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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's your old pal me Josh, and I

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Speaker 1: am here to bring you today's s Y s K

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Speaker 1: Selects episode called How Patents Work. It sounds like it

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Speaker 1: will make your eyes bleed out of boredom, but do

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Speaker 1: not get it wrong. It's actually one of our most

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Speaker 1: interesting episodes ever. And it is seriously, sincerely, honestly everything

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Speaker 1: you could ever possibly want to know about patents. And

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Speaker 1: I would guess that we've never said the word patent

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Speaker 1: more than we do in this episode, So enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: It's from November of two thousand fourteen. Take a little

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Speaker 1: time to learn about patents. Welcome to Stuff you Should

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Speaker 1: Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,

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Speaker 1: and and this is stuff you should know. There's Jerry too.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Jerry, he's ready for January. Me, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're ready for a new year. I'm ready for this

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Speaker 1: year to be done. Yeah. I think it's been kind

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Speaker 1: of cool year. No, it's been fun. I'm just I'm tired.

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Speaker 1: I feel i'd be much more rested in it's October.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got a little ways to go, I know,

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Speaker 1: and this is my favorite month too. I'm just kind

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Speaker 1: of a drag so tired, you hippie, you're gonna start

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Speaker 1: saying far out next starting to it is far out,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck, Yes, I'm very curious. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: patents to your name? Now? Man, I'm not. I don't

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Speaker 1: have an inventive mind. I don't either. My brother does,

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Speaker 1: and he has had some good ideas that have later

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Speaker 1: been made into inventions. Why didn't he patent him? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Man. Every every time I see a new one,

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Speaker 1: I sent it to him, say hey, I remember when

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Speaker 1: he had this idea twelve years ago, Scott, Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? You know? Well, he's got a bunch

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Speaker 1: of pinball tables, so he's doing all right. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: own the patent on them though, Um no, but he could,

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Speaker 1: you know why, because it's America, that's right. So it

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Speaker 1: turns out, Chuck um and doing a little bit of research,

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Speaker 1: that there's mention of patents and patent protection in the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: not even the Bill of Rights. Freedom of speech isn't

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Speaker 1: even mentioned in the constitutions in the Bill of Rights,

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Speaker 1: but patent protection is in the Constitution Article one Section eight,

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Speaker 1: Clause eight, which is known as the Intellectual Property Clause,

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Speaker 1: and it says, quote, Congress shall have the power ellipse

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Speaker 1: to promote the progress of science and useful arts by securing,

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Speaker 1: for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right

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Speaker 1: to their respective writings and discoveries. And since this is

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Speaker 1: the late eighteenth century, a lot of that stuff was

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Speaker 1: just like randomly capitalized, like a sixth grader wrote it

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Speaker 1: something right, And my apologies to all of you six

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Speaker 1: great listeners out there who know your capitalization, like we

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Speaker 1: love proper now. So um, it's in the constitution. Like,

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Speaker 1: if you invent something that's new and novel and cool,

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Speaker 1: we think you should have some sort of government sanctioned

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Speaker 1: monopoly over that, at least for a limited amount of time.

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Speaker 1: You know why Why because very early on the United

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Speaker 1: States said we want to encourage uh inventiveness and forward thinking,

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneurship and great ideas. They were on board pretty early.

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Speaker 1: Even though it's a sort of a mess these days,

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about against the end, yea, we will, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, the whole point, the whole purpose of a

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Speaker 1: patent system, and apparently every it's one of the hallmarks

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Speaker 1: of the m of the modern society, I guess, is

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Speaker 1: to have a patent office. It says we value innovation,

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Speaker 1: we value technological progress, artistic progress, um. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to show a commitment to that by by basically saying

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Speaker 1: you you have again, I guess the best way to

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Speaker 1: put it as a monopoly on your invention for a

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Speaker 1: limited amount of time. And it hearkens back. Um. Apparently

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Speaker 1: the first patent was issued in fourteen forty nine in

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Speaker 1: jolly old England by King Henry the sixth, who gave

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Speaker 1: it to a guy who didn't even have a last name. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sure of Utnam is not a last name. That's where

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Speaker 1: you're from. Sounds like I'm Josh of Toledo. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying this medieval is not the sixteenth century. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: it's not so. John of Unham got a patent from

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Speaker 1: King Henry the sixth for stained glass manufacturing. Yeah, back

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Speaker 1: then patents in England were it was a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: It was more like, Hey, we want to protect the

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Speaker 1: crown and our country and our good friends and are

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Speaker 1: good good friends of the crown, and um make sure

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Speaker 1: that if they have an idea that we can go

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Speaker 1: after anyone else in any other country, even if it's

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Speaker 1: something like stained glass that's already clearly being done in

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Speaker 1: places like Italy. Right. It was basically like, you know, officially,

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Speaker 1: are the only person who can make stained glass. It

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a sham. Yeah, they would. They

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Speaker 1: would give out patents not just on an item or

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Speaker 1: an idea or an invention, but like a whole industry.

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Speaker 1: So like this, somebody held the patent on the publishing

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Speaker 1: industry for a while and apparently got out of hand

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Speaker 1: because it was just royal prerogative left and right. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it didn't last that long though. By the six four

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Speaker 1: they started to pass statutes and laws to try and

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Speaker 1: curb that abuse of power. Um, anyway they could and

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Speaker 1: make it a little more like the patent system that

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Speaker 1: we know and support today. Yeah, they were like, the

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Speaker 1: Crown can't give out patents unless it's for new invention. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that that is very similar to what we

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Speaker 1: have today. Um. So right off the bat, America's like

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Speaker 1: new country. We're setting up a patent office. Um. And

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Speaker 1: the first person to get a patent in the United

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Speaker 1: States was one Samuel Hopkins. Hopkins is the last name

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Speaker 1: not Samuel of Pittsburgh, Samuel Hopkins. Yeah, he got a

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Speaker 1: patent for UM an improvement in making in the making

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Speaker 1: of potash. Is that potash or potash? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I said it eight different ways in my head earlier.

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Speaker 1: Well one of those is right, yes, um. And so

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Speaker 1: he held the first patent. Actually, the person that reviewed

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Speaker 1: his patent was a man named Thomas Jefferson. Yeah. He

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Speaker 1: was big on innovation, as was Lincoln, and Lincoln is

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Speaker 1: the only president to actually hold a patent. UM. He

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Speaker 1: got a boat stuck one time in the river and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: that'd be neat if we could find a way to

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Speaker 1: not get boats stuck, right, So he devised the system

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Speaker 1: to unstick boats when they were stuck on a sandbar

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Speaker 1: for the river was too shallow or something. Yeah, by

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Speaker 1: inflating some booie's that would just basically let you float over.

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Speaker 1: And they were like, President Lincoln, that's a great idea,

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Speaker 1: here's your patents. Well he was a congressman at the time,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, he's the only president to hold a patent. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then Jefferson handled the application process for a while

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Speaker 1: before passing it off to UM. You know, other cabinet members.

