1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:31,316 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm about to watch a VHS tape that I 2 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:35,916 Speaker 1: haven't seen for more than thirty five years. It's the 3 00:00:36,036 --> 00:00:38,076 Speaker 1: dress rehearsal of a play I took part in when 4 00:00:38,116 --> 00:00:40,796 Speaker 1: I was ten years old, the nineteen eighty five New 5 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:44,836 Speaker 1: Bedford High School Drama Club's performance of Peter Pan the Musical. 6 00:00:48,756 --> 00:00:51,876 Speaker 1: My mom somehow finagled away for me to audition, even 7 00:00:51,876 --> 00:00:54,996 Speaker 1: though I was only in fourth grade and I didn't 8 00:00:54,996 --> 00:00:59,036 Speaker 1: really know how to act or sing or dance. But 9 00:00:59,156 --> 00:01:02,476 Speaker 1: I got to star as the rabbit. If you've seen 10 00:01:02,516 --> 00:01:05,396 Speaker 1: the play and don't remember a rabbit being involved, that 11 00:01:05,596 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 1: is because as far as I can tell, the rabbit 12 00:01:08,316 --> 00:01:10,676 Speaker 1: is not an actual role in Peter Pan the Musical. 13 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:14,356 Speaker 1: I think the directors just made it up. My entire 14 00:01:14,436 --> 00:01:17,116 Speaker 1: part involved hanging out on the back of the stage silently, 15 00:01:17,636 --> 00:01:21,396 Speaker 1: pretty much blending into the Neverland background. Why would any 16 00:01:21,436 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: self respecting high school drama teacher go to all that 17 00:01:24,436 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 1: trouble for a talentless ten year old kid. I think 18 00:01:27,716 --> 00:01:30,796 Speaker 1: it's because after meeting me, they couldn't really say no. 19 00:01:31,596 --> 00:01:34,876 Speaker 1: You see, back then, I was obsessed with Peter Pan. 20 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:37,596 Speaker 1: My family had the album, which I had worn out 21 00:01:37,636 --> 00:01:40,356 Speaker 1: by listening to it over and over and over again. 22 00:01:41,116 --> 00:01:43,676 Speaker 1: Our home movies are filled with me forcing my older 23 00:01:43,676 --> 00:01:47,716 Speaker 1: cousins to take part in impromptu performances, always with me 24 00:01:47,876 --> 00:01:58,316 Speaker 1: playing Peter Pan never. When I was four, my mom 25 00:01:58,396 --> 00:02:01,196 Speaker 1: left my newborn brother at home in Massachusetts to take 26 00:02:01,236 --> 00:02:04,116 Speaker 1: me to Broadway to see the play. My mom says 27 00:02:04,116 --> 00:02:05,996 Speaker 1: that when I got back to the hotel, I spent 28 00:02:06,036 --> 00:02:09,476 Speaker 1: the entire night jumping between the rooms two beds, claiming 29 00:02:09,476 --> 00:02:11,356 Speaker 1: that I was flying to Neverland so that I could 30 00:02:11,396 --> 00:02:14,236 Speaker 1: have fun and stay a kid forever, just like Peter Pan. 31 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:23,316 Speaker 1: I distinctly remember my mom's reaction that night, as I 32 00:02:23,356 --> 00:02:27,316 Speaker 1: was jumping from mattress to mattress. She couldn't hold back tears. 33 00:02:27,836 --> 00:02:30,836 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I never really understood why, 34 00:02:30,876 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 1: But rewatching the musical as an adult, I finally got 35 00:02:34,236 --> 00:02:37,556 Speaker 1: what made my mom sob If you haven't seen the musical, 36 00:02:37,716 --> 00:02:40,796 Speaker 1: the plot involves Peter Pan taking Wendy to Neverland to 37 00:02:40,836 --> 00:02:44,996 Speaker 1: have a bunch of adventures think pirates, lost boys, all 38 00:02:45,036 --> 00:02:48,276 Speaker 1: that stuff. But eventually Wendy wants to go back to 39 00:02:48,316 --> 00:02:51,116 Speaker 1: her normal life, so Peter takes her back to London 40 00:02:51,276 --> 00:02:53,876 Speaker 1: and promises he'll come get her for more adventures soon, 41 00:02:54,316 --> 00:02:56,836 Speaker 1: but when Peter finally returns at the end of the play, 42 00:02:57,196 --> 00:03:00,876 Speaker 1: he's devastated. Even though Wendy promised she'd never get older, 43 00:03:01,236 --> 00:03:05,796 Speaker 1: she accidentally grew up, and Peter can't believe it. He 44 00:03:05,836 --> 00:03:08,116 Speaker 1: tells middle aged Wendy that she's not allowed to go 45 00:03:08,156 --> 00:03:11,836 Speaker 1: back to Neverland and have fun ever again, because she's 46 00:03:11,836 --> 00:03:19,356 Speaker 1: too grown up. Watching the play in my forties wasn't 47 00:03:19,356 --> 00:03:21,716 Speaker 1: as fun as doing so as a kid. In a 48 00:03:21,836 --> 00:03:24,276 Speaker 1: turn of events that would surely be mind blowing to 49 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:28,196 Speaker 1: my ten year old self, I have gotten old, like 50 00:03:28,356 --> 00:03:30,876 Speaker 1: middle aged Wendy. I now have a job and a 51 00:03:30,916 --> 00:03:35,476 Speaker 1: mortgage and responsibilities to worry about. Even though I clearly 52 00:03:35,516 --> 00:03:39,716 Speaker 1: planned to prioritize having fun forever, that didn't really happen. 53 00:03:40,476 --> 00:03:42,676 Speaker 1: These days, I don't have time to jump around on 54 00:03:42,716 --> 00:03:47,116 Speaker 1: mattresses or lead fake musical singlongs with my cousins. Most 55 00:03:47,116 --> 00:03:49,516 Speaker 1: of my days are so busy it doesn't feel like 56 00:03:49,516 --> 00:03:52,676 Speaker 1: I have time for any fun at all, And that 57 00:03:52,716 --> 00:03:57,956 Speaker 1: realization is pretty depressing and kind of ironic, because I 58 00:03:58,036 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 1: used to pride myself on being fun. My grad school 59 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:03,996 Speaker 1: roommates and I through goofy theme parties several times a year. 60 00:04:04,636 --> 00:04:07,116 Speaker 1: My husband and I won our engagement ring playing ski 61 00:04:07,236 --> 00:04:10,516 Speaker 1: ball and a cheesy beach arcade that was literally called 62 00:04:10,636 --> 00:04:14,276 Speaker 1: the fun Orama. I used to have a lot of fun, 63 00:04:15,516 --> 00:04:19,796 Speaker 1: but lately not so much. I haven't thrown a ridiculous 64 00:04:19,836 --> 00:04:22,396 Speaker 1: party in some time, and I haven't been back to 65 00:04:22,436 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: that beach arcade in years. In fact, full disclosure, the 66 00:04:26,236 --> 00:04:28,996 Speaker 1: last time my husband and I did visit, I secretly 67 00:04:29,076 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 1: hit outside while he was wrapped up in some pinball 68 00:04:31,396 --> 00:04:36,796 Speaker 1: game and answered my work emails. So what happened? Am 69 00:04:36,836 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 1: I as doomed as middle aged Wendy was in that musical? 70 00:04:39,876 --> 00:04:42,396 Speaker 1: Are we all destined to miss out on fun as 71 00:04:42,436 --> 00:04:45,516 Speaker 1: an inevitable part of getting older? Or are there ways 72 00:04:45,556 --> 00:04:49,036 Speaker 1: to prioritize a childlike sense of goofiness and adventure well 73 00:04:49,076 --> 00:04:52,956 Speaker 1: into our later years. In this first ever double episode 74 00:04:52,956 --> 00:04:56,156 Speaker 1: of the Happiness Lab, we'll learn that it is possible 75 00:04:56,196 --> 00:04:59,156 Speaker 1: to rediscover how to have fun, and our evidence will 76 00:04:59,196 --> 00:05:02,156 Speaker 1: come not just from the scientific literature, but from a 77 00:05:02,236 --> 00:05:05,956 Speaker 1: much more personal experiment, because over the next two shows, 78 00:05:06,156 --> 00:05:09,716 Speaker 1: I will become the subject of a fun intervention or 79 00:05:10,276 --> 00:05:14,796 Speaker 1: funtervention for short, and my unorthodox attempt at finding more fun, 80 00:05:15,196 --> 00:05:19,276 Speaker 1: which spoiler is going to involve inflatable microphones, cats on leashes, 81 00:05:19,396 --> 00:05:23,116 Speaker 1: tomatoes on planes, and in New England surfing safari will 82 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:25,836 Speaker 1: wind up having a much bigger effect on my and 83 00:05:26,036 --> 00:05:32,876 Speaker 1: other people's happiness than I ever ever expected. Our minds 84 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:35,076 Speaker 1: are constantly telling us what to you to be happy. 