Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: All right, listeners, update.
Speaker 1: I went over to Elizabeth the not so Dying Squirrel,
Speaker 1: and she's scurried.
Speaker 3: Away and welcome to behind the bastards.
Speaker 2: But to the sipe, yeah, what a funk off.
Speaker 1: You're gonna do a good You're gonna do a normal intro.
Speaker 3: Some of us professional someone.
Speaker 1: Just to say, maybe I was right not to smash
Speaker 1: her with a rock and to feel sadness on the inside,
Speaker 1: and maybe she's.
Speaker 3: To evaluate her with myself. So I just said, if
Speaker 3: she's suffering, you should smash her with the rock. That's
Speaker 3: the humane thing to do.
Speaker 2: You know, Well, in that case, I mean smash We're
Speaker 2: we're all suffering in a.
Speaker 3: Way, and are we not all praying.
Speaker 2: For begging to be smashed the rock?
Speaker 3: At the end of the.
Speaker 1: I hope Elizabeth and not so dying squirrel scurried away
Speaker 1: and now is like.
Speaker 3: You know, I hope she's fine now an acorn if
Speaker 3: you're not. If something's not fine, you always have rocks.
Speaker 3: A big enough rock can stop anyone's pain. You know,
Speaker 3: that's about rock.
Speaker 1: I always have my phone that can call you who
Speaker 1: has rocks.
Speaker 3: I've got thoughts. I got so many rocks.
Speaker 2: I'm not throwing a rock at Elizabeth.
Speaker 3: You don't throw the rock. That's not nearly like. That's
Speaker 3: the odds of you missing and just injuring the animal.
Speaker 3: You know, that's just inhumane.
Speaker 2: Carry I've been carrying around the same rock for for
Speaker 2: twenty years, and I'm shocked. I'm shocked how easy it
Speaker 2: is to get a rock onto I mean, I mean, Jimmy.
Speaker 3: You're very experienced killing, like we've we've established that on
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 2: Start this shit again, Okay, listen, I can't afford this anymore.
Speaker 2: This has followed me. I just got back from my
Speaker 2: book tour and these accusations have followed me around the country.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. I've been yeah, yeah for those
Speaker 3: for those deaths, and fuck what was the town I
Speaker 3: made up? You killing people?
Speaker 2: And oh my god, I can't forget. I can't at
Speaker 2: me all the time. Unbelievable. There's so many people who like,
Speaker 2: I've signed a book and then they've leaned in conspiratorially
Speaker 2: and said, I'm okay with what you did in Grand Rabbids.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 2: You know there's sickos.
Speaker 3: We're manufacturing consent so that when you do have to
Speaker 3: kill somebody, everyone's like, it's fine for Jamie to do this.
Speaker 2: This is a psychological experiment.
Speaker 3: I'm giving you a get it out of jail free
Speaker 3: card here.
Speaker 2: Look, and now I feel like I shouldn't even say it, Like,
Speaker 2: but how easy it's.
Speaker 3: Take out the jewelry pool. It's gonna be like a
Speaker 3: fucking Luigi situation. She must have had a reason.
Speaker 2: Look in his defense, I mean, Louis. The Luigi defense
Speaker 2: is you're honored? Will we put this hotty behind bars?
Speaker 2: I think not Rod, He's too He's just simply too.
Speaker 2: Are you not foaming? Are you not foaming? Come on,
Speaker 2: I just I've been bringing I've gotten a rock, like
Speaker 2: a rock that could proble probably do some damage through
Speaker 2: like airport security all the time. It's really just.
Speaker 3: Because the rocks don't set off the metal detectors. I
Speaker 3: don't think there's specifically a rule against taking a rock
Speaker 3: on a plane, because like there's gym girls. You know
Speaker 3: it's I think it's probably fine to take a big
Speaker 3: rock on a plane.
Speaker 2: You know, I can I can confirm you will not
Speaker 2: have a problem with the rocks.
Speaker 3: You know what, I'm a company money to book like
Speaker 3: twenty different flights in the course of like two weeks
Speaker 3: and just repeatedly take flights with larger start with a
Speaker 3: small rock, and just to go up by like a
Speaker 3: half inch diameter each time and see at what point
Speaker 3: they're like, you can't take that on a plane.
Speaker 2: I bet my guess is they'll be a point where
Speaker 2: they'll be they'll ask, and then there's going to be
Speaker 2: a point where they say we cut off, and then
Speaker 2: you should, and then you should just be like, where's
Speaker 2: the rule? Yeah, where's the r It's like airbud, what's
Speaker 2: the rule that says a dog can't play basketball? What's
Speaker 2: the rule that I can't have a rock on a plane.
Speaker 2: It's a souvenir you can't.
Speaker 3: It's a souvenir rock from wherever I found it. So, Jamie,
Speaker 3: this has all been fun. You know, it's not going
Speaker 3: to be fun with the rest of the Returning to
Speaker 3: Pete Hegseth's Fascist Manifesto.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe. I've thought for sure we were you
Speaker 2: were finishing the book, but it was just starting.
Speaker 3: No. No, there's so many there's almost a normal book's
Speaker 3: number of words in this book, or roughly a normal
Speaker 3: book's number of words in this book. Shocking.
Speaker 2: I feel like they're they're like, really, you know, pamphlety.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, actually I happen to agree. You know,
Speaker 3: some of the some of the quotes on the back
Speaker 3: of the book. One of them stated, this is this
Speaker 3: is Pete Hegseth's Raw Dog, which, since it came out
Speaker 3: a couple of years before your book, was a weird
Speaker 3: statement to make. But you know, it is true that
Speaker 3: publishers who commune regularly with the sacred spirits of the
Speaker 3: Oracle of Delphi have been awaiting your book for generations.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it. Look, I realized that it was
Speaker 2: fulfilling your prophecy of sorts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are references to Raw Dog, and oh fuck,
Speaker 3: it was going to be a great joke. I forgot
Speaker 3: the name of the oldest story ever, fuck with the
Speaker 3: with the fucking the monster and the guy with the sword.
Speaker 3: God damn it.
Speaker 2: What's the oldest book in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the oldest like proper no idea, not novel.
Speaker 2: Uh, you're talking about the epic of.
Speaker 3: Gilgames Gilgamesh, God damn it, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what were you what were you gonna say,
Speaker 2: Robert about the epic.
Speaker 3: Of I was going to say there were references to
Speaker 3: raw Dog and the Epic of Gilgamesh, but I forgot
Speaker 3: the name of the Epic of Gilgamesh, and I just
Speaker 3: ruined the whole bit. It's fucked.
Speaker 2: It's okay. I fact checked it for you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, Sophie, Jesus Christ. Oh God.
Speaker 2: Technically it was a poem, but you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: It's a poem. Whatever, it counts. Just like Pete Ra
Speaker 3: raw Dog, Yeah, the American Crusade.
Speaker 2: I love a good name competition. It would be it
Speaker 2: would be great if there was a right wing book
Speaker 2: that couldn't use the title raw Dog.
Speaker 3: I was just thinking how funny it would be if,
Speaker 3: like you get made Secretary of Defense next and like
Speaker 3: journalists at like New York Magazine are like quoting from
Speaker 3: Raw Dog to try to determine how you'll run the military.
Speaker 2: A bunch of woke bullshit.
Speaker 3: We really don't know where she's gonna go. Actually, this
Speaker 3: is this is anybody's game. Impossible to predict your policy
Speaker 3: on Iran based on this hot talk book.
Speaker 2: Look, there's a I think some of my policies are
Speaker 2: in there. My international policy remains absolutely inscrutable.
Speaker 3: I know, and you do spend there is that weird
Speaker 3: chunk in the middle of Raw Dog where you spend
Speaker 3: forty pages arguing in favor of the littoral defense ships
Speaker 3: that the US Navy was building for a while, which I.
Speaker 2: Think that when you read it it sounds out of context,
Speaker 2: but when you read it, it actually makes quite a
Speaker 2: lot of sense. Why it's there.
Speaker 3: They are the hot dogs of the sea, a lot
Speaker 3: of sailor seas.
Speaker 2: That's exactly it.
Speaker 3: So we're now seven minutes in. Pete's next chapter is
Speaker 3: called twenty twenty Death, Divorce or Dawn, which I do love,
Speaker 3: like for a man who's been divorced this many times,
Speaker 3: Death divorce or don Right, that's him talking about the
Speaker 3: different paths the country could go down. We can either die,
Speaker 3: we can have a national divorce, or we can have
Speaker 3: a new Dawn. Right. So it opens with him talking
Speaker 3: about how much he regrets that he was a never
Speaker 3: Trumper at one point, or he was almost a never Trumper, right,
Speaker 3: And this is a necessary mea culpa from a guy
Speaker 3: who was on record as when Trump first started running,
Speaker 3: he was backing Marco Rubio, right, and heg Seth was
Speaker 3: a more mainstream Republican in this period, although he is
Speaker 3: still very he's always been very far right. He just
Speaker 3: didn't think Trump could win. And also Trump was like
Speaker 3: a weird New York real estate guy, right, he didn't
Speaker 3: seem like a real conservative because he's not right.
Speaker 2: He's a politician, he has to hedges bets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just a dick and a fascist. Anyway, his
Speaker 3: journey is one we've seen a lot of Trump's inner
Speaker 3: circle go on.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: The reason why they've been able to go from this
Speaker 3: guy should never could absolutely never be president, be a
Speaker 3: disaster to uh, you know what, maybe he's the savior
Speaker 3: of the people. Right. The reason that they went through
Speaker 3: that is because the only thing any of these people
Speaker 3: Pete included, believe is that, like, I should be close
Speaker 3: to power, right, And yeah, so you just kind of
Speaker 3: have to know if you're in Pete's position, where you
Speaker 3: have some documentation as being on the other side of things,
Speaker 3: you have to like explain how you turned around to
Speaker 3: licking the boot right. So here's what he gives is
Speaker 3: his first conversion moment. My first conversion moment was watching
Speaker 3: a televised Trump rally in April twenty sixteen in southern California.
Speaker 3: The protests on the street were so fierce that Trump
Speaker 3: and his staff had to leave their cars walk along
Speaker 3: a highway to be escorted into a back entrance of
Speaker 3: the venue. Helicopters followed as every moved, and leftists were delighted.
Speaker 3: What was he talking about that was so controversial? America?
Speaker 3: Make America great again? Build the Wall America First. Outside
Speaker 3: the arena, the left wing protesters seethed with rage. Many
Speaker 3: of them waved Mexican flags and confronted police. Now, there's
Speaker 3: no reason to believe that this actually had an impact. Pete.
Speaker 3: The reason he brings this up is it fits established narrative, right.
Speaker 3: I like pethe yeah, I like that, But it fits
Speaker 3: the narrative that like, we're only fascist because of the
Speaker 3: radical left right, that's what made us be fascist.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: And obviously Pete's documented history shows this. This is a
Speaker 3: guy who always wanted politics and always had really regressive
Speaker 3: right wing views that he largely used to attack people
Speaker 3: he thought were less than him.
Speaker 2: I like, I just just I mean, where do you
Speaker 2: in southern California do you think he was when you
Speaker 2: saw when he saw this? Do you think he is
Speaker 2: like Disneyland.
Speaker 3: He's hammered it not very farm Probably he's got a
Speaker 3: puke on a roller coaster.
Speaker 2: He's in the fast pass line for Great Thunder Mountain.
Speaker 2: He's like, you know what I'm going to give.
Speaker 3: So one thing I do believe is when Pete asserts
Speaker 3: that Trump taught him how to wage political combat, which
Speaker 3: is accurate from what we can see, right, because this
Speaker 3: is a guy who failed to get a start in
Speaker 3: politics because he didn't really understand what Trump did, right,
Speaker 3: And Trump proved you don't have to pretend to be respectable,
Speaker 3: you don't have to pretend to be nice. You can
Speaker 3: be you can lie and cry havoc, and people who
Speaker 3: are just as shitty as you will hate whoever you're
Speaker 3: yelling at, because their lives are only filled if they
Speaker 3: have hate, right Like that, That's what Trump understood, and
Speaker 3: that's what Pete learns from him. And I do think
Speaker 3: he's being accurate here when he says that Trump taught
Speaker 3: me how to fight in the political sense, because there's
Speaker 3: absolutely no evidence he knew how to do it previously.
