Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener, discretion is advised, hey, friends,
Speaker 1: before we get started with this live episode that we
Speaker 1: recorded in New Hampshire a couple of weeks back. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to hop on and sincerely thank you all
Speaker 1: so much for the success of season one of Haunted Road.
Speaker 1: We are hard at work on season two, and new
Speaker 1: episodes begin on January five. So in the meantime, follow
Speaker 1: me on social media at Amy Bruney on just about everything,
Speaker 1: or you can join us on a Strange Escapes trip
Speaker 1: by heading to Strange dash escapes dot com. We have
Speaker 1: a ton planned for, including a European cruise that I
Speaker 1: am especially excited about. Also, new episodes of Kindred Spirits,
Speaker 1: my TV show on Travel Channel and Discovery Plus, start
Speaker 1: on December. So have a wonderful season and cheers two
Speaker 1: lots of spookiness in so enjoy. Oh my goodness. All right,
Speaker 1: can everyone hear me? Okay, before we get started, I
Speaker 1: want to warn you that some of the accounts and
Speaker 1: experiences I am going to relate to you are absolutely
Speaker 1: horrifying and disturbing. Usually usually when listening to Haunted Road,
Speaker 1: there is a pause or fast forward button. You all
Speaker 1: don't have that option, but I promise we won't judge
Speaker 1: you if you need to leave at any point. But
Speaker 1: this is a live recording, so please don't slam the
Speaker 1: door on the way out. That being said, I have
Speaker 1: an apology to make. On the season one finale of
Speaker 1: Haunted Road. During the interview with Adam Burry and John Tenney,
Speaker 1: Adam brought up the story of a painting here at
Speaker 1: the Mount Washington Hotel where we are recording right now,
Speaker 1: and I said I would tell the story of the
Speaker 1: painting at the end of the episode. But guess what
Speaker 1: I didn't do. So the episode was released and immediately
Speaker 1: my social media went wild with folks dying to know
Speaker 1: the story of the painting. So here, actually, sitting inside
Speaker 1: the Mount Washington Hotel, I will tell you so. First
Speaker 1: of all, if you have not listened to the season
Speaker 1: finale of Haunted Roads, stop right now and head back
Speaker 1: to season one, episode twelve, then rejoin me here for this,
Speaker 1: especially macab Tail. Except for all of you sitting here,
Speaker 1: you are stuck hanging just off the lobby of the resort, here,
Speaker 1: just inside the hallway. To the right of the front desk,
Speaker 1: you will see two large paintings. One is Caroline Stickney
Speaker 1: and one is Joseph Stickney, the man who built this
Speaker 1: hotel and died just a year later. There they are
Speaker 1: regally looking down at you as you pass, an homage
Speaker 1: a reminder of their prominence in the history of the hotel.
Speaker 1: Except there is something very very off there. In April
Speaker 1: of seven years before the Mount Washington Hotel was built,
Speaker 1: a horrible bank robbery took place in Somersworth, New Hampshire.
Speaker 1: The cashier, a gentleman seventy years of age, was brutally
Speaker 1: murdered by the bank robber. A description of how he
Speaker 1: was found is described in a clipping from the United
Speaker 1: Opinion as on the floor, in a great pool of
Speaker 1: blood was the body of the cashier. His head had
Speaker 1: been nearly severed from the trunk. The head was marked
Speaker 1: with several deep gashes made by a blackjack, and the
Speaker 1: skull was fractured. The body was covered with blood, and
Speaker 1: the walls and furniture bore additional evidence of the terrible deed.
Speaker 1: It could be seen at a glance that the cashier
Speaker 1: had not died without fighting desperately for the Book's chairs
Speaker 1: and other furniture were scattered over the floor behind the counter.
Speaker 1: Physicians who have examined the body say it is apparent
Speaker 1: that the victim was pounded to death after being rendered unconscious.
Speaker 1: Another fact brought out by the autopsy is that the
Speaker 1: weapon used to cut the victim's throat was a medium
Speaker 1: sized knife, the blade of which was very dull and
Speaker 1: left a deep, but irregular wound. The jugular vein was
Speaker 1: severed and the wound extended from one side of the
Speaker 1: head across the throat to a point under the other ear. Now,
Speaker 1: the bank robber was eventually caught. His name was Joseph Kelly.
Speaker 1: The Somersworth police caught onto him and learned he had
Speaker 1: traveled north. They traced his movement to a town in Quebec. There,
Speaker 1: he had paid a hotel keeper ten dollars in gold
Speaker 1: for a woman's dress and left the hotel wearing the dress,
Speaker 1: saying that he wanted to surprise his wife, who lived
Speaker 1: in Montreal. Kelly was found in a Montreal brothel, sitting
Speaker 1: between two prostitutes and still wearing the dress. He was
Speaker 1: subsequently arrested and jailed for his crime. But what of
Speaker 1: the bank cash here, Well, it turns out the bank
Speaker 1: cashier's name was Joseph Stickney. Decades later, the hotel commissioned
Speaker 1: portraits of Caroline Stickney and Joseph Stickney to hang in
Speaker 1: the lobby, except the artist somehow got his hands on
Speaker 1: a rendering of the bank cashier, not the Joseph Stickney
Speaker 1: who built this hotel. So the portrait you see in
Speaker 1: the lobby is not of the wealthy business tycoon Joseph Stickney,
Speaker 1: but of the seventy years old murdered bank cashier, Joseph Stickney.
