1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours, breaking 2 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: news in the murderers of a mother and son in 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: South Carolina. The mom, Maggie Murdog, and her son seemingly 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: stirring the pot with his dad's legal dynasty. But while 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: we're both found dead outside the family hunting lodge, of 6 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 1: course we're talking about Alec Murdog. I'm Nancy Grace. This 7 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 8 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation. In Sirius XM one eleven. Let's kick 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: it off with Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Dave Mack. 10 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: The unsolved murder of Alex Murdaugh's wife, Maggie and son 11 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: Paul is getting closer to being solved. Fitznews is reporting 12 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: sources close to the investigation say that physical forensic evidence 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: directly ties Alex Murdo to the double hamas side Fitznews 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: sighting sources close to the investigation claims Alex Murdoch is 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: the only person identified as a person of interest. On 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: June seven, twenty twenty one, Alex Murdoch called nine one 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: one round ten oh seven pm to report that he 18 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: had found the bodies of his fifty two year old 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: wife Maggie and twenty two year old son Paul. Now, 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: according to Pal Murdoch's death certificate, he was killed by 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: death certificate has been obtained for Maggie Murdoy yet, but 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Fitznews claims she was shot and killed by a semi 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: automatic rifle around the same time as her son was killed. 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: With us and I'll star panel to make sense of 25 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: what we know right now. High profile lawyer out of 26 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: LA Troy Slayton, forensic psychologist, author of Criminal Behavior and 27 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, Professor forensics, 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on 29 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: Amazon and Starving Unit series Bodybacks, with Joseph Scott Morgan 30 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: joining us, but straight out to Dave Matt Crime online 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, Dave, I mean, I don't know 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: that I need a forensics expert to tell me there's 33 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: gonna be evidence linking Alec Murdog to the dead bodies 34 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: of his wife and his son. And I'll tell you why, Dave. 35 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: We've talked about it several times off air. You have him, 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: Alec Murdog, then arranging a hit on himself. Remember that 37 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: when he's found bleeding from the head out on a 38 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: rural road. Nothing he said made any sense about changing 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: his tire, and then he said some guys came along 40 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: and took a shot at him. Turns out his dope 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: dealer was paid to shoot him in the head. Now, 42 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: think about it. Think about it, Dave mac This is 43 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: just weeks after his wife and son are shot in 44 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: the head execution style. Wow, I wonder who orchestrated that. 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: So you're telling me, Dave Matt that there are reports 46 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: not of just deduction such just what I just did 47 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: two and two equals four, but sual physical forensic evidence 48 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: linking Alec Murdog to the double murder. Absolutely, Nancy. Here's 49 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: what we've got. At least one of the weapons used 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: in the double homicide of Maggie and Paul Murdoch belonged 51 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: to the Murdoch family. We've got deputies finding shellcasings at 52 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: the scene that they're obviously matching to at least one 53 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: of the guns. But two different guns were supposedly used. 54 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: One was a semi automatic rifle. We've got agents on 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: the scene at that are searching a river, the Salkahatchie River, 56 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: swampy area approximately two miles south of Mozelle that are 57 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: getting more evidence, and we've got again this evidence that 58 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: ties all of this together. Maggie Murdoch's cell phone is 59 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: found along a rural South Carolina road just outside the 60 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: family's seventeen hundred acre hunting lodge the day after the murder. 61 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: All of that put together is what we're dealing with 62 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: in terms of physical evidence. So you're saying that from 63 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: those items and whatever they've dredged up out of the Sakahatchie, 64 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: you're saying that it's your belief that on those items 65 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: is the physical evidence they're talking about. And not only that, 66 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: not only that way, what about a potential gunshot residue 67 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: test they may have done on Alex Murdock at the 68 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: time he found his dead wife and son. And did 69 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: you mention that they towed the company vehicle that night 70 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: and processed it. Did you say that, Dave mac i 71 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: am now that they actually did impound It was a 72 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one Chevy Suburban that was registered to the 73 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: Murdoch Law firm. And all of this is being reported 74 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: through Fitz News, that's where we're getting this information. Nancy 75 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: Law enforcement on the scene that night, that all of 76 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: this evidence that we know how this works out from 77 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: a ballistic standpoint to the residue test. The police are 78 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: playing this so close to the vest, but we're getting 79 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: enough information to be able to tie it together to 80 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: see these links are all pointing back to Alex murdog. Guys, 81 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to Alex Murdock's 82 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: nine one one call our cut twenty five d forty 83 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: one forty seven Mozell Roads. I need to believe my 84 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: wife and Scott badness. Okay, you said forty one forty 85 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: seven multile rold In Knowltans, Sir, you said forty one 86 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: forty seven Moulzel rod In Olten, Yes, sir, forty one 87 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: Mozel Roads. Yeah, thirsty on the line with me, okay, okay. 88 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: On a communication and I have an Alex Murdoch on 89 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: a line, caller from forty one forty seven Moza Road. 90 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: He's advising that his wife and child was shot. Okay, 91 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: one forty seven Mozelle Road. I've been up to it 92 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: now is bad okay? Okay? And are they breathing? No 93 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: Mariam okay? And he said it's your wife and your son, 94 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: my wife, and my scorn. Are they in a vehicle, No, ma'am, 95 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: their own ground out at my canel, Jackie. Do they 96 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: have the death penalty in South Carolina? I'm pretty sure 97 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: that they do. Okay, Troy Slayton, high profile lawyer joining 98 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: me out of la Hey. How is it out there 99 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: on road? Jo Drive? It's a beautiful day out here 100 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: in sunny southern California, Nancy m Okay, we tried to 101 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: give Alex Murdog the benefit of the doubt. Well, okay, 102 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: you tried. But now that I know, as I suspected, 103 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: long suspected, he is the one that finds the dead bodies. 104 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: He is the one that owns the residents where they're found. 105 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: He's the one looking at a big, fat, juicy divorce 106 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: from a wife who is likely to uncover during her 107 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: discovery process, her legal discovery process, that he has been 108 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: embezzling money from all of his clients and sniffing it 109 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: up his nose for years. It's all going to come 110 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: out in her divorce. And they are Murdog guns. We 111 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: learned that on day one. A source told us day 112 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: one that at least one of the guns was a 113 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: murdog gun all right, so what more do I need 114 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to know? For Pete's sake? Then he stayed, chose his 115 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: own suicide, botched, I might add, and lies through his 116 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: teeth about it until we find out his doper friend 117 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: is the one that grazed his head. I mean, he's 118 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: lying about everything. Remember even his lawyer came out and 119 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: actually said he had brain damage. He showed up in 120 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: court the next week. He didn't even have on did 121 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: he have on a band aid? That's some brain injury. 122 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: Troye Slayton. I mean, what more do you need to know? 123 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: This man is light about everything, and he's the one 124 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: that faces a pecuniary Jane money Jane with the death 125 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: of his wife and son. And now we have Dave 126 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: mac telling us that reports are Alex murdog is linked 127 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: forensically physical evidence. I'm talking about fingerprints and DNA to 128 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the double murders. And now when I listen to that 129 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: nine one one call, I mean, I'm taking that with 130 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: a box assault. Troye Slayton. Well, we're being told that 131 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: the evidence is substantial, that it's serious, but we don't 132 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: know exactly what that physical evidence connection is yet to 133 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: Alex Murdock. What's interesting is that a different gun was 134 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: used in each one of the murders at the time 135 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: of that double homicide that happened at the same time. 136 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: Why would somebody, why would one individual use two different 137 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: guns on two people at the same time. It doesn't 138 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: make sense. Well, it may not make sense, but does 139 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: it make sense to murder your wife and son? Does 140 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: that make sense to you? Troyce Letton. Criminals do all 141 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,239 Speaker 1: sorts of crazy things. It's not up to a prosecutor 142 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: to lurt around inside a killer's mind and figure out why. 143 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: But things have to make sense. And the problem that 144 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: the prosecutors have here is they could just confuse the jury. 145 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: They're charging him right now with fifty one counts. That 146 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: means fifty one separate crimes and fifty one sets of 147 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: elements that a jury would have to go through. Try 148 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: and conic right, don't cut it yet, Troy Slay. The 149 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: current charges relate to what the fifty one counts you're 150 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: referring to. Referred to possible embezzlement and misappropriation of funds 151 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: from his grandfather and great grandfather and father's law firm 152 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: that was set