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Speaker 1: And then eventually they're like, you know what, we this

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Speaker 1: is all out of hand. We need to establish our

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Speaker 1: own patent office and did so an eighteen o two. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think they grossly underestimated the number of patent applications

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Speaker 1: they were going to receive. People got their invention on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first patent um that Samuel Hopkins received, Um Jefferson examined,

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Speaker 1: he signed it, he gave it to the Secretary of War,

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Speaker 1: who signed it, who then pass it under the Attorney

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Speaker 1: General who signed it. And then President George Washington signed it.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't a sustainable process. And then chuck, there's

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Speaker 1: like tons of millions of patents. I think like five

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Speaker 1: point seven million patent tons of millions in them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: five point seven is a ton um. Anyway, there was

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Speaker 1: this notable one that I think is kind of hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Mark Twain, beloved American humorist. He invented. Who didn't like

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Speaker 1: Mark Twain, Man, there's a lot of twin haters. Well,

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Speaker 1: he invented the elastic brass strap. Yeah, uh, I wonder

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Speaker 1: why he he invented and improve it an adjustable and

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Speaker 1: detachable straps for garments, which he suggested could use for

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Speaker 1: pantaloons or vests or other garments. But basically, if you

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Speaker 1: look at it, you're like, that's a brass strap. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I bet that the old soft garter benefited from that idea,

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Speaker 1: I would guess so. And then one other things I wondered. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he also held two other patents, one for um a game. Hey,

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Speaker 1: he invented a game to help players remember important historical dates. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he ever saw a dime on that one,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. And then a self pasting scrap book, which

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be come huge until the nineties. Yeah. Self pasting

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Speaker 1: means I don't know, it's already sticky. Yeah, like the

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Speaker 1: photo albums you peel back the plastic and that that

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Speaker 1: sheet underneath is sticky uses static electricity. No, it's actually

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Speaker 1: sticky too, didn't it. I think it's static. It's sticky.

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Speaker 1: I think it's sticky. I haven't looked at a photo

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Speaker 1: of a minute. What, well, I have to I have

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Speaker 1: to go to uh, I don't know, the Hallmark store

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Speaker 1: and check on out soon. Let's do it. Well, we

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Speaker 1: were going anyway, so so I know the new Christmas

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Speaker 1: tournaments are uh so Chuck, let's talk patents, man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this I had this idea because I'm a big fan

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Speaker 1: of Shark Tank, the TV show, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of patent talk, and uh, I was watching it the

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Speaker 1: other day and they says, well, we have the utility patent,

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Speaker 1: but not the design patent. And I was like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta look this stuff up and see what all that means.

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Speaker 1: And um, well, we'll get to that in a second,

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Speaker 1: but let's start it out and we'll probably do shows

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Speaker 1: on maybe copyright and trademark at some point. Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: still they're worth mentioning here though. Yeah. Copyright, those are

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Speaker 1: all forms of intellectual protecting your intellectual property, and copyright

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Speaker 1: is the easiest and most broad and wide reaching and

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Speaker 1: longest lasting form because you can just write something and

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Speaker 1: it's yours automatically in the United States at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it lasts um for your lifetime plus seventy years.

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Speaker 1: Not bad, no, um, and literally once you, like Chuck,

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Speaker 1: if you write a short little story, you can write.

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Speaker 1: When you finish, you can write see put a circle

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Speaker 1: around it, Chuck Bryant, two thousand fourteen, and you have

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Speaker 1: your official copyright. That's right, Like that's it. Legally, you're

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Speaker 1: you're done just because you created a work of authorship.

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Speaker 1: And that's pretty great if you're a company and you've

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Speaker 1: done have a copyright as a company at last um

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Speaker 1: up to a hundred and twenty years, depending on whether

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Speaker 1: they publish it or not. Um. Yes, but that's uh.

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Speaker 1: Eventually it does run out, and then it can be

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Speaker 1: shared and other people can make money off of it,

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Speaker 1: like for example, old um HP Lovecraft stories. Like you

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Speaker 1: or I could take a bunch of love Craft stories

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Speaker 1: um and say we wrote them, type them, put them together,

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Speaker 1: and publish them and sell those books. Really like a

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Speaker 1: collection that you don't have to get any kind of

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Speaker 1: permission for that. Nope, it's in the public domain at

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Speaker 1: that pointlong to the world. That's right. Well, we read

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Speaker 1: every Halloween. We have to read something from the public domain,

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Speaker 1: I know, because it's really expensive to do otherwise it is.

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Speaker 1: Trademarks are a little bit different. They're a lot more

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Speaker 1: narrow and what they protect, and they protect designs and

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Speaker 1: phrases that businesses use or maybe trade secrets like a

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Speaker 1: formula for a soda are different. That's its own thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's still a trademark. Is it. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was separate from a trademark. M. I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: So with a trade says it's a trademark trade secret. Well,

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Speaker 1: with a trade secret, um, it's actually. Uh, it can

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Speaker 1: be beneficial to keep something under wraps as a trade

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Speaker 1: secret because if you have something that you patent, you're

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Speaker 1: protected for twenty years in the United States, your patent

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Speaker 1: is but part of the patent processes we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: is to publish it. You make it every detail of

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Speaker 1: it public. So then after twenty years, when your patent

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Speaker 1: runs out, anybody can go and look at your patent

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Speaker 1: and recreate it and not give you a cent for it.

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Speaker 1: If it's a trade secret, as long as no one

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Speaker 1: discovers the the say secret formula for Coke by accident

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Speaker 1: or by being this American Life and rooting it out

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Speaker 1: right and uh and then yes, so like Coke could

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Speaker 1: sue This American Life for damages. But once it's out

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Speaker 1: in the public, like, that's no longer a trade seek

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Speaker 1: and other people can use it legally. Uh. The other

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Speaker 1: way you can do it is to take coke and

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Speaker 1: reverse engineer it and come up with the formula successfully.

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Speaker 1: That way that's not protected by trade secrets. But then, uh,

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Speaker 1: I think Coke diffused that well though they were kind

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Speaker 1: of like great, good luck. Yeah, supposedly they keep it

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Speaker 1: in a bank in a bank vault here in Atlanta, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you. Um. And then the last one is a

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Speaker 1: service mark, which is like a trademark for a company

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Speaker 1: that provides services rather than products. So like if you're

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Speaker 1: a plumber, you might have sm next to your your logo.

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Speaker 1: Those are the different types of intellectual property protection protections

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Speaker 1: afforded in the United States, Chuck. But the final one,

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Speaker 1: and the one we're discussing in that length is the patent,

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Speaker 1: and that is a copyright for an invention, and the

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Speaker 1: US patent law, uh defines that as quote any new

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Speaker 1: and useful process, machine manufacturer, or composition of matter, or

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Speaker 1: any new idea and useful improvement thereof end quote. And

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Speaker 1: that is uh, well, we'll get into all that, but

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Speaker 1: the wording there is sufficiently vague and specific, because when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about inventions, it's got to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit vague, Yeah, because you don't have it all worked out.