Speaker 1: So now that we've cleared that up, and speaking of
Speaker 1: crimes and criminals, let's take a journey to another notoriously
Speaker 1: haunted location, a place not nearly as charming or bougie
Speaker 1: as where we are now. Friends, we are headed to
Speaker 1: Eastern State Penitentiary. I'm Amy Brune, and this is haunted road.
Speaker 1: In sevente Dr Benjamin Rush founded the Philadelphia Society for
Speaker 1: Alleviating the Miseries of Public Prisons, the first prison reform
Speaker 1: group in the world. Benjamin Franklin joined the group on
Speaker 1: August thirteen. Just two years later, Dr Rush oversaw the
Speaker 1: formation of penitentiary house with a capacity of sixteen cells.
Speaker 1: It was built in the Walnut Street Jail in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: and an experiment with day and night solitary confinement began. Dr.
Speaker 1: Benjamin Rush and others in the Society hoped to outlaw
Speaker 1: public punishments and replace the current overcrowded and corrupt prison
Speaker 1: system with a system of private solitary confinement. Rush proposed
Speaker 1: a radical idea to build a true penitentiary, a prison
Speaker 1: design to inspire j new and regret and penitence in
Speaker 1: the hearts of people convicted of crimes. From the inception
Speaker 1: of the Society in the late seventeen eighties, it took
Speaker 1: more than three decades before Eastern State Penitentiary was constructed.
Speaker 1: The group of Philadelphians who conceived and designed Eastern State
Speaker 1: Penitentiary were working within the framework of the newly industrializing cities.
Speaker 1: Formal institutions of many sorts were being developed to replace
Speaker 1: the informal methods of managing community life. Everything from banking
Speaker 1: to the education of the deaf was becoming specialized, professionalized,
Speaker 1: and controlled. These leaders promoted the development of orphanages, almshouses, schools,
Speaker 1: and cemeteries. ESP then takes some of its importance from
Speaker 1: the fact that it was an integral part of an
Speaker 1: urban renovation that included many new facilities for community improvement.
Speaker 1: After Russia, society spent years advocating for a new way
Speaker 1: of imprisonment beyond the seventeen ninety Walnut Straight Jail. The
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania legislature approved funding to build the Eastern State Penitentiary
Speaker 1: in eighty one. Once construction was greenlit by the state,
Speaker 1: four hopeful architects submitted their designs for consideration. Of those,
Speaker 1: John Havelind, a British architect who had settled in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: won the commission. He received a one hundred dollar prize
Speaker 1: for his design. Rival, architect William Strickland, whose design had
Speaker 1: been rejected, was chosen to oversee the construction. Strickland, however,
Speaker 1: was fired from this position the following year, and Haveland
Speaker 1: was hired in his place to oversee the construction of
Speaker 1: his initial design. Havelan saw the project through to its
Speaker 1: completion in eighteen thirty six. The bones of the building
Speaker 1: were shaped to reflect the religious aspirations of its creators,
Speaker 1: Although modern these were still sparse and austere spaces. Prisoners
Speaker 1: could choose between reading the Bible or honest work like
Speaker 1: shoemaking or weaving. The interior of the penitentiary resembles a
Speaker 1: church with its thirty foot barrel vaulted hallways and tall
Speaker 1: arch windows. In contrast, the exterior is a menacing medieval
Speaker 1: Gothic facade built to intimidate that ironically implies that physical
Speaker 1: punishment took place behind those grim exteriors. Virtually all prisons
Speaker 1: designed in the eighteen hundreds were based on one of
Speaker 1: two systems, New York State's Auburn system or the Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: system embodied by the Eastern State Penitentiary. During the century
Speaker 1: following Eastern States construction, more than three hundred prisons in
Speaker 1: South America, Europe, Russia, China, Japan, and across the British
Speaker 1: Empire were based on its plan. Robert vo of the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Society, who had been extensively involved in the planning
Speaker 1: of the penitentiary, summarized the basic principles of the system. One,
Speaker 1: Prisoners shouldn't be treated, not vengefully, but in ways designed
Speaker 1: to convince them that through hard and selective forms of suffering,
Speaker 1: they could change their lives too. To prevent the prison
Speaker 1: from being a corrupting influence. Solitary confinement of all inmates
Speaker 1: should be practiced. Three. In his seclusion, the offender was
Speaker 1: to have an opportunity to reflect on his transgressions so
Speaker 1: that he might repent for Solitary confinement is a punishing
Speaker 1: discipline because man is by nature a social being. And five.
Speaker 1: Solitary confinement is economical because prisoners do not need long
Speaker 1: periods of time to benefit from the penitential experience, Fewer
Speaker 1: keepers are required, and the costs of clothing are reduced.
Speaker 1: The strong faith in reformation coupled with deterrence is very evident.
Speaker 1: Eastern State Penitentiary was the world's first true penitentiary, a
Speaker 1: prison designed to inspire penitence or true regret in the
Speaker 1: hearts of prisoners. ESP refined the revolutionary system of separate
Speaker 1: incarceration first pioneered at the Walnut Street Jail, which emphasized
Speaker 1: principles of reform rather than punishment. The penitentiary originally consisted
Speaker 1: of seven cell blocks that radiated from a central surveillance rotunda.
