WEBVTT - You’ll Still Hate Your Manager in The Metaverse 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.200 This is Bloomberg Crypto Daily Bloomberg I heard podcast, and 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.600 I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:26.759 Use It's Thursday, October twenty. It might seem like the 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.440 conversation about the metaverse right now is a combination of 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.840 jokes about Mark Zuckerberg's digital legs, snark about the cost 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.600 of virtual reality headsets, and a real lack of clarity 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.800 on why any corporation at all might want to be 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.600 in this space. So we asked Matt Boyle, god forbid, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:47.559 you know, how are you going to take your you know, 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.479 your two hour lunch in France in metaverse? I think 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.000 you'd much rather be at a bistro somewhere. A Bloomberg 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.240 senior report who has written a lot about the future 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.480 of work to help explain exactly what's going on here, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.840 especially as relates to businesses hiring chief metaverse offices and 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:18.319 what those folks even do. Oldie Matt, welcome onto the show. 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.199 Thanks for having me. What's going on in the metaverse? Well, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.520 quite a lot if you've been reading the news lately, um, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.400 But I'm mostly focused for our work shift editorial area 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.920 in terms of you know how our companies and particularly 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.360 the C suite managers approaching the metaverse. What are the opportunities, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.280 what's the promise, what is the peril? And you know, 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.280 I hate to say this, and we all kind of 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.320 hate to say this, but you know, the jury is 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.280 very much still out there. When the company that is 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.880 the poster child for the metaverse can't get its own 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.320 employees to use its own metaverse, well, that's that company 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.760 that you're referring to, that post a child which renamed 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.160 itself to Meta to embrace the metavers. Uh, there are 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:02.560 no toes to dip, right, because we're still trying to 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.760 figure out if people people in the metaverse are gonna 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:10.080 have legs. But this idea of employee adoption of a 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.280 technology is interesting to me because the metaverse is being 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.799 positioned as a it's almost like like a Zoom enterprise 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.000 like products that something for people who work in large 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.680 corporations will find benefit from, which is very different from 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.480 some of the consumer brandings that we had out there previously. Like, 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.240 what's explaining that disconnect? Well, I mean it's funny you 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.160 mentioned Zoom. You know, if the promise of the Metaverse 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.920 or one of the potential promises of the metaverse is to, 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:45.600 you know, bring employees into some sort of immersive environment 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.000 which may or may not enhance their work experience. I 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.760 think if you hate your manager, you're still going to 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.600 hate your manager in the metaverse. But you mentioned zoom. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.000 I mean, we can't even get zoom calls right these days. 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.480 There are homes and books being written and research papers 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.720 coming out of Harvard studying interactions over zoom and who 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:06.920 gets left out on the zoom call and should that 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.600 zoom have been an email or should that thirty minutes 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.080 zoom be twenty five minutes? And my argument is yes, 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.000 the smartest companies are shortening meetings using zoom less because 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.160 they know what sort of impact it is having. My 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.840 wife is on zoom calls twelve hours a day. She 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.280 comes out of a work from home day, she looks 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.600 like she just went through the Battle of the Bulge. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.799 I mean, it's insane. So if you're saying let's all 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.919 go to the metaverse and have a more productive meeting, 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.600 my answer is why can't we Just you know, we're 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.880 not even getting meetings right now with the simplest of 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:42.520 technologies for video conferencing. But that said again, Um, you know, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.600 one of the applications of the metaverse will certainly be 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:50.360 you know, workplace applications, and how Slack and Salesforce and 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.600 all those various workplace applications that we know and loathe 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.360 are going to happily coexist within some type of of metaverse. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.520 I don't know. What I do know is, you know, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.120 it's to be far more relevant for my fourteen year 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.160 old son who lives has for the past ten years, 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:10.280 has lived in basically three worlds, Roadblocks, Minecraft, and Fortnite, 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.240 and he is so comfortable there. If his first job 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.560 is something similar to any of those experiences, then okay, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.919 I'm kind of getting you there, but that you know, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.480 that's when he's twenty four, twenty years down the line. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.360 So again, I think there's gonna be a lot of 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.640 growing pains here, as with any big shift in the workplace. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.080 And my god, I mean, how many huge shifts are 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.039 happening at the same time in the workplace as we're 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.159 talking about whether or not the metaverse is going to 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.800 be really impacting corporations. You know, we've got organizing movement, 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.119 labor organizing movements at places like Starbucks. We have people 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.200 freaking out over the fact that they don't even know 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.360 where their remote workers are, much less how to pay them. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.480 I mean, there's so much going on, not to mention 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.200 the whole return to office battle that you know, I 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.400 can imagine how moving work to the metaverse, or corporations 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.599 shifting a lot of their operations to the metaverse might 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.320 become slightly lower priority when they can't even hold on 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.800 to their best people. Work is hard is a big 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.039 takeaway I'm hearing there. But what you're also saying is 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:14.440 something that we hear a lot about kind of everything 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.600 that tends to be smushed into like crypto plus web 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.960 three plus metaverse, which is the criticism that these are 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.120 solutions in search of problems. And you know, there are 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.080 always going to people who will be like, no, no, no, no. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.520 Bitcoin actually solves x y Z or Web three solves ABC. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.680 But there's way less consensus on what's exactly the metaverse 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.560 solves for what it even is when different people are 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.359 talking about it. But that doesn't seem to have stopped 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.599 some corporations from hiring chief metaverse off exactly. But I 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.840 think they're chasing the consumer opportunity here rather than figuring 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.440 out how it's going to change the way that they work. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.520 I mean, all the luxury companies doing you know, metaverse 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:02.520 fashion shows and um, you know Starbucks doing their coffee 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.680 related n f T s whatever that turns out to be. UM. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.839 You know, they are very much looking at this as 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.719 as a branding opportunity, UM down the line away to 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.560 get closer to customers because again, a lot of big 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.200 brands missed the boat with e commerce, were very slow 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.520 to that UM and do not want to miss that 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.560 that boat again. So digital you know, fomo is is 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.520 very much a part of this. But how Proctor and 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.040 Gamble and LVMH and all the companies that are hiring 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.200 chief metaverse officers, it seems like that role is sort 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.279 of being put in place to have a point person. Okay, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.360 you're in charge. Now. We know there's a lot going 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.320 on with this metaverse stuff and you know, UM, but 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.760 we don't really understand it. I'm a fifty six year 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.839 old CEO from Central Casting. You know, I went to Harvard, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.839 then Mackenzie and now I'm here. I don't get this stuff. 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.000 Let me hire somebody or find somebody internally for a 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.240 heck of a lot cheaper. You know who maybe was 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.400 talking to me about n f t S the other day. Hey, 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.040 you could be our chief metaverse officer and you let 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.480 you smile. But that's as easy, that's as quickly as 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.160 it is happening in some of these places. You must 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.239 know something about this. Well, now you are are newly 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:13.040 minted chief metaverse officer. Congratulations, And then there's sort of 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.000 like crickets. THO was like, well, what in the world 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:16.680 do I do now? And that was the whole point 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.400 of my story. What do these people do all day? 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.600 We know some of them are getting million dollar paychecks. Okay, 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.680 are they deserving of them? Um? We don't really know yet. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.560 But you know, if one of these chief metaverse officers 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.120 turns their brand into you know, sort of this amazing 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.360 Web three phenomenon, then they're earning every penny or are 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.600 they not. There have been a few stories I'm thinking 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:46.560 of Kashmir Hill for example, of folks who have tried 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.080 to be in the metaverse, and Alex Brinka the other 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.760 day exactly. Um, and you know, one of the things 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.840 that they have said is it's kind of exhausting because 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.240 you right now to in order to achieve that, especially 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.040 if you're thinking of it as a virtual reality context, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:04.760 is like you've got something strapped to your face, ye 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.280 ways over a pound. You know, it's it's a little 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:14.160 bit disorienting. It's you're there, aren't always other people there, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.679 right like, So you know that's something that we've seen 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.960 in crypto, for example, there are spaces there's one called 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.680 the Sandbox, as one called the Central Land where the 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.760 number of active users in there like relative to kind 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.000 of like your typical gaming platform is very low, and 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:33.079 so you've got like a dead zone. Nobody is necessarily 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.079 here a problem, and then you have got the question 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.160 of Okay, I'm here, how do I fill in my 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.839 Excel spreadsheets? Like, like what practically can I be doing 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.320 in the metaverse? To your points about experimentation, given that 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.959 people can't really do much in most cases right now, 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.199 what are some of the strongest arguments you've heard corporations 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.120 make for why they're plowing forward if they are I mean, 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.920 one could be just collaboration. We certainly have been disconnected 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.600 it over the past two years, and you know, for 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.239 a forty something maybe seeing a colleague in the metaverse 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.679 isn't going to be enough. Maybe not enough too then 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.200 you know, having like an in person lunch or a 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.560 drink after work. But maybe for younger workers, you know, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.840 having a more immersive collaborative experience, whether that's onboarding a 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.440 new employee, doing a training session, sitting in a big 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.680 virtual auditorium to listen to you know, you're your fearless 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.000 leader tell you that we're going to attack this or 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:31.720 that market, or you know, we're going to do this 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.080 or that. Um, that might be you know, enough to 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.400 get to have people sort of feel a sense. Okay, 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.120 I'm kind of getting a better sense. And here are 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.240 my colleagues, and they are you know, I look to 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.000 my right and my left and and there, okay, there 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.240 they are. They might not have legs, but there they are, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.800 and they're chatting, and we're kind of like passing notes 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.720 during the meeting. And isn't that funny? I mean, maybe 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.360 that will be enough. I'm not sure yet. Um, But then, 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.040 you know, Alex Brinka's story the other day was great 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.680 because you know, she was trying to she couldn't figure 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.560 out if she could type while she was in you know, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.000 in the metaverse, and and then her makeup got smushed, 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.240 and it's you know, it's like, it's always the everyday 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.760 stuff that ends up being the huge issue here. You know, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.120 it's just happened throughout technology. You know this better than 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.760 I do. It's that they often overlook the every day 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.079 the cotidian examples like wait, Howard did we account for this? Oh, 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.640 don't worry about it. This technology is wonderful. It'll solve 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.720 all our problems. Um. So it's figuring out those little 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.920 things like yeah, can I do an Excel spreadsheet? Can 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.199 I just do my expenses in the Why in the 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.040 world would I want to do my expenses in the metaverse? 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.640 You don't ever do them anywhere? Um? But could I 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.880 be onboarded and meet all my new fellows some are interns. Okay, 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.640 now you're kind of now I'm with you a little bit. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.280 I mean, yes, I might rather be going out going 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.920 bowling with them in real life, but it's a start. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.319 We'll be right back with more from Bloomberg Senior Reports. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:11:08.760 Matt Boyle. In the story that you rose about chief 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.959 metaverse officers, you talked about one in particular that wasn't 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.679 even a person. Yes, that was very interesting, as kind 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.800 of prompted my my interest here when someone said, hey, Matt, 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.400 have you heard about these chief metaverurse officers? I said, oh, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.439 let me look into it. And one of the first 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.680 companies that came up is Publicis Group, which is a big, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:31.520 massive advertising giant. Their French, um, their clients are Nestlee, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:36.320 Walmart ubs, I mean blue chip clients. They do very well. Um. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:37.880 But when I looked into it, they said, oh, they 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.319 hired a chief metaverse officer and said, oh, who is here? 