WEBVTT - Ep. 184: BEAR GREASE [RENDER] - Final Donnie Baker Discussion 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.239 My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.400 the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.760 we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.600 of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.360 F Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.559 that's designed to be as rugged as the place as 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:43.400 we explore. So, Hey, we're gonna we're gonna do it 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.559 a little different this time. I'm gonna introduce everybody. We're 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.080 doing Spanish, but see we're gonna do it in Spanish. 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.959 We're gonna we're gonna talk about Donnie Baker first, we're 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.000 gonna go Usually the sequence of the Bear Grease Render 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.280 is introduced me Bull with chit chat, with small talk, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.240 and and then we like fight off the deep desire 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.479 to talk about the thing we're all here to talk about. 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:12.920 But we're not going to do that today. We're gonna 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.160 dive right in. I do have a very This is 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.080 a great crew. This is this is an exciting crew 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.679 to have multiple everybody's all been here, but it's not 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:28.479 the standard crew. I've got to my left Brent Reeves 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:34.040 and in the building is whaling the Wonder Dog Whaling, Jennings, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:35.120 Tree and Walker. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:39.920 Yes, just got back from Kansas. He was treating Kansas coons. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:45.280 Yeah, so Whalon and Brent are here, doctor miss newkom 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:47.840 So great to have you. Good to be here, yes, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.680 last Yeah, it's long story, but you're here. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:51.680 I'm happy I'm here. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:59.000 Yes to your to your left, my neighbor, hero and 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:05.000 national Pastured Poultry Icon Terrell Spencer, also known as Spence, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.080 my neighbor. Good to have your brother. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.800 Can I just help for a second. It's pastured. 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.320 These are not spiritual ministry to the chickens. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:16.239 They're not pastored. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:22.280 They are not pastored poultry, past poultry. You know I have. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.120 I have a former background in pastured poultry media. 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:29.560 Chicken feeds the World. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:35.760 Okay, we made a film years ago about pastor poultry. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:41.880 American Pastured Poultry Producers. It's a mouthful, it's a mouthful. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.840 Spence is also at one time was the National Rooster 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.919 Calling Champion of the a p p p A. It's 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.799 recently been the title has been stripped from him, given 0:02:53.840 --> 0:03:02.040 to Yes. This is a little bit outside the rails 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.240 of what we're here to talk about today. That's TERRYL. 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.280 Spencer to TERRYL. Spencer's laft Man. It's like Stack. This 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.040 is like the Dream Team. This is like nineteen ninety four, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:17.240 Michael Jordan's Magic, Johnson's Bird Keem Elijah Wan. We have 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:18.359 Joe Wilson with us. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:19.880 I'm here, Joe. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.400 I've got to introduce you, like if you're in this room, 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:27.480 like there's your life is much bigger than this, but 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.960 there's like one thing that's connected to you. Joe Wilson 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.160 of the World Championship Squirrel cookoff Man. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.720 I also live at the Squirrel Dairy. 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.440 Okay, you live at the Squirrel Dairy. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:40.560 We got to talk about Donnie Baker. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:46.600 Yeah, I got questions squirrel, mostly about technique. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:48.920 Coming down the tree. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:50.280 Well, you know what. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:55.240 They say about Mammelian you can anything. Yep, there you 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.360 go to your laugh. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.680 My friend, how can you follow that up? 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:08.040 James Brandenburg, Arkansas, Yeah, yeah, in Spanish head of Arkansas 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.960 b h A. And I'm gonna call you, uh just 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.600 for sake of clarity and simplicity, founder of the Black 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.520 Bear Bonanza, which isn't entirely true. But you have a 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.560 great team around you. We have a great team around 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.120 You're a part of the founding. I'm of the black. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.800 We'll go with that part of the founding for sure. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:29.120 Yeah. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.040 No, James James has uh he's been on He was 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:37.320 on the Old Bear Honting magazine podcast. And Uh, I 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:42.080 like to talk at James. That's what James is like 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.680 a good face. He gives good James is like a 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.760 high level corporate exec. 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:49.080 Uh. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.440 You wouldn't know it by looking at him. You wouldn't 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.359 know by looking at this humble man. Uh No, I'm kidding, no, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.599 but for real, James's high level business exec in the 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:05.840 high reps of American industry, industry captain of industry in 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.960 India next week for real. Uh, great to have you, 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.839 thank you sir. But I was getting at why I 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.440 like to talk to James. What I'm learning that's gonna 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.880 be relevant in next week's podcast is how oh wow, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.039 what a rabbit trail. People that are really good in 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:25.520 business are are good listeners. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:26.960 Some people. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:28.280 He's also a good talker. 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:30.640 Sometimes he's also. 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:31.000 A good talker. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:31.800 Uh. 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.160 And my name's Clay nukem. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:37.480 Man. 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.240 So Donnie Baker, we're gonna we're gonna do the order 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.960 a little bit different. I wanna I just want to 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.440 jump right into it. YEA almost don't. I don't want 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.560 to give a spiel, so I'm not. I want to 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:51.280 hear your first impressions. 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.440 My impression is as I sent Brent Reeves a message 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.919 the other day, telling this was your best work. Huh. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:07.479 Everything leading up to this was fantastic, great history, amazing stories. 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.240 But this story I think went way deeper than a 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.640 guy shooting at two hundred and four inch buck. And 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.000 I think it gives guidance to all of us in 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.400 our life because that buck, as we found out in 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:27.680 episode two, it was just one little thing that led 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.520 up to the story, and you could substitute that buck 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.279 for all kinds of problems in your life. But yeah, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.719 I thought it was fantastic. You did a great job. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:38.800 Donnie Baker could be my friend any day. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:44.440 Yeah, that's what's That's what. There's so many parts of 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.880 this the are so interesting to me. And I learned 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.440 this story in the same way really that the listener did. Like, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.400 this is not a story that I grew up with. 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.520 I didn't know Donnie. I knew very little about his 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.400 story before I went to his house to told him 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.920 before the podcast. I said, Donnie, I don't know if 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.520 I can use this or not. It was because I 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.560 didn't know the whole story, and I was trying to 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.920 evaluate what story was kind of sitting in front of me. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.480 I knew it was interesting. I'm interested in big deer, 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.040 I'm interested in apparently, I'm interested in people that break 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:30.880 the law. And I honestly I told him that. I said, Donnie, 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.640 I'm not sure I can use this, but I want 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.120 to talk to you. And he was like, that's great, Clay, 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.800 it'd be I'm glad to tell a story. You do 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.120 whatever you got to do. If you can use it, 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.560 use it. If you can't, no problem. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.080 But it was pretty obvious as you went along though, 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.040 I mean, I'm sure as you were talking to him, 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.640 the what was the interesting part about what happened to him? 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.640 Because it I'm sure as you were talking to him 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.680 it was you know, you can sit and talk to 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:03.840 somebody and hear a story of them killing a big 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:08.080 deer and be like, oh, that's cool. But then as 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.160 you kind of brought us all along in it and 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.760 kind of I mean, what I appreciated about it. To 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.560 Joe's point, I thought it was your best work that 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.720 you've done so far, and you helped us see all 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.800 the different components of it, like a rope that all 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.440 kind of braided together to make the story of his life. 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.760 And they all had to be there to get him 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:37.280 where he is today. Yea, And we lose that a 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.240 lot of times when we hear stories about this or 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.959 we just see the headline kills man poaches giant deer. Yes, 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.640 there's way, way, way more to it. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.920 And see that's a good point. And what's interesting I 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.400 said it. I didn't say it on the first render. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.120 I'll say it on this render. I did less in 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.920 the interview with Donnie Baker than I ever do with someone. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.800 I was wondering that if it all fell together, Hey, that. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.680 Was his story that he put together all on his own. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.800 I mean, sometimes you hear someone's story and people are 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.000 so close to it and an outside eye comes in 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.520 and you kind of put it together. Yeah, and the 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.040 person hears it and they're like, yeah, yeah, that's like 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.839 it's it. That's the way it happened. But maybe there 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.560 was some conclusions. I don't know, there's some there's some 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.880 things that you kind of weave together. Donnie Baker told that. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:36.720 I asked Donnie Baker honestly one question, and that was, 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:39.480 how where do you think we should start? 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:39.920 Donnie? 