Speaker 3: I find it interesting that Trump credits him for giving
Speaker 3: him a Trump spine, and he writes that Trump taught
Speaker 3: him how to quote live the lyrics of my favorite
Speaker 3: rock band, I feel safe inside the violence right of
Speaker 3: the political arena. Right, that's that's a And now I
Speaker 3: bet you're wondering what song is that from?
Speaker 2: Right, I'm scared to know.
Speaker 3: It's from the Ever Clear song Santa Ana wind which
Speaker 3: is very much a Southern California tune about being the
Speaker 3: kind of person Pete hates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his favorite band is Ever.
Speaker 3: Clear, Ever Clear right, which is fascinting, particularly weird because
Speaker 3: the lead singer ever Clear, Art Alexakis, describes himself as
Speaker 3: a left wing Christian who despises conservative Christianity and wrote
Speaker 3: a song called Jesus was a Democrat?
Speaker 2: Has he listened to the listened to the very Clear?
Speaker 3: Also not a Santa Ana Windes. Not a song about
Speaker 3: like fighting, really like, that's not what it's about. It.
Speaker 3: It's about living in southern California. It's about the Santa
Speaker 3: Ana Winds.
Speaker 2: Really good, a trump spine just to stack a diet.
Speaker 3: Come again, folks, don't make art, you know, burn, Go
Speaker 3: go out there right now and you know, destroy a
Speaker 3: bunch of vinyl records, you know, annihilate human culture. I'm
Speaker 3: on the AI team now there's no.
Speaker 2: Disco demolition the people. I think people should always make art,
Speaker 2: especially if you're bad at it, because if you're bad
Speaker 2: at it, keep bad, keep it.
Speaker 3: You're gotta say that, Jamie, until we get until we
Speaker 3: get the fascist leader who's like holding up raw Dog
Speaker 3: and he's like this, based on this book, we have
Speaker 3: to expel all the immigrants.
Speaker 2: So many of his You should know better than anyone's history.
Speaker 2: His greatest monsters were failed art. Is just keep making
Speaker 2: the bad art. If George Bush had just painted his
Speaker 2: damn landscape.
Speaker 3: You're right, you're right. I mean that. That is my
Speaker 3: actual stance is that we need a whole government department
Speaker 3: that like provides fake fans to untalented conservatives who want
Speaker 3: to succeed in Hollywood. Oh yeah, everyone loves your TV show.
Speaker 3: They can't get enough of it. Don't try going out
Speaker 3: to any of the regular conventions. Go to this one
Speaker 3: that we're putting on. Your fans will all be there.
Speaker 2: I would be a crisis actor in that department.
Speaker 3: It's just it's mission critical, Yeah, honestly, just some soft reinforcement. Yeah,
Speaker 3: just like like an elite military corps who show up
Speaker 3: at the stand up Nights that these guys put on
Speaker 3: and are like they have like a Navy seal hell
Speaker 3: week boot camp for how to pretend to laugh at them.
Speaker 2: Although when you put it like that, they are kind
Speaker 2: of doing that.
Speaker 3: Yes, no, this would be protecting the nation much more
Speaker 3: than any military action in my lifetime.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, we have to keep selling out those men
Speaker 2: and women as long as I promise to never run
Speaker 2: for office.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you had to listen to Michael Knowles's
Speaker 3: stand up, like my country is a pus our bravest soldiers,
Speaker 3: our bravest soldiers. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like this whole chapter is like, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's so diabolical where he he's acting like a rom
Speaker 2: com character who's like and I could really be my
Speaker 2: full self now I can just be awful.
Speaker 3: I could be like this song I clearly don't understand
Speaker 3: because Trump taught me how to be racist and not
Speaker 3: feel bad about it.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: The next few pages of Pete's book are accounting of
Speaker 3: Trump's rise to be leader of the Republican Party, and again,
Speaker 3: this isn't really worth going over. We all know what happened.
Speaker 3: What is interesting is the account that Pete gives this
Speaker 3: of his own first attempt at getting into politics his
Speaker 3: twenty twelve Senate run in Minnesota. I A, which is
Speaker 3: not what it's called. During Yeah, Minnesotia. During the Senate run,
Speaker 3: he attempted to defeat Amy Klobachar. I say attempted because
Speaker 3: he failed. He blames his loss, and he does not
Speaker 3: succeed in getting the Republican nomination, right, he loses the primary.
Speaker 3: He doesn't even get to go up against Amy. He
Speaker 3: doesn't even get to get Kloba charted.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Jesus, they shocked that one.
Speaker 3: That looked they can't all be winter, they can't all
Speaker 3: be winner. Cloba shocked. Yeah, that's got that's better. So
Speaker 3: he blames his loss on the Star Tribune, which he
Speaker 3: calls Minnesota's communist paper of record. Weirdly, and here's what's weird.
Speaker 3: It's like so I look into him, like, oh, so
Speaker 3: they must have like said, don't vote for Pete. Hegseth Right,
Speaker 3: it's the opposite. They described Pete as a picture perfect
Speaker 3: outsider who seemed like he had a really good chance
Speaker 3: at winning the GOP candidacy because like, oh, he's a veteran, right,
Speaker 3: maybe he could probably win. You know, that's that's old
Speaker 3: electorally so miserable.
Speaker 2: When any type of fascist calls a centrist paper radical,
Speaker 2: You're like, I wouldn't you wouldn't it. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: like now ultimately serving your project.
Speaker 3: Phrasing the Star Tribune because they're their analysis was just shitty,
Speaker 3: like wells of veterans will probably win, right, discounting the
Speaker 3: fact that Pete hag Seth can't do anything right. That
Speaker 3: like he's he sucked at the last time he ran.
Speaker 3: At this point, he's had two different like NGO's that
Speaker 3: he's been a part of, and he spent all the
Speaker 3: money on drugs and partying. You know that veterans, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: veterans could be some of the most fucked up people
Speaker 3: in the country. You know, often in a you know,
Speaker 3: I've I've so I started doing drugs with was a
Speaker 3: traumatized veteran. Actually, he would have been a really good
Speaker 3: Minnesota Senate member, but you know, he's to get involved
Speaker 3: in the Minnesota Senate. Yeah, man, can you imagine our
Speaker 3: buddy greasy will in the Senate. I would vote for
Speaker 3: him in a heartbeat, oh man. So yeah, So he loses,
Speaker 3: and again he's angry at the Start Tribune because they
Speaker 3: describe him as a really good candidate. And he's like, well,
Speaker 3: this is why I lost, because like, no one likes
Speaker 3: the mainstream media. And when they said that I, you know,
Speaker 3: was good, that that doomed me, right, that doomed me
Speaker 3: to my voter base. Right, it's their fault. They destroyed
Speaker 3: me by being nice to me. The reality is Pete's
Speaker 3: campaign was doomed from the start because he's bad at this. Right.
Speaker 3: He's again, he can't he can't Pete. He can't run
Speaker 3: an he can't run a charitable organization funneling money into
Speaker 3: right wing politics because he's too fucking corrupt. Right, he
Speaker 3: never had what it took to build any kind of
Speaker 3: independent support or power. He's not very disciplined. Again, he's
Speaker 3: hammered half the time here.
Speaker 2: He was like, doesn't it it sounds like that he's
Speaker 2: like wasted money that was supposed to go to veterans before, right.
Speaker 3: Well, it was supposed to be used by a veterans organization.
Speaker 3: Is what right wing politics this? They were not helping
Speaker 3: vests somebody like ultimately, they were trying to push more
Speaker 3: support for the surge in Iraq, right, and then attack Obama.
Speaker 3: You know, like, I'm not saying it was. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying like, oh, it's a shame he wasted that money, right,
Speaker 3: it's theoretically yeah. So I want to quote from an article,
Speaker 3: another article I found on the Star Tribute in the
Speaker 3: wake of Pete's defeat, and this is them talking about
Speaker 3: it just kind of summarizes what an incoherent messis candidates.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 3: So this is right after he loses the primary. Although
Speaker 3: heg Seth had previously said he would not run in
Speaker 3: a primary if he did not win his party's endorsement,
Speaker 3: he sent out a cryptic email to supporters Wednesday that
Speaker 3: raised serious doubts about that pledge. The email was titled
Speaker 3: the Fight Continues and did not say he planned to
Speaker 3: support state Representative Bills, who decisively won the GOP nod
Speaker 3: at the state convention on Friday. Now, this all led
Speaker 3: to days of speculation that he was going to run
Speaker 3: against the GOP candidate who had been endorsed by the
Speaker 3: Ron Paul organization. And it was the kind of thing
Speaker 3: where like they just wouldn't clarify what that message had
Speaker 3: meant for days until eventually, like they're basically cornered and
Speaker 3: forced to say like, no, I'm not really going to
Speaker 3: run like it was just a narcissist who could only
Speaker 3: respond to losing with sad bluster, even though he had
Speaker 3: been out organized and out fundraised and very obviously beaten. Right, right, I.
Speaker 2: Love a good refuse to give up. Well, obviously needing
Speaker 2: to give up.
Speaker 3: Obviously, right, It's beautiful stuff. So in his book years later,
Speaker 3: Pete would insist that he was glad now he's glad
Speaker 3: that he didn't win, and he says specifically, I'm glad
Speaker 3: that patriots didn't vote for me then, right, because they
Speaker 3: were right. I was still a Rhino or Republican in
Speaker 3: name only at that point, right, I didn't really know
Speaker 3: the way. You know, I hadn't accepted Trump as my
Speaker 3: word savior.
Speaker 2: People were thinking about of that yard.
Speaker 3: It's good that they wonn't because I wasn't. I wasn't
Speaker 3: enough of a fascist yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cope.
Speaker 3: So we conclude this chapter with another rant that the
Speaker 3: American left is an exit sestential threat to freedom. Then
Speaker 3: we have the obligatory call to violence that he swears
Speaker 3: isn't a call to violence if left to succeed, and
Speaker 3: turning it in it the United States into something else. Then,
Speaker 3: as strident as it may seem, divorce is imminent. If
Speaker 3: they turn into King George the Third, find me a
Speaker 3: town square in Lexington or a bridge and conquered to
Speaker 3: stand on. I believe millions of Americans, properly prepared and organized,
Speaker 3: would do the same. Our great flag means nothing without freedom.
Speaker 3: Better to go our separate ways a new freedom loving
Speaker 3: country at all than be complicit in the destruction of America.
Speaker 3: This is not a call to violence, not at all,
Speaker 3: and it's not what anybody wants. It's cynthia recognition that
Speaker 3: freedom loving Americans will not stand idly by and watch
Speaker 3: our blessed freedoms be trampled. Now, among other things, what
Speaker 3: are people pissed about King George the Third about? Was
Speaker 3: it that he was like deporting people without like any
Speaker 3: kind of trial. Was that like a big part of
Speaker 3: the Declaration of Independence, that like his troops were just
Speaker 3: like arresting and sending people away without any kind of
Speaker 3: due process.
Speaker 2: There do a crusade with gun, There do a gun crusade,
Speaker 2: And so actually make a lot of sense that it is.
Speaker 2: It's just so fucking embarrassing. Yeah, good for him, Good.
Speaker 3: For now The chapter ends with one final little rant
Speaker 3: about how twenty twenty is our last possible chance to
Speaker 3: prevent the collapse of the United States. You know, no
Speaker 3: more shots after this. The leftists will have taken too
Speaker 3: much control.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so it would be nice.
Speaker 3: The Pete Hegseath, who wrote American Crusade in twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: was no less committed to forcing a far right Christian
Speaker 3: theocracy on the rest of the country than the Pete
Speaker 3: of today. But he was quieter about it, not a
Speaker 3: lot quieter. But there's still even a little bit in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty more kind of creepy. You gotta put onto
Speaker 3: it so that it doesn't sound too bad, Like the
Speaker 3: far right still kind of felt like they had to
Speaker 3: respect some kinds of properly patriotic diversity, at least in public.
