1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Game Changers. I'm Bloomberg producer Matt Goldman. 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: As the Earth is facing an increasingly consequential climate crisis, 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: inquisitive minds all over the globe are hard at work 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: trying to find solutions. Many of them have been able 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: to translate their Eureka moments into action at a greater 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: pace and scope than the sometimes gloomy headlines will have 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: us think. In this four part mini series, will meet 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: the visionary minds who attempt to sculpt the future of 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: sustainable energy and global resources. We'll get a peek behind 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: the curtains of their factory floors here of the sometimes 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: surprising origins of their ideas, and be introduced to a 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: potentially greener tomorrow. Episode one is all about transportation. Oh yeah, okay, 13 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: they want me to clap, They want me to clap? Hey, 14 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: pen too good? Are you? So? This is This is 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: our new drive train. It's called duo power. Our original 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: drive train was a single electric motor. Ryan Popple is 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: showing us around the Protera factory floor in Los Angeles, California. 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: He's a tidy man in his early forties, confidently determined, 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: always with the number or stat to counter any question 20 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: we might throw his way. He speaks of the place 21 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: with fondness and an unbridled enthusiasm, like he's treating us 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: to a glimpse of the global future. The place is huge, 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: meticulously clean, filled with worrying busy robots, and dotted with 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: enormous vehicles. For the uninitiated, the scene is at once 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: familiar and futuristic. At pro Terra, they build buses, electric buses. 26 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: That is, yes, so so pro Tera, I would say, 27 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: is a is a late stage technology, venture backed company. 28 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: We are several hundred ease um, We have over a 29 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: hundred enterprise scale customers, and we have orders across the 30 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: United States and in a couple of Canadian provinces. We 31 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: often get the question, is pro Tarra bus company? Orse? 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: Pro Terra technology company? I think pro Tear is probably 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: the first bus manufacturing company that is a technology company. 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: But I think in the twenty one century, if companies 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: are going to remain relevant, if they're going to survive, 36 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: they are going to have to become technology companies. Paints, 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: more rap What else do we look at? Oh, here's 38 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: l A D O T so this is this is 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: one of the first bodies that's going to start on 40 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: the line soon. And this sole this is a thirty 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: five ft bus. It's part of a series of electric 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: buses that are going to be built for the city 43 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: of Los Angeles and their teachers. Together, busses and freight 44 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: trucks generate of all global warming emissions that come from 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: the transportation sector, and there are a lot of them. 46 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: Almost one million registered buses roll around the streets to 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: the United States. Here Ryan sees an opportunity not only 48 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: to help the environment, but to take a robust share 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: of an almost untapped but potentially huge market. And we've 50 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: taken a long view and said, we know that the 51 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: future of this market is electric, and we're not going 52 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: to waste any of our time trying to be good 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: at diesel buses. The industry lifespan, or the remaining lifespan 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: of the diesel bus industry is very short. It's probably 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: less than ten years. So we're able to simply focus 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: on building and perfecting an electric bus and the charging 57 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: infrastructure associated with it. But his passion and ideas didn't 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. To trace his journey to this 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: futuristic factory floor, we have to travel back to a 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: different time in a very different place. I serve four 61 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: years on active duty. I UM had the pleasure of 62 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: serving as a as a tank commander, a tank platoon leader, 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: UM Humby platoon leader, and a couple of other functions 64 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: as well. UM and deployed to the Middle East in 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: early two thousand three and participated in Operation Iraqi Freedom. 66 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: You know, certainly got a lot of experience with vehicle 67 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: technology and heavy vehicles. UM. It was a remarkable experience 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: to be able to serve with other UM, other soldiers 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: and UM lead troops and work for some of the 70 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: best leaders I've ever encountered. At first, his interest in 71 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: sustainable energy was utilitarian rather than idealistic, But it also 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,679 Speaker 1: was a pretty stark experience in terms of just seeing 73 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: how volatile some parts of the world are, in particular 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: parts that were very much dependent on FORUM for fuel 75 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: production or petroleum supply. So, you know, seeing UM depolling 76 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: into Kuwait and then UM operating in Iraq with with 77 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: an infantry division, you definitely get a sense that that 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of parts of the world 79 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily the best places to underwrite for long 80 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: term energy supply. So When I finished up in the 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: army in two thousand four and went to business school, 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: I very much wanted to work on something related too. 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: I guess what would be referred to as energy security, 84 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: and as I looked into it, I was not convinced 85 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: that we were going to produce our way out of 86 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: the problem. If you if you really look into the 87 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: way the oil markets function, regardless of how much oil 88 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: the US produces, we really don't have control over the 89 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: price of oil we are. We are not the cheapest 90 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: marginal capacity that's Saudi Arabia UM. And so if we're 91 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: going to have some energy security or energy independence, we 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: have to create alternatives to petroleum. Armed with his new 93 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: ideas in perspective and a business degree to boot, Ryan 94 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: gravitated to a company that seemed to match his ideas, Tesla. 95 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: My reason for being at Tesla was not because I 96 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: was a sports car enthusiast. It was because of the 97 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: environmental sustainability, that the clean tech aspect of what Tesla did. 98 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: By moving over to an investing role for four or 99 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: five years, I really got to look broadly at the 100 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: entire carbon problem, the sustainability problem, and I was able 101 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: to find companies and technologies like pro Terra that took 102 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: the technology that I loved and appreciated from Tesla but 103 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: deployed it into a category that um that probably wouldn't 104 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: have access to clean car technology for a long time. 105 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 1: But eventually Ryan realized that even though electric cars seemed 106 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: like a huge step in the right direction, they still 107 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: came with insurmountable issues when we look at urban sustainability. 