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Speaker 1: free trial today. Well, hi there, welcome to another episode
Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. I am your host Joe, joined as
Speaker 1: always by and Steve and Yes, and this week we
Speaker 1: have a horse co host. Yeah, Devn Devon's Devon's had
Speaker 1: a little problem with your voice, but bear with us.
Speaker 1: It still sounds good. You're I can understand you, So
Speaker 1: I think we'll be all right. My cousin told my
Speaker 1: new husband that this is actually my real voice that
Speaker 1: I've been hiding from him for the last four years.
Speaker 1: I love this theory. Well, you know, actually there's worse news.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be like, oh, I never told
Speaker 1: you actually have a really hypits voice. It's really annoying.
Speaker 1: It's actually pretty annoying. So yeah, okay, let's get back
Speaker 1: to back to that. But too bad about the voice.
Speaker 1: But next week it'll be better, I'm sure. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: we got a mystery to talk about this week, so
Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Eh. Yes, we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about the mysterious death of William McCray. That's William McCray,
Speaker 1: properly known as Willia McCray, Scottish lawyer and politician, who
Speaker 1: died in a strange auto accident in Because this is
Speaker 1: strange because when the smoke it cleared from the accident, uh,
Speaker 1: which wouldn't have been failed to him, and also turned
Speaker 1: out he had been shot in the head, which is
Speaker 1: not normally what happens when you wreck a car. No,
Speaker 1: not tally Yeah, game, it's kind of a surprise. Before
Speaker 1: we go any further, though, I want to give a
Speaker 1: shout out to our listener Michael, who suggested this story
Speaker 1: way back in So Hey, Michael, assume you're Scottish, So yeah,
Speaker 1: tell all your Scottish friends and an honor of our
Speaker 1: all of our Scottish listeners, I'm going to do the
Speaker 1: rest of this episode in Scottish brogue. Well that's going
Speaker 1: to destroy our ratings. Okay, okay, never mind, let's skip
Speaker 1: the brogue, so let's talk about Willie. Yeah, now, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I another another apology to our Scottish listeners.
Speaker 1: But I wonder I hear about scotsman named Willie. There's
Speaker 1: only one Willie. I think of groundskeeper, groundskeeper Willie. I
Speaker 1: knew that's where you're gonna go, I know. But yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: back we haven't been doing this for five years or something,
Speaker 1: So back to William mccraig. Willie was born in nineteen
Speaker 1: three in Scotland. Of course, I served in World War
Speaker 1: Two in France and then also in India. Uh, just
Speaker 1: stant military intelligence. Eventually went back to civilian life and
Speaker 1: became a lawyer. Went on to start his own law firm,
Speaker 1: Levi and McCrae in Glasgow, Scotland. Uh well. They also
Speaker 1: joined the Scottish National Party. He was indeed an intense
Speaker 1: Scottish nationalist. He was big into that whole thing. He
Speaker 1: began to rise in the ranks in the SNP and
Speaker 1: he rose to the rank of vice chairman in the party. Uh.
Speaker 1: He also stood for elections several times, but never actually
Speaker 1: won office. It seemed like every time he went he
Speaker 1: ran it was a wider and wider margin from him
Speaker 1: being able to take the seat. If I remember the
Speaker 1: numbers correctly, like he was. They really liked him at first,
Speaker 1: and then he just kept running in his numbers just
Speaker 1: kept going down, like Paul Rand. Yeah, yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure you mean Rand. Paul Rand, Paul Yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: people knowing both ways, he doesn't matter. Uh yeah. Well.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is is I I never met the
Speaker 1: guy or anything like that, but I've seen video of
Speaker 1: him speaking. Actually he the guy was a good public speaker.
Speaker 1: I mean I thought it was anyway. You know, sometimes
Speaker 1: what happens is somebody's a good public speaker and so
Speaker 1: people are really taking with them. At first, I don't
Speaker 1: like their ideas, and then they start to actually listen
Speaker 1: to their ideas and see how effective they are, and
Speaker 1: maybe question is this person actually going to be effective?
Speaker 1: Maybe they haven't been proving themselves maybe there yeah, so maybe,
Speaker 1: you know, at first he was just one charisma, and
Speaker 1: the next it was kind of like every single time
Speaker 1: there they said, he lesn't less effective. This is just
Speaker 1: maybe it's not a good idea, or maybe he just
Speaker 1: had a really really really bad run of luck. And
Speaker 1: every time he just had a better, more charismatic opponent.
Speaker 1: And maybe I've got a bad run of luck there,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But but anyway, that didn't totally hold
Speaker 1: Willie back. He didn't get an MP position or anything else,
Speaker 1: but he was still pretty influential I think in the
Speaker 1: SNP and Scottish politics until the faithfully being a Friday,
Speaker 1: April five, when William mccraig left his house in Glasgow
Speaker 1: to drive to his cottage and art Dell, which is
Speaker 1: about a hundred ten miles northwest of Glasgow. Hundred seventy
Speaker 1: five kilometers and that's crow miles road miles road miles
Speaker 1: would be nearly twice said, because there's no direct highway
Speaker 1: that goes to our what is that in cow miles? Yeah,
Speaker 1: cow and crow miles, cow miles. It's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: hundred eighty six thousand, I think, but yeah, you can
Speaker 1: find our Del. It's it's just I guess I would
Speaker 1: have called that kilometers. Oh, I like that kilometers, Okay,
Speaker 1: So nixing that idea. Our Del is like kind of
Speaker 1: towards the west coast of Scotland. It's not a it's
Speaker 1: on a lock. You know actually, which is actually kind
Speaker 1: of a fjord and which actually connects to the sea,
Speaker 1: so you can almost call it a sea coast sort
Speaker 1: of town. But now we shouldn't he took Reportedly, when
Speaker 1: he left, he took his briefcase and a bottle of
Speaker 1: whiskey with him, and it was what it was in
Speaker 1: the afternoon, right, it was okay, Yeah, So it was
Speaker 1: Friday time to go away for the weekend. He headed
Speaker 1: off in his maroon Volvo four and sometime that night,
Speaker 1: probably around ten pm. It's hard it's not absolutely for sure,
Speaker 1: but he was driving north on the eighties seven road
Speaker 1: about twenty four curl miles from his destination Koslos, exactly. Uh.
Speaker 1: And if Carl left the road for some reason, nobody
Speaker 1: knows exactly sure why. But it looks like it rolled
Speaker 1: a few times, because I've seen I've seen a few
Speaker 1: photos of the car. It looks pretty beat up. It's
Speaker 1: banged up. Yeah. Uh. It wound up about ninety ft
Speaker 1: from the road, pointed uphill. This is so it went
Speaker 1: off down a sort of down out, gently sloping hill
Speaker 1: and was pointed uphill towards the road where it came
Speaker 1: to rest. It was straddling a burn, which is Scottish
Speaker 1: for a very small stream. Uh. And this one was
Speaker 1: really small, like kind of a regular really And if
Speaker 1: you want to see the crash site the court as are,
Speaker 1: write this down if anybody cares. Fifty seven point one
Speaker 1: one six three one four by minus four point nine
Speaker 1: two zero eight one. That's on the eighties seven Highway,
Speaker 1: about two and a half miles south of the intersection
Speaker 1: with seven Road. Wow, that string of numbers is going
Speaker 1: to be easy to remember, everybody who listens in the car.
Speaker 1: I know exactly how many car wreckts are we gonna cause, yeah, no, careful,
Speaker 1: you can always go back and look this up again,
Speaker 1: you know. But I actually also warn you. This is
Speaker 1: where there's a monument to Willie. There's a kind of
Speaker 1: a cairn that is to some of his fans built
Speaker 1: for him there by the side of the road. Uh.
Speaker 1: And that's believed by most everybody to be the crash site.
Speaker 1: But there's a few people who say the crash site
Speaker 1: was actually about a mile south at there, so just
Speaker 1: before one, because there's there, yeah there is, But can
Speaker 1: I just ask real quick, Yeah, it is him being
Speaker 1: on that road at ten PM was about when he
Speaker 1: would have. Yeah, because the road, the trip from Glasgow
Speaker 1: court the Google anyway, the trip from Glasgow to our
Speaker 1: Dell is about a four hour drive via the eight
Speaker 1: seven road and everything. And so if he left the
Speaker 1: six thirty and he was most of the way there,
Speaker 1: then he should have gotten there no earlier than say
Speaker 1: nine thirty, and no later than ten. That of course.
Speaker 1: That that's you know, depending on It was like three
Speaker 1: quarters of the way there though, wasn't he Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was forty miles away and it was only a couple
Speaker 1: of drinks. Yeah, No, it was a hundred hundred crow
Speaker 1: miles road miles road miles, more like a couple of
Speaker 1: hundred yeah, So but yeah, I mean so he probably
Speaker 1: stopped for dinner and pea breaks, gasoline, that kind of thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: maybe he had to take petrol, okay, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he had to take d tours to try to
Speaker 1: shake off the special branch tails that were following him.
Speaker 1: Getting ahead of yourself a little bit. But anyway, it was,
Speaker 1: it was probably no earlier than nine ten, maybe a
Speaker 1: little later than that. I wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: it wasn't like odd that he was out at that time,
Speaker 1: Not really no, no, it was yeah. And the next
Speaker 1: morning a couple of tourists were driving by and they
Speaker 1: spotted the car. So that was the first discovery. That
Speaker 1: was the first people who at least reported it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they spotted the car and they stopped the husband. They
Speaker 1: were Their names were Alan Barbara Crowe. They were from Australia.