85 00:05:35,276 --> 00:05:37,476 Speaker 1: But what if our minds are wrong? What if our 86 00:05:37,516 --> 00:05:39,916 Speaker 1: minds are lying to us, leading us away from what 87 00:05:39,956 --> 00:05:42,596 Speaker 1: will really make us happy. The good news is that 88 00:05:42,676 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 1: understanding the science of the mind can point us all 89 00:05:44,996 --> 00:05:48,396 Speaker 1: back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness 90 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:57,876 Speaker 1: Lab for doctor Laurie Sanders. The idea for my funtervention 91 00:05:58,036 --> 00:06:00,556 Speaker 1: came one summer morning when I was engaged in a 92 00:06:00,676 --> 00:06:04,396 Speaker 1: not very fun one might even say soul sucking activity. 93 00:06:04,996 --> 00:06:07,916 Speaker 1: I was checking and then immediately re checking my email. 94 00:06:09,516 --> 00:06:12,436 Speaker 1: Refreshing your inbox when you know there's probably nothing new 95 00:06:12,836 --> 00:06:14,436 Speaker 1: is kind of like when you look in the fridge 96 00:06:14,476 --> 00:06:19,196 Speaker 1: over and over, pathetically hoping there'll be something else to eat. Embarrassingly, 97 00:06:19,356 --> 00:06:22,276 Speaker 1: I often find myself doing this whenever I'm bored or 98 00:06:22,316 --> 00:06:26,436 Speaker 1: avoiding some writing project that feels hard. And that's when 99 00:06:26,476 --> 00:06:30,396 Speaker 1: it happened. A new email did appear one with an 100 00:06:30,436 --> 00:06:33,316 Speaker 1: innocuous subject line, will you help me with my next book? 101 00:06:33,316 --> 00:06:35,716 Speaker 1: I promise it will be fun. It was a newsletter 102 00:06:35,796 --> 00:06:39,036 Speaker 1: from one of my favorite past podcast guests, the journalist 103 00:06:39,236 --> 00:06:42,636 Speaker 1: Katherine Price. Catherine's the author of How to Break Up 104 00:06:42,636 --> 00:06:45,636 Speaker 1: with Your Phone. In the book, she argues that will 105 00:06:45,636 --> 00:06:48,316 Speaker 1: only find true happiness if we put some work into 106 00:06:48,356 --> 00:06:52,876 Speaker 1: developing a better screen life balance. Catherine would definitely not 107 00:06:52,996 --> 00:06:54,676 Speaker 1: be a fan of the fact that I was sitting 108 00:06:54,716 --> 00:06:58,156 Speaker 1: there refreshing my inbox, so I was already feeling a 109 00:06:58,236 --> 00:07:01,236 Speaker 1: little called out when I received her message, but as 110 00:07:01,276 --> 00:07:05,196 Speaker 1: I read on, that feeling got even worse. Dear friends, 111 00:07:05,236 --> 00:07:07,076 Speaker 1: I'm at work on a new book, and I'm writing 112 00:07:07,076 --> 00:07:09,396 Speaker 1: to ask for your help. The book is about fun. 113 00:07:09,956 --> 00:07:13,236 Speaker 1: More specifically, I'm writing about how, far from being frivolous, 114 00:07:13,236 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: having fun is absolutely essential to a joyful and meaningful life. 115 00:07:17,036 --> 00:07:19,396 Speaker 1: The book Catherine was working on seemed to be tapping 116 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 1: into the very thing that I and so many other 117 00:07:22,156 --> 00:07:25,356 Speaker 1: people were missing out on in adult life. I'm hoping 118 00:07:25,396 --> 00:07:27,916 Speaker 1: you can help me out. I'm recruiting a global group 119 00:07:27,916 --> 00:07:30,396 Speaker 1: of people that I'm calling the Fun Squad. My hope 120 00:07:30,436 --> 00:07:32,116 Speaker 1: is that, in addition to helping me with the book. 121 00:07:32,116 --> 00:07:34,236 Speaker 1: You'll also get to experience some of the benefits of 122 00:07:34,276 --> 00:07:37,716 Speaker 1: fun for yourselves. I knew I needed it, so sheepishly 123 00:07:37,916 --> 00:07:40,836 Speaker 1: I signed up which hot tip you can too by 124 00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:44,476 Speaker 1: visiting how to Have Fun dot com. It did feel 125 00:07:44,556 --> 00:07:48,356 Speaker 1: a little pathetic to reveal that I, a supposed happiness expert, 126 00:07:48,556 --> 00:07:51,476 Speaker 1: was struggling to have fun, but I figured it was 127 00:07:51,516 --> 00:07:54,916 Speaker 1: just some anonymous form. It wasn't like Catherine herself was 128 00:07:54,956 --> 00:08:01,276 Speaker 1: going to be looking at which people signed up. Oh no, Hi, Laurie. 129 00:08:01,396 --> 00:08:03,156 Speaker 1: First of all, I am so psyched to see that 130 00:08:03,156 --> 00:08:05,116 Speaker 1: you signed up for the Fun Squad. It's been such 131 00:08:05,116 --> 00:08:06,756 Speaker 1: a pleasure to follow your work and get to be 132 00:08:06,796 --> 00:08:09,396 Speaker 1: a guest in the podcast. I love your tone and approach, 133 00:08:09,436 --> 00:08:11,396 Speaker 1: and I feel like we're very kindred spirits, which is 134 00:08:11,396 --> 00:08:13,556 Speaker 1: part of the reason I'm so especially excited to have 135 00:08:13,636 --> 00:08:16,676 Speaker 1: you as part of the Fun Squad. Crap, Well, the 136 00:08:16,756 --> 00:08:18,876 Speaker 1: first step is admitting you have a problem, I guess, 137 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:23,196 Speaker 1: so I wrote back and tried to be honest. Hey, Catherine, 138 00:08:23,236 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 1: your Fun Squad is coming at a time in which 139 00:08:25,316 --> 00:08:28,116 Speaker 1: I'm personally taking a hard look at what leisure looks 140 00:08:28,116 --> 00:08:30,956 Speaker 1: like in my life. I'm embarrassed at how little time 141 00:08:30,996 --> 00:08:33,876 Speaker 1: I spend taking part in fun, so it's something I'm 142 00:08:33,916 --> 00:08:37,436 Speaker 1: thinking about a lot. I hit send and then worried 143 00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:41,356 Speaker 1: that Catherine would immediately revoke my fun Squad privileges. But 144 00:08:41,516 --> 00:08:44,076 Speaker 1: when we chatted over Zoom soon after that, I was 145 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:46,876 Speaker 1: shocked at how well she understood the difficulty I was having. 146 00:08:47,476 --> 00:08:49,716 Speaker 1: Turns out that Catherine had gone through the same sort 147 00:08:49,756 --> 00:08:53,836 Speaker 1: of existential crisis that I was experiencing when I was 148 00:08:53,836 --> 00:08:55,876 Speaker 1: writing How To Break Up With Your Phone. I was 149 00:08:56,116 --> 00:08:58,356 Speaker 1: doing this practice where my husband and I were taking 150 00:08:58,396 --> 00:09:00,916 Speaker 1: these twenty four hour breaks from our screens, and there 151 00:09:00,996 --> 00:09:03,956 Speaker 1: was this one day where I was totally alone in 152 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:07,076 Speaker 1: the house and I had this hour in front of 153 00:09:07,076 --> 00:09:10,516 Speaker 1: me to do whatever I wanted to, but without my 154 00:09:10,676 --> 00:09:14,276 Speaker 1: phone or any screen to spend time on. I realized 155 00:09:14,316 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: I actually could not think of a single thing I 156 00:09:17,036 --> 00:09:20,276 Speaker 1: wanted to do. And I freaked out because in my head, 157 00:09:20,276 --> 00:09:22,556 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, oh wow, I'm just sitting here 158 00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:25,476 Speaker 1: waiting for dinner, which really means I'm just waiting to die. 159 00:09:26,236 --> 00:09:29,316 Speaker 1: The realization that she didn't have anything she wanted to 160 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:32,796 Speaker 1: do shook Catherine to the core. She realized that she 161 00:09:32,956 --> 00:09:35,836 Speaker 1: was going through what author Victor Frankel referred to as 162 00:09:35,956 --> 00:09:39,676 Speaker 1: the Sunday neurosis. It's something like when the internal void 163 00:09:39,716 --> 00:09:42,836 Speaker 1: within us becomes manifest And I was like, oh, well, 164 00:09:42,836 --> 00:09:47,356 Speaker 1: it was Saturday, but yes, that's what happened. But Catherine 165 00:09:47,356 --> 00:09:50,436 Speaker 1: decided to do something about the existential void she was feeling. 