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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that gives you the secret histories and little known, fascinating

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Speaker 1: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows

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Speaker 1: and more. We are your two appliance repairman of Apocrypha.

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Speaker 1: I'm Alex Sigel and I'm Jordan Run Talk and Jordan's.

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Speaker 1: Today we are continuing our long standing tradition of delving

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Speaker 1: deeply into children's movies that are directly responsible anecdotally at least,

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Speaker 1: for severely traumatizing their intended audience for the rest of

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Speaker 1: their lives. Having covered horse murder and weirdly erotic sentient

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Speaker 1: Google villains, and just Christopher Lloyd being himself and Christopher

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Speaker 1: Lloyd as himself, we now move on to the movie

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Speaker 1: that showed us that household appliances were not only self

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Speaker 1: aware and had independent lives, but that they were capable

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Speaker 1: of deep, fathomless suffering, mental and physical. That's right, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Brave Little Toaster Turned this year, truth be told.

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Speaker 1: I watched this movie as a child, I'm guessing a

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Speaker 1: number of times, as was my wont but my only

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Speaker 1: memory of it until now was the Jack Nicholson air

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Speaker 1: conditioner blowing himself up and dying, although I'm told that

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Speaker 1: he is repaired at the end of the film. Yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: But that's all I carry with me from this movie,

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Speaker 1: and I have never watched it again. But I will

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Speaker 1: say that in doing my research for this I have

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Speaker 1: come to a deep abiding love of director Jerry Rees,

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Speaker 1: who is just this elfin little presence of can doitiveness

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Speaker 1: and positivity, and I would protect him and I love him,

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Speaker 1: and he must be saved from the evils of the world.

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Speaker 1: What about you talk to me about Brave Little Toaster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my chief memory of this movie was the a c

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Speaker 1: blowing up. That was pretty horrifying. Let's also not forget

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Speaker 1: the time that Kirby the vacuum cleaner tried to eat

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Speaker 1: his own cord rather than across a waterfall. That one

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Speaker 1: really stuck with me. That's why I'm a broom guy

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Speaker 1: to this day. Whenever accidentally, like ladies and gentlemen, I'm

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Speaker 1: a broom man. If I say I'm a brew man,

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Speaker 1: you will believe me. I'm a broom man and a

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Speaker 1: family man. And let's not forget the nightmare scene with

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Speaker 1: the killer clowns. And the toaster being pursued by forks

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Speaker 1: and knives while suspended over a bathtub, which is yet

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Speaker 1: another seeming nod the suicide in this movie that's ostensibly

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Speaker 1: for children. Um, so that's weird. Oh yeah, And then

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Speaker 1: the scene of the beat up old cars are singing

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Speaker 1: about their lives as they're going to be crushed to

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Speaker 1: death in the junkyard. It's worse than cats for me

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Speaker 1: pretty much, now that I think about it. It's really

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Speaker 1: has a whole buffet of trauma. Have we We have

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Speaker 1: not done a kid's movie that was like, actually just

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Speaker 1: cute and cuddling. Everything has had a traumatic element to it,

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Speaker 1: so that's not a movie. I mean, the closest thing

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Speaker 1: we've done is like Rugrats and Blue. At least this

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Speaker 1: movie had the electric blanket, which was adorable. Blankly why

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Speaker 1: it's a little crying all the time. But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love this movie. I I was always really into Alison

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Speaker 1: Wonderland and surreal Lewis Carroll like stuff, and this kind

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Speaker 1: of always seemed cut from the same cloth, because I

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Speaker 1: mean it's bizarre, like why is a toaster the hero

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Speaker 1: of your movie? I mean I admire that now in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it seemed like a dry run

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Speaker 1: for the Toy Story franchise, which will later Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the comparisons are many. They're both stories of abandonment, loneliness,

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Speaker 1: and wanting to be reunited with the one you love.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean really the plots are kind of identical.

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Speaker 1: In animate objects dealing with the fact their beloved owner

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Speaker 1: has grown up and doesn't want them anymore. In a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, it's far sadder than Toy Story because

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Speaker 1: at least toys you have some element of like sentimentality

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Speaker 1: and connection towards you know, kids not gonna care about

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Speaker 1: throwing out a toaster or all vacuum cleaner, so that's sad.

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Speaker 1: They go on this life altering journey to seek out

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Speaker 1: their master, just like Toy Story three. There's a climat

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Speaker 1: seen at the Junkyard where these appliances of the face

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Speaker 1: throwing mortality and um, you know it's funny. This movie

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Speaker 1: sparked what I took to be a semi serious theoretical

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Speaker 1: ethical debate about the rights of AI appliances. You see this.

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Speaker 1: There's a piece on Daily dot dot com called how

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Speaker 1: the Brave Little Toaster predicted our robot future, which posits

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Speaker 1: the question, we're designing as sentient being to operate with

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Speaker 1: a singular function be a form of enslavement. It's like

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Speaker 1: one of the most famous like Rick and Morty jokes

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Speaker 1: is um he builds a little robot at the kitchen

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Speaker 1: table and it passes him the butter like picks up

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Speaker 1: the butter dish and rolls it over to him and

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Speaker 1: drops it off, and he goes, what is my function?

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Speaker 1: And he goes, you pass the butter and the little

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Speaker 1: guy just goes, oh God, he goes, yeah, I joined

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Speaker 1: the party pal. So this was all interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: But I was also an extremely sensitive kid, to the

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Speaker 1: point where it was almost debilitating. So this movie gave

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Speaker 1: me a complex about getting rid of all appliances and

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Speaker 1: likely contributed to my pack rat tendencies. I do wonder

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Speaker 1: how many kids developed like a weird fixation to toasters

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Speaker 1: after this movie came out. Well, I mean, no one

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Speaker 1: talked about it in any of the making of or anything.

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Speaker 1: But it's Shinto is um. It's the Japanese religion that

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Speaker 1: like everything has a spirit, you know, the closest modern analog.

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Speaker 1: I can think of it as like Marie Condo and

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Speaker 1: she personifies stuff in terms of being like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: like a condo person. I've never condued anything in my life.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a hoarder. But treating your clothing and your

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Speaker 1: objects with love because they serve you. Um, and just

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Speaker 1: the idea that like, yeah, things do have spirits. So

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Speaker 1: a rich text, as they used to tell me in

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Speaker 1: English college. Well, the film has been seemingly memory hold

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Speaker 1: by the House of Mouse. So future generations are, depending

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Speaker 1: on how you look at it, either safer from debilitating

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Speaker 1: trauma or deprived from an excellent piece of falling between

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Speaker 1: the Cracks animation, but either way from the truly astounding

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Speaker 1: array of nineties animation royalty who worked on this movie,

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Speaker 1: to the interior Disney drama that threatened the film at

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Speaker 1: its genesis and end, to the long and wild and

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Speaker 1: sad career of the man who wrote the original book.

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Speaker 1: Here is everything you didn't know about the Brave Little Toaster.

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Speaker 1: Thomas M. Dish, the guy who wrote the novella that

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Speaker 1: the film adapts, had a tremendously far ranging career as

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Speaker 1: an author, and took a similarly tremendously far ranging route

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Speaker 1: to get there. He was raised in Iowa, and Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: and he displayed an early love for the written word.

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Speaker 1: When he relates this anecdote, he had been given the

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Speaker 1: assignment to memorize a hundred lines of poetic verse by

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Speaker 1: a teacher, and he memorized a thousand, to which I say,

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Speaker 1: good on you, overachiever. He had one of those really

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Speaker 1: wild mid century American cvs that a lot of these

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Speaker 1: writers have. He worked a job as a trainee steel draftsman.

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Speaker 1: He was an extra at the Metropolitan Opera House for

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Speaker 1: multiple productions. After he moved to New York, he worked

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Speaker 1: at bookstores, newspapers, ad agencies, coatroom attendant at a theater,

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Speaker 1: an insurance company. He was a bank teller, and he

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Speaker 1: worked as a mortuary assistant funeral home. But in what

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Speaker 1: will become a recurring theme in his life, he battled

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Speaker 1: severe depression. He attempted suicide at the age of just

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Speaker 1: eighteen by sticking his head into his gas oven, but

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Speaker 1: failed because he had not paid the gas bill. Wow.

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Speaker 1: That's that's like a Woody Allen. Real real truth is

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Speaker 1: stranger than fiction. Wow. Um. He enlisted the Army around

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Speaker 1: this time, but was so traumatized by the experience that

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Speaker 1: he was committed to a mental institution for three months,

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Speaker 1: but none of that stopped him from writing. Yeah, thank god.

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Speaker 1: He had an incredibly varied writing career. Aside from writing

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Speaker 1: science fiction, he wrote see children's books, but also horror,

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Speaker 1: literary and theater criticism, plays, a libretto for an opera

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Speaker 1: of Frankenstein, which rules, and many volumes of poetry. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen this Frankenstein libretto? No? I haven't. Did you

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Speaker 1: look into it? I've been able to find it. I

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Speaker 1: would love to see that. And then in one of

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Speaker 1: his plays called The Cardinal Detoxes, drew a season dessist

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Speaker 1: order from the Catholic Archdiocese of New York because it

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Speaker 1: was stage in a small experimental theater housed in the

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Speaker 1: Most Holy Redeemer Church. Did you look up the plot?

