1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up. This episode was filmed while 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: I was on medical bedrest, so it might sound a 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: little bit different in terms of sound quality than the 4 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: rest of our episodes. There Are No Girls on the 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: Internet as a production of I Heart Radio and Unbust Creative, 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: on the Internet. After the release of Dave Chappelle's new 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: comedy special but Closer on Netflix, Netflix staffers and their 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: ally spoke up about the specials transphomabic material and organized 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: to walk out. Chappelle doubled down in a newly released 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: clip where he said Netflix staff that they wanted a 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: safer work environment, but that he's the only one who's 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: not able to get into the building at Netflix anymore. 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm the only one that can't go to the office anymore. 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: But you want to know someone who most definitely cannot 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: get back into the Netflix building. Be Paggles Minor, a 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: very pregnant black transformer program manager who Netflix fired for 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: alleging they were the source of a Bloomberg article about 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: just how much money Netflix spent on the special. Now, 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: Be disputes this, as do their coworkers, and even after 21 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: B was fired, Bloomberg continues to publish new internal metrics 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: from Netflix, making it even more unlikely. B, along with 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: Terra Field, a trans Netflix senior software engineer who was 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 1: suspended for tweeting critically about the special, have filed suits 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: with the National Labor Relations Board, saying that netflix engage 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: in activity took well employees from speaking up about working conditions, 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: including seeking to create a safe and affirming work environment, 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: speaking up about Netflix products and the impact its product 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: choices have on the LGBTQ community, and providing support for 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: employees whom Netflix has treated in an unlawful and disparate manner. 31 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: And as much as Dave Chappelle keeps talking about how 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: he's being canceled, you know, naturally, as one does from 33 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: a massive stage in front of a massive adoring audience 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: while earning millions for it, the demands of the Netflix 35 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: staffers who walked out do not include as Netflix to 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: take down the comedy special. Instead, Netflix staffords are asking 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: for things like comparable investment in trans and non binary 38 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: lead projects at Netflix, and more trans and non binary 39 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: people in leadership positions. B is clear that this is 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: about so much more than one comedy special. So my 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: name is b pagals Minor. My pronounders they them there's 42 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: and my current title is growing a Baby And that's 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: about it. So I read your Washington Post piece and 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: I read the piece on your blog, both of which 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: really talked about this journey for you really kind of 46 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: fully embrace in who you are. And I guess one 47 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: of my questions for you was like, what was it 48 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: like to feel seen in that way, you know, um 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: to share this truth about yourself? Like were you did 50 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you feel seen working at Netflix? Was this something that 51 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, felt it felt like a good fit. Yeah, 52 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's really interesting because I would say yes, 53 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: and though right, so, like, in terms of the internal 54 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: environment at Netflix, I definitely felt like I had a 55 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: lot of support to be a black person, a trans person, 56 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: a lesbian, you know, loud, you know, someone who dissents 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: very loudly, things like that. But but one of the 58 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: complaints I've always had, and something that obviously is coming 59 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: up again here, is the lack of content. So it 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: was so strange to be like this internal employee, feel 61 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: pretty validated, feel pretty supported. But then when I looked 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: at the things around screen, I didn't see anything that 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: looked like me, and that kind of dissonance was one 64 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: of the things that bothered me most about working there. Right, 65 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, I really wanted to say, like, you know, 66 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: fresh long from Mississippi, they are black. Actually the majority 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: of Mississippi is black. Right, the majority of Mississippi is 68 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: also rule. You know, why don't we have shows about that? 69 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: I watched p Valley last year and it was so 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: funny because my friends were like, P Valley doesn't seem 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: like your type of show. I was like, it's about 72 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: it's about black people, missip me. I was so excited. 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, I finadly get to 74 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: see people who are like my family, who google that 75 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: I grew up around. And so it was always like 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: that that a little bit of like, yes, I feel 77 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: good because I have great benefits, have a great salary, 78 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: I get to be loud, I'm doing some of the 79 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: best work of my life. But no, because I really 80 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: feel like we're missing the mark on showing representative lives 81 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: of diverse types of people. Conversations around identity and representation 82 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: at Netflix did not start with Dave Chappelle. Internally, Netflix 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: staffers have been pushing these conversations about whose story gets 84 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: told and by who and how. For years. Like many companies, 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Netflix has employee Resource groups or e r g s, 86 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: employee lead initiatives within a company that worked to create 87 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: inclusivity along certain demographics and identities. There's Dream at Netflix 88 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: to champion immigrant representation, Black at Netflix, h I Am 89 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: at Netflix for Jewish representation Netflix for veteran representation, Indigenous 90 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: at Netflix, and more. Trans Star is the e RG 91 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: that champions trans identity and representation at Netflix that be 92 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: helped lead and after the release of the film Girl, 93 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: a twenty nineteen Belgian film about a trans ballet dancer 94 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: that based criticism for its depiction of things like body 95 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: dysmorphia