1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Welcome. It could happen here a podcast about things following 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: apart and putting the back together again. And today we're 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: doing one of our I guess increasingly less rare but 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: still sort of uncommon putting things back together again episodes, 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: and with me today is Ted men from Amazonians United, 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: to talk about different kinds of union union workers organizing 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: UM and the work that you all have been doing. 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: So Ted, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: So all right, one of the things that I wanted 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: to talk about right off the bat is that Amazonians 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: United is running a very very different kind of organization 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: than a lot of the union efforts that we've talked 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: about on the show, and a lot of the sort 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: of like I guess, classical or sort of business union 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: models stuff that that you know, we've we've we've we 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: you know, than than what you see in the press, 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: and then also that we've been covering. So I wanted 18 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: to start off by asking you about solidarity unionism and 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: how it sort of differs from other kinds of union 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: organizations and campaigns. Sure, I think it's pretty simple. Actually, 21 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: I think solidarity unionism is workers who believe in ourselves 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: and by that I mean, it's workers recognizing that we 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: don't need someone to save us UM when because we 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: are the ones doing the work, we know how to 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: run our workplaces, we know how to do it best, 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: and we also deserve the wealth that we produce. So 27 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: UM solidarity unionism to me is UH building organization with 28 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: each other, where the fabric of our organization is our 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: relationship and our solidarity as coworkers, engaging in struggle against UM, bosses, managers, owners, UM, everyone. 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: That's that's telling us what to do while UH taking 31 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: the lion's share of the wealth that we create. UM. 32 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: And it's by uniting, coming together around issues that we 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: care about, taking direct action in the workplace, UM building 34 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: our confidence and our strength and our consciousness. UM and 35 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: our organization to me a solidary unionism UM. It is 36 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: distinctly different from business unionism, which is the dominant form 37 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: mainstream unionism, you know, legalistic unionism, whatever you wanna call it, UM, 38 00:02:53,600 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: that model that has been failing for several decades. UM 39 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: actually is predicated on a deep distrust of workers, the 40 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: disbelief that workers can organize ourselves, run our own workplaces, 41 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: represent ourselves, defend ourselves and each other. Um. And in 42 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: business union, I mean you know you you see the 43 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: ads when they're posting, uh for union staff, job, come 44 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: lead these workers, Come come join this union and lead. 45 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: You're not even a worker in the workplace. Ho are 46 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: you gonna lead someone in there? Like you know, you're 47 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: you're a lawyer, you're you know, you have a different 48 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: professional expertise. You're not moving the packages with us from 49 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:45,839 Speaker 1: inside with from within the warehouse and so UM. Yeah, 50 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: I think that's that's the main difference to me of 51 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the model. Do you are you a worker? Do you 52 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: believe in workers? You trust and have faith that workers 53 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: we ourselves can build our own organization, lead ourselves and um? 54 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: And when or do you think workers need to be led, 55 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: need to be represented, you need to be told what 56 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: to do? Um need to pay you to go and 57 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: say that? Um? And uh, Yeah, I believe in workers 58 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: almost on a solidarity unions. Yeah. And I think we 59 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: were talking a bit before the show about this, and 60 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: I think there's there's a lot of aspects about this 61 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: that are I think very powerful in you know, in 62 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: in in in secacy economy that haven't been unionized. And 63 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: I haven't our unions ever treated from our people who 64 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: were never sort of organized and to begin with, And 65 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: I think that's you know something that there's there's there's 66 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: the there's this problem that happens like with with a 67 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: lot of unions where you know, you you you get 68 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: you get this sort of bereacratic structure that builds up, 69 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: and the bereacratic structure that builds up like doesn't have 70 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have the same interests as the people in 71 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: the UNI union. And that's a real problem. And you 72 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: get these entrenched like you know, you can get these 73 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: entrenched caucuses you control unions, and you get this the 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: sort of pliferation of of these people. And I think 75 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: this was this was part of why a lot of 76 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: the sort of the anti union techniques that you saw 77 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: in like the sort of anti union persias in the eighties, 78 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean you've been seeing them for a while. Like 79 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: why they started working in the eighties was that, like 80 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, when when when when someone like starts ranting 81 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: about union bureaucrats right like they're they're actually like there 82 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: actually was a divide there, like there there there was 83 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: a sort of like I guess like the like there 84 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: there was a sort of like a kind of fundamental 85 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: class difference, which I think has a lot I mean, 86 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: also has a lot to do with you know, when 87 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: when you get into your sort of like more more 88 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: revolutionary context that that has to do with why a 89 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of unions when you know, Frances infamous for this, 90 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: right like Franceais had these giant like comunist trade unions 91 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: and every time a revolution started, the trade union just 92 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: like sits there and does nothing. And yeah, and you 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: have to sort of ask yourself like, because so why 94 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: is this happening? And I think, yeah, soldier to unionism, 95 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: it has it has a lot of answers to this 96 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: sort of I guess you call it like that. There's 97 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of like right wing critique 98 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: of unions that has to do with like, well, okay, 99 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: so we don't want workers to organize, we don't want 100 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: them to reflective power at all. But then there's also 101 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, but but the reason that it works in 102 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot of cases because it's able to tap into 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: a sort of like into these structural problems that a 104 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: lot of unions have. And I think so my understanding 105 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: of how he always organizing has been going and correct 106 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that I've been interested in is that, like, 107 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: unlike a lot of other campaigns that you've seen, even 108 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: specifically with Amazon, but like a lot of other the 109 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: sort of the campaigns that are getting a lot of press, like, 110 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: you're not active, Like your goal isn't to just get 111 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: like recognition as a colected bargaining in it. Right. That's 112 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: another key part of our key difference between solid or 113 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: unionism business unionism. UM. In business unionism, you're you're. What 114 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: defines you as a union is whether you are legally 115 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: recognized by the state, by n l R b um, 116 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: by the appointed government body. Um. That is the point 117 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: at which the folks in these organizations like, are we 118 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: a union or are we not? Okay, let's let's do 119 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: an election. Let's follow all these rules that, by the way, 120 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: we're designed to demobilize us century ago. But let's follow 121 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: these rules. Let's try to fight in the courts UH 122 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: to be recognized as a union. And then once we're 123 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: a union, then we can fight for a legal contract 124 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: that has benefited a lot of people in different ways. 125 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm not you know what I mean, like, but that 126 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: approach is different than solidity unism, where It's like, we 127 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: know our power is in the workplace, on the shop floor, 128 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: where our power based on our unity and numbers as 129 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: co workers. We see this when we walk out and 130 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: within a month they give us a raise. Along would 131 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: it have taken to get a raise if we went 132 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: for an l ORB election. Yeah, what organization are we 133 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: even building in that way? And so um our. Instead 134 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: of seeking legal recognition and waging our uh uh struggle 135 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: against bosses in the courts, we are choosing to wage 136 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: engage in struggle in the shop floor where we are 137 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: the experts, where we have the power, where we have 138 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: the organization, where we are doing the work, where that 139 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: is our home turf. Um, we have more power. They're like, 140 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: it makes more sensitive build power where we have power, 141 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: not in the institutions that were specifically designed to disempower 142 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: us and give large employers upper hand. Um. All the 143 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: different ways that they can manipulate how the votes happen, 144 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: what is considered part of the voting unit, um, the 145 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: contract negotiation process, I mean all of these legal hurdles. 146 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: I mean, for the vast majority of workers, you'll need 147 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: lawyers to be even understand how to engage in that world. 148 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: That's not our world. It was not built for us 149 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: to be in. It was built to control us. And 150 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: so um, it just doesn't make logical sense to try 151 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: to wage our struggle in that arena. We should be 152 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: in waging it in the places that we work and 153 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: so um. That Yeah, that's I think another core UM 154 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: principal solidity unism like build power where we have it, 155 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: um and that's the shop floor. Yeah, and I think, 156 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean that's something that I've seen like in when 157 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: I was in college. There there's a big dress you 158 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: need and organization campaign and it kind of they had 159 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: this huge problem which was that Okay, well they were 160 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: trying to do they were trying to get a National 161 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board like vote under Trump. But they couldn't 162 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: do it because if you know, because because the National 163 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board was controlled by just like the even 164 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: even by National Labor Relations Board standards like like just 165 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: unbelievably anti union, like viscerally anti worker forces. It was like, well, 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: if we try to get a vote, like there's a 167 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,599 Speaker 1: chance they could just you know, like literally destroy the 168 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: right like destroy the organizing rights of all grad students 169 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: of the country. And yeah, and you get you get 170 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: that with the Nissan election or something like that. Yeah, yeah, 171 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: and definitely delayed it. Yeah, and it's it's you know, 172 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: and yeah, I think this this is a trap that 173 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: like a lot of people, even even people who are 174 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: really highly organized like get stuck in where you know, 175 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: and the like. Eventually, uh, the grand students just like 176 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: essentially it's just started doing walkouts because that was you know, 177 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: that that was the thing they could do when they 178 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: start doing their own strikes until they weren't like legally recognized, 179 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: because that was the thing that you could do to 180 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, actually fight in a terrain that wasn't just 181 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: inherently rigged against you. So okay, so you've you've you've 182 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 1: you've decided to take to take a fight in the workplace, 183 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: like on the shop floor where where you're where you're 184 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: at your strongest. What does that actually look like in 185 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: terms of actions, in terms of organization. Yeah, honestly, I 186 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: think it's simpler and more rudimentary. Um then one might 187 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: think or that you might read about and you know, 188 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: an academic article or something analyzing or I think it 189 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: comes down to comes down to building community, comes down 190 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: to building culture and the principles of the community and 191 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: culture that you build together with their coworkers is one 192 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: where we value ourselves and each other. We respect ourselves 193 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: and each other, and that means that we fight for 194 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: what is fair in the