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Speaker 1: Imagine serving twenty years in prison knowing you didn't do

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Speaker 1: comes the new docuseries Wrong Man on Stars. The series

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Speaker 1: follows the stories of three inmates claiming innocence and a

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Speaker 1: the truth. Watch Wrongman, premiering June three at nine pm

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Speaker 1: only on Stars. Get the Stars up and start your

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Speaker 1: free trial today. Well, hi there, welcome to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. I am your host Joe, joined as

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Speaker 1: always by and Steve and Yes, and this week we

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Speaker 1: have a horse co host. Yeah, Devn Devon's Devon's had

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Speaker 1: a little problem with your voice, but bear with us.

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Speaker 1: It still sounds good. You're I can understand you, So

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Speaker 1: I think we'll be all right. My cousin told my

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Speaker 1: new husband that this is actually my real voice that

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Speaker 1: I've been hiding from him for the last four years.

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Speaker 1: I love this theory. Well, you know, actually there's worse news.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it could be like, oh, I never told

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Speaker 1: you actually have a really hypits voice. It's really annoying.

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Speaker 1: It's actually pretty annoying. So yeah, okay, let's get back

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Speaker 1: to back to that. But too bad about the voice.

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Speaker 1: But next week it'll be better, I'm sure. Uh. So,

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Speaker 1: we got a mystery to talk about this week, so

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Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Eh. Yes, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about the mysterious death of William McCray. That's William McCray,

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Speaker 1: properly known as Willia McCray, Scottish lawyer and politician, who

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Speaker 1: died in a strange auto accident in Because this is

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Speaker 1: strange because when the smoke it cleared from the accident, uh,

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Speaker 1: which wouldn't have been failed to him, and also turned

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Speaker 1: out he had been shot in the head, which is

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Speaker 1: not normally what happens when you wreck a car. No,

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Speaker 1: not tally Yeah, game, it's kind of a surprise. Before

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Speaker 1: we go any further, though, I want to give a

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Speaker 1: shout out to our listener Michael, who suggested this story

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Speaker 1: way back in So Hey, Michael, assume you're Scottish, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell all your Scottish friends and an honor of our

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Speaker 1: all of our Scottish listeners, I'm going to do the

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Speaker 1: rest of this episode in Scottish brogue. Well that's going

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Speaker 1: to destroy our ratings. Okay, okay, never mind, let's skip

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Speaker 1: the brogue, so let's talk about Willie. Yeah, now, I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I another another apology to our Scottish listeners.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder I hear about scotsman named Willie. There's

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Speaker 1: only one Willie. I think of groundskeeper, groundskeeper Willie. I

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Speaker 1: knew that's where you're gonna go, I know. But yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: back we haven't been doing this for five years or something,

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Speaker 1: So back to William mccraig. Willie was born in nineteen

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Speaker 1: three in Scotland. Of course, I served in World War

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Speaker 1: Two in France and then also in India. Uh, just

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Speaker 1: stant military intelligence. Eventually went back to civilian life and

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Speaker 1: became a lawyer. Went on to start his own law firm,

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Speaker 1: Levi and McCrae in Glasgow, Scotland. Uh well. They also

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Speaker 1: joined the Scottish National Party. He was indeed an intense

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Speaker 1: Scottish nationalist. He was big into that whole thing. He

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Speaker 1: began to rise in the ranks in the SNP and

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Speaker 1: he rose to the rank of vice chairman in the party. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He also stood for elections several times, but never actually

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Speaker 1: won office. It seemed like every time he went he

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Speaker 1: ran it was a wider and wider margin from him

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Speaker 1: being able to take the seat. If I remember the

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Speaker 1: numbers correctly, like he was. They really liked him at first,

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Speaker 1: and then he just kept running in his numbers just

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Speaker 1: kept going down, like Paul Rand. Yeah, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure you mean Rand. Paul Rand, Paul Yeah, you know what,

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Speaker 1: people knowing both ways, he doesn't matter. Uh yeah. Well.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is is I I never met the

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Speaker 1: guy or anything like that, but I've seen video of

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Speaker 1: him speaking. Actually he the guy was a good public speaker.

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Speaker 1: I mean I thought it was anyway. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: what happens is somebody's a good public speaker and so

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Speaker 1: people are really taking with them. At first, I don't

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Speaker 1: like their ideas, and then they start to actually listen

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Speaker 1: to their ideas and see how effective they are, and

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Speaker 1: maybe question is this person actually going to be effective?

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Speaker 1: Maybe they haven't been proving themselves maybe there yeah, so maybe,

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Speaker 1: you know, at first he was just one charisma, and

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Speaker 1: the next it was kind of like every single time

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Speaker 1: there they said, he lesn't less effective. This is just

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not a good idea, or maybe he just

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Speaker 1: had a really really really bad run of luck. And

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Speaker 1: every time he just had a better, more charismatic opponent.

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Speaker 1: And maybe I've got a bad run of luck there,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. But but anyway, that didn't totally hold

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Speaker 1: Willie back. He didn't get an MP position or anything else,

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Speaker 1: but he was still pretty influential I think in the

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Speaker 1: SNP and Scottish politics until the faithfully being a Friday,

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Speaker 1: April five, when William mccraig left his house in Glasgow

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Speaker 1: to drive to his cottage and art Dell, which is

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Speaker 1: about a hundred ten miles northwest of Glasgow. Hundred seventy

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Speaker 1: five kilometers and that's crow miles road miles road miles

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Speaker 1: would be nearly twice said, because there's no direct highway

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Speaker 1: that goes to our what is that in cow miles? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: cow and crow miles, cow miles. It's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: hundred eighty six thousand, I think, but yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: find our Del. It's it's just I guess I would

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Speaker 1: have called that kilometers. Oh, I like that kilometers, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So nixing that idea. Our Del is like kind of

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Speaker 1: towards the west coast of Scotland. It's not a it's

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Speaker 1: on a lock. You know actually, which is actually kind

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Speaker 1: of a fjord and which actually connects to the sea,

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Speaker 1: so you can almost call it a sea coast sort

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Speaker 1: of town. But now we shouldn't he took Reportedly, when

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Speaker 1: he left, he took his briefcase and a bottle of

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Speaker 1: whiskey with him, and it was what it was in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon, right, it was okay, Yeah, So it was

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Speaker 1: Friday time to go away for the weekend. He headed

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Speaker 1: off in his maroon Volvo four and sometime that night,

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Speaker 1: probably around ten pm. It's hard it's not absolutely for sure,

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Speaker 1: but he was driving north on the eighties seven road

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Speaker 1: about twenty four curl miles from his destination Koslos, exactly. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And if Carl left the road for some reason, nobody

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Speaker 1: knows exactly sure why. But it looks like it rolled

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Speaker 1: a few times, because I've seen I've seen a few

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Speaker 1: photos of the car. It looks pretty beat up. It's

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Speaker 1: banged up. Yeah. Uh. It wound up about ninety ft

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Speaker 1: from the road, pointed uphill. This is so it went

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Speaker 1: off down a sort of down out, gently sloping hill

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Speaker 1: and was pointed uphill towards the road where it came

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Speaker 1: to rest. It was straddling a burn, which is Scottish

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Speaker 1: for a very small stream. Uh. And this one was

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Speaker 1: really small, like kind of a regular really And if

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Speaker 1: you want to see the crash site the court as are,

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Speaker 1: write this down if anybody cares. Fifty seven point one

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Speaker 1: one six three one four by minus four point nine

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Speaker 1: two zero eight one. That's on the eighties seven Highway,

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Speaker 1: about two and a half miles south of the intersection

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Speaker 1: with seven Road. Wow, that string of numbers is going

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Speaker 1: to be easy to remember, everybody who listens in the car.

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Speaker 1: I know exactly how many car wreckts are we gonna cause, yeah, no, careful,

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Speaker 1: you can always go back and look this up again,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I actually also warn you. This is

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Speaker 1: where there's a monument to Willie. There's a kind of

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Speaker 1: a cairn that is to some of his fans built

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Speaker 1: for him there by the side of the road. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's believed by most everybody to be the crash site.

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Speaker 1: But there's a few people who say the crash site

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Speaker 1: was actually about a mile south at there, so just

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Speaker 1: before one, because there's there, yeah there is, But can

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Speaker 1: I just ask real quick, Yeah, it is him being

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Speaker 1: on that road at ten PM was about when he

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Speaker 1: would have. Yeah, because the road, the trip from Glasgow

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Speaker 1: court the Google anyway, the trip from Glasgow to our

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Speaker 1: Dell is about a four hour drive via the eight

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Speaker 1: seven road and everything. And so if he left the

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Speaker 1: six thirty and he was most of the way there,

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Speaker 1: then he should have gotten there no earlier than say

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Speaker 1: nine thirty, and no later than ten. That of course.

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Speaker 1: That that's you know, depending on It was like three

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Speaker 1: quarters of the way there though, wasn't he Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was forty miles away and it was only a couple

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Speaker 1: of drinks. Yeah, No, it was a hundred hundred crow

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Speaker 1: miles road miles road miles, more like a couple of

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Speaker 1: hundred yeah, So but yeah, I mean so he probably

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Speaker 1: stopped for dinner and pea breaks, gasoline, that kind of thing. Uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe he had to take petrol, okay, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe he had to take d tours to try to

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Speaker 1: shake off the special branch tails that were following him.

