1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Show weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio appo. If you 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: thought more hours a day, minutes a week was enough, 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: think again. He's the last remnants of the old Republic, 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: a sole fashion of fairness. He treats crackheads in the 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: ghetto cutter the same as the rich pill poppers in 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: the penthouse, to clearinghouse of hot takes, break free for 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: something special. The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: now in the ale everywhere, back at it again. Another 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: weekend is upon us. This a spinoff of The Ben 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: Maller Show heard overnights as you know on Fox Sports Radio, 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: and we do this every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. This 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: is the Friday Podcast And doesn't matter whether you're in 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the country club or the trailer park, we are here 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: for you. On the fifth Hour, David Gascon is with us. 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: Yes for the four O five ras shown that a 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: cool up I got some raving news. A couple of 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: days ago before Opening Day in Major League Baseball, that 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: we have eclipsed the highest downloaded numbers ever in the 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: history of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller. And also 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: the last two or three episodes were higher than any 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: show you have broadcasted on live radio over the last 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: year and a half. How about that? How about them apples? 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: We actually have a live audience. Yeah, but they're not 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: really alive. They're live, but they're not alive attack. I 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: mean when they have syringes in their arms or when 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: they're intoxicated from alcohol. It doesn't really count that we're here. Again, 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: you're not proving you and I are an elitist loo user. 32 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: This could be like this is like Gretzky Curry Magic, 33 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Kareem hers Scheizer's sosha, like this is a good combination. 34 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: No it's not, but I listen, I I I'm willing 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: to hang out with the Hillbillies and the Hoi POLLOI 36 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: and all that. And you can hang out and have 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: cocktails at the at the bar with all the elites. Uh, 38 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: that's fine. I am a proud Neanderthal. Anyway, Well, this 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: is not about us. We will delve into the tremendously 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: exciting news about the downloads, which we're probably jinks will 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: go back to zero now, but we we we will 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: welcome in right now. Guy who I've been an admirer. 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: I've read his his work for many many years. He's 44 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: bounced all over the place. His name is Michael McCarthy. 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: He's a sports business guy. He's a senior writer at 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: Front Office Sports dot com. You should check it out. 47 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: It's not one of the big corporate run websites. It's 48 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: a start up Front Office sports dot com. If you're 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: into the business of sports. Uh. They do a lot 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: of good stuff at that website. But Michael McCarthy has 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: been around. He's worked at the The New York Times, 52 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: He's had by lines at the New York Times, Sports 53 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: Illustrated us A Today. He's done work for CNBC, The 54 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated. He has been all over 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: the map. He's even done some teaching. Uh. And I'm 56 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: sure that will be brought up here at some point. 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: But let's get into the business of sport. An interesting 58 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: conversation on tap here. As sports and television and media 59 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: are embedded together, we've certainly learned that more and more 60 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: over the last year with it not mattering that fans 61 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: are actually at the games are not and the television 62 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: money continue to come in. But welcome in, Michael, thank 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: you for spending some time with us. So the NFL 64 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: is the king. It keeps the lights on in these parts, 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: we like to say. So let's start with the n 66 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: f L. And you wrote that. Roger wrote recently, Roger 67 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: Udell wants the NFL to generate twenty seven billion dollars 68 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: in annual revenue. By It's an amazing number, twenty seven 69 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 1: billion dollars. Obviously, so Michael explained to me how that's 70 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: actually gonna work. Okay, yeah, Well, I mean the big 71 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: uh money maker for the NFL is obviously TV rights. 72 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at their recent TV deals, 73 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: they're getting something like, you know, four hundred and fifteen billion, uh, 74 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, just right off the bat. And they have 75 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: the ability to pull out of the deal after seven 76 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: years of gambling takes off and go back to the 77 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: table too. I think his international expansion. I fully believe 78 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: there will be a team in London, in Mexico City, uh, 79 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: in an international market for the next five years. You 80 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: better believe the NFL looks obviously at how well the 81 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: NBA and will BE have done overseas, and they want 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: some of that for themselves. So do you think they'll 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: be expansion teams, They're gonna go to thirty four teams, 84 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: or they're just going to relocate a couple of teams 85 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: that are currently in American cities. It's a great question. 86 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: It's tb D. I think it's fifty fifty. I mean, 87 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, I could see a team like Jacksonville, which 88 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: already has a huge fan base in London. Uh, and 89 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: I think that was on purpose, uh, you know, being 90 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: transferred over there. I could also see them expanding. What 91 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: do I think about the NFL that I've always liked 92 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: is they do not sit on their laurels. I mean 93 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: like going to seventeen games. I mean, can you imagine 94 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: that in baseball below? Oh my god, what will the 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: throw of the record books? Doesn't care like seventeen games? Yeah, sure, 96 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: but just you know, throughout the old record book, I 97 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: thought of no One. Yeah, and Michael I. I am 98 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: casual friends with Fred Dryer and he told me when 99 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: he played in the NFL back in the seventies and 100 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: the ease that the owners then wanted an eighteen game schedule. 