Speaker 1: On my high school team. We have five guys make
Speaker 1: the NBA. We head the county Rocket gets some mecca
Speaker 1: of basketball. Here are those who come before us, upon
Speaker 1: whose shoulders we stand. It's nothing that you can do
Speaker 1: to stop the competitive and that's just in the water.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a special quarantine edition. We got a
Speaker 1: real special guys. What's up with your Brodie with the
Speaker 1: virtual handshake, I'm gonna tell you something that I never
Speaker 1: told no about it. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to a special Quarantine edition of All the Smoke with
Speaker 1: my brethren. Stephen Jesse Jackson. What's up? What's up? What's up?
Speaker 1: My HERMANO? How you doing? Bro? You're good? I'm good man,
Speaker 1: just chilling man. I'm I'm excited about this episode. But
Speaker 1: you tell you all the words out of my mouth.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, I got, I got, I gotta because you
Speaker 1: know it's some it's a big broad mind. You know
Speaker 1: we've we've played against each other off the NBA court,
Speaker 1: but we haven't had a begging session. The last couple
Speaker 1: of segments I have I'm gonna be on this banking segment,
Speaker 1: no question. Bring him on in, Bring him on in,
Speaker 1: man without further Ado. One of my favorite players growing up,
Speaker 1: Man Killer. Let's welcome Penny Hardaway Man. Thank you for
Speaker 1: your time and joining us today. Yeah, Man, appreciate you're
Speaker 1: having me on here. Man, my phone was going up now,
Speaker 1: that's all we're trying to do. Were trying to help you. So,
Speaker 1: fifteen year career, four time All Star, three time All NBA.
Speaker 1: You were a draft day trade Orlando picks see web,
Speaker 1: Golden State picks you. You're swapped out and your head
Speaker 1: to Orlando. Talk to us about that. I know that
Speaker 1: the story goes a little bit back or you and
Speaker 1: Shock were shooting Blue Trips, which is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite movies. Shaq was blown away by how good you were.
Speaker 1: He says he didn't know who you were before, but
Speaker 1: you know how Shock be talking. So we don't know
Speaker 1: if that's true or not, but he said, once y'all
Speaker 1: started fel he was absolutely blown away. Tod Orlando, they
Speaker 1: needed to get you, Ortlanta felt like they needed to
Speaker 1: take team Shock up. But see Webb. Shock obviously got
Speaker 1: what he wanted though, because you were drafted, Like I said,
Speaker 1: Golden State traded Orlando. What was it like going to
Speaker 1: Orlando with the with the new team and play with
Speaker 1: big fella. Well, you know what's so weird is you
Speaker 1: said that he took the words out of my mouth.
Speaker 1: You know how shock is. Shaq knew me when I
Speaker 1: was a sophomore in college. We played on the Olympic
Speaker 1: Olympic Festival and UH in Minnesota that summer, the summer
Speaker 1: before I I came out. But Shock, like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, you like to make the stories sound a
Speaker 1: lot better. That's my dude. What did was when I
Speaker 1: got the Blue Chips though and started doing the movie.
Speaker 1: It was weird because I was having to try out
Speaker 1: for teams on the weekends like fly Out and fly Back.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, when I go to Orlando, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: rip the ship up. But all summer I got an
Speaker 1: audition with Shack, so I didn't shoot the ball. I
Speaker 1: passed them up with the ball. Every time I was
Speaker 1: three dropping a toe with two people on him, I
Speaker 1: was giving them the ball every time just to say, hey, dog,
Speaker 1: this is exactly what you're gonna get if you bring
Speaker 1: me to your team in Orlando. And that's what happened. Man,
Speaker 1: And then getting down there obviously had a young squad
Speaker 1: man Um that was very talented and went to the
Speaker 1: finals and only our second year. But the audition to
Speaker 1: get there, I knew exactly what I was doing to
Speaker 1: get as big as their ball. I knew that he
Speaker 1: wanted the ball. And we're definitely gonna touch that. We
Speaker 1: want to backtrack and take our time to get to
Speaker 1: So how are you holding up? Coronavirus? You know everybody's
Speaker 1: in quarantine. How are you and the family doing? Man?
Speaker 1: Everybody's good. Man. I work out every morning. I try
Speaker 1: to get up every morning early, work out, and then
Speaker 1: I'm back on the couch, become a couch potato. Now
Speaker 1: I'll go to the facility. Uh, there's no one there
Speaker 1: but me. I work out. I'll come right back home. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I get on the phone and start calling recruits,
Speaker 1: FaceTime recruits, and know what I gotta do. The job
Speaker 1: can stop. What has that process been like though? I mean,
Speaker 1: you had what touch on it, but you had extreme
Speaker 1: As soon as you touch the coaching scene, you had success.
Speaker 1: But five years, five titles? Uh do your little high
Speaker 1: school run? Uh? We'll talk about you got to college.
Speaker 1: But what has that process been like? Did you ever
Speaker 1: see yourself turning into one of these coaches and not
Speaker 1: here recruiting these kids and and doing what you're doing
Speaker 1: on the highest level. You know, it only hit me
Speaker 1: when I retired, because when I was retiring, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I might go to t N T,
Speaker 1: I might go to ESPN. Seriously, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: like I might just play golf and then do that
Speaker 1: in the fall. Uh, and just kind of enjoy life.
Speaker 1: And if you've seen the story, I had a buddy
Speaker 1: that had colon cancer, was dying from cancer, was a
Speaker 1: coach of my middle school team in my neighborhood. Joined
Speaker 1: with him and started coaching, and really kind of got
Speaker 1: a boat from that situation, and then moved from there
Speaker 1: to a you, a you to high school and never
Speaker 1: once really thought about college until maybe a couple of
Speaker 1: years before it really happened because I was really happy
Speaker 1: with what I was doing with the kids in high school.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad it happened with college because you know,
Speaker 1: you coach, you coached the kids that I was able
Speaker 1: to coach in the Alan Obinson game, Boogie Ellis and uh,
Speaker 1: I knew I knew this kid was gonna be good.
Speaker 1: But but being in college and how difficult has it been,
Speaker 1: you know, being able to have the experience with these
Speaker 1: young kids, but also the way this season has gone.
Speaker 1: You know, the season and stop y'all were able to finish,
Speaker 1: like even even with the beginning this season with with
Speaker 1: the star player, you had like talk about all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know when I saw that, I saw the AI
Speaker 1: game last year and I saw you with the young fellas,
Speaker 1: and I know one thing you don't get with stat
Speaker 1: he's gonna keep it one hundred And I know he
Speaker 1: was keeping one hundred with him and I saw a
Speaker 1: bookie there and I was hoping that he could kind
Speaker 1: of get under you and AI and kind of get
Speaker 1: some questions. He had workaholic man, and to me, he
Speaker 1: came in with high expectations and he put a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure on himself. And that's what a lot of
Speaker 1: kids do because everybody wants to be one and done.
Speaker 1: And he's a terrific kid. He's all. He was our
Speaker 1: hardest worker this year and the season didn't go as playing,
Speaker 1: but guess what he didn't with He kept grinding. He
Speaker 1: never stopped his work. And that's what I love about
Speaker 1: this this level because sometimes you gotta get out the
Speaker 1: mud is it's not gonna happen with you coming in
Speaker 1: one year and then going in and going on to
Speaker 1: the next level. It's not as easy as a lot
Speaker 1: It's not as easy as a lot of people trying
Speaker 1: to make it seem. So. Yeah, it's been fun for
Speaker 1: me this experience because I'm feeding back me, Mike and
Speaker 1: me and microre feeding back into the kids everything that
Speaker 1: we've learned. I feel like it's a cheat sheet before
Speaker 1: they get to that next level if they're capable of
Speaker 1: playing on that level. Absolutely talked us a little bit
Speaker 1: about losing Wiseman with the n C Double A rule
Speaker 1: violation and how weak we all think the n C
Speaker 1: double as Jack didn't even Jack said the n C
Speaker 1: Double A league. But talk to us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that process, because that kid was a monster from
Speaker 1: the beginning. You got a little taste of them. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you got to see a lot in practice, and
Speaker 1: then the n C Double A suspends them over some bullshit. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: you know what, that was crushing because James is just
Speaker 1: pretty much an innocent Bostandard. There was nothing malicious with
Speaker 1: that that happened. But obviously they can paint a picture
Speaker 1: how they however they want to paint it. And for
Speaker 1: that kid to have to sit out twelve games, uh,
Speaker 1: was devastating. Obviously, he fought it when it got a
Speaker 1: restraining order from the court to be able to fight
Speaker 1: the first three games until they kind of gave him,
Speaker 1: um what his ruling was going to be. And you know,
Speaker 1: they actually pushed him out of college. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's what I don't think that's what it should be about.
Speaker 1: I don't think you put kids in the position to
Speaker 1: try to choose whether to stay in school or leave
Speaker 1: school while they're already there, because you're you're doing things unfairly.
Speaker 1: And that's all just standing on that. But I had
Speaker 1: his back, um, and when he left, man, it crushed
Speaker 1: me because I knew that he needed to be there,
Speaker 1: he wanted to be there. But just it was just
Speaker 1: two overwomen with what happened with the n c A. Man,
Speaker 1: and I know you can't speak on it because you
Speaker 1: worked somewhat you know, closely with the nt double A
Speaker 1: being a coach, but you know from an outside looking
Speaker 1: and I just think they're destroying college sports, you know,
Speaker 1: with the way they're making so much money off these kids,
Speaker 1: not barely giving them anything back. They're starting to try
Speaker 1: to make them pay a little bit here and there,
Speaker 1: but just really making it unfair. And now you're seeing
Speaker 1: kids make that jump. You know, kids are going straight
Speaker 1: to the G League. Now, kids are going overseas. Now
Speaker 1: they're avoiding college. And you know, to me, I had
Speaker 1: a college was the best time of my life outside
Speaker 1: of having children. I was blessed to play, you know,
Speaker 1: fourteen years in the NBA, but college was a blast
Speaker 1: for me. I'm sure you can speak on how fun
Speaker 1: college was, but the n C double as sucking that
Speaker 1: up for kids with their outdated slave mentality rules. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's funny that you say that because college was
Speaker 1: the best time of my life. And I know, people go, man,
Speaker 1: you made hundreds of millions of dollars, How can you
Speaker 1: say college was the best. College was the best time
Speaker 1: of my life. It was because everything was so pure
Speaker 1: and you were you were with a group of a
Speaker 1: group of guys that are all on that same page
Speaker 1: and pushing towards the same goal. And the fan base,
Speaker 1: the college fans are just amazing. And and if you're
Speaker 1: blessed enough to be on a team good enough to
Speaker 1: make a run in the n c A tournament. That
Speaker 1: makes it even better. But I understand why kids are
Speaker 1: choosing other avenues now because it is very tough on
Speaker 1: this level. They're making it extremely tough. So it gears.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the Hall of Fame class with Kobe,
Speaker 1: Duncan and KG arguably one of the greatest inductee classes
Speaker 1: we've seen. What are your thoughts on that class? Man?