Speaker 1: And this is ten o'clock in the morning. I go
Speaker 1: right around Daniel. So Alan Crowe walked down to the car,
Speaker 1: saw that there was a person in it, and he
Speaker 1: opened the door and then took Willie's pulse, found that
Speaker 1: he did have a pulse kind of weak, but he
Speaker 1: was otherwise non responsive. And but then, as it happens,
Speaker 1: to another car drove by, So they flagged down this
Speaker 1: other car, which luckily enough was driven by a person
Speaker 1: named Dorothy Messer, who happened to be a doctor. And
Speaker 1: here's another amazing coincidence. There was also a passenger in
Speaker 1: the car named David Coots, who was a member of
Speaker 1: the s MP or the same party that will belonged to.
Speaker 1: Actually they knew each other. Yeah, he had known Willie
Speaker 1: for years and so when he was kind of shocked
Speaker 1: and surprised to see Willie sitting behind the wheel of
Speaker 1: the car that was wrecked, or maybe it wasn't. Was
Speaker 1: this a coincidence or was he a hit man? You're
Speaker 1: way ahead. Yeah, we could just start right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll save the accusations for I don't think we should.
Speaker 1: There's more story to tell, Yeah there is. Yeah. Actually
Speaker 1: I saw this guy on TV in an interview. He
Speaker 1: doesn't come off like a mob thug or a hitman
Speaker 1: at all. Also, it was, you know, twelve hours later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was that too. Yeah, the interview was much later
Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, years after. So they got down to
Speaker 1: the car. That's when he David Coupe recognized as Willie.
Speaker 1: Willie was in the driver's seat, unconscious. He was not
Speaker 1: wearing a seatbelt. Uh, and Dr Messer looked him over
Speaker 1: and guestimated he'd been sitting there for maybe around ten hours.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard to I don't know how
Speaker 1: she did that. Maybe blood plotting, because he had like
Speaker 1: a head injury. There was all over I mean it's
Speaker 1: pooled down his shirt. Yeah, and so I guess that's
Speaker 1: how she guestimated this. So he's taken to a hospital
Speaker 1: in Inverness. From there he was transferred to another hospital,
Speaker 1: which was the Aberdeen Royal infirm Ring, And they're at
Speaker 1: Aberdeen right around four in the afternoon they discovered finally
Speaker 1: that he had a bullet hole in his head, just
Speaker 1: over his right air. How long does it take to
Speaker 1: wipe the blood off of somebody's head, for God's sake,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not I don't really quite get why
Speaker 1: it took so long to figure that out. But you know, hey,
Speaker 1: I think you know you're doing triage for other stuff, right.
Speaker 1: Somebody says, well, he has a pulse. You assumed there.
Speaker 1: You know, if if there was a doctor on the
Speaker 1: scene as well, you assumed maybe she would have been
Speaker 1: noticing things. If he has a pulse, clearly he's not
Speaker 1: brain dead. Well, I would presume that he was brought
Speaker 1: in in an ambulance, so I would assume that they
Speaker 1: would have given him once over and said clean it
Speaker 1: and bandage. Yet would be my presumption, right, But life
Speaker 1: saving care is different than finding a bullet hole behind
Speaker 1: somebody's ear. Listen, I watched e er for years and
Speaker 1: that's not the way it happens. Well, you know that
Speaker 1: I know a little more than Yeah, I got one
Speaker 1: word to say to you guys stat Yeah, clear that Okay,
Speaker 1: back to you know it might but yeah it should
Speaker 1: have should they should have found it faster. But also
Speaker 1: well I would have thought that crazy to me, I guess,
Speaker 1: I don't know. The guy comes in with a head injury,
Speaker 1: and I would think the first thing you would do
Speaker 1: would be like, actually has had to see if he's
Speaker 1: got any you know, massive like brain swelling. I'm afraid
Speaker 1: you were right back to exactly what I guess. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, whatever, it's water runder the bridge, right,
Speaker 1: but the water runder the car, I guess in this case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know when they found a bullet hole, they actually
Speaker 1: just had there was a bullet in his brain. So
Speaker 1: while that changes things, it turns out it wasn't an
Speaker 1: auto accident after all, but the local police apparently didn't
Speaker 1: get the memo on that. So his car was towed
Speaker 1: from the scene at noon the next day. And so
Speaker 1: I've been Sunday Sunday. Yeah, I believe it was about
Speaker 1: noon on Sunday to seventh. By the way, can I
Speaker 1: can I point something out because people will see this
Speaker 1: when they're reading this on the internet, and it was
Speaker 1: confusing to me at first, until I figured out what
Speaker 1: the problem with the reporting was. Is sometimes you will
Speaker 1: see it reported as he left on Friday and he
Speaker 1: wasn't found until Sunday. And it took me forever to
Speaker 1: figure out that what happened is people were mixing up
Speaker 1: the date that the car was hauled away as the
Speaker 1: date that Willie was found. In other words, not twelve
Speaker 1: hours of him being gone, but thirty six hours. And
Speaker 1: I was like this, It really took me a long
Speaker 1: time to feel because I kept reading the different articles
Speaker 1: and I couldn't understand. And then that's the only way
Speaker 1: I've determined that the screw happened. Yeah, no, I I
Speaker 1: don't think the road is that remote. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was quite that remote that nobody would have seen
Speaker 1: him for that long time. So anyway, so they go
Speaker 1: back to there at the car they're hauling. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: car has been hauled away, so they didn't see it
Speaker 1: as a potential crime scene. At first, I thought it
Speaker 1: was a car accident. This guy had just gone off
Speaker 1: the road, right, we had not the first time that's happened.
Speaker 1: And as for the car itself, that was of course
Speaker 1: in the police's possession. There were three things that were
Speaker 1: not in it. The gun that shot Willie, his briefcase
Speaker 1: which supposedly had with him, and also that bottle of
Speaker 1: whiskey they supposedly took with him. Those things were not
Speaker 1: in the car, and they had been found on the
Speaker 1: ground and around the car either. So this is this
Speaker 1: is one of the things that I found really odd
Speaker 1: about this story that the police, the local police, after
Speaker 1: they found out that it was a crime scene, at
Speaker 1: least potentially, they took the car back to where that
Speaker 1: the wreck was and put it back in the same
Speaker 1: spot where they found it so they could take pictures
Speaker 1: of it. Well, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: They should have already taken pictures of it, anyway, I
Speaker 1: would have thought. Apparently they didn't. So they put the
Speaker 1: car back and they searched the area, and this time
Speaker 1: they found the gun. It was about sixty ft from
Speaker 1: the car, and it was in the burn, which you
Speaker 1: remember as a stream, so they and it was kind
Speaker 1: of below a little little tiny waterfall in the burn,
Speaker 1: which is maybe why nobody spotted it at first, And
Speaker 1: it was a forty five caliber Smith and Western revolver
Speaker 1: which had been fired twice, you know, as in there
Speaker 1: were just two bullets missing or cartridge case things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which means that, yeah, it had it have been. All
Speaker 1: that means is it Obviously it was fired once because
Speaker 1: he had a bullet in his head, but the other
Speaker 1: one that was the actual gun. But yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: true to that too. But but I just you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems like people say I'd been fired twice.
Speaker 1: But like we've talked about this before, you don't get
Speaker 1: your you don't know that, and I don't get your
Speaker 1: gun all the way full. Yeah, well it had it
Speaker 1: had empty it had entry empty brass in it shoot
Speaker 1: empty brass. Yeah, and so he forgot it. Yeah. Well, well,
Speaker 1: I think Joe's idea is right though, is that he
Speaker 1: may have shot it once at some point and left
Speaker 1: that empty shot that if you round in there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, because you don't always just open it up
Speaker 1: and replace him. It's not like the Deo game, where
Speaker 1: as soon as you can you reload. Yeah, well you
Speaker 1: think it would. But think about it, is is this
Speaker 1: this gun and by the way, imagined it was a
Speaker 1: forty five caliber Smith and Weston turns. That's what's on
Speaker 1: Wikipedia and in some other places too. It turns out
Speaker 1: that's not what it was. It seems like it would
Speaker 1: have been a pretty noticeable bullet hole. You would think
Speaker 1: that somebody would have noticed that big old bullet hole. Lot.
Speaker 1: That would have done a hell of a lot of damage,
Speaker 1: like missing skull damage. Yeah, like like you know, the
Speaker 1: other side of the skull blasted away the Yeah, the
Speaker 1: bullet would probably not be rattling around in his skull. Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably gone out to the other side. Yeah. The one
Speaker 1: that they found was actually a very old Smith and
Speaker 1: Weston It's called the first issue or excuse me, the
Speaker 1: first model revolver and the d It was called that
Speaker 1: because it was the very first gun that Smith and
Speaker 1: Wesson ever made. It was made around the time of
Speaker 1: the American Civil War, so it's old, very old antique gun. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it was a single action revolver, seven shots chambered
Speaker 1: in twenty two short, which is about the most anemic
Speaker 1: round you can think of. Tiny, little, very anemic, little
Speaker 1: small round. Sorry you said it. On a lot of
Speaker 1: sources it says it's forty five, but you know it's
Speaker 1: something else. How do you know that? Well, well, number
Speaker 1: one there was there was actually what I thought was
Speaker 1: a fairly comprehensive article in one of the Scottish papers
Speaker 1: about it, and they actually had a picture of the
Speaker 1: revolver and so and so. And I'm not an expert
Speaker 1: on smith and lesson antique revolvers by any means, but
Speaker 1: I did a little googling on, you know, antiques. I
Speaker 1: found a website where all these things were up for
Speaker 1: auction and there were quite a few of those old
Speaker 1: first model ones out there, and I compared the photos
Speaker 1: very carefully, and you know, they looked absolutely identical. They were,
Speaker 1: and I did a little research. It was indeed, the
Speaker 1: first model was a seven shot revolver, just like this
Speaker 1: this thing, and the story was and then beyond that story,
Speaker 1: the official inquiry was also was also quoted in a
Speaker 1: few places too, was conduct two. They didn't see what
Speaker 1: the model was, but well, but they call it a
Speaker 1: They don't call it a twenty two. They call it
Speaker 1: a point to toot to. Yeah, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: are also aren't there different namings for the size of
Speaker 1: calibers and different countries that inaccurate Some of them can be.