166 00:09:51,036 --> 00:09:53,796 Speaker 1: She asked herself, what's one thing you say you want 167 00:09:53,796 --> 00:09:56,956 Speaker 1: to do but you supposedly don't have time for. Her 168 00:09:56,996 --> 00:09:59,316 Speaker 1: answer was that she always wanted to learn how to 169 00:09:59,316 --> 00:10:02,916 Speaker 1: play guitar. She remembered seeing a flyer in her neighborhood 170 00:10:02,996 --> 00:10:05,996 Speaker 1: for a music school with adult classes, and immediately signed up. 171 00:10:06,636 --> 00:10:10,196 Speaker 1: That decision would change her life. It magical, and I 172 00:10:10,236 --> 00:10:12,556 Speaker 1: was having this kind of euphoria and this sense of 173 00:10:12,636 --> 00:10:17,356 Speaker 1: freedom and this sense of joy. And part of it 174 00:10:17,436 --> 00:10:19,116 Speaker 1: was that I was learning a new skill, like that 175 00:10:19,196 --> 00:10:21,116 Speaker 1: was great. But I started to realize that that was 176 00:10:21,196 --> 00:10:24,156 Speaker 1: not all that was happening. There was something much bigger happening. 177 00:10:24,316 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 1: I was having fun with these people, and that really 178 00:10:27,476 --> 00:10:31,316 Speaker 1: got me started on this investigation into what is fun? 179 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,436 Speaker 1: What is this feeling? And then most importantly, how can 180 00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:36,876 Speaker 1: I have more of it? Because I wanted more of 181 00:10:36,876 --> 00:10:40,156 Speaker 1: that feeling. Four years later, Catherine is now an expert 182 00:10:40,276 --> 00:10:42,836 Speaker 1: on the science of fun. She's just written a new 183 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:46,236 Speaker 1: book called The Power of Fun, How to Feel Alive Again. 184 00:10:46,876 --> 00:10:49,596 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how much joy I have found 185 00:10:49,636 --> 00:10:53,596 Speaker 1: through this pursuit of fun. Realizing the value of fun 186 00:10:53,676 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 1: and defining it more concretely for myself has completely changed 187 00:10:57,796 --> 00:10:59,796 Speaker 1: the way I think about how I spend my time. 188 00:11:00,156 --> 00:11:02,796 Speaker 1: I don't think I had any idea how many benefits 189 00:11:02,796 --> 00:11:04,716 Speaker 1: there would be to pursuing fun. I just thought it 190 00:11:04,716 --> 00:11:07,716 Speaker 1: would be fun, you know. And so I've been shocked, 191 00:11:07,796 --> 00:11:11,556 Speaker 1: pleasantly shocked to recognize the changes it's made in these 192 00:11:11,556 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 1: other areas of my life. One of those areas, ironically enough, 193 00:11:16,236 --> 00:11:19,876 Speaker 1: involved improving her productivity at work. I started to realize 194 00:11:19,876 --> 00:11:23,036 Speaker 1: that my brain could only think and produce creative thoughts 195 00:11:23,036 --> 00:11:25,076 Speaker 1: for a certain number of hours a day, which what 196 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:27,036 Speaker 1: I was doing with the other time was churning and 197 00:11:27,036 --> 00:11:28,876 Speaker 1: I was answering my email. I was just doing stuff 198 00:11:28,916 --> 00:11:31,276 Speaker 1: to make myself feel busy. What I found is that 199 00:11:31,356 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 1: if I take a break, if I deliberately take breaks 200 00:11:34,036 --> 00:11:36,596 Speaker 1: to do one of these other activities that fall much 201 00:11:36,636 --> 00:11:39,276 Speaker 1: more into this fun category for me, I returned to 202 00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:42,996 Speaker 1: whatever my task had been much more refreshed, with more 203 00:11:43,076 --> 00:11:46,796 Speaker 1: ideas and without this sense of burnout. So what I found, 204 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:51,076 Speaker 1: counterintuitively is actually carving out space for this supposedly frivolous 205 00:11:51,076 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 1: pursuit of fun actually ended up not just making me happier, 206 00:11:54,636 --> 00:11:58,076 Speaker 1: but made me more productive. Research shows that fun also 207 00:11:58,156 --> 00:12:02,036 Speaker 1: has physical health benefits. For example, it can lower cortisol, 208 00:12:02,236 --> 00:12:05,436 Speaker 1: a bodily stress hormone. Again, we just think it's frivolous. 209 00:12:05,476 --> 00:12:07,316 Speaker 1: So if I said to you, like fun my lower 210 00:12:07,476 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 1: risk of a heart attack, you'd look at me like 211 00:12:09,156 --> 00:12:11,956 Speaker 1: I was crazy. But if you think about what physiological 212 00:12:11,956 --> 00:12:13,756 Speaker 1: state we're in when we were having fun, it is 213 00:12:13,756 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 1: a low stressed state. We are not stressed out, and 214 00:12:17,476 --> 00:12:20,676 Speaker 1: we are fully present, and there is plenty of research 215 00:12:20,796 --> 00:12:24,556 Speaker 1: showing that that is very good for our health. So 216 00:12:24,636 --> 00:12:28,036 Speaker 1: I personally think it's fascinating to consider that the pursuit 217 00:12:28,076 --> 00:12:31,036 Speaker 1: of fun over the long run may actually be affecting 218 00:12:31,076 --> 00:12:33,356 Speaker 1: the hormonal balance in our bodies in a way that 219 00:12:33,556 --> 00:12:36,716 Speaker 1: is enormously beneficial for our long term physical health. In 220 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:39,596 Speaker 1: addition to making us feel really good when we do it. 221 00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:43,396 Speaker 1: Committing to pursuing more fun has also given Catherine a 222 00:12:43,476 --> 00:12:46,956 Speaker 1: sense of meaning. I don't want to end up at 223 00:12:46,996 --> 00:12:49,356 Speaker 1: my deathbed feeling like I never lived. And I think 224 00:12:49,356 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 1: that and I know that for me, fun is the 225 00:12:51,516 --> 00:12:55,196 Speaker 1: path that is making me feel that, although death is inevitable, 226 00:12:55,476 --> 00:12:58,716 Speaker 1: at least I am living. Hearing Catherine talk about the 227 00:12:58,796 --> 00:13:02,116 Speaker 1: vast benefits of fun was making me feel really jealous. 