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Speaker 1: Getting ahead of yourself a little bit. But anyway, it was,

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Speaker 1: it was probably no earlier than nine ten, maybe a

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Speaker 1: little later than that. I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like odd that he was out at that time,

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Speaker 1: Not really no, no, it was yeah. And the next

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Speaker 1: morning a couple of tourists were driving by and they

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Speaker 1: spotted the car. So that was the first discovery. That

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Speaker 1: was the first people who at least reported it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they spotted the car and they stopped the husband. They

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Speaker 1: were Their names were Alan Barbara Crowe. They were from Australia.

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Speaker 1: And this is ten o'clock in the morning. I go

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Speaker 1: right around Daniel. So Alan Crowe walked down to the car,

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Speaker 1: saw that there was a person in it, and he

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Speaker 1: opened the door and then took Willie's pulse, found that

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Speaker 1: he did have a pulse kind of weak, but he

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Speaker 1: was otherwise non responsive. And but then, as it happens,

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Speaker 1: to another car drove by, So they flagged down this

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Speaker 1: other car, which luckily enough was driven by a person

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Speaker 1: named Dorothy Messer, who happened to be a doctor. And

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Speaker 1: here's another amazing coincidence. There was also a passenger in

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Speaker 1: the car named David Coots, who was a member of

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Speaker 1: the s MP or the same party that will belonged to.

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Speaker 1: Actually they knew each other. Yeah, he had known Willie

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Speaker 1: for years and so when he was kind of shocked

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Speaker 1: and surprised to see Willie sitting behind the wheel of

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Speaker 1: the car that was wrecked, or maybe it wasn't. Was

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Speaker 1: this a coincidence or was he a hit man? You're

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Speaker 1: way ahead. Yeah, we could just start right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll save the accusations for I don't think we should.

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Speaker 1: There's more story to tell, Yeah there is. Yeah. Actually

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Speaker 1: I saw this guy on TV in an interview. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't come off like a mob thug or a hitman

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Speaker 1: at all. Also, it was, you know, twelve hours later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was that too. Yeah, the interview was much later

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Speaker 1: than that. Yeah, years after. So they got down to

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Speaker 1: the car. That's when he David Coupe recognized as Willie.

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Speaker 1: Willie was in the driver's seat, unconscious. He was not

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Speaker 1: wearing a seatbelt. Uh, and Dr Messer looked him over

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Speaker 1: and guestimated he'd been sitting there for maybe around ten hours.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's hard to I don't know how

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Speaker 1: she did that. Maybe blood plotting, because he had like

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Speaker 1: a head injury. There was all over I mean it's

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Speaker 1: pooled down his shirt. Yeah, and so I guess that's

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Speaker 1: how she guestimated this. So he's taken to a hospital

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Speaker 1: in Inverness. From there he was transferred to another hospital,

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Speaker 1: which was the Aberdeen Royal infirm Ring, And they're at

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Speaker 1: Aberdeen right around four in the afternoon they discovered finally

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Speaker 1: that he had a bullet hole in his head, just

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Speaker 1: over his right air. How long does it take to

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Speaker 1: wipe the blood off of somebody's head, for God's sake,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not I don't really quite get why

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Speaker 1: it took so long to figure that out. But you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: I think you know you're doing triage for other stuff, right.

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Speaker 1: Somebody says, well, he has a pulse. You assumed there.

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Speaker 1: You know, if if there was a doctor on the

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Speaker 1: scene as well, you assumed maybe she would have been

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Speaker 1: noticing things. If he has a pulse, clearly he's not

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Speaker 1: brain dead. Well, I would presume that he was brought

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Speaker 1: in in an ambulance, so I would assume that they

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Speaker 1: would have given him once over and said clean it

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Speaker 1: and bandage. Yet would be my presumption, right, But life

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Speaker 1: saving care is different than finding a bullet hole behind

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Speaker 1: somebody's ear. Listen, I watched e er for years and

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Speaker 1: that's not the way it happens. Well, you know that

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Speaker 1: I know a little more than Yeah, I got one

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Speaker 1: word to say to you guys stat Yeah, clear that Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to you know it might but yeah it should

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Speaker 1: have should they should have found it faster. But also

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Speaker 1: well I would have thought that crazy to me, I guess,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The guy comes in with a head injury,

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Speaker 1: and I would think the first thing you would do

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Speaker 1: would be like, actually has had to see if he's

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Speaker 1: got any you know, massive like brain swelling. I'm afraid

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Speaker 1: you were right back to exactly what I guess. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, whatever, it's water runder the bridge, right,

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Speaker 1: but the water runder the car, I guess in this case. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know when they found a bullet hole, they actually

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Speaker 1: just had there was a bullet in his brain. So

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Speaker 1: while that changes things, it turns out it wasn't an

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Speaker 1: auto accident after all, but the local police apparently didn't

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Speaker 1: get the memo on that. So his car was towed

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Speaker 1: from the scene at noon the next day. And so

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Speaker 1: I've been Sunday Sunday. Yeah, I believe it was about

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Speaker 1: noon on Sunday to seventh. By the way, can I

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Speaker 1: can I point something out because people will see this

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Speaker 1: when they're reading this on the internet, and it was

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Speaker 1: confusing to me at first, until I figured out what

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Speaker 1: the problem with the reporting was. Is sometimes you will

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Speaker 1: see it reported as he left on Friday and he

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Speaker 1: wasn't found until Sunday. And it took me forever to

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Speaker 1: figure out that what happened is people were mixing up

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Speaker 1: the date that the car was hauled away as the

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Speaker 1: date that Willie was found. In other words, not twelve

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Speaker 1: hours of him being gone, but thirty six hours. And

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Speaker 1: I was like this, It really took me a long

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Speaker 1: time to feel because I kept reading the different articles

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't understand. And then that's the only way

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Speaker 1: I've determined that the screw happened. Yeah, no, I I

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Speaker 1: don't think the road is that remote. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it was quite that remote that nobody would have seen

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Speaker 1: him for that long time. So anyway, so they go

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Speaker 1: back to there at the car they're hauling. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: car has been hauled away, so they didn't see it

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Speaker 1: as a potential crime scene. At first, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a car accident. This guy had just gone off

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Speaker 1: the road, right, we had not the first time that's happened.

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Speaker 1: And as for the car itself, that was of course

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Speaker 1: in the police's possession. There were three things that were

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Speaker 1: not in it. The gun that shot Willie, his briefcase

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Speaker 1: which supposedly had with him, and also that bottle of

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Speaker 1: whiskey they supposedly took with him. Those things were not

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Speaker 1: in the car, and they had been found on the

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Speaker 1: ground and around the car either. So this is this

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Speaker 1: is one of the things that I found really odd

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Speaker 1: about this story that the police, the local police, after

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Speaker 1: they found out that it was a crime scene, at

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Speaker 1: least potentially, they took the car back to where that

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Speaker 1: the wreck was and put it back in the same

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Speaker 1: spot where they found it so they could take pictures

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Speaker 1: of it. Well, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: They should have already taken pictures of it, anyway, I

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Speaker 1: would have thought. Apparently they didn't. So they put the

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Speaker 1: car back and they searched the area, and this time

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Speaker 1: they found the gun. It was about sixty ft from

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Speaker 1: the car, and it was in the burn, which you

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Speaker 1: remember as a stream, so they and it was kind

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Speaker 1: of below a little little tiny waterfall in the burn,

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Speaker 1: which is maybe why nobody spotted it at first, And

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Speaker 1: it was a forty five caliber Smith and Western revolver

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Speaker 1: which had been fired twice, you know, as in there

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Speaker 1: were just two bullets missing or cartridge case things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which means that, yeah, it had it have been. All

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Speaker 1: that means is it Obviously it was fired once because

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Speaker 1: he had a bullet in his head, but the other

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Speaker 1: one that was the actual gun. But yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: true to that too. But but I just you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it seems like people say I'd been fired twice.

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Speaker 1: But like we've talked about this before, you don't get

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Speaker 1: your you don't know that, and I don't get your

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Speaker 1: gun all the way full. Yeah, well it had it

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Speaker 1: had empty it had entry empty brass in it shoot

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Speaker 1: empty brass. Yeah, and so he forgot it. Yeah. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: I think Joe's idea is right though, is that he

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Speaker 1: may have shot it once at some point and left

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Speaker 1: that empty shot that if you round in there, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because you don't always just open it up

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Speaker 1: and replace him. It's not like the Deo game, where

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Speaker 1: as soon as you can you reload. Yeah, well you

305
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,040
Speaker 1: think it would. But think about it, is is this

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Speaker 1: this gun and by the way, imagined it was a

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Speaker 1: forty five caliber Smith and Weston turns. That's what's on

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00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: Wikipedia and in some other places too. It turns out

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Speaker 1: that's not what it was. It seems like it would

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Speaker 1: have been a pretty noticeable bullet hole. You would think

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Speaker 1: that somebody would have noticed that big old bullet hole. Lot.

