for each other. From you know, from 400 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: the third quarter of the nineteenth century all the way 401 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 2: through until until today. Modern Canada has served not only 402 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: English and French speaking Canadians and indigenous Canadians I think 403 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 2: for the most part, but also for as we adopt 404 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: and diversify and bring in folks from other parts of 405 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: the world. So it's served us well. There's also I 406 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: think a thing. I mean, I'm not a I'm not 407 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 2: a strong monarchist in a lot of ways, but there's 408 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 2: there's a there's a there's a virtue thing about it, 409 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: which is that the royal family is a family, and 410 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: so to have a family as the head of your 411 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 2: you know, the head of state is is something that 412 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: is There's there's kind of a virtue in that that 413 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the family is an anchor, 414 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: an anchor institution that doesn't go away, can never give 415 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: up on each other, will always be supportive of each other, 416 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 2: will always have each other's back, and there's a there's 417 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 2: sort of a virtue in that that's sort of unspoken 418 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people have a little 419 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 2: bit of a romantic notion about that. You know, politics 420 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: can come and go, Tensions can come and go, strife 421 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: can come and go, crises can come and go. But 422 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: at core and at the backbone, we're a family. And 423 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: the family never gives up on itself and never gives 424 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 2: up on each other, and we always have each other's back. 425 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,239 Speaker 2: And so that's that there's kind of a strain of 426 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: that that exists in the Commonwealth sentiment amongst nations. 427 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: Is the monarchy important in Canada today. 428 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: Not explicitly, not on a day to day basis. It's 429 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 2: not as though you know, in the nightly news it's 430 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 2: you know, here's what happened in politics, here's what's happening 431 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: in the markets. You know, Here's what's happening with our 432 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: hockey teams. By the way, here's what here's the latest. 433 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: You know, missive about a Buckingham palaceis it's not like that, 434 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: you know, we don't we don't obsess on the megan 435 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: market side of things. But but you know, but when 436 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 2: there's a royal visit, it matters. It matters to communities 437 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 2: and it matters to you know, the people who are 438 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 2: who are sort of of the generation who is sort 439 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: of more connected with Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth than they 440 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 2: are perhaps with Charles. But it matters. So we we 441 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 2: we keep an eye on what's happening in the UK. 442 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: Brexit matter to Canada a lot as well. Our fifth 443 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 2: largest trading partner is the UK. So the economic relationship, 444 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: the historic relationship the crown matters, but not nearly as 445 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: much as who the Prime Minister is, because the Crown 446 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: is never, i think, not in my lifetime, has ever 447 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: in any way flexed or threatened to flex or or 448 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: to do anything that would in any way impede the 449 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 2: independent operating of operation of the Government of Canada. 450 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: I want to come back to the organization of Canadian 451 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: Society because I think this is interesting and it's visibly 452 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: evident if you land in a Canadian airport and you 453 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: go through a customs line. Forty million people, one million 454 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: people were admitted into Canada in a calendar year. That's 455 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: an extraordinary amount of people. How many will come this year. 456 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 2: Unknown because part of the million was a COVID backlog 457 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: that built up and brought in. But there's a goal 458 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: and every year the Government of Canada, all governments, whether 459 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: it's conservati or Liberal, they actually have to post what 460 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: their goal is for a population growth. And it used 461 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 2: to be a big deal if you made two hundred 462 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand new Canadians per year. The goal is 463 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: sort of crept up over time. When we were in 464 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: government was four hundred thousand. I think it'll probably settle 465 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 2: in the four hundred to five hundred thousand per year 466 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: growth over time. I mean, we're well on our track 467 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: to be a a population of about seventy five million 468 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: people by twenty fifty, so that's, you know, more than 469 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: tripling the size of the country that exists that when 470 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 2: I was born and I'm forty seven, so like it. 471 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: It's an exponential growth. Most of it. Most of those 472 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: New Canadians reside in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, urban centers 473 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: of the country. Calgaries growing as well, so they become 474 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: urbanized and all that. But the Balkanization does and can happen. 