Speaker 1: In this concept, each prisoner had their own private cell,
Speaker 1: centrally heated with running water, a flush toilet, and a
Speaker 1: skylight adjacent to Each cell was a private outdoor exercise
Speaker 1: yard contained by a ten foot wall. These blocks may
Speaker 1: represent the first modern building in the United States. The
Speaker 1: physical design of the structure was as much of a
Speaker 1: marvel as were the inward methods. The building has been
Speaker 1: expanded numerous times, but the earliest parts of the construction
Speaker 1: were the first seven blocks. Some interesting context, This modern
Speaker 1: design was particularly impressive for its time. Even the White House,
Speaker 1: with its new occupant Andrew Jackson, had no running water
Speaker 1: and was still heated by coal burning stoves. In eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty six, the initial footprint was finally completed. ESP covered
Speaker 1: an area of eleven acres with state of the art plumbing,
Speaker 1: sewage systems, and four hundred fifty centrally heated cells. The
Speaker 1: whole endeavor had cost nearly seven hundred eighty thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: making it one of the most expensive buildings of its
Speaker 1: day in the United States. According to the Official Data's
Speaker 1: inflation calculator, seven thousand dollars in eighteen thirty six would
Speaker 1: be over twenty three million dollars today. In the eighteen seventies,
Speaker 1: four additional cell box minus the original attached exercise space,
Speaker 1: were added in between those already constructed, so when Eastern
Speaker 1: State originally opened, it was designed to hold two hundred
Speaker 1: fifty prisoners. In eighteen twenty nine, the first prisoners arrived.
Speaker 1: Two years later, in eighteen thirty one, the first female
Speaker 1: prisoners arrived. According to travel writer Quinn Mosby, when the
Speaker 1: earliest prisoners were brought into the facility, they were examined
Speaker 1: and given a number. At that point they lost their humanity.
Speaker 1: The hood was placed over a prisoner's head as guards
Speaker 1: add them to their cell. They were locked in their
Speaker 1: cells for the entire day, fed through a slot in
Speaker 1: the door, and only given a half hour to exercise.
Speaker 1: The institutional dedication to silence was thorough and complete, at
Speaker 1: least in the early years. According to Mosby, the most
Speaker 1: devastating blow was the sound of silence. Prisoners were not
Speaker 1: allowed to speak, sing or hum. This was a place
Speaker 1: of absolute quiet. Some prisoners were gagged with a metal
Speaker 1: tongue clamp if they did not abide by the code
Speaker 1: of silence. There was one death from cholera in eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty two, and in the nineties many inmates died from tuberculosis. Honestly,
Speaker 1: the number of deaths that took place there from suffering
Speaker 1: from chronic and untreated conditions throughout the years is staggering.
Speaker 1: Along those lines, I'm not sure that it's possible to
Speaker 1: overstate just how isolated and bleak early life for ESP
Speaker 1: prisoners truly was. Not only were they hooded during the
Speaker 1: few moments outside of their cells, but they were required
Speaker 1: to be silent for the majority of their days. No
Speaker 1: mail was allowed in or out, and visiting hours were
Speaker 1: non existent. Inside their cells, prisoners only saw light from
Speaker 1: the skylight dubbed the Eye of God talk about a
Speaker 1: looming presents. Each cell was fitted with feed doors so
Speaker 1: prisoners could eat their three square meals a day, and
Speaker 1: total isolation. Guards wore fabric over their shoes so prisoners
Speaker 1: would not hear their footsteps. The punishments put in place
Speaker 1: at ESP were horrifying. There was a water bath. If
Speaker 1: a prisoner transgressed, they were dunked in icy water before
Speaker 1: they were hung on a wall overnight. The frigid air
Speaker 1: would cause skin to ice over before morning, and many
Speaker 1: prisoners didn't make it through. There was also something called
Speaker 1: the mad chair in the early years of ESP. Contemporary
Speaker 1: doctors believed mental illness spread through the body through circulation.
Speaker 1: Following their logic, restricting blood flow would theoretically cure the
Speaker 1: mental anguish, they designed what they called the Mad Chair.
Speaker 1: It was created so inmates could be strapped in so
Speaker 1: tightly it was literally impossible to move a muscle. They
Speaker 1: would be forced to sit in this chair for days
Speaker 1: without food. Sometimes prisoners limbs were amputated after they were
Speaker 1: released from the device because the damage was so extensive.
Speaker 1: I horror dot Com claims that the Mad chair was
Speaker 1: also in the pit known as the Whole, an underground
Speaker 1: cell block beneath Cellblock fourteen, where there was no light
Speaker 1: and inmates were strapped tightly to a chair, restricting any
Speaker 1: movement for days, with periods of starvation. Some prisoners, once
Speaker 1: removed from the restraints, were permanently crippled. There was a
Speaker 1: punishment known as the iron gag for this punishment, and
Speaker 1: inmates hands were tied behind the back and strapped to
Speaker 1: an iron collar in the mouth so that any movement
Speaker 1: caused the tongue to tear and bleed profusely. In the
Speaker 1: earliest days of esp suspicion or rose regarding the treatment
Speaker 1: of prisoners. Among other charges, the most serious were those
Speaker 1: brought against warden Samuel would for cruel and unusual punishment. Specifically,
Speaker 1: Wood was investigated for the untimely death of inmate Matthias McComsey,
Speaker 1: who was placed in an iron gag as punishment for talking.
Speaker 1: Mccomsey's hands were bound behind his back and shackled as
Speaker 1: the gag was forced to be placed over his tongue,
Speaker 1: while the iron bar was attached by chains to the
Speaker 1: shackles on his wrists. One hour later, maccomsey was found
Speaker 1: dead in his cell, and though the penitentiaries doctor classified
Speaker 1: his death as apoplexy or stroke, multiple witnesses contended his
Speaker 1: death was the result of being placed in the gag.