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Speaker 1: I haven't looked at the plot. But wasn't there a church?

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Speaker 1: Uh near Meatpacking District that was turned into a club

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Speaker 1: in the nineties for all the club kid. I don't

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Speaker 1: know about that. But the reason the church came down

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Speaker 1: on him for this was he he admittedly wrote it

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Speaker 1: to piss them off. It is the story of an

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Speaker 1: alcoholic cardinal going like cold turkey, detoxing in a I think,

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Speaker 1: either in a rehab facility or like in a jail cell.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like a monologue. It's like a one

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Speaker 1: person play of this of like a guy getting like

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Speaker 1: the Sheiks and the dt s and withdrawing from alcohol

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Speaker 1: and just like ranting and raving. And he was like

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Speaker 1: a very anti religious tract and it was staged in

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Speaker 1: a church. Wow. So the Archdiocese came after him for it.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah. I mean, apparently this was a fairly mainstream controversy,

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Speaker 1: which is impressive considering it's just off off off Broadway,

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Speaker 1: and the Archdiocese supposedly placed pressure on the Department of

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Speaker 1: Buildings to close the building down on show night. So

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Speaker 1: of course he went after him. Of course they denied it,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's everyone involved in it was like, of

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Speaker 1: course they did that, Like of course they leaned on

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Speaker 1: the Department of Buildings to go in and be like

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Speaker 1: it's unsafe. Well, is that the Catholic Church the largest

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Speaker 1: private landowner in New York City. They were, as you

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Speaker 1: can perhaps see by now, Dish was, to put it mildly,

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Speaker 1: a complicated guy. Despite working frequently in the sci fi genre.

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Speaker 1: He trashed a lot of the names the Sacred Cows

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Speaker 1: of the ca in Uh, guys like Robert Heinlein in

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Speaker 1: a he He did this in the Nine Say, provocatively

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Speaker 1: titled The Embarrassments of Science Fiction. He panned Ray Bradbury

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Speaker 1: in The New York Times, which is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: panning Jesus for sci fi nerds, and then subsequently never

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Speaker 1: got another assignment from The Times over that review. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: he then wrote a book about the genre in the

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Speaker 1: nineties that took a very confrontational stance towards it, and

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Speaker 1: my personal favorite. He had a feud with another acclaimed

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Speaker 1: sci fi writer, Philip K. Dick. He of writing the

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Speaker 1: book Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep that Blade Runners

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Speaker 1: based on, and The Man in the High Castle, among

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Speaker 1: many others. Um Dick, who infamously gobbled amphetamans like Tic

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Speaker 1: tas Uh. There was a period of his life when

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Speaker 1: he was writing a series of paranoid screeds missives to

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and Dish came up. In one of these,

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Speaker 1: Dick suggested to the FBI that there were a series

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Speaker 1: of coded messages prompted by a covert organization. In one

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Speaker 1: of Dish's novels Camp Concentration. Nothing ever came of this.

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Speaker 1: The FBI correctly deduced that Dick was a crazy person,

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Speaker 1: and uh, that was the end of that until in

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Speaker 1: his final novel, The Word of God, Dish wrote an

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Speaker 1: extended scene in which Philip K. Dick is dead and

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Speaker 1: inhale with writer's block. Is a weird score settling two

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Speaker 1: really weird guys having a really weird food. But he

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Speaker 1: did begrudging. There was bigrudging respect there. Yeah. Towards the

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Speaker 1: end of Dish's life, he was very forgiving of Philip K. Dick,

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Speaker 1: very aware that he was going through a troubled period.

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Speaker 1: I can't even call it a period in his life.

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Speaker 1: He was a troubled person. Uh. In an interview with

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Speaker 1: the website Linka Franca in two thousand one, Dish talks

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Speaker 1: about what rough shape Philip K. Dick was in. He said,

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Speaker 1: quote at this point in the early in mid nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: Dick was really freaking out on drugs, almost the horror

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Speaker 1: Foama Copia at peril, and the drugs didn't destroy his

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Speaker 1: gift entirely, even at his native but they did make

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Speaker 1: it impossible for him to distinguish between self interest and

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Speaker 1: pose imp of the perverse. I don't know what that means,

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Speaker 1: but I love it. He loved to make trouble. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Philip K. Dick is a really interesting guy. There was

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Speaker 1: an incident in early nineteen seventy four where a person

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Speaker 1: I believe his drug dealer, came to his door and

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Speaker 1: he became transfixed by the necklace that this woman was wearing.

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Speaker 1: And as he admired it, a sunray reflected off of

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Speaker 1: it and it created this sort of pink beam of light,

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Speaker 1: so he says, at least and Philip K. Dick became

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Speaker 1: transfixed by this pink beam, and he became convinced that

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Speaker 1: this beam of light imparted wisdom and special powers to him.

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Speaker 1: And soon after he came to believe that he was

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Speaker 1: living two parallel lives, one as himself Philip K. Dick,

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Speaker 1: and one as Thomas, a Christian persecuted by Romans in

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Speaker 1: the first century a d. So that's interesting. Yeah. Gnosticism,

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Speaker 1: which is the big heretical movement of the second century

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Speaker 1: of the Christian Church. People have called his later writing

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Speaker 1: as he got into this Catholic phase that like he

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Speaker 1: was basically writing gnostic science fiction he's such a fascinating guy. Man.

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Speaker 1: You ever seen Scanner Darkly, Yeah, yeah, the old Rhotoscope

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Speaker 1: movie when it's just like every every plot that dude

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Speaker 1: did was a result of eating so many emphetamines, because

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Speaker 1: it's all just like you start questioning your reality and like,

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Speaker 1: m I am whom who I say I am? It's like, yes,

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Speaker 1: those are fertile concepts for science fiction, but also you

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Speaker 1: ate so much speed, like this is why your mind

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Speaker 1: is fracturing. We talked about this in an earlier episode,

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Speaker 1: but somebody talked about him having a bowl of pills

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Speaker 1: on his kitchen table by the way that some people

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Speaker 1: have like nectarines, and he would just gobble them while

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Speaker 1: he was writing. Anyway, well he I mean, it reminds

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Speaker 1: me of um and the way that he reads novel

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Speaker 1: and basically read it as having coded messages to him.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of Brian Wilson, my hero from The

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Speaker 1: Beach Boys, became convinced that his uh one time mentor

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Speaker 1: and then rival Phil Specter was trying to sabotage him

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Speaker 1: and then bugged his house and was sending him messages

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Speaker 1: through movies. There's a famous story of Brian Wilson going

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Speaker 1: the movie. He did see a movie called Seconds with

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Speaker 1: Rock Hudson, this weird sci fi movie, and I guess

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Speaker 1: Brian was late, and he walked in a few minutes

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Speaker 1: into the movie, and right when he walked in, a

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Speaker 1: character on the screen says, hello, Mr Wilson, have a seat.

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Speaker 1: And this completely blew Brian's mind. And he was convinced

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Speaker 1: that Phil had somehow gotten in touch with the producers

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Speaker 1: of the movie to put this line in there, to

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Speaker 1: screw with Brian's head. Yeah, I mean again, both of

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Speaker 1: these men, and Philip K. Dick and Brian Wilson and

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Speaker 1: Phil Specter, we're all not in great We're not operating

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Speaker 1: with a clean bill of mental health, shall we say.

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Speaker 1: But the story of this tangent kids is lay off

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Speaker 1: the adderall or acid or speed or wherever it is. Yes, anyway, moderation, folks,

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Speaker 1: t M I, the t M I, the t M

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Speaker 1: I way, moderation. Anyway, back to the Brave Little Toasts,

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Speaker 1: This episode is gonna be a hell of a ride already.

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Speaker 1: I can tell um Dish, the man who wrote the

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Speaker 1: Brave Little Toasta novella. He was a gay man who

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Speaker 1: lived with the same partner for decades, and as you

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, he really struggled with depression and despondent after

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Speaker 1: his partner's death and really drained mentally from their fight

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Speaker 1: to keep their home, as well as his battles with

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Speaker 1: diabetes and sky attica. He died by suicide in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight. He shot himself, and a friend told

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Speaker 1: The New York Times for his oh bit that Dish

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Speaker 1: spoke quote often and frankly about suicide and had once

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Speaker 1: pitched a calendar with the famous suicide on each day

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Speaker 1: of the year, like Sylvia Place on February eleven. Um.

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Speaker 1: This is the mind that brought us the story of

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Speaker 1: an anthropomorphic toaster and a vacuum cleaner who tries to

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Speaker 1: suck up his own chords. So yeah, there's a real

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Speaker 1: darkness there, although in the movie and they the movie

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Speaker 1: was definitely took a lot of liberties with his text.

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Speaker 1: I should say, yeah, and we'll find that out later.

