Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
Speaker 1: It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
Speaker 1: it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
Speaker 1: on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me,
Speaker 1: buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
Speaker 1: see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.
Speaker 1: I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but
Speaker 1: you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
Speaker 1: The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
Speaker 1: end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
Speaker 1: the Craig Ferguson Show dot Com slash tour. They are
Speaker 1: available at the Craig Ferguson show dot Com slash tour
Speaker 1: or at your local outlet in your region.
Speaker 2: My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
Speaker 2: is Joy.
Speaker 1: I talk to interest in people about what brings them
Speaker 1: happiness on the podcast today is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: actresses in the world and also one of the best
Speaker 1: people I've met in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: I know that's a low bar.
Speaker 1: But she's she really is a lovely person and very clever,
Speaker 1: and you'll know exactly what I'm.
Speaker 2: Talking about when I say it is Constance Zimmer.
Speaker 1: I think that the fact that you look exactly the
Speaker 1: same as the last time I saw you, which has
Speaker 1: gotta be seven years or something, Oh.
Speaker 3: My god, that's just terrifying that it's been saying.
Speaker 1: Well, what's terrifying is you look exactly the same, which
Speaker 1: makes me think you're probably getting collagen or bat blood
Speaker 1: injections or something.
Speaker 4: Or no, I wish I haven't done anything. I'm going
Speaker 4: to try and hold out for as long as possible.
Speaker 1: Do whatever you're doing. It's working, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: You look great. It's really it's really a thing.
Speaker 4: If I could just carry this light around with me
Speaker 4: wherever I went, that would probably.
Speaker 1: Ah. The lighting is key, I mean beyond the age
Speaker 1: of like thirty five, lighting is key. So when you
Speaker 1: get to thirty five, you're going to have to start
Speaker 1: thinking about all of that how I went into the
Speaker 1: show business that you're still in.
Speaker 3: Mos I am. I'm hanging on by a thread though.
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, the last four years have
Speaker 4: been really fucking rough.
Speaker 1: It's really weird, right, I mean, I don't understand what
Speaker 1: the fuck is going on with it at all. I've
Speaker 1: been following this guy on Instagram, don't know if you
Speaker 1: know me.
Speaker 2: I think he's handled his producer Patrick.
Speaker 3: I've heard, yeah, I've heard about it.
Speaker 1: Right, And he's fascinating because he's just like he's stayed
Speaker 1: up on it all the time. It's like show business
Speaker 1: isn't free fall basically the way that I understand it
Speaker 1: and the way that I think because you're I mean,
Speaker 1: you're a lot younger than me, obviously, but we're kind.
Speaker 3: Of a lot a lot.
Speaker 1: Younger obviously, but we were running the same time with
Speaker 1: like Sitcom in the nineties and like right up through
Speaker 1: twenty fifty ish. Really yeah, and then it's just it's
Speaker 1: in free fall because of no one knows what to do,
Speaker 1: right am I right?
Speaker 3: Yes, you're right.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, I think COVID was one thing, right,
Speaker 4: and then I think the strike was another, and both strikes,
Speaker 4: writers strike, actors strike, right, like, everybody is scrambling to
Speaker 4: make up for the lost time. And so I think
Speaker 4: the lost time and the lack of money and the
Speaker 4: reality that like streaming platforms were not bringing in money,
Speaker 4: there was too many there's too many options. So there's
Speaker 4: definitely is this word that everybody keeps using, and I'm
Speaker 4: sorry to use it, but the whole constricting of the basis.
Speaker 1: I haven't even heard. That was the constricting thing. Like
Speaker 1: everything's getting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything's small everything's getting smaller. So it's why like
Speaker 4: companies are folding under companies. So like you have an
Speaker 4: ABC signature which is now under Fox. You know, you
Speaker 4: have everything is going back to like one place instead
Speaker 4: of one place having ten options, right, And so with that,
Speaker 4: you have people getting fired, losing their jobs after thirty years.
Speaker 4: You have the lack of jobs for actors, writers, directors.
Speaker 4: Because the one statistic that I heard that made it
Speaker 4: all make sense to me was at the beginning of
Speaker 4: this year, like February March, normally there was like three
Speaker 4: hundred things in production. Okay, three hundred, there were fifty geez.
Speaker 3: So if you look.
Speaker 4: At that, you go, oh, well, then there's no surprise
Speaker 4: that all of us are in a free fall and wondering, well,
Speaker 4: how the fuck do we come back from that? Sorry,
Speaker 4: pardon my language.
Speaker 1: No, you could say fuck. In fact, I kind of
Speaker 1: like it when you do. It makes me feel like
Speaker 1: I'm talking to someone who has an authentic voice and
Speaker 1: is in no way under the threat from the man.
Speaker 1: I I wonder, have you started doing that, like like
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now, Like I'm working for an evil
Speaker 1: corporation called iHeart on this this podcast right now. But
Speaker 1: you know, I'll probably get fired from that or they'll
Speaker 1: fall apart or something like that. And have you started
Speaker 1: doing a podcast or something there because everybody has to
Speaker 1: do that now apparently.
Speaker 3: Well I'm so.
Speaker 4: I you know, I had a podcast in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: maybe twenty nineteen. Look, I don't even remember when the
Speaker 4: fuck it was, but it was. I had it for
Speaker 4: like a year, and it was I just I couldn't
Speaker 4: take it.
Speaker 3: It was so much work.
Speaker 4: But it was the kind where we went into a
Speaker 4: place and we brought people into was studio, and it
Speaker 4: was a whole setup. It wasn't, you know, like from
Speaker 4: a chair in your library, right, It.
Speaker 2: Wasn't how dare you? How dare you? No? I get it.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: It's It's an interesting thing though, because it feels to
Speaker 1: me that the model that's beginning to emerge out of
Speaker 1: the mist it reminds me of the late nineties early
Speaker 1: two thousands independent film where you had to go and
Speaker 1: find the money from. Like I remember going to the
Speaker 1: can Film Festival over and over again and dealing with
Speaker 1: horrible arms dealers on yachts out in the Bay trying
Speaker 1: to get sell them the you know, the brattis Lavin
Speaker 1: TV rights for another one hundred grand so you could
Speaker 1: finance your movie and then you know, and there were
Speaker 1: there were three places to shop in town for television, ABC,
Speaker 1: NBC and the other one CBS. I was there for
Speaker 1: a long time forgot all of it, and Fox, and
Speaker 1: that's it. But I think that I think it's probably
Speaker 1: time to start thinking about starting your own studio.