workplace. That means that we 195 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: maintain integrity. Any time a boss disrespects one of us, 196 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: we need to confront it. We we need to address it. Uh. 197 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: If not immediately, uh soon after. In numbers, UM, it 198 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: means if we're getting overworked and underpaid, then we need 199 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: to strategize and figure out how do we how do 200 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: we compel the employer to stop overworking and underpaying us, 201 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: How do we hit them in a place that they 202 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: are forced to respe spect and um as it goes 203 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: in the world we are today, it's always the numbers, 204 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: It's always the money, it's always the profit. So UM 205 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: what that means on the day to day, I mean 206 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: m Amazon warehouses are a very isolating place. UM. Amazon 207 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: has basically uh gigified warehouse work. You know, it's like 208 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: the uber for warehouse where you can pick up shifts, 209 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: you can you know, extra shifts, you can take uh 210 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: furlough days, you know, called them videos. UM. Many warehouses 211 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: like you're you're work the ten twelve hour shift and 212 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: you're for that entire time you're near one or two 213 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: people max. Because they're spaced out and it's loud, and 214 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: there's machinery and your packing boxes and and so UM. 215 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: On top of that, you know that everyday dehumanizing. It's 216 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: also um, you're pushed to work faster and faster. UM. 217 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: It's difficult to have you know, deep human and direction 218 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: when you're busting your ass moving you know, thirty to 219 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: forty five pound packages as quickly as you can. UM. 220 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: And so the day to day of building and fighting 221 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: in the workplace, building community means uh. For example, every 222 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: week we have a potluck during lunch, bring coworkers together, 223 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: new coworkers that you know someone could start last week. 224 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: That's something that we hear a lot. You know. Part 225 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: of the challenge, it's the turnover is so high? How 226 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: can you possibly organized turnover so high? UM. That is 227 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: a specific weapon that boss is used against us. High 228 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,359 Speaker 1: turnover means what it means we frequently have new coworkers, 229 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: harder to build relationship and organization. It means that the 230 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: job feels more precarious, so people are always uh afraid 231 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: that will lose our job. You know, we could get fired. 232 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: We could uh they could change uh staffing numbers that 233 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: could close warehouses. It create you know, as a tool 234 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: higher turnover. They just they turned through workers. Okay, who 235 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: who's willing to do the most work for the lowest 236 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: pay and sacrifice the most of their body? Okay? If 237 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: if you can't handle it, then you quit. If you can, 238 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: then you stay in here. Okay, let's find the workers 239 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: in society that are most able to you know, produce 240 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: the most that so on and so forth and so 241 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: basic things you know, having every day. Uh. Sometimes it's 242 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: just like talking with your coworkers is something that is 243 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: that they try to keep you from doing in the workplace, 244 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: And by engaging conversation, you're already resisting that isolation, already resisting. UM. 245 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: Boss is trying to just control everything, keep everyone divided. 246 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: So weekly pot lunches, UM having meetings inside or outside 247 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: of the workplace, coming together, what are the issues that 248 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: we care about? UM? How do we bring how do 249 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: we build more unity around these issues that we know 250 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: many people care about. Isn't doing a petition people sign 251 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: on together? Are we delivering the petition? And the group. Um. 252 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: If the management doesn't respond, it doesn't give us a 253 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: reasonable response. How do we escalate? Do we need to 254 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: walk out? Do we need to take other action? UM? 255 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: Any time we see a manager disres disrespecting a coworker, UM, 256 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: how do we post up next to them, pull out 257 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: a notepads, start taking notes? Ask questions? UM, we're a witness, 258 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: you know. How do we defend each other in all 259 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: of these basic ways? How are we addressing um and 260 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: being honest with ourselves and each other? Of uh? Just 261 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: the depth of disrespect when they're waiting for us outside 262 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: of the bathrooms to write us out for time off pass, 263 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: when they're telling us to work faster when you know 264 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: we're already on a ten hour shift. We're on our 265 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: ten of the ten hour shift. They sent a bunch 266 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: of people home and are forcing us to finish all 267 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: the work for a small number of people. Do we 268 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: continue putting up with it or do we immediately walk out? 269 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: Or do we talk to their co works about what 270 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: we want to do? Just being mindful of being honest 271 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: about what how we are being treated, what is fair, 272 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: what is not and taking the necessary action to UH 273 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: demand the the fairness, the respect that each of that deserves. 274 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: I think, like that's what the workplace struggle looks like. Um, 275 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, And I think it comes down to 276 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: building that community with each other and then building the 277 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: culture of not putting up with bullshit, defending each other, 278 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: looking out for each other. Um, there's them, there's an US, UM, 279 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: make sure you know whatside you're on UM, and you know, 280 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: I think that's the that's the foundation of it. Yeah. 281 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: I think that the aspect, especially of culture building is 282 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: really interesting to me because I think that's something that's 283 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: not really talked about much with with with the organizing 284 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: efforts in both because you know, a lot of like 285 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 1: a lot of book is discussed with you know, it's 286 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: it's especially in academic circles when when when you're when 287 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: you're just you know, when when when you have people 288 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: writing about union organizing, and when even when sort of 289 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: like other union organizers