Speaker 1: Depends Yeah, it depends on them. But I think because
Speaker 1: of the age of this gun, it was just it
Speaker 1: was a pretty well established it's just that we call
Speaker 1: it a twenty two. They call it a point to too.
Speaker 1: But if you buy a box of twenty two caliber here,
Speaker 1: it's got the the decimal point is there? Yeah, yeah, okay, yesterday,
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, and you do,
Speaker 1: and we do indeed know that it was actually much smaller.
Speaker 1: It wasn't much smaller around yeah and uh, and this
Speaker 1: is why this would explain I think the the the
Speaker 1: empty cartridge case thing that was in there, because this
Speaker 1: was a lot of the really old single actions. What
Speaker 1: they didn't have a safety notch or anything in the hammer,
Speaker 1: and so when the gun was fully loaded, your hammer
Speaker 1: was resting on the primer of a of a hot round.
Speaker 1: And so if you drop the gun or something just
Speaker 1: fell on you on your gonna whack the hammer, it
Speaker 1: could go off and maybe shoot you in the leg.
Speaker 1: It was maybe a safety precaution that you'd have one
Speaker 1: just empty shell case. You'd either leave it. You would
Speaker 1: either leave that whole thing empty, or he'd put a
Speaker 1: piece of brass casing in there. Uh. And so that's
Speaker 1: probably what it did, is you just put an empty
Speaker 1: shell casing in there to put his hammer down. That's
Speaker 1: what I think, But I'm not totally sure when Pierre supposition,
Speaker 1: but I would not. I would not personally hear that
Speaker 1: gun with the hammer down on a live round myself.
Speaker 1: So that was apparently I don't know where he got
Speaker 1: that from. It might have just been in the family
Speaker 1: for years, who knows, but he he apparently Pardoner friends
Speaker 1: had had that gun for a long time, and some
Speaker 1: people said he had started carrying it for personal protection
Speaker 1: and it was his gun. Apparently was his gun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't registered. I mean, that's the thing about
Speaker 1: Europe is, like, you know, it's supposedly a gun free area,
Speaker 1: but it just seems like a lot of people have
Speaker 1: these old guns just lying around. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm trying to remember when the big push
Speaker 1: to get guns out of the British aisles were and
Speaker 1: I believe it was after this, but well I believe
Speaker 1: it was after this, but but it was right around
Speaker 1: the same time. Like I mean, it didn't the entire
Speaker 1: country did not go gunless right away. It took quite
Speaker 1: a few years for that to take effect. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean the big push to really get
Speaker 1: rid of every single gun took place after this. That
Speaker 1: was after the big dumb Blaine master, right, So it's
Speaker 1: not it's not crazy that he had a gun. Oh no,
Speaker 1: not like if it was today and what was the
Speaker 1: last prime minister is David Blaine? Was that his name? Cameron?
Speaker 1: Thank you, David Cameron. I am good with names today.
Speaker 1: The dumb magician guy. See the same thing to me
Speaker 1: any politics and magicians. But but it would be it's
Speaker 1: not as crazy as suddenly saying oh he had one.
Speaker 1: I was just I was just wanting to make sure
Speaker 1: that it was his gun, yeah, that it wasn't somebody
Speaker 1: else's guns. So let's see, yeah, let's see. So something
Speaker 1: else they found at the scene of the accident. They
Speaker 1: found a small pile of torn up papers. These were
Speaker 1: found by David Coutes, remember him. That was on the
Speaker 1: day they came across the wreck. Then that was between
Speaker 1: the road and the car, about twenty five ft away
Speaker 1: from the car towards the road, and he said that
Speaker 1: it looked like Willie's wristwatch was also on this pile.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a neat pile of torn up
Speaker 1: papers with the wristwatch, which is which is a lot. Uh,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know how exactly they got there,
Speaker 1: if they if they fell from the car during the rack,
Speaker 1: or if you know Willie's murderers, you know, put that
Speaker 1: stuff there. And I really don't know if Willie was murdered.
Speaker 1: That is of course, after that, the inquiry and to
Speaker 1: Willie mccraige's death was kind of minimal. It was just
Speaker 1: assumed that it was suicide because after they found the
Speaker 1: bullet in his brain, they tried to and it was
Speaker 1: figure out what to do. He died shortly thereafter. Honestly, yeah,
Speaker 1: I forgot, Yeah you didn't say I'm sorry. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: looked that. Yeah. He he was in a coma. His
Speaker 1: life support was turned off on Sunday, April seven, and
Speaker 1: he died. And as yeah, I mean obviously he sustained
Speaker 1: a lot of brain damage and swelling and all the
Speaker 1: bad things that come of that. Yeah, and that's you know,
Speaker 1: one of those things like if you get if you
Speaker 1: get medical attention pretty quickly after that happens, you have
Speaker 1: a good chance. Survived Sitting there for twelve hours not helpful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I lost a lot of blood in your
Speaker 1: brain needs blood to survive. It turns out. Yeah, kind
Speaker 1: of funny the way that. Yeah, yeah, that's a good
Speaker 1: point too. It was rule to suicide because it seems
Speaker 1: so open and shut. But this case lives on in Scotland.
Speaker 1: I mean even even today, they're still I mean there's
Speaker 1: a Kickstarter campaign out there right now by h a
Speaker 1: guy who wants to write a book about this. He's
Speaker 1: doing a little fundraising just to raise the fund so
Speaker 1: you can write this book about it. There have been
Speaker 1: songs written about it, and TV specials about it, all,
Speaker 1: tons of tons of newspaper articles, lots of conspiracizing. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like almost like Scotland's JFK conspiracy theory, although
Speaker 1: not not as huge as JFK obviously, but it's still
Speaker 1: to a lot of people are kind of a big story.
Speaker 1: A lot of suspicions out there. Uh. And in fact,
Speaker 1: in about two years after the death, when are You
Speaker 1: and rose to be President of the SNP, she actually
Speaker 1: knew Willie herself. At the request of many in the party,
Speaker 1: she launched her own investigation into Willie's death and her
Speaker 1: conclusion was that she couldn't conclude anything. She said. The
Speaker 1: Crown Office actually refused to share most of their files
Speaker 1: with her. She said she was basically stone walled, and
Speaker 1: in the end, she just couldn't say for sure what happened.
Speaker 1: She didn't accuse anybody of murder, but she just said
Speaker 1: she couldn't definitively say that Willie really did commit suicide
Speaker 1: because she just didn't have the evidence, and the reluctance,
Speaker 1: of course of the government to share their information whatever
Speaker 1: they had and naturally aroused a lot of suspicions. I mean, yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the cops. The cops defended themselves because they put the
Speaker 1: car back and then they said, oh, yeah, we found
Speaker 1: it this far away from the car, because we're pretty sure. Hey, Tommy,
Speaker 1: is this where the cars all pretty sure it's where
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, that just opens up a whole
Speaker 1: bag of worms. I was just gonna say, you know,
Speaker 1: reluctant to share information sometimes just means that they did
Speaker 1: not do a good job of collecting information, that they
Speaker 1: just didn't have anything to share. Well, it might have
Speaker 1: been well, and we'll get into this a little bit
Speaker 1: later too, but it does appear that Willie was involved with,
Speaker 1: you know, the nationalist cause, and he's involved in a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Yeah, he was, and so he probably
Speaker 1: was under at least a small degree of surveillance, and
Speaker 1: they probably had a file on him, just like you know,
Speaker 1: three of us have FBI files on us. Probably his
Speaker 1: files probably not nearly as large as ours, though probably not. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so it might have been that they just didn't
Speaker 1: want to They didn't want to open up you know,
Speaker 1: m I five files or special branch files you know,
Speaker 1: to the SNP. And so that might have been the
Speaker 1: whole reason, not that there was any skill duggreen. Uh.
Speaker 1: Another sort of suspicions when we're talking about why people
Speaker 1: were suspicious is where the gun was found. It was
Speaker 1: found sixty feet from the car, which is a little lot,
Speaker 1: you've got to admit. And it didn't have any fingerprints
Speaker 1: on it that I mentioned that, Yeah, But of course,
Speaker 1: as I said, the police say they returned the car
Speaker 1: to the scene, and this came out in an article.
Speaker 1: I think, again, this is still in the news, there's
Speaker 1: still new stuff coming out, and it turns out that
Speaker 1: this this this article in it was pretty fairly carefully documented.
Speaker 1: They said that the police put it back, but they
Speaker 1: don't believe they got it back in the exact precise spot.
Speaker 1: Where it was before the car the gun or something. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: not a moble there and something something. They said it
Speaker 1: was off by a mob But in this case they
Speaker 1: brought it back to the same spot. But they were
Speaker 1: just op by four fifty or sixty feet. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh and so the gun they did not find about yeah,
Speaker 1: nineteen and so when they actually put the they put
Speaker 1: the car back, they took lots of photographs. Now they
Speaker 1: was treating as the crun scenes, so they actually searched
Speaker 1: the surrounding area pretty thoroughly too. That's when they found
Speaker 1: the gun in the stream. Probably actually just fell out
Speaker 1: the driver's side window into the burn and sat there
Speaker 1: and detected. You know, it wasn't spotted because it was underwater.