Speaker 4: Sure, well, you know, I played a studio ahead on television,
Speaker 4: so that's crazy.
Speaker 2: I'm a great at it too.
Speaker 3: I kind of assume that I'm already in that position.
Speaker 3: Are you?
Speaker 1: Did you write rebooting on Tarajia? You're going to do
Speaker 1: it again?
Speaker 2: Is that a thing? Or is a rumor?
Speaker 4: They have been trying to reboot that show for years,
Speaker 4: and I'm not quite sure how you do it unless
Speaker 4: you completely flip the narrative and you place it in
Speaker 4: today's times and you make DANEA. Gordon the lead of
Speaker 4: the show and you show how women are running the
Speaker 4: industry and how the men are trying to get back
Speaker 4: in and become relevant.
Speaker 2: Is what's happening.
Speaker 3: That's what I'd like to believe is happening.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many more females in charge and
Speaker 4: be studios than ever before. That is true, definitely, they
Speaker 4: were not that many when we were doing Entourage. So
Speaker 4: but look, I mean, those characters are iconic, and you know,
Speaker 4: there's a whole new Entourage following because of streaming and
Speaker 4: then putting out all of the seasons, you know, during COVID,
Speaker 4: and so there's a whole new generation of fans, which
Speaker 4: has been crazy because that show is twenty years old.
Speaker 2: Shut up, is it really? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really right doing the two things that age
Speaker 1: you are at other people's kids and other people's TV shows.
Speaker 4: My god, I know, and I mean the show that
Speaker 4: I that I and again I didn't just do it,
Speaker 4: but the show Unreal that I was on.
Speaker 1: That was a great show. By the way, I was
Speaker 1: going to talk about that, because that really is a
Speaker 1: great show.
Speaker 4: Well, you're very kind, but it's that is on Netflix now,
Speaker 4: right that show. We premiered that show ten years ago.
Speaker 3: Next year. Wow, and so I'm really excited.
Speaker 4: That's the one thing where I'm like, Wow, this is
Speaker 4: amazing that you can have a show that is now
Speaker 4: again an entire new audience, an entire new fan base
Speaker 4: watching it. Except I'm constantly reminding people like, we dropped
Speaker 4: that ten years ago, so I don't know how offensive
Speaker 4: it's going to be today.
Speaker 1: I have that from Late Night because I stopped doing
Speaker 1: Late Night ten years ago next month. Stopped doing it
Speaker 1: ten years ago next month. And you know, people like
Speaker 1: I have kids calling them stand up shows who are
Speaker 1: like in their early twenties. Meant, when he's in there
Speaker 1: watching online, they never saw it ever go out, and
Speaker 1: they're like, how do you get away with saying that?
Speaker 2: I said, I don't I said it. I said it
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. That's how I got away with saying it.
Speaker 2: It was like because the attitudes have changed so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, authorized, I think in particular probably suffers a
Speaker 1: great deal from that because it was very much in
Speaker 1: that kind of lad culture, wasn't it, And it kind
Speaker 1: of like the zeitguy shifted hard in a different direction.
Speaker 1: It's kind of It's an odd thing though, because you
Speaker 1: when I look back at some of this stuff I.
Speaker 2: Did in late night.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know if I would do that now,
Speaker 1: But there was stuff that even in late night would
Speaker 1: I would think, I'm not going to do that now.
Speaker 1: I mean, things change. I think that you can you
Speaker 1: can overthink it. It's like when Friends came back on
Speaker 1: on Netflix and people were like, you know, people loved it,
Speaker 1: but they had this whole kind of problem with certain
Speaker 1: aspects of it, which I remember people have it at
Speaker 1: the time as well.
Speaker 4: But let's like, I mean, this is the one thing
Speaker 4: that I'm constantly trying to remember is that it shows
Speaker 4: that we've progressed. It shows that we've changed, we've grown,
Speaker 4: and so we cannot fault anybody or anything about something
Speaker 4: that was okay. You know twenty years ago that's not okay.
Speaker 4: Now Let's instead say, oh, this is great. We have
Speaker 4: come this far and we've grown, and we know now
Speaker 4: that this is not okay. So now from this point forward,
Speaker 4: you know, and there's still going to be people that
Speaker 4: make mistakes today that in ten years time we're going
Speaker 4: to say, oh, we thought that was okay, then now
Speaker 4: it's not okay.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's cool.
Speaker 2: Also, it also comes and goes.
Speaker 1: I mean it changes that the people this kind of
Speaker 1: the backlash thing about people saying, you know, is there
Speaker 1: you can't have some you know, it's all too woke,
Speaker 1: and you go, well, it's not.
Speaker 2: It's not too bad to question yourself about what you do.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's all right to question
Speaker 1: yourself and go, is this I mean, I had this thing.
Speaker 1: Did you ever meet Peter Lasally who was my boss
Speaker 1: and late night?
Speaker 4: I'm sure I did because I did your show and
Speaker 4: so yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2: Did you good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Peter.
Speaker 1: Peter was he was like Johnny Carson's producer for thirty
Speaker 1: five years, and he was and he produced Letterman and stuff,
Speaker 1: so he was like the guru of late night TV.
Speaker 1: And whenever I was, particularly early on, if I had
Speaker 1: a kind of a particularly salty joke that I wanted
Speaker 1: to do on the show, he would say, it's.
Speaker 2: Not worth it. It's not worth it.
Speaker 1: There's always another joke, and you're just going to make
Speaker 1: people mad and you're going to And I kind of
Speaker 1: feel that way.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I heard are you familiar with a comedian called Anthony
Speaker 1: jessel Nick? Yes, who I am a big fan of him.
Speaker 1: He says he does the most awful material, but he
Speaker 1: does it in a very clever way. And he I
Speaker 1: saw him discussing it and he said, he quoted Warhol
Speaker 1: as like, are is what you get away with? And
Speaker 1: he said, if you're not getting away with it, people
Speaker 1: are angry at you, then you haven't done it properly.
Speaker 2: You know, you haven't managed to slip it in.
Speaker 1: You haven't managed to couch it in such a way
Speaker 1: where you can say something awful or say something regrettable,
Speaker 1: or portray a character.
Speaker 2: Who actually talks like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, the characters that were in authorized,
Speaker 1: these guys exist, right, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean they're in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: They're probably less of them now, but but they are
Speaker 1: still there.
Speaker 3: Oh no, they're still there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I haven't been Hollywood in a while.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel like like that at the time,
Speaker 1: because obviously not everyone is like you?