are writing about unions, is that, Yeah, 290 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: you don't hear much about the cultural aspects, and you 291 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: don't hear much about just resisting the actual like psychological 292 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: degradation that you get. And that strikes me I think 293 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: also as as yeah, as as you've been saying struct 294 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: something that's that's very important, not discussed enough as I 295 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: mean both says just something that that is a goal 296 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: in itself, like not having this sort of you know, 297 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: not not having the just sort of horrible de meeting 298 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: and abusive sort of tyranny of the boss is just 299 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: like existing as this kind of like normal force. But 300 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: then also like yeah, that destructing something that is really 301 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: important for anyone who's who's thinking about organizing, is you know, 302 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: getting getting people, getting people to organize around just like 303 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: howe getting people to organize around just this the sort 304 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: of like the psychological decordation, like I think is really 305 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: important because otherwise, you know, you get you can get 306 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: you can just get these cultures where like I mean, 307 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: I remember I had a job where I was in 308 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: like we had a union, but like it didn't I 309 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: mean I was so I was I was at temp 310 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: workers where I wasn't in the union, like they had 311 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: a union, and it just sort of didn't do anything, 312 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: and no one like you and this this is a 313 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: real source and sort of right reing resentment because the 314 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: union just didn't do anything, and then you know everyone's 315 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: getting treated terribly like by by the bosses and by 316 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: sort upper management and no one. But it never even 317 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: like it never really like is on a culture level, 318 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: never occurred to them to sort of like use the 319 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: union for that, because that's not really what the union 320 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: was there for. It was just the sort of like 321 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: it was just this thing that existed, and like occasionally 322 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: when contracts came up, it would pier and I guess, 323 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: on on On that note, one of the things I 324 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: was also wondering is what sort of so for for 325 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: for for people who are who are interested in their 326 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: own workplaces and starting doing this kind of organizing and 327 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: starting to sort of, i mean just fight back against 328 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: their bosses in ways that don't you know, either because 329 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: they don't want to or because they literally can't, which 330 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: I think is is true of a lot of people 331 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: like who who want to organize outside of the business 332 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: neion model. How how do you how did you all 333 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: start organizing like this? And what what sort of immediate 334 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: lessons do you think people should should take away and 335 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: should sort of bring in bring into their own organizing 336 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: in the workplace. Yeah, um, I think at the base 337 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: of the is the um I guess I mentioned something 338 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: like this earlier, but that we we can organize ourselves. 339 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: We can. You know, if you're talking if you have 340 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: two co workers that you're friends with, and UM, you 341 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: say like, hey, let's meet up and talk about what's 342 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: going on at work, you're starting to organize, you know. UM. 343 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: And I think part of part of the damage, part 344 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: of the harm that business unionism has done. And also 345 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: just I don't know, hierarchical organizing Umlinsky and organizing UM. 346 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: I think they're all part of uh sort of connected 347 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: school of thought where it's like organizing and you know, 348 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: building a union is something that like you need to 349 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: be like professionals to or you know, they're experts at 350 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: it U experts and then if you're not an expert, 351 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: then you need to consultant expert figure out how to 352 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: do it UM. And I think that's bullshit. I think 353 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: it's if you're a worker, then uh, you can be 354 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: a union organizer. If you're a worker and you talk 355 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: with you know, another worker about what's going on in 356 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: your workplace, like you're already starting to organize. UM. Like 357 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: I said earlier, if you're calling a meeting, if you're 358 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, and and workers do this all the time 359 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: confronting management about this respect you know, I think it's 360 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: very much more frequently on an individual basis. But it's 361 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: a matter of like connecting your issue with a couple 362 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: other coworkers and then figure out, Okay, well, um, what 363 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: what's our next step? But we need more numbers? How 364 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: do we you know, how do we build more numbers? Uh? 365 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: If each of us can invite one more person, that 366 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: six people, if you know, if the six of us 367 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: can are starting a petition, we could probably get you know, 368 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: signature is a fifty or sixty, you know, like it's 369 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: it's step by step and saying if we want to 370 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: build organization, we can do it from the bottom up. 371 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: We can start it um and we can figure this out. 372 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: I mean, every even within the same company, even within 373 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: the same company in the same city there you know, 374 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: I work at UM a delivery station, Engage Park, other 375 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: delivery stations in the city of Chicago have a completely 376 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: different culture, you know, the neighborhood that it's in the 377 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: workers that are the bosses, you know, And so even 378 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: in the same company, the same type of workplace in 379 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: the same city, it's gonna be a different story for 380 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: how that workplace is gonna you know, get united, come together, UM, 381 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: figure things out, build organization, and it's just anyone there 382 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: that is thinking about that that that kind of just 383 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: begins the process of putting together. They six, all right, 384 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: we need to start building up some numbers. We need 385 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: to start having, you know, addressing some issues that people 386 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: care about. And there's always i mean, there's always the 387 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, overworked and underpaid, and that's gonna exist everywhere. 