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Speaker 1: Maybe no, because with the copyright, for example, what you

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Speaker 1: wrote down is is protected, right, the sentence structure, the

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Speaker 1: paragraphs who use the wording you used. That's protected, the

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Speaker 1: thoughts that it's getting across about the little puppy who

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Speaker 1: got lost and came back home and everything ended really well,

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Speaker 1: like you, you're the idea of a puppy getting lost

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Speaker 1: can't be copyrighted with a patent. It's the reverse, like

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Speaker 1: the actual invention, like the platform shoe with the goldfish

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Speaker 1: tank and the heel that you invented, right the you

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Speaker 1: can't defend that actual tangible shoe, but the idea, the

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Speaker 1: design of that shoe, that's what a patent protects. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can't steal It gets a little tricky with

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Speaker 1: things like writing or like movie ideas. You can't steal

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Speaker 1: someone's idea. Um, Like, there could be two movies about

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Speaker 1: lost puppies. But if you could somehow prove that you

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Speaker 1: met someone in a meeting and pitched him this idea

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Speaker 1: for the lost puppy, and then six months later they

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Speaker 1: came out with a script for a lost puppy, you

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Speaker 1: might have a case that they I don't know, man um,

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Speaker 1: it happens all the time. Okay, but think about deep

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Speaker 1: impact and armageddon. Let's go back to that. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: now I know that's what I'm saying. You can have

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Speaker 1: two movies. There their lawsuits every day filed on Hollywood

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Speaker 1: over stolen intellectual ideas. But um, whether or not successful

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Speaker 1: is whether or not you can make your case. You know,

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Speaker 1: it depends upon each one. That's a good point. So

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Speaker 1: the first thing if you want to pattent an invention

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Speaker 1: is that you have to uh well, it has to

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Speaker 1: be sufficiently novel, is what they say. So it can't

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Speaker 1: be uh uh. I mean it can be similar to

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Speaker 1: other things, but it has to be different enough to

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Speaker 1: something that's already patented or been published in a publication

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Speaker 1: to grant the patent. Yeah, because if this that's a

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Speaker 1: really key point. If if the even if you invented

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Speaker 1: something right, Um, and let's say you wrote about your

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Speaker 1: platform shoe with the goldfish tank in the heel, right,

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Speaker 1: if you wrote about it and don't file a patent

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Speaker 1: application if it was published, yes, within a year, Um,

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Speaker 1: you you can't file a patent after that. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: why the first thing you need to do is file

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Speaker 1: the patent. Like, no one invents something and writes all

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Speaker 1: about it in the Washington Post for a year and

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Speaker 1: it's just maybe I should patent it so that that's

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Speaker 1: your first step. And so that's and that's that's what

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Speaker 1: makes a novel. It's new. It's a different idea. And

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Speaker 1: like you said, you can be taking different things that

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Speaker 1: already exist but putting them together in a new way

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Speaker 1: that people hadn't thought of or that wasn't what's called

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Speaker 1: um obvious. So the the invention also has to be

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Speaker 1: non obvious. Yeah, and that's what most inventions these days

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Speaker 1: are our improvements on things that already exists. Like there

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Speaker 1: are new inventions, but a lot of it. Like the

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Speaker 1: great example they use in nineteen seventy seven when Jerome

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Speaker 1: Lemelson invented or got patented the idea of the cam quarter.

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Speaker 1: It was so absurd at the time. People were like,

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Speaker 1: you hit recorded video and sound at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Just that's denied. That's just silly, get out of here.

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Speaker 1: And he said, actually, you know, that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: good idea, and it's super easy to do because all

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Speaker 1: I have to do is tape the tape recorder to

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Speaker 1: this camera, which is probably what he did. And uh,

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Speaker 1: he was able to get the cam quarter patented, of course.

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Speaker 1: And now if you go to the patent office and

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Speaker 1: do some research. There probably thousands of patents that have

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Speaker 1: to do with the cam quarter. Each individual little piece

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Speaker 1: that someone innovates, they can patent, like night vision on

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Speaker 1: it or a light attached to it, right exactly. But

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Speaker 1: you couldn't say, I'm gonna patent a cam quord this

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Speaker 1: other guy's cam quorder idea, but it'll be green because

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Speaker 1: that's an obvious change. Or this article gives the example

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Speaker 1: of like a toaster, Like you couldn't patent a toaster

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Speaker 1: that has an extra two slots for bread because anybody

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Speaker 1: could think of that exactly. It's that's obvious, that's non obvious,

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Speaker 1: that's just a bigger toaster. And then there's also useful

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Speaker 1: um useful as kind of the last of the triumvirate

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Speaker 1: for what makes a patentable item or invention, and like

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Speaker 1: it has to be something that works. So like the

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Speaker 1: example given in this article is like you couldn't patent

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Speaker 1: random configuration of gears because it doesn't do anything, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work, it's not useful. But if those gears transported, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a new way of transporting something from

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Speaker 1: one place to another more efficiently. Maybe than you could patentable,

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Speaker 1: patentable um. And then in the same vein, something that

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Speaker 1: apparently the patent office interprets something that can be used

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Speaker 1: strictly for immoral purposes, that they consider that non useful

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Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, the patent office

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be doing this for the benefit of society.

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Speaker 1: So I guess they feel that they also can morally

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Speaker 1: interpret things as well. Yeah, what is that? Like, you

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Speaker 1: can't patent like a whiskey still like in your bedroom.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I know, I wouldn't. I think it'd

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Speaker 1: be more harmful than that, Like like maybe, um, a

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Speaker 1: doomsday laser that only works on children who haven't done

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Speaker 1: anything to anybody, But the doomsday laser for bad kids

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Speaker 1: is great. You see my point? Patentable That was a

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Speaker 1: great example if you ask me. And then similarly, your

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Speaker 1: device has to be able to be to not just work.

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Speaker 1: Like yes, you could say, well, this random configuration of

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Speaker 1: gears will work. Why can't I patent it because it's

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Speaker 1: not useful. In the same vein, you can't patent uh,

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Speaker 1: like a time machine. Again, the example they give this

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Speaker 1: this article is lousy with great examples. Yeah, like we

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Speaker 1: We tried, actually to get our way Back Machine patented,

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Speaker 1: and they said, guys, that's real cute. They're like, that's

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Speaker 1: basically just sound design. Thanks for wasting your time. We

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Speaker 1: could probably trademark it, though, although I'm sure the good

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Speaker 1: people who made Rocky and bowl Winkle would sewer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: r see us, Yeah, see ourselves. The patent in the

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Speaker 1: United States. And I apologize that this is not patents

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Speaker 1: all around the world, but we don't have like eighty

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Speaker 1: hours because we search each country. Again, any any modern

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Speaker 1: developed country typically has a patent system. Yeah, and good advice.

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Speaker 1: If you have something that you think could be used internationally,

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Speaker 1: you need to get patents in all the countries you

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Speaker 1: fear might rip it off, right, because you're your patent

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Speaker 1: that you've received in the United States protects you in

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Speaker 1: the United States, not Canada, not Japan, not Mexico, not China,

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Speaker 1: not anywhere for twenty years, right these days, that's all

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Speaker 1: long your patent will last. That's right, Chuck. Um. It

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Speaker 1: used to be seventeen and I can't remember when they

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Speaker 1: changed it, but it wasn't too terribly long ago, within

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Speaker 1: the last couple of decades, I think. Yeah, And actually, um, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll go over the types of the patent real quick too,

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Speaker 1: because one of those, the design patent is only for

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Speaker 1: fourteen years unless that's changed design patent. You'll hear that

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Speaker 1: on Shark Tank all the time. Uh. That is something

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Speaker 1: like if you designed a new chair, like an ikea chair,

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Speaker 1: that would be design patented. You can't go and rip

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Speaker 1: off that chair. Oh, but the the idea of a

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Speaker 1: chair itself isn't patentable. It's just this configuration of the

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Speaker 1: chair concept, right. Or Steve Madden will design a shoe

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Speaker 1: and Steve Madden can put a design patent on that

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Speaker 1: shoe even though it's a shoe. You can even patent

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Speaker 1: the sole of a shoe if it's some innovative new

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Speaker 1: tread tread or for like a tire that channels water

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Speaker 1: away or something like that. Exactly. Um, I don't think

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Speaker 1: those are design patents though. I think that would be

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Speaker 1: a utility patent. But design patents are enforced for fourteen years.