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Speaker 1: That would have done a hell of a lot of damage,

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Speaker 1: like missing skull damage. Yeah, like like you know, the

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Speaker 1: other side of the skull blasted away the Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: bullet would probably not be rattling around in his skull. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably gone out to the other side. Yeah. The one

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Speaker 1: that they found was actually a very old Smith and

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Speaker 1: Weston It's called the first issue or excuse me, the

319
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,120
Speaker 1: first model revolver and the d It was called that

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Speaker 1: because it was the very first gun that Smith and

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Speaker 1: Wesson ever made. It was made around the time of

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Speaker 1: the American Civil War, so it's old, very old antique gun. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it was a single action revolver, seven shots chambered

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Speaker 1: in twenty two short, which is about the most anemic

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Speaker 1: round you can think of. Tiny, little, very anemic, little

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Speaker 1: small round. Sorry you said it. On a lot of

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Speaker 1: sources it says it's forty five, but you know it's

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Speaker 1: something else. How do you know that? Well, well, number

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Speaker 1: one there was there was actually what I thought was

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Speaker 1: a fairly comprehensive article in one of the Scottish papers

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Speaker 1: about it, and they actually had a picture of the

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Speaker 1: revolver and so and so. And I'm not an expert

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Speaker 1: on smith and lesson antique revolvers by any means, but

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Speaker 1: I did a little googling on, you know, antiques. I

335
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Speaker 1: found a website where all these things were up for

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Speaker 1: auction and there were quite a few of those old

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Speaker 1: first model ones out there, and I compared the photos

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00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: very carefully, and you know, they looked absolutely identical. They were,

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Speaker 1: and I did a little research. It was indeed, the

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00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 1: first model was a seven shot revolver, just like this

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Speaker 1: this thing, and the story was and then beyond that story,

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Speaker 1: the official inquiry was also was also quoted in a

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00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: few places too, was conduct two. They didn't see what

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00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,119
Speaker 1: the model was, but well, but they call it a

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Speaker 1: They don't call it a twenty two. They call it

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Speaker 1: a point to toot to. Yeah, I was gonna say,

347
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Speaker 1: are also aren't there different namings for the size of

348
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Speaker 1: calibers and different countries that inaccurate Some of them can be.

349
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Speaker 1: Depends Yeah, it depends on them. But I think because

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Speaker 1: of the age of this gun, it was just it

351
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: was a pretty well established it's just that we call

352
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Speaker 1: it a twenty two. They call it a point to too.

353
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Speaker 1: But if you buy a box of twenty two caliber here,

354
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: it's got the the decimal point is there? Yeah, yeah, okay, yesterday,

355
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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to clarify. Yeah, and you do,

356
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Speaker 1: and we do indeed know that it was actually much smaller.

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00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't much smaller around yeah and uh, and this

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Speaker 1: is why this would explain I think the the the

359
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: empty cartridge case thing that was in there, because this

360
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 1: was a lot of the really old single actions. What

361
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,959
Speaker 1: they didn't have a safety notch or anything in the hammer,

362
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 1: and so when the gun was fully loaded, your hammer

363
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 1: was resting on the primer of a of a hot round.

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00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: And so if you drop the gun or something just

365
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: fell on you on your gonna whack the hammer, it

366
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Speaker 1: could go off and maybe shoot you in the leg.

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00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: It was maybe a safety precaution that you'd have one

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Speaker 1: just empty shell case. You'd either leave it. You would

369
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Speaker 1: either leave that whole thing empty, or he'd put a

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00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: piece of brass casing in there. Uh. And so that's

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00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 1: probably what it did, is you just put an empty

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Speaker 1: shell casing in there to put his hammer down. That's

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Speaker 1: what I think, But I'm not totally sure when Pierre supposition,

374
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Speaker 1: but I would not. I would not personally hear that

375
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Speaker 1: gun with the hammer down on a live round myself.

376
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 1: So that was apparently I don't know where he got

377
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: that from. It might have just been in the family

378
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 1: for years, who knows, but he he apparently Pardoner friends

379
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: had had that gun for a long time, and some

380
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 1: people said he had started carrying it for personal protection

381
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 1: and it was his gun. Apparently was his gun. Yeah,

382
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: but it wasn't registered. I mean, that's the thing about

383
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 1: Europe is, like, you know, it's supposedly a gun free area,

384
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: but it just seems like a lot of people have

385
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 1: these old guns just lying around. Yeah, you know what

386
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm trying to remember when the big push

387
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: to get guns out of the British aisles were and

388
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: I believe it was after this, but well I believe

389
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: it was after this, but but it was right around

390
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: the same time. Like I mean, it didn't the entire

391
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: country did not go gunless right away. It took quite

392
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: a few years for that to take effect. Yeah, No,

393
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean the big push to really get

394
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 1: rid of every single gun took place after this. That

395
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 1: was after the big dumb Blaine master, right, So it's

396
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,239
Speaker 1: not it's not crazy that he had a gun. Oh no,

397
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: not like if it was today and what was the

398
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: last prime minister is David Blaine? Was that his name? Cameron?

399
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, David Cameron. I am good with names today.

400
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: The dumb magician guy. See the same thing to me

401
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: any politics and magicians. But but it would be it's

402
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: not as crazy as suddenly saying oh he had one.

403
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: I was just I was just wanting to make sure

404
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: that it was his gun, yeah, that it wasn't somebody

405
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: else's guns. So let's see, yeah, let's see. So something

406
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 1: else they found at the scene of the accident. They

407
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: found a small pile of torn up papers. These were

408
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: found by David Coutes, remember him. That was on the

409
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: day they came across the wreck. Then that was between

410
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: the road and the car, about twenty five ft away

411
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: from the car towards the road, and he said that

412
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: it looked like Willie's wristwatch was also on this pile.

413
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a neat pile of torn up

414
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: papers with the wristwatch, which is which is a lot. Uh,

415
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: and so I don't know how exactly they got there,

416
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: if they if they fell from the car during the rack,

417
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: or if you know Willie's murderers, you know, put that

418
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: stuff there. And I really don't know if Willie was murdered.

419
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: That is of course, after that, the inquiry and to

420
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: Willie mccraige's death was kind of minimal. It was just

421
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: assumed that it was suicide because after they found the

422
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: bullet in his brain, they tried to and it was

423
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: figure out what to do. He died shortly thereafter. Honestly, yeah,

424
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: I forgot, Yeah you didn't say I'm sorry. Yeah, I

425
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: looked that. Yeah. He he was in a coma. His

426
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: life support was turned off on Sunday, April seven, and

427
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: he died. And as yeah, I mean obviously he sustained

428
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of brain damage and swelling and all the

429
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: bad things that come of that. Yeah, and that's you know,

430
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: one of those things like if you get if you

431
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: get medical attention pretty quickly after that happens, you have

432
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: a good chance. Survived Sitting there for twelve hours not helpful. Yeah,

433
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: I mean I lost a lot of blood in your

434
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,719
Speaker 1: brain needs blood to survive. It turns out. Yeah, kind

435
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: of funny the way that. Yeah, yeah, that's a good

436
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: point too. It was rule to suicide because it seems

437
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: so open and shut. But this case lives on in Scotland.

438
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: I mean even even today, they're still I mean there's

439
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: a Kickstarter campaign out there right now by h a

440
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: guy who wants to write a book about this. He's

441
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: doing a little fundraising just to raise the fund so

442
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: you can write this book about it. There have been

443
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: songs written about it, and TV specials about it, all,

444
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: tons of tons of newspaper articles, lots of conspiracizing. It's

445
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: kind of like almost like Scotland's JFK conspiracy theory, although

446
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: not not as huge as JFK obviously, but it's still

447
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: to a lot of people are kind of a big story.

448
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: A lot of suspicions out there. Uh. And in fact,

449
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: in about two years after the death, when are You

450
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: and rose to be President of the SNP, she actually

451
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: knew Willie herself. At the request of many in the party,

452
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: she launched her own investigation into Willie's death and her

453
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: conclusion was that she couldn't conclude anything. She said. The

454
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: Crown Office actually refused to share most of their files

455
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: with her. She said she was basically stone walled, and

456
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 1: in the end, she just couldn't say for sure what happened.

457
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: She didn't accuse anybody of murder, but she just said

458
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: she couldn't definitively say that Willie really did commit suicide

459
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: because she just didn't have the evidence, and the reluctance,

460
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: of course of the government to share their information whatever

461
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: they had and naturally aroused a lot of suspicions. I mean, yeah, well, yeah,

462
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: the cops. The cops defended themselves because they put the

463
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: car back and then they said, oh, yeah, we found

464
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: it this far away from the car, because we're pretty sure. Hey, Tommy,

465
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 1: is this where the cars all pretty sure it's where

466
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, that just opens up a whole

467
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: bag of worms. I was just gonna say, you know,

468
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: reluctant to share information sometimes just means that they did

469
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: not do a good job of collecting information, that they

470
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: just didn't have anything to share. Well, it might have

471
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: been well, and we'll get into this a little bit

472
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: later too, but it does appear that Willie was involved with,

473
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, the nationalist cause, and he's involved in a

474
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Yeah, he was, and so he probably

475
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: was under at least a small degree of surveillance, and

476
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: they probably had a file on him, just like you know,

477
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: three of us have FBI files on us. Probably his

478
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: files probably not nearly as large as ours, though probably not. Uh,

479
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: And so it might have been that they just didn't

480
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: want to They didn't want to open up you know,

481
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: m I five files or special branch files you know,

482
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: to the SNP. And so that might have been the

483
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: whole reason, not that there was any skill duggreen. Uh.