388 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: You can always go after those issues, but frequently there 389 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: are small ones like our first issue was a water 390 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: petition uh or or or or at was access to 391 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: water UM, and this is how we started as an 392 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: organization UM. Basically, they were taking away bottled water. They 393 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: said we were leaving around too much garbage. They're saying 394 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: bottled water is only there for the summer, and now 395 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: that's not the summer. That whatever. They're trying to save 396 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: a few dollars a day on bottled water to make 397 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: us you know, work without it UM, And we said, 398 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: that's fucked up. We're doing warehouse work like this, hard 399 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: manual labor, and it's hot in here. We need a 400 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: bottle water. It's you know, not just that broken, unfiltered 401 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: fountain across the warehouse that you can't even get to 402 00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: while you're working. Um. And so, uh, just a few 403 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: of us that we're talking at break it was like, okay, 404 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: well there's six of us here. Well we're kind of 405 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, this is the this is the break room 406 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: at work. They're like managers walking around their cameras in here, 407 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: like let's meet outside, uh and figure this out. UM. 408 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 1: So you know, we we met at a at a 409 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: Crispy Cream down on like ninety third um, and uh 410 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: we just basically said like, well, how are we gonna 411 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: get this water? We've been asking management? Uh you know 412 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: they've given us the same reasons. We need to do 413 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: something bigger that that they can't ignore. Um, how about 414 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: a petition? And so we just drafted it. The six 415 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: of us we drafted it. We went around. We got 416 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: hundred fifty signatures I think from our coworkers are just 417 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: like basic commands. We need bottled water stocked every day. 418 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: They need to be you know, filters need to be clean. 419 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: We need to get a be able to take a 420 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: break to get this water. Um. And we delivered uh, 421 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: the hundred fifty signatures to management. UM. I think it 422 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: was within thirty or forty minutes, they drove to a 423 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: grocery store or bought you know, went to the nearest 424 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: pizza bought every case a bottle. Why they have brought 425 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: it and passed it out to everyone. We're like, oh, okay, 426 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: like that was you know, people like that's just hey, 427 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: we gotta do a petition for this thing. We gotta 428 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: do you know what this thing? Probably it was that 429 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: I don't want to say easy, because it's definitely not 430 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: easy to like. But the steps, the step by step 431 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: of like how do you begin, how do you get 432 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: something started? How do you start building some immunity? Um, 433 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: These are steps that we have taken. These are you know, 434 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: what we think is can be applicable UM with everyone's 435 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: own kind of personal tweaks based on you know, your 436 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: own workplace. UM, to start getting something going from more coworkers, 437 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: to start realizing, oh yeah, like we should be in 438 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: more control of what's happening around here because we're the 439 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: ones that are doing all the work. We're the ones 440 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: that are suffering the most from it in our bodies, 441 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: getting ground down from doing it. And so um, yeah, 442 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: I think that I think I look back to a 443 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: previous question do but like how we started, how you 444 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: engage in the struggle and just like what that looks 445 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: like for building building something up from nothing to something 446 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: like that's what that's what we you know what I mean, 447 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: that's what we did. Yeah, from from what I've seen, 448 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: you all have been extremely effective like at at getting 449 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: management to recognize it, but essentially getting them to like 450 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: a seed to your demands because like this this this 451 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of organizing like solidity unied what what I'm trying 452 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: to say, it's all there to unist works like it's 453 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: not like like and you know and yeah, it's it's 454 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: a thing. I think one of one of the things 455 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: you're talking about is like, yeah, it's like when like 456 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: when you win even on something fairly small, right, and 457 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: you can show people that this works and that like 458 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: you know, if if, if, if you actually come together 459 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: on something, you can force management to do stuff like 460 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: I think that also become becomes an important sort of 461 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: like I don't know if catalysts is the right word, 462 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: but it becomes it becomes becomes an engine that like 463 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: feeds itself definitely, I mean, especially for a big company 464 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: like Amazon, like I think the most common perspective, at 465 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: least at the start, is like such a big company, 466 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: like what could we possibly do? They have a thousand warehouses, 467 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: like what you know, they could choose to close one 468 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: and open another one. You know, they do this, or 469 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: they could suddenly you know, and with two weeks notice 470 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: like change the schedule from an evening time to overnight time, 471 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: which is what they did to us. Basically, um, what 472 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: can we possibly do? And so you know, but I 473 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: think it's like the moment, it's like there's uh on 474 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: a cliff or what do you call, like the watershed 475 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: a point, like the moment you kind of take that 476 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: first collective action and then get what you want. Um. 477 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: It's like, oh wait, it's not as like within this 478 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: space like we can actually make our lives a lot 479 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: better pretty quickly. Yeah, we just come together and do 480 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: it ourselves and recognize the power that we have. UM. 481 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: And I think it's like hmm. That's one of the 482 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: reasons why it works so well is because it is 483 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: different from the mainstream approach, which UM bosses and these 484 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: companies understand very well and can easily maneuver around, such as, 485 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: oh if we do if if one of our managers 486 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: does something wrong. What will happen next is well, receive 487 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: one of our lawyer as we'll receive a grievance from 488 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: one of their representative lawyers, and you know, this business union, 489 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: we'll have this many months respond and then we can 490 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: do this and then you know, uh, we'll do this 491 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: paperwork and have this legal back and forth and then 492 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: maybe we'll address this issue six to twelve months down 493 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: the line. UM, no disruption, you know, nothing to worry about. UM, 494 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: Let the bosses run amuck and we'll get a six 495 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: to twelve month at start to you know, and maybe 496 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: get a slap on the wrist and a fixed wherever 497 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: you need to or pay small fine. UM as opposed 498 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: to that's business units, like as opposed to Southern unism, 499 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: where it's like they just disrespected us in a way 500 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: that like we're not trying to put up with, Like 501 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: we are hurting. We can't even finish the shift without 502 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: hurting ourselves more. We're just gonna group up the walk 503 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: out right now. UM, they're gonna figure out, they're gonna 504 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: have to figure out how to get the rest of 505 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: these packages out without us, UM, and when we come 506 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: back tomorrow, Uh, we'll see, we'll see if they want 507 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: to keep treating us the same way. UM. And so 508 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: it's like to me, you know, we we've had basic 509 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: basic management confrontations where either immediately uh you know, they 510 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: were understaffing and we grouped up rolled into the office 511 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: just like with seven of us, not even like the 512 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: whole shift. Um, seven out of fifty people rolling office, 513 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: and you have too few people on the lines. You 514 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: you need an add extra person. We've been asking you 515 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: have it. Um, We've folded our arms within five minutes 516 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: to send an extra person over there. They're working the 517 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: rest of the shift. UM. In the in the business 518 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: union approach, like I don't even know, Like how do 519 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: you follow you know, understaffing grievance? Like what are the details? 520 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: How does that happen? Does a union representative have to 521 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: be contacted and then negotiate in some way? Um? But 522 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: that like, let's just address this right now and fix it. UM. 523 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to wait for some outside activity. Let's 524 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: just improve our working conditions right now, like confronting and 525 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: addressing it. UM. I think it just you know that's 526 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: something that Um, the bosses are left, it's less predictable 527 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: for them. It's less in their control, it's less in 528 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: their wheelhouse. Um, and I think that's a prey reason 529 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: why it works better. Yeah, And I think one of 530 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: one of the things the thing this reminds me of. 531 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the kind of stuff that unions 532 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: used to do when they were strong. Like it reminds 533 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: me of like, yeah, you're you're like c I O, 534 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: like sit down, strike, right, It's like, well, okay, if 535 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: if the manager or something we didn't we don't like 536 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: so one blows a whizzle, everyone sits down, and like 537 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: it's like it's that that kind of not just sort 538 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: of like way to go to the legal channels, but 539 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: just just like im immediately taking action is like it's 540 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: it's something that it's like it's it's something that worked, 541 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: and it's you know like that that's that's the kind 542 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: of stuff that like build the built the original like 543 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: labor movement. And it's really interesting to me that, like 544 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: because because I think there's a lot of like I 545 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: think a lot of people look back at that era 546 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: sort of like nostalgically and go like, well, Okay, if 547 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: unions were stronger, we could do this, but like that's 548 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: not really true, you you can't actually just like like 549 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: you can do the same things that like, you know, 550 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: you're like nineteen thirties c I O was doing like 551 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: and and and if you know, and you don't you 552 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: don't need the kind of institutional backing that that those 553 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: people had. If if like if if you're organized enough 554 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: in in your in your specific location, I think that's 555 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: a really interesting I don't know, I'm purious if you 556 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: agree with it, seems like it's kind of interesting lesson 557 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: about like what happens to the labor movement, where like 558 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: the more the more you get into this sort of 559 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: like okay, well, the the union is now two lawyers 560 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: sitting down with each other, right the what what you're 561 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: doing basically is and then like this is this is 562 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: this is explicitly what the National Labor Relations Act was, right, Like, 563 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: it was an attempt to get labor, labor and capital 564 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: sit down at the table and stop fighting so that 565 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: they could like you know, basically seleft production could go on, 566 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: and like some sometimes sometimes that that you know, sometimes 567 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: I favor the union. Right, sometimes you'd have the president 568 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: be like like the actual like US president would be like, okay, 569 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: you come you like steal company. You have to like 570 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: give workers what they're asking for because steel production shut down, right, 571 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: But like, you know, the problem with that is that 572 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: it's based on like it's based on at all costs 573 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: trying to sort of preserve like it's based on cost 574 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: like trying to preserve the labor piece. And you know, 575 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: I mean there's reasons for that too, Like yeah, like 576 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like like obviously there's there's any time 577 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: you take a direct action, there's a risk, and yeah, 578 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna like, you know, I'm not gonna 579 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: be like like it's it's hard to be really mad 580 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: at people who don't want to go on strike because 581 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: they don't like because you know, how how am I 582 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: going to feed my family? Etcetera, etcetera. But like, you know, 583 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: bringing like having that kind of militancy in the workplace, 584 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: just you know, without without any kind of formal recognition, 585 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: I think is an extremely powerful tactic. And is I 586 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: mean literally how the original labor movement like got built. 