Speaker 3: So when it comes to the actual timeline of like
Speaker 3: when was Pete radicalized, when did he arrive at his
Speaker 3: current beliefs, and what does he actually believe beyond I
Speaker 3: should be important, that's harder for me to say.
Speaker 2: Some of the evidence there might not be much more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of his evidence, the evidence from his time
Speaker 3: in the service paints an image of a man less
Speaker 3: convinced than his present iteration of like a lot of
Speaker 3: the fascist stuff. He's gone on record about his upbringing
Speaker 3: in a Christian home, but in keeping with the traditional
Speaker 3: reborn and the spirit evangelical narrative, it's clear he doesn't
Speaker 3: consider he will now claim that like young Pete wasn't
Speaker 3: really a believer, right, not the way I am right
Speaker 3: as a kid, I wasn't really I didn't. I wasn't
Speaker 3: really committed to.
Speaker 2: Christ, you know, right, Well, it sounds like, yeah, there's
Speaker 2: a difference between growing up in a religious household and
Speaker 2: like enacting and being religious.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's more because, as we'll talk about,
Speaker 3: the evidence suggests he was very religious and always has been.
Speaker 3: It's more, if you are talking to an evangelical audience,
Speaker 3: there is an expectation that you will give your narrative
Speaker 3: of like your own personal journey to faith has to
Speaker 3: be a hero's journey. So it can't just be I've
Speaker 3: always been religious and always been great. It has to
Speaker 3: be like, no, I rejected God. I was living this
Speaker 3: a moral life of the flesh. I used to be
Speaker 3: up pill popper, tripper high rise and then lows sliding,
Speaker 3: popping heads and busting reds, kicking in doors and banging whores.
Speaker 3: But then I got a man who was hung up
Speaker 3: from my hang ups. You know, it's gotta be that
Speaker 3: kind of thing, right.
Speaker 2: It's still talk of the dome, Robert No.
Speaker 3: I stole that from the movie Margo, which I talked
Speaker 3: about a lot on.
Speaker 2: This show often. That's terrific.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful stuff.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful stuff, really really good.
Speaker 3: Pete Hegseth has claimed in a recent interview with the
Speaker 3: Nashville Christian Family that his parents were Baptist, but quote,
Speaker 3: my home life was not political, but it was very
Speaker 3: faith and family based. Now, again, this is nonsense. This
Speaker 3: is a common sentiment from people who are raised in
Speaker 3: very right wing environments that my upbringing wasn't political because
Speaker 3: conservatism is just common sense, you know, it's not politics,
Speaker 3: just common sense. It's like Christianity's not a religion. It's
Speaker 3: just the truth, right.
Speaker 2: Which I still think is more commonly accepted, like it
Speaker 2: across the board than it should be.
Speaker 3: No, and it's one thing I'll give because I have
Speaker 3: a lot of issues with my parents and the conservatism
Speaker 3: I was raised with. But they never said we were a.
Speaker 2: Politically they were are.
Speaker 3: We are very political right wingers, right. That was always
Speaker 3: my parents' attitude. So at least there's that, right. I
Speaker 3: just have no respect for this. So I wasn't political. Yeah,
Speaker 3: my parents donated exclusively to Republicans, and like, I edited
Speaker 3: a Republican newspaper in college, and we went to church
Speaker 3: three times a week. But I wasn't really religious, you know.
Speaker 3: So Pete first gave his life to Christ as a teenager,
Speaker 3: but would complain after the fact that his public school
Speaker 3: was secular, right, and kind of blamed that, like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I give him my life to Christ, but
Speaker 3: I still wasn't really Christian because of my public school. Quote,
Speaker 3: it's fair to say I had a Christian veneer, but
Speaker 3: a secular cores and thought I was ready to go
Speaker 3: out into the world and prof and profess Christ. I wasn't.
Speaker 3: And the reality is he didn't have any interest in
Speaker 3: doing that, right, Neither it is he now. But he
Speaker 3: was interested in getting rich and being successful, right, because
Speaker 3: he's a rich kid and he wanted to content. He
Speaker 3: wanted to do the thing that rich kids do, which
Speaker 3: is get into finance and get richer. Right.
Speaker 2: Barrister's what a pick I do It's so funny because
Speaker 2: like the the narrative you're describing that he wants to
Speaker 2: apply to himself, like it is kind of available to
Speaker 2: him where he, you know, like lived a whether he
Speaker 2: wants to admit it or not. A very real but yeah, right,
Speaker 2: But you'd have to be willing to stop doing that
Speaker 2: in order to have the narrative. So he's got to
Speaker 2: make one up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's got to make one up. And you
Speaker 3: know what else we have to make up? What for
Speaker 3: all of the people listening to this podcast for free
Speaker 3: by going to ads right now? You sickos, you freaks,
Speaker 3: you monsters. You I don't know, he roes. I love
Speaker 3: you and we're back. You know, every time I say
Speaker 3: I love you to the listeners, I'm thinking about one
Speaker 3: specific listener, and it might be you, you don't know.
Speaker 3: But everyone else I don't love. In fact, I hate,
Speaker 3: and I'm actively working to sabotage. But one of you,
Speaker 3: one of you I love. You're always in my thoughts.
Speaker 3: You're the only thing that I care about, you know, everything.
Speaker 2: Every time I hear you speak to your listeners, I'm
Speaker 2: reminded that uh parasocial relationship could also be based in antagonism,
Speaker 2: and it's oh, I've read the book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the bible of how to be a
Speaker 3: good podcast game gold Leaf?
Speaker 2: Did you know there's a gold Leaf like version of
Speaker 2: that book?
Speaker 3: Why it's about it?
Speaker 2: I know, I know this one.
Speaker 3: It's like him and the guy who first came up
Speaker 3: with the alpha wolf concept, just like, oh, man, I
Speaker 3: I really this thing that made me famous and noteworthy
Speaker 3: was a real mistake.
Speaker 2: This thing that made me millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 3: I fucked up. I fucked up.
Speaker 2: And then the humiliating pivot you get. Whereas the guy
Speaker 2: who wrote the game, I think, Neil Neil Strass just
Speaker 2: like we're just st gonna freaking love my wife.
Speaker 3: Yeah forget, I'm happy. Yeah, like like I just trid out.
Speaker 3: This made me miserable, and loving and respecting a woman
Speaker 3: is made me happy.
Speaker 2: I'm glad he knows he's wrong. But I'm also like, uh,
Speaker 2: stop publishing book a.
Speaker 3: Little faster, man. Maybe yeah, maybe you don't write any
Speaker 3: more books. Maybe you think I feel differently about the
Speaker 3: wolf guy, right, he really was just trying to do
Speaker 3: good wolf research and just a just a fuck up.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not his fault. Like he didn't try
Speaker 3: to be like I'm gonna make alpha wolf a thing.
Speaker 3: He was just describing wolf behavior, and weirdos ran with it.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not as familiar with his trajectory. He
Speaker 2: was literally just talking about wolves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. The concept of the alpha wolf developed
Speaker 3: from this wolf scientist who was studying wolves in captivity
Speaker 3: and describing their hierarchy. I've read, yeah, and then and
Speaker 3: then it turns out that like, actually in the wild
Speaker 3: there's like alpha wolf behavior does we don't see it
Speaker 3: because like it's not really evolutionarily beneficial. It's a thing
Speaker 3: that happens when wolves are put in an unnatural situation. Basically,
Speaker 3: it's a thing that happens in wolf prison, not in
Speaker 3: the wild. Right, And he has spent the rest of
Speaker 3: his career being like, no, the alpha will fit, Like
Speaker 3: it's wrong. It's not a concept in anything. It's certainly
Speaker 3: not a concept for humans. Like, stop talking about alpha's
Speaker 3: you dicks. It's a bummer, yeah, speaking of alpha's eth
Speaker 3: real real alpha male.
Speaker 2: Looking for this. But the day of this book, I
Speaker 2: saw a friend from college like a year ago, and
Speaker 2: I was like puting up to She's like I'm getting
Speaker 2: really into like wolf's smut, which was not the answer
Speaker 2: I was expecting.
Speaker 3: No, No, that's probably just straight up pornography.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but otherwise she was she was doing really well.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a part of it. But she
Speaker 2: she like recommended a book and I listened to it
Speaker 2: for a while, and you know, if this is your thing,
Speaker 2: go with God. But I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: there's First of all, there's so much. There's so many
Speaker 2: of them. It was one of those like the Bodyguard's
Speaker 2: Wife's Accountant type titles. I'm going to find it. Keep hegsathing,
Speaker 2: I'm going to find this. So, you know.
Speaker 3: Pete claims obviously that like, yeah, he was secular at
Speaker 3: his core, he just had a Christian veneer I have.
Speaker 3: The reality is that, you know, he's always been pretty
Speaker 3: religiously far right and politically far right, but he was
Speaker 3: as a young man just wanted money, right, Like that's
Speaker 3: all he really gave a shit about. He claims that
Speaker 3: the first thing that starts to radicalize him towards Christian nationalism.
Speaker 3: As a class he takes at Princeton on Christianity quote
Speaker 3: taught by an atheist famous for studying the Gnostic Gospels,
Speaker 3: the proph belief Jesus died was buried at a shallow
Speaker 3: grave and was eaten by dogs. I realized I was
Speaker 3: not prepared to combat such thinking, and went to the
Speaker 3: library to read dusty books that pointed to and explained
Speaker 3: the veracity of the Gospels. Defending my faith became an
Speaker 3: academic endeavor because I sensed faith in the Bible were.
Speaker 2: Good and eaten by dogs, eaten by dogs.
Speaker 3: Like, seriously, I get like, obviously, there's a very strong
Speaker 3: arge be made that, Like, well, the Jesus of the
Speaker 3: Bible was one that was probably conflating a couple of
Speaker 3: different actual guys who are like Messianic guys who claimed
Speaker 3: they were the Messiah wandering around the Holy Land in
Speaker 3: that period, right, like eaten by dogs? How would you
Speaker 3: even prove that? Why would that be an argument that
Speaker 3: a professor would make it? And it was definitely eaten
Speaker 3: by dogs.
Speaker 2: And why would this be the first we're hearing of it,
Speaker 2: that is, speaking of dogs? Though I have got the
Speaker 2: name of the wolf porn.
Speaker 3: I was, Oh, thank god, the audience has been on
Speaker 3: the edge of their fucking seats for.
Speaker 2: This, And if this is your thing, I like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to hear more about it, but I respect it.
Speaker 2: Here is the name of the book that I read,
Speaker 2: part of the Tyrant Alpha's Rejected Mate, which is one
Speaker 2: word too many, but it's got three points.
Speaker 3: It's a long title.
Speaker 2: It's got like we have similar scores on good Reads. Okay,
Speaker 2: the Air, followed by the Air apparents rejected Mate, followed
Speaker 2: by the Lone Wolf's Rejected Mate.
Speaker 3: Oh, real, rejected mate. Fetish going on? Here is what
Speaker 3: I'm reading.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about Well, what is about is like
Speaker 2: falling in love with a with a fuck ass wolf
Speaker 2: who kind of is nagging you. There's a lot that's
Speaker 2: how I would refer to, Okay, the Tyrant Delpha, but
Speaker 2: you could also easily call the Tyrant Delpha a fuck
Speaker 2: ass wolf.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, that scans. So there's no real evidence for
Speaker 3: any of what he's claiming about his fucking professor here,
Speaker 3: or the fact that you know, he starts doing serious
Speaker 3: Bible research that proves the historical I don't think he
Speaker 3: does any research. Right. Again, He's raised to believe this shit,
Speaker 3: and it like funds fuels his narcissistic sense of superiority.
Speaker 3: He's always fitt in here, right, This is just the
Speaker 3: explanation he has to give in the book because, as
Speaker 3: I stated, evangelicals expect a certain kind of narrative.