Speaker 1: Just phenomenal, man. Unfortunately what happened to code uh still
Speaker 1: almost like shocking to me on a daily basis to
Speaker 1: understood that, understand that happened. But to have that class
Speaker 1: with Casey and and Tim and Kobe going together, man,
Speaker 1: that's that is that is phenomenal. Man. I know it's
Speaker 1: gonna be very emotional on a lot of levels that day,
Speaker 1: and guys that are going in, like Katie and Tim,
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to, you know, lock in on, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is our moment. But when Kobe's opportunity comes, man,
Speaker 1: it's just not gonna be a dry on, you know,
Speaker 1: or nothing. No matter if you respected him from the
Speaker 1: point of view who he was as a fierce competitor
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, you know that that dude was
Speaker 1: just unreal, and to not be here to even receive that,
Speaker 1: you know he wanted to be. He would have that
Speaker 1: would have been he would have had a smile so
Speaker 1: big on that job, yeah, sir, and to see that
Speaker 1: not having this crushing yes, you know, he would have
Speaker 1: had an amazing speech ready for every one. Reflect a
Speaker 1: little bit on Kobe as a competitor. Did you get
Speaker 1: a chance to know him well honor off the court?
Speaker 1: What was your experience like with him and against him?
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I have a weird Kobe story,
Speaker 1: and I have to say to two of them really quickly.
Speaker 1: I met Kobe when Kobe was in high school and
Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was. Obviously, I'm the man
Speaker 1: in in in the NBA. I got a little penny commercials,
Speaker 1: I got my signature shoe, I'm on top of the world,
Speaker 1: on first team All NBA. And he came to me
Speaker 1: after a Sixers game and asked me what he should
Speaker 1: do on going to the draft, And man, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I had never known who Kobe was. And I felt
Speaker 1: so bad afterwards because he asked me should he go?
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, he was like, well should
Speaker 1: I go? And I said, I don't know, young fellow,
Speaker 1: you might even go ahead and go to college. This
Speaker 1: is Kobe Bryant. And he was like, well, they're telling
Speaker 1: me I'm gonna be a lottery I said, well, they're
Speaker 1: telling you're gonna be lottery dog, then you should go.
Speaker 1: I changed that because I didn't I didn't know who
Speaker 1: he was. And a couple of years later he's in
Speaker 1: in the in the league. He never forgot that conversation.
Speaker 1: Of course, not Magic Johnson. Matthew Johnson has All Star
Speaker 1: Game in the summer. Everybody knew those, those Magic Johnson
Speaker 1: games and Chriss Midsummer Night, Summer Night. So I'm in
Speaker 1: that game and Kobe calls me out. I said, oh,
Speaker 1: ship this dude. Remember he remembered that day in Philly.
Speaker 1: And I just didn't take it like he did obviously.
Speaker 1: But all he needs is a little a little something
Speaker 1: to just get that that that momentum going on. I'm
Speaker 1: getting you back. You didn't believe in me, You didn't
Speaker 1: you didn't know me. And we went at each other
Speaker 1: in the in the Magic game. Obviously he was a
Speaker 1: young pup. I got the best of him in that game,
Speaker 1: but he did come to me and go. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to learn. I want to be the greatest.
Speaker 1: And I knew then though that he was just gonna
Speaker 1: be unstoppable and unbelievable moving forward. But yeah, he that's
Speaker 1: my Kobe stories right there. I love it. And that's
Speaker 1: how he looks. He looks for a little ship like
Speaker 1: that little chick up something to add to his like okay, yes, okay, Hardaway,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see you in a couple of years. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna catch up with you. He definitely wrote my name
Speaker 1: down when en up the sixest game, like I gotta
Speaker 1: get this, dude, that's funny. Jordan returned back to the
Speaker 1: game in n Did you want to play the Bulls
Speaker 1: in the playoffs when he returned, Man, you know, the
Speaker 1: biggest thing was when m first came back and I
Speaker 1: was like, he's back, Like I wanted to play against
Speaker 1: m J. And then he retired before I came into
Speaker 1: the league. Then when I came into the league, he
Speaker 1: comes back. So my first mindset is, damn MJ's back.
Speaker 1: And then I snapped out of this here I stopped
Speaker 1: real kick like you gotta go in, you got because
Speaker 1: this is my favorite player along with Matt Matthew was
Speaker 1: number one, but MJ who who didn't like MJ. So
Speaker 1: when he came back and we played them for the
Speaker 1: first time, I got the best to him and pipped
Speaker 1: that game. I think I had thirty six and I
Speaker 1: was so I didn't even sleep that night because I
Speaker 1: was so hyping Ridy to play that game and we won.
Speaker 1: But I think I only pissed him off. I pissed
Speaker 1: them all, sure, But it was early in the season
Speaker 1: and we were one of the first teams and early
Speaker 1: in the season to beat that sevent team. We were
Speaker 1: wanting to ten and that's the game I had thirty six.
Speaker 1: Shack didn't play that game because he was hurt, and
Speaker 1: I remember that game very well. But as far as
Speaker 1: the bulls man it was, it was really you had
Speaker 1: to get your sleep the night before, honestly, like moving
Speaker 1: forward if you're gonna play those guys, because they were
Speaker 1: just relentless. They pulled out every one of your weaknesses.
Speaker 1: If you weren't a baller, you want a jump shooter,
Speaker 1: they were gonna make you shoo jump shots if you
Speaker 1: try to get to the basket. They were plugging the paint.
Speaker 1: They just were not going to give you your strength
Speaker 1: and what you really love to do, and they were
Speaker 1: just they were relentless at all times on what they
Speaker 1: needed to do, and then offensively they ran the triangle
Speaker 1: to perfection. So to me as a competitor, I enjoyed
Speaker 1: every game against them because you knew you were playing
Speaker 1: against greatness. Now looking back on it, because like I said,
Speaker 1: I think obviously, once you get in in your career
Speaker 1: and you're like a hamster in the will you keep looking,
Speaker 1: you keep moving forward. Looking back on that and how
Speaker 1: long ago was and putting yourself back in in in
Speaker 1: that young Penny, what are your thoughts kind of seen
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, Because we talked about it before, like
Speaker 1: social media now, fans are so spoiled they get to
Speaker 1: see everything, I mean, from from motherfucking tin your shoes
Speaker 1: to go into the bathroom. Back back then you didn't
Speaker 1: get to see no behind the scenes. And and like
Speaker 1: you said, Jordan was under your favorite players, one of
Speaker 1: me and Jack's favorite players. What are your thoughts kind
Speaker 1: of looking back and seeing the ins and ounced what
Speaker 1: was going on with that team? Two things spit out
Speaker 1: right away when I looked at that. The first thing
Speaker 1: was how they treated the GM the boys was hard.
Speaker 1: Bro didn't want his motherfucker right. I mean even this,
Speaker 1: I don't know who he had the balls to talk
Speaker 1: to their TM the way that those boys did. First
Speaker 1: of all, right, right, only only a hand full of
Speaker 1: players could even talk like that period to upper management.
Speaker 1: And secondly, I was trying to figure ot where the
Speaker 1: hell I was when Scotty set out the first part
Speaker 1: of that season. I'm like, what was I doing and
Speaker 1: not noticed? I didn't remember that Scotty set out the
Speaker 1: first part of the season and what was going on
Speaker 1: with the whole deal? I mean, my prime I'm playing.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I don't I look it then and go then,
Speaker 1: why don't I remember Scotty not having served me in
Speaker 1: the summer and having surged you during the season and
Speaker 1: having a contract dispute. I don't know why I don't
Speaker 1: remember that because you were too busy. But some people
Speaker 1: ass I didn't remember that. But I thought that was
Speaker 1: kind of I thought that was kind of messed up though,
Speaker 1: because Scotty was he was a moment. Wasn't both both ends.
Speaker 1: Let's take it back to where it got started. Uh,
Speaker 1: born and raised in Memphis, playing outside of them hot
Speaker 1: to ask basketball courts. What man, what kind of competitor
Speaker 1: and mental approach to that? Installing you at at an
Speaker 1: early age. They don't know about that Midwest committed penny.
Speaker 1: They don't know about that emitted it out here. Hey man,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about you losing eight pounds a day. Eight
Speaker 1: I was already skinny as hell, so I didn't need
Speaker 1: to lose I go out there. My shorts were fit
Speaker 1: by the time of hoop Sesson was over my shorts
Speaker 1: and fit fall. Yeah. Yeah, but but I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody wants to stamp their hood or stamp
Speaker 1: their city, Like, hey man, you had to get it
Speaker 1: when you went to this court of that court, but
Speaker 1: got blessed because the city of Memphis, on every street, corner,
Speaker 1: every part, it was like no files, it was you
Speaker 1: had to who if you weren't proving, you couldn't get
Speaker 1: on the court. And a lot of times with the
Speaker 1: older cats, you have to pass the ball, a lot
Speaker 1: of play defense and get that get that ball to
Speaker 1: the people that was really doing it. And so you
Speaker 1: got your chance. So you have to build that reputation
Speaker 1: with the guys before they even allowed you start shooting.
Speaker 1: And that made me tougher. That made me Misslely tougher
Speaker 1: physically tougher because there were no files and you had
Speaker 1: to defend and that that era it was. I'm so
Speaker 1: thankful that I grew up in that type of error.
Speaker 1: Though decorated high school career. Your senior ear you average
Speaker 1: thirty six tens, ass, four steals and two blocks. You
Speaker 1: did everything. You were named Parade magazine Player of the Year.
Speaker 1: What went into your college decision? Did you not want
Speaker 1: to go far away? Did you what was your thoughts
Speaker 1: on just basically going right up the street at the
Speaker 1: time it was Memphis State, correct now Memphis. Yeah. First
Speaker 1: of all, I had my all my relatives were doing
Speaker 1: the scorebooks, so they made me look good. So if
Speaker 1: if I didn't have, they still put it down. But no,
Speaker 1: But honestly, I think just I fell in love with
Speaker 1: the teams in the eighties, the Memphis Tigers in the eighties,
Speaker 1: the late eighties, like when I was in eighth ninth grade,
Speaker 1: they made that run when they went to the Final
Speaker 1: four a couple of years. They had an unbelievable team,
Speaker 1: and I kind of fell in love with that team
Speaker 1: and I wanted to go there from like eighth grade
Speaker 1: all the way up. I kind of fell in love
Speaker 1: with that group and it didn't matter how how good
Speaker 1: or bad the team was. When I when I knew
Speaker 1: I was gonna come out, I just said, man, I
Speaker 1: want to do this for the city, stay home and
Speaker 1: then try to do it myself like those guys did.
Speaker 1: And my team was all Memphis guys. We had Memphis,
Speaker 1: and we went one game from the final four. We
Speaker 1: lost in Cincinnati and the least eight. They went on
Speaker 1: to play Michigan, Michigan. That's when Chris Berber called the
Speaker 1: time out against North Carolina. That whole thing. But honestly,
Speaker 1: the season came in because I wanted to stay home
Speaker 1: and make a difference. I felt like if I if
Speaker 1: I stayed home, that I would make a difference for
Speaker 1: my city. I love that. So it doesn't get off
Speaker 1: to the way you're playing. Uh, you have to sit out,
Speaker 1: do the academic problems. While you're sitting out, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're held at gunpoint, shot in the foot. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that changed your perspective on everything. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: that rough start. Like you said, your whole thing was
Speaker 1: to put off for the city, give back to the
Speaker 1: city better the place you get there, it doesn't start
Speaker 1: the way you wanted to to, and then on top
Speaker 1: of that you get robbed. Yeah, I think going back
Speaker 1: to men to eight, I was never a kid that
Speaker 1: couldn't do work. I would never a kid that that
Speaker 1: didn't really focus in the classroom. My senior year, I
Speaker 1: got caught up with the wrong group, and everybody understand that.