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Speaker 1: Utility patent um that is, there are five categories there.

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Speaker 1: It can be a process, a machine, a manufacturer, a

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Speaker 1: composition of matter, or an improvement on an existing idea,

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Speaker 1: and it might fall into a certain category, like more

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Speaker 1: than one, but it'll only be patented for one of

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Speaker 1: those categories. But it's covered and that lasts for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: So basically you're like the coffee maker that also makes

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Speaker 1: an egg and toast at the same time. That would

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Speaker 1: have gotten a utility pattern, right, uh yeah, does that exist? Yeah? Nice?

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Speaker 1: Emily said. The best egg she ever had was it

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Speaker 1: a cafe in Utah where they um cook them using

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Speaker 1: a like what she used to heat the milk like

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Speaker 1: that sprays out the steam. They were steam cooked. Weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like to make an espresso, they will put the egg

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Speaker 1: like as if you would make an espresso and cook

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Speaker 1: the eggs with that steam. I've never heard of that.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard that either. Um. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: super Weird Plant patent, and that is granted for any

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Speaker 1: a sexually or sexually reproducible plant or flour that is

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Speaker 1: novel and not obvious. Yeah, that's that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: big one because there was and in Australia it's this

399
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Speaker 1: is the way it is. But in the US it

400
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: was up in the air for a little bit that

401
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: people were worried that like naturally occurring genetic sequences could

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Speaker 1: be patented, so we're basically some company could be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we now own your genes and you can't do anything

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00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: with them, even to save your own life unless you

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Speaker 1: pay us. In in Australia, they're one of their federal

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Speaker 1: courts said yeah, like, we're totally down with that, which

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Speaker 1: is crazy. In the United States, I think in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, the Supreme Court said, yeah, we're not

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Speaker 1: doing that. You you can patent um if you can

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Speaker 1: figure out how to manipulate jens to make them do

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Speaker 1: something that doesn't naturally occur, knock yourself out, totally patent that,

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Speaker 1: like for example, mont Satto's seeds that um that prevent

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Speaker 1: themselves from receding or creating more seeds. Yeah, or some

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Speaker 1: new strain of tree that's hardy against what some kind

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00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: of insect. You can patent that, right, But you can't

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Speaker 1: just go out and patent an oak tree or a

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Speaker 1: human gene. No, you can in Australia, which should not

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Speaker 1: be allowed to do. But in the US you can't

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Speaker 1: do that. And that was a big load off off.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people's minds, including mine. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's good. I'm glad you can sleep then I am

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Speaker 1: feeling great. Plant patents are good for twenty years as well.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know why I design pats are only fourteen,

424
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: but you know, maybe they just want to encourage more

425
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: to Nobody values design like they should. That's the problem. Uh.

426
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,239
Speaker 1: As far as we mentioned Jerome Lemelson, and as far

427
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: as inventors go, he ranks second to Thomas Edison a

428
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: number of patents in US history, not necessarily a number

429
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: of inventions, though a lot of people would point out, yeah,

430
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: he's a pretty controversial guy. Some people see him as

431
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: a philanthropic genius. I'm talking about Edison, I was talking

432
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: about Lemelson. Yeah he is. He's controversial himself too, Yeah,

433
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: because he um has accused a lot of people of

434
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: creating what's called submarine patents, which are it's basically a

435
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: patent that you sit on even and knowing that there's

436
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: something just like that being developed, and you don't let

437
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: anyone know, and you just hope it doesn't get their attention,

438
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: and then later on when it's huge, you come out

439
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you owe me a ton of money

440
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: because I have this seventeen year old patent. Yeah. Now

441
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: this this Lemilson is basically what you're talking about is

442
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: a form of patent trolling. That's right, and that's he

443
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: does definitely stand accused of that, or we should say

444
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: his foundation stands accused of that. Um But Samuel Lemonson

445
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: had was um in country vertibally a genius inventor who

446
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: definitely did come up with a lot of really great ideas,

447
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: things like the cam quarter, things like bar code scanning,

448
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: like just like basically the modern world, a lot of

449
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: it came out of Lemilson's head, Jerry Lemilson's head. Right,

450
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 1: But you are right. His foundation has racked up like

451
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: a billion dollars in licensing fees and court awards from

452
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: these kind of these kind of lawsuits and litigations until

453
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: they ran up against one where it was like I

454
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 1: think a bar code scanning case, a couple of them

455
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: got put together and then they were added onto like

456
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: seven others, and the judge in the case found that

457
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: basically this even though there isn't necessarily statute of limitations,

458
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: a reasonable statute of limitations had run out on the

459
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: time between when barcode scanners came out and the time

460
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: they filed the lawsuits. And they used the term submer

461
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: marine patents in this article and said time's basically run out.

462
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: These things belong to the world now, and you know, sorry, lol,

463
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: Wilson Foundation, you're not gonna get this money. Interesting. There

464
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 1: was something past called TRIPS Agreement, Agreement on Trade Related

465
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, and that was supposed to

466
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: kind of curb submarine patents, but they'll still pop up

467
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: every now and then. I think I think TiVo reared

468
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: their head. I think I saw something about that. I

469
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: know the details though, with a submarine patent saying hey,

470
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: everyone with a Comcast DVR, we actually invented that whole technology.

471
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not sure how that all panned

472
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: out though, I didn't get to look into it any further.

473
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: But it's interesting. Well let's keep at it, but we'll

474
00:27:49,960 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: start again right after these messages. Okay, So Chuck, Yeah,

475
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about Edison? So yeah, I

476
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: said lem Jerome Lemelson was number two with five hundred

477
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: and fifty seven patents held in the US, but Edison

478
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: eclipses that with one thousand, ninety three patents. Uh. And

479
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: he had a set up in Menlo Park, New Jersey

480
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: that was just like a the idea factory basically, which

481
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: ironically is unrelated to the Menlo Park US Patent and

482
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: Trade Office out in California. Oh really, Yeah, it was

483
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: just coincidentally named from what I understand. Interesting, Uh, I

484
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: never do that connection. Um. He when he set up

485
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: the Menlo Park, he hired a bunch of like really

486
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: bright people and said, let's come up with one small

487
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: invention every ten days, one major invention every six months,

488
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: and I'll put my name on all of them exactly.

489
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: And if if the your hackles are raised right now,

490
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: go back and listen to our Nicola Tesla episode, which

491
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: is a good one. Edison was a smart guy in

492
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: many ways. He was quite a good promoter. Like the

493
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: light bulb. He's frequently credited with inventing the light bulb.