Speaker 2: Guy, You're not Dana. You know, you're not you know,
Speaker 2: you don't run a reality show.
Speaker 1: You you know, Anthony Hopkins is not a serial killer
Speaker 1: who eats people.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're playing a character.
Speaker 1: So at what point do you have to sanitize the
Speaker 1: art to make it okay? For common sensibilities, even if
Speaker 1: you're portraying someone who's not sympathetic or doesn't have sympathetic qualities.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think this has always been a discussion,
Speaker 4: especially now because as actors, we are paid to play
Speaker 4: characters that aren't aren't.
Speaker 3: Like us, right, unless you are.
Speaker 4: I mean, you could look at Julia robertson Pretty Woman
Speaker 4: and everyone would say, oh, no, but that's exactly who
Speaker 4: she's like. She's not a prostitute, but she feels like
Speaker 4: she has that similar personality. No, it's not, it's like
Speaker 4: and so I think, you know, whenever people meet me one,
Speaker 4: they are always surprised that I'm nice, always surprised that
Speaker 4: I'm not an evil bitch because those are the characters
Speaker 4: I play on television, or they think that I actually
Speaker 4: am a studio executive. And so I've always taken it
Speaker 4: as a huge compliment because it makes me go, oh, well,
Speaker 4: so you believed me so much that you thought I
Speaker 4: was that person, that that person exists in real life.
Speaker 4: And obviously a lot of characters are based on real people.
Speaker 4: I mean, my character on Unreal was based on a
Speaker 4: real person, right, right, And so it's constantly this there's
Speaker 4: a problem now where actors are not allowed to portray
Speaker 4: anything that they are not.
Speaker 2: Right, unless unless the character is Scottish.
Speaker 4: That doesn't matter, theller like anyone can.
Speaker 2: Just get an old chair, put a ball of whiskey on.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, fine, you know.
Speaker 4: And so I think I get it, and I understand it,
Speaker 4: and I think, again, there's a balance, right, there's.
Speaker 1: Well maybe, but I also think that it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. I mean, because everybody knows most people, I
Speaker 1: would say under the age of four years old probably
Speaker 1: have some kind of social media presence, right, so they
Speaker 1: present some fake idea of themselves to the zeitgeist, you know,
Speaker 1: once a week, twice a week, twice a day, however
Speaker 1: much they post their content, and you know, it's like
Speaker 1: here's me and the beach or living my best life
Speaker 1: and all that nobody, you know, it shows himself, you know,
Speaker 1: stubbed my toe, having a horrible time in a bad mood,
Speaker 1: just snapped at the lady in the grocery store. Because
Speaker 1: all of these things are human. I think of the
Speaker 1: thing with Ellen DeGeneres who got like basically canceled for
Speaker 1: not being apparently not being as I don't know Ellen DeGeneres,
Speaker 1: but not being as nice a person off camera as
Speaker 1: she was on camera. I'm like, well, have you met
Speaker 1: anyone who works into your business.
Speaker 3: Because it's right, it can happen all the time.
Speaker 4: I mean, and I know in one of your episodes
Speaker 4: of your podcast, you were saying you were talking about
Speaker 4: meeting your your heroes or meeting the people you know
Speaker 4: that you've looked up to, and how sometimes you get
Speaker 4: disappointed and that's really tough, and that's happened to all
Speaker 4: of us. But again, I think it's because entertainers and artists,
Speaker 4: whether you're a writer, director, or actor, anything, everybody is
Speaker 4: held up to a standard, whether you present as that
Speaker 4: or not. And so you know, it's and I think
Speaker 4: because of social media, there's.
Speaker 3: Another layer that everyone's adding.
Speaker 4: You know, everyone's adding that like my life is amazing,
Speaker 4: and uh, it's it's tough, man, I can't. The whole
Speaker 4: social media part of being a person in the public
Speaker 4: eye is really daunting. And I think it's really hurting
Speaker 4: a lot of people. And and and I also mean,
Speaker 4: you know, the people who come up in social media
Speaker 4: where it's their job, sure, you know, to be a
Speaker 4: social media influencer, it's a lot.
Speaker 3: It's just a lot that we're all tearing.
Speaker 1: It's also it's kind of uh, it's relentless, it's unrealistic.
Speaker 2: And also it removes the role.
Speaker 1: Like when I was doing Late Night particularly, I use
Speaker 1: this because I had one of the greatest.
Speaker 2: Producers that ever worked in television.
Speaker 1: It was Peter Sally, and I had so many ideas
Speaker 1: that he, as a producer, would say, you know, that's
Speaker 1: maybe not such a great idea. And I didn't do
Speaker 1: a thing that I thought this will be a thing.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I think that the role of the
Speaker 1: producer a lot of time, particularly in the artistic sense,
Speaker 1: was to perhaps temper the enthusiasm of the talent so
Speaker 1: it was palatable, rather than just throwing it out there
Speaker 1: on filter.
Speaker 2: But I feel like, because I.
Speaker 1: Wrestled with the social media thing as well, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do it. I certainly don't want to scroll
Speaker 1: through other people's stuff, but I feel like I'm duty
Speaker 1: bound as a member of society, and particularly in the
Speaker 1: business I'm into. Like people say you have to contact
Speaker 1: your fans, and I don't. First of all, the idea
Speaker 1: of having fans. I think that's sports teams have fans.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, performers have people who enjoy what
Speaker 1: they do, right, maybe Taylor Swift has fans.
Speaker 2: I get it. But yeah, have you been to see
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift a daughter? Right?
Speaker 3: I do?
Speaker 4: She's sixteen. But no, we didn't get into the whole swifty.
Speaker 1: Of it all.
Speaker 3: All right, just wonder if I mean I appreciate her.
Speaker 4: I think that what she is doing for young women
Speaker 4: is incredible. I'm but we never went to the concerts
Speaker 4: and we didn't get into the whole brain size.
Speaker 1: I never connected with that either. But we'll see this
Speaker 1: having listened, I mean, she's the real deal. She's a
Speaker 1: dully parting level songwriter. I mean, she can really do
Speaker 1: the job. And I think that that I kind of
Speaker 1: love that at least someone who's that talented and clearly
Speaker 1: that discipline then clearly works at it and tries and
Speaker 1: puts the effort and it's held up as an example
Speaker 1: rather than you know, I don't know someone who doesn't
Speaker 1: try or it was just lucky, because I don't think
Speaker 1: she's lucky. I think she was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh no, she works her ass off.