101 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: They they were very passionate about that. And that's over 102 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: forty years ago when that was going on. So isn't 103 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: this just a temporary stop to eighteen games? Like that, 104 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: we're at seventeen for X number of years, But the 105 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: goal is to get to eighteen, correct. I think I 106 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: totally agree with you. I think the goal is to 107 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: get to eighteen. And I think you know, who knows 108 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: what the goal will be ten years from now. I mean, 109 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: there was one famous NFL g M who said, you know, 110 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: where the ranchers, you're the cattle. Uh. And you know 111 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: they may say whatever they want publicly, but you know, 112 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: two billionaires, they're still the ranchers and the players are 113 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: still the cattle. Yeah and yeah, I mean, I'll go 114 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: back to what you said. With the possible expansion to 115 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: the NFL. It's it's an odd deal because we've established 116 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: like there's a certain number, there's this Goldilocks zone of 117 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: teams that you can only have a finite amount of 118 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: teams in any of these sports leagues. The NFL's got 119 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: thirty two, Baseball has got thirty. Uh, it's like right 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: around that number. But if we were to come back, 121 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, two hundred years from now and say sports 122 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: is still around in society, is the same relatively, how 123 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: many teams do you think there would be? I mean 124 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: they've been in that area between twenty thirty two, right 125 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: around there for a while. Would we see forty five 126 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: fifty teams? I mean, how high giving him go before 127 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: it becomes problematic? I think I think you could easily go, uh, 128 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, forty teams. Uh. You know, we're talking about 129 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: a country that's now over three million people, you know, 130 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: a country which is you know, changing demographically, changing racially. 131 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: You know, millions upon millions of American citizens are on 132 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: the move, creating new suburbs of new mega lot polus 133 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: is all over the place. Uh So I mean you 134 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: fold the population. Uh. You know, remember about end of 135 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago doing a story for the USA Today, 136 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: they sent me out to Las Vegas to do a 137 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: what if story? Like what if sports ever gave up 138 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: their opposition into gambling? Could sports ever come to Las Vegas? 139 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: And it's like that, I think about it, and that 140 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: story is a joke, of course, it has you know 141 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: what I mean? And you know, you go to the 142 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: NFL team the NFL stay to you with the NHL 143 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: and everything else. So yeah, I mean I think the 144 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: sky the women. Yeah, and uh, I didn't want to 145 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: talk to you. I know you've written some about Al 146 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: Michaels and the NBC and just the Drew Brees move 147 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: and how that all relates. But you know everything that 148 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: I've been hearing and reading from guys like yourself there, 149 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: it certainly sounds like NBC is planning to, shall I say, 150 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: force Al Michaels out after the upcoming season. And if 151 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: that is accurate, let's start with that. Is that, if 152 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: that's accurate, is this Al's decision or is he gonna 153 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: go work somewhere else? Wison called NFL games. Uh hey, 154 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that's accurate. Al's contract goes through the 155 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty two Super Bowl in Los Angeles. Um, 156 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: and it could uh all be very amicable. You know, 157 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: Al is seventy six, seventy seventies old. You might just 158 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: decide like Dick Stockin did this week, to say, Okay, 159 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hang up my cleats and hang up my microphone. However, 160 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: I think the idea of them forcing Al Michael's out 161 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: is a bit overblown. I think, you know, it would 162 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: have to be a decision that Al goes along with, 163 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: or Al could just pick up his chips and move 164 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: to another network. I mean, you've got ESPN and ABC 165 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: sitting there in the Super Bowl rotation. Al would look 166 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: pretty good in one of those yellow canary yellow ABC 167 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 1: blazers when they do the Super Bowl. NBC would have 168 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: to make that decision to be a throwback, absolutely, But 169 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: they have brought in Drew Breese and the You don't 170 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: bring in a guy like that unless you think that 171 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: he's going to be with Obviously he's the analyst. So 172 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: does that mean Chris Collinsworth is got one foot out 173 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: the door? Yeah? Yeah, Really, we're talking about two different things. 174 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: I mean, Mike Tariko is obviously the heir apparent to 175 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: Al Michaels, just like he was the heir apparent to 176 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: Bob Costas. You know, whether that happens after the next 177 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: Super Bowl or not, But Mike Tarrico will eventually call 178 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: UH Sunday Night Football. The Drew Brees question, I think 179 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: it's more immediate about Chris Collinsworth because you know Drew 180 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: Brees is going to come in, as you know, play 181 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: by a game analyst on Notre Dame and a studio analyst, 182 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: and he could replace Chris Collinsworth. So what we could 183 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: be looking at within a couple of years is an 184 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: al Michael's Chris Collinsworth booth go into a Mike Tarriko. Uh. Yeah. 185 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: The question about Breezes. Everybody assumes he's gonna be great, right, 186 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: Tony Romo was great? Great? Now it doesn't work that way. 187 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: There's tons of ex athletes and ex coaches who flopped 188 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: on TV. I give you Emmett Smith, and you know, 189 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: Joe Montana and a bunch of others. So there's no 190 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: guarantee that Drew Brees is gonna be great. And if 191 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: he isn't great, don't just keep Collinsworth. Yeah, And I 192 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: always bring this up on my My Overnight show, Michael, 193 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: the quote from Howard Cosell about the jock ocracy of 194 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: sports television, And if Howard was still around today, oh 195 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: my god, his head would explode from all that. It's 196 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: only gotten more pronounced over the years with guys walking 197 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: off the field into TV jypt. But Breeze already had 198 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: this lined up a couple of years ago with the 199 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: Saints he seems. Now, if you were betting man, Michael, 200 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: you cover this stuff and you've done this for a 201 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: long time to do a great job. But if you 202 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: were a betting man, would you bet that Breeze is 203 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: good or bad? I think he's gonna be kind of 204 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: mediocre because he comes across to me is just too polite. 