and self harm in the trans community. It's so 96 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: easy for people to think that these conversations happening internally 97 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: around Netflix and the and the content they produced, so 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: and sort of the way that the content represents or 99 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: does not represent all folks, you know, trans identities, all 100 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: of that. It's easy to think that those conversations began 101 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: and ended with this Dave Chappelle's special, But we know 102 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: that's not true. Can you give me a little bit 103 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: of a history lesson of where these conversations that Netflix 104 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: actually did start. So the trans specific conversation started around 105 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: the release of Girl. So the Girl movie, it was 106 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: definitely it was a misrepresentation of trans culture. And that's 107 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: when you know, it was almost three years ago. That's 108 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: when people first started asking questions about, Hey, like I 109 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: did we put that out there? This is harmful content. 110 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: It's not true, it's a terrible representation of trans culture. Separately, 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: I was also the e r G e r D 112 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: lead for Black At, right, and the black at is 113 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: the oldest e r G out of all the r 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: G s, And they've been talking about that for like 115 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: six or seven years, right, So six or seven years 116 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: they've been talking about black content, black representation, making sure 117 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: contents there. So the conversation around content and having it 118 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: be representative is in the d n A of Netflix. 119 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: For diverse people who have worked there, the question has 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: simply been why the heck has it not moved forward? Like, 121 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: why the heck have we not gotten to the point 122 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: that the content really reflects all of this. This internal debate, 123 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: internal conversation that's been been very very robust, and in fact, 124 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: when you actually think about it, you know a lot 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: of the comments that have been made is, oh, well, 126 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: Netflix is one of the first places that ever had 127 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: a trans person, And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we know. 128 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: Vern was on Orange as a New Black, you know, 129 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: we we know, you know, know me from since. But 130 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, if you can only name two 131 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: or three, that's probably not a good way to go 132 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: about this, you know. And then we also know when 133 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: Laverne was the Orangines and New Black, they were dubbing 134 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: her words with men in other countries. What, yes, they 135 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: really didn't know that and it was so offensive. And 136 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: for instance, trains Star is another great example when trans 137 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: Star was consulted by the dubbing team and they were like, so, 138 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: how should we deal with this in the future, And 139 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: we were like, well, you know, we understand that in 140 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: different countries, in different languages, it might be difficult to 141 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: find someone who perfectly matches someone's voice. And if that 142 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: is the case, just ask the person what they think, 143 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, don't don't just make an arbitrary decision, seek out, support, 144 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: create relationships, and honor people by letting them be representing 145 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: the way that makes most sense to them, right. You know, 146 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: that actually brings up a good point which is that 147 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: is very surprised to hear the Trans Employee Resource Group 148 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: was not really consulted at all and the rollout of 149 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: this special and so part of me was like, why 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: even have this group at Netflix if you're not going 151 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: to actually empower them to be involved when things like 152 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: this are rolled out. And so, for the sake of argument, 153 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: let's say that the Trans Employee Resource Group had been 154 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: consulted during this rollout. Are there things that you could 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: have seen y'all actually like suggesting to make this less harmful? Yeah, 156 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: And that's been that's actually been the number one point here, 157 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: Like there's no desire to stop creative freedom, right, Like 158 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: the simple fact is their contracts. You you move forward 159 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: with the content based on those contracts. But there's no 160 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: desire to stop things. And so when I, you know, 161 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: thought about it, when I first saw it, I was 162 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: just like, why did you all decide to release this 163 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: in October during lgbt Q plus history up, Like that's 164 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: a terrible idea, you know, why did you not think 165 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: about the term turf and how that because that became 166 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: the the like Clason, like that became the thing that 167 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: everyone was focused fign and in fact, it was the 168 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: external groups who were just like, you know, Dave Chappelle's 169 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: a turf. Netflix released this. It was all external people 170 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: who were completely incensed that they saw something like that. 171 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: And so it's like, you know, we could have said, 172 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: you know, the trans Star group could have said, by 173 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: the way, you may want to just cut that joke, 174 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: like you know, you may want to like you know, 175 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: tweak that or like as And the thing is and 176 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: when I say that, I mean talk to Dave about 177 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: it and say, Dave, your bigger point is this like 178 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: lgbt Q plus movement versus black movement, and your point 179 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: is gonna get lost because of this statement, right, And 180 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: so it's about making the content get to his point 181 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: versus having all of this fure around it. And so 182 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's what trans Star does, That's what 183 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: trains Star has always offered to do. One of the 184 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: other things that I did is trying to star our 185 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: lead was also to meet with consent executives and all 186 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: and I called it the friendship offensive. And all we 187 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: would do is go have conversations with these folks and say, hey, 188 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: we're humans, we're