Speaker 4: I mean I think that's obvious, and yeah, it's it's
Speaker 4: very impressive, especially when you're constantly reminded at how young
Speaker 4: she is and how long she's been doing it, and
Speaker 4: she still has an incredible head on her shoulders.
Speaker 1: So it's very impressive because you know what it's like.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen it, you've had it. I've had
Speaker 1: it too. It's like you get a bit of fame
Speaker 1: in it. It's it's weird what it does to your
Speaker 1: head a lot. I was surprised that much fucked with
Speaker 1: me a little bit because.
Speaker 3: How did it fuck with you? In what way?
Speaker 2: I felt? I think I got paranoid.
Speaker 1: And I think what it was is not because people
Speaker 1: were recognizing me all the time. It was because I
Speaker 1: thought they were recognizing me all the time. So any
Speaker 1: kind of like if you make eye contact with someone
Speaker 1: randomly on public transport or in a coffee shop or
Speaker 1: in a store and you're like, oh fuck, they they
Speaker 1: know me, or they're going to come over, or that.
Speaker 2: It just made me feel very strange.
Speaker 1: And I find myself walking around whearing hat and not
Speaker 1: quite a false s beard, but nearly a false spard
Speaker 1: in a hat, and you know, maybe a home, you know,
Speaker 1: just something to you know, remove any I mean, it
Speaker 1: wasn't that, but it was never that bad because I
Speaker 1: didn't have that level of fame. But there was a
Speaker 1: point right about when Late Night was really pumping, maybe
Speaker 1: like twenty twelve something like that, it was really intense.
Speaker 1: I did not care for it. And you for that
Speaker 1: quite a law in your career because it comes and
Speaker 1: goals right.
Speaker 4: It's like, well, look can you read that? It says
Speaker 4: it says, I don't know who you are. It's like
Speaker 4: a piece of art that my sister got for me
Speaker 4: because the running joke and my household people that know
Speaker 4: me is nobody ever can pinpoint who I am or
Speaker 4: why they know me. So and it's everything I ever
Speaker 4: wanted from my career is I wanted to be a
Speaker 4: working actor, but I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to have my life.
Speaker 4: And you know, I was just going to New York
Speaker 4: the other day and there was a guy behind me
Speaker 4: and he said, you're that actress, aren't you?
Speaker 3: And my friend, my friend was with me, and she goes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's that actress, that one.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like that's what I get. And it's a constant
Speaker 4: like why do I know you? I know you don't
Speaker 4: I I know your voice? Wait, what is that show
Speaker 4: you were on, and I'm like, seriously, I'm hmm, well,
Speaker 4: let's see you this your this is your age bracket.
Speaker 4: This is the show I think you would watch. And
Speaker 4: I'm always wrong, by the way, because I always start
Speaker 4: with Entourage, because Entourage was such a phenomenon, huge yss
Speaker 4: But you know, even like the eighty year old woman
Speaker 4: who I think like would watch Boston Legal or Newsroom
Speaker 4: or House of Cards or whatever. I go through these
Speaker 4: shows and the woman's like no, no, And then the
Speaker 4: last thing I say, is is it Entourage?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: She's like, yes, that's it. Like okay, so I stopped guessing.
Speaker 4: I've stopped trying to get you very good.
Speaker 1: I don't do it like if people say to me
Speaker 1: or you that guy, I'm like, no that I get
Speaker 1: out all the time and I move on.
Speaker 4: I used to do that, but I think after like
Speaker 4: the five hundredth time, I just it gets difficult because
Speaker 4: they're still right here and they're still looking at you,
Speaker 4: and then they're picking up their phone and they're like trying,
Speaker 4: you know, and so it becomes more that I would
Speaker 4: rather just nip it in the bud and just say
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But so for me, it's
Speaker 4: it's never been. I get excited when someone can put
Speaker 4: two and two together.
Speaker 1: I think that it's a funny kind of thing for
Speaker 1: a night too, because you're a proper actor, like you know,
Speaker 1: American Academy at Dramatic Art and plays and proper acting
Speaker 1: and like a proper actor. And I think fame for
Speaker 1: actors it's kind of especially contemporary fame works against you.
Speaker 1: Like I was talking to Kevin Bacon a while back,
Speaker 1: and he was saying that he was doing some show
Speaker 1: where he worked really hard on it and the studio.
Speaker 2: We're saying, could he life tweet it? What was going on?
Speaker 1: He said, that's the fucking opposite of what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do as an actor. I'm trying to get you
Speaker 1: to believe that I know Kevin Bacon and at the
Speaker 1: same time saying, oh, I remember we were filming this
Speaker 1: day and it was so cold, which takes you out
Speaker 1: of the thing that you're trying to put yourself into.
Speaker 1: So weird kind of push pull a little bit, because
Speaker 1: you've got to have the social media if you're going
Speaker 1: to have the job.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's time for you to It's really
Speaker 1: the only thing really you have to do is you
Speaker 1: have to create your own content.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm leading up to.
Speaker 3: Well, look and I am.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have a podcast right now that we're
Speaker 4: pitching because I have like my partner who is like
Speaker 4: my writing partner, my producing partner, my content partner. And
Speaker 4: she is a woman that I met four years ago
Speaker 4: during COVID. She was the writer creator of this show
Speaker 4: and I was attached as the star. And so we
Speaker 4: met for the first time over zoom and I remember
Speaker 4: I had to go meet her outside in her backyard
Speaker 4: because it was COVID and we couldn't be close to
Speaker 4: each other. And you know, she was like, I don't
Speaker 4: think this show is going to go, but I have
Speaker 4: four other projects for you.
Speaker 3: And so she is like, I'm the TV version of her.
Speaker 4: She is the characters I play on television, right And
Speaker 4: she's ten years older than me, and she's.
Speaker 3: Badass and like I go to her for everything.
Speaker 4: And so we decided that we wanted to do a
Speaker 4: podcast together to help get women through midlife essentially, and.
Speaker 3: We're right now trying to pitch that.
Speaker 4: But again, podcast community constricting as well. It's so saturated
Speaker 4: to it's so many and because of what you're saying.
Speaker 4: Everybody's like, I have to create my own content, you know,
Speaker 4: I've got to.
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, the.
Speaker 4: Biggest problem in the business right now is that women
Speaker 4: there's no parts for women essentially fifty to sixty. So
Speaker 4: like a woman in her fifties is invisible, invisible to
Speaker 4: everyone and anything. You know, we go through an insane
Speaker 4: hormonal change, we go through paramenopause and menopause, and we're like,
Speaker 4: what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 3: And who are we? And what are we?