205 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: I think you've got to have a little edge to 206 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: you to be good at that. Yeah, I mean just 207 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: an interviews and being on the press court with him, 208 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: he seems kind of earnest and hard working, you know, 209 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: kind of like a you know, a boy scout. He's 210 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: gonna go in there and give it are But a 211 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: lot of times that doesn't work on TV. Jason Witten 212 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: tried that on Moday Night Football. You know, he worked 213 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: as hard as anybody, but he was terrible, and you 214 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: know he ran back to the NFL. Uh tell you 215 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: the truth. I mean, you want to pick a wild 216 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: card who could be great on TV? I'm here and 217 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: it's Philip Rivers. Uh. You know, if he wants to 218 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: do TV, people think he could be the next Dandy 219 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: Don He's got that kind of southern charm and he 220 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: loves to talk and he loves the bullshit and he 221 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: loves to, you know, talk smack, so he could really 222 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: do it. But I mean, if I was a betting man, 223 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: and I'm not, I you know, would put Breathe down 224 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: as being average with potential for good. Michael, speaking of BS, 225 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,599 Speaker 1: who I mean outside the National Football who do you 226 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: think made out the best with this new your rights 227 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: deal with the National Football League? Is it ABC? ESPN? 228 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: Is it Amazon? Like? Where do you feel? Because for 229 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: as much as we have gone towards the digital realm, 230 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of people that don't access the 231 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: Internet in terms of watching content on there, and I 232 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: think the Thursday Night package it's been challenging at least 233 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: for a lot of people to find the game itself 234 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: and then to obviously enjoy it from either an iPad 235 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: or a Mac or even a PC. Like, well, who 236 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: do you feel made out the best in terms of 237 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: network coverage? And then the world is the company? The 238 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: world is the company? ABC and ESPN got a Super Bowl, 239 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: two Super Bowls ESPN since its founding in nineteen seventy nine, 240 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: and a little trailer in uh, you know, an empty 241 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: field somewhere in Bristol, Connecticut has dreamed of getting a 242 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: Super Bowl. This legitimizes in a way that they've never 243 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: been legitimized before. Number two, Monday and Night Football gets 244 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: flexible scheduling. How llelujah, we don't have to sit through 245 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: these dog games in December with two losing teams. And 246 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: I mean that will do huge boos for ESPN's ratings 247 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: because right up until now, the only network that has 248 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: had flexible scheduling is is NBC for Something and football. 249 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: So I think, hands down the winner of this deal 250 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: was the Walt Disney Company. And the bigger story here 251 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: is the growing alliance between the NFL and Disney. I mean, 252 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: these two corporations are becoming joined at the hip. You know, 253 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: they're playing at each other like two teenagers in heat. 254 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: So you know, right now, Disney, you know what I mean, 255 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: is the golden child for the NFL and by stories 256 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: and vice versa. Yeah, we haven't seen since the glory 257 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: days of Gary Thorne back then with the National Hockey League. 258 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: But what gives you the sense that this will work 259 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the second time around with the NHL and ESPN. I 260 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: think ESPN, for one thing, really wants it. You know, 261 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: these networks have all come around to a signal idea, 262 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: which is live game rights are everything. You know, we 263 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: in the media are certainly guilty of this, and I'm 264 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: certainly guilty of They're talking so much about studio program 265 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: first take and you know, skip ballas and all this, 266 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: but the network suits, the people who run this business 267 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: have come to conclusion that it's all about live game rights. 268 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: And you have a sport that with which is one 269 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: of the biggest sports in the world. You have a young, 270 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: tech savvy UHAD base, and you have a fan base 271 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: in the NHL that is rabbit. Yeah, they feel with 272 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: justification that they don't get as much attention as the 273 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: other sports. And when somebody like ESPN we'll start to 274 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: broadcast their games again and talk about it, it will 275 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: be a huge boost for the sport. Having said that, 276 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: I think we should pour one out for NBC. I 277 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: think NBC did a fantastic job of the last ten years. 