Speaker 2: That's also yeah, for lack of a better like, he
Speaker 2: needs to be not like other girls for this narrative
Speaker 2: to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And again, his initial goal is to get rich,
Speaker 3: and then the global War on Terror gets in the
Speaker 3: way and Pete winds up gravitating more towards the military.
Speaker 3: He claims, though, that during this time he spends more
Speaker 3: than a decade studying Christianity, which kind of conflates with
Speaker 3: other things he says, because he's argued in this same
Speaker 3: interview that his faith didn't become real until twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: This is when he claims that he was properly saved
Speaker 3: and born again, just in time for him to jettison
Speaker 3: the last of his Rhino credentials and hop on to
Speaker 3: the Trump train. The fact that those things happened around
Speaker 3: the same time that he's like, oh, I was saved
Speaker 3: at the same time I realized Trump was God's pick
Speaker 3: to save America. This is not really trustworthy, right, Although again,
Speaker 3: I think the thing he's lying about is he's always
Speaker 3: been this guy, right, he covered his body with Christian
Speaker 3: fascist tattoos, you know, and other fucking we the people shit,
Speaker 3: you know. Like, I don't think he's lying about being
Speaker 3: a Christian nationalist or being a fascist. I think he's
Speaker 3: lying about the fact that this was a journey, you know, right.
Speaker 2: I mean it seems like he has no issue with
Speaker 2: any of this at any point in his life. But
Speaker 2: he needs the narrative. He needs the narrative there and
Speaker 2: and I would be so curious. I feel like this
Speaker 2: happens in all sectors of public life. Of how many
Speaker 2: times you're going to keep telling the same story about
Speaker 2: yourself to keep yourself like relevant and to keep yourself
Speaker 2: kind of an underdog.
Speaker 3: Right, you always have to be an underdog, even once
Speaker 3: you've like succeeded, you know. Yeah, I mean that's a
Speaker 3: big part of my ego. Right, Nobody believed that we
Speaker 3: could have the largest history podcast on the internet, you know, No,
Speaker 3: aside from all the people who believed in me and
Speaker 3: fought for me and advocated for me and guested on
Speaker 3: the show and whatnot. Like, nobody nobody believed believes you, right,
Speaker 3: aside from most people.
Speaker 2: Right, you were, yeah, you were, you were podcasting from Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, just like prostrate on the floor. Nothing you had.
Speaker 3: Not exactly exactly I was. I was at the lowest
Speaker 3: demand can be, you know, living in an apartment on
Speaker 3: the edge of Santa Monica.
Speaker 2: So in a way you also found God in idea. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you have that in common.
Speaker 3: My God was was the pod. Uh you know, yeah, Sophie,
Speaker 3: if we register as a church, do we get to
Speaker 3: stop paying taxes?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Also strick in the book.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, I shook. All right, we're going offline. We'll
Speaker 3: talk in some more about this offline. So in like
Speaker 3: the kind of early chunk of the Trump years.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: He and his family first moved to New Jersey to
Speaker 3: attend a community church called Colt's Neck, led by pastor
Speaker 3: Chris Durkin. I found a year old YouTube video published
Speaker 3: by the church in which Pastor Dirkin reads out five
Speaker 3: ways Christian families are under attack, which proves that Christian
Speaker 3: media is always about a decade behind because they've only
Speaker 3: just discovered listicles, right, this is like twenty twenty fucking four.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Now, the video does not have a lot of views,
Speaker 3: but Dirkin is a guy that Hagstef is later going
Speaker 3: to claim was like a big influence on him, and
Speaker 3: so it's kind of worth listening to some of what
Speaker 3: he says. Uh. In a summary for the video, Durkin writes,
Speaker 3: more than any time in our lives, it feels like
Speaker 3: Christian families are under attack. Are these contemporary attacks random
Speaker 3: or is there a deeper battle going on beneath surface?
Speaker 3: He spells, they're wrong, But I'm just being petty here.
Speaker 2: Well, no, no hand is asked to him. Also, I mean,
Speaker 2: do you do have to hand it to him that
Speaker 2: he did not change his name from dark and he
Speaker 2: didn't know.
Speaker 3: And he really should have he really that's why he
Speaker 3: hasn't blown up in the way the next preacher we're
Speaker 3: going to talk about has.
Speaker 2: But should have been Gunner.
Speaker 3: I will say. The way he talks his speech is
Speaker 3: so the speech is written so similarly to how heg
Speaker 3: Seth talks. It's either just evidence of how much this
Speaker 3: guy influenced heg Seth, or maybe they shared a writer, right,
Speaker 3: I don't know, not impossible. It's also probably the case
Speaker 3: that this is more the result of Christian grievance, conservative
Speaker 3: grievance culture just being very predictable. Right. The overarching message
Speaker 3: is always that you, the good, normal people are under
Speaker 3: siege from the evil outsiders, you know, the leftists or
Speaker 3: the enemy within right. And since the chief enemy of
Speaker 3: Christianity is the devil, anyone advocating for a lifestyle different
Speaker 3: than yours is literally the devil.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: It's made very clear in this segment of the five
Speaker 3: ways Christian Families are under attack speech by Pastor Chris Derekin,
Speaker 3: which Sohi's going to play for you now.
Speaker 4: Designed by God as a gift from God, that through marriage,
Speaker 4: not only is it good because it's not good for
Speaker 4: man to be alone, that through marriage not only are
Speaker 4: we commanded to be fruitful and to multiply, but also
Speaker 4: in the New Testament, marriage is a picture of the
Speaker 4: Gospel of Jesus Christ itself, whether you're talking about God's
Speaker 4: character and plan and creation, or even talking about Jesus Christ,
Speaker 4: his life, his death is resurrection, his love for his people,
Speaker 4: his bride, the church. This is going to fill hell
Speaker 4: with all kinds of fury and it's going to be
Speaker 4: aimed at your family and.
Speaker 3: Right, the argument there he's making is that like, yeah,
Speaker 3: gay marriage, all of these different culture like it's literally
Speaker 3: the devil right, like anything anytime you urge anything outside
Speaker 3: of like what Christians believe about this, Like no, God
Speaker 3: decreed what marriage is. So you are literally on the
Speaker 3: side of Satan, right, yeah, which is you can't have
Speaker 3: a secular society with these people. You can't be free
Speaker 3: with these people in your country.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: And this is like his reality.
Speaker 2: This is baseline, This is his baseline. Theistical nature really
Speaker 2: does crack me up.
Speaker 3: I do love that it's alistical.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my college, what do they call it? The guy
Speaker 2: who talked at my college, did my commencement speaker, mister j.
Speaker 2: Leno delivered No, no, he delivered his speech in the
Speaker 2: form of a list, and that was ten years ago
Speaker 2: and it was old Laurance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good stuff. Okay, so yeah, let's so let's let's
Speaker 3: get back to this lovely stuff, this lovely, lovely esipode.
Speaker 3: So yeah. The underlying truth that is revealed by reading
Speaker 3: American Crusade is that people like Pete Hegzeth and his
Speaker 3: fellow event angelical dominionists have no desire to coexist with
Speaker 3: anyone else. That's why they have to portray this as
Speaker 3: an existential battle, because only by pretending their enemies are
Speaker 3: the same as them can they morally justify the kind
Speaker 3: of violence that they are going to try to do.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: What little fun there is in reading American Crusade comes
Speaker 3: from looking at hegxa's predictions for what will happen if
Speaker 3: the left wins in twenty twenty and comparing that to
Speaker 3: what actually happened. My favorite example of this comes right
Speaker 3: at the end of chapter two. If Trump loses in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, I fear America is doomed. The Democrats, on
Speaker 3: track to nominate a radical leftist would complete the political
Speaker 3: domination they already maintain in our culture, media, and schoolhouses.
Speaker 3: The ivory towers of the Ivy League would become the
Speaker 3: policies of Washington speech codes instead of free speech, Bye
Speaker 3: bye Second Amendment, anti Israel and pro Islamist foreign policy,
Speaker 3: naked socialism, government run everything. Yeah, that's all what happened
Speaker 3: when radical leftist Joe Biden got elected certainly embraced it,
Speaker 3: anti Israel policies.
Speaker 2: Let's just say that what in particular, fuck it sticks
Speaker 2: out like ASORTA.
Speaker 3: Well, just how immediately all of these Ivy League institutions,
Speaker 3: like most of them just caved Trump.
Speaker 2: Like you know, yeah, it's incredible, incredible well, Pete, unfortunately
Speaker 2: you didn't call that one, and I mean no, certainly
Speaker 2: is benefiting from that not having happened.
Speaker 3: Once again, we desperately wish for a Democratic party that
Speaker 3: functions the way Republicans pretend it functions. Yeah, like, how
Speaker 3: nice that would be.
Speaker 2: Radical leftists, anti Israel, radical leftists.
Speaker 3: Yeah what God oops? So again the big takeaway, the
Speaker 3: actual practical takeaway you should get from reading lines like this,
Speaker 3: is that there was never any hope for the Democratic
Speaker 3: Party to pull away modern Republicans or fracture Trump space right.
Speaker 3: That was never possible, not from Biden, not from Harris right.
Speaker 3: Any Democrat, no matter what they do, no matter how
Speaker 3: nice they try to be to conservatives, no matter how
Speaker 3: much they attacked to the middle in their politics, will
Speaker 3: always be attacked as being anti Israel and a radical
Speaker 3: leftist right. Tacking to the middle and backing that Yahoo
Speaker 3: just cabbed off people who might otherwise have voted Democrat.
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a disastrous strategy. I need to
Speaker 3: write something about this. But like part of when I
Speaker 3: knew what I started to get really worried about Harris's
Speaker 3: campaign was when she started like campaigning around with Cheney,
Speaker 3: and I could tell like, Okay, she's doing this because
Speaker 3: she she wants to get She thinks that she can
Speaker 3: get Republicans like my mom to vote for Harris. And
Speaker 3: my mom was a lifetime Republican, loved John McCain, loved
Speaker 3: Dick Cheney, loved George W. Bush, hated guns like, was
Speaker 3: fine with banning guns, was not like and so, and
Speaker 3: was very pro abortion right and so you would, I
Speaker 3: guarantee you if you would like bring up the profile
Speaker 3: of someone like my mom to Kamala Harris right or
Speaker 3: to do Biden the oh, we can get this voter,
Speaker 3: we can get this voter right. This is someone as
Speaker 3: long as you know we're not too radically left, we
Speaker 3: can speak their language and convince them. And no, you can't.
Speaker 3: My mom would have died before voting Democrat right. She
Speaker 3: would have chosen death over voting for the Democratic Party period.
Speaker 3: You know, like, there was never any chance of you
Speaker 3: getting her right. And the instant I realized they're betting
Speaker 3: on that as opposed to trying to get anyone, you know,
Speaker 3: any moderates or people further on the left, like on
Speaker 3: board with actual like policies that will help them was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: we might be in trouble here.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's yeah, something that just like
Speaker 2: another example of the right, big, far more like organized
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, than the left, is
Speaker 2: because there are people who didn't vote for Kamla because
Speaker 2: she would not move left, Like I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's just the the idea that there are good Republicans
Speaker 3: buried inside the party and we can shake them out
Speaker 3: of voting this. No, no, no, Even the people who
Speaker 3: are like good, who have more reasonable stances, who you know,
Speaker 3: had issues with Trump, what they wanted most is to
Speaker 3: win and as soon as you like like because of
Speaker 3: this is the project of twenty something thirty years of
Speaker 3: right wing media. This was what Fox News accomplished. What
Speaker 3: matters most to the majority of Republican like dedicated Republican voters,
Speaker 3: And obviously there's a sizable chunk of people who voted
Speaker 3: a Republican last election who flip flopped between and those
Speaker 3: people are reachable, which is why they flip flop so often.