great, we can help you make great 189 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: content and I'm gonna tell you some of the pieces 190 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: of you know, productions that we worked on. I know 191 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: for a fact that they're so much better because we 192 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: just sat down with those people and told them different ways, 193 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: and they would send us emails and say, what do 194 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: you think of this? What do you think of that? 195 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: And all we did was consult, you know. It was 196 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: never oh like, you know, we are the the we 197 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: are the barrier to this amazing thing being created. It 198 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: was how can we make it better so that Netflix's 199 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: reputation isn't harm, so that trans people aren't harm and 200 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: so that people get a good message out of it. 201 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: That's such a good point because the only thing I 202 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: have heard about this uh comedy special is the transphobia 203 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: and the turf comments and the and the DK rounding 204 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: comments whatever. The other point David's trying to make it 205 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: did not reach me. It did not reach Twitter, and 206 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: I don't I have to wonder like was that actually hit? 207 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: Like I I feel like if he had been open 208 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: to be thought partners with you all, his special would 209 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: have been that much better, that much more, you know, 210 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 1: just that much more truthful and authentic. And it's like 211 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: what a missed opportunity to make something better and also 212 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: less harmful, Like what a win win that was just missed. Yeah, 213 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things I saw someone tweaked. 214 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: They were like, I haven't seen anyone dropped a video, 215 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: a gift, a meme of the Special. They had a 216 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: joke in it, and they were like, how can the 217 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: Special be successful if they haven't dropped the single one? 218 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: And I was like, you have a point. They've only 219 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: dropped the really incendiary things and so go and so 220 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: to your point is true, Like, you know, I do 221 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: feel like the Special could have been so much more 222 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: powerful if there had been that partnership, because I do 223 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: think I understand what he's trying to say. I disagree 224 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: with it, right like. And I would say this because 225 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: so a certain instance, the Specials trying to pick LGBTQ 226 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: plus versus a civil rights movement. I am a black 227 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: trans person. I'm at the intersection of these two groups. 228 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: I get screwed over by both groups, right like like 229 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: like legitimately I get screwed over by both groups, and 230 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,599 Speaker 1: so like, I do think that this oppressional olympics, like 231 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: one movement hurting another movement. I don't think that's true. 232 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: In fact, if you think about the same sex marriage 233 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: law that went into effect many years ago, they actually 234 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, used loving versus Virginia as part of their 235 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: their logic behind it, because they're saying that minority individuals 236 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: deserve the same rights as anyone else in this country. 237 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: And so I actually think that both the civil rights 238 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: movement and lgbt Q rights movement movement are in trip 239 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: like they're intrinsically leaning, and we would be empowered by 240 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: uniting them versus assuming that one happens over the other one. 241 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: And it just I mean, I completely agree, we're we're 242 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: definitely our movements are stronger together when we support each other. 243 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: And it completely erases people at the intersections, like yourself, 244 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: as something about Dave's comedy seems to suggest that lgbt 245 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: l g it's like that book, all the women are white, 246 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: all the men are black, right, Like all the lgbt 247 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: Q folks are just default white, all of the black 248 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: folks are default CIS. And it's like it completely erases 249 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: that people exist at those intersections in a way that 250 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: I feel like it's so like ven like like get 251 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: your get your attitudes and your ideas into two thousand 252 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: into ony one, you know, exactly exactly. And the simple 253 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: effect is, and you know, I think it was time 254 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: like three or four years ago they were talking about 255 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: what the future of the world's gonna look like, and 256 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: all those people had meling it okay, right, like that's 257 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: I mean, let's just be truthful the way that the 258 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: world is actually changing, the way that it's actually evolving. 259 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean, even gen Z, such a large percentage of 260 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: gen Z around the world is completely open to not 261 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: only lgbt Q plus people, but they're coming out increasingly earlier, right, 262 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: so you know, you have like no eight, twelve, fifteen, sixteen, 263 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: you know year olds come out and saying, yeah, I'm 264 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: a part of the lgbt Q plus community, which is 265 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: not something that has ever happened before. The world is 266 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: changing rapidly, right, and so the fact that we continue 267 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: to have these like very antiquated conversations, it's just very 268 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: disturbing to me. And it's a sign of how some 269 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: people are. Like this is why you have to be 270 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: thoughtful and you have to listen, right, Like I am 271 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: now considering the elder like, because you know, I'm over 272 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: a certain age, I'm an elder now right in my community, 273 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: because in the trans community most like so, there's been 274 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: a statistic that says that many black trans people do 275 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: not make it to the age of thirty five. I 276 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: am not over thirty five, so I'm like a grandparent, 277 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: Like that's how that's how they perceive me. And it's 278 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: just so interesting to me because even for me, I 279 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: have to take a step back and listen to the 280 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: younger people because they're like, you're more conservative than I am. 281 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I guess I am right 282 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: because I grew up in a completely different generation. I 283 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: came out much later because I was afraid, and you 284 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: don't have that through mechanism that keeps you from being 285 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: your whole self. And I actually mire you. What do 286 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: you mean me to help you with? Because you're so 287 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: much further along than I was, And all I'm trying 288 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: to do is make sure that you have a safe place. 