278 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: Innovations like the Winter Classic outdoor Hockey game will go 279 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: down in history. They did a wonderful job. Yeah, the 280 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: scene in late Todd who was fantastic on that note too, 281 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: with live programming, Because Ben and I talked about this 282 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: at good length do you think in a way this 283 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: also saves the networks because of the program the in 284 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: studio programs. You know, they've they've at times gone a 285 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: little too controversial or gone political, and that disenfranchises people 286 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: from watching their shows. So do you think in a 287 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: way that actually saves the networks from having to worry 288 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: about any of that other junk that doesn't have to 289 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: do with sports specific related material. I believe it too, 290 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: And I believe that's a that's a really interesting and 291 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: in smart insight. I think, you know, the NFL giving 292 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: eleven year deals to traditional linear legacy networks will keep 293 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: them in business for the next twenty years where they 294 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: might have gone out of business. I mean, somebody used 295 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: this comparison. I wish I could remember who, but it 296 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: was a great one, which is, uh, sports has become 297 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: of a jinga game for TV networks. If you remove 298 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: that block, they would crumble into dust. And you know, 299 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: through this deal with the NFL, these networks will be 300 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: in business, you know, at least for the next eleven years. 301 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: And I think that's great. With with the way that 302 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: salaries have been thrown out there. I saw this on 303 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: on Thursday. You know, George Kittle. His his deal for 304 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: this season is guaranteed. He's making a salary just a 305 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: hair over eleven million dollars. But it's hard for me 306 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: to imagine or to fathom the fact that he's making 307 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: eleven million dollars a year. That's a little bit more 308 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: than Jim Nats and seven million dollars less or eight 309 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: million dollars less than than Tony Romo. Will there ever 310 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: be a curve to what these broadcasters are making at 311 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: the bigger stages. I don't think so, uh, you know, 312 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: And it's a it's a great question because there was 313 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: a time when John Madden made more than any player 314 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: in the NFL. Think about that. John Madden was so 315 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: big as a broadcasters he made more money any single 316 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: NFL player, Joe Montana or whatever. But as far as 317 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: the Tony Romo thing, I'm already seen a big backlash 318 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: against that, uh, you know, naturally after Tony Romo got 319 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: that contract, and congratulations Tony Romo because it's great, but 320 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: you know, everybody who's an A list talent said I 321 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: want Tony ronoand money. Uh. And you know, I mean 322 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: networks are already fighting back hard. They're saying, you know, Look, 323 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: this guy's a unicorn. You know, he had the right timing. 324 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: All this happened before the pandemic. He had the Super 325 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: Bowl coming up. So I don't think we'll ever see that. 326 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: I mean, the way these revenues keep exploding for the 327 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: NBA and the NFL, and the players make anywhere between 328 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: forty that I don't think you'll ever see announcers equaling 329 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: the pay of broadcasts, I mean equaling the pay of players. Well, Michael, 330 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: as far as it's just a general censor of these 331 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: networks and you're talking about keeping them in business. I 332 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: had a buddy that worked at ABC back when they 333 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: had money Night Football originally back and near the end 334 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: of the run, and they were losing money. It was 335 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: a loss leader. I can't imagine they're making money now 336 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: with the money that's being paid for these rights. Is 337 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: that still the case? And how much do you think 338 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: they're actually losing on these TV deals. I don't think 339 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: it's the case that they're all losing money like the 340 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: way that you SA Remember I covered that era too, 341 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: and that's a great point. You know, one of the 342 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: reasons why CBS, you know, got out of the NFL business. 343 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: They were losing money. You remember, I think the networks 344 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 1: have come to this conclusion they're gonna lose a hell 345 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: of a lot more without the NFL than they would 346 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: with the NFL. And if you've got the playoffs, and 347 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: you've got the conference championships, and you've got the Super Bowl, 348 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: which prints money, you could even make money. Uh. But 349 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: it's still a dynamic that's at work. I mean, one 350 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: of the reasons why the Linear Network shunned Thurst Football 351 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: it was it was just hard to make money on it. 352 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: You to share it with NFL network, you gotta share 353 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: it with the local broadcasters, you've got share it with Amazon. 354 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: And you know, they just said we're out. But I 355 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: think you know what I mean that there still is 356 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: a huge opportunity to make money with the NFL. If 357 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: there wasn't, they wouldn't be in business with them. Be 358 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show 359 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: weekdays at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure 360 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays 361 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports 362 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: Radio and the I Heart Radio app. How concerning is 363 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: it though, with people moving to streaming now getting ray 364 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: away from the satellite cable, more and more people cutting 365 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: the cord and you can watch everything online and streaming 366 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: and everyone, Michael, as you know, should pay the rights 367 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: fees for the packages. But a lot of people are 368 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,239 Speaker 1: on the pirate ship, and there are ways you can 369 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: watch many of these games without actually having to pay 370 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: for them. So how much danger do you think that 371 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: is to the business model of the NFL and just 372 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: sports in general, which is so depending on people paying 373 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: extra to watch the games. I think it's a huge threat. 374 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: I teach it Rutgers and sports sports journalism there for 375 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: five years, and when I talked to these eighteen ninety one, 376 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: the woral of students they just don't watch TV anymore. 377 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: They watch everything on demand, when and how they wanted. 