Speaker 4: And you know, more women leave the marketplace in their
Speaker 4: fifties than any age group, And it's insane to think that.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 4: We are in a time where generation acts, right, So
Speaker 4: anyone forty five to sixty is saying no, like not
Speaker 4: any fucking more.
Speaker 3: Like you have some of.
Speaker 4: Your favorite actresses that are all in their fifties right now.
Speaker 4: You have Halle Berry, Naomi Watts, I don't know if
Speaker 4: Drew is in her fifties, Drew Barrymorecelma Hayek, Ava Longoria,
Speaker 4: Tracy Ellis, Ross, Gabriel Union, Garcels, Constant Zimmer, and those
Speaker 4: are all women that are like, what the fuck what happened? Like,
Speaker 4: where are the roles that are representing women in their fifties.
Speaker 4: If they can't be played by women in their fifties, oh,
Speaker 4: because there aren't no parts they skip over. They go
Speaker 4: from women in their forties on television and film to
Speaker 4: women in their sixties. So it's you know, the content
Speaker 4: I'm trying to create is trying to make women in
Speaker 4: their fifties more relevant and represented across all categories, whether
Speaker 4: that's in film or movies, or or podcasts.
Speaker 3: For God's sakes, you know, Yeah, there's.
Speaker 1: Too many podcasts. I think I'm probably going to stop
Speaker 1: doing this one really.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Probably, I'll do it for a little bit longer,
Speaker 2: but you know me, I'm a quitter. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I'll try something else.
Speaker 4: Well, So what I want to ask you about, though,
Speaker 4: speaking of quitting, is why you went and tried Scotland
Speaker 4: right for a while.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and now you're in New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm back. I'm back in the East Coast. I'm
Speaker 2: in New England.
Speaker 1: Actually I'm in New York some of the time, but
Speaker 1: I moved back to New England. I was in Scotland
Speaker 1: for about like just before the pandemic and I was
Speaker 1: there all through the Panetic back for about five or
Speaker 1: five years. I think I was back and I really
Speaker 1: liked it Ana, and I was kind of like, my
Speaker 1: kids are American, my wife is an American, my life
Speaker 1: is American, I'm an American. I've been an American citizen
Speaker 1: for a long time as well, and it just it
Speaker 1: felt like I was no aw in a weird way.
Speaker 2: It was like I had to go back to America.
Speaker 3: Right, But did you find that like you.
Speaker 4: Liked being in Europe essentially, like not being in the States,
Speaker 4: Like I feel like that's my goal is to leave,
Speaker 4: Like I want to leave LA and I would like
Speaker 4: to Well that I.
Speaker 2: Did want to I would not go back to LA.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I think that what happened is that,
Speaker 1: you know, it was the weirdest thing we Megan and I,
Speaker 1: my wife and I were watching during the lockdown. We
Speaker 1: were watching Ozark, right, and Ozark this dark, you know,
Speaker 1: awful things happening in this terrible but it was say
Speaker 1: in the heat of the Ozarks, and we were both
Speaker 1: watching this terribly dark show.
Speaker 2: Gone, I really want to go home, which.
Speaker 1: Is probably not what you know the creators had in
Speaker 1: mind for the show. But we were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this looks much more fun. And then and it kind
Speaker 1: of that and then watching show have you watched The
Speaker 1: The Righteous Gemstones, dynam McBride's thing, yes, which which is
Speaker 1: I think his I love Dyna McBride's work, and I
Speaker 1: think this is his opus.
Speaker 2: I just it's such a masterpiece of.
Speaker 1: You know, of a of a million different types of comedy,
Speaker 1: but very American and I and I really it really
Speaker 1: made me nostalgic for Americas now because people like that
Speaker 1: only exist in the United States, and I really subscribe
Speaker 1: to the notion of being amongst them and.
Speaker 2: Maybe even one of them, you know, just like.
Speaker 4: But do you You don't find those people in New
Speaker 4: England though, do you?
Speaker 2: Oh? Sure you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, They're all over.
Speaker 1: It's not in New York you find everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: And I think that it's funny because I think of
Speaker 1: you as an East Coaster, but you know it, right,
Speaker 1: you're from the West Coast, right.
Speaker 4: I am from the West Coast. Yeah, but I mean
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm an East Coaster as well.
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, yeah, you have an East Coast boys, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, you.
Speaker 3: Said an abrasive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And funny and interesting and charming. That's all of
Speaker 1: that to me is New York City, you know. I
Speaker 1: mean it feels like that. So would you think he
Speaker 1: would move to New York.
Speaker 4: Then, yeah, I would definitely. We used to live in
Speaker 4: New York. We did like a bi coastal thing for
Speaker 4: about six years when our daughter was young. And I
Speaker 4: want to do like a little place in New York
Speaker 4: and then like a house in Europe so that the
Speaker 4: weather is bad in New York it's either too cold
Speaker 4: or too hot or whatever, then we can just go
Speaker 4: to Europe and be there and just I don't know, well, if.
Speaker 1: It's for weather or may I suggest Scotland is not
Speaker 1: the place for you. If it's about you know, you're
Speaker 1: you're from the Pacific Northwest, is am I right? I
Speaker 1: remember this Seattle, right, So you know what it's like
Speaker 1: to live under dark and rain all the time.
Speaker 3: I don't want that. I don't want that for me.
Speaker 1: It's not for me either. And I got sick of
Speaker 1: that too. I was like, there's got to be at
Speaker 1: least one nice day in the summer.
Speaker 2: There has to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the gray is too much. I mean, there's a
Speaker 4: reason why they made those lights. You know they have those,
Speaker 4: They're called sad lights and it's for like you know,
Speaker 4: if you have lad.
Speaker 2: I was using it in Scotland. I used to have
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 1: I would do this thing when I was in Scotland
Speaker 1: and I was living there, Like in the winter, I
Speaker 1: would go for a run on a treadmill. I would
Speaker 1: have a sad light on and I would put on
Speaker 1: the TV with like screensaver of like Santa Monica or something,
Speaker 1: and I thought, this is this is this is stupid,
Speaker 1: this is this is like there's no need to do this.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's a lot of side love about it.
Speaker 1: I'm from there, but I feel I'm American. I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm at peace with that. You know. I'm from there,
Speaker 1: but I'm an American for all the problems that we have,
Speaker 1: and we have.
Speaker 2: Plenty, but I'm part of this. You know, this is
Speaker 2: this is my thing.
Speaker 4: And you're now on tour as well, right, yeah, I
Speaker 4: just well see that's my way of fighting what's going
Speaker 4: on in the industry as well.