289 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. First of all, I would have never thought 290 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: you were over thirty five. That's so beautiful, you know, 291 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: So this is that's black. It's so true. Let's take 292 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: a quick break at our back in n Eddie Murphy 293 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: released to Stand Up Special Eddie Murphy Rock and Murphy 294 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: has this whole bit about how gay people didn't like 295 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: his home with public jokes, and how whenever he goes 296 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: out to parties or out on the town he feels 297 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: like there's going to be a gay mob out looking 298 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: for him. Only he doesn't say gay people. He uses 299 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: a slur and it won't be no siren and to 300 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: be a real facts and under roof. Now, something about 301 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: this line, the idea of a gay person strapped to 302 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: the top of a car as a siren, really stuck 303 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: with me. And the takeaway from me when I was 304 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: watching was that gay people are basically less than human 305 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: and that pointing this out is funny. I mean, like, 306 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: listen to this crowd. They were loving it, and I 307 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: interpreted that making fun of gay people was a clear 308 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: pathway to acceptance from others. Now, I was watching this 309 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: when I was just a kid. I've already known that 310 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: something was up with me, but I had not yet 311 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: come the terms with being a queer person. And I 312 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: watched the way that these kinds of jokes about gay 313 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: people got Eddie Murphy so much loud, clear acceptance from 314 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: other black people, and it was confusing to me At 315 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: a time when I was already really confused in twenty nineteen, 316 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: any where if you actually be visited his past homophobic 317 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: comedy routines. In an interview with The New York Times, 318 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: he said that he looks back on all those old 319 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: jokes and cringes. I was a young guy processing a 320 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: broken heart and kind of an asshole, he said. He 321 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: apologized for spreading homophobia and ignorant comments about HIV, saying 322 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: that he's much more educated now. I now have a 323 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: lifetime of experiences to draw upon. There was a time 324 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: when I was at the center of everything, what I 325 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: was doing, and how funny I was, and how popular 326 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: I was. I'm not the center anymore, he said. Now, 327 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: instead of rarely against being canceled by the PC police, 328 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: he reflected, he evolved, there's this attitude I've heard over 329 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: and over again that what a comedian says on stage 330 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: is just a joke. It doesn't have any real world impact. 331 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: Now there are scores of studies that suggest otherwise. And 332 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: be put in another way, if someone is starting out 333 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: from a place whereas many of the messages around them 334 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: are telling them that there aren't even a full person. 335 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: Adding to that chorus, makes things that much harder. Something 336 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: that I'm kind of kind of almost sick of hearing 337 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: is this idea that like, oh, it's just jokes, it's 338 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: just jokes. I'm sure I don't need to tell you 339 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: that study after study after study has shown, you know, 340 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: a direct correlation between transphobic rhetoric and anti fans of violence. 341 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: And so you know, what do you say to people 342 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: who were like, oh, how many specials don't translate to 343 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: real world harm? Like, like, what do you you? Probably 344 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: I know that I have heard that argument over and 345 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: over again, like what do we say this stuff like that? So, 346 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: first of all, we know that's not true, because if 347 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: that was not If that was true, then a five 348 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: year old grudge rated our movie, right, Like, we know 349 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: that the content on the screen impacts people. Now, the 350 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: thing is is that that doesn't mean that, like today, 351 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: after they watch the special, they're gonna go out and 352 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: beat up someone who's trans. But that does mean that 353 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: someone is forming an opinion about trans people based on 354 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: the content that they're seeing, and that they could be 355 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: discriminatory towards trans people or they could be violent towards 356 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: trans people. Later, we also know that the content that 357 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: exists on the screen also internally impacts the people who 358 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: are the target of that content, right, So, like you know, 359 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: we also think about self hard if you're seeing this 360 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: type of content, if you're seeing people talk about this 361 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: and this type of dialogue, and you already are in 362 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: a place where you're not a whole per right, you 363 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: know I was when I first started out. I used 364 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: to tell people, you know, naturally I am. I wake 365 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: up every day with my glass half empty, right, I'm 366 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: a diverse person. I'm a multi diverse person. And so 367 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: I hear constantly, whether it's about me being black and 368 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: potentially being less than, whether it's about me being non 369 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: male and so somehow not being strong. Whether it's about 370 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: me being trans and my differentness there, Whether it's about me, 371 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, being married to a woman and how different 372 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: that is. You know, how what is you like about 373 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: me being married to a white woman and how I've 374 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: betrayed my race? Like, all of these things are coming 375 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: through constantly, and so when you put out this content, 376 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: all it's doing is trying to diminish a little bit 377 