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Speaker 1: But he may be the most complex figure to ever

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Speaker 1: have something adapted into Disney outside of like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Victor Hugo with like the Bunchback of Notre Dame, but like,

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Speaker 1: good lord, what a life anyway, Brave Little Toaster first

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Speaker 1: appeared as a novella in the August nineteen eighty issue

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Speaker 1: of the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. It was

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Speaker 1: nominated for both a Hugo Award and a Nebula Award,

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Speaker 1: and as the big prestigious Sci Fi Literary Awards. The

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Speaker 1: novella was later published as a book in May of

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Speaker 1: eighties six, but even that that was an uphill battle

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Speaker 1: firm as well. Um Dish told Strange Your Eyes in

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one, All of the book publishers who

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Speaker 1: saw the proposal for The Brave Little Toaster said, no,

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Speaker 1: the notion of appliances talking and having characters is just

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Speaker 1: too far fetched and children will not accept it. This

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Speaker 1: was even after he had sold the rights to this

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Speaker 1: to Disney and the film was in production. He was

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Speaker 1: trying to get something that was currently being adapted for

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Speaker 1: a feature film by the biggest children's entertainment company in

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Speaker 1: the world, and his publishers were like, no, kids were asinine. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In case you haven't picked up on this, Dish is

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Speaker 1: something of a misunderstood genius. In the Science Fiction Encyclopedia,

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Speaker 1: the entry on Dish reads as follows quote Because of

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Speaker 1: his intellectual audacity, the chillingly distance mannerisms of his narrative art,

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Speaker 1: the austerity of the pleasures he affords, and the fine

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Speaker 1: cruelty of his wit. Dish was perhaps the most respected,

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Speaker 1: least trusted, most envied, and least read of all science

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Speaker 1: fiction writers. Of the first to rank. That's a hell

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Speaker 1: of a description. And yeah, this book was definitely outside

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Speaker 1: the realm of most children's literature, that's for sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the characters quote Coral Marx, which is unusual. I guess

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Speaker 1: if you're not George Orwell writing Animal Farm, although I

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Speaker 1: don't have the quote marks. The New York Times review

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Speaker 1: of the Brave Little Toaster novella called it quote a

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Speaker 1: wonderful book for a certain sort of eccentric adult, which

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Speaker 1: sounds like a backhanded compliment. We're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll be right back with more too

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Speaker 1: much information in just a moment. So much of the

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Speaker 1: story of Toaster is inextricable from the freshman class at

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Speaker 1: Disney's cow Arts and John Lasseter, who, if you have

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Speaker 1: an even passing interest in modern animation, you know the

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Speaker 1: name John Lasseter. He is the Pixar guy responsive over

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Speaker 1: toy story cars and most of the company's world domination um.

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Speaker 1: But in high school he was just another innocent, little

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Speaker 1: animation nerd writing letters to Disney about wanting to work

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Speaker 1: for them. And then his senior year, he gets a

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Speaker 1: letter from the company explaining that they were starting a

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Speaker 1: character animation program at the California Institute of the Arts

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Speaker 1: Film School, taught by artists from Disney's heyday, and this class,

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Speaker 1: this freshman class of cal Arts is His classmates included

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Speaker 1: Tim Burton, brad Bird, who is another Pixar heavy hitter

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Speaker 1: the Incredibles, and John Musker, who did Aladdin UM. And

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Speaker 1: this first class graduates in nine But at the time,

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Speaker 1: Lasseter explained to CNN in two thousand six, quote, the

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Speaker 1: animation studio wasn't being run by these great Disney artists

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Speaker 1: like our teachers at cal Arts, but by lesser artists

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Speaker 1: and business people who rose through attrition as the grand

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Speaker 1: old men retired. One of the directors told me, you

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Speaker 1: put in your time for twenty years and do what

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Speaker 1: you're told, and then you can be in charge. Sounds

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Speaker 1: like publishing, but you know he managed to even reads

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Speaker 1: John Reads, the director and the animators on this film

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Speaker 1: managed to sneak in some loving tributes to cal Arts. Nonetheless, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the master's address is seventy McBean Parkway, which is the

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Speaker 1: address of cal Arts in Valencia, California. And the master's

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Speaker 1: apartment is A one one three, which is the room

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Speaker 1: where character animation classes were held at cal Arts. And

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Speaker 1: that's an easter Eggan most Pixar films, if not all.

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Speaker 1: UH crops up in the license plate on Andy's SUV

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Speaker 1: and the Toy Story series. It's written in Roman numerals

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Speaker 1: in brave, and it's on a Marquee movie. Marquis and

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Speaker 1: the Incredibles too. I love their dedication to upping their

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Speaker 1: exactly what do we do to the bit we commit um?

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Speaker 1: So Lasseter is he sees some of the earliest experiments

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Speaker 1: with computer animation in and then nine ten two Disney

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Speaker 1: releases Tron, which famously was basically the first milestone in

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Speaker 1: combining live action and computer animation. So Laster makes friends

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Speaker 1: with an executive who worked on Tron, guy named Tom

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Speaker 1: will Hight, and under will Heights you know blessing. He

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Speaker 1: puts together a thirty second test which I believe is

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Speaker 1: based on where the wild things are that combined traditional

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Speaker 1: two D animation with three D computer rendered backgrounds. I

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Speaker 1: think so interesting. I wonder why I landed on that.

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Speaker 1: So a friend of his showed him The Brave Little

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Speaker 1: Toaster the novella, and he gets Willite to acquire the

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Speaker 1: rights so that they can pitch this film along with

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Speaker 1: their test clip. And Lasseter said that going into the meeting,

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Speaker 1: the head of the studio, guy named Ron W. Miller,

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Speaker 1: had only one question, how much is this going to cost?

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Speaker 1: I'm only interested in computer animation if it saves money

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Speaker 1: or time. And then, Lasseter, I have to say diplomatically.

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Speaker 1: In this CNN interview, he does not name any of

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Speaker 1: these people, but later historians have name them, so that's

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Speaker 1: how I got their names. Um and so he said.

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Speaker 1: Later he found out that his immediate supervisor, who is

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Speaker 1: an animation administrator named Ed Hansen, was miffed that Lasseter

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Speaker 1: had kind of done an end run around him. He'd

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Speaker 1: circumvented him in the chain of command to pitch the

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Speaker 1: idea and, in Lasterter's words, poked holes in my idea

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Speaker 1: before I had even pitched it. Ten minutes after the meeting,

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Speaker 1: he got a call from Hanson firing him where he

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Speaker 1: essentially said, well, since your project isn't green light, we

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Speaker 1: don't need you anymore. But luckily he was taken on

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Speaker 1: by Lucasfilms for the new Computer Graphics division and the

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Speaker 1: rest this history. So now, sans Lasseter, the film is

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Speaker 1: greenlit at Disney. Since they had already paid for the rights,

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Speaker 1: they figured, we'll just do this thing anyway with a

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Speaker 1: budget of eighteen million, so keep that figure in mind later.

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Speaker 1: And then it is transferred to the new Hyperion Pictures,

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Speaker 1: which is founded by Will hit the guy who greenlit

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Speaker 1: Laster's initial experiments with computer animation. He requested the project

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Speaker 1: from Miller, so they go, okay, fine, you can have it.

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Speaker 1: So the budget is slashed from eighteen million to just

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Speaker 1: under six million, and then again to two point three million.

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Speaker 1: The budget for this was so low that they unheard

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Speaker 1: of for a Disney associated project. They shipped animation partially

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Speaker 1: overseas to Taipei for this hand picked group of American

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Speaker 1: the American team to work alongside Taiwanese artists at the

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Speaker 1: studio weighing film productions. Then six Hyperion picks Jerry Rees

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Speaker 1: who worked on The Fox and the Hound and Tron

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Speaker 1: along with a guy named Joe Ranft, who is another

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Speaker 1: cal Arts grad to Helm Toaster. So now the Toaster

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Speaker 1: creative team is in place. In Hi's own words, he

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Speaker 1: said he was kind of languishing at Disney, getting paid

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Speaker 1: to do nothing in between pictures, which it's kind of

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Speaker 1: the dream buddy, you uh might have that one up,

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Speaker 1: uh he but he was promised creative freedom this picture,

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Speaker 1: but with the caveat that you have no money to

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Speaker 1: do it. Two point three million. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know, said how you would make a live action

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Speaker 1: movie for that animation. I imagine it was significantly more

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Speaker 1: expensive with all the people you need to actually, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's insane, it's nuts. He said later. We had to

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Speaker 1: do every day on Toaster what we would do in

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Speaker 1: two weeks at Disney. And because this thing was made

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Speaker 1: on such a shoe string budget, they had four weeks

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Speaker 1: for pre pro, which is insane. Again, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: even get to record this in like traditional like the

425
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: Disney vocal boots. Oh yeah, I read they had to

426
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: find like a derelict building on the Disney lot that

427
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: they had the revamp and get it somewhat up to

428
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: spect to record v o and that they want the

429
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: voice over book to give him the shack. The toaster

430
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: picture gets the shack. Uh. They started storyboarding while the

431
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: script was being written. Reese talked about, well, we would

432
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: storyboard until there wasn't any more script, and then we

433
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: would take a break and write the script and then

434
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: go back to the story boards, always staying like twenty

435
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: pages ahead of the process. Rees said that there were

436
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: only four lines from the film that were actual lines

437
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: in the book, and the scene that scened that you

438
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Well, I don't know if you mentioned this,

439
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: but in the trash crushing scene, the scene where the

440
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: toaster sacrifices themselves to save their owner was also a

441
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: Jerry Rees and Company invention. Um, they really wanted the

442
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: little guy or girl to earn the brave appellation. And

443
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: this is funny reason. An interview from this year said

444
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: that Maurice Sendac again, second appearance of a friend of

445
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: the pod. Maurice Sendac, the second you get mentioned twice,

446
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: you become a friend of the pod. Um, we don't

447
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: make the rules now, it's just yeah, it's just podcast law.