Speaker 1: And I was aware of that when I started doing
Speaker 1: Late Night.
Speaker 2: Start.
Speaker 1: I hadn't done stand up for about ten years, but
Speaker 1: when I started doing Late Night, I thought, because the
Speaker 1: deal I made with CBS at the time is they
Speaker 1: pretty much owned me. You know what these deals are like,
Speaker 1: I couldn't do any other television. I can do it
Speaker 1: unless I got their permission. But the one thing they
Speaker 1: didn't have was live stuff. They didn't own me. For
Speaker 1: live stuff, I could go and go back to do
Speaker 1: stand up in clubs or in theaters. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to as well, because I got a fifth that to
Speaker 1: be owned by corporations is the most dangerous thing that
Speaker 1: can happen to a performer, to be owned by CBS
Speaker 1: or Netflix or whoever's fucking got you in some handcuffed
Speaker 1: deal saying you're the greatest thing, and we're going to
Speaker 1: take your part of the corporate family and these people,
Speaker 1: will you know, cut your throat and throw you in
Speaker 1: the East River as fast as any fucking mafioso. And
Speaker 1: I was aware of that going in, and I thought,
Speaker 1: stand up is autonomy, and I'm really glad because it is.
Speaker 2: And that's why I.
Speaker 1: Think that you should Constance be working on your stand
Speaker 1: up act this time you start doing some open mics.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have thought about it.
Speaker 4: I've thought about it for years, and I think I
Speaker 4: would get in so much trouble because my filter is
Speaker 4: not good.
Speaker 2: That trouble, you know.
Speaker 1: I think what you're describing is a three special deal
Speaker 1: at Netflix. You don't have to have a filter. The
Speaker 1: audience is the filter. If they this whole fucking thing
Speaker 1: that you have to, you know, watch what you say,
Speaker 1: don't fuck that, let them watch what you say.
Speaker 2: If someone doesn't like what you say, they don't need
Speaker 2: to watch you. And I think you're.
Speaker 1: A highly entertaining person with a very odd mind, and
Speaker 1: I think I'd love.
Speaker 2: To see you do that stuff.
Speaker 1: I think it it would be an addition to I
Speaker 1: was going to see the stand up community. But there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as a stand up community. That's a
Speaker 1: fucking pack of lies. That's like the cat community. Cats
Speaker 1: are fucking social, and stand ups to pretend to be social,
Speaker 1: I think are just lying.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, and also the stand up community has changed,
Speaker 4: I mean like night and day right. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: a lot of people are scared, you know, and that's
Speaker 4: not what stand up has been or should be. It
Speaker 4: is that space where you should be able to say,
Speaker 4: this is my shit, I'm going to put it out here,
Speaker 4: and you're either gonna like it or you're not. But
Speaker 4: we don't have that anymore because everything's filmed, Everything is
Speaker 4: taken out of context, everything offends someone, which is by
Speaker 4: the way, that's hasn't changed and all the Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's always been the case. People always get angry and
Speaker 1: stand ups. But I think that I think the idea. Look,
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of like like the way I
Speaker 1: always felt about show business in general and particularly in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: which is only dangerous if you take it seriously. It's
Speaker 1: a stupid job. And you know, for a performer, I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about people who do actual work like you know,
Speaker 1: do things like you know, like make stuff or or
Speaker 1: you know, design things. I'm talking about, you know, people
Speaker 1: like us who perform, you know, if you're lucky enough
Speaker 1: to do it and be part of it. The thing
Speaker 1: that makes it dangerous is the corporations. The thing that
Speaker 1: makes it dangerous is the subscribing to the values of
Speaker 1: a faceless group of people that only really care about
Speaker 1: the bottom line. So you know, if, for example, I
Speaker 1: say something that offends the sensibilities of iHeart, who are
Speaker 1: the company that owns this, you know podcast, I Heart
Speaker 1: doesn't even fucking know my name. They don't even fucking
Speaker 1: know I'm there. But if they and anybody think I'm
Speaker 1: going to damage the corporate brand out the door, and
Speaker 1: then there'll be that, you know, the the cutt and
Speaker 1: paste boilerplate thing that lawyers put together. You know. We
Speaker 1: I heard, you know what they say about everyone when
Speaker 1: and it's just it's that weird thing. I can't remember
Speaker 1: who said this, but it wasn't. Nobody's out to get you.
Speaker 1: It's just people are just looking out for themselves. That's
Speaker 1: the thing. No one, I don't think anyone really wants
Speaker 1: to destroy you. They just want to raise themselves up right,
Speaker 1: or at least no get destroyed themselves.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you know, it's this is my problem too.
Speaker 4: It's like we've lost the creatives. No longer have the
Speaker 4: loudest voice. It's what you're saying. The executives and the
Speaker 4: corporations and the people that aren't the creatives have the
Speaker 4: louder voice, and they are the ones that decide what
Speaker 4: it is entertainment or And it's hard. It's really hard
Speaker 4: because I love this business. When I feel like I
Speaker 4: can be creative and I can put a character out
Speaker 4: into the world that is going to speak to people
Speaker 4: that people are going to be able to relate to,
Speaker 4: not necessarily like or dislike. That's not what I care about,
Speaker 4: but about being relatable so that people see themselves reflected
Speaker 4: in entertainment, right, because that is how we as a
Speaker 4: society go, oh, I'm not alone?
Speaker 3: Right? No, what he ever wants to feel like they're alone.
Speaker 4: They're the only person that feels that way, looks that way,
Speaker 4: talks that way, right.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: So if we're creating a business now that feels very
Speaker 4: like not it's not monotonous, it's like, uh, what's the
Speaker 4: what's the no? But it's like it's more like it's safe.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, right, it's what is that? I don't even
Speaker 4: know what the fucking word is, but uh, it's just
Speaker 4: for me. I'm I hope that when the business comes back,
Speaker 4: it goes back to the creative. And you know, with
Speaker 4: AI and all this stuff, you know AI not being
Speaker 4: able to be creative. It can only make content out
Speaker 4: of what already exists. But it cannot create original content, right,
Speaker 4: It cannot create something that has not yet happened.
Speaker 3: So leave that to the creatives.
Speaker 4: Let us be the originator, let us be original, Let
Speaker 4: us have a voice that you haven't seen twenty times over,
Speaker 4: like the reboots, like constantly remaking the same show that
Speaker 4: we've already seen, the voices we've already heard that.
Speaker 3: You know. That to me is like what we already
Speaker 3: did that? Like, come on, you.