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: that's in that glass, right, the little bit of hope 378 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: in the dreams there. I'm very fortunate because I have 379 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: an amazing support system and I have an amazing amount 380 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: of education, and fis school ability because I've been so 381 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: successful in technology for so long that I have been 382 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: able to fill that glass back up to almost four. 383 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: But many people cannot. And so when you think about 384 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: this content, all it's doing is diminishing the potential of 385 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: those people, and then we lose out on that potential, Like, 386 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: as a society, we are literally losing out on bright 387 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: lights who could help change this world because of the 388 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: content we're choosing to push through out there without also 389 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: making sure that we put out affirming content too. How 390 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: hard is it to make another pose? Really? Post was 391 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: pretty cheap. It was really cheap. You know, we can 392 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: make like five poses and people would be so happy. 393 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: That's such a good point, and I think it takes me. 394 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: It takes me to this idea. There's obviously bullshit, but 395 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: this idea that, oh, these Netflix staffers they want to 396 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: cancel Dave Chappelle. But when you actually look at the 397 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: demands that staffers were putting forth that Netflix, it's stuff like, 398 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, can we invest in a comparable way for 399 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: trans and gender not conforming and non binary creators, you know, 400 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: can we elevate like trans content like the Disclosure documentary, 401 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: which I love, you know, can we can we promote 402 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: that on the platform. It is such common sense things, 403 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 1: and yet it gets sort of I don't know, telephoned 404 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: into they want to cancel Dave Chappelle. And I guess 405 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: my question is how do we combat this idea when 406 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: there are so many people who are just hell bent 407 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: on believing the absolute worst about the intentions here, Because 408 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: when you actually look at the demands, it's just like 409 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: what you're saying, like invest in trans and gender not 410 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: conforming creators, and that will actually improve the platform. Netflix 411 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: will be better for it, And yet that gets sort 412 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: of mistranslated into something that's just that completely not true. 413 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Opera said it best, just like there's just 414 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: some people who are not gonna convince, Right, you're just 415 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: not going to convince. That's not the people were trying 416 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: to convince. We're trying to find that middle ground of people, 417 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: the middle ground of people who are still trying to 418 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: learn to be educated, who just want to know more, 419 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: and so that that's the that's the main thing I'm 420 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: focusing on, right. The reason I agreed to go on 421 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: these podcasts and things like that is to spread this 422 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: message because the people who listen to you, the piece 423 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: of people who are looking looking at the out that 424 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: those people are the ones who still have that ability 425 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: to be swayed. And the thing about that is is 426 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: if if we sway a few of those people, they're 427 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: also related to the other people, right, And so hopefully 428 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: they'll go in and say, hey, I don't want to 429 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: hear that today, right, And and also this new thing. Hopefully, 430 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: if you know, Netflix moves forward with with meeting some 431 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: of these demands, there will be a new piece of 432 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: content out there at some point that they watch as 433 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: a trans character and that they love just because it's 434 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: a good show. And then eventually that will work out 435 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: like this is a long term this is a mayor 436 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: her though. This is not a short term thing. We're 437 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: not going to change everyone's mind short term. And the 438 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: thing is we shouldn't. If it was that easy to 439 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: change people's minds, wouldn't be such hard work, right when 440 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: you think about, you know, the other day will be 441 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: Goberry was talking about the civil rights movement, and she 442 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: was talking about the fact that if we had waited 443 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: for people to change their minds on the value of 444 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: black people. Black people still wouldn't have the rights to 445 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: vote today. And I feel as though this is the 446 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: same exact conversation, the same as that conversation that you know, 447 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: there's still so much movement we have to do for 448 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: trans people, for black people, for women, for Latin X people, 449 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: for Asian people. This is a NonStop marathon to have 450 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: diverse people be seen as equal and have the equity 451 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: they deserve in this country. The conditions that you are creating, 452 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: I think can create change. That it's lasting, it's meaningful, 453 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: that that reverberates it is it is. It does not 454 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: begin and end with Dave Chappelle's funky special Like this 455 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: is a movement that had that has long to longer 456 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: term longevity, and I just love to see that. And 457 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: I feel like in every statement, and you know, the 458 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: thing that the that the staffers have put up that's 459 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: been so salient to me. So I just loved to 460 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: see that so much. M you know, one of the 461 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: things that I it's kind of a personal pet peeve 462 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: of mine. So many of the people that I talked 463 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: to on this podcast, you know, they are marginalized people 464 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: they are historically underrepresented people. They work in tech companies, 465 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: tech platforms. They're the ones who are putting in all 466 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: this hard work of making these companies and these platforms 467 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: look progressive or woke or with it. Now. Internally, they 468 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: might be ostracized for this work. They might be punished 469 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: for this work. They might be fired for this work. 470 