448
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: Sendak came and saw the film and they had dinner

449
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: later and he supposedly told him. Sendac told Reese as

450
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: an author, I'm sure that dishes piste off. You changed

451
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: his story, but also as an author, I'm telling you

452
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: it's better now. I'd just like to add right here

453
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: that there's an actual AI toaster that's been engineered seemingly

454
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: in reference to this movie. The toaster's name is Brad,

455
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: and buckle up for this. Brad is networked with other

456
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: toasters in the area, and quote knows when it's not

457
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: making as much toast as the other toasters. And if

458
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: Brad the toaster is falling below average usage, he's gonna

459
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: let you know. Initially, he's going to get your attention

460
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: by wiggling the little handles on the side of the

461
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: you know, lowers the bread. If that doesn't work, Brad

462
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: will go on social media and complain about the fact

463
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: that he's not making enough toast for you. If that

464
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: doesn't work, Brad will order bread online to be sent

465
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: to the house, And if all else fails, Brad will

466
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: sell himself online and arrange for ups to pick him up.

467
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: That's grim. That is some Isaac Asimov, Oh God selling toaster.

468
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: Moving on from Matt sin against God again because of

469
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: the shoestring nature of this production, they had to cast

470
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: this thing before the screenplay was even finished. Rant studied

471
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: with the iconic l A improv troupe, the Groundlings, and

472
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: as a result, the casting drew heavily from that crew,

473
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: including Phil Hartman who was doing Jack Nicholson playing the

474
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: air conditioner, and Peter Laurie for the lamp in the

475
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: spare parts shop, probably the first Peter Lorrie impression I

476
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: ever heard, and then in short order Wren. I thought

477
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: it was yeah, that was what I was gonna say.

478
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: I thought it was just the same voice actor who

479
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: did Wren. You idiot? Uh? And then John Lovitts making

480
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: his animated future debut. Fun fact, while we're talking about Hartman,

481
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: he was actually hired to dub Nicholson's lines for this

482
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: movie The Border. When Jack Nicholson was like, I'm not

483
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: coming I'm not coming back for that. I got Lakers tickets.

484
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: I've never heard that Jack Nicholson impression from you. I'm

485
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: glad this is why don't she send Phil he's wearing

486
00:27:54,200 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: the shades. Uh. Coincidentally, both Phil Harmon and Jack Elson,

487
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: We're both considered to play the role of Hades in

488
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: Disney's Hercules prior to James Woods being cast in the role.

489
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: Another fun fact, Julia Phil Hartman ran his own graphic

490
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: design studio in the seventies and he designed covers. He

491
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: was like a member of the Laurel Canyon folk rock

492
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: scene in l A. Designed album covers for America and Poco,

493
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: and he certainly designed the logo for csm Y or CSN. Rather,

494
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: I should say I think CSN they couldn't afford Gotta

495
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: get that day right down. Um Reads said of the

496
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: approach that he and rand took too because the characters

497
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: in the novella don't have such strong personalities, they wanted

498
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: to craft more specific visions for the characters, and so

499
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: Reese said, we needed to have characters who would really

500
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: complement one another. So we created opposites within the group.

501
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: To do that, we looked at how each character dealt

502
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: with the loss of his master. Toaster is warm and

503
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: people are comforted by their reflection in it. Radio is

504
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: constantly trying to be the entertainer Lamp. He thinks he's bright,

505
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: but it's actually pretty dim. Vacuum holds things inside and

506
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: has a nervous breakdown because of it, and Blankie is

507
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: insecure because he doesn't have his child to hug. What

508
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: is your therapist said about you? And which household appliance

509
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: does that make you? What are you? I'm I'm well,

510
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm actually radio and and then vacuum retrograde. God, the

511
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: character development in this is that's my dude. I that's

512
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: the thing. I did not go back to rewatch this film,

513
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: but now I'm like, so much craft and love went

514
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: into this thing. For it's like a racer head all

515
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: over again, where they're like, we had no money, we

516
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: had no support, and we have put so much of

517
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: ourselves and so much love into this. It's it's beautiful. Yeah,

518
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. I mean just little things that you

519
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't even think about. There's a scene when the Toaster

520
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: has trouble reading the phone book to find his master's

521
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: address and lamp. He has to chime in and help him,

522
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: and Leppy knows how to read because he sat with

523
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: the Master while he was reading his books. Like just

524
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: all these little details like oh yeah, of course a

525
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: bedside table lamp would know how to read, and the

526
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: air conditioner. It's so bitter and resentful because the Master

527
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: was too short to reach his dials, so he felt unloved. Yeah,

528
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: that's great. And Kirby the Vacuum is grumpy all the

529
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: time because the Master would only use him, you know,

530
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: when he had to do chores and just very reluctant.

531
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: So he has this kind of chip on his shoulder

532
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: for that reason. And then as you mentioned, you've got

533
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: the blanket, whose neediness stems from the fact that his

534
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: primary function is to cuddle someone and keep them warm

535
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: and he has no one to do that with. Oh

536
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 1: that's just yeah, yeah, just as I said those words,

537
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: that's uh so yeah. I just think the psychology of

538
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: this movie is incredibly clever. Um. It's always like the

539
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: line when lamp he sees the sun for the presumably

540
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: the first time because lamp he is always inside and goes, wow,

541
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: I wonder where the switches. That is some Philip k

542
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: Dicky and dude like the lamp being like, I wonder

543
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: how that turns on? Incredible incredible stuff. Love it. Who

544
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: plays that motor mouth obnoxious radio based in part on

545
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: Walter Winchell, who we talked about in the You Got

546
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: What You Give? Episode. He's the gossip columnists who's credited

547
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: with inventing the term friend of me, friend of the now.

548
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: He's a friend of the pod is Walter Jamie. Can

549
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: we get Walter Renchel on the pod next week? Can

550
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: we get a Wigi board? And I need an old

551
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: priest and a young priest. Um so love it. Love

552
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: It gets cast on Saturday Night Live while Toaster is

553
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: still in pre pro. This is incredible. This is my favorite,

554
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: my single favorite anecdote from this film. Reason, who wrote

555
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: the character with Love It's in mind, begged Love It's

556
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,959
Speaker 1: to stay in l A long enough to record and

557
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: John agreed to. Apparently the consternation of his cast thing

558
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: is whoever was rapping him, because they were like, you

559
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: cannot go to SNL with a movie in the tank

560
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: that you just did, like that violence contract. Whatever. But

561
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: Reason finishes the third act of the movie under this

562
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: Dress meets Love It's at the recording studio with the

563
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: finished screenplay Love It's dozen entire films worth of dialogue.

564
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: In one sitting, the recording engineer at this session said

565
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: he had never seen anything like it. I love that

566
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: so much. And the only thing that lovetts is not

567
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: in the film, as is the singing voice of radio,

568
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: which is Jerry Rees. Yeah. I just thought it was

569
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: interesting that John Lovetts and Phil Hartman were best friends

570
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: in real life and they worked together a few more times,

571
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: and they were also famously both cast members on Saturday Live.

572
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: But I think they were both on and by the

573
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: time this movie aired, and John Lovett's, in a very

574
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: sad turn, also replaced Phil Hartman after his murder on

575
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: the sitcom news Radio, which led to a long running

576
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: feud with fellow news radio co star Andy Dick. Have

577
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,239
Speaker 1: you heard the story I have from you? But I

578
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: just want to say, folks, maybe skip thirty seconds ahead

579
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: if you don't want to get very sad. You're sadder

580
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: than the rest of this episode will make you. But

581
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: if you love Phil Hartman and you love Johnian, it's

582
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: a story worth hearing. There's a great book on him

583
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: called You Might Remember Me as and I Am Joe McClure.

584
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: You might remember me from I Think So. It's just

585
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: great title for a book about Phil Hartman. So you'll

586
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: recall that Phil Hartman was murdered by his wife, Bryn, who,

587
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: it must be said, struggled with some mental health issues

588
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: in her life, and she battled addiction and had apparently

589
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: been cleaned for several years when Andy Dick gave her

590
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: cocaine at a Christmas party for the news radio cast

591
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: in December, the year before the murder, and Phil believed

592
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: that Andy gave her the drugs that sparked to relapse,

593
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: and he's denied it, saying that he knew nothing of

594
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: Brin's drug history and she was already off the wagon

595
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 1: and asked him if he had any coke and he

596
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: said yeah and gave it to her, end of story.

597
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: Regardless of the moral and ethical responsibility, Phil blamed Andy

598
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: on some level and told his friend John Lovett's this,

599
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: Andy Dick was responsible for my wife relapsing. And it's

600
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: believed that when Phil's wife, Bryn murdered him and then

601
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: took her own life, she was having some sort of

602
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: episode due to cocaine mixing with her and I have

603
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: depressant prescription. And her family actually filed a wrongful death

604
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Fiser, and I believe they settled out of court,

605
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: which is unusual because Big farm A rarely settled. So

606
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: I just think that's interesting. So after Phil's murder, John

607
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: Lovetts was called into effectively replace him on News radio,

608
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: and he and Nanny Dick immediately butted heads on the

609
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: set at one point, and he told him he shouldn't

610
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: even be there, to which John Lovett said, well, I

611
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here if he hadn't given Bryn coke in

612
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: the first place. Things got heated, but they chilled out, apologized,

613
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: moved on. Things were okay for years until two thousand six.