Speaker 1: Despite the investigation by police, Wood was not found guilty
Speaker 1: of cruel and unusual punishment and served as warden there
Speaker 1: until his retirement. Obviously, with conditions such as these, there
Speaker 1: were escaped attempts. In eighteen thirty two, the first prisoner escaped,
Speaker 1: an inmate who served as the warden's waiter, lowered himself
Speaker 1: from the roof of the front building once captured. This
Speaker 1: inmate escaped in the same manner in eighteen thirty seven.
Speaker 1: In July ninety three, Leo Callaghan and five accomplices armed
Speaker 1: with pistols, successfully scaled the east wall after holding up
Speaker 1: a group of unarmed guards. More than one hundred inmates
Speaker 1: escaped from Eastern State during its one hundred forty two
Speaker 1: years of active use, but Callaghan is the only one
Speaker 1: never to be recaptured. All of Callaghan's accomplices were apprehended,
Speaker 1: including one that made it as far as Honolulu. In
Speaker 1: July nineteen thirty four, Williams Spiked Conway and four other
Speaker 1: inmates escaped ESP by swimming half a mile through the sewer.
Speaker 1: Conway and two others were caught within an hour, and
Speaker 1: the other two got electric chair for murder, while Conway
Speaker 1: died by suicide. In nineteen forty three, Victor Babe Andreoli
Speaker 1: escaped from ESP, apparently by hiding in a delivery truck
Speaker 1: that was leaving the prison. Several weeks later, the police
Speaker 1: cut up to Andreoli and Chester, Pennsylvania diner, where he
Speaker 1: was shot dead. In nineteen twelve, prisoners escaped through a
Speaker 1: tunnel designed and built by prison plaster worker Clarence Kleindist.
Speaker 1: The tunnel was ninety seven ft long and probably took
Speaker 1: over a year to dig. The tunnels and let prisoners
Speaker 1: out at fair amount and twenty second. At the time,
Speaker 1: Kleindens had two extra years left on his sentence, but
Speaker 1: received ten more years once he was caught. Six of
Speaker 1: the group were captured immediately, with one being shot in
Speaker 1: the process. Five of them were caught while in the tunnel.
Speaker 1: Another five are grabbed while crawling out. After all but
Speaker 1: one was recovered and returned to ESP they were put
Speaker 1: in solitary confinement in the hole and given only bread
Speaker 1: and water and doctor visits each day. They stayed there,
Speaker 1: one in each space, not collectively, for thirty days at
Speaker 1: the doctor's judgment. As time went on, Eastern State was evolving.
Speaker 1: Warden Michael Cassidy added the first additional cellblox in the
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies and eighteen nineties. These late Victorian blocks weren't
Speaker 1: terribly different from the first iteration, but they did not
Speaker 1: include an attached exercise yard. Prisoners were still hooded for transportation,
Speaker 1: but they were at least given eye holes. During this period.
Speaker 1: Instead of exercising in separate spaces, they did so in community,
Speaker 1: and by the eighteen nineties about half of all prisoners
Speaker 1: had to sellmate. By nineteen twelve, a prisoner newspaper, The Umpire,
Speaker 1: ran a monthly roster of intra penitentiary baseball league scores.
Speaker 1: The separation of prisoners was eventually amended, and ESP became
Speaker 1: a more standard prison known then as the New York System,
Speaker 1: in which inmates shared cells and were permitted to communicate.
Speaker 1: In January, inmates were finally allowed to eat together. Table
Speaker 1: cloths were provided on Sundays and holidays, and the holiday
Speaker 1: decorations were described as a morale building factor. The this
Speaker 1: new system, the New York or Auburn system, was one
Speaker 1: of harsh punishment, and it soon took precedence over the
Speaker 1: repentant model of ESP. The Auburn model construed incarceration is
Speaker 1: punishment and terror in order to break the spirit of
Speaker 1: the recalcitrant individual, close surveillance and corporal punishment would force
Speaker 1: the prisoner to conform to the desired readiness and installation
Speaker 1: of moral values. In nine the penitentiary administration produced a
Speaker 1: silent movie to celebrate the building's centennial. The film focuses
Speaker 1: on the recent changes made to the building. It shows
Speaker 1: new factory style weaving shops, the commercial grade bakery and
Speaker 1: kitchen staff by dozens of prisoners. Twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 1: and new guard towers with searchlights and sirens. And how
Speaker 1: about some of the more famous prisoners that were in
Speaker 1: esp A one of a kind prisoner was brought in
Speaker 1: August of nineteen twenty four, Pep the cat murdering Dog,
Speaker 1: had his mug shot taken and was assigned prison Nursey
Speaker 1: two five nine. Pep allegedly murdered the governor's wife's cat. However,
Speaker 1: the reason for PEPs incarceration remains the subject of some debate.
Speaker 1: A newspaper article reported that the governor donated his own
Speaker 1: dog to the prison to increase inmate morale. In nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty four, a notorious criminal and perhaps well liked prisoner died. Morris.
Speaker 1: The Rabbi Bolber was at EESP serving a life sentence
Speaker 1: as a member of an arsenic murder ring located in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia called the Veterans Witch doctor and compounder of Charms.