Speaker 1: I got caught up with the wrong with their wrong cats,
Speaker 1: and started really hanging out and doing things that you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to be doing, things that I've been taught
Speaker 1: not to do, and I kind of lit school, kind
Speaker 1: of bypassed, like, oh, I'll get to that, but I'm
Speaker 1: in the streets. So that's the same thing that happened
Speaker 1: to me my fresh year. I got in, I didn't
Speaker 1: pass a c T. I didn't take it seriously, and
Speaker 1: then when I didn't pass, I went to school and
Speaker 1: my freshman year kind of hanging out with them saying
Speaker 1: guys a little bit got me caught up in a
Speaker 1: situation where I got robbed and then I got shot.
Speaker 1: So that's the side of me. From that point. It
Speaker 1: was like, all right, dude, you gotta make your mind
Speaker 1: up on do you want to do this side or
Speaker 1: do you want to do this side? And that bullet
Speaker 1: made a lot of sense to me. That bullet made
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. And I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's time to get to go ahead and
Speaker 1: do what I need to do. Man, I got a
Speaker 1: promise in future, and it's time to act like I
Speaker 1: know I have. I've been raised right and and that's
Speaker 1: what happened though, but it was it was an I know.
Speaker 1: I opened it though, sitting out after being robbing and
Speaker 1: then and getting shot while I was sitting out there
Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't have been a little penny in the streets. Noo. Man,
Speaker 1: you get back on track, make the Dean's List, your
Speaker 1: team makes it to your lead eight. You lost to
Speaker 1: our Nick van Exel Cincinnati nine two summer. You get
Speaker 1: a chance to play for the USA Development team that
Speaker 1: gains to face the Dream Team. And that was a
Speaker 1: hell of a team, man, And I heard stories. I
Speaker 1: want you guys to get to that. But I want
Speaker 1: to name a few players are on that team. Chris Webber,
Speaker 1: Bobby Hurley, Jamal Mashburn, Big Rodney Rogers, Eric Montrosh, Grant Hill,
Speaker 1: Alan Houston, and you guys get to go against the
Speaker 1: Dream Team, everybody's all time favorite team to watch, you know,
Speaker 1: the most talented team we've ever put together. What was
Speaker 1: it like in those battles? Because you guys are young
Speaker 1: and up and coming. I know you, I know Webb
Speaker 1: was out there talking ship, you got your swag. You
Speaker 1: guys had a lot of young talent on that team.
Speaker 1: What was it like going to battle against them? Dudes? Man,
Speaker 1: First of all, you get star strokes soon as you
Speaker 1: walk in the room. We we check in and youre
Speaker 1: walking in the room, you see Larry Burry, Michael Jordan's,
Speaker 1: David Robinson, Charles Barkla Exer, John Stock and all these guys.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god. Like but then you again,
Speaker 1: you say, I don't want to embarrass myself with these cats.
Speaker 1: So once we get to the court, Maggie john Stock,
Speaker 1: then y'all gonna have problems. I don't care. I have to.
Speaker 1: I have to show y'all how can ball. And that
Speaker 1: was my mentality. I have to show y'all to get
Speaker 1: the respect from these guys. And man, we all went
Speaker 1: out there with their mentality that if we if we're
Speaker 1: gonna be out here, we're gonna we're gonna ball out.
Speaker 1: And the first scrimmage that we scrimmaged them like a
Speaker 1: real scrimmage, we shacked him because they didn't take us seriously,
Speaker 1: like we out there talking. I mean, you know, see
Speaker 1: web see what about they're talking so much and he
Speaker 1: kissing them off, but we're having so much fun. The
Speaker 1: next day we come back after beating that ass them boys,
Speaker 1: was so much more physical. The first day wasn't this physical?
Speaker 1: The second day is like they told the referees, y'all
Speaker 1: better not blow y'all whistle one time we're beat I'm
Speaker 1: talking about they beat our ass man, and it was
Speaker 1: just a lesson learned, like we called him off guard.
Speaker 1: But the whole experience of the whole time spending with
Speaker 1: them though, was you could just tell they were just professionals.
Speaker 1: They took their crafts so serious. This and that just
Speaker 1: kind of just resonated with me. Just man, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna make it to this level, you gotta be about
Speaker 1: your business. And it was a great experience for me
Speaker 1: and the rest of the fellas. So you returned after
Speaker 1: that experience, I'm sure you're on cloud now. You return
Speaker 1: for your junior year, you have his twenty three eight
Speaker 1: and a half, six and a half assists, two steals,
Speaker 1: playing out of your mind all America and you make
Speaker 1: the you know you're on the finalist list for Player
Speaker 1: of the Year. What was it like? I think it
Speaker 1: was dope. I never knew that that you had a
Speaker 1: whole Memphis squad. Tell me what your time at Memphis.
Speaker 1: That was a culmination of it. But tell me with
Speaker 1: the time in Memphis was like coming back from that
Speaker 1: that that USA Select Team, Man, can you amount? I
Speaker 1: was on cloud down. I was like, I don't give
Speaker 1: a damn who come at me? I just played this.
Speaker 1: I just the bird. I just say, come on, man,
Speaker 1: stop and I mean I'm ready. So I came back
Speaker 1: into the season so locked in. I mean I think
Speaker 1: I don't know if I missed the day in the
Speaker 1: gym because I was just so locked in on that's
Speaker 1: where I need to be, That's where I want to be. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then coming into the season, like you said, with
Speaker 1: a group of guys that were just basically saying, you're
Speaker 1: our guy, We're gonna follow you. And I had some
Speaker 1: I had some good talent on the team. They weren't
Speaker 1: large names, but they could really play the game, and
Speaker 1: they were tough and man rodding that way. That year, Man,
Speaker 1: I was ready to lead. We had gotten David Vaughan
Speaker 1: from Nashville. He was the guy that the only outside
Speaker 1: MYMI this guy was really David Vaughan. He was from Nashville,
Speaker 1: couple a couple of hours on a road and Man,
Speaker 1: we just went to work. Man. We had an unbelievable
Speaker 1: season and like I said, it ended in the Elite eight.
Speaker 1: But there was nothing like that run. Man, not even
Speaker 1: going to the finals to play against Houston in my
Speaker 1: second year was anything like that run that we made
Speaker 1: the n c A. Man, it was just it was different.
Speaker 1: That's though. That's people don't understand unless you get a
Speaker 1: chance to experience how fun college was. And it's almost
Speaker 1: gonna be a foregone conclusion now for the majority of
Speaker 1: the top top athletes because, first of all, because the
Speaker 1: policy of the n C double A, but the G
Speaker 1: League keeps getting sweeter. You're seeing people like LaMelo Ball
Speaker 1: going overseas and doing what they're doing and buying this
Speaker 1: team and coming back and getting drafted. So the grass
Speaker 1: looks greener on that other side. But for someone like me,
Speaker 1: you know who who did four years in college. You
Speaker 1: did three years of college. You know we both can contest. Man,
Speaker 1: college was, like I said, outside of having children, Man,
Speaker 1: it was it was the best time of my life.
Speaker 1: And U it disappoints me one because the competition level
Speaker 1: isn't what it should be. But just to know that
Speaker 1: guys aren't gonna get that last chance. Everything now is
Speaker 1: so strategic and its money and it's you can risk this,
Speaker 1: you can risk that. Back then, we just wanted to play.
Speaker 1: We wanted to play with our homeboys. We want to
Speaker 1: go have a good time and then hit the NBA.
Speaker 1: But now let's skip that little middle part. Let's get
Speaker 1: get to the NBA. So ninety three you're drafted. Uh
Speaker 1: shake David Stearn's hand. What's that moment? Like? Man, come on, bro,
Speaker 1: I came out of a dorm room with twin bid
Speaker 1: and you know when you're shake Javid sn head that
Speaker 1: you know you're at I'm dumb done with that tweet.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm about to get a mansion. Yeah, I'm about
Speaker 1: to get a man to do. Seriously, though, it was
Speaker 1: just a dream come true to just shake his hand
Speaker 1: and say God, thank you for the opportunity, because this
Speaker 1: is what dreams are made. Though. Man, when you when
Speaker 1: you see it early and you work your ass off
Speaker 1: to get to it and you get to it, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of people can't say that. Man. So when
Speaker 1: I shook his hand, it was like, man, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, I've arrived. Now I read some things that
Speaker 1: you want. You wanted to get to Orlando to play
Speaker 1: with Shack or is that? What is that where you wanted?
Speaker 1: Where did you want to go in the draft? Not
Speaker 1: that you really had a choice, but it was that
Speaker 1: somewhere you wanted to go. I wanted to get to
Speaker 1: Orlando because I was thinking about the Magic and Kareem.
Speaker 1: You know the type of situation. It wasn't I didn't
Speaker 1: want to play with Free and Tim Hardaway. It was
Speaker 1: just I felt like I would be better with Shack
Speaker 1: and that and that tandem. Man, it worked out for
Speaker 1: everybody when it happened. When it happened, high excited would
Speaker 1: when it happened. Man, When they told me that it
Speaker 1: was gonna happen on draft light and I shook Chris
Speaker 1: his hand and I knew he was going to go
Speaker 1: and say now I was going to Orlando, man, I
Speaker 1: just I never stopped smiling because I was like everything.
Speaker 1: I wanted to play with Shack. I wanted to play
Speaker 1: with Shade. Rookie of the year, your first year, rookie
Speaker 1: of the Year, take your team to fifty wins, playing
Speaker 1: all eighty two games, which is unheard of. Now, Um,
Speaker 1: what stood out to you most your rookie year and
Speaker 1: when did it really start clicking? Because I mean you
Speaker 1: hit the floor running, Yeah, you know, coming in, getting
Speaker 1: with Shaq, getting with a team, uh that was on
Speaker 1: the up and coming. I was basically just saying, man,
Speaker 1: it's time for me to just stamp my name now. Uh.
Speaker 1: A lot of people didn't really know me at mentor State,
Speaker 1: and I was like now, and then the Orlando Magic
Speaker 1: drafted me and traded me for Chris Whatever. Everyone knew
Speaker 1: Chris Whatever. So I was ready to just kind of
Speaker 1: stamp my name and say it's time for me to
Speaker 1: make my mark on this league with Shack. It's time
Speaker 1: to win the championship. So that I was really just
Speaker 1: locked in every single night, I was so ampty and
Speaker 1: ready to go against. It didn't matter who it was.