Speaker 3: When we're talking about the core of the party. Their
Speaker 3: primary motivation is hurting Democrats, is hurting immigrants, is hurting
Speaker 3: the groups of people they hate, and have been taught
Speaker 3: to hate by year at this point, a couple of
Speaker 3: generations of conservative media. You know, it's it's inflicting pain
Speaker 3: on their enemies, and so you can't win them over
Speaker 3: by being like, but look, we adopted one of your policies.
Speaker 3: You know, don't you like this? Now? Aren't we better
Speaker 3: than that Trump guy? I know, because that Trump guy
Speaker 3: is promising to kick somebody, and they want to see
Speaker 3: somebody in pain. Yeah, yeah, anyway, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I reflect often on that, like that the phase of
Speaker 2: her campaign where there is a series of cam paining
Speaker 2: commercials that were encouraging women, like conservative women to vote
Speaker 2: for her behind their husband's backs. Do you remember that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just gonna offend people, Like, it's not gonna
Speaker 3: you don't. It's just just bad choices, just bad choices.
Speaker 2: I do. I do believe that there were probably voters
Speaker 2: like that, but it's like, that's not the fucking way too,
Speaker 2: and that's not gonna exactly, that's not as that's not
Speaker 2: as effective as actually moving left.
Speaker 3: Again, Like oh wow, you know this swing state has
Speaker 3: a massive number of like Muslim voters. I wonder if
Speaker 3: they'll be angry at us completely failing to reign israel
Speaker 3: In on a genocide. Probably not. They'll vote for Blue
Speaker 3: no matter who.
Speaker 2: We don't need it, of course, it's it's them who
Speaker 2: gets blamed by cool.
Speaker 3: That's not the only reason Harris lost, right, That's that
Speaker 3: explains like one state. There's a bunch of reasons, but
Speaker 3: the whole we're going we can we can get these people,
Speaker 3: you know, we can. We can break off a lot
Speaker 3: of them because they're basically reasonable people. Doesn't work because
Speaker 3: they're not. They're not. Their brains have been damaged by
Speaker 3: decades of propaganda, and the damage is permanent. Anyway, This
Speaker 3: is good vibes, good vibes, the vibes anyway. I will
Speaker 3: say there's a weird kind of comfort I get from
Speaker 3: reading Hegseth's book, not because it's less awful or even
Speaker 3: less homicidal than I'd feared, but because the it's validating.
Speaker 3: It's the conservatism I know, and it's the conservatism I
Speaker 3: was raised inside put on full display, right, and in
Speaker 3: a way that I think I really would encourage. I
Speaker 3: found the free copy of this book online. By the way,
Speaker 3: I didn't pay for it. If you just google full
Speaker 3: text free you can find it too. I don't know
Speaker 3: the legal status of this, but it's not hard to find.
Speaker 3: I want to get Democrats who think they can reach
Speaker 3: out to Republicans to read this book, because it really clearly,
Speaker 3: it really points out like why it's that attempt is
Speaker 3: so fundamentally doomed. Right Like anyway, there's another mask off moment,
Speaker 3: a useful one later in the book, when Pete has
Speaker 3: a chance to lay out the things he.
Speaker 2: Had, A useful one.
Speaker 3: A useful one, yes, Ok. Pete winds up in a
Speaker 3: passage laying out the things he admires about Islam, and
Speaker 3: this is part of he's still he's making the broader
Speaker 3: case that it's an existential threat to Americans in freedom.
Speaker 3: But he writes this, almost every single Muslim child grows
Speaker 3: up listening to and learning to read from the Koran.
Speaker 3: Contrast this with our secular American schools, in which the
Speaker 3: Bible is nowhere to be found, and you'll understand why
Speaker 3: Muslim's worldview is more coherent than ours. First off, hmm,
Speaker 3: not entirely inaccurate statement about the Muslim world, about schools
Speaker 3: in the Muslim world, Like, yeah, that describes some people,
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I guess I've just talked to
Speaker 3: more school teachers interact than Pete has, who co repeatedly
Speaker 3: that they just didn't have books anymore, and they hadn't
Speaker 3: since Saddam left.
Speaker 2: I don't think that was Pete's focus and around school teachers. Okay, So,
Speaker 2: I mean it's just more Christian fundamentalism that.
Speaker 3: Wow, they're all reading the Bible, they're all perfectly informed
Speaker 3: about their religion. They're constantly thinking about it, as opposed
Speaker 3: to like, yeah, most Muslims are like most members of
Speaker 3: any other religion where they're like, yeah, you know, on
Speaker 3: the holiday or whatever, but like, I got shit to
Speaker 3: do the rest of the time. You know, maybe I
Speaker 3: get more serious about it if I get sick or something,
Speaker 3: but like the people, yeah, they're people, right, they got
Speaker 3: other shit going on. Pete goes on to argue that
Speaker 3: the Islamic Holy books, and he describes the Islamic Holy
Speaker 3: books as being the Koran and the Hadith, if reordered
Speaker 3: and read chronologically, show in an exorable passage from peaceful
Speaker 3: writing towards violence, right, that if you reorder all of
Speaker 3: the different like the Islamic Holy texts, the Holy Books,
Speaker 3: it re ordered them to read chronologically you'll that Islam
Speaker 3: inherently moves towards violence.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and if you play the record, yeah, like
Speaker 2: there couldn't be anything more conspiratorial, Like well if you
Speaker 2: like okay, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like in this mirror Muhammad's own journey, right,
Speaker 3: because Muhammad was like a military leader, right.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: And basically the point he's making is that Islam inherently
Speaker 3: leads to violence if you follow it honestly. Now, this
Speaker 3: is interesting for a couple of reasons. For one, a
Speaker 3: few chapters earlier, when he was talking about his friend
Speaker 3: Texas Omar, he'd made a big point that Omar is
Speaker 3: a practicing Muslim and also one hundred percent American, which
Speaker 3: seems like it's not something that really should be possible
Speaker 3: based on how heg Seth describes Islam here. But he's
Speaker 3: also wrong about Islam a whole lot. Right. For one thing, again,
Speaker 3: he states that the holy books of Islam are the
Speaker 3: Koran and the Hadith. The Hadith like, it's not a
Speaker 3: it's not a title of a book, right, it's the
Speaker 3: name for a collection of sayings attributed to the prophet
Speaker 3: Muhammad over a long period of time, right, And it's
Speaker 3: not really it wouldn't be right to call it a
Speaker 3: holy book of Islam. Right, It's certainly a text holy
Speaker 3: text in Islam, but it's not really a holy book
Speaker 3: because there are holy books in the faith. Obviously, there's
Speaker 3: the Koran. There's also the Taalat, which is the Torah,
Speaker 3: and the Zabr, which is their book of Psalms, and
Speaker 3: the last of these Islamic holy books is the angel
Speaker 3: which is the New Testament. Right, these are all holy
Speaker 3: books in the Muslim faith, right, But.
Speaker 2: He forsakes three and it just adds one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and he just doesn't really understand what the
Speaker 3: hideths are that like, it's a collection of sayings. It's
Speaker 3: not really a book in the traditional sense. Discussing Islamic
Speaker 3: religious texts in a way that's accurate isn't something he
Speaker 3: can do because then you have to acknowledge it, like,
Speaker 3: oh wait, wait, the Torah is like venerated in Islam,
Speaker 3: and so is the New Testament, even though they don't
Speaker 3: believe Jesus was the Messiah. Well, then that makes the
Speaker 3: case that Islam's actually much more tolerant towards other faiths
Speaker 3: than heg Seth wants to pretend. And he goes on
Speaker 3: to note, quote, non Muslims paid a second class citizen tax,
Speaker 3: convert to Islam or were killed, whichever way they submitted,
Speaker 3: and like it is in fact true that there is
Speaker 3: a tax that non Muslims are supposed to pay and
Speaker 3: paid under the like the first Islamic empires, right, like
Speaker 3: a specific tax for being like a not a member
Speaker 3: of the faith. But also what he's leaving out here
Speaker 3: is that, like this is a pretty significantly better deal
Speaker 3: than you would get in Christendom as a non Christian.
Speaker 3: Like this is actually kind of like a big mark
Speaker 3: of the relative tolerance of Islam during the period of
Speaker 3: time where it was like this expanding empire, because once
Speaker 3: if non believers were paying their tax, they enjoyed state protection. Right,
Speaker 3: they're people of the book, and in fact there's commandments
Speaker 3: against abusing people of the book. And I'm not going
Speaker 3: to say it's perfect right, and obviously there's you do
Speaker 3: you are not an equal citizen in like these early
Speaker 3: Muslim empires if you're Jewish or Christian, but you do
Speaker 3: have rights, right, and you have a better deal than
Speaker 3: Muslims are going to get in Christendom, right, And often
Speaker 3: we just talked about how after the Crusades stalled, crusaders
Speaker 3: just massacred Jewish communities in Europe, right, Like, you were
Speaker 3: better off in a lot of cases being a Jew
Speaker 3: in these Muslim like these areas dominated by these like
Speaker 3: Islamic empires, then you would have been like in fucking
Speaker 3: somewhere in Europe, right, Like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You would always Europe.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: It's better to pay a tax and have some rights
Speaker 3: than be tortured by the inquisition.
Speaker 2: You know, not a fair ask.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Again, I'm not trying to whitewash any of these
Speaker 3: Islamic empires. They're empires. They did some pretty terrible things,
Speaker 3: like all empires do. I'm just saying, if you've got
Speaker 3: to choose between being massacred by drunk peasant crusaders in
Speaker 3: a pagram or like pay an attax, most people probably say,
Speaker 3: pay the tax. It's a better deal.
Speaker 2: I guess. It's just I mean, it's so his like
Speaker 2: binary thinking. It's every chapter so far has been like, well,
Speaker 2: here's here's what I agree with, including a I am
Speaker 2: increasingly convinced he made up.
Speaker 3: And it's also just like this whole obsession that they
Speaker 3: all have with like European history, Western history, you know,
Speaker 3: the great works of philosophy, you know, Plato and Aristotle, these,
Speaker 3: like a lot of great classic European think and Western thinkers.
Speaker 3: We only have a lot of their writing because it
Speaker 3: was preserved by Muslim scholars during the period which Christians
Speaker 3: were destroying everything that was pre Christians. So anyway, again
Speaker 3: not to whitewash any faith. All religions were all organized.
Speaker 3: Major religions, especially when they have armies, do nightmarish things,
Speaker 3: and you can find plenty of horrible crimes committed like
Speaker 3: the Honormans, you know, by the Umayids and the Opposites.
Speaker 3: But right, you know, it's just the truth of the
Speaker 3: matter is that for its day, like Islam was a
Speaker 3: much more tolerant faith than Christianity, you know, at that
Speaker 3: period of time.
Speaker 2: So which is interestingly demonstrated through the work and actions
Speaker 2: of one Pete heg Seth.
Speaker 3: Of one Peter heg Seth. Yes, so right after this
Speaker 3: paragraph he tries to do a minor mia culpa, and
Speaker 3: he winds up being both historically wrong and committing heresy.
Speaker 3: There's so much inaccurate in this next paragraph. I don't
Speaker 3: know how to summarize it. So I'm just going to
Speaker 3: read it to you. First, prior to the Life and
Speaker 3: Teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, many of these
Speaker 3: same things could have been said of the Bible in Christianity.
Speaker 3: The God of the Old Testament was violent, vengeful, and
Speaker 3: very judgmental. But a key distinction makes these two Abrahamic
Speaker 3: religions very different. The Koran has no New Testament, and
Speaker 3: he goes on to argue that the lack of a
Speaker 3: New Testament means Islam as centuries away from becoming a
Speaker 3: civilized faith. Right that, Like, well, obviously, first off, there's
Speaker 3: again there's so much wrong here. First off, he says
Speaker 3: that like prior to the Life and Teachings of Jesus,
Speaker 3: many of these things could have been said of the
Speaker 3: Bible in Christianity. But there wasn't Christianity before the Life
Speaker 3: and Teachings of Jesus in the New Testament. What do
Speaker 3: you mean prior what do you mean Christianity prior to that? Like?