614
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: John Lovett had restaurant when a drunk Andy Dick comes

615
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: up to him and hissed, I put the Phil Hartman

616
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 1: hex on you. You're the next one to die. And Lovetts,

617
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: who I think it was? At a restaurant that John

618
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: Lovetts owned, got Andy Dick thrown out and banned them

619
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: from the place. And then a year later they crossed

620
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: paths again the laugh Factory comedy club in l A.

621
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: And John LOVETTZ basically gave him the opportunity to apologize,

622
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,479
Speaker 1: but Andy was like, well, you know why I said

623
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: that because you said I killed Phil Hartman. That's the

624
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: first thing you said to me when I got on

625
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: news radio, and John Lovetts responded by smashing his head

626
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: into the bar over and over until the bouncer broken up. So, yeah,

627
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to

628
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: pile on Andy Dick, but just survey of his headlines

629
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: on page six. Andy Dick will not be charged following

630
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: sexual battery arrest. What was that? In May of this year?

631
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: Oh wow? Uh? Andy Dick arrested for allegedly hitting boyfriend

632
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: with liquor bottle. November two, twenty one, Andy Dick arrested

633
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: for assault with a deadly weapon. June, Andy Dick charged

634
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: with groping driver. October Andy Dick charged with misdemeanor sexual battery. July.

635
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: Andy Dick ordered to stay away from wife and kids. March.

636
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Andy Dick arrested in theft of necklace November. So no judgment,

637
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: but just just what he's what he's been in the

638
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: news for for the best eight six however many years.

639
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. Time is a mystery to me. But

640
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 1: you know who played the mom of Master? I believe

641
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: you do? Jordan's That's right, I do. Mindy Sterling, famous

642
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: as fraul Frobissona in Austin Powers. He was also a

643
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: member of the Groundlings comedy group. Uh, You're never gonna

644
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: believe this. I didn't even put this in here because

645
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: I want to get an authentic reaction from you guests,

646
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: who was allegedly considered for the voice of the teenage

647
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: slash adult Master Christopher Walkin. No, mm hmm is it Groundling?

648
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: Is a you said, I don't think he is. Macaulay Culkin.

649
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: You got one more think of, think of think of

650
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: this podcast. Tom Hanks, Yep, of course it's always Hanks,

651
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: always Hanks. Dina Oliver the voice of Toaster. She originally

652
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: auditioned for the role of a c using a Betty

653
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: Davis impression. What. I can't imagine how that would have worked. Yeah,

654
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: very much, so, I actually love this. Toaster is a

655
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: non binary individual. The character's gender is completely indeterminate. Um

656
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: in the book, none of the appliances have gender, because yeah,

657
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: the film seems to refer to Toaster as a boy.

658
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: But Rees has kind of interchangeably used in Reddit. He

659
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: did his Reddit a m a where I'm pulling a

660
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: lot of stuff from He referred Toaster as girls. As

661
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: she and Dan Oliver, who did the voice, went through

662
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: the movie believing that there it was a girl, and

663
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: she was not corrected. And Rees said that he designed

664
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: the character so that it would be androgyness. He said,

665
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: I was thinking in a sort of androgynous way about

666
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: the character. If a male is talking to toaster and

667
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: sees the reflection, they think of it as a male presence.

668
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: But if a female is talking to toaster, yeah, galaxy brain,

669
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: and sees herself reflected, she would think of it as

670
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: a female presence. This was this year he gave an

671
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: interview about this. It was like dropping this knowledge. I mean,

672
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: maybe he's had thirty five years to come up with

673
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: a really great explanation for this, but actually, you know,

674
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: I've read I watched way too many interviews with Jerry

675
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: Rees for this, and I he has. He has stayed

676
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: admirably on message with this stuff. Again gets back to

677
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: the incredible character development, all the thought and care and

678
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: love that went in this movie. And he says the

679
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: only time his office door was ever slammed was when

680
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: he told an execut came in to check on the

681
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: film and he told them that think cast a woman

682
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: is the lead? What the hell? Just Disney, Yeah, dude,

683
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: like women are only for princesses, not toasters, something to

684
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: that effect. Yeah, but yeah, I guess the debate surrounding

685
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: the gender of the titular toaster burns hot on the internet.

686
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: Toasters become something of a totem or a mascot in

687
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: lgbt Q circles due to the androgens presentation. Some have

688
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: called toaster a quote non binary icon. I'm here for it.

689
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: Uh in a Q and a with rees that's a

690
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: cow state. It's a really adorable interview. Oliver said that

691
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: when her son was deployed to Afghanistan, soldiers brought toasters

692
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: to the deployment ceremony for her to sign, which they

693
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: then took overseas. So now there's only one degree of

694
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: separation from the brave little toaster and the war on Terror.

695
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,959
Speaker 1: It's just so bad for her son's about to get

696
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: shipped off to war and she's having leather toasters shoved

697
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: in front of Wow. Uh. There's a funny story about

698
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: Dana Oliver when she was called into record one day,

699
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: but it was for a chase scene in the woods,

700
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: and all they needed her to do was just inhale

701
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: and exhale frantically for a few seconds and that was it. Yeah,

702
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: she said, She's like, that was my favorite day of work.

703
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: Hit your day rate for like three seconds of inhales

704
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: and excels the voice of Blankie. You don't like blanket, No,

705
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 1: I don't have annoying Uh. Timothy E. Day barely done

706
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: anything else. I think he did like one movie right

707
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: after this. Nothing before. This kid supposedly heard like a

708
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: child's voice in an animated thing they were watching and

709
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: turned to their mom was like, I could do that.

710
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: And Rees said, like his mom brought him to the audition.

711
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: She was not like a stage mom. She was like,

712
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: he wants to do this. And this kid was a

713
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: damn pro. His nickname on the set was one Take. Timmy.

714
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: Rees said that even though this kid was in like

715
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: elementary school, like seven and seven and a half years old. Uh,

716
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: he would ask about his motivation before doing his lines.

717
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: Um and really read said for the crying scene when

718
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: the blanky first melts down, he goes, I want the

719
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: engineer to hear you through that double glass window without

720
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: his headphones on. Ahead a kid to cry harder. Damnit,

721
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: we need more tears to sell this overseas. Yeah, the

722
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: kid was like seven and a half doing this. That's amazing.

723
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: And this is actually only my second favorite instance of

724
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: electric blankets and cinema. You know what My first is

725
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: what's that. It's the film The Thing from Another World,

726
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: which is a great old James. In this movie, a

727
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: electric blanket is haphazardly thrown on a block of ice

728
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: that melts, and the alien monster that was encased in

729
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: it is allowed to escape and run rampant. Well, folks,

730
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: I don't want to give you any spoilers for a

731
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: future episode of t m I, but we are laying

732
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: the groundwork for an episode that is related to the

733
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: Thing from Another World, so sharp eared viewers will pick

734
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: up that one. It's the Thing. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

735
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: you're right. Timothy Stack, who voiced Lampy i'd res, just

736
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that he would be on calls with his manager

737
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: during recording and just like hang up with his manager

738
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: and be like come back in and be like what

739
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: a lot would Padreon? But he did ad lib the

740
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: last line in the movie, I am aching with joy. Um.

741
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: That's all you get out of me. I don't remember

742
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: anything else about that character. But now we come on

743
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: to Thurl Mother Trucking Ravens cross Boy tell us about thorough.

744
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 1: He voiced the Vacuum, but more famously, he voiced Tony

745
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: the Tiger and the singing Voice of the Grinch. He's

746
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: done all kinds of stuff for Disney. The Pirates of

747
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: the Caribbean Ride, another mansion, another head on the Wall

748
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: of the Country, Bear Jamboree, another one. But he's also

749
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: in Walt Disney's Enchanted Taking Room, as Fritz Walt Didney's

750
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: Enchanted Tiki Room, the Sex Dungeon. Sorry, anyway, tell us

751
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: about the Grinch. I always think, always found this fascinating

752
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: because Boris Karloff. Yeah, Boris Karloff is the voice of

753
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: the Grinch and the narrator in the movie. But he

754
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: wasn't a trained singer, so they brought in Thurl Ravens Croft.

755
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: Thurle is his real name. By the way I looked

756
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 1: at up. I thought that would have to be short

757
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: for something. Was some kind of nickname, thurless name. But

758
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: they brought in Thorow Ravens Croft. The dub the song

759
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch, but he was uncredited,

760
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: apparently by accident in the opening of the movie, leading

761
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: many to believe that Boris Karloff had sung the song.