475 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: You know, you have large South Asian invent the Vancouver area, 476 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: large South Asian community in Surrey, you know, Asian mandar 477 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: in New Cantonese speaking down in Richmond, and that can 478 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: create some tensions locally as well. So the absorption of 479 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: New Canadians is by most Canadians is seen as a 480 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: shot in the arm of adrenaline, of economic growth, people 481 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: bringing in capital bringing, people bringing in talents. It's not 482 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: just family reunification for its own sake, but people coming 483 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: here with skills and capacities, investment dollars and brain power 484 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 2: to invest into the Canadian family. So it's welcome that way. 485 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 2: But it's interesting that you know, to your point though, 486 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: is that with that spike and that consistent trend up 487 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 2: of New Canadians, there is not a political party that 488 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 2: has risen up to say this is too much. Gosh, 489 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: we've got to close the door, We've got to turn 490 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: it back. We've got to shut it down. We need 491 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 2: to you know, in the path you can in language 492 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: of ninety two ninety six of saying we need to 493 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: time out on immigration. We need to stop this because 494 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 2: it's there. They're you know, they're over they're you know, 495 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: stressing our schools and overpopulating the emergency rooms and all that. 496 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: Some people whisper about, you know, can we absorb this? 497 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 2: This is it good? You know, we're not building enough 498 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: houses for this. Therefore we have you know, a price 499 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: inflation on housing that's disproportionate to income because we have 500 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: too many people coming in we can't build the houses. 501 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: So there are tensions there, but it never really tips 502 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 2: over at all into a racial component or a blood 503 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: and soil conversation or US versus them, And you don't 504 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 2: see the dog whistle politics, and that you do see 505 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: frankly in parts of the United States where there's an 506 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: exploitative nature about it. You know, racial tensions exist, racists exist, 507 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: intolerance exists, but for that to be seen as an 508 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 2: opportunity politically, nobody does that. It just doesn't happen. It's 509 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: it's pushed back against and rejected as soon as anybody 510 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: even thinks of going down that road. I think too. 511 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: By the way, a big difference in American and Canadian 512 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: politics is that in America, because you have the open 513 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: primary system, you declare yourself a Republican. You declare yourself 514 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: a Democrat as a citizen if you want to or 515 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: an independent if you want to participate in primaries. In 516 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: different states they have different rules. But in Canada, political 517 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: parties are close chops. You pay money. You have to 518 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 2: be a you don't have to be a citizen, but 519 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 2: you pay money to join the political party. You have 520 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 2: to be a citizen to run for office, of course, 521 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 2: but you have to join the party. But if you're 522 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: a member of the party, just a rank and foul member, 523 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 2: you put down your twenty bucks, you join the party. 524 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, you go to your Facebook 525 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: page and you put up a bunch of intolerant, racist, 526 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 2: homophobic or bigoted stuff against any group. The political party 527 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: will turn on and say, no, no, your membership is canceled. 528 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: You're out of here. When you are not, you're not 529 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: welcome in our club. You're not welcome in our group 530 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 2: because even you, as a member not interested. And so 531 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 2: that's why you have you know, in January sixth, they're 532 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: in Charlottesville. You have people who are you know, the 533 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: county chair of whatever member or whatever branch of the 534 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: Republican Party showing up in marching with these with these 535 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: you know, weirdos, and then that gets it creates a 536 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 2: brand identity, it gets infected up into the party. Whereas 537 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: in Canada, the leader of the party can throw you 538 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: out of caucus, throw you out of the elected caucus, 539 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 2: and so you have to be forced to sit as 540 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: an independent. The party itself can throw people out of 541 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 2: the party if they're expressing crazy and bizarre views on 542 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: social media. So there's a there's a there's a a 543 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: check mechanism of accountability and all that where the public 544 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: will say, if you want to govern my country, you 545 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 2: govern yourselves and show me what you've got. You've got 546 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: this guy over here, that person gets exposed, they get 547 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: thrown out, and so it creates demarcation lines of expectations 548 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: and values that the public can very quickly audit. 