Speaker 1: Bulber was one of the leaders of the group. They
Speaker 1: appealed to women who are willing to murder husbands in
Speaker 1: order to collect on their husband's insurance policies. Between nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty nine and nineteen thirty, a Mr Alphonse Campone spent
Speaker 1: eight months in a relatively luxurious cell. An article in
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Public Jer describes Capone's cell. The whole room
Speaker 1: was suffused in the glow of a desk lamp, which
Speaker 1: stood on a polished desk. On the once grim walls
Speaker 1: of the penal chamber hung tasteful paintings, and the strains
Speaker 1: of a waltz were being omitted by a powerful cabinet
Speaker 1: radio receiver of handsome design and fine finish. At this time,
Speaker 1: Capone was worth over forty million dollars approximately five hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars by today's standards, and had associations
Speaker 1: with over seven hundred murders he could afford to call
Speaker 1: in a few favors. I think Capone also controlled the
Speaker 1: sale of liquor to over ten thousand speakeasies. While in
Speaker 1: his relatively luxurious cell, though al Capone was apparently plagued
Speaker 1: by a spirit named Jimmy. He would let out blood
Speaker 1: curdling streams in the darkness, begging for Jimmy to leave
Speaker 1: him alone. Many people believe Jimmy may have been the
Speaker 1: spirit of Jimmy Clark, one of the men killed by
Speaker 1: Capone's execution orders. In the Saint Valentine's massacre. Even after
Speaker 1: his release from ESP, Capone was still hounded by this spirit.
Speaker 1: So out of desperation, Capone even hired a medium, but
Speaker 1: that didn't seem to work. Now, some scholars and writers
Speaker 1: make the connection to late stage syphilis, when the disease
Speaker 1: affects the brain and can lead to hallucinations and insanity.
Speaker 1: After his imprisonment, Capone spent his days at home in
Speaker 1: pajamas and having imaginary conversations with long dead colleagues or
Speaker 1: enemies in his backyard delusions. The entire family went along with.
Speaker 1: At age forty eight, Capone died on January seven of
Speaker 1: a stroke. Unrest and division was rampant at ESP over
Speaker 1: the years. In nineteen thirty three, angry inmates set fires
Speaker 1: to their cells and destroyed workshops in a riot. There
Speaker 1: was another riot the following year. Due to low wages,
Speaker 1: inmates short circuited electrical outlets and started fires and caused
Speaker 1: other disturbances. Warden Smith put down the riot with a
Speaker 1: wrong show of force. In nineteen sixty one, an inmate
Speaker 1: trick to guard into opening the cell of another inmate.
Speaker 1: With the cells opened, the inmates overpowered the guard and
Speaker 1: began the largest riot in the prison's history. Several hours later,
Speaker 1: a large force of police, guards and state troopers reclaimed
Speaker 1: the prison. The riot fuel discussions to close Eastern State.
Speaker 1: Other factors contributed to the desire to close ESP. Changing
Speaker 1: social values and incarceration practices factored in, as did more
Speaker 1: pragmatic concerns. At that point, the aged building had so
Speaker 1: many electrical and mechanical problems it was too expensive to restore.
Speaker 1: After closing in nineteen seventy one, and before preservation efforts
Speaker 1: began in nineteen ninety one, Eastern State was left to vandals,
Speaker 1: nature and stray cats in ESP once again opened its doors,
Speaker 1: but this time as a museum, so Eastern State Pen
Speaker 1: only host tourists now and has been designated a National
Speaker 1: History or Landmark since nineteen sixty five. With all of that,
Speaker 1: it's no wonder that ESP is thought to be haunted.
Speaker 1: It is reputed to be one of the most studied
Speaker 1: sites in the United States for paranormal activity, and it
Speaker 1: is the frequent star of TV programming focusing on haunted places.
Speaker 1: Tourists and employees alike have reported weeping, moaning, and whispering
Speaker 1: being heard on the cell blocks and visual sites of
Speaker 1: apparitions are common. Visitors to ESP have reported seeing the
Speaker 1: ghost of Joseph Taylor. Taylor bludgend and overseer named Michael
Speaker 1: Durant to death in four and after the horrific crime,
Speaker 1: Taylor calmly re entered his cell and went to sleep.
Speaker 1: The apparition of a mysterious woman is spotted so often
Speaker 1: that employees have named her the soap Lady. She sits
Speaker 1: in the last cell on the second floor, wearing white.
Speaker 1: The second floor held the woman's cell block when the
Speaker 1: prison was operational. People have reported seeing visions of ghostly
Speaker 1: faces in block four, and one of the most legendary
Speaker 1: tales of Block four comes from Gary Johnson, who helps
Speaker 1: maintain the crumbling old locks at the prison in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties. He had just opened an old lock
Speaker 1: in cell block four when he says a four script
Speaker 1: him so tightly that he was unable to move. He
Speaker 1: described a negative, horrible energy that exploded out of the cell.