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Because he does he specifically doesn't, Right,
Speaker 3: the same things could have been said of like Judaism,
Speaker 3: right that, Like, oh, before the New Testament, you know,
Speaker 3: like the God of the Old Testament was violent, judgmental,
Speaker 3: But no, he says, specifically before the life and teachings
Speaker 3: of Jesus in the New Testament, this could have been
Speaker 3: set of Christianity in the Bible, which is like, first off, again, man,
Speaker 3: you can't even get your own fucking religion right. And
Speaker 3: second again, he says that the Koran has no New Testament,
Speaker 3: and as we noted earlier, the New Testament is in
Speaker 3: fact venerated in Islam, like right, and he.
Speaker 2: Just ignored it in his list of holy because it.
Speaker 3: Was again, they don't view Jesus as the Messiah, right,
Speaker 3: they don't believe the same things about it, But like
Speaker 3: there is that is in the faith, right, Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just wrong to say that it's completely absent any point.
Speaker 2: Whether whether he actually knows this or not, it's just
Speaker 2: like it's so clear that like this book is just
Speaker 2: predicated on how poorly educated his his target audience is.
Speaker 3: And it's this very common thing with conservatives that like
Speaker 3: Islam whatever is the most radical thing you can find
Speaker 3: that was ever written by a Muslim. That's what everyone
Speaker 3: believes and does at all times, as opposed to like, no,
Speaker 3: I mean, Islam's like Christianity and other religion where like, well,
Speaker 3: you can find some awful things and people who are
Speaker 3: like and that awful thing is exactly how you should
Speaker 3: act at all times. And you can also find some
Speaker 3: stuff that's not awful, and some people who say that, like, no,
Speaker 3: the awful stuff's bullshit. You know this is in is
Speaker 3: everyone just kind of picking and choosing what to believe
Speaker 3: because it makes them more comfortable. Yes, that's what everyone
Speaker 3: does with everything, Like that's that's how human beings are,
Speaker 3: with politics, with whatever, right I.
Speaker 2: Mean personally, my holy texts are are are titles like
Speaker 2: the Tyrant Alpha's Rejected Mate, but it is interesting.
Speaker 3: Learning that is that is my religious text as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about Installment number four, His Curving No, see,
Speaker 2: I'm actually I consider that like the Gnostic Gospels, like
Speaker 2: that's that's not canon.
Speaker 3: After the we had our own Council of Nicia, which
Speaker 3: was held in Atlantic City. To be honest, we didn't
Speaker 3: really get around to deciding what was cannon we were
Speaker 3: We were mostly just partying.
Speaker 2: I'm very devout. I've I've read His Curvy Rejected Mate
Speaker 2: forty times once.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've memorized it like like like like Muslim students
Speaker 3: are supposed to memorize the Karan, yes, but like, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's there's lots of bullshit people like the common conservative
Speaker 3: belief that like yeah, you just put pigs, you know,
Speaker 3: pig fat on the bullets and then they can't go
Speaker 3: to heaven. That's not part of Islam. Like that's just
Speaker 3: you'd being racist. There's nothing that says if you you
Speaker 3: don't go to heaven, right, you're not You're even you're
Speaker 3: allowed to eat pork in Islam if you're starving, right, Like,
Speaker 3: none of these even within the text of the of
Speaker 3: the faith itself, like all of this, like during Ramadan
Speaker 3: you're supposed to fast, but there's specific exemptions for like well,
Speaker 3: if you're in a desperate situation and dying, or if
Speaker 3: you're fighting in a war, like if there's extenuating circumstances,
Speaker 3: you don't have to fast. You can eat and drink water.
Speaker 3: Because like even like during the earliest days of the faith,
Speaker 3: Mom was like, well, I don't want this to be
Speaker 3: a straight jacket, right right, Yeah, but again you can't.
Speaker 3: There's no actual understanding of like how the faith is living.
Speaker 3: It's just a bunch of like talking points that you
Speaker 3: can use to demonize these people, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's just like his whole platform depends on Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now, the wrongest part of that paragraph, and the thing
Speaker 3: that I really recognized because my dad used to make
Speaker 3: the same argument, is the idea that virtue was human
Speaker 3: beings couldn't be good before Christianity. There weren't really good
Speaker 3: people before the New Testament. It was impossible to truly
Speaker 3: be ethical, right, Like my dad would talk a lot
Speaker 3: about like, well, you know, ancient Greece and Rome were
Speaker 3: probably like the best societies possible prior to Christianity, right
Speaker 3: because they were you know, like it's this idea that
Speaker 3: like decency was invented by Christians, and people just couldn't
Speaker 3: be good before it.
Speaker 2: Yea, you could, you could be all right, that's such
Speaker 2: a weird like you know, scale to be on Like
Speaker 2: you could be okay, you could be all right, you
Speaker 2: could inch towards goodness. But it wasn't until yeah.
Speaker 3: It wasn't until Christianity that we really knew how to
Speaker 3: be good people. It just wasn't possible. And again, let's
Speaker 3: go back to those drunken peasant crusaders who just decided
Speaker 3: to massacre all the Jews in their neighborhood because they
Speaker 3: didn't have enough money for a boat to the fucking
Speaker 3: Middle East.
Speaker 2: Right, really christ like behavior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesus would have loved that. He hated his own people. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So Hegseeth attacks Islam for being quote not just a
Speaker 3: religion but also a system of governance. And I find
Speaker 3: this really interesting, and he brings out sharia law as
Speaker 3: the usual bugbear here. But the statements like this kind
Speaker 3: of lack the teeth they used to have when you
Speaker 3: live in twenty twenty five, because in the years since
Speaker 3: publishing American Crusade, Hegseeth has become a direct advocate for
Speaker 3: Christian control of the government and the supremacy of Christian
Speaker 3: religious law over the lives of Americans, even those who
Speaker 3: do not practice the faith. And he's done this. He's
Speaker 3: like talking about, like Islam's a system of government. That's wrong.
Speaker 3: Christianity also should be our system of government.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: He's done all this while complaining about the injustice. This
Speaker 3: is a big thing he winds about in later writings
Speaker 3: that because he writes another book about fucking warrior ethos
Speaker 3: shit that we'll talk about at some point. But in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, he gets like basically, I'm gonna quote
Speaker 3: from the New York Times here. He has said that
Speaker 3: he was barred from participating in the military security detail
Speaker 3: for President Biden's inauguration in twenty twenty one because of
Speaker 3: a tattoo on his chest depicting a Jerusalem cross, a
Speaker 3: religious symbol that was also a symbol used by crusaders.
Speaker 3: Reuters and others reported that his tattoos, including the deis
Speaker 3: volt motto that has been used by white supremacists, prompted
Speaker 3: a fellow service member to flag mister Hegseth as a
Speaker 3: potential insider threat. And first off, good work, fellow service member.
Speaker 3: He was probably shouldn't have that guy near fucking Joe
Speaker 3: Biden with a weapon, right, But he doesn't get fired,
Speaker 3: but he claims that, like, well, this is why I
Speaker 3: had to stop lead my military careers. I got sidelined
Speaker 3: because they called me an extremist for simply being a
Speaker 3: Christian who has the exact same tattoos as the guys
Speaker 3: who committed a series of hate crimes in Charlottesville.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sam Weird kicked him off of Wiki feet for
Speaker 2: speaking truth to power, Like you're okay, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now you know who will never get kicked off of Wiki.
Speaker 2: Feet, the products and services robot.
Speaker 3: No, they are the foundation of Wiki feet. You know,
Speaker 3: send them pictures up your feet, be nice to them.
Speaker 3: They'll love that.
Speaker 2: And don't check before you do it. Yeah, it should
Speaker 2: be a nice surprise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let it be a surprise. We're back. We're
Speaker 3: all sending feet picks to whoever sponsors the podcast. They're
Speaker 3: gonna love that. And also now, thank god, well now
Speaker 3: that we have a Trump is the presidency again. Feet
Speaker 3: picks are legal. You know that. You can use them
Speaker 3: for currency, you can use things.
Speaker 2: They can bathwater.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they count as assets if you're trying to get
Speaker 3: a mortgage. You know.
Speaker 2: I'm on wikifeet dot com. I think they have a
Speaker 2: for sure, I just had this open. I think they
Speaker 2: have a dating dot com. Everyone check out matchsouls dot com.
Speaker 3: You know that's actually that's not a bad name. That's
Speaker 3: not a bad name.
Speaker 2: You know what it was right there?
Speaker 3: You get a couple, you get it, you get some
Speaker 3: kudos for that.
Speaker 2: They've updated their interface. Anyways, Okay, sorry, get to eat
Speaker 2: Pete Heg Seth.
Speaker 3: Yeah he's Pete Seth right, So continuing, Pete Hegg Seth's
Speaker 3: book right after Uh talking about how awful Sharia law
Speaker 3: is and how Islam is evil because it's a political
Speaker 3: system as well as a religion. He writes, voting as
Speaker 3: a weapon, but it's not enough. We don't want to fight,
Speaker 3: but like our fellow Christians one thousand years ago, we
Speaker 3: must oh great again.
Speaker 2: Well, why you ain't got no alibi?
Speaker 3: That's literally what he sat. So after the twenty twenty
Speaker 3: election ended with Joe Biden winning, and if you believe
Speaker 3: Fete or Pete feet. If you believe Pete, his military
Speaker 3: career ends shortly thereafter due to anti Christian persecution. He
Speaker 3: moves his family to Tennessee, where they attend the Pilgrim
Speaker 3: Hill Reformed Fellowship, which is part of the Communion of
Speaker 3: Evangelical Churches, which is basically a denomination, right, It's like
Speaker 3: an organization for a specific denomination of weird evangelicals. And
Speaker 3: this sub denomination was founded by Idaho based pastor Doug Wilson.
Speaker 3: And if you know anything about Idaho, you know that
Speaker 3: there's no more sinister series of words in the English
Speaker 3: language than Idaho based pastor. So about a month before
Speaker 3: I put these episodes together, Politico described Doug Wilson as
Speaker 3: quote the new rights favorite pastor. He is famous for
Speaker 3: claiming that the Gospels give believers a stark choice quote
Speaker 3: Christ or chaos, and he argues that up to this point,
Speaker 3: America has choosen chaos. Quote reality is optional. That's why
Speaker 3: you have people saying that a girl can be a
Speaker 3: boy and a boy can be a girl. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I know that's how he really sounds. It's easy to
Speaker 3: see why hegseeth is drawn to this motherfucker. American Crusade
Speaker 3: is a book that advocates for Christian theocracy, and Wilson's
Speaker 3: entire career for like half a century, has been dedicated
Speaker 3: to per that Politico article, creating quote a comprehensive blueprint
Speaker 3: for a spiritual and political reformation that would transform America
Speaker 3: into a kind of Christian republic. And Wilson is the
Speaker 3: real deal. He is a serious, lifelong, committed Christian fascist.
Speaker 3: Pete is not the real deal. You know. You can
Speaker 3: call him a Johnny come lately. Not that I don't
Speaker 3: think he's a fascist, but like he is, he primarily
Speaker 3: cares about himself and his own personal advancement as opposed
Speaker 3: to the cause. Right.
Speaker 2: It's not even a positive thing. But he does care
Speaker 2: about his own bottom line more than he cares about
Speaker 2: the project of fascism. It sounds like this idahope his
Speaker 2: pastor would really put a lot on the line for fascism.
Speaker 2: But even the way that he's writing this book is
Speaker 2: he's writing to meet the moment of the amount of
Speaker 2: fascism you can get away with and still be viable
Speaker 2: at the exact time this book comes out.
Speaker 3: That is precisely what he's doing, right, which is why
Speaker 3: he's more milk toast than present Pete in some sections,
Speaker 3: because he just didn't think some of that stuff was acceptable. Right,
Speaker 3: And it's worth noting again, Wilson's written a bunch of
Speaker 3: books laying out a blueprint for how Christians should and
Speaker 3: must take over the country and dominate violently everyone else.