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.679 She I'd love to interview this person, and I realized 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.679 it was not a person. It was a digital avatar, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.400 a very sleek, French speaking or I guess French accented 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.000 lion named Leon. Of course, his name was Leon, who 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.599 had a YouTube video and he had a linked in profile, 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.840 and he had an email address, although every time I 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.480 emailed him it got bounced act to me. Um, so 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:05.560 maybe he's still you know, maybe they're not maybe still onboarding, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.079 or hasn't got his email, or maybe he's like you 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.120 know us young people, he's like email, what's email? I 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.760 don't use the email slack me. Um. But in the end, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.959 and of course, given Publicius as French, it took them 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.640 three months to get back to me to basically say like, well, yes, 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.360 this is our chief metaverse officer and you know, and 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.280 but like then when they finally got back to me, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.760 they said, how many hundreds of of agency people are 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.559 actually working with their brands on sort of Web three 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.840 related stuff. I'm like, okay, well now it's getting interesting. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.839 But again that was because brands really want to figure 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.040 this out. It was not because everybody at Publicis Group 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.400 is working in the metaverse. God forbid, you know, how 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:41.920 are you going to take your you know, your two 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.640 hour lunch in France in the metaverse? I think you'd 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.760 much rather be at a bistro somewhere. Um. So, yes, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.600 it really runs the gamut from digital avatars, two very 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.080 high qualifiled people you know who used to work at 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.040 McKenzie and at Goldman Sachs who are becoming chief metaverse 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.240 officers too. Again, the other people I mentioned the other 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:00.760 day is just like the guy in the room who 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.280 raises his hand when they say, who knows anything about 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.840 n F T S Bam, you're a chief metaverse officer. 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.880 So that's how haphazard the approaches right now among companies. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.520 But they all kind of agree this is something we've 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.720 got to pay attention to. As you say it's it's 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.319 not like companies haven't done this before, right, like twenty 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.320 years ago, it was like anyone heard of the Internet? Great, 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.319 you know, in charge of our digital and now you're 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.199 the chief transformation officer, the chief digital officer. I mean, 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.840 as we know, the C suites are never hesitant to 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.000 add yet another person to the c suite um. And 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.400 while some of them have real like a chief information 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.720 officer you need, you need a person in charge of 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.600 your internal I T. But then there's a chief Technology 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.760 officer who's like, Okay, well I'm in charge of finding 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.000 out what's next in technology. And then you have a 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.560 chief Digital officer, and now you have a Chief Metaverse officer. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:49.079 And I can imagine the four of them in a 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.960 room sort of arguing over like, you know, who's really 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.280 the top tech you know, gun um. I would not 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.040 want to be in that room, but I'm sure those 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.480 conversations are happening somewhere in corporate America. Yeah, just not 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.480 necessarily in virtual reality. Thank you so much, Matt for 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:08.160 being here. What a pleasure. You can find more of 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.760 Matt Boyle's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal on bloomberg dot com, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.240 where he writes for Workshift and on Twitter at biz 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.920 boil and if you're interested in more about the future 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.400 of work, follow Workshift on Twitter at the future yep, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.800 that's apt t h E f U t U r E. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.760 On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto, finance people, including 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:39.760 to be clear, finance reporters love round numbers love them. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.040 So we're celebrating episode one hundred of the Bloomberg Crypto 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.080 podcast by answering some of the questions you sent in. 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.320 Thanks to everyone who emailed us at Crypto Bloomberg dot net, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.880 replied to our survey or message just on Twitter. This 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.000 is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.320 Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.400 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.440 get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.480 for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net or 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:17.320 find us on Twitter. We're at Crypto. The supervising producer 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.880 of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our senior producer is 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.560 Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed Faruk and Sharon Barriro. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.680 Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses on Desta 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.640 wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrn. 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.920 I'm Stacy Marie schml We'll be back tomorrow.