WEBVTT - Gathering Intelligence 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.360 Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.720 Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.240 sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.960 weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:17.040 Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio appo. If you 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.880 thought more hours a day, minutes a week was enough, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.799 think again. He's the last remnants of the old Republic, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.280 a sole fashion of fairness. He treats crackheads in the 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.240 ghetto cutter the same as the rich pill poppers in 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.680 the penthouse, to clearinghouse of hot takes, break free for 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.000 something special. The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:46.280 now in the ale everywhere, back at it again. Another 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:50.280 weekend is upon us. This a spinoff of The Ben 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.720 Maller Show heard overnights as you know on Fox Sports Radio, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.440 and we do this every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.520 is the Friday Podcast And doesn't matter whether you're in 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.960 the country club or the trailer park, we are here 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.320 for you. On the fifth Hour, David Gascon is with us. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:16.120 Yes for the four O five ras shown that a 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.160 cool up I got some raving news. A couple of 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.160 days ago before Opening Day in Major League Baseball, that 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.720 we have eclipsed the highest downloaded numbers ever in the 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.399 history of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller. And also 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.240 the last two or three episodes were higher than any 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:39.640 show you have broadcasted on live radio over the last 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.720 year and a half. How about that? How about them apples? 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.800 We actually have a live audience. Yeah, but they're not 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:48.560 really alive. They're live, but they're not alive attack. I 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.840 mean when they have syringes in their arms or when 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:55.840 they're intoxicated from alcohol. It doesn't really count that we're here. Again, 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.280 you're not proving you and I are an elitist loo user. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.080 This could be like this is like Gretzky Curry Magic, 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.480 Kareem hers Scheizer's sosha, like this is a good combination. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.079 No it's not, but I listen, I I I'm willing 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.880 to hang out with the Hillbillies and the Hoi POLLOI 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:16.799 and all that. And you can hang out and have 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.680 cocktails at the at the bar with all the elites. Uh, 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:28.120 that's fine. I am a proud Neanderthal. Anyway, Well, this 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.640 is not about us. We will delve into the tremendously 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:36.040 exciting news about the downloads, which we're probably jinks will 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.480 go back to zero now, but we we we will 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.000 welcome in right now. Guy who I've been an admirer. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.480 I've read his his work for many many years. He's 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.920 bounced all over the place. His name is Michael McCarthy. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.480 He's a sports business guy. He's a senior writer at 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.520 Front Office Sports dot com. You should check it out. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.799 It's not one of the big corporate run websites. It's 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.639 a start up Front Office sports dot com. If you're 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.360 into the business of sports. Uh. They do a lot 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.000 of good stuff at that website. But Michael McCarthy has 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.239 been around. He's worked at the The New York Times, 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.359 He's had by lines at the New York Times, Sports 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.799 Illustrated us A Today. He's done work for CNBC, The 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:20.200 Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated. He has been all over 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.639 the map. He's even done some teaching. Uh. And I'm 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.600 sure that will be brought up here at some point. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:30.560 But let's get into the business of sport. An interesting 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:36.120 conversation on tap here. As sports and television and media 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:41.160 are embedded together, we've certainly learned that more and more 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.520 over the last year with it not mattering that fans 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.880 are actually at the games are not and the television 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.040 money continue to come in. But welcome in, Michael, thank 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.920 you for spending some time with us. So the NFL 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.160 is the king. It keeps the lights on in these parts, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:03:59.760 we like to say. So let's start with the n 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.560 f L. And you wrote that. Roger wrote recently, Roger 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:06.280 Udell wants the NFL to generate twenty seven billion dollars 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:12.680 in annual revenue. By It's an amazing number, twenty seven 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:18.679 billion dollars. Obviously, so Michael explained to me how that's 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:24.720 actually gonna work. Okay, yeah, Well, I mean the big 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.320 uh money maker for the NFL is obviously TV rights. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.159 I mean, if you look at their recent TV deals, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.320 they're getting something like, you know, four hundred and fifteen billion, uh, 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.480 you know, just right off the bat. And they have 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.640 the ability to pull out of the deal after seven 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.360 years of gambling takes off and go back to the 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.520 table too. I think his international expansion. I fully believe 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.120 there will be a team in London, in Mexico City, uh, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.920 in an international market for the next five years. You 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.280 better believe the NFL looks obviously at how well the 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.000 NBA and will BE have done overseas, and they want 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.360 some of that for themselves. So do you think they'll 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.120 be expansion teams, They're gonna go to thirty four teams, 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.440 or they're just going to relocate a couple of teams 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.040 that are currently in American cities. It's a great question. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.200 It's tb D. I think it's fifty fifty. I mean, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.080 you know, I could see a team like Jacksonville, which 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.880 already has a huge fan base in London. Uh, and 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.000 I think that was on purpose, uh, you know, being 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.680 transferred over there. I could also see them expanding. What 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.320 do I think about the NFL that I've always liked 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.400 is they do not sit on their laurels. I mean 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.280 like going to seventeen games. I mean, can you imagine 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.320 that in baseball below? Oh my god, what will the 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.560 throw of the record books? Doesn't care like seventeen games? Yeah, sure, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.200 but just you know, throughout the old record book, I 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.800 thought of no One. Yeah, and Michael I. I am 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.520 casual friends with Fred Dryer and he told me when 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.640 he played in the NFL back in the seventies and 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.320 the ease that the owners then wanted an eighteen game schedule. 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.760 They they were very passionate about that. And that's over 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.520 forty years ago when that was going on. So isn't 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.160 this just a temporary stop to eighteen games? Like that, 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.560 we're at seventeen for X number of years, But the 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.640 goal is to get to eighteen, correct. I think I 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:24.480 totally agree with you. I think the goal is to 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.720 get to eighteen. And I think you know, who knows 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:28.480 what the goal will be ten years from now. I mean, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.080 there was one famous NFL g M who said, you know, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.440 where the ranchers, you're the cattle. Uh. And you know 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.480 they may say whatever they want publicly, but you know, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.760 two billionaires, they're still the ranchers and the players are 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.320 still the cattle. Yeah and yeah, I mean, I'll go 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.880 back to what you said. With the possible expansion to 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.719 the NFL. It's it's an odd deal because we've established 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.160 like there's a certain number, there's this Goldilocks zone of 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.240 teams that you can only have a finite amount of 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.640 teams in any of these sports leagues. The NFL's got 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.160 thirty two, Baseball has got thirty. Uh, it's like right 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.360 around that number. But if we were to come back, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.760 you know, two hundred years from now and say sports 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.720 is still around in society, is the same relatively, how 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.480 many teams do you think there would be? I mean 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.080 they've been in that area between twenty thirty two, right 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.680 around there for a while. Would we see forty five 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.920 fifty teams? I mean, how high giving him go before 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.920 it becomes problematic? I think I think you could easily go, uh, 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.800 you know, forty teams. Uh. You know, we're talking about 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.240 a country that's now over three million people, you know, 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:44.200 a country which is you know, changing demographically, changing racially. 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.720 You know, millions upon millions of American citizens are on 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.960 the move, creating new suburbs of new mega lot polus 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.120 is all over the place. Uh So I mean you 0:07:55.240 --> 0:08:00.280 fold the population. Uh. You know, remember about end of 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.640 fifteen years ago doing a story for the USA Today, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.400 they sent me out to Las Vegas to do a 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:11.000 what if story? Like what if sports ever gave up 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.960 their opposition into gambling? Could sports ever come to Las Vegas? 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.640 And it's like that, I think about it, and that 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.000 story is a joke, of course, it has you know 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.080 what I mean? And you know, you go to the 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.200 NFL team the NFL stay to you with the NHL 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.120 and everything else. So yeah, I mean I think the 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.920 sky the women. Yeah, and uh, I didn't want to 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.120 talk to you. I know you've written some about Al 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.840 Michaels and the NBC and just the Drew Brees move 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.800 and how that all relates. But you know everything that 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.760 I've been hearing and reading from guys like yourself there, 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.800 it certainly sounds like NBC is planning to, shall I say, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:53.040 force Al Michaels out after the upcoming season. And if 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.480 that is accurate, let's start with that. Is that, if 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.160 that's accurate, is this Al's decision or is he gonna 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.360 go work somewhere else? Wison called NFL games. Uh hey, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.760 I don't think that's accurate. Al's contract goes through the 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.199 two thousand and twenty two Super Bowl in Los Angeles. Um, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.719 and it could uh all be very amicable. You know, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.920 Al is seventy six, seventy seventies old. You might just 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.800 decide like Dick Stockin did this week, to say, Okay, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.120 I'm gonna hang up my cleats and hang up my microphone. However, 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.719 I think the idea of them forcing Al Michael's out 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.520 