Speaker 1: Know It's it's quite interesting because that's a sure sign
Speaker 1: that the fucking mediocrity is in charge when they start saying,
Speaker 1: you know, the mediocrity.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Word.
Speaker 2: It's funny though, because.
Speaker 1: There are sometimes I see reboots and I delighted to
Speaker 1: see them.
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's that many.
Speaker 1: I think a reboot is kind of like you know
Speaker 1: that the night drive to Vegas, that you think it's
Speaker 1: been a great idea and then you get like an
Speaker 1: hour and and you're like, this was a really fucking
Speaker 1: stupid thing to do, and I wish we'd stayed at home.
Speaker 1: And I think that I think there's a bit of
Speaker 1: that you talked about the AIDOL, which I find fascinating
Speaker 1: because it can't create original content, but it can take
Speaker 1: your image, and it can take your image and put
Speaker 1: it on anything it wants, which I find.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say it, yeah, alarming.
Speaker 1: I think I'm alarmed by I think that's the kind
Speaker 1: of sinister thing that it can make you say things
Speaker 1: you didn't say.
Speaker 3: Yep, oh, I know. And we've already seen it all.
Speaker 3: We've seen it everywhere.
Speaker 4: I mean Tom Hanks, right, he's been the biggest Yeah,
Speaker 4: the one.
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't.
Speaker 4: I just again, it's like, don't even get me started
Speaker 4: about what people think they can get away with.
Speaker 3: That's my most confusing thing where I'm like.
Speaker 4: How did somebody honestly think you could put that out
Speaker 4: without consent, use this person's face, put words in their
Speaker 4: mouth and they would be okay with it?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: What rock are you living under? I don't this is
Speaker 3: this shit I don't get at all.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's interesting because I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think people think beyond that. I mean, I have this,
Speaker 1: I have this theory that no one, very few people anyway,
Speaker 1: are the villain of their own story. Everyone's the hero
Speaker 1: of their own sting and consider themselves the hero of
Speaker 1: their own story and think of themselves in that. And
Speaker 1: very few people out me in life. I hope that
Speaker 1: I'm one of them. I think that I'm one of them.
Speaker 1: Where I go, you know what, I was a deck
Speaker 1: there and I don't say it because I was I
Speaker 1: got caught being a deck. I bust myself on being
Speaker 1: a fucking deck when I was a deck. And I
Speaker 1: think it would be nice if that was more popular
Speaker 1: that you go, you know what, I'm gonna not do that.
Speaker 1: But I think when it comes to people stealing stuff
Speaker 1: like that, I don't think they think of Like if
Speaker 1: they take your likeness and they put you in some
Speaker 1: kind of piece of footage that you don't want to
Speaker 1: be part of. I don't think they think about you.
Speaker 1: They're thinking about them. You're just a resource. I mean
Speaker 1: it's almost like psych psychopathic. You know, you your image
Speaker 1: belongs to the Internet or something.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, well it's narcissist, right.
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a it's a slightly overused word,
Speaker 1: I think, narcissist. But but but you're right, I think
Speaker 1: it is that. I think it is that that strange
Speaker 1: kind of you know, insular thought or this belongs to
Speaker 1: me because I I had this thought.
Speaker 2: And that's not because.
Speaker 4: Because you're a public figure, right yeah, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's the idea. I've got
Speaker 1: a friend, a guy called doctor Kevin Fitzgerald and Kevin
Speaker 1: is a standout comedian, but he is also a large
Speaker 1: animal fact and he is an expert on rattlesnakes and
Speaker 1: polar bears and all sorts of crazy gritters, and he's
Speaker 1: trying to help animals right now. I love this idea.
Speaker 1: He's part of a group that are lobbying Congress to
Speaker 1: patent the print of an animal. So for example, if
Speaker 1: you wear a leopard print dress, two percent of the
Speaker 1: price of that dress goes to the preservation of leopards.
Speaker 2: In the wild because it belongs to them.
Speaker 4: And I think, but does it have to be is
Speaker 4: it real or is it even if it's a.
Speaker 1: Question just the reproduction, it's the design. The design belongs
Speaker 1: to the so it's not fur, it's the you know,
Speaker 1: the design of a zebra's skin belongs to the zebra,
Speaker 1: so you must you know, if you have zebra skin furniture,
Speaker 1: which I know you have a great deal of, then
Speaker 1: that you had that part of the purchase price of
Speaker 1: that is for or the animal that you ripped off
Speaker 1: the image of. And I kind of quite like that,
Speaker 1: And I wonder if there's a like if you take
Speaker 1: my face and put me in a kind of sexy video.
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that as long as you pay me,
Speaker 1: and it's got to be it's got to be good
Speaker 1: as well. It's got to be you know, it has
Speaker 1: to be good.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I have to look like I'm in shape.
Speaker 2: I don't want anything, you know.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I think that we actors get that, right,
Speaker 4: I mean, don't we get that if they're using our image,
Speaker 4: we are paid for it, right, it's not just taken.
Speaker 2: But I get it wrong. I don't. I think that's right.
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, the image ry because the gray area is
Speaker 1: this if you take I take a photograph of you,
Speaker 1: just a photograph of you, I can animate it through
Speaker 1: AI to make it say things and do things and
Speaker 1: behave in a way.
Speaker 2: Which, yeah, this would be This would be the thing.
Speaker 1: What if the AI photograph of you was a bad
Speaker 1: actor that would really.
Speaker 2: Piss you off?
Speaker 3: That would piss me off the yet.
Speaker 2: Right, And that's that's that's the thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because I did with chat GBT, I did this thing
Speaker 1: where I thought this would be a great way to
Speaker 1: write material quickly. So I said, write me fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: of stand up comedy in the style of Craig Ferguson,
Speaker 1: and it gave me my it's worst piece of shit
Speaker 1: I've ever and I felt, either I'm a really shun
Speaker 1: comedian and chat GPT is the first person that's ever
Speaker 1: had the guts to tell me, or they just you know,
Speaker 1: they don't have it.
Speaker 2: And I think that might be. I'm hoping it's the
Speaker 2: second one.
Speaker 1: That there's something about there's a spark of the divine
Speaker 1: and human creativity that I don't care who your fucking
Speaker 1: computer is, I don't think it can do that.
Speaker 3: Cannot it cannot? I mean, that's that's what we have.
Speaker 4: That's all we have as our value is that it cannot.
Speaker 4: It cannot create original creative content, right, it can't.
Speaker 2: Like it's it can do a reboot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it can do a reboot exactly, but this is
Speaker 4: my point, Like, yes, it can create mediocrity, you know,
Speaker 4: So it's everybody loves mediocrity.