up for a hundred years and clients 153 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: and clients who are now finding out that he apparently 154 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: Dave mac is there a report embezzle funds from a 155 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: client that was paraplegic and brain damaged. Actually, he was 156 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: a young man who was death who was in a 157 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: car accident with his mother and another friend who the 158 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: accident left him as a paraplegic and in a home. 159 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: And Murdaugh is alleged to have taken all of the 160 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: money over three hundred thousand dollars that was due for 161 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: the death paraplegic man's family, as well as they from 162 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: his demand's mother and the other person in the car. 163 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of dollars intended to go to this family. Yeah, 164 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: that was a little TMI, but I'll take it. You 165 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: can never know enough facts, Dave mac. But what you 166 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: told me actually just made me feel a little nauseous. 167 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: So Troice Layton, My point is before I dragged Dave 168 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: mc into this, is that all the counts he's got 169 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: right now, many of my defendis to say, miss Grace, 170 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: I caught a little felony, like it just happened. Somebody 171 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: threw it at you. The fifty one counts he's facing 172 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: right now. Are all of a white collar crime crime nature, 173 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: such as ambezzlement. Those are not going to be tried 174 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: with a potential murder charge, as you will know Troice Layton. 175 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: They will be severed. Just like in the recent Juline 176 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: Maxwell case, the persury counts in her indictment were not 177 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: brought in front of the jury. They were only looking 178 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: at counts regarding child molestation. The accounts are severed and 179 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: they will be tried separately. And that is what would 180 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: happen here if Alan Murdock is ever tried for murder. 181 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: Do you disagree with that? It's possible unless there's no 182 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: other co defendants. If it's only Alex Murdoch who is 183 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: the defendant, If he's the only one charged with all 184 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: the crimes, then there may not be separate crime. Well there, 185 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: Grennis severed. Just you know what, I'm not a bating person. 186 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,359 Speaker 1: Murdoch has not yet been charged with the double homicide 187 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: of his wife and child. Okay, we know that, we 188 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: know that, we know he has charge yet, so let's 189 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: don't waste the little bit of time we all have 190 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: to gather telling us something we already know. He hasn't 191 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: been charged yet. All we have right now is reported 192 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: that there is direct forensic evidence linking him to the 193 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: double murders of Maggie and Paul, his wife and son. 194 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: And I'm not a batting person, but I will publicly 195 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: bet you dollar that if this case moves forward with 196 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: murder charges, the other embezzlement and financial charges will be 197 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: severed and tried on another day. Are you willing to 198 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: take that on? Are you tough enough? Slayton? I'm willing 199 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: for one dollar? Absolutely, man. Okay, well, you saw it 200 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: backfired in trading places, so I gotta be careful. Crime 201 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. I want to go circle back now, 202 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: listen to this more of this nine one one call. 203 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: You just heard from Dave Mike that there are now 204 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: reports that direct physical evidence. What that means, there's direct 205 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: and there's circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence is like an eyewitness 206 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: DNA finger prepped. Okay. Circumstantial evidence is you are at 207 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. You're the one that reported 208 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: the murders, You're the one that has a motive, You're 209 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: your glove was found there on the scene. That doesn't 210 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: a murder make So that's what we know right now, 211 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: and with that as a backdrop Joe Scott Morgan and 212 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz. I want you to take a listen 213 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: to more of Alex Murdog's nine one one call when 214 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: he seemingly found his wife and son Paul dead, shot 215 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: dead behind his hunting lodge with a Murdog gun. Take 216 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty six. Okay, no, no one, okay, no, maam, no, maam? 217 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: House on the outside? What color is your house on 218 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: the outside? Why you can't see it from the road. Okay, 219 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: is the house or mobile home? That's the house? Okay? 220 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: And what is your name? My name's Alec Murdoch. Okay, 221 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: did you hear anything or did you come home and 222 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: find them? I've been gone. I just came back house. No, ma'am. 223 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: We hurry. We're getting somebody out there to you. Okay. 224 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: When you listen to that, knowing what we now know? 225 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: What what I'd like to know? And I asked this 226 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: on day one to you. Joseph's got Morgan death investigator, 227 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: a forensics expert. How could they what time's my time 228 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: window for the time of death? And that's so important 229 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: because Alex Murdoch said that he was at the hospital 230 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: seeing his sick father, who passed away a few days later. 