Speaker 1: It's a different game. Now. Who were some of yours
Speaker 1: that's in mentors um on that Orlando team. Well, Nick
Speaker 1: Anderson was definitely mentors. Scott Scotles was a mentor until
Speaker 1: we traded him. But Nick and I kind of drew
Speaker 1: drew to each other because I was a fan of
Speaker 1: those Illinois teams. When he played at Illinois, they had
Speaker 1: squads him and Kendall Gill and Loyd Helm all those
Speaker 1: guys that played at Illinois. They were, man, I think
Speaker 1: their smallest guy in the starting line up like six
Speaker 1: seven six six there were it might have been Stephen
Speaker 1: Bardo and Nick. So I was like, always been a
Speaker 1: fan of his. So when I got to Orlando and
Speaker 1: then I was a fan of Ben Ben Wilson they
Speaker 1: got killed like back in the day. And when I
Speaker 1: heard his story, I was like, man, I just asked
Speaker 1: so many questions. And when I started asking questions, he
Speaker 1: saw how humble I was. I didn't come in with
Speaker 1: any kind of ego. I was like, man, I just
Speaker 1: want to be locked in. I want to be looked
Speaker 1: at and respected by my peers. And Nick was the
Speaker 1: man on the team before Shock and I came. So
Speaker 1: we're just kind of connected. Man, blue chips, Like I said,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite basketball movies. You and Shocked together
Speaker 1: on the big screen. Nick Nolte, Uh crazy with this
Speaker 1: crazy Bobby Bobby Knight impression. What was it like? I
Speaker 1: mean to like, you're you're in movies and everything. You're
Speaker 1: you're a star. Now take me back to and what
Speaker 1: your mindset was, because I'm sure people probably couldn't tell
Speaker 1: Penny shit. Man. Hey man, they have a movie out
Speaker 1: to be playing with Shock, to be one of the
Speaker 1: hottest teams in the league, and that starts was starting
Speaker 1: to shine. Man, it was an unbelieve like it was
Speaker 1: a moment that I can never forget to have a movie.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's like, you're in a movie, a big
Speaker 1: time movie too, man, thank you. I just felt like
Speaker 1: it was it was real too. At the time, I
Speaker 1: was like, this this movie the picks college basketball in
Speaker 1: a real fashion because you got your boosters, you got
Speaker 1: your you know. Back then, I was like, man, everything
Speaker 1: about this movie is real, and I wanted it to
Speaker 1: be so natural. And then our our producer and director
Speaker 1: let us play real basketball, so we didn't act out
Speaker 1: anything except for the last scene for me to throw
Speaker 1: shack the lot. So I was loving everything about it.
Speaker 1: It was on Cloud nine. It was the last time
Speaker 1: someone called you, Butch mccraye. It's been it's been a
Speaker 1: couple of years and since somebody's call. But they do
Speaker 1: still play the movie a lot, so I can appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And they got they got a lot of people making
Speaker 1: that jersey, making your jersey from the movie and wearing
Speaker 1: them too. Yeah, a lot of people like because I
Speaker 1: actually had a set of my shoes, the Air Penny fives.
Speaker 1: They just brought out the Western Bush mccraye with the
Speaker 1: number twenty two on it, and everybody, I'm like, a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know what the two means, but
Speaker 1: that's what it is. Yeah. So the second year, I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys experienced success right off the bat. You guys
Speaker 1: are in the finals. You have a one seven four,
Speaker 1: first team All NBA. You're probably thinking, like, ship is this?
Speaker 1: This is what it's like. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: because it's normally your process. You guys hit it. You're
Speaker 1: in the finals your second year. Speak to me on
Speaker 1: your guys mindset and what you learn from that first
Speaker 1: finals run. Well, when we got horrors Grant from the Bulls,
Speaker 1: I locked it in. At that point, I was like
Speaker 1: we're going to the finals. You can just got you
Speaker 1: got that field when you play on a really good team.
Speaker 1: You guys have played on good teams, I mean in
Speaker 1: sat Cast Championship. So I had to feel like we're
Speaker 1: gonna be unstoppable now now that we have Horror. This
Speaker 1: is a missing piece that year. During the season recular season,
Speaker 1: we were running through everybody. It was just it was
Speaker 1: very easy first couple of rounds of the playoffs. Um,
Speaker 1: we were confident that we just weren't gonna lose, even
Speaker 1: though we lost the second We beat the Boston Celtics
Speaker 1: the first game by sixty three points in the first
Speaker 1: round of the playoffs, and they came back and beat
Speaker 1: us in game two at our building, and we had
Speaker 1: to go to the Garden and beat them two games
Speaker 1: in a row. We shut down the first original Boston
Speaker 1: Garden in that series. And then the next series was
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and the Bulls, and you know, they don't
Speaker 1: lose the playoffs series, so it was like, man, these
Speaker 1: dudes haven't lost in so long. Man, both of you know,
Speaker 1: like we gotta lock in, and we locked in and
Speaker 1: beat them, and then we went to the Indiana Pacers
Speaker 1: went to Game seven with them, and once we did that,
Speaker 1: the Spurs and the Rocket series were still going on,
Speaker 1: and we were like, you don't matter who when, it
Speaker 1: don't matter when we bust in the ass, it's us,
Speaker 1: it's our year. And when Houston one, I think we
Speaker 1: got a little cocky because we beat them both games
Speaker 1: in the regular season pretty handily, and we were like, man,
Speaker 1: we're gonna smash these dudes. Man had them down in
Speaker 1: the first quarter, midway through the second and they made
Speaker 1: a nice run for the end of the half, and
Speaker 1: then the third quarter they made another run and they
Speaker 1: went nip and tuck and it went over time and
Speaker 1: they beat us. And all you're talking about letting the
Speaker 1: air out, I think that game it was like it
Speaker 1: deflated our whole team to where we could never recover
Speaker 1: at all. And they they shot the crap out of
Speaker 1: the ball. Kenny Santa Sell, Fernon Maxwell, Robert Ory, Mario Elie,
Speaker 1: they shot the ball and Dream was Dream was stupid. Man,
Speaker 1: he was stupid. I've describe that that was stupid. But
Speaker 1: talk to talk to because to me, he's one of
Speaker 1: he's one of the great players that gets overlooked so often.
Speaker 1: Talked to us a little bit about what that battle
Speaker 1: was like, because Shock is the up and coming next wave.
Speaker 1: You're an up and coming next wave, and y'all ran
Speaker 1: into motherfucking the Dream and he he set everything straight,
Speaker 1: talk to us about how talented it wasn't what that
Speaker 1: matchup was like between him and Shock at that time. Well,
Speaker 1: let me get this straight. Dream was the vet. Shack
Speaker 1: was kind of the kid. Shock held his own, but
Speaker 1: it was a different level at that time. The Shock
Speaker 1: that was with the Lakers, if he would have been
Speaker 1: that Shock, and we would have played against you, so
Speaker 1: we would want question. But the Shock that was in
Speaker 1: Orlando was just too young. He was he was still
Speaker 1: getting his but it just didn't know enough. But man,
Speaker 1: Dream was really to me, are freaking small forward playing
Speaker 1: center and that ship was unfair. His foot is a
Speaker 1: good way to put it. Was sick. His footwork, his
Speaker 1: shot making ability, his i Q, his toughness, his it's
Speaker 1: just he was just to me, he was a robot dog.
Speaker 1: That dude deserves way more credit than whatever he gets
Speaker 1: if he's not getting it. Absolutely So, like I said,
Speaker 1: you're in the finals your second year, you're thinking it's
Speaker 1: gonna be like that every year, and you had the
Speaker 1: harsh reality of looking back on it now, like it
Speaker 1: doesn't come that easy, it doesn't happen that fast. You
Speaker 1: and Shack's final season together was the next season, Um,
Speaker 1: talk to us about that process. Yeah, at the end
Speaker 1: of that series, we ended up getting swelled. Every game
Speaker 1: was closed, but they just pulled off at the end.
Speaker 1: But after that first game, I felt like the series
Speaker 1: just kind of it deflated the whole squad. And going
Speaker 1: into the next season, of course, we got high hopes, like,
Speaker 1: all right, we just got swept, we're pissed, We're gonna
Speaker 1: run through the season again, and then we're gonna smash everybody.
Speaker 1: And it didn't. It didn't work that way. It Uh,
Speaker 1: it was just we started having injuries. There was like
Speaker 1: contract turmoil, and then all of the stuff started happening,
Speaker 1: and it's just it just kind of went downard. It didn't,
Speaker 1: it went downward, and all of a sudden we woke up.
Speaker 1: We woke the bulls up by beating the grass in
Speaker 1: the second round, and like they was like, hell no,
Speaker 1: we're about to take it back over. And then m
Speaker 1: J worked the whole summer, came back, we get to
Speaker 1: the We won the first round pretty easily, but ended
Speaker 1: up playing the Bulls in like the second round that
Speaker 1: next year and they swept us. We checked and play,
Speaker 1: Nick didn't play, Horse didn't play. It was like I
Speaker 1: was out there like by myself and they were just
Speaker 1: freak licking their chops. And I didn't know Shack was leaving,
Speaker 1: but I guess as the season was going on, he
Speaker 1: was kind of thinking, man, maybe this is it for me.
Speaker 1: Maybe I need to change change scenery. And we went
Speaker 1: into from into that season into the Olympics, and uh,
Speaker 1: I saw all the articles, but I'm still not really
Speaker 1: paying attention. I'm thinking we're gonna get through this. Seeing
Speaker 1: the articles, the fans are saying Shot can't shoot free throws,
Speaker 1: why should we resigned him. I'm looking at this ship, like,
Speaker 1: hold up, what are we talking about? Man, Give this
Speaker 1: man exactly what he wants. But I don't even think
Speaker 1: he really wanted the contract. I think he wanted to
Speaker 1: leave anyway. I think he really saw l A as
Speaker 1: being an opportunity for movies, music and to you know,
Speaker 1: be with Kobe and was like, I think I can
Speaker 1: turn that situation around, and went from Rings over there
Speaker 1: and when Shaq left. I knew the magnitude of that instantly.
Speaker 1: I knew it was over. I knew it was we
Speaker 1: were done before he left. I mean, talk to me
Speaker 1: about you guys experienced a lot of success early on.
Speaker 1: You guys were cool, friendship, good, teammates, good. Everything seemed
Speaker 1: like it clicked from the outside looking in. How good
Speaker 1: do you feel like you guys could have been If
Speaker 1: you guys would have got your time together, five seven,
Speaker 1: eight years together, I think we would have gotten at
Speaker 1: least one. With the way the tempo was going to
Speaker 1: the league, we would have added a couple more pieces,
Speaker 1: but what we already had, with us getting better, having
Speaker 1: more chemistry, I think we win at least one. Okay,
Speaker 1: we can only speculate about what would have happened. I
Speaker 1: think for sure that with one we would have had one.
Speaker 1: And especially with these were getting better and better every
Speaker 1: year and me getting better and better every year. So
Speaker 1: you touched on it. Olympics dream team too, You guys
Speaker 1: win a gold medal. Now you're playing with Shaq? He
Speaker 1: is Is he gone by this point? Is he had
Speaker 1: signed with the Lakers at this point, you know the
Speaker 1: mess up situation? Yeah, he had? He had already signed.
Speaker 1: When we were in the the press conference, even before
Speaker 1: the Olympics started in Atlanta, they asked me, how does
Speaker 1: it feel not to have Shack as a teammate, and
Speaker 1: if anyone was there, I laughed it off, like, well,
Speaker 1: if that's what's gonna happen, then that's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: They're like, you don't know, he's already gone. Like I
Speaker 1: did not know Shack had already signed. It was gone.
Speaker 1: I said, if that happens, then I wish him well.