228 00:13:02,796 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 1: I wanted to feel alive again too. It felt like 229 00:13:05,756 --> 00:13:09,316 Speaker 1: a rock bottom moment. I was in total fun cris this, 230 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:13,356 Speaker 1: so I asked Katherine if she'd helped me out. Luckily, 231 00:13:13,636 --> 00:13:16,476 Speaker 1: she was up for the challenge. So I'm not a 232 00:13:16,516 --> 00:13:19,516 Speaker 1: lost cause. You are not a lost cause. I would 233 00:13:19,636 --> 00:13:25,116 Speaker 1: dare say, I'm e'en having fun right now, already writing 234 00:13:25,116 --> 00:13:31,236 Speaker 1: it right, get yourself a gold star already. My Funtervention 235 00:13:31,316 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 1: will shift into high gear when the Happiness Lab returns 236 00:13:34,316 --> 00:13:44,836 Speaker 1: in a moment. I absolutely love swing dancing. I've always 237 00:13:44,916 --> 00:13:47,276 Speaker 1: loved swingings and I think it is so fun. And 238 00:13:47,316 --> 00:13:50,316 Speaker 1: if you watch people swing dancing like that's fun. Author 239 00:13:50,356 --> 00:13:53,876 Speaker 1: and fun expert Katherine Price began My Funtervention with some 240 00:13:53,956 --> 00:13:57,556 Speaker 1: tips about what not to do, recalling one of her 241 00:13:57,596 --> 00:14:02,836 Speaker 1: more unfortunate swing dance partners. This poor guy was so stiff, 242 00:14:02,916 --> 00:14:04,796 Speaker 1: and I just heard him talking to himself and he 243 00:14:04,836 --> 00:14:07,196 Speaker 1: was just going, I'm having fun because this is fun, 244 00:14:07,316 --> 00:14:09,716 Speaker 1: because this is fun, because we're having fun, over and 245 00:14:09,796 --> 00:14:12,876 Speaker 1: over again to himself. And needless to say, I don't 246 00:14:12,876 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 1: think he was having fun. You don't want that. That's 247 00:14:15,276 --> 00:14:19,196 Speaker 1: not our goal here. The good news is that Catherine's 248 00:14:19,196 --> 00:14:22,156 Speaker 1: fun intervention would not involve me gritting my teeth and 249 00:14:22,236 --> 00:14:25,156 Speaker 1: strong arming my brain into trying to enjoy something I 250 00:14:25,236 --> 00:14:29,676 Speaker 1: totally hated. But there was also bad news. Finding more 251 00:14:29,676 --> 00:14:32,396 Speaker 1: fun in my life was going to take some time, effort, 252 00:14:32,556 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 1: and soul searching. Are there things that you should do 253 00:14:36,236 --> 00:14:39,676 Speaker 1: and try if you want to reorient towards fun. Yes, 254 00:14:39,756 --> 00:14:41,436 Speaker 1: you're going to have to put some effort into this, 255 00:14:41,476 --> 00:14:44,116 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to be effort that feels unfun. 256 00:14:44,476 --> 00:14:46,396 Speaker 1: If it starts to feel like work at any time, 257 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:48,876 Speaker 1: then you're on the wrong path. Like you don't want 258 00:14:48,876 --> 00:14:50,476 Speaker 1: this to feel like work, but you do want it 259 00:14:50,476 --> 00:14:53,916 Speaker 1: to feel like, Oh, this is interesting. I'm curious about this. 260 00:14:54,276 --> 00:14:57,636 Speaker 1: I'm enjoying this process. That's what our goal is. Part 261 00:14:57,636 --> 00:15:01,436 Speaker 1: of that curiosity involves overcoming the misconceptions that so many 262 00:15:01,436 --> 00:15:05,636 Speaker 1: of us have about what actually feels fun. As we chatted, 263 00:15:05,756 --> 00:15:08,436 Speaker 1: I realized I often use the term fun when I 264 00:15:08,436 --> 00:15:12,116 Speaker 1: don't really mean, like, what a fun dinner party, when 265 00:15:12,276 --> 00:15:15,516 Speaker 1: in reality I couldn't wait to get home. I've even 266 00:15:15,556 --> 00:15:18,796 Speaker 1: wielded the words that was so fun to describe and 267 00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:23,436 Speaker 1: at best meth zoom meeting. We use fun very casually 268 00:15:23,476 --> 00:15:27,356 Speaker 1: and sloppily, and that leaves us vulnerable to being manipulated 269 00:15:27,396 --> 00:15:30,716 Speaker 1: by anyone who tells us their product or service is fun. 270 00:15:31,356 --> 00:15:32,836 Speaker 1: We will say, oh, yeah, I'll do that because it's 271 00:15:32,876 --> 00:15:34,956 Speaker 1: for fun. Because we just think anything we don't do 272 00:15:35,076 --> 00:15:38,236 Speaker 1: for work or leisure time it must be fun. But 273 00:15:38,356 --> 00:15:40,396 Speaker 1: if you actually think about the things that you're doing 274 00:15:40,516 --> 00:15:43,516 Speaker 1: for fun and then investigate how it's making you feel 275 00:15:43,516 --> 00:15:46,116 Speaker 1: emotionally and physically, you may realize that it's not actually 276 00:15:46,116 --> 00:15:48,996 Speaker 1: making you feel it that good. When Catherine began the 277 00:15:49,036 --> 00:15:51,996 Speaker 1: research for her Power of Fun book, her first task 278 00:15:52,196 --> 00:15:55,276 Speaker 1: was to define this elusive concept. We don't have a 279 00:15:55,316 --> 00:15:58,916 Speaker 1: good working definition of what fun is, and as a result, 280 00:15:59,676 --> 00:16:02,276 Speaker 1: we don't take it seriously. There are is very little 281 00:16:02,316 --> 00:16:05,516 Speaker 1: scholarly work that's been done or academic worker scientific research 282 00:16:05,556 --> 00:16:07,156 Speaker 1: into fun. Because I mean, it makes sense. How are 283 00:16:07,156 --> 00:16:08,596 Speaker 1: you going to study something if you don't have a 284 00:16:08,636 --> 00:16:11,836 Speaker 1: definition for it. I did my own literature search, and 285 00:16:11,996 --> 00:16:15,356 Speaker 1: Catherine's right. There's lots of scientific work on happiness, but 286 00:16:15,476 --> 00:16:18,676 Speaker 1: there are surprisingly few papers on fun. If you do 287 00:16:18,716 --> 00:16:22,276 Speaker 1: the Standards Scientific Database search for the word fun, one 288 00:16:22,276 --> 00:16:25,156 Speaker 1: of the top hits is a paper entitled putting the 289 00:16:25,276 --> 00:16:29,476 Speaker 1: Fun in Fun. Guy tonail on co mycosis not fun, 290 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:32,116 Speaker 1: not fun at all. And so to develop her own 291 00:16:32,196 --> 00:16:35,916 Speaker 1: definition of fun, Catherine called upon her Fun Squad, that 292 00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:38,596 Speaker 1: group of a thousand or so people like me who'd 293 00:16:38,596 --> 00:16:41,396 Speaker 1: signed up to help out with her new book. Catherine 294 00:16:41,396 --> 00:16:44,916 Speaker 1: asked the Fun Squad to describe their own experiences with fun. 295 00:16:45,396 --> 00:16:48,716 Speaker 1: I think I had a very technical way of phrasing 296 00:16:48,716 --> 00:16:50,436 Speaker 1: the question, which is basically like, tell me about three 297 00:16:50,476 --> 00:16:54,356 Speaker 1: times that you would describe as so fun. She got 298 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:58,516 Speaker 1: back hundreds of examples. People talked about memories of squishing 299 00:16:58,556 --> 00:17:01,756 Speaker 1: mud through their toes, or playing drums with their grandkids, 300 00:17:02,156 --> 00:17:06,156 Speaker 1: or church dances, or playing fetch with a particularly cute dog, 301 00:17:06,676 --> 00:17:10,996 Speaker 1: or summer days on the lake laughing with ends. Catherine 302 00:17:10,996 --> 00:17:14,596 Speaker 1: was surprised by how vary the experiences were, but also 303 00:17:14,836 --> 00:17:17,516 Speaker 1: that these very different examples seem to touch on the 304 00:17:17,556 --> 00:17:21,236 Speaker 1: same three themes over and over again. What I call 305 00:17:21,316 --> 00:17:26,556 Speaker 1: true fun is the confluence of playfulness, connection and flow, playfulness, 306 00:17:26,596 --> 00:17:30,756 Speaker 1: connection and flow. Let's look first at playfulness, which Catherine 307 00:17:30,756 --> 00:17:33,316 Speaker 1: describes as a feeling of being out of the normal 308 00:17:33,356 --> 00:17:36,436 Speaker 1: responsibilities of life. You don't have to actually be playing 309 00:17:36,556 --> 00:17:38,076 Speaker 1: in the way of like playing a board game or 310 00:17:38,076 --> 00:17:40,396 Speaker 1: playing with a child, but a playful spirit. You don't 311 00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:43,076 Speaker 1: care too much about the outcome. You're care free. You're 312 00:17:43,116 --> 00:17:44,756 Speaker 1: doing it just for the sake of doing it, and 313 00:17:44,796 --> 00:17:48,196 Speaker 1: it's very intrinsically motivating. But you can bring a playful 314 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:50,716 Speaker 1: spirit to things that you wouldn't think or play. You 315 00:17:50,756 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 1: can have a playful spirit and a engage in play 316 00:17:53,316 --> 00:17:56,796 Speaker 1: at work, for example. So we shouldn't be so strict 317 00:17:56,836 --> 00:18:00,916 Speaker 1: about what we consider potentially playful. We should, however, be 318 00:18:00,996 --> 00:18:03,476 Speaker 1: strict about making sure we find ways to get more 319 00:18:03,516 --> 00:18:06,916 Speaker 1: playfulness in our lives, especially if we care about our 320 00:18:06,916 --> 00:18:10,516 Speaker 1: mental and physical help, because science shows that play not 321 00:18:10,596 --> 00:18:13,676 Speaker 1: only feels nice, it's also good for our bodies and 322 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:17,076 Speaker 1: our brains. Studies find that people who play more often 323 00:18:17,396 --> 00:18:21,076 Speaker 1: are less susceptible to chronic conditions like dementia and heart disease. 