494
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: A lot of purests will point out, like, no, he

495
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: didn't really invent the light bulb. He took a lot

496
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: of other innovations that were incandescent light related and he

497
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: figured out how to put them together into what we

498
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: understand now is the light bulb. Well, yeah, but that's

499
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: an invention. Yeah, he went and got the patent, and

500
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: now everybody says Edison invented the light bulb because uh

501
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: and I like that too, because you know, that's the

502
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: kind of the whole point of patents is this stuff

503
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: is available to the public to look up. And that

504
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: was one of the original reasons they made it public,

505
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: is so people could look up other people's ideas and

506
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: build upon that, right. You know, that's one that's one

507
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: mark in the favor of patent offices in the patent

508
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: system in general, is that it's a way to disseminate

509
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: scientific information and encourage growth and uh, you know, inventiveness, right,

510
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: And the with the way it does that is by

511
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: offering an incentive for inventors to invent, because that can

512
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: be a very long, arduous, heartbreaking experience inventing. And if

513
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna do that and go to all the work

514
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: of research and development and then right when you come

515
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: up with it, somebody can just come along and mass

516
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: produce it, then you're you're not gonna have any incentive

517
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: to invent anything. You're just gonna go off and like

518
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: work on a road crew or something instead, because it's

519
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: probably a lot more satisfying at the end of the day. Yeah,

520
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: and you can't just go to the government and say, hey,

521
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: they you need to look into this guy. They stole

522
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: my idea that I have patented. The government would be like,

523
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't care. Well, they may care, that's a little callous,

524
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: but they say that's not our job. You can go

525
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: and take someone to court if you want to challenge this.

526
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: But there's no government agency that like patrols the patents infringements. No,

527
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: it's up to the patent holder to to monitor and

528
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: police their own patents, which they are big. So let's

529
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: talk about the courts a little bit. Um. It's like

530
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, if you had held a patent and

531
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: you took someone to court for infringement, the courts typically

532
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: sided with the infringer. There was a I guess kind

533
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: of either a thought that you are stifling innovation if

534
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: you're just kind of suing people over patent infringement, you know,

535
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: or else they just didn't view patents like they do today. Nowadays,

536
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: it's going to the other extreme, where the court's rule

537
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: in favor of the patent holders so frequently that a

538
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: cottage industry of what are known as patent trolls sprang up,

539
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: where you have groups of people or companies or individuals

540
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: who just go around either applying for patents that are

541
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: really abstract and really shouldn't have been approved, very vaguely written, right. Uh,

542
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: and they're typically software related to because I think there's

543
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: a sentiment that the the U. S. Patent Office it

544
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: doesn't fully grasp software and the Internet and I T

545
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. Um. So you either going

546
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: and file for and get a patent on something really

547
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: overly broad and vague, or you buy a bunch of

548
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: other people's patents and you just start for the whole

549
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: purpose of going to people and saying you're infringing on

550
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: these patents that I now own, give me some money.

551
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take you to court. It's a business unto itself,

552
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: it is. Um. The problem is because the courts moved

553
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: so far in favor of patent holders that people would

554
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: sell settle out of court to avoid litigation. And so

555
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: as a result, this this whole cottage industry came up.

556
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: And then recently there's been some steps taken to kind

557
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: of reform that a little bit. There was something called

558
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: the Innovation Act. The Innovation Act past the House was

559
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: sent to the Senate, it was in the Senate Judiciary Committee,

560
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: and then Senator Patrick Lahey killed it, and the tech

561
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: community who's really big into patent reforms, um accused him

562
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: of being in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies that

563
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: would never happen in this country, who are really big

564
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: into preserving the status quo. And if you really look

565
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: at what's going on with patent reform today in this argument, Chuck,

566
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: you've got the pharmaceutical companies versus the tech industry. Tech

567
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: industry is like things are moving so fast and there's

568
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,239
Speaker 1: so many ideas coming out that we don't like. We

569
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: can't focus on patent infringement. It shouldn't be as big

570
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: of a deal because it's stifling innovation. There's people here

571
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: that are scaring people from, you know, licensing computer software

572
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: because this guy says that he has a patent that

573
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: um you could says you could put software onto a

574
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: CD rom and and and sell it that you know,

575
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: that's the kind of patentrol thing. On the other side,

576
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical companies say, hey, man, we make tons of

577
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: money licensing our patents, and so if we are afraid

578
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: of infringing on patents because they can get sued, then

579
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: our investments are portfolio. Patents are going to be protected.

580
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,479
Speaker 1: So there's these huge behemoth lobbies like hammering it out

581
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: right now in in the halls of Congress, and it

582
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: seems like the Supreme Court in the federal government are

583
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: siding on the tech side. Yeah. They You sent that

584
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: great article from Forbes about just the problems with the

585
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: modern patent system, and that was one of the great

586
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: points that I can't remember who wrote the article, guy

587
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: who found a priceline jay Walker. Really yeah, he said that,

588
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, people are so scared companies are these days

589
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: of infringing on patents because if you can prove that

590
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: you knew about this patent, then you could be in

591
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: big trouble. So they're not even looking, which is the

592
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: original idea of making these things published is like I

593
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: said earlier, so people would go and look up how

594
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: someone did something. Maybe I can improve upon that. So

595
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: people aren't even looking now because they're afraid that they

596
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: will be it'll be traced back and be like no, no, no,

597
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: we know that you saw this. Yeah, this patent pulled

598
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: three years ago. Yeah. Because the penalties for accidental infringement

599
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: and willful infringement are vastly different, it's a big problem. Well,

600
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 1: the the jay Walker suggests that you kind of cut

601
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: the courts out and maybe make some sort of make

602
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: it easier to license things. So you just create some

603
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: big national exchange where somebody can go and easily give

604
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: somebody some money or temporarily licensed whatever they need. And

605
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: he cites some um, I think a forest research study

606
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: that suggests of the five point seven million patents that

607
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: the US is granted, two point one active patents okay

608
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: go unused and unlicensed, and of those, approximately half a

609
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: million are considered to be like high quality patents. They

610
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: just a lot of them are from university research. Uh,

611
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: and they just sit there, yeah, and so protected. The

612
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: same the same study found that like one trillion dollars

613
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: of revenue is not generated each year in the United

614
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: States because of this unused innovation that's just sitting there

615
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: in this this um in this big pot. Yeah, a

616
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: big guarded vault with a pot in it of unused ideas. Yeah,

617
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: which definitely goes against the spirit of the original idea

618
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: for sure, you know, Yeah, which means the system is broken.

619
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: It is broke. The other way that it's broken two

620
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: is the enormous backlog that's going on at the patent

621
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: and Trade Office, Oh, just getting it reviewed. And yeah,

622
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: so if you file a patent, and we're going to

623
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: talk about this in a minute, but um, if you

624
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: file a patent, chuck and they rejected, that is not

625
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: the end of the story. You can keep coming back

626
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: and back and back and back. In fact, you usually

627
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: will get rejected on the first try for one reason

628
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: or another. Right, but every time you come back, you

629
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: add to the PTOs already big backlog, right of course.

630
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: And so apparently there's another another study that Ours Technica

631
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: wrote about or carried out that that found that there

632
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: was a huge decrease in the backlog under the Obama administration.

633
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: But they suspect that it was because the PTO lowered

634
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: their standards and issued patents for a lot of shoddy

635
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,959
Speaker 1: patents just to get people to go away to clear

636
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: the backlog, because that's the best way to get rid

637
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: of somebody who keeps refiling their patent. It's just grand

638
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: them the patent and get them out of your hair. Well,

639
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: they're saying, yeah, that decreased the backlog, but it led

640
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: to a lot of shoddy patents, which in turn led

641
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: to the patentrol industry. Yeah, and a lot more burden

642
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: on the courts to suss all this stuff out later. Exactly.