Speaker 1: Says that it couldn't have been underneath the car where
Speaker 1: it originally set. Well, he didn't say definitively, there's absolutely
Speaker 1: no way. He said, Wow, that just seems really unlikely.
Speaker 1: That's kind of Morris toned. Well, he was there, he
Speaker 1: was standing next to it, he was looking down. There
Speaker 1: was the whole policeman lost his hat thing. I said that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that the police was pulling his body out of the
Speaker 1: car and his hat fell off into the burn and
Speaker 1: it's been over and picked up the hat and gave
Speaker 1: it back to the cop and apparently the hat fell
Speaker 1: right about where the gun should have been, right, which
Speaker 1: makes it kind of questionable if if it really was
Speaker 1: in the spot they say it was. There's all kinds,
Speaker 1: but it's it's moving. The car just screwed the whole
Speaker 1: thing up. So I don't want to go too far
Speaker 1: down there, yeah, but I'll just you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like I need to remind people that you the crash
Speaker 1: you described as the car flipped over a number of times, right,
Speaker 1: so things could have actually been flown out, and they
Speaker 1: could have been flown out. So that's true too. You
Speaker 1: know if assuming that the gun was fired or whatever
Speaker 1: before the car can to rest, could have gone flying
Speaker 1: much further. That's the tricky part is like you know,
Speaker 1: when it was a gun fired and it was actually
Speaker 1: one of the policeman that was involved in this, uh
Speaker 1: said years later that you know, it appears that he
Speaker 1: actually shot himself while driving down the road and then
Speaker 1: one off the road, and that would explain what happened,
Speaker 1: because you know, they rolled and fell it out. But
Speaker 1: that sounds like a theory that sounds like a theory.
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure about him shooting self while driving,
Speaker 1: but maybe I don't know. So that's that's all the suspicions.
Speaker 1: Have I left anything you guys can think of? No,
Speaker 1: I think you've pretty much hit all of it all right,
Speaker 1: So now it's time for us to get into hypotheses. Oh, theories? Okay,
Speaker 1: nobody calls it hypotheses. Are you kidding? I know who
Speaker 1: would do science? Yeah? This is uh the Internet? Yeah,
Speaker 1: better than the science. Before we before we get into
Speaker 1: all of our theories or hypotheses, let's take a quick break.
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Speaker 1: back all right. Ruh. See this this is basically there's
Speaker 1: essentially three theories. So let's start with the first. That
Speaker 1: it was an accident, as I as already mentioned as
Speaker 1: old smith and western. It could have been discharged by
Speaker 1: a blow on the hammer. So we don't know where
Speaker 1: he was carrying it. I assume probably like maybe the
Speaker 1: breast pocket of his coat or something like that, if
Speaker 1: he was carrying it for personal defence, so I could
Speaker 1: see that, Yeah, if he's yeah, sitting in the car,
Speaker 1: it doesn't want to have in his pants pocket. It's
Speaker 1: hard to get too quickly, right, So he runs off
Speaker 1: the road. The guns flies out of his pocket, his
Speaker 1: jacket pocket during the accidents somehow, you know, discharges. It
Speaker 1: does seem a little unlikely, doesn't it. Yeah, well, that
Speaker 1: is an amazing series of events. And plus, as I
Speaker 1: said to, it would be as said to, I have
Speaker 1: strong reason to think that Willy would have followed what
Speaker 1: was really standard protocol for those old guys and carried
Speaker 1: it with a hammer down on an empty on an
Speaker 1: empty cart, which means that it would have flown rotated
Speaker 1: the chamberlone cock the hammer, and then that just I'm
Speaker 1: not really buying that. So okay, we can dismiss that
Speaker 1: kind of quickly. I think, okay, let's go to our
Speaker 1: next one. This one is a little more possible. I think, uh, suicide. Remember,
Speaker 1: so you know a lot of people that said the
Speaker 1: government says suicide, A lot of people think murder. But
Speaker 1: when you're thinking suicide, you know that little revolver has
Speaker 1: really would have been a very unlikely assassin's tool. I
Speaker 1: think it was. I said very like I said, very
Speaker 1: old chamber in twenty two short which is a very
Speaker 1: anemic little round. I mean, that's more anemic than twenty
Speaker 1: two long rifles. Is not exactly a great suicide round,
Speaker 1: although it we'll kill somebody. Yeah, I mean, as far
Speaker 1: as the assertion that it's not a very good murder tool,
Speaker 1: it's a good murder tool if you know that that
Speaker 1: person has one. That's a good point. And people just
Speaker 1: assume that they used it on themselves. Yeah, that that
Speaker 1: that does make a little sense in that regard, And
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, you know, it'll probably will kill
Speaker 1: them with one round, and if we don't, well we'll
Speaker 1: do it with too, of course. Yeah, And obviously they
Speaker 1: succeeded with one round because only one was found in
Speaker 1: his head. But but the serious suicide, Yeah, suicide. But
Speaker 1: but again and that's why I was taking suicide because
Speaker 1: it was on with his own gun and you know,
Speaker 1: and which was, by the way, not a great murder tool.
Speaker 1: So what he did he have a history? I mean
Speaker 1: for the suicide theory and presuming that there's a history
Speaker 1: of depression or attempts at suicide or something like that,
Speaker 1: do we do We haven't anything like that. I don't
Speaker 1: know of any attempts at suicide. He did have a
Speaker 1: history of depression and he was he was a very
Speaker 1: heavy drinker also, so maybe he was self medicating for
Speaker 1: the depression. And that doesn't help. Does we help things? Yeah? Uh?
Speaker 1: He had asked some professional and personal setbacks. He got
Speaker 1: booted in one from the law firm that he had found.
Speaker 1: To remember, I mentioned Levia mccraig. He was actually removed.
Speaker 1: His name stayed on the sign and everything, but essentially
Speaker 1: he was not allowed to serve duty and the duties anymore.
Speaker 1: And I think that mostly was because of his drinking.
Speaker 1: But he had also started another practice. He had tried
Speaker 1: to start to get another practice going practice I understood
Speaker 1: was was he was trying to get it off the ground,
Speaker 1: but it had clients. Yeah, apparently it was. It was working,
Speaker 1: but but still, you know, it's, um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's got to be considered kind of a blow
Speaker 1: to at least your ego to get sort of kicked
Speaker 1: out of your own law firm that you founded. Did
Speaker 1: they did they just shut him out or did they
Speaker 1: buy him out? Because sometimes places will do that when
Speaker 1: they're like, listen, you are unfit, but we're gonna keep
Speaker 1: your name and we're gonna pay you to go away.
Speaker 1: It's not an uncommon practice in this case, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I don't think he was totally removed from it.
Speaker 1: I think that if you're if you're basically a partner,
Speaker 1: were the founding members, then I assume we still get
Speaker 1: a cut of everybody else's fee. So that's what I'm
Speaker 1: getting at. But yeah, I didn't lose that completely. They
Speaker 1: didn't totally rip him off. They said, basically, you're not
Speaker 1: representing our firm anymore because whatever reason may because you're
Speaker 1: always hungover. We don't really, we don't. We don't know
Speaker 1: exactly the reasons why there was at this break. But
Speaker 1: anyway back to his life. It says boozing was kind
Speaker 1: of ruining his life. As far as I know, no
Speaker 1: toxicology report was done in his body, so we don't
Speaker 1: know if he actually was drunk when his car went
Speaker 1: off the road or not. Guessing, you know, I'm guessing
Speaker 1: he probably was at least drinking, because you know, he
Speaker 1: was kind of a big booze hound. Not no judgment
Speaker 1: on my part, you know me too, I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of us are. But that's another aspect where the
Speaker 1: whole investigation fell short in so many ways, and it
Speaker 1: really would have been better if they did a more
Speaker 1: thorough and maybe all these questions would have been answered
Speaker 1: a little a little better and there wouldn't be all
Speaker 1: the speculation so that they didn't do with toxicology. So
Speaker 1: so what you're getting at here is that there's that
Speaker 1: three hour drive, He's got a bottle of whiskey with him,
Speaker 1: he drinks that bottle of whiskey over the course of
Speaker 1: three hours and then presumably chucks it out the window,
Speaker 1: and I'm point to dispose of the bottle, and then
Speaker 1: that's why it's not at the accident scene. That's one possibility.
Speaker 1: With one possibility another possibility is that if the car
Speaker 1: went off the road and if Willie came out of it, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, in other words, I'm probably a little banged up.
Speaker 1: But if he if he walks, can walk away from it,
Speaker 1: and he's been drinking. And Willie, by the way, I
Speaker 1: didn't mention this, had already had two arrests for drunk driving.
Speaker 1: And so if I think they call it drink driving
Speaker 1: in the UK, well I'm not sure what they call this.
Speaker 1: Drink drinking, drink driving. Okay, whatever it is, I don't
Speaker 1: know why it's drinking and drinking, but yeah, whatever that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he could have but he could have gotten to jail
Speaker 1: for it. Being a lawyer, probably would have lost his
Speaker 1: law license. I know here in America you will if
Speaker 1: you get caught, if you get arrested for something like
Speaker 1: a felony and your a lawyer or like for me
Speaker 1: for my job, I would lose my license. Also a
Speaker 1: lot of people will in professional jobs like that. So
Speaker 1: what do you do. You know, you've been boozing, you've
Speaker 1: got a half full bottle of whisk in your car.