Speaker 3: Pete his book is not a blueprint, right, He's advocating
Speaker 3: for the same things. He's clearly supportive, even though he says,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying violence, but we also literally need to
Speaker 3: go to war, right, a literal crusade. Voting isn't enough,
Speaker 3: but also no violence, right. You know, Pete's book is
Speaker 3: not really giving a comprehensive blueprint right, because Pete is
Speaker 3: not that smart and is not a strategic thinker. It
Speaker 3: is your standard wanna be politician book right. It's meant
Speaker 3: to stake out a place for its author in the
Speaker 3: movement by saying the right schibaletes. But the writing is
Speaker 3: both lazy and shallow, and it provides no real implementation insight.
Speaker 3: It's just no ideas. It's just like Islamophobia for chapters.
Speaker 3: It is scattered in somewhat desperate signposting for like pick me,
Speaker 3: pick me, like me, like me right, Like that's what
Speaker 3: he's doing, you know. Whereas Doug Wilson has spent his
Speaker 3: whole adult life building an actual power base in Moscow, Idaho, where,
Speaker 3: per Politico quote, Wilson overseas a network of allied institutions
Speaker 3: that includes christ Church, a publishing house, a classic Christian
Speaker 3: grade school, a Christian Liberal arts college, and a ministerial
Speaker 3: training program. Beyond Moscow, the network of churches that Wilson
Speaker 3: founded in the late nineteen nineties, called the Communion of
Speaker 3: Reformed Evangelical Churches or CREC, has grown to include over
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty congregations across four continents. An association
Speaker 3: of classical Christian schools that Wilson co founded in nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety three now counts over five hundred member schools across
Speaker 3: the country.
Speaker 2: Hot. Okay, So he's so he's an effective.
Speaker 3: He is an effective building and again not just in
Speaker 3: it for himself and his own birth, like in it
Speaker 3: to build a movement.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: He's very different from Pete. I would be shocked if
Speaker 3: he really likes to respects the guy. But he's also
Speaker 3: very smart. He knows how to use a guy like Pete. Right,
Speaker 3: And he's you know the fact that he before he
Speaker 3: became the sec deaf, was seeing that this guy had
Speaker 3: had the potential to go somewhere if Trump won again,
Speaker 3: because like you know, especially after Trump got out, he
Speaker 3: really gravitated to the people who were just complete toadies
Speaker 3: and lickspittles, right.
Speaker 2: And for this exact kind of guy exactly.
Speaker 3: And Wilson was smart enough to be like, this guy
Speaker 3: might go somewhere. I should start getting in good with him, right,
Speaker 3: And Wilson, this, this guy is so committed. Even during
Speaker 3: the period of time in which evangelical like Christian nationalist
Speaker 3: figures had to pretend they weren't, he would openly preach
Speaker 3: his support for a theocracy. He has refused for years
Speaker 3: to refer to the Civil War as anything but the
Speaker 3: war between the States, and has described his personal politics
Speaker 3: as slightly to the right of Jeb Stewart, a Confederate general.
Speaker 2: Great cool, awesome, yardstick.
Speaker 3: A nice stuff. So while head Seth was, by his
Speaker 3: own admission, squishy for most of his adult life, Wilson
Speaker 3: has been a howling committed fascist for decades. My interpretation
Speaker 3: of their relationship behind the scenes is that Wilson recognized
Speaker 3: hag Seth as a useful person who was desperate for
Speaker 3: a place in the movement, and Wilson was happy to
Speaker 3: give him that in exchange for having a future Secretary
Speaker 3: of Defense on his side. We see the kind of
Speaker 3: desperation Pete had to be involved with and feel like
Speaker 3: a part of this movement despite his belated entrants in
Speaker 3: chapter eight of his stupid book Secularism Deporting God from America,
Speaker 3: which opens with the stunning paragraph Wow, what after deal?
Speaker 3: After the election of Donald Trump in twenty sixteen, one
Speaker 3: of the most powerful things to happen to our country
Speaker 3: and to me was the Christian conversion of the rapper
Speaker 3: Kanye West Wait the conversion of a rapper was a
Speaker 3: powerful movement in America in my life, yes it was.
Speaker 3: At first, like many others, I was skeptical of his authenticity.
Speaker 3: Is this a PR stunt? But when I watched Kanye
Speaker 3: live and listen to his songs, I was convinced he
Speaker 3: loves Jesus and wants to share him with the world.
Speaker 3: Even better, he went all in, not content to live
Speaker 3: a private life of faith in order to protect his
Speaker 3: iconic image. What a shot of adrenaline for the home team.
Speaker 3: If Kanye is with us, who can be against us.
Speaker 3: Kanye is a changed man, but not a perfect man.
Speaker 3: As often happens throughout history and in our country, the
Speaker 3: imperfect people become the best messagers. I should note that
Speaker 3: this was five years before Kanye would release his new
Speaker 3: hit song Hyle Hitler.
Speaker 2: Wow called it, called it, and he's now going by
Speaker 2: ya ya yay, yes, no, no, no ya ya he
Speaker 2: changed it again.
Speaker 3: Oh I missed that update, thank you, So.
Speaker 2: I stopped keeping that. That was funny. That was.
Speaker 3: Kanye is on he can't lose, He'll never lose his mind.
Speaker 2: Well, which arguably like he already had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, no, he's very.
Speaker 2: He was an active crisis. Well, uh cool, so we've
Speaker 2: got ever Clear and Kanye West.
Speaker 3: Ye, Kanye West, God my two heroes.
Speaker 2: You know wow talk about building a coalition.
Speaker 3: And putting together a team.
Speaker 1: My favorite part of that quoes when he said here
Speaker 1: he what he when he's talking about how like he
Speaker 1: he went, all.
Speaker 2: Really do it? And You're like, yes, you're not broken, clock,
Speaker 2: You're right.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we get another example after this of how
Speaker 3: inconsistent Pete's own account of his own past is. Hag
Speaker 3: Seth tries to draw comparison between kanye upbringing, which he
Speaker 3: describes as rooted in good Christian values, in his own
Speaker 3: claiming that faith in Jesus was front and center in
Speaker 3: his childhood upbringing, which is the opposite of the claim
Speaker 3: he's made more recently in that Christian magazine. Now we
Speaker 3: can look at the actual things Pete claimed and say, dude,
Speaker 3: you were always raised to be the guy you are.
Speaker 3: At no point did secular society step in to force
Speaker 3: you to stop being religious. At no point did you
Speaker 3: have anything but like complete support for being the kind
Speaker 3: of right wing Christian nationalist weirdo that you are from
Speaker 3: our society.
Speaker 2: But it's like he's he's so committed to this conception
Speaker 2: he has of himself. Yeah, but the more we talk
Speaker 2: about it, the more I'm like, you know what you're described.
Speaker 2: It's like technically less compelling, but it makes him seem
Speaker 2: more competent than he is of like I was like
Speaker 2: born to occupy this role. I feel like that is
Speaker 2: an equally compelling narrative that he's just too insecure to
Speaker 2: even admit. Right, Yeah, like I was born to be
Speaker 2: a far right like yeah fails sun that rises the
Speaker 2: power that seems to be true?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yes, that is like you were crafted
Speaker 3: in a lab to be this exact shithead. Yes, and
Speaker 3: nothing about our society did anything but encourage it. So
Speaker 3: in the next segment of the book, he claims to
Speaker 3: be self aware of his sinful nature, and he says this,
Speaker 3: without knowing, fearing, and recognizing God, I would be like
Speaker 3: a ship lost at sea, wrecked and sunk. You get
Speaker 3: wrecked plenty as it is, buddy, And trust me, I
Speaker 3: have almost been sunk more times than I can admit
Speaker 3: on these pages. Yeah you have. I've only seen forty
Speaker 3: short years on this earth, and I've been divorced twice,
Speaker 3: almost gone bankrupt once and been deployed with a bunch
Speaker 3: of toxically max feel and dudes thrice one tour of
Speaker 3: one tour of which included a war crimes controversy.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, he's so controversy. He's so oppressed, you
Speaker 2: guysse about it. I think, you know, really brave of
Speaker 2: him to call the American military toxic masculine.
Speaker 3: I think he may. He's making fun of the left here, right,
Speaker 3: Like that's the point of it. But it's also very
Speaker 3: fun to be like, yeah, there was a war crimes controversy. Like, dude,
Speaker 3: per your own claims to the New Yorker, you complained
Speaker 3: that you were scared your unit was going to commit
Speaker 3: war crimes.
Speaker 2: Well two nine. Pete can't come to the phone, right,
Speaker 2: Yeah he can.
Speaker 3: Also, he notes in this that there's there's too much
Speaker 3: to write about in terms of his like sins and failings.
Speaker 3: He can't. I can't actually go into all that detail,
Speaker 3: right Like.
Speaker 2: Well, legally, yeah, he probably can't.
Speaker 3: Legally he shouldn't, but we can, Jay Jimmy Loftus, we
Speaker 3: absolutely can. Yeah, So let's talk about the allegations against
Speaker 3: Pete hag seth are sexual assault. We've already heard about
Speaker 3: all of his drinking and carousing and spending the money
Speaker 3: from his different charities in order to party and pursue women,
Speaker 3: and repeated claims in that whistleblower report that he and
Speaker 3: others sexually harassed women who worked for the orgs that
Speaker 3: he was at. Now, that all existed prior to Pete's,
Speaker 3: you know, getting nominated to be the Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 3: But then once it became clear that he was Trump's
Speaker 3: pick for sec def, a new set of allegations kind
Speaker 3: of hit the public. And these these went back to
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen when Pete Hegseeth was at a hotel for
Speaker 3: like a I think it was like some sort of
Speaker 3: a work conference. It was a Republican women's conference. And
Speaker 3: he met, yes, he did, he did. He met a
Speaker 3: woman known as you know, Jane Doe for you know,
Speaker 3: legal obvious purposes. He met this Jane Doe at the
Speaker 3: conference and they talked. Other people who were there were
Speaker 3: call them having a loud argument at one point, and
Speaker 3: it's kind of unclear like precisely what happened, but they
Speaker 3: were both drinking. They had a loud argument around one
Speaker 3: thirty am, which prompted an employee to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: you guys need to like quiet down, and heg Seth
Speaker 3: responded by cursing at the employee and saying I got
Speaker 3: freedom speach, and then the.
Speaker 2: James Patriot even at his slowest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then per npr Dough then intervened, telling the
Speaker 3: employee that they were Republicans and apologized for heg Seth's behavior. Right,
Speaker 3: I love I love it.
Speaker 2: That's the shorthand for a drunken argument. And no, no, no, no, officer,
Speaker 2: you don't understand. We're Republicans. We're supposed to act this way.
Speaker 3: And because of the lawsuit that comes later, we have
Speaker 3: this woman's texts from that night, and some of them
Speaker 3: she like one of them. She says he wears a
Speaker 3: ring on his pointer finger. It creeps me out. Like
Speaker 3: these messages, they're pretty There's one. I'm just gonna read
Speaker 3: the message chain. Do you know Pete Hegseeth? She asks,
Speaker 3: name sounds familiar. Who is he? He's a Fox contributor.
Speaker 3: I guess he does Outnumbered and Fox and Friends. Anyway,
Speaker 3: our ladies are freaking drooling over him. Oh okay, he
Speaker 3: is TDB light Mini TDB. Oh you mean the man
Speaker 3: who tried to have sex with my wife. Not a
Speaker 3: good first impression for Pete, right, So they're talking about like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this guy's a he's trying to like fuck everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and she says that he creeps him out. Later in
Speaker 3: the evening, Doe told investigators that she saw heg Seth
Speaker 3: rubbing women's legs and quote giving off a creeper vibe.
Speaker 3: She recalls because she is drinking too. She recalls that
Speaker 3: the argument that they had was that she got angry
Speaker 3: at him for repeatedly touching women at the conference, and
Speaker 3: so they have this loud argument and Doe remembers heg
Speaker 3: Seth saying I'm a nice guy. I'm a nice guy.
Speaker 3: And then quote from NPR, Doe said that the next
Speaker 3: memory she had was when she was in an unknown room.