643
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: The problem is the patent office has an incentive to

644
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: keep letting people file and file again because they make

645
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: money every time they generate revenue from that. Yeah, it

646
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: cost I mean, the actual patent itself will cost you

647
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: five or so that you have to up keep every

648
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: year and pay a little bit more maintenance fees. Uh, well,

649
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: it depends. Have you seen the feast schedule. Yeah, there's

650
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: like thirty or forty different things you could pay fees for. Well, yeah,

651
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: it all depends on what how detailed your patent is

652
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: and what you're trying to get through. Um. All right,

653
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: well let's talk about what you can and can patent.

654
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: We've talked a little bit about it. Um, you cannot

655
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: patent something that is exists in the natural world, like

656
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: a discovery. Like they gave another great example, Einstein's law

657
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: of relativity. He can't copyright that or patent it. I mean,

658
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: it's it's a thing. He might have named it and

659
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: figured it out, but it occurred long before Einstein was around,

660
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: just in the solar system. It kind of it belongs

661
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: to the universe. It belongs to the universe. It's a

662
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: good way of saying it. Um, you can patent like

663
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: an industrial process, like we said computer programs. You can,

664
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: but it gets a little dicey. Um. And you know,

665
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: if you if you have something you think might be patententable, patentable,

666
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: patentable or not, what you the first step you probably

667
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: should is like higher in either an agent or an attorney,

668
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: an agent or a patent attorney. Yeah, and a lot

669
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: of people do. And this is if you're like serious

670
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: about this stuff, like you really think you're onto something.

671
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: This is something you do not just hey, you got

672
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: this idea for a thing. Uh, You're not gonna want

673
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: to spend thousands and thousands of dollars unless you really

674
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: think you're onto something. Right, So the first step you

675
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: want to talk about the steps of patenting something, Yeah,

676
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: I guess the first step you can do is to

677
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: do a search yourself. Um. I think Google even has

678
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: a search function to search patents in the United States,

679
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: Um easily. But if not, you can definitely go to

680
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: the U S Patent Office site and search you some

681
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: keywords to kind of generally describe what your invention is.

682
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: To just see off the bat, if there's already something

683
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: out there that's patented, and there probably is. Yeah, it's

684
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: very rare to have a truly truly unique idea through days.

685
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: But if you have something and you're like, like the

686
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: guy who made the thermonuke clear fusion reactor in his

687
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: garage is sixteen year old, right, if he wanted to

688
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: patent that, there's probably a pretty good likelihood that he

689
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: could get that patent, and then it's gonna be worth

690
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: a ton of money. So we're gonna take that kid

691
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 1: and run him through the patent process because it's gonna

692
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: pay off for him in the end, despite the enormous

693
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: amount of money that he's going to have to spend

694
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: up front to just to get the patent protection in

695
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: the United States. Right, So he searched the database. Let's

696
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: say he went to the office in person, because that's

697
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: what kind of kid he is, and he looked through

698
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: the files and he found you know what, I think,

699
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm onto something. I don't see anything else in here

700
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: that's super like it. I feel like it's novel and

701
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: it's innovative and it's not obvious and so um, but

702
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: it's there's a lot of money on the line here.

703
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna hire a patent lawyer, who, Um, patent

704
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: agents aren't attorneys. They function similarly, but an attorney obviously

705
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: has a little more power under their belts. Well, they

706
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: have a technical degree typically and a law degree, so

707
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: the understage it just knows about the patents. They don't

708
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: have the law degree. They have the technical expertise because

709
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: you have to be able to look at the the

710
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: actual invention and understand how it works or if somebody's

711
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: just trying to pass off something dumb like you're you're

712
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: not a divorce attorney and a patent attorney. You might be,

713
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: but probably sure there's probably one out there. So, um,

714
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: a patent lawyer will review everything and say, yet, I

715
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: think you are onto something here with your garage nuclear

716
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: fusion reactor. Kid, You're you're a heck of an inventor,

717
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: and I think we can take this right through the roof.

718
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: So who's this guy? He's you know the kids stays

719
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: in the picture, dude, Hut, what's the guy? The producer,

720
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: legendary producer, the r Yeah, Robert Evans, that's who. That's

721
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: who this attorney is. Yeah, okay, we're getting this nailed. Man,

722
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: Like we're really filling it out with great detail. Although

723
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: Lionel Huts or I'm sorry Robert Evans may say, you know,

724
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: there is a patent here, don't waste your time. Um,

725
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: it's up to you. But like it's really similar in

726
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: these ways, or maybe hey, this thing is super similar,

727
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: but this actual process within your patent that you're applying

728
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 1: for is super unique, so maybe you should just focus

729
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: on that, right, and then you can license it to

730
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: the person who's already got the patent exactly. Uh. And

731
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: then that's the point where the kids is all right,

732
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: I want to move forward on this smaller part or

733
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: the original patent, and I want to fill out my

734
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: application like anything else. That's the first step, as you

735
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: have to fill out that application and send it in, yes,

736
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: with some money, with some money depending on who get

737
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: to pay that up front, right, it's for the for

738
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: the application fee. Yeah yeah, um. And then after at

739
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: that moment, once you file your application fee, your patent starts,

740
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: so that twenty year protection that doesn't kick in when

741
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: your patent is granted, like, it kicks in from the

742
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: date you filed your application, So you can go out

743
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: and put patent pending on your thermonuclear fusion reactor and

744
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: start selling it to people. That's right. In your application,

745
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: you you kind of have to spell it all out

746
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: for him. You can't just throw your idea in there

747
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: and say, you guys, do the research and see if

748
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: there's anything else out there. You have to list any

749
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: kind of um, potential roadblocks and prior art that may

750
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: be similar for them to review. You have to briefly

751
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: summarize your invention. You have to give a description of

752
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: what they call their preferred embodiment, which means how are

753
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: you going to use this thing basically, yeah, or like

754
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: what shape is it supposed to take? How do the

755
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: components fitting together? Uh? And then your claims, which are

756
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: this is the most important part um, and this is

757
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: what you're actually going to be arguing about in court

758
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: if you have to go that route. Is your claim

759
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: and that is the actual legal description of your invention, right,

760
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: and Uh, if you're claim is very well written, if

761
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: you spring for a great lawyer Robert Evans, Yeah, this

762
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: this claim is going to be very well written, very concise,

763
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: very um descriptive and so, but also sufficiently vague. Sure

764
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, because when you do take somebody to court,

765
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: and you say, this guy has totally ripped me off.

766
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: Here's my patent. Here's the description of what my thing does.

767
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: Now look at what this guy is doing. It's the

768
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: exact same thing that my patent lawyer described years ago

769
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: when I filed my patent application. So the claim is

770
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: extremely important. I mean like it's it's basically it's as

771
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: important as getting the patent itself. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um,

772
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: how much you're gonna pay that attorney all depends, of course,

773
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: on how many hours they spend. But they put in

774
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: this article between five thousand and twenty dollars. Yeah, I

775
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: saw more than that. I'm sure it can get up

776
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: to as much as you know. I'm sure corporations pay

777
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: these people a lot of money. Yeah, Well, the patent

778
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: office actually has a sliding sc ale of um fee

779
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: fee schedules. So like, if you are a micro entity

780
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: I think, which is like just probably one guy, you're

781
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: a you're an inventor, you're gonna pay the least. If

782
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: you're a corporation, you're gonna pay the most. And that's

783
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: for the patent fees, not the attorney's fees. Right, they

784
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: don't care about those. No, But if you're a corporation

785
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: and you have a lot of like a large patent portfolio,

786
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: and you have an R and D company, you have

787
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,479
Speaker 1: a patent attorney, a stable patent attornies you are working

788
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: on that anyway to have their own office in your building.