378 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: So it's a huge threat of a piracy. These new 379 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: consumers who were tech savvy getting getting the product without 380 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: paying for it, or two just dropping out of the 381 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: habit of live sports. Um, you know, they didn't grow 382 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: up like we grew up, where it's like, oh, the 383 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: Yankee game is on at seven and I'm gonna spend 384 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: three hours watching this. They don't think like that. They 385 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: think I'll watch it on my phone, or I'll just 386 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: watch the highlights, or I'll just go to house the 387 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: highlights and I'll see the clips and the in That 388 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: is a huge problem, and I think that's why you're 389 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: seeing the network and the NFL working so hard to 390 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: try to attract young reviewers with everything from that, you know, uh, 391 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: that crazy Nickelodeon game with the slime to Mega cast 392 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: everything else. Michael, Back in the nineties, I used to 393 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: love the NFL and NBC and the NBA on NBC. 394 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was because of the broadcasters, 395 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: because the music, because t is all of it right, Um, Like, 396 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: what would you put up there as pound for pound 397 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: the best product right now on television? And I mean 398 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: everything Like the UFC two sixty last week was was great. 399 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: Obviously they had Fight Island. Uh, the Olympic coverage with NBC, NFL, NBA. 400 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: Like where do you fit in all of this? Like 401 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: who do you think has the best product pound for 402 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: pound for a particular sport? Oh? And that's a great question, 403 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean like you, I mean, I love 404 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: Round Bull Rock and NBC and that those great NBA games. 405 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: I mean, if I had to pick a league that 406 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, it has the best product, best television product. 407 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: It's handed down the NFL. Um you know, the Fox 408 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: and CBS games on Sunday afternoon are the single most 409 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: watched games of the week and every single week. And 410 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: NBC Saturday Night Football is the single most watched program 411 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: in prime time for ten years in a row. I 412 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: mean the old Rectord was five years and that was 413 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: a gun, smoke and all in the family. Just ten 414 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: years in a row. It bores away everything Drava scripted comedies, 415 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: reality football football number one. I mean, the football product 416 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: is so so good that it's going to be a 417 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: challenge for them to get viewers back in the stadium 418 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: when you've got such a great television product, I say, 419 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, the NBA Olympic NBC's Olympic coverage is just 420 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: outstanding and beautiful and it moves you, uh in such 421 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: a way that's you know, it's incredible. And then you 422 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: have the ESPN which does just, you know, just to 423 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: such a great job on college sports, and the NFL 424 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: and the NBA and MLB. I mean, I can go 425 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: on and on, but you know they're the king of 426 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: luck coverage. Yeah, Michael you know, during the pandemic when 427 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: there were no sports for a hundred and thirty four days. 428 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: Last year, I fell into the rabbit hole on YouTube 429 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: of watching random old games. So I realized that this 430 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: is merely for me nostalgia. But there are so many 431 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: channels hidden on YouTube that just broadcast random Monday night 432 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: baseball games with Keith Jackson and Cosell back in that 433 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: year and whatnot. It is, it is, it is wild. 434 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: It's a it's a gold mine. You see how sports 435 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: television has changed. Uh? And are those allowed though? I 436 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: mean it seems like those are still. How long does 437 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: the trademark last? How long does the copyright last? It's 438 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: I love it. I hope it doesn't go away. But 439 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: I I'm fascinated that they can put a three hour 440 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: random you know, Yankee Tiger game from on YouTube and 441 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: not get in trouble. For I know, it's like bringing 442 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: back ESPN Classic, remember that network. Yes, yes, go back 443 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: and watching teams and the announcers. Uh, you grow up, 444 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: you grow up with I mean with you. I love 445 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: you know, going back into the time capsule and you 446 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: know feeling you know, twelve beforeteen again, you know, watching 447 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: the Yankees in the World Series or whatever it was. 448 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: But I think there's those games also have a shelf life. 449 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: I mean I remember doing this story exactly. I don't 450 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: know it was a year ago, but just about a 451 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: year ago, you know, during the pandemic. It every single 452 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: network I talked to, from ESPN to the regionals were 453 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: bringing out classic programming. Right, So if you were in Detroit, 454 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: you saw the bird Federich, if you were in New 455 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: York you saw or you know, Reggie Jackson, you know, 456 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: or if you were in l A, you know, you'd 457 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: see Fernando and what they found that after about a 458 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: week of that, people stopped watching. I think got a 459 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: little dose like this is great, and then they stopped. 460 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: And the reason they stopped because it just doesn't have 461 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: the power in the attraction of a live game. A 462 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: live game where you don't know who's gonna win, where 463 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: you don't know what's gonna happen when you're anticipating next 464 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: grade game is the single greatest reality at the tavement 465 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: in the world. And you can't replace that. No, I 466 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: agree with you and I but I usually when I'm watching, 467 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: I'll be like doing so I'll be on the treadmill 468 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: and I'll stumble into a like a game, and they 469 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: don't usually put the score up, but I would agree 470 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: if you know the outcome of the game, like big 471 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: playoff games, and you know what's gonna happen. But some 472 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: of these, like I would watch him when I was 473 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: a kid, these Monday night baseball games, and I don't remember, 474 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, a random Brewers game against whoever. So it's 475 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: a it is unique that way. Now I wanted to 476 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: move on. How about this Jim Nance story. I know 477 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: you've