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: But the companies are super okay with taking credit for 471 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: it and being like, yeah, we're a woke company, We're 472 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: so progressive, yeah, all of that. You know, do you 473 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: feel like that's sort of happening here, that it is 474 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: staffers who are already marginalized who are making getting Netflix 475 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: the shine to be like, oh we are with it, 476 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: whot progressive, new fresh, all of that, but also behind 477 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: the scenes punishing those same staffers. You know. The one 478 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: thing I will say is is that there have been 479 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: an internal movement before I was like, go to start 480 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: rewarding people who worked with E r G S financially, right, 481 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: you know, to to to take that into account for 482 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: their review. And it was the first time I've ever 483 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: been at a company that it actually had that note 484 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: that conversation. But I will say that this is thankless 485 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: work typically, right, you know, you're doing all this work 486 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: to create an environment that's great, that makes the company 487 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: look great, and a lot of people don't really see 488 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: that as a part of your work, and so that's 489 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: something that needs to change, right because e r G 490 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: work not only does it, you know, help the company 491 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: see what's going wrong, but it also helps retain talent. 492 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I was asked 493 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: to participate in something thing, whether it was you know, 494 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: trans Star or black at that helps make sure that 495 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: a person didn't leave Netflix, right because I was able 496 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: to help negotiate and explain to people what was going on, 497 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, when it came to the company culture, making 498 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: sure that they understood where the culture had issues. You know, 499 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: that type of work is super super important. And it 500 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: also is something that you know is it's it's it's invaluable, right, 501 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: it's invaluable. There's no way to calculate how much that 502 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: does for the company. And so I do think that 503 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: this is something companies really need to think about, is 504 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: how do you figure out what that value is because 505 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: it is a differentiator between you retaining someone and not 506 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: retaining someone. People want to work at companies where they 507 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: feel respected, and safe, and I think that like that 508 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: is a conversation that I that I feel like it's 509 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: easy to be missed in this particular situation, is that 510 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: like I wouldn't It doesn't surprise me that people are 511 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: not necessarily feeling respected, listen to, seeing, heard, valued, safe, 512 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: And I feel like these days people are unwilling to 513 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: attach themselves to companies that do not respect them. And 514 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: I think that's great, but people want to feel respected 515 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: in their workplaces. And you know, I saw that statement 516 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: that the CEO of net Let's put out where he 517 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know this, I'd handle this badly, 518 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: all of that, but not seeing the way that that 519 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: trickles down to the staff. But at that at the 520 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: top decisions make people feel so disrespected and unseen and 521 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: unheard and unvalued. And how there are people like yourself 522 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: who were going in and plugging those leaks and doing 523 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: the work of of doing some recond and saying like, 524 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, are you thinking about leaving? How are you feeling? Like, 525 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: talk to me about where you're at, where you're where 526 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: your head is at. All of that, you know that 527 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: is valuable work. Yeah, And not only that, but also 528 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: his apology which I will say is not an apology, 529 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: said like one of them was like, oh, it's because 530 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: we've been working from home. They forgot how good they 531 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: have it. And I was like, that's what an abusive 532 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: relationship says. Yeah, like you make them today so that 533 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: you should appreciate me. And I'm just like, but you 534 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: hit me the other day, Like I don't like, it 535 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: doesn't work like that. So yeah, no, I definitely feel like, 536 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, it missed the mark right, because it really 537 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: is more about how do you show up right? You know. 538 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: Folks asked me like, what should those emails, those first 539 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: memos or emails should have said, and I said, it's 540 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: very simple. It should have said, hey, we dropped the 541 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: ball on this one. We should have done a better job. 542 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk. And that's three sentences. His actual memo was 543 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: like two pages, because's two redous to say nothing exactly, 544 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: and so like that's the thing. Apologies are just apologies, 545 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: like you don't have to like you don't have it 546 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: does have to be convoluted. You don't have to justify yourself. 547 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: It is apologized, have a conversation, figure out corrective actions, 548 00:28:48,040 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: don't do anything more. After a quick break let's get 549 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: right back into it. I saw that Dave Chappelle said 550 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: that he'd be willing to meet with Netflix staffers that 551 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: don't want to includes you because Netflix fired you unfortunately. 