Speaker 1: But it had already happened. I didn't even know. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit, or talk to us
Speaker 1: a little bit about how Little Penny came about, because
Speaker 1: to me to this day, he was still the coolest
Speaker 1: little Batman and Robin sidekick cartoon I've ever seen for
Speaker 1: an athlete. Super creative. You showed a shiploaded shoes, So
Speaker 1: talk to us about Penny, the little Penny of the
Speaker 1: character and having your own shoe. Yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: little Penny was just a blessing man. I was just
Speaker 1: kind of a side of assassin. I was. I was
Speaker 1: about my business out on the court. I didn't really
Speaker 1: talk to yet. I didn't. I didn't really get it
Speaker 1: in until you took me there, and then it it
Speaker 1: was whatever. But Nike recognized and it was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, we need to get a trash talking alter
Speaker 1: ego for Penny and call him a little Penny. And
Speaker 1: they flew a Penny would do all the all the
Speaker 1: trash talking for Penny, and Penny will just go out
Speaker 1: there and and take care of Venis. And when they
Speaker 1: brought it to me, I instantly liked it. I was like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. I knew when they when they told
Speaker 1: me that that it was going to be successful because
Speaker 1: comedy along with you know, a basketball players that at
Speaker 1: the height of his career or growing to the height
Speaker 1: of his career, I thought that it was gonna be successful,
Speaker 1: and thank god it was. How dope is it? Twenty
Speaker 1: five years later? Do you still have one of the
Speaker 1: most relevant shoes in basketball? Man? I was a sneaker
Speaker 1: head in college. You came to my dorm, if I
Speaker 1: got any money from apparent uncle, whatever, it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: I was buying some seekers. I didn't even get food.
Speaker 1: That's why I was so skinny. I was buying sneakers
Speaker 1: before food, so to get to the league and to
Speaker 1: have my own signature. Shoot, that I have a part
Speaker 1: of building. I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't believe
Speaker 1: that I have designed the logo and I have my
Speaker 1: own signature. Shoot, I knew how how powerful that was.
Speaker 1: And man, I'm to this day. I walked into my
Speaker 1: room and see signature shoes and go, man, God has
Speaker 1: God has been amazing. Now that following year, you're left
Speaker 1: to carry the workload at years old, Uh, without shock,
Speaker 1: you you experience your first bad knee injury. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about where your mental mindset was, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: there had been so us success leading up to that point,
Speaker 1: Finals appearances, all NBA Olympic gold medals. Now you're kind
Speaker 1: of starting over again at twenty five, and then you experience,
Speaker 1: you know, a really tough knee injury. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, that was that was horrible. Man. I
Speaker 1: obviously already was just kind of just down and out
Speaker 1: about shack leaving. And you try to make the best
Speaker 1: of it. You get the training camp and go, all right,
Speaker 1: the big Fellers not coming back. Man, it's on your shoulders.
Speaker 1: You can't lose team. You gotta keep this team going.
Speaker 1: Forward and hopefully we can get a free agent soon
Speaker 1: to come in and at least help. Nobody was gonna
Speaker 1: ever be able to do what Shack could have done.
Speaker 1: But I get into the season, and I make it
Speaker 1: through the season pretty decent, like I didn't really get
Speaker 1: hurt little knickknacks. Get into the playoffs against the Detroit Pistons,
Speaker 1: and Joe Dumars going for offensive rebounds to slammed into
Speaker 1: the back of my knee. It was most excruciated. It
Speaker 1: was the most excruciating pain I ever felt in my life.
Speaker 1: But I kept playing. And back then if you miss games,
Speaker 1: it was like, you can't miss games. We need you
Speaker 1: on the court. So I played through it that season
Speaker 1: and wants to season was over. Man, that summer I was.
Speaker 1: I kept feeling it, but I was like, it's not
Speaker 1: really stopping me from playing. And man, as it got
Speaker 1: further and further in the summer, almost close to training camp,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I did more damage to it
Speaker 1: playing on in the summer. I told our team doctor, Man,
Speaker 1: something just isn't right. And I went to the doctor
Speaker 1: and I had a torminous because and I had to
Speaker 1: have my first surgery and man, it just seemed like
Speaker 1: from that point I just never felt right. Man. I
Speaker 1: just I don't know what it was, but I just
Speaker 1: could never regain or get back to that explosiveness and
Speaker 1: that speed and that quickness that I had. It was
Speaker 1: like I was just kind of pushing through, but it's
Speaker 1: just never never really felt right. And that was that
Speaker 1: was devastating for sure. I know they had to be
Speaker 1: frustrated to bid your prime, being your prime dealer with
Speaker 1: the injury. What what was your mentor like at that time?
Speaker 1: You know what I was? I was I was really
Speaker 1: messed up in the head because I was thinking, like,
Speaker 1: if you don't get back, then then it's gonna I mean,
Speaker 1: where do you go from here? And I was saying,
Speaker 1: I just gotta lock in, work my ass off and
Speaker 1: get back get healthy. But I wasn't doing it right.
Speaker 1: I didn't have somebody in my ear going okay, slow down.
Speaker 1: First of all, let's slow down. You don't have to
Speaker 1: have a rush, you know. Grant Hill set out for
Speaker 1: two years after that. I don't know if Jack remembers this.
Speaker 1: When I was playing for the Suns, I tore my
Speaker 1: monis because against the Spurs and I played the whole
Speaker 1: series and Timmy didn't play. Timmy set out. When I
Speaker 1: look back on those days, and that's what was going
Speaker 1: through my mind. Man, do you need to sit out
Speaker 1: until your wealth or when you start feeling better? Do
Speaker 1: you need to play? And that's when I was wrestling,
Speaker 1: when the whole time, nobody told me, Man, sit down
Speaker 1: into your I think I would get the eighty ninety
Speaker 1: and I was like, all right, I'm ready and I
Speaker 1: go right back out there. I never really fully got
Speaker 1: into a hunter, and that was that was the era
Speaker 1: I was from, and I just damaged myself more and
Speaker 1: couldn't get over the hump. It's interesting to hear you
Speaker 1: talk about that and say that because, like you said,
Speaker 1: eighty two was it was a badger pride back then.
Speaker 1: Like you, there was no days off, there's no work management,
Speaker 1: load management. If you can walk, you can play, man.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? And you hear you hear
Speaker 1: you see guys such as yourself, who who kind of
Speaker 1: ran yourself to the ground because the competitive nature and
Speaker 1: how you came up, wanted to get you back on
Speaker 1: the court. You know, Grant Hill with Naggie injuries, Brandon
Speaker 1: Roy coming back too soon from injuries. It's just our
Speaker 1: competitive nature to want to get back out there on
Speaker 1: the court, because this is before we had all the
Speaker 1: technology and sports and they can monitor your body and
Speaker 1: read your body and do all this kind of ship,
Speaker 1: and it definitely would have changed the direct trajectory of
Speaker 1: your career in my opinion. Obviously you're still to me
Speaker 1: one of the greats, but you would have had more
Speaker 1: years in your being Penny than you definitely did. Well.
Speaker 1: Let me say this two Penny Penny is I can
Speaker 1: speak for this. He was one of them. He was.
Speaker 1: He was different from a lot of these stars to
Speaker 1: man like, Penny hooped in the summertime, like he played
Speaker 1: in tournaments. He he had teams, he used to drive
Speaker 1: down Louisiana and playing tournaments like he was a real hoopisode.
Speaker 1: When you talk about stars and lets of the game,
Speaker 1: you gotta put Pen in a differ category. He was.
Speaker 1: He was the face of the league, but he was
Speaker 1: regular because he's still hoop. He still hooped with us
Speaker 1: in the summertime and all that type of stuff, So
Speaker 1: he had a different category too. You know, I know
Speaker 1: I appreciate that because I took that seriously. Man, I
Speaker 1: love the ball and balling was what I was really
Speaker 1: felt like I was going to do. And I went
Speaker 1: to d C, I went to Atlanta, I went to
Speaker 1: Lake Charles were jacking him down there and everywhere. I
Speaker 1: played ball everywhere. And it didn't matter, man, because I
Speaker 1: see where guys don't play in the summer. I see
Speaker 1: where guys are just kind of just drilling. I'm like, damn, man,
Speaker 1: who Like, that's what we did, you know? We whoop
Speaker 1: And that's what I love doing, though, man, And that's
Speaker 1: what we didn't getting nothing out of it. Penny wouldn't
Speaker 1: getting nine, you were sponsoring teams, you weren't getting nothing
Speaker 1: out of it. Just to win the championship and the
Speaker 1: hoop with your boys in the summer. That's it, man,
Speaker 1: And that's what the love was. Man. I was just
Speaker 1: one of the dudes that had always hoop and I
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna stop just because I had some starter in
Speaker 1: the league. Like I was bigger than anybody else. I
Speaker 1: wanted to keep that going in the summer. This is
Speaker 1: post lockout post Michael Jordan's um post shack. You guys
Speaker 1: face a young Alan Iverson in the first round, they
Speaker 1: beat you, guys, what was it like seeing him in
Speaker 1: that next wave of young players on the way many
Speaker 1: I was different because this dude was six ft but
Speaker 1: he had like seven ft arms and you you he
Speaker 1: had that. He had that ball on the string, and
Speaker 1: he could make tough, make him take tough shots. I
Speaker 1: know he he just he was athletic enough, he was
Speaker 1: fast enough, he was tough enough, and he was a
Speaker 1: tough shot take a tough shot maker. And his attitude
Speaker 1: was on a million like he had that little man
Speaker 1: complex so hard, like you can't tell me nothing, you
Speaker 1: ain't about to stop me. I don't care who you
Speaker 1: put in front of me. And watching that live while
Speaker 1: I was kind of going through my thing, it was like,
Speaker 1: oh this, hey, I coming, he come in and he
Speaker 1: coming here to stay for a while. That motherfucker came
Speaker 1: for sure. Traded to Phoenix and get a chance to
Speaker 1: play with Ja Kid. Tell me what your thought process
Speaker 1: is leaving Orlando going to a dope city such as
Speaker 1: in Phoenix, Jason Kidd, one of another one of the
Speaker 1: top Usherlan point guards along with yourself, What was it
Speaker 1: like being out there getting a chance to run with
Speaker 1: Jay Kid. Well, I feel like at the point of
Speaker 1: where I was with Orlando that it had ran his course.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish he would have been different, but
Speaker 1: it had ran his course. Dr Rivers came in and
Speaker 1: he was a coach. He was talking about having to
Speaker 1: rebuild my entire career, rebuild my name around the city.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting here going, damn, I gave all these blood,
Speaker 1: sweating tears, played injury, and I gotta kinda go back
Speaker 1: and build my brand all over again in Orlando. And
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, J Kidd did a
Speaker 1: hell of a job, you know, calling me and saying, hey, man,
Speaker 1: let's do it. And I was like, man to me,
Speaker 1: J Kid, one of the greatest ever played the game.
Speaker 1: We can go. We can go get some stuff done
Speaker 1: out here in Phoenix. And I decided to go to
Speaker 1: Phoenix and the two thousand playoffs, your signs mashed up
Speaker 1: the Lakers against Kobe and Shock. What was that? Like? Weird?
Speaker 1: At hell? That was weird. That was weird because I'm
Speaker 1: playing against Shock in the playoff series. I never thought
Speaker 1: that would have happened, you know, when I first went
Speaker 1: into the league, and I'm with the Sons, and of
Speaker 1: course that's their championship. Years um, they had a lot
Speaker 1: of hiccups, uh in some games where they should have
Speaker 1: lost and then Kobe comes through with a shot. I
Speaker 1: mean we had them in game three in l A
Speaker 1: or game four and he makes a shot over Ja
Speaker 1: Kidd to uh to win that game. We had to.
Speaker 1: We we led that game the whole game. And obviously
Speaker 1: you know the Portland Trail Bases situation where they were
Speaker 1: just smashing them and then they make the up, they
Speaker 1: make the run and sack the lot of the run.