549 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: When how is Canada doing with regard to when we 550 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: were kids would have been called the melting pot. The 551 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: concept of assimilation that no matter where you come from, 552 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: that there is now a higher identity binds you to 553 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: everybody around you together, rooted to the place you're standing, 554 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: which is Canada. Right when you arrive, you're on the 555 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: beginning of this journey to become a Canadian. How is 556 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: Canada doing explaining to its new arrives what it means 557 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: to be a Canadian, helping them with that journey. 558 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 2: It's a needle that moves and we had a lot 559 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 2: of debate about this when Stephen Harper's Prime Minister. Your 560 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: first question of how are we doing with this sort 561 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 2: of influx of diversity. I think we're doing very well. 562 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: As I said, you don't see whether it's on the 563 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: municipal level, provincial level, of federal level. You don't see 564 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: an organized political party. You don't see some flamboyant or 565 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: articulate personality trying to exploit divisions in Canada. It doesn't exist. 566 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: So you know, politics is a reflection of society, not 567 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 2: the other way around. If there's a market for that 568 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, it'll show up. There isn't a market 569 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 2: for and I think, and as I said earlier, it 570 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: is because I think if you're a new Canadian, you're 571 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: an ethnic minority. You judge how you judge the system 572 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: by how it treat treats others, and therefore you can 573 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 2: assume that the worst of what others are facing is 574 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: what you might face, and so you create those tensions exist. 575 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 2: So I think we've done a good job of sort 576 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: of blowing through that. I think most people who come 577 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: to Canada do have, I think a lot of understanding 578 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: expectations of the Canadian system. Voter participation, by the way, 579 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: amongst New Canadians, it is higher than it is amongst 580 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 2: the second, third, and fourth generation of Canadians. People who 581 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: come to Canada want to participate in our democracy, and 582 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: they do. A lot of people who are landed but 583 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: they're not yet Canadian citizens, so they can vote in 584 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: nominations which are primaries but we call them nominations for candidates, 585 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: and vote for leaders of the party. They get involved 586 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: in party politics before they can vote in the general 587 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 2: election campaign. When I was a candidate, you know, I 588 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 2: had a lot of people who are volunteered to my campaign. 589 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 2: They said, well, we can't vote in the election, but 590 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: I sure want you to win. You know, Let's go 591 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: out and do some door knocking and hammer up some 592 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 2: signs and meet some neighbors and talk to some people 593 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: because you know, I can't vote, but it matters to me. 594 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: And so that spirit of immigration inflow, sort of contributing 595 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: to the Canadian democracy into the Canadian family is very common, 596 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 2: and it crosses, by the way, whether you're Chinese, Canadian, 597 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 2: where you're from, Hong Kong, Philippines, Vietnam, Europe, wherever you're from. 598 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: Canada is a very diverse and welcoming country. And it's 599 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: also growing. This where where I'm sitting right now, which 600 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: would have been my district when I was first elected 601 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: back in twentys, twenty three years ago, this area was 602 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: eighty percent Caucasian. Now it's about two thirds visible minority. 603 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: Like the diversity is growing and changing constantly. I look 604 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: at my son's classroom. My son is ten turning eleven 605 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks. You know, his classroom is 606 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: as diverse as the community is. But I think it's 607 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: important as well that not only that you welcome the diversity, 608 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: but you host the diversity. And I think one of 609 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 2: the things we've noticed as well is that you have 610 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: to have diversity of housing stock. If you just have 611 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: big mansions and middle class homes where we live. We 612 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: have higher and condos and townhouses and duplexes and detached homes, 613 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 2: and so economic diversity also feeds ethnic diversity as well, 614 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 2: and we think it's good, it's healthy. I mean, I 615 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,239 Speaker 2: understand the instinct of a lot of people to want 616 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: to feel more who might feel discomfort with the classroom 617 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: where not everybody in the classroom speaks perfectly English and 618 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: can be friends with your kids, but over time, that's 619 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: the world that they're going to go into. And so 620 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: to have a classroom that's diverse, where kids get to 621 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: see other people of other differences, I think is a 622 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: healthy thing. And it's by the way, it's not just ethnicity, right, 623 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: Like my son has physical disabilities, and so to be 624 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: with other kids who have disabilities is important. To have 625 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 2: kids in the classroom who are on the spectrum is important. 626 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: And you know, you know of from private schools or 627 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: charter schools kind of isolate kids from people of different 628 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 2: ethnic backgrounds or religious, religious teachings and physical differences. I 629 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: think the more you break down those barriers, the more 630 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: that we create a better bond between citizens and you 631 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: create a better world through healthy citizenship. 