484
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: Another sort of suspicions when we're talking about why people

485
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: were suspicious is where the gun was found. It was

486
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: found sixty feet from the car, which is a little lot,

487
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: you've got to admit. And it didn't have any fingerprints

488
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: on it that I mentioned that, Yeah, But of course,

489
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: as I said, the police say they returned the car

490
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: to the scene, and this came out in an article.

491
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: I think, again, this is still in the news, there's

492
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: still new stuff coming out, and it turns out that

493
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: this this this article in it was pretty fairly carefully documented.

494
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: They said that the police put it back, but they

495
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: don't believe they got it back in the exact precise spot.

496
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: Where it was before the car the gun or something. No, no, no,

497
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: not a moble there and something something. They said it

498
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: was off by a mob But in this case they

499
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: brought it back to the same spot. But they were

500
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: just op by four fifty or sixty feet. Yeah, and

501
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: uh and so the gun they did not find about yeah,

502
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: nineteen and so when they actually put the they put

503
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: the car back, they took lots of photographs. Now they

504
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: was treating as the crun scenes, so they actually searched

505
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: the surrounding area pretty thoroughly too. That's when they found

506
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: the gun in the stream. Probably actually just fell out

507
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: the driver's side window into the burn and sat there

508
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: and detected. You know, it wasn't spotted because it was underwater.

509
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: Says that it couldn't have been underneath the car where

510
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: it originally set. Well, he didn't say definitively, there's absolutely

511
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: no way. He said, Wow, that just seems really unlikely.

512
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: That's kind of Morris toned. Well, he was there, he

513
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: was standing next to it, he was looking down. There

514
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: was the whole policeman lost his hat thing. I said that, yeah,

515
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: that the police was pulling his body out of the

516
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: car and his hat fell off into the burn and

517
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: it's been over and picked up the hat and gave

518
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: it back to the cop and apparently the hat fell

519
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: right about where the gun should have been, right, which

520
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: makes it kind of questionable if if it really was

521
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: in the spot they say it was. There's all kinds,

522
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 1: but it's it's moving. The car just screwed the whole

523
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: thing up. So I don't want to go too far

524
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: down there, yeah, but I'll just you know, I feel

525
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: like I need to remind people that you the crash

526
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: you described as the car flipped over a number of times, right,

527
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: so things could have actually been flown out, and they

528
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: could have been flown out. So that's true too. You

529
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: know if assuming that the gun was fired or whatever

530
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: before the car can to rest, could have gone flying

531
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: much further. That's the tricky part is like you know,

532
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 1: when it was a gun fired and it was actually

533
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: one of the policeman that was involved in this, uh

534
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: said years later that you know, it appears that he

535
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: actually shot himself while driving down the road and then

536
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: one off the road, and that would explain what happened,

537
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: because you know, they rolled and fell it out. But

538
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: that sounds like a theory that sounds like a theory.

539
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure about him shooting self while driving,

540
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: but maybe I don't know. So that's that's all the suspicions.

541
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: Have I left anything you guys can think of? No,

542
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: I think you've pretty much hit all of it all right,

543
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: So now it's time for us to get into hypotheses. Oh, theories? Okay,

544
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: nobody calls it hypotheses. Are you kidding? I know who

545
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: would do science? Yeah? This is uh the Internet? Yeah,

546
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: better than the science. Before we before we get into

547
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: all of our theories or hypotheses, let's take a quick break.

548
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,320
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566
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567
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575
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578
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: back all right. Ruh. See this this is basically there's

579
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: essentially three theories. So let's start with the first. That

580
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: it was an accident, as I as already mentioned as

581
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: old smith and western. It could have been discharged by

582
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: a blow on the hammer. So we don't know where

583
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: he was carrying it. I assume probably like maybe the

584
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: breast pocket of his coat or something like that, if

585
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: he was carrying it for personal defence, so I could

586
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: see that, Yeah, if he's yeah, sitting in the car,

587
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't want to have in his pants pocket. It's

588
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: hard to get too quickly, right, So he runs off

589
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: the road. The guns flies out of his pocket, his

590
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: jacket pocket during the accidents somehow, you know, discharges. It

591
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: does seem a little unlikely, doesn't it. Yeah, well, that

592
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: is an amazing series of events. And plus, as I

593
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: said to, it would be as said to, I have

594
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: strong reason to think that Willy would have followed what

595
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: was really standard protocol for those old guys and carried

596
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: it with a hammer down on an empty on an

597
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: empty cart, which means that it would have flown rotated

598
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: the chamberlone cock the hammer, and then that just I'm

599
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: not really buying that. So okay, we can dismiss that

600
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: kind of quickly. I think, okay, let's go to our

601
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: next one. This one is a little more possible. I think, uh, suicide. Remember,

602
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: so you know a lot of people that said the

603
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: government says suicide, A lot of people think murder. But

604
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: when you're thinking suicide, you know that little revolver has

605
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: really would have been a very unlikely assassin's tool. I

606
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: think it was. I said very like I said, very

607
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: old chamber in twenty two short which is a very

608
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: anemic little round. I mean, that's more anemic than twenty

609
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: two long rifles. Is not exactly a great suicide round,

610
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: although it we'll kill somebody. Yeah, I mean, as far

611
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: as the assertion that it's not a very good murder tool,

612
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: it's a good murder tool if you know that that

613
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: person has one. That's a good point. And people just

614
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: assume that they used it on themselves. Yeah, that that

615
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: that does make a little sense in that regard, And

616
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, you know, it'll probably will kill

617
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: them with one round, and if we don't, well we'll

618
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: do it with too, of course. Yeah, And obviously they

619
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: succeeded with one round because only one was found in

620
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: his head. But but the serious suicide, Yeah, suicide. But

621
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: but again and that's why I was taking suicide because

622
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: it was on with his own gun and you know,

623
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: and which was, by the way, not a great murder tool.

624
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: So what he did he have a history? I mean

625
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: for the suicide theory and presuming that there's a history

626
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: of depression or attempts at suicide or something like that,

627
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: do we do We haven't anything like that. I don't

628
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: know of any attempts at suicide. He did have a

629
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: history of depression and he was he was a very

630
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: heavy drinker also, so maybe he was self medicating for

631
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: the depression. And that doesn't help. Does we help things? Yeah? Uh?

632
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: He had asked some professional and personal setbacks. He got

633
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: booted in one from the law firm that he had found.

634
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: To remember, I mentioned Levia mccraig. He was actually removed.

635
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: His name stayed on the sign and everything, but essentially

636
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: he was not allowed to serve duty and the duties anymore.

637
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: And I think that mostly was because of his drinking.

638
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: But he had also started another practice. He had tried

639
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: to start to get another practice going practice I understood

640
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: was was he was trying to get it off the ground,

641
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: but it had clients. Yeah, apparently it was. It was working,

642
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: but but still, you know, it's, um, I don't know,

643
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: it's it's got to be considered kind of a blow

644
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: to at least your ego to get sort of kicked

645
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: out of your own law firm that you founded. Did

646
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: they did they just shut him out or did they

647
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: buy him out? Because sometimes places will do that when

648
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: they're like, listen, you are unfit, but we're gonna keep

649
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: your name and we're gonna pay you to go away.

650
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: It's not an uncommon practice in this case, you know,

651
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: I think I don't think he was totally removed from it.

652
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: I think that if you're if you're basically a partner,

653
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: were the founding members, then I assume we still get

654
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: a cut of everybody else's fee. So that's what I'm

655
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: getting at. But yeah, I didn't lose that completely. They

656
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: didn't totally rip him off. They said, basically, you're not

657
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 1: representing our firm anymore because whatever reason may because you're

658
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: always hungover. We don't really, we don't. We don't know

659
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: exactly the reasons why there was at this break. But

660
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: anyway back to his life. It says boozing was kind

661
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: of ruining his life. As far as I know, no

662
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: toxicology report was done in his body, so we don't

663
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: know if he actually was drunk when his car went

664
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: off the road or not. Guessing, you know, I'm guessing

665
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: he probably was at least drinking, because you know, he

666
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: was kind of a big booze hound. Not no judgment

667
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: on my part, you know me too, I mean a

668
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: lot of us are. But that's another aspect where the

669
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: whole investigation fell short in so many ways, and it

670
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: really would have been better if they did a more

671
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: thorough and maybe all these questions would have been answered

672
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: a little a little better and there wouldn't be all

673
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: the speculation so that they didn't do with toxicology. So

674
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: so what you're getting at here is that there's that

675
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: three hour drive, He's got a bottle of whiskey with him,

676
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: he drinks that bottle of whiskey over the course of

677
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: three hours and then presumably chucks it out the window,

678
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: and I'm point to dispose of the bottle, and then

679
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: that's why it's not at the accident scene. That's one possibility.

680
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: With one possibility another possibility is that if the car

681
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: went off the road and if Willie came out of it, okay,

682
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, in other words, I'm probably a little banged up.

683
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: But if he if he walks, can walk away from it,

684
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: and he's been drinking. And Willie, by the way, I

685
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: didn't mention this, had already had two arrests for drunk driving.

686
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: And so if I think they call it drink driving

687
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: in the UK, well I'm not sure what they call this.