Speaker 1: So I mean, to play against them, you can just
Speaker 1: tell that they had the effect. You could just tell
Speaker 1: they were locked and load of to every area with
Speaker 1: role players, with stars, and we took them the six games,
Speaker 1: but it just wasn't enough. But J Kid and I
Speaker 1: were like, hey man, well we'll get back there next year.
Speaker 1: But you could just see the Lakers. The Lakers were coming.
Speaker 1: You just saw it early on. Yeah, So a combination
Speaker 1: of injuries and early playoffs. X. Since you're off to
Speaker 1: New York and oh four, what's your thought process as
Speaker 1: far as knowing you and what you're capable of bringing
Speaker 1: and what you felt like you can go to the
Speaker 1: Knicks and accomplish. I think that was probably the most
Speaker 1: disappointing time to be in the city, on the biggest
Speaker 1: stage in the Big Apple and not be me. I'm
Speaker 1: out here like a seller myself on the biggest stage,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, why, I just wish that I
Speaker 1: could just get to a point where I could be me.
Speaker 1: And I just pushed through it. But I knew I
Speaker 1: wasn't me, man, And I love New York. I felt
Speaker 1: like the fans deserved me at the highest level because
Speaker 1: you know how New York is, and playing for the
Speaker 1: Knicks was a huge honor. I didn't take that lightly.
Speaker 1: But I was also going home and like going, Man,
Speaker 1: I just hate I'm not me, I'm not myself. What
Speaker 1: did you do? What did you do to come back that?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You can keep trying, you
Speaker 1: can keep pushing, but mentally, what did you Because that's
Speaker 1: what I like to have other people understand. There's so
Speaker 1: much fucking mental that comes along with this process. What
Speaker 1: did you do to to fight your way out of
Speaker 1: that or deal with that, or or handle that situation
Speaker 1: during that time? You know what I said to myself,
Speaker 1: I said, man, you're here, Let's make the best of it.
Speaker 1: Work your ass off, Give it all you got, don't
Speaker 1: need nothing in the tank and lit it and then
Speaker 1: you could you could go to sleep at night, you know,
Speaker 1: And and that's what I did. Man, it does funk
Speaker 1: with you mentally because it's just you. I mean, the garden,
Speaker 1: the mystique of the garden. You got Spike Leo on
Speaker 1: the sideline, You got all these stars and they want
Speaker 1: to win so badly, and we weren't winning. And I
Speaker 1: was a part of that negative tradition of the Knicks
Speaker 1: haven't won in a while. And it just that bothered
Speaker 1: me too, because I felt like those fans, out of
Speaker 1: all the fans in the NBA, deserved to win. The
Speaker 1: loyal Did you have any clue what was going on
Speaker 1: with Marbury behind the scenes while he was there? I didn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, Steph was. He and I hit it off
Speaker 1: really well when he came to the it came to
Speaker 1: the Suns from the net, and when he went back
Speaker 1: to New York, I felt like it was a chance
Speaker 1: of a lifetime for him because he was in his prime.
Speaker 1: He could still do it. He could still do it, So,
Speaker 1: I mean, who wouldn't want to go back home in
Speaker 1: the prime of their years? Even though he was playing
Speaker 1: for the Nets over New Jersey. It's different playing in
Speaker 1: the garden. So I felt like he was on cloud
Speaker 1: nine going back, like I'm about to put on for
Speaker 1: the city, and I just wanted to help support that
Speaker 1: while he was there back home. So you inju your
Speaker 1: career in two thousand seven mentally, Like I said, I
Speaker 1: really like to know the mental approach. Where were you at? Well?
Speaker 1: Did you say it was time? Did they say it
Speaker 1: was time? What were your thoughts heading to Miami. I
Speaker 1: think that my my thought process was I had gotten
Speaker 1: myself in a really good shape. Let's let's let's produce.
Speaker 1: Let's be consistent, and let's produce with the heat. I
Speaker 1: didn't know I was gonna start when I first went there.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what was gonna happen. I was just
Speaker 1: ready to take on whatever challenge they gave me and
Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity and man, just go all out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I had definitely fallen from grace. I wasn't the same player,
Speaker 1: but I felt like I could still contribute. So I
Speaker 1: wanted contribute to help shock being reunited with Shack, and
Speaker 1: then it helped the way because the way it was
Speaker 1: that dude and it was weird, man, because it was
Speaker 1: like I had gotten to the point where it had
Speaker 1: faded so badly that the respect wasn't really there anymore.
Speaker 1: It was like, that's Penny Hardaway, but that's really not
Speaker 1: Penny Hardaway. So it started to become the beginning of
Speaker 1: the end. And I knew my time was number even
Speaker 1: though we were when the way got hurt and then
Speaker 1: Shot got traded for Shawn Mary, and I knew that
Speaker 1: it was over for me. I knew Pat Rally was
Speaker 1: going to rebuild and try to get hiring the draft
Speaker 1: because you had Mike Beasley, Yead, Derek Rose and those guys.
Speaker 1: So right before Christmas, Pat called me was like we're
Speaker 1: gonna go, young man, We're gonna rebuild. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: thanks for the opportunity, and I knew there was the
Speaker 1: end right there. That was that was That was a
Speaker 1: tough day because I really wanted to end on my
Speaker 1: terms and I didn't end on my terms. Two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven. You retire that year, yep, I really. I
Speaker 1: didn't officially say I'm retired, but yeah, pretty much too.
Speaker 1: South and Step. It was the retirement touton. So initially,
Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of people don't get you know.
Speaker 1: I think you you fall into a category because a
Speaker 1: lot of guys maybe not obviously not with your talent,
Speaker 1: but then not ending the way you planned it or
Speaker 1: the way you dreamed or the way it was supposed
Speaker 1: to end. How hard was that process post career? Uh,
Speaker 1: from a day to day standpoint, it was very hard
Speaker 1: to accept because the guys that were that were commentating,
Speaker 1: the guys that were kind of the guys that have
Speaker 1: to talk about guys like myself, they wasn't giving me
Speaker 1: my just too when I was that guy. They were
Speaker 1: basically saying that I was basically who I was at
Speaker 1: that point my whole career. And I noticed, that's way different.
Speaker 1: You gotta still show me my love and my first
Speaker 1: seven years of my career. Come on, man, don't forget
Speaker 1: about those those years. And it almost made me feel
Speaker 1: like leaving the game that they weren't gonna wreck guys
Speaker 1: that in my prime, that I was one of the
Speaker 1: better players that have ever played the game. And then
Speaker 1: I got injured, so that part of it was tough
Speaker 1: to handle. And I was just hoping that one day
Speaker 1: that I would get my dude, And now guys are
Speaker 1: definitely saying it more like, oh, you know Penny was
Speaker 1: was that guy versus now he didn't belong in the
Speaker 1: category with this person or that person. So I don't
Speaker 1: appreciate that more. You belong to every category. Like I said,
Speaker 1: Jack and I before this show, when we found out
Speaker 1: we was gonna get you, I'm like, hell yeah, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I just think there's a lack of
Speaker 1: appreciation for what came before us. And barring injury, the
Speaker 1: pace you were on, the level you played at people,
Speaker 1: you were making all NBA with m J, battling MJ,
Speaker 1: being MJ, holding your own, you know. So we definitely
Speaker 1: want to, you know, take our hats off to you
Speaker 1: because you're someone that we looked up to for sure, man,
Speaker 1: and you definitely did your thing. And I'm glad it's
Speaker 1: starting to come around because I think too often people
Speaker 1: forget and you know it, it was so long, it
Speaker 1: was pre social media, it was pre a lot of things.
Speaker 1: So sometimes talented people such as yourself that didn't in
Speaker 1: the right way the beginning gets you know, looked over.
Speaker 1: But we definitely don't want to have that happen here, man,
Speaker 1: So we wanted to give you definitely a shoutou from
Speaker 1: that standpoint because you were a motherfucking killer bro straight up.
Speaker 1: And you know, it means more than me coming from
Speaker 1: you guys than somebody that don't know the game, because
Speaker 1: you guys were balls. You guys understand the game and
Speaker 1: we all have a mutual respect. But I know you
Speaker 1: guys ain't gonna give credit where credit is and doue
Speaker 1: y'all are as where as they come. So to hear
Speaker 1: that from you guys, I definitely appreciate that for sure. No,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you. Man. So post career two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: you touched on it a little bit. A childhood friend,
Speaker 1: Desmond Merryweather, convinced you to come back and help him
Speaker 1: walk us through that process because to me, it's it's
Speaker 1: very heartfelt process. But you experienced success right away coaching.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about both of those, you know what.
Speaker 1: So what was so crazy is that we had like
Speaker 1: an alumni game my middle school to my high school.
Speaker 1: If you played at the middle school high school, played
Speaker 1: the game. After that game was over, Desly came up
Speaker 1: to me and was like, man, I'm really not feeling well.
Speaker 1: I go to the keemos I don't want to sit
Speaker 1: on the bench. It's kind of tough. If you can
Speaker 1: just come help me with my team, just until I
Speaker 1: can kind of start to feel better. And obviously I did.
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I'm not doing anything, I'll come.
Speaker 1: When I went into the building and saw the team,
Speaker 1: the team was like a championship team already, and all
Speaker 1: I needed to do was just add a little structure,
Speaker 1: some discipline, and a lot of love to some hood kids.
Speaker 1: And DA's was already giving him love. But he was sick.
Speaker 1: So I got in there and man, this dude is
Speaker 1: fighting and battling. Man how to take a time out
Speaker 1: to go throw up out to coming from Keybold and
Speaker 1: come back to the bench. And I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta, I gotta help this situation. And
Speaker 1: that one year or that one week or that two
Speaker 1: week turned into three years of being the middle school coach,
Speaker 1: uh and Desmond is just fighting and still battling through.
Speaker 1: The kids didn't know the magnitude of what was going
Speaker 1: on with this man until the third year. He wouldn't
Speaker 1: tell him. He wouldn't tell them that he was sick.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't tell him the magnitude of what was going on.
Speaker 1: And man, that whole experience really taught me a lot
Speaker 1: about me, taught me a lot about love, taught me
Speaker 1: a lot about situation circumstances. And I never thought would
Speaker 1: have been a middle school coach, But we took this
Speaker 1: group of kids who were in gangs, who were street cats,
Speaker 1: who were not really thinking about school, not even really
Speaker 1: thinking about going to college, maybe a couple of them,
Speaker 1: to having a whole bunch. I feel like, we're all
Speaker 1: going to college. We all want to be something better
Speaker 1: than what we wanted to be before you got here. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you and Desmond are the great role models. Y'all
Speaker 1: make us want to be better. And that alone made
Speaker 1: me feel really good because I knew that we had
Speaker 1: changed the culture in our neighborhood from thinking about being
Speaker 1: in the streets to one day being on Wall Street.
Speaker 1: That's my mentality to those kids, and that's what I
Speaker 1: really wanted to do. And they did it, they believe,
Speaker 1: and all of those kids, with the exception of two,
Speaker 1: all went to college. I those three teams, and that
Speaker 1: is a success versus what would have happened if we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have come back and cared about them doing that. Uh.