Speaker 3: This is from the police report. Doe did not know
Speaker 3: where she was or how she got to the room.
Speaker 3: Heg Seth was in the room with her, so this
Speaker 3: is she blacks out. Presumably I think she had it.
Speaker 3: I believe she had a talk screen because she goes
Speaker 3: to the police, but I don't know. It may not
Speaker 3: have been soon enough that would have shown if there
Speaker 3: was something else in her drink, but you know, blacking
Speaker 3: out is anyway. She winds up.
Speaker 2: Refer to Pete's previous writing on the subject.
Speaker 3: And she she says, I do recall saying no to
Speaker 3: him repeatedly, right, And you know, she eventually files a
Speaker 3: sexual assault claim against him, right, that he sexually assaulted her. Right.
Speaker 3: He maintains that any physical interaction was consensual. I wouldn't
Speaker 3: be surprised if he was blacked out too, given his
Speaker 3: own Like, I don't know what memory Pete actually has
Speaker 3: of this. But ultimately, the police do not wind up
Speaker 3: prosecuting this because they say they don't have enough evidence
Speaker 3: to go on, and hag Seth settles out of court
Speaker 3: with her in a civil suit. He pays her fifty
Speaker 3: thousand dollars as part of a and makes her sign
Speaker 3: a confidentiality agreement. It's just like perdocuments obtained by CNN.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just fucking vile. I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: surprising at all that it didn't move forward, but the
Speaker 2: fact that it went far enough that she had to
Speaker 2: submit her text. I mean, were there like kids done
Speaker 2: or anything like that, Like I that's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think like I think by the time
Speaker 3: because she didn't initially want to report it at all,
Speaker 3: Like it's the case it often takes long enough that
Speaker 3: like you don't get as early as you need for
Speaker 3: that kind of screens. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I read a really interesting book. I was just randomly
Speaker 2: recommend it, but I just finished it last week called
Speaker 2: The Secret I think it's called The Secret History of
Speaker 2: the Rave Kit, and it's really good of just like
Speaker 2: how how much technology there is there that is just
Speaker 2: not used. But in any case, that's I mean not
Speaker 2: surprising at all that they didn't move forward with the case,
Speaker 2: but just the idea of like, well, what does constitute
Speaker 2: enough enough evidence quote unquote, like and I know it
Speaker 2: varies from state to state too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it does. And I got to read in
Speaker 3: terms of because again Pete makes the statement that like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was a bad guy, but like he's he's basically
Speaker 3: pretending and like the bad stuff is I wasn't enough
Speaker 3: of an outright fascist, right, Like yeah, that's like mostly
Speaker 3: the kind of claim that he's making is that like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I imperfect because like I wasn't as big a piece
Speaker 3: of shit as I am today. As a result of that,
Speaker 3: as a result of Pete being like you know I've
Speaker 3: almost been sunk more times than I can admit on
Speaker 3: these pages. I want to read one more quote about
Speaker 3: some of the sins that Pete leaves awe out in
Speaker 3: his Mia culpa. Okay, this is from The New Yorker's
Speaker 3: article Pete heg Seth's Secret History. Hag Seth appeared in
Speaker 3: October twenty seventeen as a dinner speaker at the California
Speaker 3: Federation of Republican Women's fortieth Biennial Convention in Monterey, California.
Speaker 3: His personal life was in tumult. In twenty ten, he
Speaker 3: had married a second time to Samantha Dering, a coworker
Speaker 3: at That's for Freedom. He admitted in an essay that
Speaker 3: year that he had fathered a child out of wedlock
Speaker 3: before marrying her. At The Times reported then in August
Speaker 3: of twenty seventeen, Well, still married to Deering, he fathered
Speaker 3: a daughter with another woman, a producer at Fox, Jennifer Rausche,
Speaker 3: who he eventually married in twenty nineteen. As he Endearing
Speaker 3: wrangled their way through a difficult as The Times first reported,
Speaker 3: his mother, Penelope Hegxeth, sent him an email excoriating him
Speaker 3: as an abuser of women. Who belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around,
Speaker 3: and uses women for his own power and ego. She
Speaker 3: admonished him get some help and take an honest look
Speaker 3: at yourself. That say his mom.
Speaker 2: Oh my, well that's what I call good business consulting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's oh my god, I mean that's his fucking mother,
Speaker 3: like Jesus nic anyway. Yeah, I just love it when
Speaker 3: he's like, oh, you know, I'm imperfect, but God uses
Speaker 3: imperfect people. It sounds a lot better than like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm a real fucking piece of shit, Like I am
Speaker 3: a gigantic who does not at all live consistently with
Speaker 3: my stated values. I violate every rule God set for
Speaker 3: human beings.
Speaker 2: On a weekly basis, on.
Speaker 3: A constant basis.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is interesting, like he's presenting like even as
Speaker 2: like a piece of effective propaganda. This bo is a
Speaker 2: fair because it's so inconsistent with like who does he
Speaker 2: want to be perceived as? You know, like it just
Speaker 2: seems like he'll say he'll switch the narrative from moment
Speaker 2: to moment depending on what is the most effective thing here,
Speaker 2: what are you going to like the most? What makes
Speaker 2: me look the coolest? Which varies from chapter to chapter,
Speaker 2: like in this he's a wounded bird who had to like,
Speaker 2: and then another one's he's a born warrior because Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: like that slid out of his mouth.
Speaker 3: You know, it's just uh, it's awesome. It's good shit, it's.
Speaker 2: The yeah, the allegation together, it's like even, I mean,
Speaker 2: and that's unfortunately, is like a pretty standard allegation for
Speaker 2: a guy like this. And of course it's just like
Speaker 2: means nothing not to mention the civilian jets. I like, well,
Speaker 2: this guy rocks.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna wrap up here. The second to the
Speaker 3: last chapter, though, I should note is chapter thirteen is
Speaker 3: called the front Lines Education in Israel, and it's ninety
Speaker 3: percent of it is about how evil the education system is.
Speaker 3: Pete is like, you can't send your kids to colleges
Speaker 3: because you're fun the enemy. You should destroy literally burn
Speaker 3: your own like graduation certificate or whatever, like, and he
Speaker 3: goes he will later, he doesn't do it. Now. He
Speaker 3: says like, oh, I'm going to destroy my diplomas from
Speaker 3: Princeton Anne Harvard right as a protest, which he does.
Speaker 3: He destroys. He claims to have mailed sent back his
Speaker 3: Harvard diploma years later as a result of woke. But like,
Speaker 3: he doesn't actually do that immediately. I don't know that
Speaker 3: he actually did that at all. It might just be.
Speaker 2: That story is Israel as omar from Texas, as far
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned.
Speaker 3: After complaining that like college is evil, because this is
Speaker 3: the whole theme of this chapter, is that like college
Speaker 3: is evil because of what it makes Americans think about Israel.
Speaker 3: So after several pages of branding about colleges, he writes,
Speaker 3: you might ask, what in the world does the state
Speaker 3: of Israel have to do with any of this? I
Speaker 3: live in the United States. Why is Israel the front line?
Speaker 3: And of course the answer to that is that Israel
Speaker 3: is quote central to the story of Western civilization, of
Speaker 3: which America is the greatest manifestation. Pete advises everyone to
Speaker 3: watch a bunch of prigger you videos about Israel's history,
Speaker 3: and then goes through summarizes Israeli history and like a
Speaker 3: page and neatly leaves out the Palestinians completely right, Like
Speaker 3: there's just nobody there. It's like that's not a factor
Speaker 3: in the story at all. It He celebrates the beautiful
Speaker 3: army Israel has and talks about their unmatched standard of living,
Speaker 3: something that might surprise people in Gaza and says that
Speaker 3: because Israel is such a great place to live, that's
Speaker 3: why American crusaders have to fight for it as strongly
Speaker 3: as they fight for the United States. Pete ends the
Speaker 3: chapter with these lines, with the front lines identified, Let's
Speaker 3: put a full on American crusade into action. And the
Speaker 3: last chapter is just titled make the Crusade Great Again.
Speaker 3: It's not really it's just a rehash of shit he
Speaker 3: said previously in the book. This chapter is not necessary
Speaker 3: and it's not really worth getting into other than this
Speaker 3: line near the end. The American crusade can be one,
Speaker 3: but not through negotiation. Stale thinking and bipartisan consensus have
Speaker 3: betrayed us. This moment requires a total commitment to victory,
Speaker 3: which includes co opting the successful tactics the left has
Speaker 3: used for years. We must be smart, tough, proactive, and bold. Anyway,
Speaker 3: that's Pete in his stupid book. I hope everyone had.
Speaker 2: A week going going out on a chapter at Israel.
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't expect better, but Jesus fucking And
Speaker 2: then he wrote another book called The War on Warriors.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that one day. That's his
Speaker 3: book about Yeah, how America like we don't make people
Speaker 3: want to be violent enough, right, like we we shamelan
Speaker 3: for killing and stuff and like yeah, it's just it's
Speaker 3: just we'll get into it one of these days. But no,
Speaker 3: rush rushay not.
Speaker 2: I fucking hated every second of that.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, so so an average episode.
Speaker 3: There a normal episode of Behind the Bastards. Yes, this
Speaker 3: was meant to be like an easier week for me,
Speaker 3: but I still wound up having to do a bunch
Speaker 3: of research because God, there's just you can't just not
Speaker 3: talk about the reality of Pete when you're looking at
Speaker 3: like what he claims about himself.
Speaker 2: No, because I mean one thing I was I mean
Speaker 2: not necessarily surprised about. But there's so many approaches to
Speaker 2: this kind of book and he approaches and I wonder
Speaker 2: how much of it is just legal But like he
Speaker 2: says stunningly little about himself while also presenting no ideas.
Speaker 2: It's really just racism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just racism. And you know, like callow self interest, right,
Speaker 3: he wants to be a big man, an important man.
Speaker 3: That's all that really matters.
Speaker 2: Look at the cover. Yeah, I was like, you could
Speaker 2: kind of like glean the contents of the book by
Speaker 2: looking at the cover. It's a book by a deeply
Speaker 2: insecure man who's about to get an undue amount of power.
Speaker 3: Right. Ah, God, we love it when deeply insecure men
Speaker 3: get great amounts of power that they absolutely are not
Speaker 3: prepared to wield.
Speaker 2: It's the American tradition.
Speaker 3: It's the American tradition. So go out take power for
Speaker 3: yourself and then get corrupt and you know, destroy huge
Speaker 3: swaths of the human race. You know, that's my challenge
Speaker 3: to all of you listeners. Go take power somewhere in
Speaker 3: the world, become corrupted by it, and you know, send
Speaker 3: us further down the slalom to complete collapse.
Speaker 2: And I'll all say, is Michigan, don't believe what you've heard.
Speaker 2: I'm a good person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let her into your corner store hand or
Speaker 3: an acts. It's safe.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you could and you would be fine.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely safe. For sure.
Speaker 2: I hope to be welcomed in your borders and in
Speaker 2: due time, but I understand the healing is only just begun.
Speaker 3: That's right. Well, you got anything to plug?
Speaker 2: Yes, I should plug my Cool Zone Media Podcast, sixteenth
Speaker 2: minute We are currently on hiatus, but it is a
Speaker 2: weekly podcast in which I talk to and reflect on
Speaker 2: the main characters of the inner, catch up with them
Speaker 2: years later, and uh talk about how how broken the
Speaker 2: Internet has made us. Check that out. Check out my
Speaker 2: book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about Hot Dogs and
Speaker 2: in paperback now so it doesn't cost as much money,
Speaker 2: or just get it from the library or honestly even
Speaker 2: steal it. It's fine. I don't think I'm going to
Speaker 2: get any royalties. Yeah, and yeah, that's what I get.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you are royalty, Jamie, Queen of podcasts.
Speaker 2: That's way better than what you usually call me, which
Speaker 2: is a murderer. So I'll take it.
Speaker 3: Look name a queen. It wasn't a murderer, Jamie.
Speaker 2: That's so true. Okay, I take it back, I take it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, everybody, I Love you.
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