789
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: But I saw for m A in a two thousand

790
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: five article, I saw a a study had found that

791
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: for a small size business, so probably the middle slot

792
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: of the schedule fee UM, it would cost about three

793
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to get and maintain patents in ten industrialized countries.

794
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: So I mean, like, if you've got a thermonuclear fusee

795
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: and reactor and it works, it's gonna totally be worth that.

796
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: You want to patent it everywhere you can possibly do

797
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: that because you're going to make You're you're going to

798
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: change the world with it, and probably as many sub

799
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: patents as you can create. If you are kind of

800
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: shaky on your idea or you don't think it's gonna

801
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: end up paying off that much, then who knows, Maybe

802
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: a high flute and patent attorney isn't the way to go,

803
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: but maybe you go the route of like a UM

804
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: inventors help group, Like there's actually one called invent help,

805
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: and some of those some of those things are scams.

806
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: I looked up invent help. It appears to be totally legitimate.

807
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: It's got an a minus rating on the Better Business Bureau.

808
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: What do they do? Um? You have you ever watched

809
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: like daytime television? They're like inventors, Do you want to

810
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: help get your invention to market? They do every every

811
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: step of the way, like you submit your invention. I

812
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: think they help you get it patented, to help you

813
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: market it. They may set up a website to sell

814
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: it on TV. Yes, they get a piece of the

815
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: revenue down the streath, down the line. Or they may

816
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: also require fees along the way. Um, but some of

817
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: them are kind of scammy. Apparently invent help is not UM.

818
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: And then another good resource for you if you are

819
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: an inventor of limited means, would probably be to get

820
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: to the Lemilson Foundation that was established by that inventor

821
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: Jerome Lemilson, who spent most of his career suing companies

822
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: that we're using as his patented stuff. Um. They I

823
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: think it's called Lemilson Foundation dot org. They have a

824
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: bunch of programs to help inventors, especially young inventors. It's

825
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: a good place to start. I would think, all right,

826
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna finish up on how to finish up the

827
00:47:44,680 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: patent process and a few more critiques right after this. Alright,

828
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: so this kid has has turned his idea into the

829
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: patent office. Um, like we said earlier, it has a

830
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: pretty good chance of getting rejected on the first pass,

831
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: and they will tell you exactly why, and then it's

832
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: up to you whether or not you want to redo

833
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: it or just bail on it all together, or you know,

834
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: like I said, redo it and resubmit it and see

835
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: how your luck runs. Right, And the reasons for rejection

836
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: can be myriad, you know, like literally thirty thousand different reasons. So, uh,

837
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: it can be something from the patent office saying like

838
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: we think that this is way too close to another

839
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: already patent invention. We don't think it's necessarily an improvement,

840
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: it's not useful. These are the very high level reasons

841
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: they can be rejected. If that happens, then you might

842
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: want to go back to the drawing board. And more frequently,

843
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: I think it's like we think the wording and your

844
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: claim is a little too vague. We don't quite understand

845
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 1: the description. Can you make these changes to this paragraph

846
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: You're drawing is missing a label like the the patent

847
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: is supposed to be flawless, well written, the like. If

848
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: you hire a patent attorney, they're going to hire an

849
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: artist to do the drawing for that's submitted to the

850
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: patent office. Um, so it's like really supposed to be

851
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: professional and well done and so like for any minute

852
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: technical detail, they can reject it, but then they'll also

853
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: explain why, and then you can just make the change

854
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: in refile. Um. If it's something that's just kind of

855
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: open new interpretation. If you have a patent attorney, your

856
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: patent attorney can be like, let's negotiate this point and

857
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: hopefully get the whole thing passed through. And I wonder

858
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: if you have to go back to the back of

859
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: the line, or if you have a new phone number

860
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: you can call. I don't know for like, you know, man,

861
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: that's the key, isn't it. Get that that secret phone

862
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: number to the person who actually picks up the first time,

863
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: and you can be like, please help me. Yeah, um,

864
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: I don't think one thing we did mention if you uh,

865
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: and it gets really dicey if you work for a

866
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: company and you have an invention as an employee of

867
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: that company. Um. There have been countless hanky situations. I

868
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: remember the one they made the movie about the guy

869
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: who um invented the delayed Winschield wiper. Is that a

870
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: documentary that's out on Netflix? There probably is, But I

871
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: think what's his face to the guy from As Good

872
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: as It Gets Great can here? Um? I didn't see

873
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: the movie though, but I think that was a case

874
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: of someone who works for or worked for a company,

875
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: or maybe he didn't work for a company. Maybe he

876
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: just presented it to car companies and he thinks they

877
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: ripped him off. But if you work for a company,

878
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: you might get the pat but the company might still

879
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: own the product or the process that you invented, you know,

880
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: because you did it as their employee under their per view.

881
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: But you might still get a personal patent for it,

882
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: but maybe you might not benefit like you would as

883
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: a as a private person. No, And basically, if you're

884
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: an inventor, good luck getting a contract with the Corporation

885
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: of the United States where you don't automatically sign over

886
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: every bit of your invention to that company. Or if

887
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 1: you are if you create anything creative, you are probably

888
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: have a work for higher contract where all of your

889
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: work that you write or draw, or design or compose

890
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: automatically belongs to the company. So the ironic thing is

891
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: it is like you are technically the creator of that

892
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: work or that invention, but if you go and republish it,

893
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: like on your own personal website, you're infringing on this

894
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: copyright right um, that your your company owns, and your

895
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: company can sue you to to to stop or to

896
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: do whatever. Um. And that's a big critique of the

897
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: patent system too, is that there's not a lot that

898
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: the Patent and Trade Office can do about it. But

899
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: just the way the system works right now, corporations have

900
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: all of the power as far as patents go. Yeah,

901
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: that's it's such a tough thing. I mean, you hear.

902
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: They're just countless stories from history of so and so

903
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: invented this this thing that we all use, but they

904
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: never made a penny off of it because they did

905
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: it for IBM, or like the guys who invented Superman,

906
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: they were paid like a hundred and fifty or three

907
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: hundred bucks by d C and um basically told thanks

908
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: a lot and over the years is DC made tens

909
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: and tens and hundreds of millions of dollars off of Superman.

910
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: These guys were like, like, this isn't right, And finally,

911
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: after there was enough outcry, they were granted like some

912
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: some back revenue. They got a cape. Do you remember

913
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: our Christmas extravaganza from last year? The guy who composed

914
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer for Montgomer Reward and hit

915
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 1: on hard times and the president of Montgomery Ward granted

916
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: him the copyright to root off the Red Nosed Reindeer.