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.400 I intentionally left that in, which I usually would have 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.120 cut it out. I intentionally left that in because I 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.280 asked him that, and he started talking, and I was 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.040 a part of the conversation, like I I, you know, 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.880 asked him specifically about you know, just questions like what 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:56.520 were you thinking? 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.360 Did you? Uh? 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.480 You know, I did ask him questions, But I'm telling 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.920 you he started talking and he ended, and I talked 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.000 to him for two hours. So you guys heard I 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.080 think twenty seven minutes of Donnie. These are things on 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.080 the editorial side that I see. On the first episode, 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.119 you heard Donnie talk for twenty seven minutes. The episode 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.959 was fifty five minutes long, so you heard me talk 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.720 for as long as you heard Donnie talk story of 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:27.360 Missy's life. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:30.719 I still pretty good average. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.680 On the second episode, we only heard Donnie talk for 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.160 twenty two minutes, so you heard about half of the interview. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.000 But that's what made the most sense to me. And 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.400 even the sequence of it. A lot of times on 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.959 a story, I have to sequence it, like maybe they 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.320 tell something that actually chronologically came at the end, but 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.840 that needs to be in the beginning to make sense. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.160 It sounded like he was loaded up and ready to 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:05.520 fire for a while. Yeah, and you become that broadcast 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.720 that would air it out to like minded people, and 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:10.960 which I think. 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:11.679 You did well. 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.520 But he needed to get it out there, and maybe 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.080 it was to get it out there once and for 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.120 all to show people this is who I was, it's 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.240 who I am, and maybe you don't need to walk 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.760 down the same road as I walked down, which I 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.640 think that's how I took it personally, like he was 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:35.720 showing us everybody's got a little outlaw in him, and 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.120 he used it that day. Found out he didn't want 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:40.880 to be an outlaw anymore, you know. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.520 I think the second he released that arrow, he knew 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.520 And when he said that in the first episode, Clay 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.840 that part and I texted you this, the part about 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.320 I'm sure we've all you know, shot at a bird 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.280 on a tree limit. Yeah, I mean that was just 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.360 like that was just like he had cracked from my 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.840 head and looked inside and like read my life story 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.920 or something, you know. I remember, uh, you know the 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.840 first I think the first animal that I ever killed 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.760 as a little kid, you know, shooting a bb gun. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.439 I shouldn't have been shooting in a place I shouldn't 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.839 have been shooting it, and how I felt, and and 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.720 it just took me right back to that moment, and 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.240 I was like, I knew, I know exactly how he 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.840 felt when he let that arrow go. He he just 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.840 had walked up to the edge of something to see 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:39.200 if he could do it. Yeah, and just in that 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:46.040 split second, temptation overcame him and the arrow flew and 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:50.520 he instantly, like when Adam took a bite of the apple. 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.640 He knew there was no going back to buy clothes. 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:57.199 Yeah, dang it. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:02.440 Well, in that the analogy of shooting a bird and 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:10.760 regretting it immediately probably could be a major literary mechanism 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.240 in a book to just describe what all of us 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.000 have felt, whether you've actually killed an animal or not, 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.000 but just that instantaneous regret, even in the act of 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.240 something that you know you can't take back. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.400 I shot that bird. You shoot that bird? 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:26.959 Yep. 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.520 I remember shooting that bird. And it was so light 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.360 that it stayed on the leaf. It is just a 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:38.000 little yellow bird. And I remember crying at that bird, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.680 going in grabbing my mom's gravy spoon, digging a hole, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.440 putting that little bird in there, and saying, I ain't 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.760 ever going to shoot a bird again. And that lasted 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:48.360 about an hour. 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:51.120 Maybe it's yellow bird. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.959 I just I remember when I heard it, just like you, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.160 I knew exactly what shooting that bird mean. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.520 Anybody a lot of folks could identify with that wouldn't 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.280 Maybe wasn't even killing the animal. Maybe it was cheating 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.160 on a test at school and you get home and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.600 you make you make a hundred on it, and you 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.120 get home and your mama's so proud of you, and 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.200 then you realize, you know, I didn't do that right, 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.600 She'm proud of me. She's proud of that kid that 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.920 was sitting beside me that I copied off of, which 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.920 is me. People can people copied off of me in school? Up, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:24.680 they're in prison now. 