covered this here. Jim Nancy was supposedly a free agent, 478 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: was appending free agent. He was still with CBS. Obviously 479 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: he resigned. Uh And I had heard whispers and can 480 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: you confirm it tonight that Jim Nay was so he's 481 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: so in with the Masters people that if he had 482 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: actually left CBS, they would have taken the Masters TV 483 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: deal with him. Is that? Does that have any kernel 484 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: of truth to it? You know I had heard the 485 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: same rumor. I was never able to pin it down. 486 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean, he is synonymous with the Masters, his voice, 487 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: his face, and the Masters does whatever they want. I mean, 488 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: what's amazing is you know these people who run out 489 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: got the national they don't follow the rules like everybody else. 490 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean, they've had CBS on a one year deal 491 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: for fifty years. Can you imagine you Maaster been a 492 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: network was on a one year contract for fifty plus years. 493 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: So I mean, is that possible. I wasn't able to 494 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: pin it down enough to you know, to report that, 495 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think it's possible. They love dance, and 496 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: Nance loves the Masters, and nances on record saying he 497 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: wants to call the Masters to least seventy five years old, 498 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: which is another fourteen years or so. So you know, 499 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Nan to me is you know what I mean, one 500 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: of the you know, the four or five top talents 501 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: in the whole industry. And he means a lot to 502 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: the players, I mean to the members who run that club, 503 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, And they do have options. 504 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: I mean you're telling me, wouldn't NBC wouldn't love to 505 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: get their hands on the Masters. ESPN's got the early rounds, 506 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: Now what would they give for all four rounds for 507 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: the Masters? So yeah, I mean the Nance negotiation was fascinating. Um, 508 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, he was, you know, this guy who everybody 509 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: sees as a lifer, But look this is business. I mean, 510 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: remember we grew up with John Madden, Madden word for 511 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: all four networks, right, yeah, yeah, just this is business. 512 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: You know. So if if Jim Nance had the opportunity 513 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: to move to a bunch better job where he would 514 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: be happier and more respected, I think he could have 515 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: been would have the fact that CBS recognized that recognized 516 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: how valuable he is, and he recognized how happy he is. 517 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: It is CBS worked out to a good conclusion. Michael, 518 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: speaking of golf um coverage over the last week, maybe 519 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: week and a half, about what's going on in in 520 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: Georgia with Major League Baseball and Dave Roberts had made 521 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: some comments out here in Los Angeles. What are you 522 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: hearing about Major League Baseball their stance on the All 523 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: Star Game in Atlanta? And do you think that we'll 524 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: see more of this? And if so, which what do 525 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: you think the wind blows? Do you think this would 526 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: be a huge lift or do you think this would 527 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: be a huge blowback if major League clubs or leagues 528 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: themselves take a stance against certain states legislators, governors and 529 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: how they operate their states respectively. Yeah, I think you 530 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: know the first question I think absolutely, we're gonna see 531 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: sports and politics in twined. Even more, you're gonna have 532 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, groups and political parties across the aisle, you know, 533 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: weighing in. You know what I mean, for sports to 534 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: do this, to do that because of political reasons. I mean, 535 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: Joe Biden was on ESPN the other night, you know, 536 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: speaking out about it. So I think that you know, 537 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: horses out of the barn. You know, the idea that 538 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: you know who sports and politics shouldn't forget it, that 539 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: you know that that auguments over However, you know what 540 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean, And one of the few people in the 541 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: media who is willing to say this, I do think 542 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: there's blown back from it. I do think when you 543 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: mingle sports and politics, anytime you delve into politics as 544 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: corporation or corporate entity, you risk alienating half the audience. 545 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: You get the people who who agree with you to 546 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: support you, and the people who don't agree with you, 547 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: we're not going to support you. And I think there 548 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: was a recent surveying, and like the last week or 549 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: two ago that said, you know, viewers have stopped watching 550 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: certain sports or stopped participating as much being a sports 551 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: fan because they were sick of the creeping uh intrusion 552 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: of Paul Fix into sports. So I expected to continue, 553 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: and I expect it to be blowback. If there's one 554 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: league out there that you think won't actually go down 555 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: or even rise up to the third rail into any 556 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: of this, what lead do you think that is NFL? 557 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: Um You know, when you look at the NFL there 558 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: their seasonal audience has dropped eight percent this year. Now 559 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: that's not as bad as you know, ten percent dropped 560 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, but I mean you compare 561 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: it to you know, some of the forty drops to 562 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: the NBA finals in Kentucky, Derby and Danley had finals 563 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: and in baseball and you know what I mean. So 564 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: if there's one uh sports league that's still bulletproof against that, uh, 565 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: it's the NFL. And you know, and to the point 566 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: about blowback also, I think the league's recognize this. I mean, 567 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, Adam Silver has come out and said they're 568 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: going to tone down the politics. You know this season. 