is a bit overblown. I think, you know, it would 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.719 have to be a decision that Al goes along with, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.520 or Al could just pick up his chips and move 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.720 to another network. I mean, you've got ESPN and ABC 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.760 sitting there in the Super Bowl rotation. Al would look 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.760 pretty good in one of those yellow canary yellow ABC 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.839 blazers when they do the Super Bowl. NBC would have 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.920 to make that decision to be a throwback, absolutely, But 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.320 they have brought in Drew Breese and the You don't 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.000 bring in a guy like that unless you think that 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.640 he's going to be with Obviously he's the analyst. So 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.600 does that mean Chris Collinsworth is got one foot out 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.160 the door? Yeah? Yeah, Really, we're talking about two different things. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.439 I mean, Mike Tariko is obviously the heir apparent to 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.280 Al Michaels, just like he was the heir apparent to 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.559 Bob Costas. You know, whether that happens after the next 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.920 Super Bowl or not, But Mike Tarrico will eventually call 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.840 UH Sunday Night Football. The Drew Brees question, I think 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.080 it's more immediate about Chris Collinsworth because you know Drew 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.720 Brees is going to come in, as you know, play 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.439 by a game analyst on Notre Dame and a studio analyst, 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.040 and he could replace Chris Collinsworth. So what we could 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.640 be looking at within a couple of years is an 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:54.560 al Michael's Chris Collinsworth booth go into a Mike Tarriko. Uh. Yeah. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.679 The question about Breezes. Everybody assumes he's gonna be great, right, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.520 Tony Romo was great? Great? Now it doesn't work that way. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.480 There's tons of ex athletes and ex coaches who flopped 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.040 on TV. I give you Emmett Smith, and you know, 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.760 Joe Montana and a bunch of others. So there's no 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.920 guarantee that Drew Brees is gonna be great. And if 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.760 he isn't great, don't just keep Collinsworth. Yeah, And I 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.920 always bring this up on my My Overnight show, Michael, 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.400 the quote from Howard Cosell about the jock ocracy of 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.280 sports television, And if Howard was still around today, oh 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.760 my god, his head would explode from all that. It's 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.680 only gotten more pronounced over the years with guys walking 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.640 off the field into TV jypt. But Breeze already had 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.959 this lined up a couple of years ago with the 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.480 Saints he seems. Now, if you were betting man, Michael, 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:47.880 you cover this stuff and you've done this for a 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:49.160 long time to do a great job. But if you 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.240 were a betting man, would you bet that Breeze is 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.559 good or bad? I think he's gonna be kind of 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.200 mediocre because he comes across to me is just too polite. 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:58.920 I think you've got to have a little edge to 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.559 you to be good at that. Yeah, I mean just 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.120 an interviews and being on the press court with him, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.199 he seems kind of earnest and hard working, you know, 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.439 kind of like a you know, a boy scout. He's 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.800 gonna go in there and give it are But a 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.240 lot of times that doesn't work on TV. Jason Witten 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.199 tried that on Moday Night Football. You know, he worked 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.000 as hard as anybody, but he was terrible, and you 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.000 know he ran back to the NFL. Uh tell you 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:25.720 the truth. I mean, you want to pick a wild 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:27.679 card who could be great on TV? I'm here and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.160 it's Philip Rivers. Uh. You know, if he wants to 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.480 do TV, people think he could be the next Dandy 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.160 Don He's got that kind of southern charm and he 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.839 loves to talk and he loves the bullshit and he 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.680 loves to, you know, talk smack, so he could really 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.800 do it. But I mean, if I was a betting man, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:49.240 and I'm not, I you know, would put Breathe down 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:54.559 as being average with potential for good. Michael, speaking of BS, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.599 who I mean outside the National Football who do you 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.440 think made out the best with this new your rights 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.559 deal with the National Football League? Is it ABC? ESPN? 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.800 Is it Amazon? Like? Where do you feel? Because for 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.880 as much as we have gone towards the digital realm, 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.400 there's still a lot of people that don't access the 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.880 Internet in terms of watching content on there, and I 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.839 think the Thursday Night package it's been challenging at least 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.439 for a lot of people to find the game itself 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.240 and then to obviously enjoy it from either an iPad 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.480 or a Mac or even a PC. Like, well, who 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.679 do you feel made out the best in terms of 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:35.160 network coverage? And then the world is the company? The 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.200 world is the company? ABC and ESPN got a Super Bowl, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:43.240 two Super Bowls ESPN since its founding in nineteen seventy nine, 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.000 and a little trailer in uh, you know, an empty 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.000 field somewhere in Bristol, Connecticut has dreamed of getting a 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.199 Super Bowl. This legitimizes in a way that they've never 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.520 been legitimized before. Number two, Monday and Night Football gets 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:02.480 flexible scheduling. How llelujah, we don't have to sit through 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.719 these dog games in December with two losing teams. And 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.959 I mean that will do huge boos for ESPN's ratings 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.920 because right up until now, the only network that has 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.959 had flexible scheduling is is NBC for Something and football. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.560 So I think, hands down the winner of this deal 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.480 was the Walt Disney Company. And the bigger story here 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.560 is the growing alliance between the NFL and Disney. I mean, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.200 these two corporations are becoming joined at the hip. You know, 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.840 they're playing at each other like two teenagers in heat. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.720 So you know, right now, Disney, you know what I mean, 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.160 is the golden child for the NFL and by stories 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.560 and vice versa. Yeah, we haven't seen since the glory 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.320 days of Gary Thorne back then with the National Hockey League. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.880 But what gives you the sense that this will work 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.880 the second time around with the NHL and ESPN. I 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:00.040 think ESPN, for one thing, really wants it. You know, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.280 these networks have all come around to a signal idea, 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.760 which is live game rights are everything. You know, we 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.160 in the media are certainly guilty of this, and I'm 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.360 certainly guilty of They're talking so much about studio program 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.240 first take and you know, skip ballas and all this, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.960 but the network suits, the people who run this business 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.560 have come to conclusion that it's all about live game rights. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.600 And you have a sport that with which is one 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.680 of the biggest sports in the world. You have a young, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.280 tech savvy UHAD base, and you have a fan base 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:37.640 in the NHL that is rabbit. Yeah, they feel with 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.360 justification that they don't get as much attention as the 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.360 other sports. And when somebody like ESPN we'll start to 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.360 broadcast their games again and talk about it, it will 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.120 be a huge boost for the sport. Having said that, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.280 I think we should pour one out for NBC. I 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.200 think NBC did a fantastic job of the last ten years. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.040 Innovations like the Winter Classic outdoor Hockey game will go 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.040 down in history. They did a wonderful job. Yeah, the 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.000 scene in late Todd who was fantastic on that note too, 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.400 with live programming, Because Ben and I talked about this 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.000 at good length do you think in a way this 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.200 also saves the networks because of the program the in 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.840 studio programs. You know, they've they've at times gone a 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:24.440 little too controversial or gone political, and that disenfranchises people 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.200 from watching their shows. So do you think in a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120 way that actually saves the networks from having to worry 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.280 about any of that other junk that doesn't have to 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:36.000 do with sports specific related material. I believe it too, 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.320 And I believe that's a that's a really interesting and 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:43.160 in smart insight. I think, you know, the NFL giving 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:48.720 eleven year deals to traditional linear legacy networks will keep 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.720 them in business for the next twenty years where they 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.760 might have gone out of business. I mean, somebody used 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.520 this comparison. I wish I could remember who, but it 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.640 was a great one, which is, uh, sports has become 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.920 of a jinga game for TV networks. If you remove 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.960 that block, they would crumble into dust. And you know, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.040 through this deal with the NFL, these networks will be 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.200 in business, you know, at least for the next eleven years. 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.639 And I think that's great. With with the way that 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.760 salaries have been thrown out there. I saw this on 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.240 on Thursday. You know, George Kittle. His his deal for 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.920 this season is guaranteed. He's making a salary just a 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.840 hair over eleven million dollars. But it's hard for me 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.320 to imagine or to fathom the fact that he's making 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.560 eleven million dollars a year. That's a little bit more 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.000 than Jim Nats and seven million dollars less or eight 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:42.360 million dollars less than than Tony Romo. Will there ever 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.679 be a curve to what these broadcasters are making at 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.720 the bigger stages. I don't think so, uh, you know, 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.760 And it's a it's a great question because there was 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.800 a time when John Madden made more than any player 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.520 in the NFL. Think about that. John Madden was so 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.919 big as a broadcasters he made more money any single 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.080 NFL player, Joe Montana or whatever. But as far as 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.520 the Tony Romo thing, I'm already seen a big backlash 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.240 against that, uh, you know, naturally after Tony Romo got 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.920 that contract, and congratulations Tony Romo because it's great, but 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.119 you know, everybody who's an A list talent said I 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.159 want Tony ronoand money. Uh. And you know, I mean 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.400 networks are already fighting back hard. They're saying, you know, Look, 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.359 this guy's a unicorn. You know, he had the right timing. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.680 All this happened before the pandemic. He had the Super 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.680 Bowl coming up. So I don't think we'll ever see that. 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.879 I mean, the way these revenues keep exploding for the 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.720 NBA and the NFL, and the players make anywhere between 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:44.480 forty that I don't think you'll ever see announcers equaling 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:49.280 the pay of broadcasts, I mean equaling the pay of players. Well, Michael, 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.440 as far as it's just a general censor of these 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.879 networks and you're talking about keeping them in business. I 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.080 had a buddy that worked at ABC back when they 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.720 had money Night Football originally back and near the end 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.600 of the run, and they were losing money. It was 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.080 a loss leader. I can't imagine they're making money now 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:10.240 with the money that's being paid for these rights. Is 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.919 that still the case? And how much do you think 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.680 they're actually losing on these TV deals. I don't think 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.000 it's the case that they're all losing money like the 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.320 way that you SA Remember I covered that era too, 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:22.560 and that's a great point. You know, one of the 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.960 reasons why CBS, you know, got out of the NFL business. 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.840 They were losing money. You remember, I think the networks 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.719 have come to this conclusion they're gonna lose a hell 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.080 of a lot more without the NFL than they would 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:40.600 with the NFL. And if you've got the playoffs, and 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.360 you've got the conference championships, and you've got the Super Bowl, 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.240 which prints money, you could even make money. Uh. But 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.080 it's still a dynamic that's at work. I mean, one 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.240 of the reasons why the Linear Network shunned Thurst Football 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:55.920 it was it was just hard to make money on it. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.160 You to share it with NFL network, you gotta share 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.040 it with the local broadcasters, you've got share it with Amazon. 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.639 And you know, they just said we're out. But I 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.000 think you know what I mean that there still is 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.720 a huge opportunity to make money with the NFL. If 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:13.560 there wasn't, they wouldn't be in business with them. Be 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.040 sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.480 weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.200 to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.760 at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.320 Radio and the I Heart Radio app. How concerning is 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.360 it though, with people moving to streaming now getting ray 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.399 away from the satellite cable, more and more people cutting 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.760 the cord and you can watch everything online and streaming 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.120 and everyone, Michael, as you know, should pay the rights 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.120 fees for the packages. But a lot of people are 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.239 on the pirate ship, and there are ways you can 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.160 watch many of these games without actually having to pay 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.920 for them. So how much danger do you think that 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.520 is to the business model of the NFL and just 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.000 sports in general, which is so depending on people paying 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:06.439 extra to watch the games. I think it's a huge threat. 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.800 I teach it Rutgers and sports sports journalism there for 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.679 five years, and when I talked to these eighteen ninety one, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.480 the woral of students they just don't watch TV anymore. 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.200 They watch everything on demand, when and how they wanted. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:25.320 So it's a huge threat of a piracy. These new 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.320 consumers who were tech savvy getting getting the product without 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.680 paying for it, or two just dropping out of the 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.120 habit of live sports. Um, you know, they didn't grow 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:38.720 up like we grew up, where it's like, oh, the 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:40.720 Yankee game is on at seven and I'm gonna spend 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.800 three hours watching this. They don't think like that. They 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:45.760 think I'll watch it on my phone, or I'll just 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.000 watch the highlights, or I'll just go to house the 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.280 highlights and I'll see the clips and the in That 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.280 is a huge problem, and I think that's why you're 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.280 seeing the network and the NFL working so hard to 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:02.199 try to attract young reviewers with everything from that, you know, uh, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.720 that crazy Nickelodeon game with the slime to Mega cast 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.600 everything else. Michael, Back in the nineties, I used to 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.920 love the NFL and NBC and the NBA on NBC. 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.160 I don't know if it was because of the broadcasters, 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:22.480 because the music, because t is all of it right, Um, Like, 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.040 what would you put up there as pound for pound 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.919 the best product right now on television? And I mean 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.760 everything Like the UFC two sixty last week was was great. 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:37.200 Obviously they had Fight Island. Uh, the Olympic coverage with NBC, NFL, NBA. 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:39.000 Like where do you fit in all of this? Like 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.240