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.240 Spence, what do you think just like first impressions. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.040 Yeah, I just I felt like it was almost cleansing 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.040 for him, Like I didn't see it so much he 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.000 was telling everybody. I felt like more like he was 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.160 doing it for himself. And I've had stuff that I've 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.640 done that I'm ashamed of, you know, I mean, we 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.920 all have. And I think there's just you know, I've 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.080 got a church group and even just a couple of 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.560 years ago going through stuff that had been hidden, and 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.440 I've seen other guys share that, Like it's just it's 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.640 cleansing to get that, to unburden yourself. But and I 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.120 don't know, I think I I saw it more as 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.280 Donnie was doing this for Donnie than he was to 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.160 like clear his name or anything. And that might be 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.640 me putting my own stuff on it, but yeah, that 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.880 was just initially what I and I just you know, 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:19.400 I just appreciate when people change, you know, like and 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.720 so often people change for the worst, and it's rare 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.120 to see a grown man just completely change. And it 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.840 wasn't just that, it's you know, later he talked about 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.160 his wife having cancer, and he talked about, you know, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.320 he was a knucklehead with as a family. He wasn't 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.200 leading his family, his horsing around, not taking it serious. 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.680 But even that, you know, it's like he got popped 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.880 again in life and instead of shrinking back or collapsing 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.400 in on himself, he kind of rose up. And it's 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.120 just really admirable to me, you know, so I admired 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:49.560 him for that. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.360 Yeah, Miss NUKEM. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.600 Well, you know, I think it's a it's it's really 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.040 fascinating to me to see the impact that the stories 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.240 had on people. And I've wondered a lot, like why 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.920 is this story different? Because I do think that not 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.080 every story that every poacher tells it's going to be 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.960 this no endearing, you know, like it's not going to 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.680 have this impact. And I don't think everyone responds this way. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.000 And I don't think that everyone. I think that there's 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.680 like all these events in Donnie's life, uh, that that 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.160 kind of shape a person. And and that's what you're 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.320 The Donnie that we're hearing from in this podcast is 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.280 a different person than the Donnie that that shot the deer. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.920 And there's a whole range of things that happened that 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.360 produced who's talking on this podcast. And so to me, 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:41.320 it's kind of fascinating to watch, honestly, like the power 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.120 of suffering and whether whether that suffering is directly linked 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.000 to him shooting this deer or not, Like the wife, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:53.200 his wife's that situation that's not necessarily that's not it's 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.680 not like that is an outcome of this what he 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.480 did with the deer, but that it produced something in 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.760 him and that change just perspective of how he saw 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.359 that part of his life. And I think that, you know, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.560 suffering is a very humbling thing. And he did suffer 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.560 from what the dear situation, and he did suffer from 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.479 these other situations. And I think that humility is something 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.600 that when you see it in people, you can you 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:28.359 can you can relinquish a lot of a lot of guilt, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.480 a lot of blame, a lot of you can like 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.040 you can take it away from them, you know you can. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.040 It does, And I don't know why, but I think 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.159 it does produce something in people if they, you know, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.840 depending because some people get bitter when they suffer, some 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.399 people get angry when they suffer. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.359 But if you if you can let it. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.000 Shape you, you know, like a like a river in 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.600 a canyon, then it can actually produce something really good. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.640 And and to me, I think that's the the thing 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.439 that I see inside of this is that suffering produce 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:07.280 something in him that people want, people find endearing. It 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.280 moves people, and uh and you can almost it allows 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.240 you to look at his life differently than just seeing 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.479 that that thing that happened. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.239 I was going to try to say the same thing 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:19.679 you were but I'm not a doctor. 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:31.320 Is there more? 