Speaker 1: He said tormented faces appeared on the cell walls and
Speaker 1: that one form in particular beckoned to him. Guests claim
Speaker 1: to get a glimpse of a man standing in a
Speaker 1: guard tower on the property. However, there's no way to
Speaker 1: physically get to the top of the tower today. The
Speaker 1: brickstairs crumbled away many years ago. Those stories just scratched
Speaker 1: the surface of what happens that he has paid. So,
Speaker 1: I have a friend here, Mr. Aaron Sager's who is
Speaker 1: a paranormal researcher and has worked closely with Eastern State
Speaker 1: Penitentiary for years, and he's going to give us some
Speaker 1: insight on common reports and what people think is really
Speaker 1: going on inside those haunted, crumbling cell blocks. Aaron singers everyone,
Speaker 1: He said, this is exciting. You know. Actually, every time
Speaker 1: I think of Eastern State Penitentiary, I think of you
Speaker 1: because I feel like you're there all the time. Why
Speaker 1: is that Eastern State Penitentiary is my spooky home away
Speaker 1: from home. I have spent a lot of time there,
Speaker 1: and they have brought me out many times to talk
Speaker 1: about the history but also the paranormal tales that have
Speaker 1: emerged from there. But on a personal level, it was
Speaker 1: sort of ground zero for me entering the paranormal. On
Speaker 1: a professional level, I had an experience there. I have
Speaker 1: always been fascinated by the paranormal. I've always been drawn
Speaker 1: in by high strangeness, but it was really Eastern State
Speaker 1: that I had an experience that was a bit of
Speaker 1: a paradigm shift and sent me on a path. Well,
Speaker 1: tell us what that was, Okay, I guess, I will.
Speaker 1: I guess. That's sort of the point of kind of
Speaker 1: intro you need to tell us. Well, I was there
Speaker 1: as a journalist. That's that's my origin story. My career
Speaker 1: is as a journalist, and I still work in that world.
Speaker 1: And I wasn't there looking for ghosts. I was there
Speaker 1: exploring the penitentiary. I was there alone, and I was
Speaker 1: walking down. As Amy mentioned, cell block four has quite
Speaker 1: the notorious reputation. And I was walking down this cell block,
Speaker 1: and it was at night, and you know that moment
Speaker 1: where you don't know why you look into a certain
Speaker 1: room or why you are drawn to a certain spot.
Speaker 1: I don't know what made me stop in front of
Speaker 1: this one particular cell block, but I look in and
Speaker 1: at the back of this cell I see what we
Speaker 1: call a shadow figure, and it was very clear. I
Speaker 1: could clearly see this distinct form and it was pacing
Speaker 1: back and fourth, back and fourth in the far back
Speaker 1: part of this cell. Now, I can't enter this cell
Speaker 1: because there is a bar that prevents you from going
Speaker 1: in there. But as I'm watching this figure go back
Speaker 1: and forth, paced back and forth, I have this moment
Speaker 1: of I guess I'm gonna talk to it. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people that have had experiences they
Speaker 1: have this moment of like, I'm really just talking to myself,
Speaker 1: I'm crazy or whatever. Book I'm gonna do it. And
Speaker 1: that's what I had. I said, Okay, if something's back there,
Speaker 1: come closer, pacing back and forth, back and for back
Speaker 1: and stop, and this form rushes me. My entire field
Speaker 1: of vision goes entirely black. It's gone. And I leaped
Speaker 1: back and release if you choice expletives, and I pause
Speaker 1: and again I see this thing has now retreated to
Speaker 1: the far back of the cell and has continued pacing
Speaker 1: back and fourth. And this is this is this moment
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I think I just saw a ghost,
Speaker 1: and yet I didn't say anything. I kind of kept
Speaker 1: it to myself, and time passes and someone else is
Speaker 1: in this area and I happened to be in the
Speaker 1: area at the same time. They're like, it looks like
Speaker 1: there's something pacing back and forth in the back of
Speaker 1: that cell and this was this independent confirmation that they
Speaker 1: didn't know about, and to me, that validated the experience.
Speaker 1: And then time goes on and I start doing events there,
Speaker 1: paranormal events. I joined you, Amy, I joined a lot
Speaker 1: of our our friends and colleagues. And I don't tell
Speaker 1: people always this story. Although it's ruined now that we're
Speaker 1: doing this podcast. Everyone knows it, but I don't always
Speaker 1: reveal that story, but I always wait until someone kind
Speaker 1: of picks up on it, and they typically do. And
Speaker 1: I would say Cell Block four is really one of
Speaker 1: those locations that has a feeling to it, but it's
Speaker 1: also special for me and and honestly, all throughout Eastern State,
Speaker 1: I've had so many it seems like every time I
Speaker 1: go there, something weird happens and it's something different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have not been there. The last time
Speaker 1: I was there, I was quite pregnant, so it's been
Speaker 1: a long time. But only I would go hunting in
Speaker 1: the old jail while I'm pregnant. But you know, do
Speaker 1: you recall that you and I had an experience there? Okay,
Speaker 1: So I had so many experience I knew as you
Speaker 1: were telling your story, I feel like you and I
Speaker 1: saw some sort of shadow or something. I remember distinctly
Speaker 1: using the laser grid there for the first time, like
Speaker 1: that was one of the first places that I For
Speaker 1: those that don't know, the laser grid is basically just
Speaker 1: this little pen that shoots out a grid of lasers,
Speaker 1: so a laser grid, and it makes it easier to
Speaker 1: see shadow figures in theory. And so I don't know
Speaker 1: if this was the experience, but I remember shiny. It
Speaker 1: might have been cellblock for I'm always familiar with all
Speaker 1: the cellblocks it's been so long. They all look very
Speaker 1: spooky and very similar when you get in there. But
Speaker 1: I remember shining it down into a lower level and
Speaker 1: watching a shadow walk in and out of the laser
Speaker 1: grid from above. So that was what I remember being
Speaker 1: a pretty wild experience there. This was I leave Cell
Speaker 1: Block twelve or it was that part of the penitentiary,
Speaker 1: and there was that moment. But the thing that was
Speaker 1: even weirder for me is we were yes pointing this
Speaker 1: laser gride down because there are certain levels due to
Speaker 1: the the structure, it's it's unsafe in places. We were
Speaker 1: pointing down in a lower level that we could not access.