569 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna remove you know, all the banners 570 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: and the signs from player jerseys and courtside that you 571 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: know that the league is you know, very you know, 572 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: confident that they made their point, you know, during a 573 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: very important part of American history, and and now they 574 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: want to just go on and play. But you know, 575 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,239 Speaker 1: like you say, sports can't hide anymore. You know, when 576 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: when Joe Biden has been in office for a month, 577 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, gets up and start saying, you know, sports 578 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: should do this or that, or Trump is from the 579 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: bully pulpit on Twitter, you know, criticizing ESPN. There's no 580 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: escaping anymore. Yeah. I just have a hard time listening 581 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: to either coaches or managers or even players to that matter, 582 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: that don't read everything that has to go on, like 583 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: with a bill or with any kind of legislation that's 584 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: being presented. I have a hard time listening and and 585 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: respecting that when they're dedicated their life to their profession. 586 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: So how can you be so invested in your craft 587 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: and what you're doing and plus your celebrity status, they 588 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you you venture into what's happening 589 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the country. Uh, in a city, 590 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: you're in a state or something like that. It just 591 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: doesn't add up for me. Well, what what it adds 592 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: up as to an insufferability factor? You know, a TV 593 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: viewers and Americans are you know, tired of rich, insufferable 594 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: Hollywood celebrities lecturing them how to live their lives. And 595 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: we're getting dangerously close to that with sports to you 596 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: have athletes who are making you know, heads of billions 597 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: of dollars, you know, lecturing you know, people who are 598 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: trying to you know, make ends meet week to week, 599 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: month to month, and it's kind of like, hey, you know, 600 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: the high ground gets kind of you know, the moral 601 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: high ground gets kind of slippery, particularly when you're not 602 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: saying the same thing about China in other countries. You're 603 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: just criticizing our own country. So they really got to 604 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: watch that where you know what I mean, they don't 605 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: have make create a basic disconnect between them and the 606 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: fans that supports them. Yeah, and I think it cuts 607 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: both ways. Michael, mean, it seems like this, you know, 608 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: politics and sports is really a democratic issue. There's no 609 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: to my knowledge, there's no sports leagues that are of 610 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: a republican based dogma. Uh And can you imagine if 611 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: one of the sports leagues took a position on the 612 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: other side, people's heads would explode there also, But I 613 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: think it's just the case and we as you said, 614 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: you referenced that study, and that's a great study that 615 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: just came out within the last like ten days or so, 616 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: and it was across the board, Michael. It wasn't just Republicans, 617 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: it was Democrats and independence were watching less sports because 618 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: of this nuts And how much coverage did you see that? 619 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: Very little? And I'll tell you why, because most of 620 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: the sports media is in favor of athletes being activists. 621 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: They're in favor of sports leagues being activists. They're in 622 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: favor of sports playing a role, uh in the political debate. 623 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think there's some some narrative building 624 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: at work too, where you know what I mean, the 625 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: sports media is going to cover something if it fits 626 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: with their narrative, but they're not going to cover it 627 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: if it doesn't. And certainly that study did not go 628 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: with their narrative. So are you still you You mentioned 629 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: you you were at Rutgers. Are you still doing some 630 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: stuff at Rutgers now? Or is that in the past. 631 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm not teaching uh this semester, but I've been an 632 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: adjunct professor there for five years. Loved it, great school. 633 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: I taught Multibedia Sports Reporting UM, which is basically I 634 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: think the only sports reporting anymore. You know, the idea 635 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: of you know, people being segmented by media, you know, 636 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't exist anymore where you're just printed through, you're 637 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: just radio, you're just you know, everybody does everything now. Yeah, 638 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, Yuh. I also what we have you I 639 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: wanted to bring up the story and you you had 640 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: some stuff I saw about this. Uh, the Athletic, which 641 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: has been around for a few years now, has some 642 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: big time players in sports, you know, sports writing. Got 643 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: some legendary figures there that right at the Athletic behind 644 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: the paywall, and there was there's been some talk that 645 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: they're gonna merge with Axios, the which I think of 646 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: as a political operation. There is this bad news for 647 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: the athletic or is this good news for the athletic 648 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: if they end up merging. I actually think it's it's 649 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: good news for the athletic because you know, the Athletic, uh, 650 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: you know went from being the place where everybody want 651 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: to work, you know, two or three years ago to 652 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: kind of you know struggling for the subscribers and you 653 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: know they don't accept the add so you know, that's 654 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,439 Speaker 1: a whole huge stigin of money that's just turned off 655 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: U and newsletters right now with the hot thing. We're 656 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: a newsletter company, you know, Front Office Sports has five newsletters, 657 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: was born the way, and we are growing like a weed. 658 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: So I mean, for them to link up with a 659 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: company like that that is heading north, I think it's 660 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: great for the athletic and it's great for journalism because 661 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: I want to see journalists employed. It breaks my heart 662 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: when I see folks losing their jobs, you know, because 663 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: the corporate entities that manage them don't know what the 664 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: hell they're doing. So I mean, you know, to me, 665 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: whatever is good for the athletic is good for the industry. 