587 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 1: It's difficult, though, and it can be yeah, yeah, you know, 588 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: and it's like I think you you posed kind of 589 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: the question or or or kind of questioning the idea 590 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: like where did how did the labor movement get to 591 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: where it's at if the origins were more conscious UM, 592 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: in the ways that you've been describing UM. I think that. UM. 593 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's definitely you know, the risk is 594 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: always there. You're always confronting the power. I mean in 595 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: the workplace. When it comes down to it like that, 596 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: obviously the power dynamics shift, and it's more complex than 597 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, bosses have more power than workers unless workers 598 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: organized and workers have more power than bosses. That is true. 599 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: And also for example, on the day to day, you know, 600 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: the boss can fire anyone and then you're you know, 601 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: however you end up dealing with it. Uh, you know, 602 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: you could be out anywhere between two or twenty paychecks 603 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: until something is resolved legally or even through direct Actually, 604 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: there's obviously very directly oppressive our dynamic there. UM. And 605 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: I think that UM. To speak truth to power, to 606 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: directly confronted UM, of course, it's frightening. I mean I 607 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: would be lying if you know, like I'm I'm you know, 608 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: talking on this on this podcast about doing this and 609 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: yeah we're doing this, and like you know, I'm not 610 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: gonna pretend that like when we were even when we 611 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: were in a forty person mass, you know, confronting management, 612 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: addressing that everyone together, it's still like, you know, there's 613 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: there's there's still this power dynamic here and we're punching 614 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: up like it's a punch, but like we're punging up 615 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: to someone that's like a big, heavier um adversary, and 616 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: so it's like they could swing back to like you 617 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: gotta gotta be ready to and so UM. I think 618 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: that what I'm describing on a kind of like face 619 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: to face and the personal that moment in the workplace, 620 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: I think on a broader scale also exists where it's 621 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: like waging an extended you know, organizing struggle to be 622 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: fighting this fight millions of times in many different ways, 623 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: and then continually trying to bring people together. You know, 624 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: people move on because everything that's happening in life. They 625 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: got evicted from their place, so they had to move 626 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: to a different place far away. Okay, suddenly they had 627 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: to leave a job and they were someone that was 628 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: contributing a lot to the organizing. Something happened. Someone has 629 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: a family member that uh, you know that they need 630 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: to spend a little bit more time with Um, everything 631 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: that's happening, everything that's making you know, reduced seeing our 632 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: time as working people to take care of ourselves and 633 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 1: each other, like all of this, we're fighting against all 634 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: of this, and um, they're definitely ups and downs. They're 635 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: definitely times it was like thing like where you know, 636 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: and then it seems I get times, Uh, all of 637 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: the struggles and life like it's like you take like 638 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: two steps forward and then two steps backwards. Get it. 639 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: And so you know, there's definitely a difficult reality permitting everything. 640 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: You know, all of the organizing wins, the advance that 641 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about. We need to be fully honest about 642 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: that and also recognize that there's still like nothing more. 643 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: There's like nothing more beautiful powerful, There's there's no there's 644 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: nothing that feels better than that moment when you when 645 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: the power dynamic was like this and you pull something 646 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: off and it's like yeah, I was like, oh, like 647 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: you you just did what we wanted you know and 648 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: more and then now like you're being real careful with us, 649 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: like we we change things here, like our lives are 650 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: better concretely, um, and we made it happen, and uh, 651 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, I think those are like celebrating the winds 652 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: and like taking joy, not always thinking so far, Okay, 653 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: we've got more to go. Yeah, they're always there's always 654 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: more of that. Um. We can and have to be building. 655 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: And let's make sure that we're taking the time to recognize, 656 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: um and celebrate each of the steps that we are 657 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: um advancing, so that you know, we we don't get 658 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: lost in you know, assuming in the cycle of like 659 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: seeking permanent, infinite growth and organizing and being constantly stressed 660 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: out about it, rather than like taking those breathers, taking 661 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: those moments. Okay, like let's take this and strive, let's 662 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: do this and stay. That's not burnout. Um. Yeah, I 663 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: think that's all part of figuring out how to how 664 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,439 Speaker 1: to how to make it happen. Yeah, And I think 665 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: that's that's important. I think that that that's an important 666 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: thing to understand with any kind of organizing, which is 667 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,399 Speaker 1: that like yeah, if if if you like if if 668 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: if if, there's never sort of a moment in which 669 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: you're reflecting on or or just celebrating like that the 670 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: goals that you've actually accomplished, Right, you're just gonna sort 671 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: of be endlessly bashing your head against the wall. And 672 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: you know that this is this is like yeah, I 673 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: mean this is this is sort of a burnout machine. 