632 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: How worried are you about the United States. 633 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: At times quite worried, you know, in my time, and 634 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: like you in politics, right, like I want my team 635 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: to win and I don't, and I don't want the 636 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 2: other the other side. But I always want the country 637 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 2: to succeed. Never in my life, and again I'm forty seven. 638 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 2: Never in my life, and I'm not even an American. 639 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: Have has there been a politician where I just my 640 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: blood boils when I see them on television. That was 641 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, As I said, I have a son with disabilities. 642 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: And for me, the breakaway like when he when he 643 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: launched his campaign for president, you know, and he said, 644 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna we're gonna stop Muslims from coming 645 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 2: into the United States. I thought, well, that's it. He's 646 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 2: he's done that. That goes against all conventions and all everything. 647 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: So he's it's over. And then when he mocked the 648 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: New York Times reporter and his disabilities, for me became personally, 649 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: I thought, oh really. And then when, of course, when 650 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 2: he won the presidency, I thought to myself, one day, 651 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 2: my son is going to say, how the hell did 652 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: he say that? And then he became president, like people did, 653 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 2: he made fun of people who have disabilities, like and 654 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: he won, he became after that, he won, but like, 655 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: what is that? How do you explain that? And so 656 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: so for me, you know, it was a bit personal. 657 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: And so when America is divided against itself, that's very 658 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: dangerous for the world. You see a rise of a 659 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 2: belligerent and in imperial China in a lot of ways. 660 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: If you think about intellectual property, theft, the grabbing up 661 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: and the bribing away is the way to think about it. 662 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: The bribing away of raw materials and resources across Africa. 663 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: You see that imperial creep forward of China. You see 664 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: the belligerence of Russia. That doesn't happen in a world 665 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 2: where the United States is united and engaged and forward 666 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: leaning in the world. I understand, and the world does. 667 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 2: By the way, to say to all my American friends, 668 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: we and the rest of the world, we do understand. 669 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 2: The exhaustion of America after nine to eleven, and the 670 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 2: exhaustion of the Afghanistan War, the exhaustion of the Iraq War, 671 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: the exhaustion of what's been burdened on the United States 672 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 2: as a superpower in the expectation game. This spending on 673 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 2: military relative to your G seven and G twenty partners. 674 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: When a partners when it comes to military spend, I 675 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 2: recognize that, and I think the vast major of the 676 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 2: world recognizes the exhaustion and the burden that's been that 677 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 2: that has been shouldered in the United States. However, the 678 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 2: United States we're treating from the world is a dangerous 679 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: thing for not just the world, but for the United States. 680 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 2: What happens over there matters over here. When the rest 681 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 2: of the world goes sideways, eventually that will come to 682 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 2: America's short You cannot detach and just say we will 683 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: only focus on what we're doing. That's as absurd as 684 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: somebody in Vermont saying we will only focus on what 685 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 2: happens in Vermont, and it doesn't really matter what happens 686 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine. We were just going 687 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: to focus on Vermont issues in Vermont. That doesn't work. 688 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 2: It doesn't work within the United States, it doesn't work 689 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 2: in the rest of the world. And so, I you know, 690 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: to your question, am I worried about the United States? 691 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: I'm worried about the United States that becomes so internally divided, 692 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: so neighbor versus neighbor, that they can't that America can't 693 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: come together, and the rest of the world therefore takes 694 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 2: advantage of America's isolation. There's I'm a detachment from the world. 695 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 2: That is what I worry about. What happens when America 696 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 2: disengages because it's so internally divided. That makes the world 697 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 2: a very dangerous place. 698 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: I have a hypothetical question for you that I actually 699 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: see coming down the lane, and I'm wondering how you 700 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: think Canadian society reacts to this. Let's imagine this scenario 701 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: where Trump is re elected and he's been quite explicit, 702 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: and I have a policy which I'm quite clear about, 703 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: is I take everything that everybody says literally and seriously. 