762
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: And Dr SEUs himself felt really bad about this and

763
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: called Thorle himself and profusely apologized, and he actually went

764
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: a step further. Dr Seuss wrote letters to columnists nationwide

765
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: telling him that it was thorough who provided the vocals

766
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 1: for the musical number you wanted to set the record straight,

767
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: which I think is beautiful. Um. There was apparently no

768
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: bad blood, because Thurle later worked on the animated versions

769
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: of Horton, Here's a Who, and Thetle Rax. Uh. He

770
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: was a deeply religious man who once said that his

771
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: lifelong dream was to record the entire Bible on tape,

772
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: but James Earl Jones quote beat him out, so he

773
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: got his revenge in a really great way. He appeared

774
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: on an episode of the TV variety show Donnie and Marie,

775
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: you know the Asben siblings, And on this episode it

776
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: featured guest stars from the first Star Wars movie, and

777
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: Thurrell was booked to provide the voice for Darth Vader,

778
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: which James Earl in the movie. So yeah, it's so good.

779
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: Did his own version of Darth Vader, which sounds awesome.

780
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Can you do raft? No? No, I didn't didn't with

781
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: that one prepared. Uh. He is really one of the

782
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: unheralded m v p s of Disney For people who

783
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: just know him as Tony that is false. I mean

784
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: not just all the theme park stuff you mentioned, but

785
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: he was in a singing group called the Mellow Men.

786
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: And not only did these guys get legitimate music industry gigs,

787
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: they backed up being Crosby like Jones Rosemary Clooney. They

788
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: also sang in Disney stuff like Pinocchio, Alison Wonderland Lady

789
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: in the Tramp Thurl was also Monstro the Whale. And

790
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: if that doesn't hew blow your mind. This dude was

791
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: a civilian navigator in World War Two. He served with

792
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: the US Air Transport Command spent five years flying courier

793
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: missions across the North and South Atlantic, including uh, Winston

794
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: Churchill and Bob Hope at points, so ferried Winston Churchill

795
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: across the Ocean, and he's sang for the Grunch. Wow.

796
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Quite a life. Uh And in case you're curious, Vacuum

797
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: is based on the Kirby Duel Santatronic eight. Uh. Toaster

798
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: is pretty much a simplified some beam model toaster and

799
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: radio was a distillation of the designs of a lot

800
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: of bake light radios. I just want to do a

801
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: quick distillation of the plot of this movie, just to

802
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: remind people how bizarre, at some points terrifying. It really is.

803
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: It's like Beauty and the Beast with more existential despair.

804
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: These objects are trapped alone in this desolate cottage in

805
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: the woods, awaiting the return of their beloved master, whom

806
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: they served with an almost cult like devotion. They've been

807
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: waiting years for him to return and bring their lives

808
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: meaning through his use, and upon seeing a for sale

809
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: sign posted in the front yard, they realize he's not

810
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: coming back. One of these appliances, the A C. As

811
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: we've mentioned, become so distressed that he explodes These surviving appliances,

812
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: none of whom like each other, it's worth noting, battle

813
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: the elements to seek out their master in the big city,

814
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: and then they get sent to a junkyard against their will,

815
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: where they witnessed a series of cars submit to their

816
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 1: deaths willingly while lamenting their old lives with a song

817
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: called worthless and Funnily enough, that junkyard scene was very

818
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: nearly cut from the movie at the request of one

819
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: of the producers, a guy by name of Donald Kushner. Uh.

820
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: Not only was it extremely anxiety producing, but they were

821
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: worried that the cars voluntarily heading to the crusher would

822
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: imply suicide. And another scene that he wanted cut was

823
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: the Nightmares scene where the toast there's dreaming of that

824
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: horrifying clown dresses a firefighter who just whispers ron, oh god,

825
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: cigar chomping exact the clown stays in the picture. Do

826
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: you remember that? Yeah, it's so upsetting. Yeah. But they

827
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: ended up leaving that scene at the Junkyard scene in

828
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 1: despite this producer's request to cut it. I don't really

829
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: know why. Certainly makes an impact, though. Take out the music,

830
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: Take us to the music, keep moving as you meditate

831
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: on that. We'll be right back with more too much

832
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: information after these messages. Now, folks, we must come to

833
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: the music of the Brave Little Toaster. In a little

834
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 1: segment I called the Brave Little Soundtrack. This was David Newman, Yes,

835
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: of those m Newman's, the most Oscar nominated family in

836
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: Hollywood history. Randy Thomas, Alfred David, Zeppo, Chico, Curly Larry said, ringo,

837
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: ringo Newman. Um. This was David's first animated score, really

838
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: his first big film score proper, and it took into

839
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: two thousand four to be released. This movie got so

840
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: little love. We'll get to that in a little later.

841
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: But David Newman studied violin performance along with composition, but

842
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: he initially thought he wanted to just be a studio musician.

843
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: He had done sessions with John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith other

844
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: iconic Hollywood composers, but he got the scoring bug. He

845
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: wanted to try his hand in composing. And it was

846
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: Hyperion co founder Willard Carroll, who had also at handed screenplay,

847
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: who passed David's demo along to Tom will Hide, who

848
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: arranged for David to get his first gig at Disney,

849
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: which was co scoring Tim Burton's first film for Disney,

850
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: Frank and Weeny And that's the movie that has the

851
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: kid who played um Pastion and the running story is

852
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: that right? Yeah? Fun fact about Hyperion co founder Willard Carroll,

853
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: he is recognized as having the world's largest privately held

854
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 1: collection of Wizard of Oz related memorabilia in the world,

855
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: and over a hundred thousand items. I respect that. I

856
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: was gonna say game respects game, but you thought, yeah, anyway,

857
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: Frank and Weeney is basically shelved because Disney justifiably looked

858
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: at it like what the is this sim is the

859
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: story cases you can't tell of France. Frankenstein retold with

860
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: a child's dog him after this, right, Yeah, But that

861
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: score essentially launched Newman's career. His next score was from

862
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: six is Critters, which is horror films recognized as a

863
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: classic of the weird little guys sub genre in horror,

864
00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 1: also typified by Gremlin's googlies. Um, you know s little Judd, Well,

865
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if they're weird little guys.

866
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: Lepricn Leprica be in there. David Cronenberg's The Brood has

867
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: weird little guys in it. The thing is like, they

868
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: have to be little and they have to be sinister,

869
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: and I would put Mac and me in weird little Guys. Yeah,

870
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: thank you. This has been the weird little Guys corner

871
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: of the Too Much Information soundtrack. Anyway, The Brave Little

872
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: Toaster was the first project of this scope that I

873
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: had ever done. Newman said, I was learning how much

874
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: music I could write a day, and it was hard work,

875
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: and then I ran out of time. I had to

876
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: get on a plane to Japan to track this. There

877
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: was eight minutes of solid music that goes from the

878
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: finish of the song Worthless, which is the aforementioned song

879
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: of the automobiles as they're being destroyed to the end

880
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: credits of the movie. I had to stay up fifty

881
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: hours to write and orchestrate the music, and I still

882
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: wasn't finished by the end of that twelve hour flight.

883
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: Whoa David would approach the film's score or by keeping

884
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: the characters in his mind as real people and not cartoons,

885
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: in order to create what he felt were authentic sounds

886
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 1: depicting moods and emotions. I didn't put this in there,

887
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,479
Speaker 1: but Jerry Rees has cited a repeated quote from David

888
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: Newman that, um, every moment of happiness is tinged with sadness,

889
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: at which I believe he paraphrises at one point as

890
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: behind every smile there is a tear in the movie

891
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: or just in life, in life, so he was like,

892
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: you have to get this core of sadness in there.

893
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: We didn't mention this earlier, but one of the people

894
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: who had a stake in this movie is the Japanese

895
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: electronics company t d K. And you can see their

896
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: logo not just in the credits, but in a p

897
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: o V shot of a city scape. There's a big

898
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: t d K logo that Jerry Rees animated in himself

899
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: as a thank you to this company for helping them

900
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: scrape together enough money to make this thing. But because

901
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 1: of that connection, they were able to record the soundtrack

902
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: to this movie with the New Japan Philharmonic in a

903
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: hall that included a German pipe organ he used for

904
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: the beam. It's just B movies, I think is the

905
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: calls and he he loves this score. Newman said it

906
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: was later, uh, one of the only scores where I've

907
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: been able to follow my muse. Yeah. I think he

908
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: said it was his favorite thing he's ever done. I

909
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: love that, um. But assisting him and kind of popping

910
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: in his interstitials to his score is Jordan's beloved Van

911
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: Dyke Parks, the songwriter and a ranger who notched credits

912
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 1: with The Beach Boys and Carly Simon before branching into

913
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: a few different films. But he is so much more

914
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: than that. I I love Van Dyke Parks so much.