688
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: Drink drinking, drink driving. Okay, whatever it is, I don't

689
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 1: know why it's drinking and drinking, but yeah, whatever that, Yeah,

690
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: he could have but he could have gotten to jail

691
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: for it. Being a lawyer, probably would have lost his

692
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: law license. I know here in America you will if

693
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: you get caught, if you get arrested for something like

694
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: a felony and your a lawyer or like for me

695
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: for my job, I would lose my license. Also a

696
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: lot of people will in professional jobs like that. So

697
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: what do you do. You know, you've been boozing, you've

698
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: got a half full bottle of whisk in your car.

699
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: You do the natural thing. You get out of the car,

700
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, walk a little distance away and fling the

701
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: bottle as far as you can, right, And so that

702
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: might be another reason why the bottle was not found

703
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: in the car. Yeah, But whatever the reason, the bottle

704
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: was just not in the car. And so Willie is

705
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: uh car comes to a stop and he realizes he's

706
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: in a world of hurt drawn having just wrecked his car.

707
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: He's in a bit of trouble. If the if the

708
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: police come along and see he's wrecked his car and

709
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: he's got all this booze on his breath, could this

710
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: be enough to make him want to commit suicide? Well,

711
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I did just torch the car, kidding,

712
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: just kidding, Hi, burn the evidence of kidding. Yeah, I

713
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: don't know. I I personally, if it had been me,

714
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: what I would have done. It's just like, you know,

715
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: if I had been drunk, like you know, I would

716
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: have just assuming I could walk and everything like that,

717
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: I would leave the car and go hide in the bushes. Yeah.

718
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: And that's a hero, that's what That's what a true

719
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: superhero does. Heusually it goes and hides. But anyway, yeah,

720
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: but but but you know, on the other other hand,

721
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: and this is this is really out there speculation. What

722
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: if Willie. What if Willie had rolled a couple of

723
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: times and he's not dead by any means, He's not

724
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: even unconscious, but he's he's just just sustained a spinal

725
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 1: injury and realizes, Wow, hey, I can't move my legs.

726
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: This really sucks. My life is over a bang shoot myself.

727
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: And that speculate you would think they would have caught

728
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: a spinal injury. Yeah, I think given how how on

729
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: though this investigation was, I could actually conceivably imagine the

730
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: missing something. The reason that I doubt that is that

731
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: that's one of the first things they'll check for in

732
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: an ambulance, Like so, as we've been sitting here thinking

733
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: about it, if his gunshot was still bleeding when they arrived, really,

734
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: they're just going to cover the You're just going to

735
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: cover the wound. And you guys well or the doctor

736
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: on site or whoever you know person, and you guys

737
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: are sure have heard the pack don't peak thing where

738
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: if you've got uh wound that's bleeding in the field,

739
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: you just keep packing, you know, as it's bleeding through something,

740
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: you just keep packing and packing packing, And so that

741
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: could explain why they didn't really find the bullet hole

742
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: until he got to the final hospital, because at that

743
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: point they're thinking, okay, it's time to pull this away

744
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: and investige at the wound and see and a little

745
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: and because they knew if they're going to keep transferring him,

746
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: you just keep hacking pack backing. But one of the

747
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: first things that they'll do is you'll check for spinal injuries,

748
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: because that's one of the biggest ones. Was that, well, okay,

749
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: so you have to check for today, I get it,

750
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: but was in the early eighties? Was that standard practice?

751
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: Do you know? Off top of your head? I believe so.

752
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: Everybody for as long as I know, especially in the

753
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: modern era, people have known that a spine or back

754
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: injury is one of the most fatal things. So you'll

755
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: check for a spine injury before you move somebody, because

756
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: if you move somebody with a spine injury, you know,

757
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: unless the cars on fire or something, you will make

758
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: it way worse. So, oh, you know, Actually, she's right,

759
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: because I remember the thing when I was a kid,

760
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: somebody would be in a car accident, immediately put the

761
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: big foam neck brace on, no matter what. The first

762
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: rule of first age, and especially in things like falls

763
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: or car rex or anything like that is not to

764
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: touch them, don't move the body, don't love, don't move

765
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: the but stabilized the head exactly. But okay, so I

766
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: probably didn't wake up and and found himself find himself paralyzed.

767
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: I mean, unlikely, but but it's entirely possible though that

768
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: if we ignore the paralyzed theory. If what you're hypothesizing

769
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: here is Joe is in your theory is that he

770
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: realizes that he is screwed up, it isn't It is

771
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: possible that Willie decided to end it all and he

772
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: shoots himself in the head. And we had this conversation

773
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: during the isidor Fink episode. It may not have that shot,

774
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: may not have immediately incapacitated him. He may have been

775
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: super drunk at that point because of impeded brain function,

776
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: and it's still ambiliatory and goes, I gotta, I gotta

777
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: get rid of this gun because oh, they're going to

778
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: figure it out. And he could have chucked it and

779
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: then wandered back to the car, are got into the car,

780
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: shut the door, and then went down. I mean, we

781
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: had that conversation about the guy who wandered around for

782
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: an hour with a bullet in his head saying that's it.

783
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 1: But it is, it's not inconceivable. Yeah it could have been.

784
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and the thing about head wounds and bullet

785
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: wounds and the head and all that stuff is that

786
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: is that it's really unpredictable. It's entirely it's not. It wouldn't.

787
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised at all if somebody got shot

788
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 1: in head with one of short and dropped totally dead.

789
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: I also wouldn't be surprised to see somebody get shot

790
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: in the head with a forty five and actually live

791
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: on for a while and be able to actually gonna

792
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: walk around a little bit. I mean, all those things

793
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: have all happened. Um, And so so is there no

794
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: suicide theory that he could have shot himself while driving

795
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: and that caused the accident, Well, yeah, no, that that's that.

796
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: There's there was a policeman who actually said that he

797
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: believed that he had shot himself while driving, and whether

798
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: that was an accident or he deliberately did that, you know,

799
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: And this is the thought that I that's occurred to

800
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: me is that if Will had planned his suicide and

801
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: wanted to make it and wanted to make it look

802
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: kind of suspicious because this is this is something I

803
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: sort of I don't really I never knew Willie obviously,

804
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: but he struck me. Strikes me as a that's kind

805
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: of theatrical person, a little bit, a little bit melodramatic,

806
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. If you listen to speak,

807
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 1: I can see that. Yeah, but you liked this theory

808
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: a lot, and I think he uses this a lot.

809
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to leave behind a mystery. According to you,

810
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: most people probably it's not what happened, but you know,

811
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: it's conceivable. It's conceivable that that that is what he

812
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: wanted to do, or he just shot himself on the

813
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: head and wrecked the car and he was chunk. He

814
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: was like, all right, shumps off the head, you know,

815
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: gun goes flying out the window as the car is

816
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 1: spinning down the hill and it lands in water, which

817
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,479
Speaker 1: might explain why there are no fingerprints on it, because

818
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: it's that and water for a couple of days. Yeah,

819
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: it could have been. It could have been. He was

820
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: like driving out of the road and he spotted these

821
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: heads behind him that he had been following him for hours,

822
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: and he assumed that that was special branch following, and

823
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: so he gets out the gun. He's gonna, I'm gonna

824
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: put a shot across their bout, you know, something like that,

825
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: and the cock said, and then he goes over a

826
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: bump or something like that, and the gun goes off

827
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: and Bluie. This is Leslie Nielsen movie. Okay, good point. Yeah,

828
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: it's our next theory here, because I think this is

829
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 1: this is a suicide thing. That's the suici So it's

830
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: it's like it seems possible. I don't know. Let's go

831
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: into our next theory and then we'll go back to

832
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: suicide in the end here murder. But you know, somebody

833
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: wanted to whack Willie. So who would have wanted to

834
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,479
Speaker 1: do that? I don't know. There are some potential ones

835
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: out there according this. That's some of the people out

836
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: there to talk about this mystery. Number one. They were

837
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: there was a nuclear power industry and in the British

838
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 1: government in general is relates to nuclear power. Also there

839
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: was drug smuggling. Ull, let's let's start with let's start

840
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: with the nuclear power. This is your number one Willie Whacker. Yeah,

841
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 1: why I what is behind this? Because people are gonna

842
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: want to know that. People want to know people hate

843
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: big nuclear, Yeah they do. They hate big nuke um

844
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: and he was. You know, the thing about Willie is

845
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: he was known as an anti nuclear activist and campaigner.

846
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he really was. I mean,

847
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that he hated nuclear power and

848
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: all that stuff and nuclear weapons or he just didn't

849
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: want that stuff on Scottish soil. That seemed to be

850
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: his primary motivation. I think was just Scottish nationalism. So

851
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: there was a Yeah, there was a big, a big

852
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: move by the UK Atomic Energy Authority. They wanted to

853
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: store nuclear waste in the Irishire Hills of Scotland and

854
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: Willie played a key role of putting a stop to

855
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: that and he became a hero at that point to

856
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: the anti nuclear movement. He was expected to oppose an

857
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: expansion of the Dune Ray nuclear facility that's on the

858
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: north coast of Scotland. It was a big experimental thing.

859
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: They had like a breeder reactor, a couple of experimental

860
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: submarine reactors going there and apparently it did produce some

861
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 1: electricity and it was they were planned and expanding the facility,

862
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: adding a reactor or two, and so they were they

863
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: were essentially gonna start talking about in like nineteen six.