Speaker 1: So there was this shadow form. But beyond that there
Speaker 1: was this missed does not even encapsulate. I remember this, Yes,
Speaker 1: it almost had a tangibility and it was in a
Speaker 1: cell like it was. I remember thinking because I was
Speaker 1: like is this dust? Like what is it? And I
Speaker 1: remember distinctly, Okay, now I remember, I just wasn't sure
Speaker 1: if that was you that I was. It was thick
Speaker 1: and amorphous, and the light the laser instead of you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've been too many a laser light shows. It
Speaker 1: was a fan of Pink Floyd at the observatory in
Speaker 1: or Lande I grew up. It doesn't it doesn't look
Speaker 1: like miss that's going or a light laser like that's
Speaker 1: going through miss. Instead, it almost absorbed. Yes, it enveloped it.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing that happens with the shadow figures
Speaker 1: when it hits a shadow figure, like a legit shadow figure.
Speaker 1: If if you walk in front of a laser grid,
Speaker 1: it just looks like you have a laser on you,
Speaker 1: But when it hits like a shadow or something, it
Speaker 1: just disappears. It's very weird, Like I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: I have no explanation for it. There's something about that location.
Speaker 1: I think part of it. Honestly, we have been to
Speaker 1: a lot of jails, asylums, hospitals, you know, all cheery places.
Speaker 1: There's something about Eastern State. I think the fact that
Speaker 1: it was left to just sit and be overtaken for
Speaker 1: twenty years, I think it created something of a paranormal
Speaker 1: crop bid, like a stew a gumbo was like just
Speaker 1: just kind of percolating in there where it was almost
Speaker 1: like the activity was left to kind of build up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's I find Eastern State to be incredibly beautiful. They
Speaker 1: it was the first place that I heard the term
Speaker 1: arrested decay, which meaning that they basically they don't restore
Speaker 1: it any further and they don't let it deteriorate any further.
Speaker 1: And so it's just they're like they clean out certain
Speaker 1: areas and and try to kind of, you know, build
Speaker 1: them back up so we can safely visit them. But
Speaker 1: there are places you go that have just been completely
Speaker 1: overtaken by nature, and I don't know what that does
Speaker 1: to the energy there. And I honestly, until I did
Speaker 1: this podcast and was doing all the research for it,
Speaker 1: I guess I did not understand the conditions that were
Speaker 1: in that building. I thought of it as kind of
Speaker 1: a traditional prison, whatever that may be. But I had
Speaker 1: no idea that the whole basis of silence, which sounds
Speaker 1: like the creepiest, weirdest punishment to me, that they were
Speaker 1: made to be silent at all times. Yes, and the
Speaker 1: violence that the locations are the goo stories began in
Speaker 1: nineteen not began, but there are documented reports of ghost
Speaker 1: stories at the Eastern State in nineteen and the nineteen forties,
Speaker 1: early nineties, and the there was such violence there. There
Speaker 1: were riots, there was, but there was also for instance,
Speaker 1: there was one doctor that worked there that was said
Speaker 1: to be carrying just basically a bucket of body parts
Speaker 1: throughout the halls because he was given free reign to
Speaker 1: conducts unauthorized autopsies. There was one young woman that came
Speaker 1: to collect the body of her father who had died,
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, he's not ready yet. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: he's dead. Why isn't he ready. When she does finally
Speaker 1: retrieve this body, he has an autopsy scar around the
Speaker 1: crown of his head, and basically this doctor just plucked
Speaker 1: out the brain and did what he will with it.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of tales of that, and people
Speaker 1: that were obviously suffering from mental illness. At that time,
Speaker 1: it wasn't really talked about, but there was one inmate
Speaker 1: who was incredibly emaciated and couldn't stand up and was
Speaker 1: in his cell, And at one point a judge became
Speaker 1: involved because there were investigations into the treatment there, and
Speaker 1: the judges like, well, why is this guy like this?
Speaker 1: And I believe one of the guard's response was is
Speaker 1: just like everyone else, he just really wants attention. This
Speaker 1: total dismissal of some of these things. And now since
Speaker 1: it has been a while since you've been there, what
Speaker 1: they do is they do document the prison system and
Speaker 1: the experience of not just Eastern State, but the prison
Speaker 1: system correctional system throughout the world. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that they do is because this this prison closed
Speaker 1: down in the seventies, there are a lot of inmates
Speaker 1: that are alive and they have collected audio, they have
Speaker 1: shown videos, and so all day long, while this prison
Speaker 1: is operating as a landmark that you can tour, you
Speaker 1: are hearing the voices and the accounts of all of
Speaker 1: this history. It's like having a basically a trigger object
Speaker 1: just going constantly, wow, that's so interesting. What I left
Speaker 1: about the folks there is that they're very open about
Speaker 1: their ghosts. They're very open about their hauntings. They're obviously
Speaker 1: very open about their history. It's it is the kind
Speaker 1: of epitome of turning a bad situation into something positive.
Speaker 1: Like they do do so much with their nonprofit and everything.
Speaker 1: But having been there lately, like, how how are the
Speaker 1: haunts going, Like is it any more active any less?
Speaker 1: Or yes? I think that much like the rest of
Speaker 1: the world, you know, following will still enduring this pandemic.