Speaker 1: You do the natural thing. You get out of the car,
Speaker 1: you know, walk a little distance away and fling the
Speaker 1: bottle as far as you can, right, And so that
Speaker 1: might be another reason why the bottle was not found
Speaker 1: in the car. Yeah, But whatever the reason, the bottle
Speaker 1: was just not in the car. And so Willie is
Speaker 1: uh car comes to a stop and he realizes he's
Speaker 1: in a world of hurt drawn having just wrecked his car.
Speaker 1: He's in a bit of trouble. If the if the
Speaker 1: police come along and see he's wrecked his car and
Speaker 1: he's got all this booze on his breath, could this
Speaker 1: be enough to make him want to commit suicide? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I did just torch the car, kidding,
Speaker 1: just kidding, Hi, burn the evidence of kidding. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I I personally, if it had been me,
Speaker 1: what I would have done. It's just like, you know,
Speaker 1: if I had been drunk, like you know, I would
Speaker 1: have just assuming I could walk and everything like that,
Speaker 1: I would leave the car and go hide in the bushes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's a hero, that's what That's what a true
Speaker 1: superhero does. Heusually it goes and hides. But anyway, yeah,
Speaker 1: but but but you know, on the other other hand,
Speaker 1: and this is this is really out there speculation. What
Speaker 1: if Willie. What if Willie had rolled a couple of
Speaker 1: times and he's not dead by any means, He's not
Speaker 1: even unconscious, but he's he's just just sustained a spinal
Speaker 1: injury and realizes, Wow, hey, I can't move my legs.
Speaker 1: This really sucks. My life is over a bang shoot myself.
Speaker 1: And that speculate you would think they would have caught
Speaker 1: a spinal injury. Yeah, I think given how how on
Speaker 1: though this investigation was, I could actually conceivably imagine the
Speaker 1: missing something. The reason that I doubt that is that
Speaker 1: that's one of the first things they'll check for in
Speaker 1: an ambulance, Like so, as we've been sitting here thinking
Speaker 1: about it, if his gunshot was still bleeding when they arrived, really,
Speaker 1: they're just going to cover the You're just going to
Speaker 1: cover the wound. And you guys well or the doctor
Speaker 1: on site or whoever you know person, and you guys
Speaker 1: are sure have heard the pack don't peak thing where
Speaker 1: if you've got uh wound that's bleeding in the field,
Speaker 1: you just keep packing, you know, as it's bleeding through something,
Speaker 1: you just keep packing and packing packing, And so that
Speaker 1: could explain why they didn't really find the bullet hole
Speaker 1: until he got to the final hospital, because at that
Speaker 1: point they're thinking, okay, it's time to pull this away
Speaker 1: and investige at the wound and see and a little
Speaker 1: and because they knew if they're going to keep transferring him,
Speaker 1: you just keep hacking pack backing. But one of the
Speaker 1: first things that they'll do is you'll check for spinal injuries,
Speaker 1: because that's one of the biggest ones. Was that, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so you have to check for today, I get it,
Speaker 1: but was in the early eighties? Was that standard practice?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Off top of your head? I believe so.
Speaker 1: Everybody for as long as I know, especially in the
Speaker 1: modern era, people have known that a spine or back
Speaker 1: injury is one of the most fatal things. So you'll
Speaker 1: check for a spine injury before you move somebody, because
Speaker 1: if you move somebody with a spine injury, you know,
Speaker 1: unless the cars on fire or something, you will make
Speaker 1: it way worse. So, oh, you know, Actually, she's right,
Speaker 1: because I remember the thing when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: somebody would be in a car accident, immediately put the
Speaker 1: big foam neck brace on, no matter what. The first
Speaker 1: rule of first age, and especially in things like falls
Speaker 1: or car rex or anything like that is not to
Speaker 1: touch them, don't move the body, don't love, don't move
Speaker 1: the but stabilized the head exactly. But okay, so I
Speaker 1: probably didn't wake up and and found himself find himself paralyzed.
Speaker 1: I mean, unlikely, but but it's entirely possible though that
Speaker 1: if we ignore the paralyzed theory. If what you're hypothesizing
Speaker 1: here is Joe is in your theory is that he
Speaker 1: realizes that he is screwed up, it isn't It is
Speaker 1: possible that Willie decided to end it all and he
Speaker 1: shoots himself in the head. And we had this conversation
Speaker 1: during the isidor Fink episode. It may not have that shot,
Speaker 1: may not have immediately incapacitated him. He may have been
Speaker 1: super drunk at that point because of impeded brain function,
Speaker 1: and it's still ambiliatory and goes, I gotta, I gotta
Speaker 1: get rid of this gun because oh, they're going to
Speaker 1: figure it out. And he could have chucked it and
Speaker 1: then wandered back to the car, are got into the car,
Speaker 1: shut the door, and then went down. I mean, we
Speaker 1: had that conversation about the guy who wandered around for
Speaker 1: an hour with a bullet in his head saying that's it.
Speaker 1: But it is, it's not inconceivable. Yeah it could have been.
Speaker 1: I mean, and the thing about head wounds and bullet
Speaker 1: wounds and the head and all that stuff is that
Speaker 1: is that it's really unpredictable. It's entirely it's not. It wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised at all if somebody got shot
Speaker 1: in head with one of short and dropped totally dead.
Speaker 1: I also wouldn't be surprised to see somebody get shot
Speaker 1: in the head with a forty five and actually live
Speaker 1: on for a while and be able to actually gonna
Speaker 1: walk around a little bit. I mean, all those things
Speaker 1: have all happened. Um, And so so is there no
Speaker 1: suicide theory that he could have shot himself while driving
Speaker 1: and that caused the accident, Well, yeah, no, that that's that.
Speaker 1: There's there was a policeman who actually said that he
Speaker 1: believed that he had shot himself while driving, and whether
Speaker 1: that was an accident or he deliberately did that, you know,
Speaker 1: And this is the thought that I that's occurred to
Speaker 1: me is that if Will had planned his suicide and
Speaker 1: wanted to make it and wanted to make it look
Speaker 1: kind of suspicious because this is this is something I
Speaker 1: sort of I don't really I never knew Willie obviously,
Speaker 1: but he struck me. Strikes me as a that's kind
Speaker 1: of theatrical person, a little bit, a little bit melodramatic,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. If you listen to speak,
Speaker 1: I can see that. Yeah, but you liked this theory
Speaker 1: a lot, and I think he uses this a lot.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to leave behind a mystery. According to you,
Speaker 1: most people probably it's not what happened, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's conceivable. It's conceivable that that that is what he
Speaker 1: wanted to do, or he just shot himself on the
Speaker 1: head and wrecked the car and he was chunk. He
Speaker 1: was like, all right, shumps off the head, you know,
Speaker 1: gun goes flying out the window as the car is
Speaker 1: spinning down the hill and it lands in water, which
Speaker 1: might explain why there are no fingerprints on it, because
Speaker 1: it's that and water for a couple of days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could have been. It could have been. He was
Speaker 1: like driving out of the road and he spotted these
Speaker 1: heads behind him that he had been following him for hours,
Speaker 1: and he assumed that that was special branch following, and
Speaker 1: so he gets out the gun. He's gonna, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put a shot across their bout, you know, something like that,
Speaker 1: and the cock said, and then he goes over a
Speaker 1: bump or something like that, and the gun goes off
Speaker 1: and Bluie. This is Leslie Nielsen movie. Okay, good point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's our next theory here, because I think this is
Speaker 1: this is a suicide thing. That's the suici So it's
Speaker 1: it's like it seems possible. I don't know. Let's go
Speaker 1: into our next theory and then we'll go back to
Speaker 1: suicide in the end here murder. But you know, somebody
Speaker 1: wanted to whack Willie. So who would have wanted to
Speaker 1: do that? I don't know. There are some potential ones
Speaker 1: out there according this. That's some of the people out
Speaker 1: there to talk about this mystery. Number one. They were
Speaker 1: there was a nuclear power industry and in the British
Speaker 1: government in general is relates to nuclear power. Also there
Speaker 1: was drug smuggling. Ull, let's let's start with let's start
Speaker 1: with the nuclear power. This is your number one Willie Whacker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why I what is behind this? Because people are gonna
Speaker 1: want to know that. People want to know people hate
Speaker 1: big nuclear, Yeah they do. They hate big nuke um
Speaker 1: and he was. You know, the thing about Willie is
Speaker 1: he was known as an anti nuclear activist and campaigner.
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he really was. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he hated nuclear power and
Speaker 1: all that stuff and nuclear weapons or he just didn't
Speaker 1: want that stuff on Scottish soil. That seemed to be
Speaker 1: his primary motivation. I think was just Scottish nationalism. So
Speaker 1: there was a Yeah, there was a big, a big
Speaker 1: move by the UK Atomic Energy Authority. They wanted to
Speaker 1: store nuclear waste in the Irishire Hills of Scotland and
Speaker 1: Willie played a key role of putting a stop to
Speaker 1: that and he became a hero at that point to
Speaker 1: the anti nuclear movement. He was expected to oppose an
Speaker 1: expansion of the Dune Ray nuclear facility that's on the
Speaker 1: north coast of Scotland. It was a big experimental thing.
Speaker 1: They had like a breeder reactor, a couple of experimental
Speaker 1: submarine reactors going there and apparently it did produce some
Speaker 1: electricity and it was they were planned and expanding the facility,
Speaker 1: adding a reactor or two, and so they were they
Speaker 1: were essentially gonna start talking about in like nineteen six.