231 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: I need to know what time he was there, the 232 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: drive time between the hospital and the hunting lodge, and 233 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: the time of death. How do I know Maggie and 234 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: Paul weren't shot three hours before he went to the hospital. 235 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: How do I know they weren't shot just before he 236 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: called nine one one, placing him virtually at the scene 237 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: of the crime at the time the murders occurred. The 238 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: time of death is crucial, It's critical. What about it, 239 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yeah, we might you might not know. We 240 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: might not know, but slid does. When they showed up 241 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,239 Speaker 1: at that scene, Nancy, one of the things that's Carolina 242 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division, go ahead. Yeah, they began to do 243 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: a post mortem assessment of the bodies. Simply, what that 244 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: means is they're going to check for all those things 245 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: we look for, Nancy, the rigidity of the body, how 246 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: stiff it is relative to riger mortis post mortem levidity, 247 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: which is settling the blood. And also also they're going 248 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: to check the body temperature. Now, the reason those things 249 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: are important is that we can kind of theoretically timestamp 250 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: each one of those events. So the further, for instance, 251 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: with algor mortis or the body temperature changes for the 252 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: first hour after death, our bodies generally lose one point 253 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: five to two degrees of our total core body temperature 254 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: in that first hour. After that it bleeds off one 255 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: degree one degree for twelve hours, all right, So if 256 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: you think that the body may have been down for 257 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, we're looking maybe the body when they 258 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: do the body core temperature is maybe at ninety degrees. 259 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: Then we could suppose that perhaps these bodies had been 260 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: down anywhere from seven to eight hours at that point 261 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: in time. And Joe Scott, when the algorithm you're using 262 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: vary based on the ambiance temperature, the temperature, yeah, it does, 263 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: it does. And you know the way I explained it 264 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: is that after that twelfth hour, Nancy, we become an 265 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: inanimate object. All of the energy we generated has burned 266 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: off at that point in time. So we're completely and 267 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: totally subject to the environmental or the ambient environment in 268 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: which we're in, and that's going to dictate what the 269 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: temperature of the body is. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 270 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: What they need to look at, God willing they did 271 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: is the rigor mortis rigor mortis, which means the stiffening 272 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: of the limbs, the libra mortis, which is the settling 273 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: of the blood. And what I mean by that is, 274 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: if you die on your back, your blood is no 275 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: longer pumping through your body, and it will all settle 276 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: down to the lowest common denominator, like a glass of water, 277 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: and I'll go to the bottom of the glass. Same things, 278 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: body temperature and what else. Well, well, when we you know, obviously, 279 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: when they get back to the more to do the autopsy, 280 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna look at stomach content too, and that's a 281 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: measurable that that moves at a measurable rate from our 282 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, relative to our digestion. So if they ate 283 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: at six o'clock that night, and depended upon what they ate, 284 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: you can expect, you know, perhaps the stomach to have 285 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: been full, all right, because that at that point in time, 286 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: peristalis is going to stop. The food's going to stop 287 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: moving through the body. Yeah, and so it's going to 288 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: be using medical terms. Nobody else on this panel is 289 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: a medical doctor. Please talk and regular people talk. Yeah, Well, 290 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: if you've already impressed me, okay, you don't have to 291 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: impress what I do want to impress though, is this 292 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: this idea of the settling of the blood, Nancy, Because 293 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: if somebody monkeyed around with those bodies and move the 294 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: bodies around during the night, Oh well, I gotta write 295 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: that down, Troye Layton. I'm going to circle back to 296 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: you with that. If the scene was staged, if the 297 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: bodies had been moved, he's dead in the water, I'm 298 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: telling you. Because a random killer would not think to 299 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: drag the bodies around or pose them in a certain way. 300 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: That has to be a known killer. Okay, hold on, 301 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: got that was it staged? Go ahead, Sorry, just Scott, 302 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: That's all right. So you know, post mortem lavidity actually 303 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: start sooner than any or he's appreciable sooner than any 304 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: of these other things. So if say, for instance, the 305 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: young Mardal was laying face down, okay, post mortem lavidity 306 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: would have begun to be appreciable within twenty minutes of death, Nancy. 