324 00:18:21,676 --> 00:18:24,836 Speaker 1: There's also evidence that playfulness is linked with increases in 325 00:18:24,876 --> 00:18:28,956 Speaker 1: what's known as brain derived neurotrophic factor, a protein that's 326 00:18:28,996 --> 00:18:32,756 Speaker 1: linked to nerve growth. This connection between play and brain 327 00:18:32,796 --> 00:18:35,756 Speaker 1: development is one of the reasons that many animals seem 328 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:38,716 Speaker 1: to play so much in childhood, the very time in 329 00:18:38,756 --> 00:18:42,476 Speaker 1: which we grow the most new neural tissue. The second 330 00:18:42,476 --> 00:18:44,876 Speaker 1: component of fun is something we talk about a lot 331 00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:49,196 Speaker 1: on the Happiness Lab connection, that feeling of social togetherness 332 00:18:49,476 --> 00:18:52,756 Speaker 1: and a sense that we're sharing experiences with those around us. 333 00:18:53,196 --> 00:18:55,916 Speaker 1: When Catherine surveyed her fun squad, she found that nearly 334 00:18:55,956 --> 00:18:59,356 Speaker 1: all of their examples of true fun involved activities done 335 00:18:59,476 --> 00:19:02,796 Speaker 1: with other people, and that was true even for introverts. 336 00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:05,796 Speaker 1: A number of people actually said they were surprised because 337 00:19:05,796 --> 00:19:08,556 Speaker 1: they were a self described introvert, and yet the experiences 338 00:19:08,556 --> 00:19:11,596 Speaker 1: they described to me all head other people. Connection is 339 00:19:11,596 --> 00:19:14,076 Speaker 1: one of the big reasons that fun feels so good. 340 00:19:14,676 --> 00:19:18,236 Speaker 1: Study after study shows that being around other people increases 341 00:19:18,236 --> 00:19:22,156 Speaker 1: our positive mood and improves our mental health. One famous 342 00:19:22,156 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 1: well being study even concluded that spending time with others 343 00:19:25,716 --> 00:19:30,756 Speaker 1: was a necessary condition for high happiness. Definitely helps us 344 00:19:30,876 --> 00:19:33,756 Speaker 1: tap into our shared humanity, which is something we do 345 00:19:33,796 --> 00:19:37,836 Speaker 1: not prioritize, but which is enormously important. And I think 346 00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:40,276 Speaker 1: we all know that intuitively, even if we haven't thought 347 00:19:40,276 --> 00:19:42,356 Speaker 1: about it, because that's the drive that causes us to 348 00:19:42,396 --> 00:19:44,676 Speaker 1: do things like spend a lot of time in social media. 349 00:19:44,916 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 1: And that gets us to the third component of true 350 00:19:47,436 --> 00:19:51,756 Speaker 1: fun flow. Psychologist me High cheek set Me High, the 351 00:19:51,796 --> 00:19:54,636 Speaker 1: guy who first studied flow, defined it is that state 352 00:19:54,676 --> 00:19:57,076 Speaker 1: of true immersion that comes when we engage in a 353 00:19:57,156 --> 00:20:00,436 Speaker 1: challenging activity. Flow is the feeling you get when you're 354 00:20:00,476 --> 00:20:04,276 Speaker 1: so present and passionately involved in something that time just 355 00:20:04,356 --> 00:20:08,356 Speaker 1: starts flying by, but not all time flying by is 356 00:20:08,356 --> 00:20:11,716 Speaker 1: a good thing. Catherine argues that it's important to distinguish 357 00:20:11,716 --> 00:20:15,076 Speaker 1: between true, honest to goodness flow and what Cheeks set 358 00:20:15,076 --> 00:20:18,396 Speaker 1: Me High called junk flow. The easiest way to think 359 00:20:18,396 --> 00:20:21,756 Speaker 1: about it is the difference between being engaged and being hypnotized. 360 00:20:21,836 --> 00:20:24,716 Speaker 1: So anytime you find your eyes glazing over and forty 361 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:27,636 Speaker 1: five minutes passing and you haven't taken a deep breath, 362 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:29,716 Speaker 1: that you haven't moved, and you're just staring at a screen, 363 00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:32,036 Speaker 1: the chances are you're in a junk flow. And it's 364 00:20:32,156 --> 00:20:34,516 Speaker 1: very easy to get sucked into that and think, oh, well, 365 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:36,716 Speaker 1: I'm looking at Instagram or I'm looking at social media 366 00:20:36,756 --> 00:20:38,876 Speaker 1: for fun, and oh I'm in a flow state. But 367 00:20:38,916 --> 00:20:40,756 Speaker 1: then you don't really feel very good. That's not what 368 00:20:40,796 --> 00:20:43,676 Speaker 1: true fun is about at all, because true fund, by definition, 369 00:20:43,876 --> 00:20:46,596 Speaker 1: is an active state. It's not about zoning out. If 370 00:20:46,636 --> 00:20:48,996 Speaker 1: you're zoned out and you're not fully present, you're not 371 00:20:49,036 --> 00:20:52,156 Speaker 1: having true fund. That requirement of presence is another reason 372 00:20:52,236 --> 00:20:55,516 Speaker 1: true fund feels so good. The presence we get from 373 00:20:55,556 --> 00:20:58,436 Speaker 1: fun pursuits also protects us from the urge to spend 374 00:20:58,436 --> 00:21:01,316 Speaker 1: time on devices that tend to steal our attention and 375 00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:04,356 Speaker 1: drain our happiness. If you're having fun, you're not going 376 00:21:04,396 --> 00:21:06,236 Speaker 1: to want to be on your phone, like it's just 377 00:21:06,276 --> 00:21:08,476 Speaker 1: not appealing. You don't have to use willpower, you just 378 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:10,156 Speaker 1: don't want to do it because it's less fun than 379 00:21:10,196 --> 00:21:14,636 Speaker 1: whatever else you're doing. So playfulness, connection, and flow, those 380 00:21:14,676 --> 00:21:17,156 Speaker 1: are the three ingredients of fun that I'll be shooting for. 381 00:21:17,836 --> 00:21:20,076 Speaker 1: If you can have a life that has more playfulness 382 00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 1: or connection or flow, you're probably going to be on 383 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:25,156 Speaker 1: the right track and in a better place than you 384 00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:27,636 Speaker 1: are now. If you have two of those states at once, 385 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:29,956 Speaker 1: even better. And if you have all three of them 386 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,116 Speaker 1: at once, I think of it as really being like 387 00:21:32,196 --> 00:21:33,996 Speaker 1: hitting the bulls eye, and you will have a moment 388 00:21:33,996 --> 00:21:37,196 Speaker 1: that I would consider to be true fun. The first 389 00:21:37,236 --> 00:21:40,076 Speaker 1: step of my fun devention would require figuring out all 390 00:21:40,116 --> 00:21:43,116 Speaker 1: the factors that we're preventing me from finding that bulls 391 00:21:43,116 --> 00:21:47,956 Speaker 1: eye combination of playfulness, connection, and flow. Ah. Yes, my 392 00:21:48,036 --> 00:21:51,516 Speaker 1: phone distraction is like kryptonite to fun. And I can 393 00:21:51,556 --> 00:21:53,796 Speaker 1: assure you that you are certainly not the only person 394 00:21:53,916 --> 00:21:57,316 Speaker 1: for whom distraction is probably the biggest fun killer in 395 00:21:57,356 --> 