Speaker 1: Willy was expected to oppose, though the theory goes that well,
Speaker 1: the nuclear industry wanted him out of the way so
Speaker 1: they could continue with their plans. You know, of course,
Speaker 1: as for done right that the big nuclear facility, the reactors,
Speaker 1: they were actually shut down a new commission in so
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that they actually ever did the
Speaker 1: proposed expansion. I did a little research trying to find out,
Speaker 1: and I didn't hear anything else about it, so it
Speaker 1: maybe got dropped, and then eventually they decided to for
Speaker 1: this reason or that whatever, it's bad publicity, we'll just
Speaker 1: shut the reactors down and decommission the whole thing. But
Speaker 1: the nuclear angle, I think is the biggest thing out there,
Speaker 1: and the Willy was murdered theories, there's something. There's some
Speaker 1: other theories out there, but this is the big one
Speaker 1: as far as those people are concerned. One of Willie's
Speaker 1: activist allies, this guy apparently lived up in the R
Speaker 1: delve area where his cottage was, and he was a
Speaker 1: big part of the anti nuke, especially the anti nuclear
Speaker 1: dumping movements up there, was supposed to meet with him
Speaker 1: the weekend of his death. According to this person whose
Speaker 1: name last name I never found out, he posted a
Speaker 1: long thing on this website called Electric Scotland, signed his
Speaker 1: name John but no last name, said that Willie had
Speaker 1: a bombshell in his briefcase, not literally, of course, but
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and here's a quote from him. He
Speaker 1: had incontrovertible evidence from a source within the mod that's
Speaker 1: Ministry of Defense that plans were in place to build
Speaker 1: an underwater burial casement offshore at apple Cross to store
Speaker 1: all of the United Kingdom's nuclear waste. Well, it was
Speaker 1: beside himself and was due to publicize his findings that weekend.
Speaker 1: These another Scottish political issues of these days were in
Speaker 1: his briefcase, never out of his sight. Because of a
Speaker 1: series of unselved break insto his office in Buchanan Street
Speaker 1: in Glasgow. He trusted no one but his closest politically
Speaker 1: active associates unquote. Yeah, and the briefcase, of course, was
Speaker 1: never found. But on the other hand, I don't I'm
Speaker 1: not a hundred percent sure that was in the car
Speaker 1: to begin with. It might have been, Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: I didn't even think to question this, But how is
Speaker 1: it that we know that he took his briefcase in
Speaker 1: the bottle of whiskey with him. I assumed somebody in
Speaker 1: Glasgow at his house, you know, in the car. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen that. What happened to his wife or you know,
Speaker 1: his housekeeper or somebody saw him leave, but with the
Speaker 1: briefcase of the bottle of whiskey. Um, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: but I don't know who it was. But apparently that's
Speaker 1: what That's what I hear everywhere. So this guy says that.
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, this guy is saying that somebody murdered
Speaker 1: him and he had the he had the nuclear industry, right,
Speaker 1: and so they made him dead. Yeah, he had the goods,
Speaker 1: so they killed him. Yeah. And as for this thing
Speaker 1: about Willie's bombshell, his friend Mary Johnston I said an
Speaker 1: interview on Scottish TV that he had told her a
Speaker 1: few days before his death that quote, he now got
Speaker 1: something they wouldn't be able to riggle out of. You
Speaker 1: don't think Mary Johnson could be John could john Maybe
Speaker 1: that's really that Actually that's kind of on the nose.
Speaker 1: May have just been using her last name. I like that.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, yeah, maybe, yeah, that's possible be not actual corroberation.
Speaker 1: It could be one person being one person under multiple ideas.
Speaker 1: That's possible because you know the internet. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: could be yeah, and it could be too and not
Speaker 1: to dennigrade Willie. It could be that Willie was just
Speaker 1: kind of b essing people too and saying, oh my god.
Speaker 1: It could have been a big talker that just made
Speaker 1: claims to get people all excited and love him more,
Speaker 1: which could have been why he wasn't getting elected. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: to talk no falter yea, yeah, Okay, So who's the
Speaker 1: next Willie Whacker? Our next Willie Whacker? Joe wrote it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so who's our next one? Well, this, this story is
Speaker 1: a more recent addition to the pantheon of theories out there.
Speaker 1: This is the pedophile which is apparently there was a
Speaker 1: mysterious ring of pedophiles in Westminster and then in the
Speaker 1: British government and associated with the government. Of course, we
Speaker 1: know there was some of those in the BBC, etcetera.
Speaker 1: We've heard about those more recently. According to an article
Speaker 1: in the Scottish Sunday Express, Willie had had somehow gotten
Speaker 1: evidence of a pedophile ring and there was indeed a
Speaker 1: dossier on all the pedophiles that had been associated with
Speaker 1: the government, which was lasting the possession of the Home Secretary,
Speaker 1: who was Leon Britain at the time. In the Sunday Express,
Speaker 1: claim was made in um and so that dossier apparently
Speaker 1: was assembled by another an MP named George Dickens. He
Speaker 1: actually put the whole thing together, gave it to the
Speaker 1: Home Secretary and apparently it just sort of went down
Speaker 1: the memory holes. Never I have a real problem with this.
Speaker 1: And listen, I understand that pedophiles exist and that people
Speaker 1: cover things up, and it is very terrible, and we've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of things uncovered in recent history of
Speaker 1: people doing really bad things. But the quote unquote high
Speaker 1: powered pedophile ring, if you look around, that's in the U. S. Government,
Speaker 1: that is in Hollywood, that is in the Kremlin. Like
Speaker 1: you see this claim of a high powered elite ring
Speaker 1: of pedophiles who are all working together. It's it's kind
Speaker 1: of that little I think gets put on every story
Speaker 1: to see if it fits well. Yeah, the problem I
Speaker 1: have with the whole idea of pedophile rings, especially in
Speaker 1: the pre Internet days as well, how do these guys
Speaker 1: find each other? Why would anybody you know cooperate with
Speaker 1: other pedophiles, because you know that only puts you in
Speaker 1: more danger, you know, I mean, what if you're going
Speaker 1: to be a pedophile, just prowl on your own and
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't really. It's like, this is
Speaker 1: why we never hear about the serial killer gang, because
Speaker 1: they don't work with other people, because the it's much
Speaker 1: more dangerous. Wasn't that Manson's family? No, No, they were
Speaker 1: a bunch of misguided people. That was kind of more
Speaker 1: of a cult thing. Are they not serial killers? Well
Speaker 1: in a sense, but completely different thing. It's a completely
Speaker 1: different thing. I think when you're no, I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but as yeah, no, As I
Speaker 1: was saying, this original doscy I mentioned was compiled by
Speaker 1: a member of parliament. As I said, George Dickens, Uh,
Speaker 1: Dickens himself was not murdered. He died in age sixty four.
Speaker 1: And you would think if the pedophile ring had wanted
Speaker 1: to murder anybody, it would have been George Dickens and
Speaker 1: not Willie. Yeah. And also it would have been interested
Speaker 1: in him when he was younger than older. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good point too. Yeah. And also according
Speaker 1: to with you Scottish registers that I've seen out there
Speaker 1: that pedophile story was, it's just a new thing that's
Speaker 1: been tacked on. I figured, yeah, I figured if you're
Speaker 1: on reading they said, on every story as if it fits. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're on Reddit in your Scottish you
Speaker 1: know all about this story. I'm sure. Well, let's let's
Speaker 1: move on to our next possible suspects here, which is
Speaker 1: drug smugglers. Well, they had an old friend named Michael
Speaker 1: Strath Aaron who said in an interview there's a there
Speaker 1: was a special that was done on Scottish I which says,
Speaker 1: I don't know Scottish Eye is still on TV or not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he appeared on Scottish I and he said that
Speaker 1: he believed it might have been drug smugglers because apparently
Speaker 1: the West coast of Scotland is kind of a key
Speaker 1: drug root into Britain. And if you don't believe me,
Speaker 1: take a look at a map and let's see what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying, there's there,
Speaker 1: I know, that's all this powdery white stuff. Yeah, especially yeah,
Speaker 1: the cocaine seems more popular at the north end of
Speaker 1: the world. But then rather that's the equator. I don't
Speaker 1: get it, but but no, I mean there's so much
Speaker 1: coastline and it was so so many fiords and all
Speaker 1: that stuff, you know, and so I could see that. Uh,
Speaker 1: And of course that's where his vacation home was, was
Speaker 1: towards the west coast of Scotland. And apparently he'd uh
Speaker 1: been involved in it, or at least he he has
Speaker 1: some constituents. I think that we're really concerned. Apparently he
Speaker 1: sort of got into the mix about the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the story is there. And
Speaker 1: a local man named Alan McClean is local and Dorney,
Speaker 1: which is next to our Della, which is where Willie's
Speaker 1: vacation home was. He said he got the impression from
Speaker 1: talking to Willie that Willie was investigating the local drug
Speaker 1: smugglers and that he was onto something big. But of
Speaker 1: course this might get back to what we were talking
Speaker 1: about a little bit earlier. He was telling other people
Speaker 1: boasting and you know, b asking people, and Willy really
Speaker 1: seemed to have the m o of if he was
Speaker 1: investigating something, it's because he knew how to dig into
Speaker 1: documents and pull things in that regard. I don't see
Speaker 1: him sneakily walking down the street and saying hey chum, hey,
Speaker 1: well if we're being really honest though, really, the way
Speaker 1: this could have and most likely did play out is
Speaker 1: that Alan McLean was talking to Willie at one point
Speaker 1: and said, hey, you know, you're representative. I'm really concerned
Speaker 1: about this, and and Willie said, yeah, I'm looking into it,
Speaker 1: and as like, you know, is the way that politicians
Speaker 1: talk to their constituents. Sometimes it's just we'll look into that, ye,
Speaker 1: fair In fairness to Willy, let's say that, Yeah, Willy
Speaker 1: might not have been busting excepting the standard political way.