704 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: So when Donald Trump threatens to lock up political opponents, 705 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: shut down media companies, is talking to the chairman of 706 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: the Joint Chiefs of Staff about shooting people in the 707 00:35:53,600 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: leg I take all of this very seriously. What has 708 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: in Canada when the first prominent American ask for asylum 709 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: from a political prosecution from the Trump administration in Canada 710 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: with merit. 711 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,919 Speaker 2: That would be very interesting. I mean, obviously it would 712 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: depend on the instance. In the circumstance, there would not 713 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 2: likely be an agreement on the surface, but it would 714 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 2: depend on who's in government in Canada. In Canada, we're 715 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 2: not expected to have an election probably until twenty twenty five, 716 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 2: and I think Justin Trudeau, as I said earlier, one 717 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: of the it's sort of the Hail Mary pass of 718 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: what he is. He could if he decides he's going 719 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: to run again, he would be banking on Donald Trump 720 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 2: coming back, Donald Trump being crazy, Donald Trump being belligerent 721 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: and offensive, and therefore exploiting that in two thousand and 722 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: so when Donald Trump ran in twenty sixteen, Justin Trudeau 723 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: is the fresh new prime minister, and he too, We 724 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 2: just kind of stayed away from American politics, as we 725 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 2: instinctively do in the two thousand twenty campaign. You know, 726 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: we had just come out and we were just having 727 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 2: the ink dry on the new Canada US NAFTA agreement, 728 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 2: and so picking a fight with an incumbent president who 729 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 2: might beat Joe Biden's probably not great, especially also when 730 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 2: we're trying to get access to ppe and vaccines from 731 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 2: the United States like this was. This was a not 732 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: just an important economic relationship, but a life and death 733 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 2: relationship in Canada the United States. You probably don't want 734 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: to pick a fight with Donald Trump and exploit, you know, 735 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 2: the unpopularity of Donald Trump in Canada when the guy 736 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 2: could get reelected and block vaccines from coming into Canada. 737 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,479 Speaker 2: So it was a tactical thing. Gloves are off. Now 738 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: when you have Justin Chrudeau going for a fourth mandate, 739 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: he's desperate, he's way back in the polls to draw 740 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 2: and drag and to pick a fight with Donald Trump 741 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 2: so that he can get Pierre Paulyev to be aligned 742 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 2: with him. In a dynamic like that, I wouldn't be 743 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,959 Speaker 2: surprised if he would look for somebody who would try 744 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: to say that, you know, their human rights are being abused, 745 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: and then justintrure to welcome somebody into Canada, hold them 746 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: up as a sort of a poster child of how 747 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 2: compassionate he is versus Donald Trump. And of course that 748 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: would be you know, toxic for Canada and the Canada 749 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 2: US relationship. But for Justin Trudeau to stand power. There's 750 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 2: a further left wing party, the Socialist MDP. They would 751 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 2: love all this and so it. But again, all of 752 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 2: this is bad. All of it is bad because it 753 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: just spirals out of control. The Canada US relationship is 754 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 2: the most successful economic partnership and security relationship in the 755 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: history of the world. The platform, the North American platform 756 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 2: of job creation, wealth creation, the use of the effective 757 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 2: and integration of supply chains and resources for our prosperity 758 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: and benefit is unmatched in human history. And if it 759 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 2: breaks and cracks because Justin Trudeau was desperate for a 760 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 2: fourth term, or because Donald Trump wants to exploit a 761 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 2: minority community or stand in to power, because his psycho 762 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: psychopathy is such that he can't even imagine the world 763 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 2: a world without him, that he's not only narcissistic, but 764 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: nihilistic to that degree. And then you have Lopez overdoor 765 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 2: in Mexico, you know, welcoming in China and threatening the 766 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 2: now after relationship. If domestic politics and exploitation of division 767 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 2: and desperation to stay in power, whether it's Trump or 768 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 2: Trudeau or anybody else, gets to the point where they 769 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: crack this North American platform, which should be sacrosanct for 770 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 2: the well being of our continent and all of us, 771 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 2: then shame on all of us if we tolerate politicians 772 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 2: who do that. 773 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: Last question for you, because you have alluded to something 774 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 1: that is true but not talked about often enough. Justin 775 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: Trudeau wants Donald Trump back in the White House because 776 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: it's good too, because it's good for Justin Trudeau in 777 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: the same way that President Biden wants Trump is the 778 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: Republican nominee because they assess Trump incorrectly, I believe, as 779 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: an easy foe to be. So my question for you 780 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: is what is Trump? Is Trump a real threat or 781 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: is he just a great prop