915
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: He's one of my heroes. He's best known to me

916
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: as my beloved Brian Wilson's lyricssistant collaborator on his infamous

917
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: Smile project, a k a. His teenage Symphony to God

918
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: that took him thirty seven years to complete. According to

919
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: rock Mythology, Van Dyke Parks was introduced to Brian Wilson

920
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: at a party held at producer Terry Melcher's house. The

921
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: house that was later the one where Sharon Tate and

922
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: her friends were murdered by the Manson family and then

923
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: was later bought by Jeff Franklin, the guy who created

924
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: Full House. So quite a lineage there um. The more

925
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: realistic version is that Van Dyke was introduced to Brian

926
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: by David Crosby, who allegedly invited Van Dyke to join

927
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: the Birds, so did Frank Zappa. Frank Zappa invited him

928
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: to join the Mothers of Invention, but Van Dyke turned

929
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: it down because he quote didn't want to be screamed at,

930
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: which is with frank Zappa a very real threat he

931
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: was apparently this I really don't understand. Was also asked

932
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: to join Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at one point

933
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: and also declined this offer. Probably a wise move, but

934
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: is that is that up there with Nicky Hopkins turning

935
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 1: down the Kinks and Rolling Stones like how many who

936
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: has the record of most famous bands turned down, that's

937
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: gotta be up there, but it sounds like he kind

938
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: of dodged bullets across the boarder. Yeah. But Van Dyke

939
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: man incredibly interesting guy. He studied composition under the great

940
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: Aaron Copeland. Did you know that I didn't? Uh? And

941
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: his solo album song Cycles in nineteen sixty seven is

942
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: a really underappreciated album of baroque maximalist poppets. Was one

943
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: of the most expensive records ever made at the time

944
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: it was released, and it totally bombed, which to me

945
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: makes it even cooler. Uh. He has another solo album

946
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two is Discover America, which is really cool

947
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: for his explorations in the Caribbean music. He was also

948
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: reportedly one of the first people to ever own a

949
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: Moog synthesizer. Him and Mickey Dolan's of the Monkeys were

950
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: like the two first guys in l a um and

951
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: speaking of the Monkeys and marrying music with TV. In

952
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy Van Dyke became the head of the audio

953
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: visual department at Warner Brothers Records, which was the earliest

954
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: department of its kind to use videos to promote records.

955
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: But Van Dyke is no Stranger to animation scores. One

956
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: of us first professional gigs was arranging the track The

957
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 1: Bare Necessities for the Junkle Book in seven. Yeah. So

958
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: around the same time he was hanging out with Brian

959
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: Wilson in his sandbox writing heroes and villains and surfs up,

960
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: he was writing scores for Blue and Mowgli. That's one

961
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: of my favorite Disney songs, yoh yeah, and I Want

962
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: to Be Like You sung by Louis Yeo Yeah. Van

963
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: Dyke Parks is also the guy who convinced Frank Sinatra

964
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: to record Something Stupid, the duet with his daughter Nancy,

965
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: because Van Dyke's own brother had written that song. Anyhow,

966
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: Van Dyke also did music for Sesame Streets, follow That Bird, Peewee,

967
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: Herman's Christmas Special, songs for the eighties Popeye movie with

968
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: Robin Williams sung by Harry Nilsen, and you know in

969
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: Walk Hard the Dewey Cock Story, when Dewey's singing that

970
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: psychedelic Black Sheep song, which is like a parody of

971
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: Brian Wilson's Psychedelic Odyssey. Van Dyke wrote that himself. The

972
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,720
Speaker 1: guy who helped Brian Wilson write smile. That's amazing, right. Um,

973
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: he's done a bunch of acting. He plays the character

974
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: Jack Ray scene in an episode of Twin Peaks, and

975
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: not many people know he was a child actor as well.

976
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: He had a recurring role on The Honeymooners with Jackie

977
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: Gleason as Little Tommy Manicotti, the kid upstairs. You say that,

978
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of people know that. Not many people.

979
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: I can't do it. Not many people know that. Not

980
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people know that. Anyway. More to the point,

981
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: Van Dyke was tight with David Newman's cousin Randy Newman

982
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: from Crossing Paths as writers and arrangers for Warner Brothers

983
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: in the sixties. I love Van Dyke park so much.

984
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: I tried to interview him when I was at People

985
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: for the fiftieth anniversary of his song Cycle album, and

986
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: he sent me the most amazing email, turning me down.

987
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 1: I'm sure I have it somewhere. Print that out. Yeah,

988
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: my favorite Turndown letters. And I haven't been able to

989
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 1: verify this. Bono of you two wrote to Captain Beefheart,

990
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: and Captain Beefheart wrote back, dear Bongo, I don't know

991
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: who you are or what you want from me, but

992
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: don't call me again. I wonder if Bono has that

993
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 1: framed anyway. Parks was actually brought onto this project before Newman,

994
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: and Newman actually incorporated some of the themes that Parks

995
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: wrote for his songs into the score. What's your favorite

996
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: song from this? Oh, they're all pretty weird. I like

997
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: the Scrapyard one because it's the saddest and weirdest. That

998
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: was weird. I mean, the one that used to always

999
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: get stuck in my head as a kid was a

1000
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: City of Light, the kind of big, optimistic we're heading

1001
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: out on the road song in the beginning that used

1002
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: to always play in my Yeah, it's a B movie,

1003
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: has the whole like something from like a Vincent Price movie.

1004
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: I think it opens with that German pipe or again

1005
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: that's pipe for anyway. Toaster was screened at the Sundance

1006
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: Film Festival, and until two thousand ones, Waking Life was

1007
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: the only animated film to notch that particular honor. Reason

1008
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: in Uheve reddit A m A said, several judges told

1009
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: me hind Closed Doors that it had been considered for

1010
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: Best Film that year, but they were afraid that no

1011
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: one would take the Festival. Seriously if they awarded top

1012
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: prize to a cartoon, but they wanted me to know

1013
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: how much it was secretly admired. Unfortunately, the House of Mouse,

1014
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: there's it's ugly head. Uh. In R's words, the Disney Channel,

1015
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: which had bought the rights for Cable, purposefully moved their

1016
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: air dates forward so as to preempt and kill our

1017
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: theatrical release. This made theater is nervous a book in

1018
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: the film because it would have already aired, and as

1019
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: a result, it's intended theatrical distributor backed out. I mean,

1020
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: it's so absurd. And and he talks about getting a lawyer. Um,

1021
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: he met a lawyer at Sundance and this guy apparently

1022
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: I forget this guy's name, but he's gone on to

1023
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: become a very big entertainment lawyer. And the guy was like, yeah,

1024
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 1: I don't really understand why Disney is doing this, because

1025
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: you'd think that having something opening in theaters, you're damaging

1026
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: it by putting it on TV before it goes out

1027
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: of you have more money. Anyway, This will all make

1028
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: sense when you hear the next name that I'm about

1029
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: to mention, which is Enemy of the Pod Jeffrey Katzenberg.

1030
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Cattensberg could kill me, destroy my career with a gesture.

1031
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: But one thing he'll never do is fight me physically,

1032
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: which I will do. Um if he tanks my career,

1033
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: he at least owes me that much anyway. In this

1034
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: YouTube interview from this year, Reese said, I called Jeffrey

1035
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: Katzenberg and talked to him about it, this whole cluster

1036
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: and quote, and he's like, hey, good luck, kid, We

1037
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: don't want to stand in your way, and Rees says,

1038
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: and I said, but you are click yeah. The Disney

1039
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: chickenery also resulted in the movie being ineligible for OSCAR

1040
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: nominations such as Best Original Score and Best which it

1041
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: almost certainly would have been nominated anyway. By Hyperion was

1042
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: able to self distribute the film to the art house

1043
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: theater circuit, including a successful stint at the Film Forum

1044
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: in New York maybe another animated film that got to

1045
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: run out of the the Film Forum until like Beauty. The

1046
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: Beasts loved this film, including like big name legacy New

1047
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: York publication critics David Edelstein at The New York Post,

1048
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: Stephen Holden in The New York Times, David Denby in

1049
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: the New York are all wrote glowing reviews of this film.

1050
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: A year later, it lands on home video via Disney,

1051
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: where it became a big success in spite of the

1052
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: fact that, as Rees recalls, they put no promotional muscle

1053
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: behind it. And you can see this in the archival

1054
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: ads stuff that came out around the same time. It's like, see, uh,

1055
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: you know whatever else on home video Proud to own

1056
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: nowhere Brave Little Toaster gets to mention, and Rees said

1057
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: he used to go into video stores in l A

1058
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: And just surreptitiously moved the Brave Little Toaster to the

1059
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: front of the racks. As a former Blockbuster employee, I

1060
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: can appreciate deeply the film is still unavailable on streaming.