864
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: Willy was expected to oppose, though the theory goes that well,

865
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: the nuclear industry wanted him out of the way so

866
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,479
Speaker 1: they could continue with their plans. You know, of course,

867
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: as for done right that the big nuclear facility, the reactors,

868
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: they were actually shut down a new commission in so

869
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that they actually ever did the

870
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: proposed expansion. I did a little research trying to find out,

871
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: and I didn't hear anything else about it, so it

872
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: maybe got dropped, and then eventually they decided to for

873
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: this reason or that whatever, it's bad publicity, we'll just

874
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: shut the reactors down and decommission the whole thing. But

875
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: the nuclear angle, I think is the biggest thing out there,

876
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: and the Willy was murdered theories, there's something. There's some

877
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: other theories out there, but this is the big one

878
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: as far as those people are concerned. One of Willie's

879
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: activist allies, this guy apparently lived up in the R

880
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: delve area where his cottage was, and he was a

881
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 1: big part of the anti nuke, especially the anti nuclear

882
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: dumping movements up there, was supposed to meet with him

883
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: the weekend of his death. According to this person whose

884
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: name last name I never found out, he posted a

885
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: long thing on this website called Electric Scotland, signed his

886
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: name John but no last name, said that Willie had

887
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: a bombshell in his briefcase, not literally, of course, but

888
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, uh, and here's a quote from him. He

889
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: had incontrovertible evidence from a source within the mod that's

890
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: Ministry of Defense that plans were in place to build

891
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: an underwater burial casement offshore at apple Cross to store

892
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: all of the United Kingdom's nuclear waste. Well, it was

893
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: beside himself and was due to publicize his findings that weekend.

894
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: These another Scottish political issues of these days were in

895
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: his briefcase, never out of his sight. Because of a

896
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: series of unselved break insto his office in Buchanan Street

897
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: in Glasgow. He trusted no one but his closest politically

898
00:45:54,640 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: active associates unquote. Yeah, and the briefcase, of course, was

899
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: never found. But on the other hand, I don't I'm

900
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: not a hundred percent sure that was in the car

901
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: to begin with. It might have been, Yeah, I guess

902
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: I didn't even think to question this, But how is

903
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: it that we know that he took his briefcase in

904
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: the bottle of whiskey with him. I assumed somebody in

905
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: Glasgow at his house, you know, in the car. Yeah,

906
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: I've seen that. What happened to his wife or you know,

907
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: his housekeeper or somebody saw him leave, but with the

908
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: briefcase of the bottle of whiskey. Um, but yeah, that's

909
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: but I don't know who it was. But apparently that's

910
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: what That's what I hear everywhere. So this guy says that.

911
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, this guy is saying that somebody murdered

912
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: him and he had the he had the nuclear industry, right,

913
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: and so they made him dead. Yeah, he had the goods,

914
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: so they killed him. Yeah. And as for this thing

915
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: about Willie's bombshell, his friend Mary Johnston I said an

916
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: interview on Scottish TV that he had told her a

917
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: few days before his death that quote, he now got

918
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: something they wouldn't be able to riggle out of. You

919
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: don't think Mary Johnson could be John could john Maybe

920
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: that's really that Actually that's kind of on the nose.

921
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: May have just been using her last name. I like that.

922
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm saying, yeah, maybe, yeah, that's possible be not actual corroberation.

923
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: It could be one person being one person under multiple ideas.

924
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: That's possible because you know the internet. Yeah, and it

925
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: could be yeah, and it could be too and not

926
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: to dennigrade Willie. It could be that Willie was just

927
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: kind of b essing people too and saying, oh my god.

928
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: It could have been a big talker that just made

929
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: claims to get people all excited and love him more,

930
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: which could have been why he wasn't getting elected. Yeah, yeah,

931
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: to talk no falter yea, yeah, Okay, So who's the

932
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: next Willie Whacker? Our next Willie Whacker? Joe wrote it, Yeah,

933
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: so who's our next one? Well, this, this story is

934
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: a more recent addition to the pantheon of theories out there.

935
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: This is the pedophile which is apparently there was a

936
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: mysterious ring of pedophiles in Westminster and then in the

937
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: British government and associated with the government. Of course, we

938
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: know there was some of those in the BBC, etcetera.

939
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: We've heard about those more recently. According to an article

940
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: in the Scottish Sunday Express, Willie had had somehow gotten

941
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: evidence of a pedophile ring and there was indeed a

942
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: dossier on all the pedophiles that had been associated with

943
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: the government, which was lasting the possession of the Home Secretary,

944
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: who was Leon Britain at the time. In the Sunday Express,

945
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: claim was made in um and so that dossier apparently

946
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: was assembled by another an MP named George Dickens. He

947
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: actually put the whole thing together, gave it to the

948
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: Home Secretary and apparently it just sort of went down

949
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: the memory holes. Never I have a real problem with this.

950
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: And listen, I understand that pedophiles exist and that people

951
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: cover things up, and it is very terrible, and we've

952
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: seen a lot of things uncovered in recent history of

953
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: people doing really bad things. But the quote unquote high

954
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: powered pedophile ring, if you look around, that's in the U. S. Government,

955
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: that is in Hollywood, that is in the Kremlin. Like

956
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: you see this claim of a high powered elite ring

957
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: of pedophiles who are all working together. It's it's kind

958
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: of that little I think gets put on every story

959
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: to see if it fits well. Yeah, the problem I

960
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: have with the whole idea of pedophile rings, especially in

961
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: the pre Internet days as well, how do these guys

962
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: find each other? Why would anybody you know cooperate with

963
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: other pedophiles, because you know that only puts you in

964
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: more danger, you know, I mean, what if you're going

965
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: to be a pedophile, just prowl on your own and

966
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't really. It's like, this is

967
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: why we never hear about the serial killer gang, because

968
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: they don't work with other people, because the it's much

969
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: more dangerous. Wasn't that Manson's family? No, No, they were

970
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: a bunch of misguided people. That was kind of more

971
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: of a cult thing. Are they not serial killers? Well

972
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: in a sense, but completely different thing. It's a completely

973
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: different thing. I think when you're no, I think, I think,

974
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but as yeah, no, As I

975
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: was saying, this original doscy I mentioned was compiled by

976
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: a member of parliament. As I said, George Dickens, Uh,

977
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: Dickens himself was not murdered. He died in age sixty four.

978
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: And you would think if the pedophile ring had wanted

979
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: to murder anybody, it would have been George Dickens and

980
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: not Willie. Yeah. And also it would have been interested

981
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 1: in him when he was younger than older. So yeah,

982
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: that's that's a good point too. Yeah. And also according

983
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: to with you Scottish registers that I've seen out there

984
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: that pedophile story was, it's just a new thing that's

985
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: been tacked on. I figured, yeah, I figured if you're

986
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: on reading they said, on every story as if it fits. Yeah.

987
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're on Reddit in your Scottish you

988
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: know all about this story. I'm sure. Well, let's let's

989
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: move on to our next possible suspects here, which is

990
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: drug smugglers. Well, they had an old friend named Michael

991
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: Strath Aaron who said in an interview there's a there

992
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: was a special that was done on Scottish I which says,

993
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: I don't know Scottish Eye is still on TV or not. Yeah,

994
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: so he appeared on Scottish I and he said that

995
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: he believed it might have been drug smugglers because apparently

996
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: the West coast of Scotland is kind of a key

997
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: drug root into Britain. And if you don't believe me,

998
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: take a look at a map and let's see what

999
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. You know what I'm saying, there's there,

1000
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: I know, that's all this powdery white stuff. Yeah, especially yeah,

1001
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: the cocaine seems more popular at the north end of

1002
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: the world. But then rather that's the equator. I don't

1003
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: get it, but but no, I mean there's so much

1004
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: coastline and it was so so many fiords and all

1005
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: that stuff, you know, and so I could see that. Uh,

1006
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: And of course that's where his vacation home was, was

1007
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: towards the west coast of Scotland. And apparently he'd uh

1008
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: been involved in it, or at least he he has

1009
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: some constituents. I think that we're really concerned. Apparently he

1010
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: sort of got into the mix about the whole thing.

1011
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what the story is there. And

1012
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 1: a local man named Alan McClean is local and Dorney,

1013
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: which is next to our Della, which is where Willie's

1014
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: vacation home was. He said he got the impression from

1015
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: talking to Willie that Willie was investigating the local drug

1016
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: smugglers and that he was onto something big. But of

1017
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: course this might get back to what we were talking

1018
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: about a little bit earlier. He was telling other people

1019
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: boasting and you know, b asking people, and Willy really

1020
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: seemed to have the m o of if he was

1021
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: investigating something, it's because he knew how to dig into

1022
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: documents and pull things in that regard. I don't see

1023
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: him sneakily walking down the street and saying hey chum, hey,

1024
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: well if we're being really honest though, really, the way

1025
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: this could have and most likely did play out is

1026
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: that Alan McLean was talking to Willie at one point

1027
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: and said, hey, you know, you're representative. I'm really concerned

1028
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: about this, and and Willie said, yeah, I'm looking into it,

1029
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: and as like, you know, is the way that politicians

1030
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: talk to their constituents. Sometimes it's just we'll look into that, ye,

1031
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: fair In fairness to Willy, let's say that, Yeah, Willy

1032
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: might not have been busting excepting the standard political way.