552 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: Do you think that that would be like? What do 553 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: you be willing to meet with him? Do you feel 554 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: like that would be fruitful or productive? Or would that 555 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: be like is that just like not even where your 556 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: head is out? I mean I was telling me with him, 557 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: the whole point of this is to educate people, right, 558 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: And Dave says that he cares right, like, so that's 559 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: some of the part of his statements too. He's like this, 560 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: this isn't me versus them, you know, this is about 561 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, other things, And so I would be glad 562 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: to meet with him. And also I don't have to 563 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: be there. I could also, you know, if he wants 564 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: to reach out, I can help him connect with the 565 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: Netflix people as well, because this isn't about me, right, 566 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: this is about the work and then making sure this 567 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: work gets done. Um. And I hope that he would 568 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: actually listen. And actually I think he had mentioned recently 569 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: he was you know, he said something like, but you 570 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: have to have watched a special and I'm like, well, 571 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: like we all have either read the transcriptive watched the special, 572 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: so we've already done all of our homework. I would 573 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: ask him to look up what churf ideology actually means, um, 574 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: and also understand a little bit more about transgender biology, 575 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, just so we can actually start off on 576 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the same playing field in terms of you know, what 577 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Other than that, I let's go for it. 578 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: In the piece that I've read on your blog, you 579 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: reference this like really famous um Baldwin quote, to be 580 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: a new girl in this country is to be relatively conscious, 581 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: and to be relatively conscious is to be in the 582 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: rage most of the time. And you kind of had 583 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: your own spin on it. You said, to be a 584 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: black trans person in America is a study and courage 585 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: and a fierce desire to not be forgotten. And so 586 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: it just seems like black trans folks are so easily 587 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: erased and forgotten, not just in this conversation but everywhere. 588 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: And you know, y'all have always been here. Y'all are 589 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: part of our history. And I guess I wonder do 590 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: you find yourself being like you have to constantly create 591 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: these monuments to your existence so that doesn't get erased, 592 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: and not just monuments here existence, but this idea that 593 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, black trans existence is more than just like 594 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: trauma and pain making, making sure that there's room for 595 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: black trans joy, black trans dreams, black trans brilliance, Like 596 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: how do we build monuments to all to the three 597 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,239 Speaker 1: sixty degrees that is black transmiss Yeah, you know, it's 598 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: so funny. I was talking to my cousin, because you 599 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: know my cousin, he he was talking about you know, 600 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the special and um how it didn't hit for him, 601 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: and we started talking about black trans people and on 602 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, translative remembrance. The majority of the names that's 603 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: going to be read out as people have been killed 604 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: this year are black trans people. And it's so interesting 605 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: because those people are just the people we know about. 606 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: Those are the people who had someone who advocated for them, 607 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: who said this person was a black person, this person 608 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: was a trans person. Because many people don't have legal 609 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: name changes, like they don't have any they don't have 610 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: people who are affirming of their identity um to to 611 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: represent their story. In fact, I was telling my cousin 612 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: that I'm so fortunate because like my legal name is beat, 613 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: Like this is the name I chose, My documents show 614 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: that I'm a trans person. There's an entire reflection now 615 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 1: in the zeke, the zeitgeist that says that I am 616 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: being so no one can take my story from me, right, 617 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: no one can take my story from me. And so 618 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: that is the point, is the fact that so many 619 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: people live these amazing, colorful, beautiful lives that are cut 620 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: short and because of the fact that as a society 621 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: we're not quite where we need to be to understand 622 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: and be respectful that identity. Right. It's actually really funny 623 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: because people talk about that you should have privacy in 624 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: your home, but what we actually talk about, like what 625 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: we actually see for black trans people, is that as 626 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: soon as you die, your privacy go the way. You 627 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: become a part of the public conversation and they choose 628 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: who you are. And so that's the thing about all 629 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: of this. This is about choice. It's like, why do 630 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: we choose to harm, Why do we choose to defame? 631 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: Why do we choose to let people be forgotten when 632 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: we know they existed and they should be honored as such. 633 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: And so that is the real core piece of this, 634 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: And so it's a it's an increasingly frustrating thing for 635 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 1: me because he means, you know, there's a young man 636 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: from Mississippi who was killed recently and his entire family 637 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: mis gendered him. And it's his family, it's his chosen 638 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: family who has done this work to get out the 639 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: message of who he was. And I just think it's 640 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: someone else from Mississippi who is just so fortunate that 641 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: I get to control by story. And it's like with 642 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: Hamilton's who will tell your story? If Hamilton's wife wasn't 643 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: so bombed, who knows what we would know about Alexander 644 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: Hamilton's right, Like, you know, that's the thing that's crazy 645 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: about this, that's beautifull. The where can folks support you, 646 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: support black trans folks more broadly, and what it folks 647 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: do to support the Netflix staffers who are continue to 648 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: continuing to speak out. So first and foremost for the 649 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: Netflix staffers, continue to spread the message about what's really 650 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: been asked for. So if you look at Twitter that 651 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: are trans at Netflix Twitter handle and so the asker, 652 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: they're continue to share those asks so that people can 653 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: understand what the real ask is. Here to um watch 654 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: trans things So disclosure document is great. Also watch post 655 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: because post. Really, so as as a young person, young 656 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: black James person coming up the post that actually definitely 657 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: represents a lot of my communities that I first met 658 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: and who who helped me become cool because I was 659 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: a dork. UM, So I think that's really great to 660 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: support black trans content, especially posed to UM. And then 661 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: for just generally, this is just the beginning, right, So 662 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: this is just the beginning. So there's a lot of 663 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: organizations out there. So trans Lifeline is a great organization. 