307 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: The question is is that after you get outside of 308 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: that four hour window and you've moved the body, it 309 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: no longer migrates at that time. What about coagulation of 310 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: blood If the blood had already dried or not dried 311 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: on the wounds. What would that tell you, Joe Scott Morgan, Well, yeah, 312 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: because that again, that's going to be environmentally dependent, bearet 313 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: the relative humidity and all that sort of thing. It's 314 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: different being outdoors, so you would have to have all 315 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: of that information in order to computate that. So that's 316 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: going to be less reliable. So if you're thinking that 317 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: the physical evidence they're now saying they've got linking him 318 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: of what I don't really get it is if they've 319 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: got physical evidence linking then why haven't they charged him? 320 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: What do you think the physical evidence is? Could there 321 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: be a fingerprint on the shell casing, could there be 322 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: a fingerprints on the guns? You know what I think 323 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: it is. And here's my big reveal on this. I 324 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: think this might have something to do with blood stains. 325 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: And the reason I think that is that remember what 326 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: Dave said, the young one, he took two shotgun wounds, Nancy. 327 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: So if you've got an individual, the perpetrator, who is 328 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: in a dominant position with a twelve gay shotgun, I 329 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: don't know if that's the gage or not, and they're 330 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: standing over this individual shot in the chest and the head. 331 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: Guess what happens? You get a dynamic event with blood staining. 332 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: The higher the velocity, the tinier the blood stain. Okay, 333 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about very fine, all right, And that's going 334 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: to happen with a high velocity gunshot wound. So just suppose, 335 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: just suppose, for instance, he's kneeling over the body and 336 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: he clutches his dear son to his chest. That's gonna 337 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: be transferred blood. That's going to look different to the 338 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: people from the people which sled. When they see him 339 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: and they take those pictures of him at at the 340 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: lockup or wherever they took him afterwards, and they take 341 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: his clothes, which they did, you're gonna have that fine bloodsting. 342 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz for psychologist, How often have we seen 343 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: the killer state that I tried to resuscitate them. I 344 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: clutched them, I held them to my chest, I hugged them. 345 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: That's how I got the blood transfer. Yes, exactly. That 346 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: that would probably be the natural place for him to go. 347 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: Something else that he said, not once, but twice. One 348 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: one call that's very striking to me is I've been 349 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: up to it now. It's bad to me. That sounds 350 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: like a confession. That's really interesting. I had not noticed that. 351 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: And doctor Sherry Sports, let me ask you a question. 352 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: I mean, you're the forensic psychologist, You're the one that 353 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: wrote Criminal Behavior and where law and psychology intersect. What 354 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: do you make of a little noticed fact that Maggie 355 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: Murdoch's phone was taken from the scene and discarded out 356 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: on the street. It's a good it's a good ways 357 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: I've been there from the home. There's a really long 358 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: driveway out to the road, and you can't see the 359 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: Murdog hunting lodge as they call it, from the street. 360 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: What do you make of the fact that the killer 361 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: took her phone number one and then threw it away 362 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: out on the street. I find that to be very 363 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: significant behaviorally speaking. I agree that is significant behaviorally speaking. Now, 364 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: he may try to say, or the defense may try 365 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: to say, well, that was somebody running away from the 366 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: crime scene with this particular evidence, but then why not 367 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: take other things? Really, what it suggests is possibly what 368 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is saying, that it might be somewhat 369 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: of a staged crime scene or you know, happened hours earlier, 370 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: and so somebody took the time to try to discard 371 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: some of this evidence. That was actually mean it said that. 372 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if to me it would make more 373 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: sense if, in fact he murdered his wife and son, 374 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: that he did it before the hospital visit, because how 375 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: could he orchestrate them both being there unless he planned it? 376 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: And what would be the significance of taking Maggie's cell 377 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: phone unless he wanted to erase something off the cell phone? 