Speaker 1: That catapulted to AU. So we want to start AU
Speaker 1: program so that these kids could get national exposure. We
Speaker 1: knew that they could play, but we wanted the coaches
Speaker 1: in the country to see them play and for them
Speaker 1: to get rankings and get their names out there. And
Speaker 1: we built a great program and then that went on
Speaker 1: to high school and then from high school. Now I'm here, man.
Speaker 1: But the whole entire situation of coming back home and
Speaker 1: getting back into my neighborhood, not just any neighborhood, but
Speaker 1: my neighborhood was man so gratifying because most guys ain't
Speaker 1: going back to the hood. Jack he can understan you know,
Speaker 1: you know he in the hood. He touched his kids
Speaker 1: lives and talked to him and mentored all the time.
Speaker 1: To be back there everything. It means everything. So for
Speaker 1: me to physically be there every day for them, uh,
Speaker 1: they really appreciated that, man, And it's been it's been
Speaker 1: a great ride. Well I can imagine, I can I
Speaker 1: can imagine if I had a coach or even an
Speaker 1: NBA player, let alone Penny Hardaway coming back to him,
Speaker 1: coming back to us, giving us the knowledge, spending his
Speaker 1: time like we I know my outlook and and and
Speaker 1: my my dreams will making to the NBA would have
Speaker 1: been more touchable if I would have baby to experience
Speaker 1: that as a as a as a on kid. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It worked out for me, but
Speaker 1: I didn't believe it. Other people believe more in me
Speaker 1: than I did myself. But if I had actually had
Speaker 1: the NBA pairer come down and talk to me, give
Speaker 1: me pointers in high school, man, that would have done
Speaker 1: wonders for me. So you what you're doing for them kids, Man,
Speaker 1: that's priceless. Bro. You know I appreciate him. I'll take that.
Speaker 1: I'll take that at the heart to man because coming
Speaker 1: back home. Man, your city needs you, Bro, your city
Speaker 1: needs you. I mean giving money. I've given money since
Speaker 1: ninety three, but to actually be there physically, to touch,
Speaker 1: to talk, to be a father's figure, to be a mentor,
Speaker 1: to be a coach, to be a counselor just to listen.
Speaker 1: I have to make deals with these kids to say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: if you could just not get angry, then then too
Speaker 1: with the teachers, and I got you in this area
Speaker 1: and then and then if you're gonna get angry, makes
Speaker 1: you just ask to teach you to give you five
Speaker 1: minutes and I'll go to the teacher and go, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's having problems at home. He has eleven siblings. It's
Speaker 1: eight different fathers. Four the fathers might be doing for
Speaker 1: his siblings and nobody's doing for him, and he's mad
Speaker 1: and jealous of his siblings. He might come in mad
Speaker 1: because he hadn't eaten and he was hungry, and he
Speaker 1: was mad. Then nothing was happening for him. So I'm
Speaker 1: doing deals in the schools. But I started feeding them
Speaker 1: in the morning, feeding them out of school, feeding them
Speaker 1: at night to make sure that they got good square meals.
Speaker 1: And these kids were just they were all over the place.
Speaker 1: So I had to start making deals with them to
Speaker 1: get them locked in, and they started understanding what I
Speaker 1: was saying. Man. So the beauty of all the inside
Speaker 1: part of it was it's definitely it's been worth it.
Speaker 1: I think that's beautiful. And obviously you explained how much
Speaker 1: you know, effort you put in, and I'm sure how
Speaker 1: much they appreciate it. Tell are like, what did that
Speaker 1: mean to you though? Because like I said, I get
Speaker 1: a chance to coach my kids and there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's amazing. It's just exciting for me
Speaker 1: as when I played, being able to coach my kids
Speaker 1: and see them succeed at something they love and appreciate
Speaker 1: and get better. What did all everything you did and
Speaker 1: everything you're doing for kids, What does that do for
Speaker 1: you as a man. It's to me, it's just showing
Speaker 1: that I made my grandmother proud because she told me,
Speaker 1: if you ever make it, don't never forget what come from.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's saying with me forever. So for me,
Speaker 1: I don't walk around with a badge. I just know, man,
Speaker 1: I did something to help my city and my neighborhood,
Speaker 1: and I did something to help motivate them. It wasn't
Speaker 1: with the money. It was me in the hood. Every
Speaker 1: day I'm driving Bentley's in the hood, I'm driving Rovers
Speaker 1: in the hood and they're seeing this and touching this
Speaker 1: and dreaming through that. I'm just saying, I'm driving by
Speaker 1: the apartment that I lived in. I lived in like
Speaker 1: six different sections of apartments in the whole neighborhood, and
Speaker 1: me and my mom we were like all over the place.
Speaker 1: But I'm driving by these same places that I grew
Speaker 1: up in bro In Bentley's and Ranges and going to
Speaker 1: these kids to say, hey, man, I used to live there.
Speaker 1: I used to live there, and look where now. So
Speaker 1: for me, it's just man, I thank god they have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to even come back because by my career
Speaker 1: being cut short, I was actually able to do this
Speaker 1: talk to us to the bit. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: you've touched on a little bit, but it's full circle.
Speaker 1: You're literally back where you started at coaching at Memphis.
Speaker 1: How did that come about? Well, obviously the team was
Speaker 1: to have a success. We had just gotten a legendary coach,
Speaker 1: coach Tubby Smith. Fans were getting a little restless because
Speaker 1: we had had a few years of a down season,
Speaker 1: and this is a basketball city. They don't really want
Speaker 1: the Tigers to be down. The Grizzies can be down
Speaker 1: a little bit, but the Tigers, the Tigers can't be down.
Speaker 1: It's just that's the Cities team. And and and and
Speaker 1: I guess at the time where the group that I had,
Speaker 1: I had a group of kids that I started within
Speaker 1: sixth grade. That group was actually all seniors at the time,
Speaker 1: and it was actually the time that I was really
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I
Speaker 1: told desmid that I was gonna stay with that group
Speaker 1: of kids until they graduated. And the time that the
Speaker 1: job opened up for the University Memphis at the same
Speaker 1: time as it was for the kids who were seniors
Speaker 1: to graduate. So the time and on that couldn't have
Speaker 1: been more perfect for me. Beautiful, talk to us. You
Speaker 1: touched on a little bit. Twenty five years later. You
Speaker 1: guys just said you just released a shoe one cent.
Speaker 1: Talk Talk to us about where's that right now and
Speaker 1: how you feel to know twenty five years later you
Speaker 1: still have one of the dope at shoes. Well, no, man,
Speaker 1: I owe not you a lot because they hung in
Speaker 1: there with me. They stuck with me. They kept building
Speaker 1: my brand with my shoes. I actually have had a
Speaker 1: different shoe drop, a purple shoes drop every year over
Speaker 1: the last ten years, twelve years. They're droppings of the shoes,
Speaker 1: even if it's new shoes or if they're remaking the
Speaker 1: phones in different colors. Man, that's that's love. That's love
Speaker 1: right there. Man, to still be relevant when kids that
Speaker 1: are in today's age didn't even know who it was.
Speaker 1: Of course, they have YouTube and they can go on there,
Speaker 1: but to have shoes still being dropped to this day. Man,
Speaker 1: that's that is love. You know you got a dope
Speaker 1: shoe when you could wear on and off the court.
Speaker 1: You mean, them phones go with anything. So that's when
Speaker 1: you know you got a dope ass shoe. You could
Speaker 1: go straight from basketball practice, go home and shower hopefully
Speaker 1: to the club and their motherfucker to still be doing
Speaker 1: your things. And you know what's so funny is that
Speaker 1: I told Nike, they said, what do you want? What
Speaker 1: do you want out of a shoe? I said, Man,
Speaker 1: I really wanted to be like Jay's because Jay's you
Speaker 1: can wear them on the court and off the court.
Speaker 1: My shoes to be one on the court and off
Speaker 1: the court. And that's what happened. Man, we built the shoe.
Speaker 1: I wanted that. I did want that. That's what's up.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna dump Ton said. Compare ns A basketball
Speaker 1: to the early nineties. This NCA basketball compared to the
Speaker 1: early nineties, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a difference
Speaker 1: because guys stayed in school four years. Like Matt said,
Speaker 1: he stayed in school four years. It was rare for
Speaker 1: guys to come out early at all. Back in the
Speaker 1: early nineties and guys were staying longer, so it was
Speaker 1: a better Um, it was a better game. It wasn't
Speaker 1: it was a veteran. It was kind of like it said,
Speaker 1: a veteran, a veterans league of college players because everybody
Speaker 1: had got a chance to play together two or three years,
Speaker 1: So the teams were better. Now now you're getting guys
Speaker 1: to come in for one and done and they've been
Speaker 1: taught to just be about themselves and really not even
Speaker 1: be about the school. Most guys go to school to
Speaker 1: be go to school to be one and done. They
Speaker 1: just want to get numbers and then get to that draft.
Speaker 1: So the basketball is kind of watered down a little
Speaker 1: bit more now because the substances gone. Guys aren't staying
Speaker 1: two or three years. And I get it, you gotta
Speaker 1: go get that money. But there's a ton of talented players.
Speaker 1: But the nineties was just was better because the guys
Speaker 1: stayed in school longer. Even though you're still getting good
Speaker 1: basketball now, it was just better basketball back then. What
Speaker 1: do you, obviously, as a head coach now in the
Speaker 1: Major D one program, how do you approach those one
Speaker 1: and dunes? Because I know U c. L A Was
Speaker 1: stuck a long time when we don't want one and
Speaker 1: dunes and you see they've been in the motherfucking toilet
Speaker 1: for years. How do you how do you approach as
Speaker 1: a head coach? Okay, well, if I'm gonna get this
Speaker 1: hell of a talent for a year, how do I
Speaker 1: make him buy into what we're trying to do and
Speaker 1: that's gonna help propel him to a lot of repick? Well,
Speaker 1: I think you know, because I played in the league,
Speaker 1: I kind of identified with the one and done better
Speaker 1: than most coaches because we were then. We were the
Speaker 1: guys that had the game that we're gonna go to
Speaker 1: the draft, that we're gonna be, that we're gonna be selected.
Speaker 1: So I gonna get that guy and say, hey man,
Speaker 1: let me develop you, let me teach you, let me
Speaker 1: pour into you what I know. I don't care about
Speaker 1: you being a one and done because I know that
Speaker 1: you're special talent. You can't help me win. I can't
Speaker 1: get a group of guys around you and we can
Speaker 1: go get this thing done. And that's what that's the
Speaker 1: way I approach you, Like I don't need you to
Speaker 1: be in school three or four years. And in today's league,
Speaker 1: the older you are, the more you're not gonna get drafted.
Speaker 1: So my job if you're if you're that type of dude,
Speaker 1: I need to get you out of here in one
Speaker 1: year anyway. And that's what I tell those kids, that's
Speaker 1: what's up. Who better to teach them? If there was
Speaker 1: one plan that you could play with in your career
Speaker 1: that you didn't play with, who would it be back
Speaker 1: in the day, back in the day or just anybody? Anybody? Man,
Speaker 1: that's a tough one. I'm a fan of. Probably probably
Speaker 1: because of probably because of my mental Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: have loved to play with with with Magic Lebron because
Speaker 1: those are big guards. I would have loved to play
Speaker 1: with those guys in their prime. It was me and
Speaker 1: my prime. I mean I thought that that'll be sick
Speaker 1: y'all followed the same category, all the same category. Man.