1033
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: Just like absolutely, I'm all over this and I think

1034
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna really, we're gonna really take them down hard,

1035
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, we forgot about it a meeting

1036
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 1: exactly because he would scotch whiskey. He had he had

1037
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: to go down and meet his connection at the docks.

1038
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: The next next suspect, Yeah, our next suspect, the Scottish

1039
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: National Liberation Army or every time you do that, we

1040
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 1: lose more people every time you do that accent. Oh

1041
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: sorry Scotts. Yeah, the Scottish nationalist movement, at least back

1042
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: on the day included some militaristic elements apparently, and so

1043
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: there was a former member of the s nl A

1044
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: called Adam Busby who also appeared on TV. I think

1045
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 1: it was the same Scottish i TV episode of Mary

1046
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: appeared on and various other people did and Michael Strathairn

1047
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: he said that Willy was involved with them, and said

1048
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: mostly in a minor way. Basically he let them use

1049
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: his office and he said Willy did get involved in

1050
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: one bomb plot, which was what they wanted to do

1051
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: was plant two unarmed bombs on the approach to the

1052
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: Coalport Military base. Now coal Port is these storage still

1053
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: is today these storage and blooding facility for their in

1054
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: the UK's tried nuclear warheads. So those are the ones

1055
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: that getting loaded onto the boomers, the nuclear submarines that

1056
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: carry nuclear missiles. Yeah, so that's where they store. That's

1057
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: where they're meanting out of the missiles and presumably I

1058
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: don't know if the missiles are shipped from there or

1059
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: loaded directly under the subs from there, I'm not sure.

1060
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: But this idea was that they were going to build

1061
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: two complete bombs, real explosives and everything, but just not

1062
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: set the timers and leave them next to the road

1063
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: to be discovered. Can I be frank? Yeah, this is

1064
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: so stupid. What's that right next to a place where

1065
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: you're running around nuclear warheads. I understand they're not going

1066
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: to set them off, but you're gonna drop two live

1067
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: bombs just to send a message. It's a very foolhardy

1068
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: plan and I don't I don't see how Willie would

1069
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: have expected that to forward his cause of keeping nuclear

1070
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: materials out of out of his country. Well, the idea was.

1071
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: The idea was that is that they put those things there,

1072
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: and whether they're discovered on their own or they have

1073
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: to phone it in a tell the good way, the

1074
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: bombs are here, go find them. The idea was that

1075
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: they could say, they can say, look, this was super

1076
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: easy for us to do. Now, how how tough would

1077
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: be for a terrorist to bomb your own convoy letter

1078
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: down with nuclear weapons and cause a huge accident, or

1079
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: maybe gain possession of nuclear warheads, etcetera. That was the

1080
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: idea behind it. It seems like much better ways to

1081
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: go about that. This is And I don't even know

1082
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: if yeah, well no, I don't doubt this guy's word

1083
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: that you know, but it may be that when they

1084
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: came up with the idea, they shoot it it over

1085
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: and decided not to do it. He didn't say they

1086
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: actually went through with it. When I listened to him,

1087
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 1: I got and I foolishly did not take the time

1088
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: to verify if this happened. But I just presumed that

1089
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: they actually went forward with this plan, and I mean,

1090
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: that's that's my fault for for buying into it. But

1091
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: regardless of that, what would have been the benefit of

1092
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: killing Willie. Well, that's the problem is that, you know,

1093
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as I know, he had a

1094
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: good relationship with these guys, unless they they had some

1095
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: reason to think that he was a snitch. And even then,

1096
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they would have killed him. Because

1097
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: these guys and the s n l A guys were

1098
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: somewhat more violent and militaristic than your standards Scottish Nationalist

1099
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 1: Party or Scottish National Party member was. Obviously, they didn't

1100
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: strike me as incredibly bloodthirsty really, and so I'm not

1101
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: so sure they would have killed will It, which is

1102
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: why I kind of doubt this whole idea, that that

1103
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: anybody in the s l A would have done it.

1104
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: But his involvement will is involvement with the s l

1105
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: A if if that came to some else's attention, like,

1106
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: for example, Special Branch. And of course there's been there's

1107
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: been hints that you know, from some of the people

1108
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: out there that maybe Special Branch hand of hand in

1109
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: all this. Can you tell people who don't know what

1110
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: special branchs watch? Special Branches? Special Branch is kind of like,

1111
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. They're the British version of FBI. Yes,

1112
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're very very clear names, we use acronyms. Yeah, yeah,

1113
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: I get it. I get every time of like why

1114
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: don't you just oh no, let's just give it some

1115
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: obtuse snap, okay, whatever. So they think Special Branch Special

1116
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: Branch may have done apparently their friends have really said

1117
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: that he was he told his friends that he was

1118
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: under government surveillance. Of course, again this could be really

1119
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 1: exaggerating a little bit too. But on the other hand,

1120
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: if he was involved with these nationalist separatist types, it's

1121
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: not out of it's not really totally out there to

1122
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: say that they would have kept kind of an eye

1123
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: and I'm really There was an snl A member named

1124
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: David Dinsmore who said that he was leaving Willie's office

1125
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: one time and he saw a car that looked like

1126
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: this special branch car type of car that they liked.

1127
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: There were two men in it who were basically watching him.

1128
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,439
Speaker 1: He got the licensed number, and after that, not long after,

1129
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: he saw another special branch looking car, got that license number,

1130
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: and then he when he went on Scottish Eye and

1131
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: that show I talked about, gave the numbers to them.

1132
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: They traced the numbers and found that they were indeed

1133
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: special branch cars. So it looks like maybe they were

1134
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: keeping either Willie or maybe just David Dinsmore. I'm not

1135
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: sure who they were keeping an eye on. It sounds

1136
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: like these guys are like not either you know, not

1137
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: very good at their jobs, or they just weren't even

1138
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: trying to be subtle. Sometimes that's much more effective than

1139
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: hiding and saying maybe then look, no, no, I'm just

1140
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: gonna walk up to your office and stand outside the doors.

1141
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: It's gonna let you know that you that we've got

1142
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: our eye on you, dude, you know, because yeah and

1143
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: so and also Willie told Dinsmore that he'd been followed

1144
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: by a car to his cottage and our delve one

1145
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: when he was driving up one weekend, he he cooked

1146
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: down the license number and gave it to Dinsmore, and

1147
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: Dinsmore he gave it to Scottish Eye. They traced that

1148
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: one that too, was a former Special Branch car. But

1149
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: again that's even more so I'd say they weren't trying

1150
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,439
Speaker 1: to be subtle or sneaky at all. If you're trying

1151
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: to sneakily follow him all the way to Ourdell, a

1152
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: three four hour drive, you're gonna use several cars, not

1153
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: one car. They used one car, So I think they

1154
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 1: were just sending William message. Well, they may have been

1155
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: sending William message. Or remember Willie had a tendency to

1156
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: drink too much, and as we all know, when you

1157
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: get booze in your memory gets a little crappy, and

1158
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: they may have said, hey, Willie, we're gonna as sign

1159
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: a detail to you for the weekend. So that Willie

1160
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: is driving, drinking his body his customary bottle of whiskey

1161
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: on the trip up, getting more and more paranoid and

1162
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: why the hell is this car following me? Oh my god,

1163
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: When they're like, dude, we told you we were gonna

1164
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: follow like you said, yes, I mean, that's not outside

1165
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: the realm of possibility. If he was so slashed half

1166
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: the time that his own firm booty into him out

1167
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: from practice, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Yeah, maybe,

1168
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why they would call him up and say, hey,

1169
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: by the way, we're gonna be we're gonna be following

1170
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: you this weekend. Well, there was this weird bomb plot

1171
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: at the nuclear facility, and somebody said that they were

1172
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: going to get you too. I mean, I don't know, man, Yeah,

1173
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of ways that could have gone

1174
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: I suppose, But yeah, whatever the reason that, it looks

1175
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: like they might have had their eye on him. But

1176
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to say. I mean, there were

1177
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: some other people who said that they were kind of

1178
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: involved in the following of Willie, But it's hard to

1179
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: say that that proves much about you know, anybody wanted

1180
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: to murder Willie. Well, so here's one thing we haven't

1181
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: talked about with this there yet. We talked a lot

1182
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: about who, but we haven't talked about like how how

1183
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: they killed him? Yeah, like how would the murder have

1184
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: gone down? Well, talking a lot about murder, but that's

1185
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: the tricky part is you got to figure out a

1186
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: way to run him off the road, I guess, and

1187
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: then you gotta get his gun away from him and

1188
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: shoot him in the head with it. Yeah, So this

1189
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: is the tricky part. This is one of the reasons

1190
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: that one of the things if you think that he

1191
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: was murdered, the thing that really bugs me the most

1192
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: is the bottle of the booze was not in the car.