1061
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: And here's what really pisces me off. After all of

1062
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: the work that they put into this thing, the home

1063
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: video dubs that you can get are ripped from the

1064
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: original print of the film that went to all the festivals,

1065
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: went to all the theaters, which means it looks like

1066
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: garbage because you're getting a VHS dub of a reel

1067
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: that has been through the ringer, and then you're getting

1068
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: a DVD transfer of that of that VHS. So it

1069
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: looks like, yeah, so you may be wondering, why can't

1070
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: I see this original film on Disney Plus or any

1071
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: of the other streamers, But I can see two films

1072
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: called The Brave Little Toaster to the Rescue and The

1073
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: Brave Little Toaster Goes to in Mars. I'll tell you

1074
01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: why these two movies were made concurrently a first time

1075
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: director named Robert C. Ramirez, who also was responsible for

1076
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: them recording the music and all the voice dubbing. I

1077
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: have no idea how they dragooned this guy into being

1078
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: like you are handling this entire but he probably did

1079
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: the craft services table as well, like Jesus Christ. I

1080
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: watched the interviews with him around the same time, like

1081
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: in the studio trying to like get all this happening,

1082
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,479
Speaker 1: and he looks like a husk of a man. He's

1083
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: bravely trying. He's putting very he's trying to put a

1084
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: very brave face on it. He's like, well, you know,

1085
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: you get to learn a lot, which is what you

1086
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: have to do in this. But yeah, it looks like

1087
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: there's someone like Jeffrey katzenbergers holding a pistol on him

1088
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: outside of frame, but among other things. You can hear

1089
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: the original Herman's Hermit's singer Peter Noon sing I'm into

1090
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 1: something good that's exciting for me. Yeah. Do you know

1091
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: that's an early Carol King song song Love Carol King

1092
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: Um bravet Toaster Goes to Mars is actually based on

1093
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: a Dish story, but Rescue is not. Uh in that

1094
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: Reddit m A or maybe in their cow State interview,

1095
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: neither Reason nor Oliver have watched the finish film, But

1096
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: funny enough, they did actually recruit a lot of Coast

1097
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 1: talent for those sequels. Five Ish Finkle is in there,

1098
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: as is Alan King and and DeForrest Kelly better known

1099
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: as Bones McCoy from the original Star Trek. He's the

1100
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: voice of the Viking lander in the Mars sequel. I

1101
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: love that so much. Anyway, Rees explained in this Reddit

1102
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: A m A that he had started work on his

1103
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: own sequel in two thousand nine. We've been picking up

1104
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: on the where the original story left off. But he

1105
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: says that as he was basically sussing out the rights issues,

1106
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: the people who owned the rights at least who he

1107
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: thought did, actually didn't, and that they were subsequently outbid

1108
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: by another company now same year. He does that a

1109
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: m A. That company, Waterman Entertainment, the company behind Alvin

1110
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: and the Chipmunks, and now that they had acquired the

1111
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: rights and we're planning a remake of The Brave Little

1112
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: Toaster that, like Alvin, would have been a blend of

1113
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: live action in c G. I like that New Chippendale Dale.

1114
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: But there's some concept art out there by a guy

1115
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: named Alan Bettino, including a character named Smartphone. I wanted

1116
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: to stay retro. I don't want to see a smart phone.

1117
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: He told a YouTuber by the name of Veil ski

1118
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: Bum that that this art was indeed commissioned by the

1119
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 1: Waterman Company, who quote secured the rights and developed the project,

1120
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: but ultimately they pitched the round Town and couldn't drum

1121
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: up funding. I think it was mostly a timing thing,

1122
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: and Waterman the company actually shut down and the state

1123
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: of the rights is currently up in the air, where

1124
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 1: I have a funny feeling it is likely to stay.

1125
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Catsenberg A tone for your sins by the rights.

1126
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: Give it to Jerry Rees Van Dyck Parks email me back.

1127
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: Aside from standing on its own as an artistic achievement,

1128
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: the Brave Little Toaster is a very important footnote in

1129
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,919
Speaker 1: animation history because so many of these people have gone

1130
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: on to shape the entire landscape of the medium for

1131
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: the past thirty years. Ranft he became a script supervisor

1132
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: at Pixar, developed the stories for Tory Story and Monsters, Inc.

1133
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: Voiced characters in their various films before his untimely death

1134
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. Animators Glenn Keene, Kirk Wise and

1135
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: Kevin Lima went on to animate and co direct some

1136
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: of the biggest films of the Disney Renaissance, like The

1137
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocaconis, The Hunchback

1138
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: of Notre Dame, and Tarzan. Effects animator Mark Dindal directed

1139
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: The Emperor's New Groove, one of my favorites. I love

1140
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: how much you love that movie and I've never seen

1141
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 1: it once. Oh, dude, rules, it's so good. It's John

1142
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: Goodman and David Spade and Patrick Warburton and Eartha Kit

1143
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: Like if I don't sell if I don't sell you

1144
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: on that, nothing will. I mean, this is just so.

1145
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 1: This was after I checked out of Disney, but before

1146
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: I started checking out, like the Pixar stuff, and well,

1147
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: I still had a little sister and so that's how

1148
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 1: stuff and Emperor's new group still holds up. It's incredible anyway. Uh.

1149
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: He also did Chicken Little Sure. Character designer Rob Minkoff

1150
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:29,919
Speaker 1: directed The Lion King whoa to Stewart Little Movies and

1151
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: Mr Peabody and Sherman. You know, Herman's Hermits was supposed

1152
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: to be named Sherman and the Hermit's after Mr Pabody

1153
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: and Sherman, but they were printing up business cards and

1154
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: they accidentally there was a typo and they missed the

1155
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: s on Sherman. So they just left this Herman's Hermits

1156
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 1: because they don't want to pay it to have him reprinted. Huh,

1157
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: there you go. Okay, all right, I'd like that. Good. Yeah,

1158
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually bringing it all back. I mean, I'm

1159
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: been I'm giving dead air to this because of how

1160
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: how odd I am. In fact, this show is about

1161
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: making connections and yeah, no, well done. Um. David Newman

1162
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: has obviously gone on to continue in his family's legacy

1163
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: as an in demand composer. He went to pick up

1164
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: an Oscar nom for Fantasia though Anastasia Anastasia. Oh yeah,

1165
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: obviously that movie rules that was my that's my Emperor's

1166
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: new groove. I but my sister was that all the time. Yeah,

1167
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: there's a new book on him that just came out.

1168
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: I think we gotta do we gotta do a blue thing.

1169
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:47,479
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Land Before Time watched that. Jerry Rees. Uh, Look,

1170
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: I make no bones about the fact I love Jerry Rees.

1171
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: He's had a slightly less auspicious career. He directed the

1172
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: Neil Simon penned The Marrying Man, which was a flop,

1173
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: and he did serve as an animation producer on the

1174
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: original Space Jam. But he has kind of transitioned into

1175
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: directing films for UM Disney theme parks. He's done a

1176
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, like the short films that are at

1177
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: the theme parks when you go on different rides UM.

1178
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 1: One of them was an award winning documentary called Back

1179
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 1: to Neverland, which starts Robin Williams and Walter Cronkite. Jerry

1180
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: Reads also did the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular, So if

1181
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: nothing else, he has Brave Little Toaster and the Indiana

1182
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: Jones Stunt Spectacular. That man can rest on those laurels.

1183
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: That sounds all It sounds like he said, I mean

1184
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: Neil Simon's one of my heroes, Walter Cronkite, Robert Williams

1185
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,759
Speaker 1: since cool life to me. He also has not aged.

1186
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: He still looks just like a little elfin man and

1187
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: I want to hang out with him so much. Jerry is,

1188
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: I'll take you to dinner, come to San Francisco. You've

1189
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: seem like a fun guy, really sweet guy. We can

1190
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: talk to it about Jeffrey Katzenberg. As I mentioned before,

1191
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: he has become the biggest steward of this film's legacy online.

1192
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: He did this Reddit a m A. He does interviews

1193
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: about it with YouTubers and you dropped. Jerry reads a

1194
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: line He'll talk to you about Brave Wilt Toaster a

1195
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: few of the quotes that he has given from the

1196
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: past thirty years that really sum up this film. So

1197
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to take some artistic liberty and edit together

1198
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: some quotes from the A m A. And the liner

1199
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 1: notes to the Soundtracker reissue that I really think some

1200
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: of the character of this film, he said. I think

1201
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: the only reason I was able to make that tone

1202
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,480
Speaker 1: of a movie was because we were off the studio grid.

1203
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: No studio would have let us do that. When you

1204
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: got on the inside of Disney, and you talked to

1205
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: the veteran animators, not one of them would tell you

1206
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: that they made a kid's movie. They made these movies

1207
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: for themselves and wanted everyone to have a good time

1208
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: together in the theater. I figured that these characters, as

1209
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: charming as they were, we're dealing with an ominous world.

1210
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: Their fear of being obsolete rings true for all of

1211
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: us at one time or another as well. So many

1212
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: anim ated features at the time. We're kids e and

1213
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: talked down to you. But it was natural for me

1214
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: to say that the cartoon characters could be irreverend yet

1215
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: also be emotionally genuine. We wanted to go for the

1216
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: essence of character animation in the truest Disney tradition, moving

1217
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 1: the drawings as well as the audience. I can't think

1218
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: of a better epitaph for this movie than that I

1219
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: don't want to encourage anyone to pirate anything under the

1220
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: ages of my heart, but it seems to be your

1221
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: only option. So you know, if you want to see

1222
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: a film that it was made with an incredible amount

1223
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: of heart and pathos and skill, skill and love, go

1224
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: track down Brave Little Toaster tweet at Jerry Rees tell

1225
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: him how much he loved it. He'll appreciate it and tweet.

1226
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: Jeffery Kassenberg tweeted Jeffrey Kasenberg and Vandyke Parks too and

1227
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: Van Dyke Parks. He's very active on Twitter. Folks. Thank

1228
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: you for listening. This has been too much information. I'm

1229
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan run Talk. We'll catch you

1230
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 1: next time. Too Much Information was a production of I

1231
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and

1232
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: Jordan run Talk. The supervising producer is Mike John's. The

1233
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 1: show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan run Talk

1234
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: and Alex Hegel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and

1235
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard,

1236
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,440
Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts

1237
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: and I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

1238
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,799
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.