00:22:00,876 Speaker 1: your life. Because we all have smartphones, and they all 396 00:22:00,916 --> 00:22:03,356 Speaker 1: have notifications that go off all the time, and we've 397 00:22:03,356 --> 00:22:05,396 Speaker 1: been conditioned to want to check them all the time, 398 00:22:05,436 --> 00:22:08,276 Speaker 1: even if they're not notifying us, And anytime you do that, 399 00:22:08,276 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: you're pulling yourself out of your present experience and mentally 400 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:14,236 Speaker 1: checking out for a second. Catherine noted that distraction was 401 00:22:14,276 --> 00:22:17,796 Speaker 1: probably also contributing to another problem I've discussed before on 402 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:21,036 Speaker 1: this podcast that I often feel too time famished to 403 00:22:21,076 --> 00:22:24,196 Speaker 1: do stuff I really enjoy. It's all tied together because 404 00:22:24,196 --> 00:22:26,956 Speaker 1: the distraction that we're all encountering all the time is 405 00:22:26,996 --> 00:22:29,596 Speaker 1: making us feel like we don't have much time, which 406 00:22:29,636 --> 00:22:32,396 Speaker 1: is making us stressed out, which is making us more distractable, 407 00:22:32,436 --> 00:22:34,156 Speaker 1: which is making us feel like we have no time. 408 00:22:34,516 --> 00:22:38,036 Speaker 1: Catherine decided that addressing this would be Funtervention action item 409 00:22:38,116 --> 00:22:40,436 Speaker 1: number one. I had to find ways to train my 410 00:22:40,476 --> 00:22:43,716 Speaker 1: brain to be a little less distracted. But since this 411 00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:47,196 Speaker 1: is a funtervention, Catherine thought I should limit my distractions 412 00:22:47,276 --> 00:22:50,356 Speaker 1: in a way that boosted my playfulness and connection. So, 413 00:22:50,476 --> 00:22:52,996 Speaker 1: rather than focus on avoiding the stuff I shouldn't be 414 00:22:52,996 --> 00:22:56,556 Speaker 1: paying attention to my email and notifications and so on, 415 00:22:57,116 --> 00:22:59,516 Speaker 1: Catherine decided that I should try to focus on more 416 00:22:59,516 --> 00:23:03,516 Speaker 1: attractive stuff, things that naturally make me feel good. She 417 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 1: suggested trying out to practice that she does with a 418 00:23:05,996 --> 00:23:08,996 Speaker 1: few of her friends, looking for what she calls delight. 419 00:23:09,796 --> 00:23:12,556 Speaker 1: I asked her what she meant by a delight. Delight 420 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:16,556 Speaker 1: is something that makes you feel delighted. Laurie. Her version 421 00:23:16,636 --> 00:23:19,116 Speaker 1: of the practice started when a friend recommended a book 422 00:23:19,196 --> 00:23:22,476 Speaker 1: by the poet Ross Gay entitled The Book of Delights, 423 00:23:23,196 --> 00:23:27,076 Speaker 1: and he wrote an essay every day for a year 424 00:23:27,356 --> 00:23:30,676 Speaker 1: about something that delighted him. Catherine copied the idea and 425 00:23:30,676 --> 00:23:34,476 Speaker 1: found it to be well delightful, savoring like good things 426 00:23:34,476 --> 00:23:36,676 Speaker 1: in the same way that we ruminate about bad things, 427 00:23:36,716 --> 00:23:38,556 Speaker 1: and I find it's a great way to attract more 428 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:41,156 Speaker 1: fun into your life. It did sound like fun to 429 00:23:41,316 --> 00:23:43,636 Speaker 1: wish a bunch of delightful things around in my brain 430 00:23:43,716 --> 00:23:46,676 Speaker 1: all day, But I also worried that Catherine didn't fully 431 00:23:46,716 --> 00:23:49,876 Speaker 1: realize the level of mind distraction her pupil was dealing with. 432 00:23:50,396 --> 00:23:53,556 Speaker 1: I realized I might need some remedial help before jumping 433 00:23:53,596 --> 00:23:56,356 Speaker 1: into the delight deep end. So I decided to talk 434 00:23:56,356 --> 00:23:59,596 Speaker 1: to the poet who inspired Katherine, the guy who literally 435 00:23:59,596 --> 00:24:02,436 Speaker 1: wrote the book on delights. When we get back from 436 00:24:02,436 --> 00:24:05,236 Speaker 1: the break, we'll hear all the amazing lessons he shared. 437 00:24:05,876 --> 00:24:08,076 Speaker 1: We'll see how fun it can be to start noticing 438 00:24:08,156 --> 00:24:12,316 Speaker 1: all the great stuff world spring flowers, smiling faces on 439 00:24:12,356 --> 00:24:17,076 Speaker 1: public transport, the eighties, band El DeBarge, and even tomato plants. 440 00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:21,796 Speaker 1: Where's my tomato? How's my tomato? Either lose my tomato? 441 00:24:21,876 --> 00:24:33,756 Speaker 1: Did you? The Happiness Lab will be right back. I 442 00:24:33,836 --> 00:24:35,996 Speaker 1: knew finding more delights was going to be tough for 443 00:24:36,036 --> 00:24:39,956 Speaker 1: someone who's as distracted and overworked as I am, so 444 00:24:39,996 --> 00:24:42,396 Speaker 1: I decided to talk to the man who invented the practice, 445 00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:45,796 Speaker 1: the poet Ross Gay. Well, you don't know until you 446 00:24:45,876 --> 00:24:48,196 Speaker 1: carry a tomato seed lean through the airport and onto 447 00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:51,316 Speaker 1: a plane. Is that carrying a tomato seed lean through 448 00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:53,996 Speaker 1: the airport and onto a plane will make people smile 449 00:24:54,036 --> 00:24:57,676 Speaker 1: at you, almost like you're carrying a baby. Ross is 450 00:24:57,676 --> 00:25:01,196 Speaker 1: reading from his essay entitled Tomato Onboard. I did not 451 00:25:01,276 --> 00:25:04,596 Speaker 1: know this until today. Carrying my little tomato about three 452 00:25:04,716 --> 00:25:08,116 Speaker 1: or four inches high in its four inch plastic starter pot, 453 00:25:08,116 --> 00:25:10,756 Speaker 1: which my friend Michael gave to me, smirking about how 454 00:25:10,796 --> 00:25:13,236 Speaker 1: I was going to get it home, Ross decided to 455 00:25:13,276 --> 00:25:15,676 Speaker 1: stick the plant in his open carry on bag and 456 00:25:15,756 --> 00:25:18,676 Speaker 1: send it through the TSA machine. When the security guy 457 00:25:18,756 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 1: saw it was a tomato, he smiled and said, I 458 00:25:21,116 --> 00:25:23,356 Speaker 1: don't know how to check that. Have a good day. 459 00:25:23,596 --> 00:25:25,756 Speaker 1: But as Ross tried to stick the tomato plant back 460 00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 1: into his bag, he realized that one of its stems 461 00:25:28,236 --> 00:25:30,796 Speaker 1: had broken. So I decided I'd better just carried it 462 00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:33,036 Speaker 1: out in the open, and the shower of love began. 463 00:25:33,316 --> 00:25:35,476 Speaker 1: Before boarding the final leg of my flight, one of 464 00:25:35,516 --> 00:25:38,876 Speaker 1: the workers said, nice tomato, which I don't think was 465 00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:41,316 Speaker 1: a come on, and the flight attendant asked about the 466 00:25:41,356 --> 00:25:45,196 Speaker 1: tomato at least five times, not an exaggeration every time, 467 00:25:45,276 --> 00:25:49,756 Speaker 1: calling it my tomato, where's my tomato? How's my tomato? 