Speaker 1: It has altered some things there, And I have spoken
Speaker 1: to people at Eastern State that's say it's almost like
Speaker 1: the ghosts are hungry for the attention and that they
Speaker 1: want that acknowledgement and and for a place that saw
Speaker 1: such suffering. If there are, if there are presences there
Speaker 1: that continue to linger, I think maybe people coming and
Speaker 1: visiting a place that does frankly discussed the history, maybe
Speaker 1: if something is lingering there, it sees these tourists, it
Speaker 1: sees the museum component as a way of having their
Speaker 1: story told. Yeah, I mean I've always felt like so
Speaker 1: whenever we investigate prisons, I'm always adamant that we don't
Speaker 1: go in with judgment I think it's really easy for
Speaker 1: people to assume that everyone they're talking to in a
Speaker 1: in a jail was a bad person in some way.
Speaker 1: But you know, I always say, with whole judgment, you
Speaker 1: don't know their story, especially if place like Eastern State
Speaker 1: being an operation for so long, you have no idea
Speaker 1: how or why they ended up there, And so I
Speaker 1: think that that understanding is really important as you investigate there.
Speaker 1: So have you you investigated there a lot? Do you
Speaker 1: think that's the way to go about it? Do you
Speaker 1: think they respond to that kind of communication or I
Speaker 1: think that will consider that. I think the youngest inmate
Speaker 1: there was an eleven year old girl. So you cannot
Speaker 1: look at that and say, oh, that was a bad person.
Speaker 1: You know. Yes, first off, I think if if you're
Speaker 1: going to enter any location, yes, you should think about
Speaker 1: if there are people lingering in a different form there,
Speaker 1: they were people, they were they so treat them with respect.
Speaker 1: So yes, I do say, go about things with a
Speaker 1: respectful outlook and ask questions. You know, how did you
Speaker 1: pass the time? What were your hobbies in this while
Speaker 1: you were stuck here? Or what did you learn during
Speaker 1: your time here? I think those are all good and
Speaker 1: I also I do wonder for some of the people
Speaker 1: that did commit horrible acts that were legitimately sentenced there,
Speaker 1: maybe they're going through their own process in the afterlife
Speaker 1: where they are processing their own guilt, their own regrets,
Speaker 1: their own grief. Maybe they are also going through something
Speaker 1: that they have to get through while they are there still. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean I've wondered that because you have that
Speaker 1: kind of classic unfinished business, which is why I think
Speaker 1: a lot of spirits linger, and in a place like that,
Speaker 1: I could see this kind of self imposed sentence happening
Speaker 1: where people feel like they don't deserve to move on
Speaker 1: from there. I mean I'm completely speculating, of course, but
Speaker 1: just having investigated many prisons, I've just I've I've felt
Speaker 1: that in a way and gotten evidence to indicate that.
Speaker 1: I think there's so many potentials there. But yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: And I almost wonder if, of course, we talked about
Speaker 1: things like reincarnation and that is a way of like
Speaker 1: processing through your cast deeds as you move on, Well,
Speaker 1: what if there's this other aspect where maybe these ghosts
Speaker 1: which is a very simplistic word, but maybe maybe they're afterlife,
Speaker 1: is this prolonged therapy session where they're having to go
Speaker 1: through everything before they feel like they can let go
Speaker 1: or move on or whatever it is that they do. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, so now Eastern State is open again for tours, right,
Speaker 1: it is okay, and so people can go there, they
Speaker 1: can visit. Are they doing investigations at all that you
Speaker 1: know of or I don't know if they've begun the
Speaker 1: investigations yet because I have to imagine that involves a
Speaker 1: lot of protocols and what safety protocols. But if they
Speaker 1: are and if they begin again, I'm ready to be
Speaker 1: back in line to do it again. I love the place.
Speaker 1: I find it hunting, I find it beautiful, and I
Speaker 1: definitely think for any paranormal investigator out there, anyone that
Speaker 1: wants to pursue it is a great location to go to.
Speaker 1: That is awesome. Well, thank you Mr Sagers for joining
Speaker 1: me on our first ever live episode of Haunted Road
Speaker 1: and everyone here. I really appreciate you taking the time
Speaker 1: and for everybody listening. You can join us at places
Speaker 1: like this. This is Strange Escapes, my company. You can
Speaker 1: check it out at Strange dash escapes dot com. Kindred
Speaker 1: Spirits from years December on Discovery Plus and Travel Channel
Speaker 1: and anything else you want to shout out. Mr Sagers. Yeah, well, Amy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me here at the
Speaker 1: Mount Washington and on the live show. It is an honor.
Speaker 1: And for anyone that wants to follow my work, you
Speaker 1: can see me on Paranormal Call on Camera on Travel
Speaker 1: Channel and Discovery Plus. You can see me on the
Speaker 1: Ripley's Believe It or Not Ripley's Road Trip YouTube series
Speaker 1: that's more of an oddity show rather than a paranormal one.
Speaker 1: And you can also just say hi to me across
Speaker 1: social media at Aaron Sagers or if you see me
Speaker 1: in person, don't make it weird, but come up and
Speaker 1: say hi in person. Well you guys, I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed this deep dive into Eastern State. To me, it's
Speaker 1: just a fascinating bit of history. I had no idea
Speaker 1: actually what went on within those walls, and strangely now
Speaker 1: I'm feeling very drawn to getting back there, so I
Speaker 1: can't wait to visit again. Thank you so much everyone,
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I'm Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road.
Speaker 1: Haunted Road is a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written
Speaker 1: and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky,
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by
Speaker 1: rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the
Speaker 1: show's researcher. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.