1193
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: The bottle of booze should have been in the car

1194
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: because it was a really nice bottle. In the murderer,

1195
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: That's true. That's when you're that's when you run the

1196
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: liquor store and you got some crap and you bring

1197
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: it back in the car, you know. But yeah, I mean,

1198
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: if I was going to murder somebody in a car

1199
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: rex gonna scenario, I would I would want and assuming

1200
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: the guy was already a drinker and everything right like that,

1201
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: I'd want to have to have empty bottle of whiskey

1202
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: or even an empty bottle of whiskey right there in

1203
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: the car with him, wouldn't you. It would very quickly

1204
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: lead suspicion to that being the culprit. You're absolutely, absolutely

1205
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: and about. But the bottle wasn't found in the car,

1206
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: and I assumed they searched all around. So the murder

1207
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: theory really is missing a trigger man, it's yeah, I

1208
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: mean where Yeah, so somebody could have shot him at

1209
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: again though, where's the bottle? I mean, well, of course,

1210
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: and I suppose if if Willie had done like we

1211
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: were talking about and flung the bottle out the window

1212
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: and on the ride, and the killer didn't think to

1213
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: bring a bottle, and maybe that would explain it. I

1214
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, I don't. I just think, you know,

1215
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: there's there's no it's important to talk about some but yeah,

1216
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: like how that would have even happened logistically, it's hard

1217
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: because like it's not there's no good logistics there either, Yeah,

1218
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: doctor Dr Messers said, you know, and obviously the whole

1219
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: thing if you run him off the road again, I

1220
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: don't it doesn't look to me like a really solid

1221
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: forensic job was done in the car anything I didn't

1222
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: looking at. If you run somebody out the road, generally speaking,

1223
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: you probably gonna least some things in the side of

1224
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: their car. Well though if his car really did roll, yeah,

1225
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: that might have covered up some damn. Yeah, but you

1226
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: got lucky then right, but yeah, and then and then

1227
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: you got to like, you know, stop, walk down there,

1228
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, and take the gun away from and shoot him.

1229
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: And Dr Messer by the way I said, I did

1230
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: say that she saw no other wounds or marks on

1231
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: his body other than the wound on the right side

1232
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: of his head from and his car was sixty ft

1233
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: off the road. That's actually a pretty big distance for

1234
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: a car to roll and then roll to a stop

1235
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: off of the road. It would have to be at

1236
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: some pretty high speeds to to make that distance. I

1237
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: mean it well, yeah, but if you look at the

1238
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: train like it would be very easy for it to

1239
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: hit some kind of obstacle and lose almost all of

1240
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: its momentum and come to us stop very quickly. And

1241
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: his car was damaged enough that it looks like it

1242
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: had because I guess, you know, nobody witnessed it, so

1243
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: we don't really know it actually, you know, actually, if

1244
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: it did roll, I think and I've seen I've seen

1245
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 1: I've seen a photo that out of the wreck. I've

1246
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: seen that same and I gotta say that the Bolbo

1247
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: held up very well. I think the Bolbo, the car company,

1248
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: should get a copy of that picture and use it

1249
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: in their next half. For many, many decades has been

1250
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: all about our cars are solid and safe. Yeah when there,

1251
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Detroit for years was making ticking time bombs

1252
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: that would just rip you apart and light you on fire.

1253
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: And Volvo was like, yeah, no, where our thing is,

1254
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: you're you'll be safe. You won't die with us. Yeah

1255
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: and so and so I'm not surprised at the card.

1256
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: While the exterior was beat up, it looked a little bent.

1257
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: Well that's why I was. Yeah, like the hood was bad.

1258
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: It looked like the frame was bent a little bit.

1259
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: A lot of other cars. You see it there after

1260
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: they rolled. The roof itself looks a little cock eyed,

1261
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: like it's been pushed, you know, like pushed the one

1262
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: side of the end of bobo. They were it was

1263
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: all straight. That's what maybe I wonder. I had to

1264
01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: go back and check to make sure it actually had

1265
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: roll old because I really wasn't sure. Okay, so it

1266
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: did roll. But it seems like the logistics of a

1267
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: murderer just really tough. Yeah, it would be, it would

1268
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: be very tough to do that. I think there's just

1269
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 1: as far as the murder thing goes, it's like like

1270
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: Devin was just saying, the logistics seem kind of difficult,

1271
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: um and the practically the motive is not really there

1272
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: the nuclear power industry, as far as I'm concerned, I

1273
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: don't think so Willie is a huge threat. I mean,

1274
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 1: Willy wasn't a huge threat. They were if they really

1275
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: wanted to get what they wanted doing, you know, they

1276
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: were gotten it with And I was gonna say, I mean,

1277
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: even if he was a huge threat, it's easier to

1278
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: just be like, listen, he's an alcoholic, like he's not

1279
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: credit him, instead of murder him like it. Actually, it

1280
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: actually would have been better from their point of view,

1281
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: to get him wasted and arranged for him to run

1282
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: off the road as he did, and and just totally

1283
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 1: and this is a third driving offense, drunk and just

1284
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: arranged for the police to show up and arrest him. Now,

1285
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: that would have been totally discredited. That would have been

1286
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: a lot better. If you've got to plan this whole

1287
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: thing out, do that, that would make more sense. But

1288
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: again that then then there's the all the people that

1289
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: are involved in at that, none of which talked which

1290
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. These giant conspiracies require many

1291
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: people to coordinate, and yet none of them uttered a word.

1292
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah there's that too, and so that, you know, that

1293
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: really makes me think that this really was truly a suicide,

1294
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: because again, I just I just can't quite see the

1295
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: murder as happening. Nobody I don't think had that great

1296
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: of a motive to kill the guy. And even though

1297
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't know to strike me as a suicidal guy either,

1298
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: I didn't know him that well. I will look, I

1299
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: have to. I'm not fully committed to suicide theory, but

1300
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: there are things that I can see, like the not

1301
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: being Amelia incapacitated by the gunshot, wound in in an

1302
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: altered state, disposing of the weapon because you know, you're

1303
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of in then half dreamland, but just fell out

1304
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: of his hand into the burn you know, Yeah, I

1305
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: mean maybe he maybe he didn't chuck it. Maybe he

1306
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: was sixty ft away from the car whatever it was

1307
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: when he shot himself and they put the car back,

1308
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, he was back to the car and

1309
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: kind of is it a fugue something, you know, some

1310
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: altered state, but or they put the car back in

1311
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: the wrong place, and it actually did fall straight from

1312
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: his hand out the driver's side window right into the

1313
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: burn and David Couse just did just I know, but

1314
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: I just I have I am not so prideful that

1315
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: if I completely screwed the pooch, I would want to

1316
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: end it all to get out of the embarrassment. So

1317
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: I have a difficulty with the theory of Willie got

1318
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: his third drunk driving and was like, Nope, not do

1319
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: when I'm out y'all. All yeah, well, obviously they would

1320
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: have to have been other reasons. That could have been

1321
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: the straw that broke the camel's back. Like I said,

1322
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, if really, if really really wanted to go

1323
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: on living, but he's facing a lot of trouble over this,

1324
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: you can go hide in the bushes too. I mean,

1325
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: look at Ted Kennedy and he he'said a sterling example.

1326
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 1: You know, just follow that example. Yeah, is that where

1327
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: you're getting the hide in the bushes theory from? Now?

1328
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: I got that from my own past. No, just kidding,

1329
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: But all right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go with suicide.

1330
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, you guys have any thoughts here? I

1331
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: think yeah, I think all right, So okay, Scotland, I

1332
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: think you can put this one to bed okay, all right,

1333
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: and and speaking of and speaking of Scottish people, if

1334
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: you all would like to send us a congratulatory email

1335
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: for you yeah, or get really angry with this or

1336
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 1: argue with us whatever, sent us an email. That's a

1337
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcas asked at gmail dot com. We also

1338
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 1: have a website Thinking Sideways podcast dot com where you'll

1339
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: find our episodes, uh, with also an episode list over

1340
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: on the right. We have merch out there. We've also

1341
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: got links to our Instagram and our Facebook and what

1342
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: our Twitter account to Twitter and read it. Yeah, you

1343
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: read it, that's right. Yeah, we got Reddit. Uh. Yeah.

1344
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: We are totally social social media, as we have were

1345
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: on Facebook of course, where we have a page and

1346
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: we have a group, so like a page joined the group,

1347
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: you gotta answer to questions. They're easy. Uh, it's just

1348
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: to prove that you're not a robot. Uh. Streaming, we're

1349
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: all over the place, but the most funnest place to

1350
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 1: find us, of course, is on Stitcher Premium, where if

1351
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: you go to stitcher dot com slash Thinking Sideways used

1352
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: code sideways, you can listen to us four days at

1353
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: a time with no commercial content. And also you get

1354
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: bonus content, and if you sign up what that code sideways,

1355
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: you get a a month as well, so definitely consider

1356
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: Stitcher Premium. All the cool kids are doing it where else.

1357
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: Of course, we were on Twitter where we are thinking sideways,

1358
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: are Subreddit thinking sideways? Our email merchandise. I think that's

1359
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: about it, all right, So that's it for this week,

1360
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: you guys. Any last thoughts? First round? For me, I

1361
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: have no idea what that mental trying to make a

1362
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: joke about the gun, but it didn't work. Puns are

1363
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: really horrid. Okay, I got it round. She's given me

1364
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: were talking, she's got married, and now she's perfected that

1365
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 1: that angry look. Yes, I'm familiar with it, which is

1366
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: why it scares the crap out of It's amazing the metamorphosis.

1367
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: All right, you guys next week, then bye bye, guys,