Speaker 1: Just like absolutely, I'm all over this and I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna really, we're gonna really take them down hard,
Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, we forgot about it a meeting
Speaker 1: exactly because he would scotch whiskey. He had he had
Speaker 1: to go down and meet his connection at the docks.
Speaker 1: The next next suspect, Yeah, our next suspect, the Scottish
Speaker 1: National Liberation Army or every time you do that, we
Speaker 1: lose more people every time you do that accent. Oh
Speaker 1: sorry Scotts. Yeah, the Scottish nationalist movement, at least back
Speaker 1: on the day included some militaristic elements apparently, and so
Speaker 1: there was a former member of the s nl A
Speaker 1: called Adam Busby who also appeared on TV. I think
Speaker 1: it was the same Scottish i TV episode of Mary
Speaker 1: appeared on and various other people did and Michael Strathairn
Speaker 1: he said that Willy was involved with them, and said
Speaker 1: mostly in a minor way. Basically he let them use
Speaker 1: his office and he said Willy did get involved in
Speaker 1: one bomb plot, which was what they wanted to do
Speaker 1: was plant two unarmed bombs on the approach to the
Speaker 1: Coalport Military base. Now coal Port is these storage still
Speaker 1: is today these storage and blooding facility for their in
Speaker 1: the UK's tried nuclear warheads. So those are the ones
Speaker 1: that getting loaded onto the boomers, the nuclear submarines that
Speaker 1: carry nuclear missiles. Yeah, so that's where they store. That's
Speaker 1: where they're meanting out of the missiles and presumably I
Speaker 1: don't know if the missiles are shipped from there or
Speaker 1: loaded directly under the subs from there, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: But this idea was that they were going to build
Speaker 1: two complete bombs, real explosives and everything, but just not
Speaker 1: set the timers and leave them next to the road
Speaker 1: to be discovered. Can I be frank? Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: so stupid. What's that right next to a place where
Speaker 1: you're running around nuclear warheads. I understand they're not going
Speaker 1: to set them off, but you're gonna drop two live
Speaker 1: bombs just to send a message. It's a very foolhardy
Speaker 1: plan and I don't I don't see how Willie would
Speaker 1: have expected that to forward his cause of keeping nuclear
Speaker 1: materials out of out of his country. Well, the idea was.
Speaker 1: The idea was that is that they put those things there,
Speaker 1: and whether they're discovered on their own or they have
Speaker 1: to phone it in a tell the good way, the
Speaker 1: bombs are here, go find them. The idea was that
Speaker 1: they could say, they can say, look, this was super
Speaker 1: easy for us to do. Now, how how tough would
Speaker 1: be for a terrorist to bomb your own convoy letter
Speaker 1: down with nuclear weapons and cause a huge accident, or
Speaker 1: maybe gain possession of nuclear warheads, etcetera. That was the
Speaker 1: idea behind it. It seems like much better ways to
Speaker 1: go about that. This is And I don't even know
Speaker 1: if yeah, well no, I don't doubt this guy's word
Speaker 1: that you know, but it may be that when they
Speaker 1: came up with the idea, they shoot it it over
Speaker 1: and decided not to do it. He didn't say they
Speaker 1: actually went through with it. When I listened to him,
Speaker 1: I got and I foolishly did not take the time
Speaker 1: to verify if this happened. But I just presumed that
Speaker 1: they actually went forward with this plan, and I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's my fault for for buying into it. But
Speaker 1: regardless of that, what would have been the benefit of
Speaker 1: killing Willie. Well, that's the problem is that, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as I know, he had a
Speaker 1: good relationship with these guys, unless they they had some
Speaker 1: reason to think that he was a snitch. And even then,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they would have killed him. Because
Speaker 1: these guys and the s n l A guys were
Speaker 1: somewhat more violent and militaristic than your standards Scottish Nationalist
Speaker 1: Party or Scottish National Party member was. Obviously, they didn't
Speaker 1: strike me as incredibly bloodthirsty really, and so I'm not
Speaker 1: so sure they would have killed will It, which is
Speaker 1: why I kind of doubt this whole idea, that that
Speaker 1: anybody in the s l A would have done it.
Speaker 1: But his involvement will is involvement with the s l
Speaker 1: A if if that came to some else's attention, like,
Speaker 1: for example, Special Branch. And of course there's been there's
Speaker 1: been hints that you know, from some of the people
Speaker 1: out there that maybe Special Branch hand of hand in
Speaker 1: all this. Can you tell people who don't know what
Speaker 1: special branchs watch? Special Branches? Special Branch is kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. They're the British version of FBI. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're very very clear names, we use acronyms. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it. I get every time of like why
Speaker 1: don't you just oh no, let's just give it some
Speaker 1: obtuse snap, okay, whatever. So they think Special Branch Special
Speaker 1: Branch may have done apparently their friends have really said
Speaker 1: that he was he told his friends that he was
Speaker 1: under government surveillance. Of course, again this could be really
Speaker 1: exaggerating a little bit too. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: if he was involved with these nationalist separatist types, it's
Speaker 1: not out of it's not really totally out there to
Speaker 1: say that they would have kept kind of an eye
Speaker 1: and I'm really There was an snl A member named
Speaker 1: David Dinsmore who said that he was leaving Willie's office
Speaker 1: one time and he saw a car that looked like
Speaker 1: this special branch car type of car that they liked.
Speaker 1: There were two men in it who were basically watching him.
Speaker 1: He got the licensed number, and after that, not long after,
Speaker 1: he saw another special branch looking car, got that license number,
Speaker 1: and then he when he went on Scottish Eye and
Speaker 1: that show I talked about, gave the numbers to them.
Speaker 1: They traced the numbers and found that they were indeed
Speaker 1: special branch cars. So it looks like maybe they were
Speaker 1: keeping either Willie or maybe just David Dinsmore. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure who they were keeping an eye on. It sounds
Speaker 1: like these guys are like not either you know, not
Speaker 1: very good at their jobs, or they just weren't even
Speaker 1: trying to be subtle. Sometimes that's much more effective than
Speaker 1: hiding and saying maybe then look, no, no, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna walk up to your office and stand outside the doors.
Speaker 1: It's gonna let you know that you that we've got
Speaker 1: our eye on you, dude, you know, because yeah and
Speaker 1: so and also Willie told Dinsmore that he'd been followed
Speaker 1: by a car to his cottage and our delve one
Speaker 1: when he was driving up one weekend, he he cooked
Speaker 1: down the license number and gave it to Dinsmore, and
Speaker 1: Dinsmore he gave it to Scottish Eye. They traced that
Speaker 1: one that too, was a former Special Branch car. But
Speaker 1: again that's even more so I'd say they weren't trying
Speaker 1: to be subtle or sneaky at all. If you're trying
Speaker 1: to sneakily follow him all the way to Ourdell, a
Speaker 1: three four hour drive, you're gonna use several cars, not
Speaker 1: one car. They used one car, So I think they
Speaker 1: were just sending William message. Well, they may have been
Speaker 1: sending William message. Or remember Willie had a tendency to
Speaker 1: drink too much, and as we all know, when you
Speaker 1: get booze in your memory gets a little crappy, and
Speaker 1: they may have said, hey, Willie, we're gonna as sign
Speaker 1: a detail to you for the weekend. So that Willie
Speaker 1: is driving, drinking his body his customary bottle of whiskey
Speaker 1: on the trip up, getting more and more paranoid and
Speaker 1: why the hell is this car following me? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: When they're like, dude, we told you we were gonna
Speaker 1: follow like you said, yes, I mean, that's not outside
Speaker 1: the realm of possibility. If he was so slashed half
Speaker 1: the time that his own firm booty into him out
Speaker 1: from practice, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Yeah, maybe,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why they would call him up and say, hey,
Speaker 1: by the way, we're gonna be we're gonna be following
Speaker 1: you this weekend. Well, there was this weird bomb plot
Speaker 1: at the nuclear facility, and somebody said that they were
Speaker 1: going to get you too. I mean, I don't know, man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of ways that could have gone
Speaker 1: I suppose, But yeah, whatever the reason that, it looks
Speaker 1: like they might have had their eye on him. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to say. I mean, there were
Speaker 1: some other people who said that they were kind of
Speaker 1: involved in the following of Willie, But it's hard to
Speaker 1: say that that proves much about you know, anybody wanted
Speaker 1: to murder Willie. Well, so here's one thing we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about with this there yet. We talked a lot
Speaker 1: about who, but we haven't talked about like how how
Speaker 1: they killed him? Yeah, like how would the murder have
Speaker 1: gone down? Well, talking a lot about murder, but that's
Speaker 1: the tricky part is you got to figure out a
Speaker 1: way to run him off the road, I guess, and
Speaker 1: then you gotta get his gun away from him and
Speaker 1: shoot him in the head with it. Yeah, So this
Speaker 1: is the tricky part. This is one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that one of the things if you think that he
Speaker 1: was murdered, the thing that really bugs me the most
Speaker 1: is the bottle of the booze was not in the car.