468 00:25:50,476 --> 00:25:53,276 Speaker 1: You did lose my tomato, did you? She even directed 469 00:25:53,276 --> 00:25:55,276 Speaker 1: me to an open seat in the eggit row. Why 470 00:25:55,276 --> 00:25:57,556 Speaker 1: don't you guys go sit there and stretch out. When 471 00:25:57,556 --> 00:25:59,316 Speaker 1: I got my water, I poured some into the low 472 00:25:59,356 --> 00:26:01,876 Speaker 1: guy's soil. When we got bumpy, I put my hand 473 00:26:01,916 --> 00:26:04,436 Speaker 1: on the low guy's container, careful not to snap another 474 00:26:04,516 --> 00:26:06,996 Speaker 1: arm off. And when we landed and the pilot put 475 00:26:07,036 --> 00:26:09,996 Speaker 1: the brakes on hard, my arm reflects simply went across 476 00:26:09,996 --> 00:26:12,796 Speaker 1: the seat, holding the low Gai in place, the way 477 00:26:12,876 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 1: my dad's arm would when he had to break hard 478 00:26:15,036 --> 00:26:17,476 Speaker 1: in that car without seat belts to speak of. In 479 00:26:17,476 --> 00:26:20,756 Speaker 1: one of my very favorite gestures in the Encyclopedia of 480 00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:23,876 Speaker 1: Human Gestures. Tomato on board is just one of the 481 00:26:23,916 --> 00:26:27,996 Speaker 1: many joy inducing essays in Ross's Book of Delights, an 482 00:26:28,116 --> 00:26:31,396 Speaker 1: entire book filled with his personal stories of feeling delighted. 483 00:26:32,436 --> 00:26:34,796 Speaker 1: The idea for the book came when Ross was in Italy, 484 00:26:35,036 --> 00:26:37,916 Speaker 1: walking on a lovely path and noticing all the wildflowers. 485 00:26:38,636 --> 00:26:42,316 Speaker 1: He recognized how present he felt when experiencing delight, that 486 00:26:42,356 --> 00:26:44,916 Speaker 1: feeling of deep pleasure we get when we notice something 487 00:26:44,996 --> 00:26:49,276 Speaker 1: beautiful or funny or just well delightful. Ross wanted to 488 00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 1: experience that feeling more often and to document it. The 489 00:26:53,556 --> 00:26:56,116 Speaker 1: thought was, no, you should write an essay every day 490 00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:58,956 Speaker 1: for a year about something that delights you and see 491 00:26:58,996 --> 00:27:01,756 Speaker 1: what you learn. He gave himself three rules for his 492 00:27:01,836 --> 00:27:05,396 Speaker 1: new delight project, and they were to do it every day, 493 00:27:05,476 --> 00:27:08,556 Speaker 1: to write by hand, and to write them quickly, so 494 00:27:08,596 --> 00:27:12,076 Speaker 1: I draft of them all in thirty minutes. Ross began 495 00:27:12,156 --> 00:27:14,996 Speaker 1: noticing new delights all the time, and every time he 496 00:27:15,036 --> 00:27:17,036 Speaker 1: saw one, he'd stick his finger in the air and 497 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:21,276 Speaker 1: announce delight. The practice immediately connected him to a lot 498 00:27:21,276 --> 00:27:23,636 Speaker 1: more joy than he was expecting, which was evident in 499 00:27:23,676 --> 00:27:26,196 Speaker 1: the sheer number of times Ross laughed out loud as 500 00:27:26,236 --> 00:27:29,676 Speaker 1: he fidgeted through our interview. But the practice also connected 501 00:27:29,756 --> 00:27:32,876 Speaker 1: Ross to a host of wonderful, often very specific things 502 00:27:33,076 --> 00:27:35,836 Speaker 1: that he normally wouldn't have time to notice because of 503 00:27:35,876 --> 00:27:41,316 Speaker 1: the usual life distractions. Wonderful things like praying mantises and fireflies, 504 00:27:41,556 --> 00:27:44,796 Speaker 1: and the first lilacs of the year, which Ross eloquently 505 00:27:44,836 --> 00:27:48,516 Speaker 1: refers to as the purple cornets of spring, and the 506 00:27:48,556 --> 00:27:51,236 Speaker 1: fact that spring not only has lots of lovely flowers 507 00:27:51,276 --> 00:27:57,276 Speaker 1: like lilacs, but oddly lots of lovely purple flowers, hyacinths, bellflowers, irises, 508 00:27:57,756 --> 00:28:00,236 Speaker 1: those circular puff things I don't really know the name of. 509 00:28:00,916 --> 00:28:04,236 Speaker 1: It is indeed kind of delightful that they are all purple. 510 00:28:05,076 --> 00:28:10,316 Speaker 1: The abundance of the purple things, like what miracle is that? 511 00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:15,636 Speaker 1: You know? Ross also found delight in the dumb things 512 00:28:15,676 --> 00:28:19,196 Speaker 1: our bodies do, like the laughing snort that sound we 513 00:28:19,276 --> 00:28:21,436 Speaker 1: make when we go fall so hard that we wind 514 00:28:21,516 --> 00:28:27,636 Speaker 1: up sounding like a pig, which is really beautiful experience 515 00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:30,316 Speaker 1: of like, oh, my body did something I didn't mean 516 00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:32,876 Speaker 1: it to do, but it didn't out of a kind 517 00:28:32,916 --> 00:28:35,996 Speaker 1: of you know, a delight, Ross also started to take 518 00:28:35,996 --> 00:28:38,356 Speaker 1: delight and the weird things humans do all the time, 519 00:28:38,716 --> 00:28:41,316 Speaker 1: like giving a high five to a total stranger, and 520 00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:43,916 Speaker 1: the do over when we make a mistake and quickly 521 00:28:43,996 --> 00:28:46,836 Speaker 1: yell out do over and just somehow get to pretend 522 00:28:46,876 --> 00:28:50,476 Speaker 1: that whatever we just did didn't happen. Ross also finds 523 00:28:50,516 --> 00:28:53,716 Speaker 1: a lot of delight in music. One essay called Love 524 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:56,916 Speaker 1: Me in a Special Way chronicles his appreciation for one 525 00:28:56,916 --> 00:29:00,756 Speaker 1: of my favorite eighties bands, El DeBarge Think to the 526 00:29:00,796 --> 00:29:03,716 Speaker 1: beat of the rhythm of the night. The essay ends 527 00:29:03,716 --> 00:29:06,316 Speaker 1: with him hearing El DeBarge playing in the security line 528 00:29:06,356 --> 00:29:09,596 Speaker 1: at the Philadelphia Airport, and then noticing an older man 529 00:29:09,716 --> 00:29:12,916 Speaker 1: working there scream out to no one in particular, Hey, 530 00:29:13,236 --> 00:29:16,716 Speaker 1: is that El DeBarge? That that record was made and 531 00:29:16,796 --> 00:29:20,556 Speaker 1: I could listen to its astonishing as I shared my 532 00:29:20,556 --> 00:29:23,236 Speaker 1: own delight in listening to El DeBarge with Ross, He 533 00:29:23,316 --> 00:29:26,356 Speaker 1: explained that conversations like ours soon became one of the 534 00:29:26,356 --> 00:29:28,876 Speaker 1: best parts of his project. Like the fact that you 535 00:29:28,956 --> 00:29:31,476 Speaker 1: just shared that with me, It just makes my eyes 536 00:29:31,516 --> 00:29:33,636 Speaker 1: bigger for that, and it makes my heart bigger too. 537 00:29:33,916 --> 00:29:36,676 Speaker 1: Ross's eyes are still constantly focused on the wonders of 538 00:29:36,716 --> 00:29:39,156 Speaker 1: the world. He even shared a delight that he'd heard 539 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:42,316 Speaker 1: that very morning. I never noticed it before, But the 540 00:29:42,436 --> 00:29:45,956 Speaker 1: way that sometimes we will make a sound to another person. 541 00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:49,876 Speaker 1: Maybe you grow blueberries, I might make a sound to 542 00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:59,516 Speaker 1: indicate their delicious and like, good job. By training himself 543 00:29:59,556 --> 00:30:02,636 Speaker 1: to notice delights, Ross has made his days more playful, 544 00:30:03,036 --> 00:30:06,276 Speaker 1: that first marker of true fun. But he's also embraced 545 00:30:06,276 --> 00:30:08,796 Speaker 1: that sense of connection that comes from sharing your own 546 00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:12,316 Speaker 1: delight with others. Oh this delights you, This delights me. 547 00:30:12,436 --> 00:30:15,676 Speaker 1: Oh we're kindred in this way. Probably among other ways, 548 00:30:16,076 --> 00:30:18,876 Speaker 1: a year of focusing on delightful things also made Ross 549 00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:23,196 Speaker 1: more present. Seeking out delights gives him flow. I found 550 00:30:23,276 --> 00:30:26,956 Speaker 1: that as I was practicing this, my eyes were on 551 00:30:27,116 --> 00:30:29,836 Speaker 1: for delight. That's it. My eyes were on for delight. 552 00:30:30,476 --> 00:30:33,676 Speaker 1: But noticing delights has had other benefits for Ross beyond 553 00:30:33,676 --> 00:30:37,476 Speaker 1: just being fun. It's given Ross an unexpected dose of resilience. 