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.800 Well, that's that's all I was I was going to say, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:35.840 is just I think that that's what That's the thing 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.840 that's actually impacting here is what that produces. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.760 The theme of human suffering is something that man since 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.720 the beginning of time, and all cultures and all literature 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:52.320 and all movies, in all conversations. It's the theme of mankind. 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:59.040 It's suffering. And and it's so ironic because the intent 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.480 of every warning, every human life. We wake up and 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.399 we try not to suffer. I mean, we try to 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.560 do things that are beneficial for our families, that are 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.520 beneficial for us. We we we try to avoid suffering. 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.639 But the ironic thing is is that suffering is actually 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.800 the crucible in which character and all the things that 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.080 actually matter in life yeah happen. I mean, there's just 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.119 no way around it. And and and how we respond 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.119 to that that difficult and suffering could be described is 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.639 not always like the death of someone really close to you. 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:37.320 Suffering is comes in. It's scalable at all levels. Scalable too, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:38.560 you know. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.879 It's all relative to what what what you're talking about exactly. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.480 I Mean, there's really big macro suffering of yeah, like 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.400 the death of a family member or or you have 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.720 cancer yourself, down to suffering of you know, you don't 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.920 get to go eat out because you're you're saving money 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.320 and you're you're you're you're sacrificing for something, and some 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.760 people could be that as some level of suffering or whatever. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.280 But yeah, what what stood out to you, Brent about it? 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.679 This like the if you could Okay, let me let 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.680 me say this. I have never gotten in it one 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:17.159 single day and probably never will again. The amount of 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.480 text messages from grown men, some of them in this room, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.320 who texted me or messaged me contacted me saying that 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:26.960 they cried in their. 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.720 Truck about the walk in the Lows. 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.120 Yeah, it was. 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:33.880 A little awkward. 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.760 I was in the in the you know what. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.320 I called you right after I was in the I 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.760 was still in the driveway and just listened to it. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.040 And I was already getting text messages from other people 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.399 that don't have your phone numbers, like this is the 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.320 best one I've ever heard. So I when I quit 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.080 sniveling enough that I could make sense and give you 0:20:54.160 --> 0:21:01.360 a call. It's such a human story. Yeah, there's no 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:07.000 way you can live on this planet to an adulthood 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:12.520 and not be able to identify with hardship and levels 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.280 of it. If the worst thing that ever happened to 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.400 that guy was him shooting a two hundred and four 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:19.600 inch deer and getting. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.359 Caught being fired one hundred and fourteen dollars, he. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.560 Would be a happy guy. But that is an insignificant blip. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.800 It ain't even a ripple in the hardship of life 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.600 that he had to go through and put. He put 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.760 all that stuff in perspective, and to me it was 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:45.040 I was endearing with his navigation of hardship and keeping 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.520 his eyes focused on his kids. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:50.040 Kids. 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.080 To me, are that's what I have fought for for 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.240 my whole life, my whole career. I was fighting every 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.560 day to try to take care of a kid that 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:04.080 somebody else wasn't taken care of, and that the focus 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:10.320 on that is what really stood out to me. Because 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.520 he had he didn't have every right. No one ever 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:22.200 has or the right to be bitter that they have excuse, 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:23.960 they have reasons why they're bitter. 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.560 You, I don't think you have the right to be better. 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.000 I don't think you earn a right. 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.840 To be bitter and hard and cold, but he had 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:35.960 every reason that he could have been that way, but 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.760 he chose to keep going, fighting through, fighting through it. 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.439 And I still say, I still hold my gun, you know, 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:45.520 I'm I am so. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:48.720 For the law enforcement. 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:53.000 Yes that if you plead not guilty to something and 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.080 then you get found guilty, they ought to try you 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:59.600 again for perjury because obviously you lied. I don't think 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:02.960 this guy as a poacher. I think he was he 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.439 violated the law. I think he's a violator. A poacher 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:08.800 to me is somebody that leaves their house with intent 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:10.159