Speaker 1: The bottle of booze should have been in the car
Speaker 1: because it was a really nice bottle. In the murderer,
Speaker 1: That's true. That's when you're that's when you run the
Speaker 1: liquor store and you got some crap and you bring
Speaker 1: it back in the car, you know. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if I was going to murder somebody in a car
Speaker 1: rex gonna scenario, I would I would want and assuming
Speaker 1: the guy was already a drinker and everything right like that,
Speaker 1: I'd want to have to have empty bottle of whiskey
Speaker 1: or even an empty bottle of whiskey right there in
Speaker 1: the car with him, wouldn't you. It would very quickly
Speaker 1: lead suspicion to that being the culprit. You're absolutely, absolutely
Speaker 1: and about. But the bottle wasn't found in the car,
Speaker 1: and I assumed they searched all around. So the murder
Speaker 1: theory really is missing a trigger man, it's yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean where Yeah, so somebody could have shot him at
Speaker 1: again though, where's the bottle? I mean, well, of course,
Speaker 1: and I suppose if if Willie had done like we
Speaker 1: were talking about and flung the bottle out the window
Speaker 1: and on the ride, and the killer didn't think to
Speaker 1: bring a bottle, and maybe that would explain it. I
Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, I don't. I just think, you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's no it's important to talk about some but yeah,
Speaker 1: like how that would have even happened logistically, it's hard
Speaker 1: because like it's not there's no good logistics there either, Yeah,
Speaker 1: doctor Dr Messers said, you know, and obviously the whole
Speaker 1: thing if you run him off the road again, I
Speaker 1: don't it doesn't look to me like a really solid
Speaker 1: forensic job was done in the car anything I didn't
Speaker 1: looking at. If you run somebody out the road, generally speaking,
Speaker 1: you probably gonna least some things in the side of
Speaker 1: their car. Well though if his car really did roll, yeah,
Speaker 1: that might have covered up some damn. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: got lucky then right, but yeah, and then and then
Speaker 1: you got to like, you know, stop, walk down there,
Speaker 1: you know, and take the gun away from and shoot him.
Speaker 1: And Dr Messer by the way I said, I did
Speaker 1: say that she saw no other wounds or marks on
Speaker 1: his body other than the wound on the right side
Speaker 1: of his head from and his car was sixty ft
Speaker 1: off the road. That's actually a pretty big distance for
Speaker 1: a car to roll and then roll to a stop
Speaker 1: off of the road. It would have to be at
Speaker 1: some pretty high speeds to to make that distance. I
Speaker 1: mean it well, yeah, but if you look at the
Speaker 1: train like it would be very easy for it to
Speaker 1: hit some kind of obstacle and lose almost all of
Speaker 1: its momentum and come to us stop very quickly. And
Speaker 1: his car was damaged enough that it looks like it
Speaker 1: had because I guess, you know, nobody witnessed it, so
Speaker 1: we don't really know it actually, you know, actually, if
Speaker 1: it did roll, I think and I've seen I've seen
Speaker 1: I've seen a photo that out of the wreck. I've
Speaker 1: seen that same and I gotta say that the Bolbo
Speaker 1: held up very well. I think the Bolbo, the car company,
Speaker 1: should get a copy of that picture and use it
Speaker 1: in their next half. For many, many decades has been
Speaker 1: all about our cars are solid and safe. Yeah when there,
Speaker 1: I mean, Detroit for years was making ticking time bombs
Speaker 1: that would just rip you apart and light you on fire.
Speaker 1: And Volvo was like, yeah, no, where our thing is,
Speaker 1: you're you'll be safe. You won't die with us. Yeah
Speaker 1: and so and so I'm not surprised at the card.
Speaker 1: While the exterior was beat up, it looked a little bent.
Speaker 1: Well that's why I was. Yeah, like the hood was bad.
Speaker 1: It looked like the frame was bent a little bit.
Speaker 1: A lot of other cars. You see it there after
Speaker 1: they rolled. The roof itself looks a little cock eyed,
Speaker 1: like it's been pushed, you know, like pushed the one
Speaker 1: side of the end of bobo. They were it was
Speaker 1: all straight. That's what maybe I wonder. I had to
Speaker 1: go back and check to make sure it actually had
Speaker 1: roll old because I really wasn't sure. Okay, so it
Speaker 1: did roll. But it seems like the logistics of a
Speaker 1: murderer just really tough. Yeah, it would be, it would
Speaker 1: be very tough to do that. I think there's just
Speaker 1: as far as the murder thing goes, it's like like
Speaker 1: Devin was just saying, the logistics seem kind of difficult,
Speaker 1: um and the practically the motive is not really there
Speaker 1: the nuclear power industry, as far as I'm concerned, I
Speaker 1: don't think so Willie is a huge threat. I mean,
Speaker 1: Willy wasn't a huge threat. They were if they really
Speaker 1: wanted to get what they wanted doing, you know, they
Speaker 1: were gotten it with And I was gonna say, I mean,
Speaker 1: even if he was a huge threat, it's easier to
Speaker 1: just be like, listen, he's an alcoholic, like he's not
Speaker 1: credit him, instead of murder him like it. Actually, it
Speaker 1: actually would have been better from their point of view,
Speaker 1: to get him wasted and arranged for him to run
Speaker 1: off the road as he did, and and just totally
Speaker 1: and this is a third driving offense, drunk and just
Speaker 1: arranged for the police to show up and arrest him. Now,
Speaker 1: that would have been totally discredited. That would have been
Speaker 1: a lot better. If you've got to plan this whole
Speaker 1: thing out, do that, that would make more sense. But
Speaker 1: again that then then there's the all the people that
Speaker 1: are involved in at that, none of which talked which
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. These giant conspiracies require many
Speaker 1: people to coordinate, and yet none of them uttered a word.
Speaker 1: Yeah there's that too, and so that, you know, that
Speaker 1: really makes me think that this really was truly a suicide,
Speaker 1: because again, I just I just can't quite see the
Speaker 1: murder as happening. Nobody I don't think had that great
Speaker 1: of a motive to kill the guy. And even though
Speaker 1: I don't know to strike me as a suicidal guy either,
Speaker 1: I didn't know him that well. I will look, I
Speaker 1: have to. I'm not fully committed to suicide theory, but
Speaker 1: there are things that I can see, like the not
Speaker 1: being Amelia incapacitated by the gunshot, wound in in an
Speaker 1: altered state, disposing of the weapon because you know, you're
Speaker 1: kind of in then half dreamland, but just fell out
Speaker 1: of his hand into the burn you know, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean maybe he maybe he didn't chuck it. Maybe he
Speaker 1: was sixty ft away from the car whatever it was
Speaker 1: when he shot himself and they put the car back,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, he was back to the car and
Speaker 1: kind of is it a fugue something, you know, some
Speaker 1: altered state, but or they put the car back in
Speaker 1: the wrong place, and it actually did fall straight from
Speaker 1: his hand out the driver's side window right into the
Speaker 1: burn and David Couse just did just I know, but
Speaker 1: I just I have I am not so prideful that
Speaker 1: if I completely screwed the pooch, I would want to
Speaker 1: end it all to get out of the embarrassment. So
Speaker 1: I have a difficulty with the theory of Willie got
Speaker 1: his third drunk driving and was like, Nope, not do
Speaker 1: when I'm out y'all. All yeah, well, obviously they would
Speaker 1: have to have been other reasons. That could have been
Speaker 1: the straw that broke the camel's back. Like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, if really, if really really wanted to go
Speaker 1: on living, but he's facing a lot of trouble over this,
Speaker 1: you can go hide in the bushes too. I mean,
Speaker 1: look at Ted Kennedy and he he'said a sterling example.
Speaker 1: You know, just follow that example. Yeah, is that where
Speaker 1: you're getting the hide in the bushes theory from? Now?
Speaker 1: I got that from my own past. No, just kidding,
Speaker 1: But all right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go with suicide.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, you guys have any thoughts here? I
Speaker 1: think yeah, I think all right, So okay, Scotland, I
Speaker 1: think you can put this one to bed okay, all right,
Speaker 1: and and speaking of and speaking of Scottish people, if
Speaker 1: you all would like to send us a congratulatory email
Speaker 1: for you yeah, or get really angry with this or
Speaker 1: argue with us whatever, sent us an email. That's a
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcas asked at gmail dot com. We also
Speaker 1: have a website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com where you'll
Speaker 1: find our episodes, uh, with also an episode list over
Speaker 1: on the right. We have merch out there. We've also
Speaker 1: got links to our Instagram and our Facebook and what
Speaker 1: our Twitter account to Twitter and read it. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: read it, that's right. Yeah, we got Reddit. Uh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We are totally social social media, as we have were
Speaker 1: on Facebook of course, where we have a page and
Speaker 1: we have a group, so like a page joined the group,
Speaker 1: you gotta answer to questions. They're easy. Uh, it's just
Speaker 1: to prove that you're not a robot. Uh. Streaming, we're
Speaker 1: all over the place, but the most funnest place to
Speaker 1: find us, of course, is on Stitcher Premium, where if
Speaker 1: you go to stitcher dot com slash Thinking Sideways used
Speaker 1: code sideways, you can listen to us four days at
Speaker 1: a time with no commercial content. And also you get
Speaker 1: bonus content, and if you sign up what that code sideways,
Speaker 1: you get a a month as well, so definitely consider
Speaker 1: Stitcher Premium. All the cool kids are doing it where else.
Speaker 1: Of course, we were on Twitter where we are thinking sideways,
Speaker 1: are Subreddit thinking sideways? Our email merchandise. I think that's
Speaker 1: about it, all right, So that's it for this week,
Speaker 1: you guys. Any last thoughts? First round? For me, I
Speaker 1: have no idea what that mental trying to make a
Speaker 1: joke about the gun, but it didn't work. Puns are
Speaker 1: really horrid. Okay, I got it round. She's given me
Speaker 1: were talking, she's got married, and now she's perfected that
Speaker 1: that angry look. Yes, I'm familiar with it, which is
Speaker 1: why it scares the crap out of It's amazing the metamorphosis.
Speaker 1: All right, you guys next week, then bye bye, guys,