666 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: But Michael, on that note, with what you have experienced, 667 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: what you have done, and now what you see in 668 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: today's world, do you think there are more or less 669 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: qualified journalists in the sports market, Because it feels like 670 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: to me, especially when it comes to a local level, 671 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: that they're not necessarily journalists. They are just an extension 672 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: of the pr machine of that team or that league. Yeah, 673 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: I think it's clearly less. Uh, you know, you can't 674 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: lay off you know, thousands upon thousands of train qualified 675 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: sports journalists over the last ten years and not having 676 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: the impact on your business. I mean even just watching 677 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: TV or going on websites. I'm saying basic mistakes that 678 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: you never used to see. You know why is that? Well, 679 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: who were the first people that got rid of a right? 680 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: You know, if you worked in a newspaper or magazine 681 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: like I did, you know you knew the copy editors. 682 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: They were usually you know, kind of weird, you know, 683 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: kind of indio synchrome, you know, neurotic, introversial. You know, 684 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: they studied you know, English folklore or something. But they 685 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: would save your butt come crunch time, you know what 686 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean. They would find the mistakes, or they would 687 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: ask the questions, or they would ride your ass, you know, 688 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: to make sure you got it right. And when they 689 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: took kind of you know, the first thing they wiped 690 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: out is that kind of safety layer. So I mean, 691 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: I think that as much as anything else has hurt, 692 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, the quality of the product. Well that not 693 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: only that, but also the influence from teams or from 694 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: from professional leagues, because god forbid, you criticize a team 695 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: a player, and they'll light you up, or they'll just 696 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: want to allow you inside the locker room anymore, grant 697 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: you interview requests. I mean new York can get away 698 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: with it because you got eighteen twenty people on a 699 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: New York Yankees beat, you know, the Jets, the Giants, 700 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: things of that nature. But there's not a lot of 701 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: hard hitting markets out there anymore that allow their journalists 702 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: to attack and to criticize and to critique the talent 703 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: or the management. It's a great point. I mean, as 704 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: the saw is of newspapers and their influence wings, you know, 705 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: the power of the league's and particularly teams increases. I 706 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: see it really at the college level. Uh, you know, 707 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: these college programs could free you out if coach doesn't 708 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: like what you wrote. You know, and you know, and 709 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: there's no respect anymore for that kind of line between 710 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: what journalists have to do and what uh colleges and 711 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: sports leagues have to do. So yeah, that that's a 712 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: real problem. What you need is people who are going 713 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: to support you when that phone call comes from you know, 714 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: the GM or the coach or the president of the school. 715 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: You need somebody who's going to have your back, not 716 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: somebody's gonna throw you under the bus, you know, Michael, 717 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,760 Speaker 1: just we gotta wrap this up. But I just following 718 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: up that train of thought here, I know, I've done 719 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: sports radio a long time, and I have noticed over 720 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: the years when you're critical that there were people that 721 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: love that. Now, I feel like over the last like 722 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: five ten years, I'm not sure when exactly it started. 723 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: It's like many people can't handle They want you to 724 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: only say nice things about the athletes they like and 725 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: the players they like. It's a very odd change that 726 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: has taken place. I don't know if you've noticed that, 727 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: but I have. My theory is it's because of like 728 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: MLB dot com NFL dot com. They get the watered 729 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: down story. But it seems like many many younger fans 730 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: do not want negativity with their sports coverage. It's very 731 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: odd to me. Have you noticed that at all? It 732 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: is very odd. It's like, you know, you're supposed to 733 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: be a cheerleader, which is the exact opposite of what 734 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: being the journalist is. You know what I mean. You 735 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: know you're supposed to be yeah, and you know, if 736 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: somebody does something great, you know, do it. I mean, 737 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: that's one of the things I've always respected about the 738 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: NFL is the big boys and girls. When it comes 739 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: to this, you know you're gonna rip them. You're gonna 740 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: criticize them, you know what I mean, they'll they'll take 741 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: it and move on. But you're right, some of the 742 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: smaller outfits are so uh, you know, sensitive to critics, schism, 743 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: and you know they have these you know, fanboy basis 744 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: on Twitter. You know what I mean? Would you move 745 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: into action? You know what I mean before you know, 746 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: be ratio. So yeah, I think I think it is 747 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: a problem, but I think it's about the growing polarization 748 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: of the country. If you look at politics, we used 749 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: to be able to talk as the country. We used 750 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 1: to be able to come together. Now it's like you've 751 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: got to pick a side and the other side of evil. Yeah, 752 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: I completely agree, Michael Tremaneus. We could do like another 753 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: hour and a half, but we'll let you go. And 754 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And again, if you want to read 755 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: more of Michael, it's Front Office Sports dot com and 756 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: how can people find you on Twitter? There, Michael, my 757 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: handle is m McCarthy rent at Twitter, And uh, I 758 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: appreciate the invite. I really enjoyed the conversation.