Speaker 3: People don't like to be challenged.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I think I almost one hundred percent agree with you,
Speaker 1: but I think I think not everybody loves medio.
Speaker 3: Okay, ninety nine point eight percent.
Speaker 1: Well fuck those people, because the people I'm interested in
Speaker 1: and this is why I'll never play giant auditoriums because
Speaker 1: I'd rather do what I want to do, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd rather do it, you know. But there is there's
Speaker 1: a reality to it as well. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember people into me. You know, why would you
Speaker 1: do a game show? I'd like, do you know how
Speaker 1: much they pay people to do a game show? It's
Speaker 1: this is also a job I have to air in
Speaker 1: a living as well, And so it's this weird kind
Speaker 1: of makesis like I'm not you know, I'm not someone
Speaker 1: who gets a trust fund to you know, think about
Speaker 1: what I or I'm not independently wealthy or wealthy enough
Speaker 1: to just think only creatively.
Speaker 4: Why, yeah, you know i'd like a new car. Well,
Speaker 4: I mean it's like I love that that is what
Speaker 4: you'd like. I'd like a new car. I think that
Speaker 4: this is the other thing too, right, Like everybody just
Speaker 4: assumes that everyone in the business is rich and that
Speaker 4: everybody that no one has financial problems, and that everybody
Speaker 4: can decide which job to take or not to take,
Speaker 4: and for a while it and I don't think that's
Speaker 4: ever going to go away because there are the people that,
Speaker 4: of course do exist in that world, but they are
Speaker 4: only what five percent of the business, maybe three percent,
Speaker 4: two percent?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 4: Think it's so few of them that exist on that realm.
Speaker 4: And so I'm always always surprised when people are like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's so interesting. You know, you were on four shows
Speaker 4: last year, And I'm like, yeah, because when people say
Speaker 4: they would like me to play a part, I say
Speaker 4: yes because I'm not in a position to say no,
Speaker 4: not today, you know, And I think that that is
Speaker 4: just something that follows us.
Speaker 1: They just I know, they I remember, you know, I've
Speaker 1: said this before, but people say, and you know, they
Speaker 1: would say when you do a red carpet thing or
Speaker 1: some of that, and someone will say what attracted you
Speaker 1: to this role? And You're like, well, yeah, you can't
Speaker 1: say that though. You have to say, well, the script.
Speaker 1: It's always the script and all that. And I go, well,
Speaker 1: you know, because I'll tell.
Speaker 2: You the truth. Here's what I read of the script.
Speaker 1: My lines bullship bullshit bullshit, my line bush and bush
Speaker 1: of bullshit, my line I commend I'll be done by
Speaker 1: three o'clock.
Speaker 2: I'll take it, you know.
Speaker 1: And now I imagine a real actor like you probably
Speaker 1: reads the whole script but there is an element of
Speaker 1: you have to look at the financial realities. It's not
Speaker 1: a great job, it's not a great part, but it'll
Speaker 1: be okay. And I like the guy who is in
Speaker 1: charge of props on that show, so it'll be fine.
Speaker 1: And I think people forget that element too, is like, oh,
Speaker 1: the guy who does one of the producers of the
Speaker 1: show as a friend of mine, so I'll do it
Speaker 1: even although I don't really you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: Too, right, right, we all still do favors for people.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know I have to, Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 4: But I think too that's the bummer as well, is
Speaker 4: that the most creatively fulfilling parts and jobs pay.
Speaker 3: The least amount of money.
Speaker 4: You always yeah, so you know, because you're doing it
Speaker 4: for the love of the craft.
Speaker 3: You aren't doing it for a paycheck.
Speaker 4: So a lot of times the job that are not
Speaker 4: as fulfilling are for a paycheck to pay your bills.
Speaker 4: And that's for me, you know, has always been the
Speaker 4: struggle because I'd like to stay in this business. I'm
Speaker 4: very grateful for the work I've done, the people I've
Speaker 4: worked with, I mean, most of all of my friends
Speaker 4: I have met through what I've done essentially, and you know,
Speaker 4: but I'm also a little disheartened by it. And so
Speaker 4: there is this like, I'm in my fifties, and do
Speaker 4: I want to stay being disappointed by it? Do I
Speaker 4: want to fight for it? And if I want to
Speaker 4: fight for it, what is it that I want to
Speaker 4: fight for?
Speaker 3: Right? Like better roles for women?
Speaker 4: Yes? Of course? Can I do that because those are
Speaker 4: the people I play? I hope, because then people look
Speaker 4: at me already as like, oh, you're the woman who
Speaker 4: kicks ass and who you know tells people like it is.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, those are the characters, you know.
Speaker 3: Me doing that is.
Speaker 4: Constant a little bit tougher because I'm I'm not I'm
Speaker 4: not as confident that I can make a change, but
Speaker 4: I'm gonna fucking try.
Speaker 1: If I wouldn't underestimate yourself there, right, I think I
Speaker 1: have a great deal of faith that you'll be able
Speaker 1: to carve a path through this uh area of turbulence.
Speaker 2: I think you'd be all right. This has been It's
Speaker 2: been so lovely to catch up with you.
Speaker 1: I'm so delighted to talk to you and and and
Speaker 1: just hear your voice and talk to you again.
Speaker 2: It's nice.
Speaker 1: You're such a lovely person. Let move east, come come eat.
Speaker 3: I want to we will, and we've got two more years.
Speaker 4: Our daughter is a junior in high school, and it's exactly.
Speaker 1: I've been exactly where you are. I know exactly the thing.
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna let We'll let her finish high school
Speaker 4: because she loves it, and uh, and then we'll go east, hopefully.
Speaker 3: She said to me the other day.
Speaker 4: She was like, Mom, it's not every teenage kids dream
Speaker 4: that where they go to college, their parents follow them.
Speaker 3: I said, that's not my dream either.
Speaker 4: We told you, we told you three years ago that
Speaker 4: we were going to move to New York when you.
Speaker 3: Graduate high school.
Speaker 4: So if you happen to go to school in New York,
Speaker 4: then you're following us.
Speaker 2: It's a big fucking city.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of room for moms and dads and kids
Speaker 1: only exactly exactly. All right, take care of yourself. It's
Speaker 1: lovely to talk.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you. It was so nice to see you too.
Speaker 2: I mean lovely to see you. And give my regards
Speaker 2: to show business.
Speaker 4: I will if they ever call me, go bye bye bye.
Speaker 4: One or two po