554 00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:41,396 Speaker 1: Even though his book is ostensibly about delights, his essays 555 00:30:41,436 --> 00:30:45,036 Speaker 1: also tackle issues like structural racism and grief following the 556 00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:47,396 Speaker 1: death of a loved one, and many of the parts 557 00:30:47,396 --> 00:30:50,316 Speaker 1: of life that are downright ugly. But training his brain 558 00:30:50,356 --> 00:30:53,276 Speaker 1: to notice positive things has allowed him to keep noticing 559 00:30:53,276 --> 00:30:56,196 Speaker 1: blessings even in the worst of times. In the midst 560 00:30:56,196 --> 00:31:00,996 Speaker 1: of profound sorrow. There's like eight purple things that bloom 561 00:31:00,996 --> 00:31:05,196 Speaker 1: in May. It's ridiculous. As I chatted with Ross, I 562 00:31:05,276 --> 00:31:08,156 Speaker 1: was struck by how much happiness he exuded. He's one 563 00:31:08,156 --> 00:31:10,316 Speaker 1: of the most joyful people I've spoken with in a 564 00:31:10,356 --> 00:31:13,876 Speaker 1: really long time. Ross explained that he constantly feels an 565 00:31:13,876 --> 00:31:17,476 Speaker 1: emotion that scientifically known to boost well being, a deep 566 00:31:17,516 --> 00:31:20,756 Speaker 1: sense of gratitude. Ross claims that his gratitude for the 567 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:24,516 Speaker 1: universe often feels so profound these days that it sometimes 568 00:31:24,556 --> 00:31:28,876 Speaker 1: moves him to tears. No, it is, it's like yeah, 569 00:31:29,316 --> 00:31:36,556 Speaker 1: as thank you, you know. Like that. Seeing the joy 570 00:31:36,596 --> 00:31:39,196 Speaker 1: that Ross experienced got me really excited to do my 571 00:31:39,276 --> 00:31:42,396 Speaker 1: fun intervention delight homework. So I bought a crappy notebook 572 00:31:42,436 --> 00:31:45,796 Speaker 1: and got ready to catalog. Like Ross, I worried that 573 00:31:45,796 --> 00:31:47,796 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to come up with something truly 574 00:31:47,876 --> 00:31:51,796 Speaker 1: delightful every single day. I also feared that I'd constantly 575 00:31:51,796 --> 00:31:53,996 Speaker 1: feel like I didn't have time to be focused on 576 00:31:54,036 --> 00:31:57,396 Speaker 1: sleuthing out all these good things, especially on busier days. 577 00:31:58,156 --> 00:32:00,996 Speaker 1: But I adapted the rules Ross used to make things easier. 578 00:32:01,396 --> 00:32:03,836 Speaker 1: I just had to find one delight a day, and 579 00:32:03,876 --> 00:32:05,916 Speaker 1: I promised myself that I'd take no more than a 580 00:32:05,916 --> 00:32:09,476 Speaker 1: few seconds to scribble something about that delight down on paper. 581 00:32:10,316 --> 00:32:13,156 Speaker 1: And if I was feeling really overwhelmed on a particular day, 582 00:32:13,556 --> 00:32:16,796 Speaker 1: I didn't even have to write anything, just notice finger 583 00:32:16,836 --> 00:32:21,996 Speaker 1: in the air. Delight. So what happened, Well, I quickly 584 00:32:21,996 --> 00:32:24,956 Speaker 1: realized how easily delights start finding you when you just 585 00:32:25,076 --> 00:32:28,396 Speaker 1: take time to notice. Instead of walking around town with 586 00:32:28,436 --> 00:32:30,916 Speaker 1: my phone out to check my email, I spent my 587 00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:34,636 Speaker 1: days feeling kind of curious looking around, trying to find 588 00:32:34,676 --> 00:32:37,116 Speaker 1: that hidden delight for the day. And when you train 589 00:32:37,236 --> 00:32:40,716 Speaker 1: your attention to look for good stuff, it works often 590 00:32:40,876 --> 00:32:44,636 Speaker 1: pretty fast. In fact, locating all those hidden delights took 591 00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:47,676 Speaker 1: way less time than I thought. It quickly felt like 592 00:32:47,796 --> 00:32:51,356 Speaker 1: they were finding me rather than me finding them. I 593 00:32:51,436 --> 00:32:54,276 Speaker 1: was very excited to report back about all my successes 594 00:32:54,356 --> 00:32:58,236 Speaker 1: to my fun intervention instructor. So I was at this 595 00:32:58,316 --> 00:33:01,236 Speaker 1: beach house. There's this beautiful beach house looking out at 596 00:33:01,276 --> 00:33:06,116 Speaker 1: the ocean, and this mocking bird like flew and came 597 00:33:06,156 --> 00:33:07,876 Speaker 1: onto the fence right near there, and I was like, oh, 598 00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:11,076 Speaker 1: I mocking bird. And then he just took a dump 599 00:33:11,156 --> 00:33:15,676 Speaker 1: and flew away, and that was like delight A figure 600 00:33:15,716 --> 00:33:19,076 Speaker 1: in the air. The same beach, I went for a 601 00:33:19,116 --> 00:33:21,196 Speaker 1: walk on the beach and there was this woman, you know, 602 00:33:21,276 --> 00:33:23,236 Speaker 1: who was on a beach blanket, just hang out on 603 00:33:23,236 --> 00:33:26,036 Speaker 1: the beach. And I noticed that she had a leash, 604 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:28,636 Speaker 1: but on the leash wasn't a dog, it was a cat. 605 00:33:29,196 --> 00:33:30,956 Speaker 1: Like she brought her cat to the beach and the 606 00:33:30,996 --> 00:33:33,476 Speaker 1: cat was just like sitting there chilling on the beach. 607 00:33:33,756 --> 00:33:38,556 Speaker 1: That's delightful. It was wonderful. There so good. As Catherine 608 00:33:38,556 --> 00:33:41,076 Speaker 1: and I connected and playfully laughed at the delights I'd 609 00:33:41,116 --> 00:33:44,356 Speaker 1: been present enough to start noticing, I realized I was 610 00:33:44,396 --> 00:33:48,276 Speaker 1: on the path to feeling less distracted and actually experiencing 611 00:33:48,396 --> 00:33:51,916 Speaker 1: this thing called fun. But there was still more Funtervention 612 00:33:51,956 --> 00:33:54,756 Speaker 1: to be done. I was getting better at paying attention, 613 00:33:55,156 --> 00:33:57,916 Speaker 1: but I still needed to discover what really felt fun, 614 00:33:58,356 --> 00:34:00,516 Speaker 1: and to do that, I needed to find ways to 615 00:34:00,556 --> 00:34:03,796 Speaker 1: experience a bit more self compassion when trying new things. 616 00:34:04,716 --> 00:34:07,236 Speaker 1: And so, unfortunately I need to leave you with a 617 00:34:07,276 --> 00:34:10,396 Speaker 1: bit of a cliffhanger this week, but I promise that 618 00:34:10,516 --> 00:34:14,516 Speaker 1: Part two of My Funtervention will be even more. That 619 00:34:14,636 --> 00:34:16,836 Speaker 1: was super fun. I was really scared with those superbuds. 620 00:34:16,916 --> 00:34:20,996 Speaker 1: It was. It was awesome fun. So if you want 621 00:34:20,996 --> 00:34:23,796 Speaker 1: to hear about the final steps in my Funtervention, then 622 00:34:23,876 --> 00:34:26,156 Speaker 1: don't miss the next sure to be fun episode of 623 00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:34,316 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie Santos. The Happiness 624 00:34:34,356 --> 00:34:36,836 Speaker 1: Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Delley. Our 625 00:34:36,876 --> 00:34:40,316 Speaker 1: original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, 626 00:34:40,436 --> 00:34:44,836 Speaker 1: mixing and mastering by Evan Viola. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. 627 00:34:44,876 --> 00:34:48,876 Speaker 1: Sophie Crane mckibbon edited our scripts. Emily Anne Vaughan offered 628 00:34:48,876 --> 00:34:54,156 Speaker 1: additional production support. Special thanks to Miela Belle, Carlie mcgliori, 629 00:34:54,396 --> 00:34:59,396 Speaker 1: Heather Faine, Maggie Taylor, Daniella lucarn Maya Kanig, Nicole Morano, 630 00:34:59,756 --> 00:35:04,356 Speaker 1: Eric Xandler, Royston Bazzer, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent Ben Davis. 631 00:35:04,756 --> 00:35:07,156 Speaker 1: That Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. 632 00:35:07,276 --> 00:35:13,396 Speaker 1: An doctor Laurie Santos