917
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: That like, that doesn't happen, Yeah, and that's that's a copyright,

918
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: not a patent er and invention. It's I see both

919
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: sides a little bit. You know. I always think that

920
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: corporations are the ones taking advantage. But if you work

921
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: for IBM and you have they have given you the

922
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: resources and paid you money to do this, then that's

923
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, quit your job and go invent something on

924
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: your own. Then you know, yeah, um so a kind

925
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: of see both sides, But generally I think corporations probably

926
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: sticking it to the man. So, speaking of corporations sticking

927
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: it to the man or humanity in general, UM is

928
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 1: of the pharmaceutical industry again, so I said that they're

929
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: they're very happy with UM. The status quo and one

930
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: of the great criticisms of the patent system now as

931
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: it is is you can get a patent. You can

932
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: buy a pat and just sit on it, like you

933
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: can buy a patent, say from a competitor, or from

934
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: somebody who may be a competitor down the road and

935
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: prevent them from making it. Even if this thing benefits humanity,

936
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: even if it literally saves people's lives, you can you

937
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: can sit on a patent, and apparently drug companies have

938
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: been known to do that. There was one famous UM

939
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 1: case with a company called am Gen, and they developed

940
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: an anemia drug that treated anemia and iron deficiency and

941
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: it worked really well. Um the problem is is like

942
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: the body absorbed it really quick, so you had to

943
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: take large doses for your whole life. Apparently this researchers

944
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: chemist found a way to make the drug longer lasting,

945
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: which in am Gen's mind meant, well, we can't make

946
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: as much money off of it. So this lady was like,

947
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: can I just see your patents and I can figure

948
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: out a way to to latch this onto your drug

949
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: and save lives and a. And it's like, no, we're

950
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 1: not gonna let you see our our materials are researched.

951
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: We don't want to make that better man. But so

952
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: that and that's that's not as overt as buying a

953
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 1: patent sitting on it to keep people from doing it.

954
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: But that does happen like it's a it's a it's

955
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: a it's a competitive way to navigate the business climate. Well,

956
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: put Josh, you've worked your way around that one very nicely. Oh,

957
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: I got something here. Um, if you it might take

958
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: like a year to five years to get this patent

959
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: um from pending two approved. And let's say you put

960
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: in an idea very similar to someone else around the

961
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: same time. That happens all the time. If that happens,

962
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: they declare and what they call an interference a dance off,

963
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: a dance off exactly, And they have to actually have

964
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: a little trial, um, a little trial like they serve

965
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: tea and everything's in minuture, everything small. Um. They have

966
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 1: a trial where they basically figure out who got there first. Yeah,

967
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: there's a very famous case of um Alexander Graham Bell

968
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: and Elijah Gray Um basically putting in a pattern for

969
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: the telephone at the same time. And I guess for

970
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: a long time it was whoever could prove they invented

971
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: it first in the United States was the one who

972
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: got the patent. And then I just to simplify things,

973
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: in March of two, the US changed its patent law.

974
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: So now the first inventor to file is the one

975
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: who receives the patent. So even if it's by a minute,

976
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: whoever got it there first is the one who gets

977
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 1: the patent. That's why filing that patent right away is

978
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: uh is your best defense? Like go now, stop, press pause,

979
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: and go do it right now. Seriously, if you have

980
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: an invention, Um, I just got one more thing on

981
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: the the old the infamous poor man's patent or poor

982
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: man's copyright. Sure, everyone's heart, Like all you gotta do

983
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: is write it out and mail it to yourself. I

984
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 1: think I suggested that on this this this show before,

985
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: didn't you remember? I don't remember that. But that is

986
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: just an old wives tale that's not going to hold

987
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: up in court. It's basically worthless. But I don't understand

988
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: why if like right when you create the work, it

989
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: automatically is copyrighted why would that, like dating it not

990
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: make it not just substantiated even more Well not, I'm

991
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: not talking about writing a book. I'm talking about Hey,

992
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm I did this invention and here's the schematic and

993
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna mail Okay, okay, So it could work for

994
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: something copyrighted, but not a patent. Well no, I mean

995
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: if it's if it's just an original work of art

996
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: you've created, like a book, then like I said, it's

997
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: already copyrighted, so they doesn't even apply. Okay, So but

998
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: if you invented something in designed it and just mail

999
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: this to yourself, it's worthless. Basically you can't prove like

1000
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: envelopes can be steamed open and manipulated like that's not

1001
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: gonna hold up in court. You can do it if

1002
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: you want, sure, take it to court. I have an

1003
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: extra stamp that I don't know what to do with.

1004
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, let's see you got anything else? Nothing else?

1005
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about patents, Uh, it's

1006
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,479
Speaker 1: actually surprisingly interesting stuff. Um you can type that word

1007
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: in the search part how stuff works dot com. And

1008
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: since I said that, it's time for a listener mail,

1009
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this. Thanks for the panic attack episode.

1010
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad they said episode. We've got a lot of

1011
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: great feedback. I think this touched a lot of people

1012
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: because they're way more common than you think. Um, Hey, guys,

1013
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: love the episode on panic attacks. I have them in college,

1014
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: brought on by normal college stress plus the loss of

1015
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: a beloved uncle. I would often wake up in the

1016
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: night standing in the hall of my dorm feeling like

1017
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: I could not breathe. Sometimes I would be awake enough

1018
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: to think I'm dying. I just need to get the

1019
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: hallway so someone will find me or my body. Sometimes

1020
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: I would just wake up screaming. What helped and the

1021
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: reason I'm writing was some wonderful therapy offered through my

1022
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: university's health services, along with some antidepressants. In the support

1023
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: of my family and friends. I learned coping mechanisms to

1024
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: get me through my anxiety, how to express my stress

1025
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: so I wasn't bottling at all up inside, and the

1026
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: importance of taking time to rest my mind and body.

1027
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: With all the help, I was able to leave therapy

1028
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: after a few semesters, was able to recognize that I

1029
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: needed it again later and graduate school. After the birth

1030
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: and my second year with my much loved but very

1031
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: unplanned child. I urge all college students, graduate and undergrad

1032
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: to really take advantage of their mental health services that

1033
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: are offered to them. For me, as a student at

1034
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: my university, each session was only ten bucks. Man, remember

1035
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: that college. All that stuff was so cheap, like the doctor.

1036
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: You can go see a shrink for like five dollars.

1037
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: I remember I got acupuncture of like three bucks a

1038
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: sessionally they no I did that in l A through

1039
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: a university though my roommate there's just some dude exactly

1040
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: he was good with a needle. Um uh. And it

1041
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: could also be charged to my bursts our account, which

1042
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. Burs sir. Yeah,

1043
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: I didn't have one on those ben't. Yeah, I remember

1044
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: that from college, but I don't remember what it was.

1045
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: I think the word looks familiar. The health building was

1046
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: on campus, so sessions fit right into my schedule. And

1047
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough how beneficial it was for me.

1048
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: Without therapy, I would no doubt have not made it

1049
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: through college and graduate school. There's no shame in therapy

1050
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: or medication to help you through tough times. Turns out

1051
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: pretty much everyone goes through it to some extent, and

1052
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: no one is weak for getting help. Admitting you need

1053
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: help is what makes you a stronger person. In my opinion,

1054
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: and Rosalie Maltby, researcher at the University of Oklahoma Department

1055
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: of Biology, I couldn't agree more. Well, thanks a lot,

1056
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: is it Rosa Lee, Rosalie, Rosalie, Thanks a lot, Rosalie.

1057
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: We appreciate you writing and spreading that message because it's

1058
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: a good one. Very pretty name as well. Um, if

1059
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: you have a patent, we want to hear from you.

1060
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 1: Tell us what your patent is so we'll steal it.

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01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, can't. It's patented about. If you've got

1062
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: a great idea that you haven't yet patented, send that

1063
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,120
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1064
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01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,680
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01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,800
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