108 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: The concept of everyone being able to afford an electric 109 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: car and driving an electric car is a very bad 110 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: thing from a congestion and lifestyle perspective. You cannot solve 111 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: the congestion problems simply by making cars cleaner. So Ryan 112 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: envisioned a world with environmental stability but without the congestion. 113 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: The answer, he realized, was right under our noses, mass transit. 114 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: During his time at Tesla, he had been introduced to 115 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: pro Terra, a company that seemed to fit his evolving 116 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: sustainability philosophy. I joined pro Terra in twenty four seen 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: as the CEO when the company was just starting to 118 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: ship commercial product, and my role since then has been 119 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: perfecting the technology and really ensuring that e V can 120 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: become of the city bus market in North America. By 121 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: the way e V means electric vehicle, becoming one of 122 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: the market seems pretty grandiose, but if you zoom in 123 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: on the data, it doesn't actually seem like that crazy 124 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: of an idea. Replacing internal combustion busses with e busses 125 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: as well in the works, and electric buses will take 126 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: over half of the world's bus fleets. By the caveat, 127 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: almost none of this work is happening in the United States. 128 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: As of China already had a fleet of over four 129 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: electric buses, and counting in Europe, we're looking at just 130 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: over two thousand in the US about six hundred six hundred. 131 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: That's less than one percent of America's public transportation fleet. 132 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: So there's certainly a lot of room for growth. But 133 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: how is Ryan planning to seduce a market that clearly 134 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: hasn't been able to see the virtues of electric buses. 135 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: The benefits of going electric aren't always direct. Environmental improvements 136 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: can be slow and works in tandem with other technical 137 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: and philosophical changes, and perhaps more important for a potential buyer, 138 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: the buses with chargeable battery will last for about twelve years, 139 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: but that does come with an upfront cost for the 140 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: manufacturer and hence also the consumer. Back at the factory floor, 141 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: Ryan showed us how it works. Here's another set of battery, 142 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: or here's another look at the Praterra energy storage system. 143 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: So again, these are each ten kilo what hours. That's 144 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: over a megawatt hour of energy right there, just in 145 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: those ten packs. It's designed to be in a transit 146 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: application for twelve years. It's electrically and mechanically warranted for 147 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: that amount of time. We are trying to educate the 148 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,599 Speaker 1: market to think about the fact that the battery represents 149 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: the energy that the vehicle is going to use over 150 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,119 Speaker 1: a twelve year life. And when you buy a diesel bus, 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: you don't pay upfront for twelve years of diesel fuel. 152 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: That would be hundreds of thousands of dollars of capital expenditure. 153 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: The answer comes from the business side, not the factory floor. 154 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: Potera offers a kind of energy payment plan. So a 155 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: lot of the smaller cities that don't necessarily have the 156 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: capital for the switching cost, what we do is we 157 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: break the battery out of the cost of the vehicle, 158 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: and they pay for the vehicle for the same price 159 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: as a diesel bus and then they pay for the 160 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: battery over time like it was the fuel, and that's 161 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: enabled a lot of cities that that might not necessarily 162 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: have the capital to make the switch, to be able 163 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: to do so now. So we're there technically and financially. 164 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: The only thing Ryan c is holding us back is politics. 165 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: As an American, UM, I'm well aware of that. Our 166 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: tradition is that you know, it's that famous quote that 167 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: eventually Americans will do the right thing. Um. So I 168 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: think we're approaching that point where we are going to 169 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: wake up and then we will respond with an enormous 170 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: amount of energy and create UM. And technologically we are. 171 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: We are at the moment where we can start really 172 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: scaling clean energy. The energy balance of a solar panel, 173 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: as in the amount of energy you put in to 174 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: build a solar panel compared to the lifetime amount of 175 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: energy that'll it'll put out, exceeds that of fracking oil. 176 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: So we're we're at a point where the science and 177 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: the economics suggests that this is going to happen. The 178 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: only thing I worry about is if we hold back 179 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: or distort the markets and unnaturally extend the life of 180 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry by another decade or two, once 181 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: Americans have come to their senses. Ryan has lofty ideas 182 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: and what the future holds for electric vehicles. So all 183 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: of the markets that share the same characteristics as the 184 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: city bus market, meaning markets where vehicles are driven a 185 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: lot of miles per year, and they're operating in an 186 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: urban or a fleet based region, and they're using a 187 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: lot of energy per mile, we think all of those 188 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: markets are great applications for EV. And that includes things 189 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: like school buses, like coach buses, refuse local delivery, construction, 190 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: mining vehicles. All of those applications are are going to 191 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: move to e V for the same reasons that the 192 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: city bus market moved to e V. I believe that 193 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: my my kids who are um, you know, grade school, 194 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: in high school, when they are adults and when they're 195 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: actually at a point in their career where they can 196 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: make a difference, it will be too late to have 197 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,599 Speaker 1: made a difference. So they we will be in a 198 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: we will be in I guess an adaptation or mitigation 199 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: mode if our generation doesn't do more about this. So 200 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: I think that you know, when I look at my 201 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: own career trajectory and my peers were ideally positioned to 202 00:11:46,679 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: do something about this. This episode was produced by Magnus 203 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: Hendrickson and presented by Yours Trulli MATC Goldman. For a 204 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: visual experience of Game Changers and other video content, check 205 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: out YouTube dot com Slash Bloomberg special thanks to Francesca 206 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: Levie and Jordan Applinger. See you next time.