664 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: How are Brown Help in Chicago is one of the 665 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: premier institutions treating trans folks and doing research on trans books. UM. 666 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: The Transgenderal Law Center is also an amazing place to 667 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: support to they're doing really really great work. GLAD is 668 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: a great place to support because they're trying to help 669 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: talk about this media representation and change that. And then 670 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: for me, I'm b Pagal's minor everywhere. Follow me on Twitter, 671 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, because that's rarely where I post a lot 672 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: of content that I find that I think is very interesting. 673 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: They can help people understand a little bit more context 674 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: as well. UM. But first and foremost, educate yourself. You know, 675 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: if there's a curiosity that you have that you don't 676 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: really know what's going on. Chances are there the document, 677 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: there's someone who's tweeting about there's someone who can help 678 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: give you that context so that you can feel more comfortable, because, 679 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: like you know, this is a long journey, Like you know, 680 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: it's definitely not something that you figure out overnight. Mm hmm, okay, 681 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: I actually have one Las Curveball question for you. He 682 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: stricked me. As someone who likes movies, like TV, likes music, 683 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: do you remember a time when a piece of media 684 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: or piece of content or piece of art made you 685 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: feel seen and affirmed. Post is a great example of 686 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: something for me where I cried when I first saw it, 687 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: Like I could not believe that those were the like 688 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: the drag shows, the ballroom. I was just like, this 689 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: is this is literally what I first got exposed to, right, 690 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: So this is before I came out of trans because, 691 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: like I was, I refused to acknowledge the fact that 692 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: I was trans. And I was in Memphis, Tennessee. I 693 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: was home from college and my mother, my mother of 694 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: all people, took me to the club to see a 695 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: drag show because she was just like, I feel like 696 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: you need to see this. I was like Mama was 697 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: no no, and so like I ended up doing to 698 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: this drag show with my mother, which was really bomb, 699 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: and I met a bunch of like a bunch of 700 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,800 Speaker 1: like the drag community, you know, who are also trans. 701 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: And so some of the first things imposed like I 702 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: literally feel like they were exactly the exact same scene 703 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: from when I first came out or when I first 704 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: started to discover that maybe I might be different, and 705 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: so that's a huge thing. And the second example, which 706 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: is like really strange and I don't know why I 707 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: feel this way about this, but the second example is purple, right. 708 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: I think it's because of Princess Androgyny, and so like 709 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: I kind of felt like, you know, I was like 710 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: I felt a little scene. And also it was so complicated, 711 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: right because he was like this brilliant artist, but he's 712 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: also so like messed up, and like I just felt 713 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: like I just really got it because like I just yeah. 714 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: And so I mean I watched I rewatched that movie 715 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: like probably multiple times a year, and the whole soundtrack 716 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: is like that's my soundtrack. If I'm in a move, 717 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta listen to the best soundtrack. So 718 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: the you are you have no idea if if I 719 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: could turn you around and show you all the different 720 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: Prince iconography in my apartment. Purple rain is my thing, 721 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: Princes my thing, and again like it, Prince was someone 722 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: who made me feel seen, especially in the black community, 723 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: because you know, I grew up in the South, and 724 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: I grew up with my uncle's making gay jokes and 725 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: using slurs. And everybody liked Prince like it didn't like 726 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: even though there was a Prince was androvnus. Even though 727 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: Prince was like, as my uncles would say, fruity, people 728 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: fucked with Prince. And so to see the power that 729 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: he had in our community was it was intoxicating. I 730 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: completely feel you on the prints, completely feel you, and 731 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, and he could get anybody he wanted, man, woman, 732 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: like anybody in the whole world. I'm pretty sure Prince 733 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: could walk into the room and just look at you. 734 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: You'd be like, I, okay, where we don't go? Yeah, 735 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: that's I think that's the other part of it is 736 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: that it just completely redefined what masculinity, what femininly, what 737 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: everything was. And I think that that's one of those 738 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: things that he probably did more work for so many 739 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: different types of people than almost any other artists, and 740 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't want to not a woman, not a man. 741 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: Something you'll never understand the power of art, I mean 742 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,959 Speaker 1: the power of representation, of power of art, the power 743 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: of creativity. It's it's unmatched. Got a story about an 744 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi? 745 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com. 746 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tang 747 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: godi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet 748 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of 749 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Stricklett as our executive producer. 750 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato 751 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If 752 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us 753 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,959 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, 754 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever 755 00:39:48,320 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Eight