674 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: This is a a way that you know, it's something 675 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: that also just sort of feeds despair, which is that yeah, 676 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: like you know, like yeah, okay, your your victory is 677 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: a small victory, but it is a real one. And 678 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: that's that's something that even in the face of sort 679 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: of like the Cyclopean horror of like just the world 680 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: that we're living in, like no, your your small victories 681 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: due lead up to bigger ones and yeah, and you know, 682 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: and getting people to lose sight of that is a 683 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: like it' it's it made your way. The system is 684 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,439 Speaker 1: held together by just sort of like manufacturing hopelessness, even 685 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: when there there there are reasons for hope, and there 686 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: are reasons to sort of look at what you've done 687 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: and go, hey, we we won this thing. Definitely, Yeah, 688 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: I think that's a I guess unexpectedly cheery for this 689 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: show not to end on Do you have anything else? Yeah, 690 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: I mean I think we touched on a lot um. 691 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: I guess I have a usual pits or some version 692 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: of it um. But I think, uh, maybe something to 693 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: bring together different elements that we touched on and bringing 694 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: some of the sure really hopefulness and also put out 695 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 1: some encouragement too. I think now is a time where 696 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of uncertainty and I'm uh, you know, 697 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: definitely and a global week to week or year to 698 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: year scale, but also on an individual level. I think 699 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: a lot of individuals right now, UM likely those that 700 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: are listening UM that that end up listening to this 701 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: or UM those that are like seeing what's happening around 702 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: the world, is like, what is my role in all 703 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,959 Speaker 1: of this? What am I trying to do? Different people 704 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: are joining different organizations and and and trying to figure 705 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: out how they should be living their lives, what the 706 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: what principles they should be living out, how they should 707 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: be applying themselves to for example, UM, combat and dismantle 708 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: UM I don't know, uh capitalism and and and uh 709 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, prison industrial complex and reverse climate destruction and 710 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 1: and find fascism everything all of existential threats that we face. 711 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: It's like, what, you know, what is my role? And 712 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: I think, UM, if if you at all have the 713 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: capacity and curiosity, UM two engage in some of this 714 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: deep work yourself for building community relationships, culture among UM. 715 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: You know, just with workers, build building your own organization, 716 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: building your own acts of resistance, building your own forms 717 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: of of of you know, own forms of reclaiming your 718 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: time and minds and bodies, and build something beautiful that 719 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: can you know, be part of a broader movement that 720 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 1: that you know, lifts up working people, that kind of 721 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: gets back what we are building and what we what 722 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: we deserve. UM. You know, think about think about the 723 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: logistics industry, think about warehouse work, UM, think about joining 724 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: in UM and UH, you know it's uh it's hard work. 725 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: It's hard manual labor, it's hard mental and emotional work. UM. 726 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: But I think this is the future of what the winning, 727 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: fighting uh successful movement UM will need. UM. And I 728 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: think many people engaging and building more genuine, more worker focus, 729 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: worker centered, worker run uh stolidarity unions of our own 730 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: democratic horizontal bottom up UM. I think building this way 731 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: and connecting with each other, I think this is the 732 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: way forward. I think this is the examples that we need. 733 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: We need more people engaging in this work. We need 734 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: more uh more of that attention, energy and focus, Like 735 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: how do we build the real stuff? UM, that's gonna 736 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: be the powerful organizational influence to transform society and and 737 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: avert these forms of extinction and continued extraction, exploitation, oppression 738 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: of all of us. UM, join us, Join, join the struggle, 739 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: get get some of these jobs. Talk to your co workers, 740 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: build something that. It's really that simple. UM. And uh yeah, 741 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: that's my that's my every day pitch. UM. So, if 742 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: if people want to find Amazonians United specifically, where where 743 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: where can they find y'all? UM? So in Chicago. So 744 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: Amazonians United Chicago Land, UM is our name. We have 745 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: a Facebook page, we have a Twitter. UM. Those are 746 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: probably where we're most active. UM, and where you can 747 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 1: follow and get into contact with us, Tweet out us, 748 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: message us on Facebook. UM. If you're really so inclined, UM, 749 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,359 Speaker 1: you can email us at a you Chicago land at 750 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. UM. But otherwise, yeah, just look up, 751 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, follow our social media. You'll see what we 752 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: post occasionally about what's going on. UM. And uh, you know, 753 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: feel free to reach out, get into contact, ask any 754 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,800 Speaker 1: questions you might have, UM, and you know, let's connect, 755 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: let's build community. Yeah. And that's that's a Chicagoland at 756 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: a Chicago Land on Twitter by the way. Yeah. UM, yeah, 757 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: sweet uh ted, thank you, thank you so thank you 758 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 1: so much for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, 759 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: that's really great. Um yeah, if you want to find 760 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: us at you can find us at happen Here pod 761 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram, and cool Zone Media in the same places. 762 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: Um yeah, go go, go organize with your coworkers, go 763 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:13,359 Speaker 1: do cool things, go be do well better place. Yes, yes, yes, sure, 764 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: um yeah, thank you, thank you. It could Happen Here 765 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 766 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: from cool zone Media, visit our website cool zone media 767 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,439 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart 768 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 769 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 770 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 771 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:39,280 Speaker 1: for listening.