And when you look 782 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: at the American election ahead, how do you see it? 783 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: Is it an election between democracy and autocracy, which is 784 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: how I see it? Or is it an election between 785 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: the ambition of two guys and it basically hues to 786 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: align somewhere in the middle, on automatic pilot no matter what, 787 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: because I reject that worldview. I think it's well, I 788 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: think it's the former. I think it is. 789 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 2: It is a like elections are about choosing the values 790 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 2: that will that will, you know, forever stand the test 791 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 2: of time and demonstrate the modern era of fraternity. And 792 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 2: to tolerate that, you know, to tolerate Donald Trump as 793 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 2: present United States for everything that we've seen, after everything 794 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: that's gone through, after everything that's happened, the division that 795 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 2: the ugliness that just you go down there, you go 796 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole of all this stuff, and you 797 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 2: know you have so are so effectively for years now. 798 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 2: It's just to me, it's unimaginable. It's unimaginable. I don't 799 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 2: get it. You know. It's like I was in Cleveland 800 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen when Donald Trump won the nomination. I 801 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 2: was there doing political analysis for a Canadian television network, 802 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 2: and I just remember watching and I walking around the 803 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 2: concourse in the arena there in Cleveland and talking to 804 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 2: people with the red Maga hats on, and just so 805 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,919 Speaker 2: like like your own governor John Kasick is not even there, 806 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 2: Like like the Bushes and the mccains and the rod 807 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 2: like none of them are there. Like he's really gonna 808 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: build the wall, and like talking to people who believe 809 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 2: in this stuff, it was, as I say, it's like 810 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 2: talking to people who think professional wrestling is real. It's 811 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 2: like you do you not see the charade? Do you 812 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 2: not see that he's just a grifter, he's not a 813 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 2: successful businessman, he's gone bankrupt. Like there's nothing about this 814 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 2: guy that he's not about you. You know, you got 815 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 2: the Oliver Anthony song, right, Richmond north of Richmond, Who's 816 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Like the people who love that song or 817 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: what like this, it's all this bizarre charade of contradiction 818 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 2: and hypocrisy and ugliness and cruelty and ridiculousness and now 819 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 2: corruption with ninety one felony charges and four indictments in 820 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 2: four different jurisdictions. Like what, it's just bizarre world that 821 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 2: he's even contemplated as a credible candidate for president of 822 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 2: the United States. And so the game of chicken that 823 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 2: some people play of saying, well, Joe Biden, like as 824 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 2: you get into your sunset years, the escalation of the 825 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 2: of the health risks is ten x year by year, 826 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 2: like it gets more and more and more dangerous. And 827 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 2: you know, twenty twenty four and the aggressiveness of the 828 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: campaign that's starting now will go through for the next 829 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, for the next year is going to be 830 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 2: grueling and vicious and brutal. And Joe Biden and his presentation, 831 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 2: I think is such that it absolutely hastens the possibility 832 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump president of the United States again. And 833 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 2: I think the rest in Canada we just see this 834 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 2: as bizarre that these are the choices, these are the choices, 835 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 2: not that Joe Biden isn't a decent and honorable and 836 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 2: good man who's done a lot of things as president 837 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 2: that one can agree or disagree with. But it's just 838 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 2: this seniority grip that exists on American politics that you know, 839 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 2: how does New Gingrich become Speaker of the House because 840 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 2: he's from at that time one of the safest was 841 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 2: Georgia's fifth or sixth district, which at that time was 842 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 2: one of the reddest districts. So he just endures me. 843 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: He climbs up the ladder of leadership. And then you 844 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 2: have Nancy Pelici in San Francisco. So just that by 845 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 2: virtue of seniority and duration over time, you just kind 846 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 2: of spiral up the ladder of leadership and you take 847 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 2: over and you own these political parties Joe Biden and 848 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Now because the cult of Trump, it's just 849 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 2: kind of bizarre that this great democracy doesn't spit out 850 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 2: great democratic choices that you know, the churn is not 851 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 2: there of new talent coming in. It seems to happen 852 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 2: on the state, state level, seems to happen on the 853 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 2: city level, but the churn at the national level is 854 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be there in a way that gives 855 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 2: people a sense of fresh renewal on the national level, 856 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 2: and I think that's that's very disconcerting. 857 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: Perfect place to leave it, Minister James More, thank you, 858 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: thank you,