Speaker 1: Imagine that that ship who was who was in a
Speaker 1: poison point guard that you every time he played on
Speaker 1: him like it was time to go. You had to
Speaker 1: get on top of it, like you have to get
Speaker 1: the roll. We just had that dude right there, hey
Speaker 1: g P. As they came dog that dude he did.
Speaker 1: I never saw him take one game off I never
Speaker 1: He always was on a million when it came to
Speaker 1: getting at you. So when you played him and you
Speaker 1: had to bring it, Bro, he he was gonna respect you.
Speaker 1: He was gonna dog you if you didn't bring it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know he didn't take a light on nobody know
Speaker 1: Which teams did you enjoy playing. I enjoyed playing the
Speaker 1: Bulls because they were like, they were great. That was
Speaker 1: one game I look fortunate every time with m J. Scotty,
Speaker 1: that whole little era with that those Bulls teams, because
Speaker 1: you knew that if you beat them that you had
Speaker 1: done something major. Like there was one team that I
Speaker 1: look forward to playing it every single time. Who were
Speaker 1: some of the younger players in today's game that that
Speaker 1: that caught your I obviously Zion, y'all everybody say joy
Speaker 1: what y'all didn't do? Man, I gotta I gotta close
Speaker 1: look at you. Being here in Memphis and I went
Speaker 1: to some games and I saw how he played. I
Speaker 1: was like, this dude got it. He got the infected bro. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he knew he got it. I watched it in person
Speaker 1: too many times and I was being very critical to
Speaker 1: see I want to see what this. I knew he
Speaker 1: could play. But man, he got he got it. He
Speaker 1: definitely got it. I'm trying to think who was young
Speaker 1: players Jason Tatum, Yeah, yeah, Jason. I've been watching him
Speaker 1: since eighth grade, been competing against him, and I knew
Speaker 1: that he would be who he was. But proud to
Speaker 1: see him there. I don't know why I'm going blank, man,
Speaker 1: because I'm a huge fan of a lot of guys
Speaker 1: in the league, but both got to jump out. Those
Speaker 1: guys shomped out, like right away. Is there anybody that
Speaker 1: you have seen since you've come and going in the
Speaker 1: NBA um that resembles your game at all? You think?
Speaker 1: I think in transition, maybe maybe Ben Simmons and transition,
Speaker 1: how you pushed the tempo. I'm talking about how he
Speaker 1: pushed the tempo. I don't know. I ain't say about
Speaker 1: everything else, but to me, it's a it's a big
Speaker 1: guard and I love Ben, I mean, but how he
Speaker 1: pushed the tempo I think. I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: anymore big guards that are just really just pushing the
Speaker 1: temple that it's beautiful. I love Ben Simmons too. I
Speaker 1: don't give a fun what no one says about his shooting.
Speaker 1: Once if if he can figure that out, I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a real problem because everything for as
Speaker 1: big as he is, his vision, his handle, his his
Speaker 1: ability to get to the basket. I don't give him
Speaker 1: this unmatched. His finesse side is a lot like pennies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what I meant, That's basically what I meant when it
Speaker 1: came to there. But that's where it stopped. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: I know you listened to hip hop. I know you're
Speaker 1: a big time music guy. Your name been name dropped
Speaker 1: in a lot of songs, favorite songs. Have you've been
Speaker 1: named dropped in? Man ship? Well, you know the home
Speaker 1: of Yo Gotti. He didn't, he didn't drop my name.
Speaker 1: That's what I got. I gotta drop Yo Gotti. But uh,
Speaker 1: that would be that would be the top, because you know,
Speaker 1: we was going to raise in the same hood and
Speaker 1: kind of made it out of the mud. So I
Speaker 1: gotta go with I gotta go. I gotta go with
Speaker 1: Yo Gotti. Though if I know your got is from
Speaker 1: the same hood, I ain't know that. Yeah, yeah, dope, dope. Hey,
Speaker 1: back when you were playing who were you listening to
Speaker 1: to get ready for games? I was listening to Jay
Speaker 1: You know, Jay and Jay and Biggie and you know
Speaker 1: them guys. Was the was them dudes back then though,
Speaker 1: like still all still those those cats. And then of
Speaker 1: course you know you were listening with West Coast it
Speaker 1: was it was Pocket Snoop, and then East Coast it
Speaker 1: was it was Jam, Big and Nasar. Those were the cats.
Speaker 1: Um I love it. Oh man, wow, man, your top five,
Speaker 1: you're top five. I think I think Jay, yeah, Big
Speaker 1: Paul and everybody top five yea. And then I'm giving oslove.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm giving and and I ain't mad at Snoop
Speaker 1: bro Hell yeah. Longevity at exactly it means a lot,
Speaker 1: it does. I know some cat came to me it
Speaker 1: was like, what about l L He had more longevity
Speaker 1: than anybody when it comes to l made it respect
Speaker 1: us there but and I'm not saying that he's not,
Speaker 1: but in my top five, that's that's that's it. That's solid. Now,
Speaker 1: seeing that you're coaching, you gotta kind of stay hip
Speaker 1: to ship because you you know, you're around a bunch
Speaker 1: of teenagers who's artists or songs on repeat for you
Speaker 1: right now. J Yeah, Drake really is on him and
Speaker 1: him a little baby right now. Two artists that are
Speaker 1: really on fire right now. Definitely on fire. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: we always asked this questions, so I guess and once
Speaker 1: we asked this question, just before you answer, when you
Speaker 1: answer the question, if you have any plugs on your answer,
Speaker 1: then we have to use them. Okay, we need it,
Speaker 1: We have to. Okay, who do you think should be
Speaker 1: a guest on our show on All the Smoke? Man?
Speaker 1: You guys have had so many people our first year, Babe,
Speaker 1: we just gets you started, y'all rolling. Um, let's see.
Speaker 1: I think that if I was watching the show, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be an athlete, it would be somebody else, because
Speaker 1: like somebody on the level of of a Jay Z
Speaker 1: or Will Smith. Yes, yes, yeah like that, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that your fans and plus me, I'm a fan.
Speaker 1: I would love to see that and see you guys
Speaker 1: kind of ask them questions on how they feel the
Speaker 1: out sports. You know what they did? You know, I
Speaker 1: think don't get either one of those guys on there,
Speaker 1: that's amazing if you got if you gotta plug on
Speaker 1: either sentence, who is in your eyes the most underrated player,
Speaker 1: uh in the game right now? Most underrated player? I
Speaker 1: think Drew Holiday. Everybody, everybody, everybody says Drew Holiday. That's insane.
Speaker 1: The reason why I say that is because I watched
Speaker 1: a lot of film on him. I know Patrick Beverley
Speaker 1: is known as that dog, but he does what Patrick
Speaker 1: Beverley does, which is a huge compliment. Quieter, quietly, quiet
Speaker 1: he gets it and he's hard to guard. Dog, He's
Speaker 1: hard to guard. I got another question. I want to
Speaker 1: pick it back that who in your time was one
Speaker 1: of the most underrated players that people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: but you're like, no, that motherfuck go Let's see who
Speaker 1: is Who's the most underrated player back then? Man, it's
Speaker 1: so many guys. Man, I'm trying to think guys that
Speaker 1: you were saying he was just okay, but he was
Speaker 1: really nice. I don't even think people knew how nice
Speaker 1: Nick Van Next, it was even though he was an
Speaker 1: all star, Tricky Nikki was. They don't even mention him
Speaker 1: when he comes to the top guards, but Tricky Nikki
Speaker 1: was killer him in college. Hey, that dude right there, man,
Speaker 1: he was serious. Yeah, it was. We all don't quarantine
Speaker 1: right now. Um, besides working out what are you binge watching?
Speaker 1: May you know what? For a minute, I watched Tiger
Speaker 1: King Old everything, All Americans Everything. I watched everything on
Speaker 1: Netflix that you can watch, Bro. I didn't watched the
Speaker 1: documentary about the basketball players and Saying Quentiny that Katie produced.
Speaker 1: I'm watched everything. I've watched everything on Netflix, Bro, I
Speaker 1: watched it all. Yeah, every Yeah. What's your what's your
Speaker 1: what's your favorite quarantine snack while you're binge watching? Man?
Speaker 1: What's my favorite snack? Probably I'm probably on the Pringles Bro,
Speaker 1: I'm a Pringles dude. Flavor Flavor barbecues fired him by
Speaker 1: the sour cream and chides was fired too? Favorite? Uh?
Speaker 1: Favorite retro sneaker, not including your own? Probably the Force one, Man.
Speaker 1: I really like the Forced I'm a Force guy. I
Speaker 1: like them retro forces. Man. Yeah. Yeah, Well we've come
Speaker 1: to Jack's favorite segment. Like he said, he's been missing
Speaker 1: out for a while. But I'm involved in this begging
Speaker 1: segment too, So Jack, go ahead and beg for the
Speaker 1: both of us. My brother, Well, this is my boy
Speaker 1: a long time. I never asked him for nothing, but
Speaker 1: I have to ask, either, is it possible that you
Speaker 1: can make this happen for me? I needed either paras
Speaker 1: signed shoes or signed jersey either or I needed for
Speaker 1: the carib I gotta have you up in the crib. Man.
Speaker 1: You got both, bro both, y'all got both. I got that.
Speaker 1: That's man. I appreciate that. I say that, but I
Speaker 1: need it for the carib I appreciate. Yeah, that's easy, man,
Speaker 1: come on, Bro's easy. We appreciate that. Man. Hey, man, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for your time. Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 1: Good luck once we get commencing and get back on
Speaker 1: the court to your upcoming seies. Like Jack said, me
Speaker 1: and Jack gonna come through. I got a couple of
Speaker 1: friends out in memph Is still I need to come visit,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna come check a game out and uh
Speaker 1: root for y'all. Man, But thank you for your time today. Now.
Speaker 1: I appreciate y'all so much. May number little, May anything
Speaker 1: y'all need for me, y'all got it and appreciate. And
Speaker 1: just know if you got any questions on any guys,
Speaker 1: you know I'm working at the AI game. You know
Speaker 1: I got your players, So just let me know if
Speaker 1: you need me to do anything for you. Got it,
Speaker 1: got you now, appreciate you all. That might be a
Speaker 1: violation anyway, that's a wrap special court Quarantine edition UH
Speaker 1: with one of my favorite players, Jack's favorite player, Penny Hardaway.
Speaker 1: We appreciate your time. You can catch this on Showtime Basketball,
Speaker 1: YouTube and all platforms, streaming podcasts, all of them. See
Speaker 1: you'all next week. It's something about how this place forms
Speaker 1: a different kind of person. On my high school team,
Speaker 1: we have five guys make the NBA. We had the
Speaker 1: County rock at you mentioned French Shorty's County. People know
Speaker 1: what it's about. It's the meta of basketball. There are
Speaker 1: those who come before us, upon whose shoulders we stand
Speaker 1: here for this area. You have to have tough skin.
Speaker 1: The gym became the thank you eg County guys provide
Speaker 1: buckets for America. Prince Georgian packs a lot of power,
Speaker 1: a lot of character. It's nothing that you can do
Speaker 1: to stop that competitive and we're pushing the community and
Speaker 1: a culture full. There's this in the water. H This
Speaker 1: life was all I ever wanted. I'm not leaving, not yet.
Speaker 1: I was hoping you'll say that we gotta hit the streets,
Speaker 1: make some money. Paple like us, Let's destroy people like him.
Speaker 1: Back up. Get Showtime free at showtime dot com.