378 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: And exactly because this guy, doctor Sherry Schwartz, is so 379 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: messed up on drugs. I mean he's now, as you 380 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: heard defense attorney Troy Slayton state, he's got fifty one 381 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: embezzlement type counts against him right now. He's being investigated 382 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: regarding the deaths of multiple people, including a young man 383 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: that lived nearby, Stephen Smith, a housekeeper Gloria Satterfield. His 384 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: son Paul was involved in the death of a young girl, 385 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: Mallory Beach on the family boat. Who knows if this 386 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 1: guy had the wherewithal to re move fingerprints. And when 387 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about blood transfer, a blood transfer could be 388 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: explained away by the defendant saying, I hell them, I 389 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: hugged them, I tried to perform CPR. But as Joe 390 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan was talking about blood evidence. Blood spatter means 391 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: you were near the body at the time of the murder. 392 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: That fine spray of blood that is invisible to the 393 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: naked eye shows up on clothing if Sled got his 394 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:54,239 Speaker 1: clothing crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, I just have 395 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: to listen to more of the nine one one call 396 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: with the knowledge now it is, it's been released reports 397 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: that Alex Murdog is connected to the double murders of 398 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: his wife and son with direct physical forensic evidence. But 399 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: what is it now? Listen to him on this nine 400 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: one one call our cut twenty seven. Okay, what is 401 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: her name? Maggie? Maggie? And paul name Jeff, ma'am, and 402 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: please hurry. We're getting somebody out there to you asking 403 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: you these questions. Don't flow them down. Okay, are you 404 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: sure they're not breathing? Is he moving now? Your son? 405 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: I know he said that she was shot, but what 406 00:27:50,960 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: about your son? Nobody, they're not either one open. What 407 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: is your telephone number? Man? Not particularly really, no, ma'am. Okay, 408 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: Okay to Troy Slayton, we have to take into account 409 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: as we listen to this nine one one call. Now 410 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: alex a murrogue. Didn't he also call nine one one 411 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: after he was shot in the head and put up 412 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: much the same story that an unknown assailant had driven 413 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: by him and out of nowhere shot him in the 414 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: head and whoops, he lived. What about that? Is anybody 415 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: making that parallel? You're trying to say that this is 416 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: an Academy Award winning performance. Nancy, I'm saying it's been 417 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: It was rehearsed, okay, because didn't he wait, didn't he 418 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: call nine one one when he was shot on the 419 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: side of the road. Joe Scott, Yes, he did, Nancy, 420 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: sure did. And so this to me, as an investigator, 421 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a pattern developing. He got away with 422 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: the first time, potentially, and now he thinks he's going 423 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: to get away with it again. When he's feigning this 424 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: gunshot wound to the head. That's some unknown perpetrator, I mean, 425 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: Troy Slaton. Can't you just see a prosecutor playing all 426 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: these nine one one calls, especially the one on the 427 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: side of the road where the dope dealer confesses reportedly 428 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: that Mrnod hired him to shoot him, and hear Murnod 429 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: crying and carrying on on the phone, just like he's 430 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: doing here. And as a defense attorney, we would say 431 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: there is no playbook for the horror. Come up with 432 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: something new. Oh, I want to beat my head against 433 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: the wall. You say that every time? Would express once 434 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: they find some sort of horrific situation like his wife 435 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: and child being killed? But he sounds same Wayne in 436 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: his own nimal one call when he stays to shooting 437 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: on himself. Same thing, all that breathing and the gulping 438 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: and the whining, same exact thing. Let's go back to 439 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: the staging of the scene. Oh, you're gonna lie, Yeah, 440 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: it's something you want to talk about. Go ahead, I 441 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear this. So if there's physical evidence 442 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: that bodies were moved from the place where the murders 443 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: happened so that way they look like something else, then yes. 444 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: And if somehow Alex Murdoch is connected to that movement 445 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: of the bodies, that would be really damning evidence for him. 446 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: Would be a big whoop scene for you to explain 447 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: the next time we talk about this, wouldn't it unless 448 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: moving the body in order to perform some sort of 449 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: life saving measures. Moving the body in order to perform 450 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: CPR or to try and resuscitate them. See, that's why 451 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: you make all that money, because you just spun that 452 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: out of thin air like rumple steel skin. I mean, 453 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: you just spun it into goal. Amazing, amazing what you 454 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: just did right there. Guys, with all the knowledge were 455 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: we now are amassing, I'm really interested in these nine 456 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: one one calls. Take a listen to Alex and murnag 457 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: in our cut twenty eight. Are they close, ma'am? They've 458 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: been around with you ever since you've got on the 459 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: phone with me. I have multiple people coming out there 460 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: to you. Okay, I don't want you to touch them 461 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: at all. Okay, I don't. I don't know if you've 462 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: already touched them at I don't. I don't want you 463 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: to touch them just in case they can get any 464 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: kind of evidence. Okay, I already touched them trying to 465 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: get to see if they were breathing. Okay, Well, I 466 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: just don't want you to move anything just in case 467 00:31:50,080 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: they can get an Okay, you're talking. Oh, ma'am, I'm 468 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: gonna call I call some of my family. Okay. Oh well, 469 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: we'll do a favor for me. Whenever you see the 470 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: officer or the medics because they're they're all coming to you. Absolutely, okay, 471 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: but we had them come in. Turn on the flashes 472 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: on your vehicle so they can see you. Okay, you 473 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: got the flashes on for me. Who Wow, he sure 474 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: comes down pretty quickly. Did you hear that? Yeah, I 475 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: got him on. I'm calling my family, call my lawyer, 476 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm calling my dope dealer. So okay, let me go 477 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: back to you. Dave mac joining us Crime online dot 478 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, tell me again the report that there 479 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: is direct physical evidence linking him Alex Murnagu to the 480 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: double murders. At least one of the weapons used in 481 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: the double homicide belonged to the Murdoch family. We know 482 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: that law Enforce has been impounded at twenty twenty one 483 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: Chevy Suburban registered to the Murdah law firm from the scene. 484 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: We know that deputies found shellcasing at the scene. This 485 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: is a report from Fitznews. Sled agents requested the Sheriff's 486 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: deputy searched the area near the crime team for video 487 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: surveillance systems on the morning after the murders. We don't 488 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: know what they found there. On June sixteenth, sled agents 489 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: were collecting evidence in a swampy area near the Sauka 490 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: Huti River, about two miles south of Mozelle and Maggie. 491 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: Murdaw's cell phone was found along a rural South Carolina 492 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: road just outside the family's seventeen hundred acre hunting lodge 493 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: the day after the murder, straight out to donor Sherry 494 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: Schwartz forensic psychologists joining us, Doctor Sherry, how do you 495 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: analyze what you heard on that nine one call? Well, 496 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things, right, I mean, he 497 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: starts off, he's very emotional, he's crying, he's asking for air, 498 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: and then, as you pointed out at the end, he's 499 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: very calm. A matter of fact, it's very striking to 500 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: me that in the midst of this horror and waiting 501 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: for first responders, he needs to get off the phone 502 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: to contact family. I mean, you know, have you given 503 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: up totally? You know, who are you calling? What family 504 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: do you need to contact? And why at this moment? 505 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: You know, how are you gathering your thoughts in that way? 506 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: And he also says you know that he did touch 507 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 1: them to see if they were breathing, but he doesn't 508 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: mention anything about trying to render aid guys. As of 509 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: right now, there is no charge, no formal charge against 510 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: Alex Murdoc and the death of Maggie and Paul. Take 511 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut twenty two. This is GMA's 512 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: Eva Pilgrim. The Murdoch property is remote, it spans hundreds 513 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: of acres, and the feeling in the community whoever killed 514 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: the Murdas didn't end up here by accident or randomly. 515 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: Twenty two year old Paul Murdoch and his fifty six 516 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: year old mother, Maggie found shot to death near the 517 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: dog kennels outside the family's hunting lodge last week. County 518 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: investigators turning the case over to state law enforcement. So far, 519 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: there have been no arrests, no suspects have been named. 520 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: Law enforcement being very tight lipped about this investigation. As 521 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: of right now, again, Alex Murdock has not been charged. 522 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: He was named a person of interest way back when, 523 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: but no formal charges against him. We wait as justice 524 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: unfoalse Nancy Grace Crime story signing off, Goodbye friend