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Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind, we have

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Speaker 1: an episode here for you, Todavid. Originally published eight two,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. It is quator Mass in the Pit

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Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty seven. This is a This is a classic.

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Speaker 1: This one is highly regarded, really a lot of fun,

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Speaker 1: some great actors in it, and a really mind bending plot.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's dive right into the episode.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House

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Speaker 3: Cinema we're going to be talking about the nineteen sixty

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Speaker 3: seven British sci fi horror film quator Mass and the Pit,

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Speaker 3: starring Andrew Keer, Barbara Shelley, James Donald and Julian Glover.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to say right at the top, as always,

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Speaker 3: we will get into some pretty granular detail about the plot.

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Speaker 3: We always do that in these episodes, and today's movie

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Speaker 3: in particular is one that has some great mysteries and

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Speaker 3: surprises throughout, So if you would like to watch it

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Speaker 3: without any spoilers, I think this is a good candidate

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Speaker 3: for that. You should pause here and check the movie

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Speaker 3: out first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, This is one that I was fortunate enough

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Speaker 1: to go into cold back when I think it was

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Speaker 1: in college. I think I caught it on American Movie Classics,

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Speaker 1: which also showed Hammer Horrors, I FI films.

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Speaker 3: Yea y American.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't know anything about it going into it

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Speaker 1: and was just, you know, thoroughly pleased with where the

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Speaker 1: movie took me.

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Speaker 3: Just recently, we've had several listeners suggest that we cover

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Speaker 3: various quator Mass films. I think in the last Listener

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Speaker 3: Mail episode we had somebody saying that they wanted us

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Speaker 3: to do quator Mass too, and in true weird house fashion,

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Speaker 3: we were approaching them out of order. From what I

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Speaker 3: can tell, this is the third feature film in the

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Speaker 3: quater Mass series. It's a sequel to the quator Mass

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Speaker 3: Experiment from nineteen fifty five and quator Mass two from

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Speaker 3: fifty seven. Is that also your understanding, Rob?

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Speaker 1: Correct? Though, though it's a little weird with the quater

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Speaker 1: Mass films because the quater Mass films were all remakes

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Speaker 1: of the original quator Mass TV program, So you had

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Speaker 1: fifty three's the quater Mass Experiment remade as the film

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Speaker 1: of the same name in fifty five, and then TV's

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Speaker 1: quator Mass two remade as a film in fifty seven.

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Speaker 1: And indeed quator Mass in the Pit was also a

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Speaker 1: tea And when I say TV, it's not quite a

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Speaker 1: TV show, more of like a limited TV mini series,

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Speaker 1: sort of a situation. Quat Mass in the Pit ran

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Speaker 1: on TV fifty eight through fifty nine and then was

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Speaker 1: remade as Today's nineteen sixty seven film and was.

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Speaker 3: All of this originally written by Nigel Neil.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, he was the creator of the character. He

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Speaker 1: wrote all the screenplays for the TV series and then

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Speaker 1: the films that were adapted from them. Here there was

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Speaker 1: also a nineteen seventy nine quator Mass four part TV

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Speaker 1: series that was recut into the film The Quator Mass

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Speaker 1: Conclusion the same year. Much later on, in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five, Jason Fleming starting a live TV remake of

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Speaker 1: the original series alongside David Tennant and Mark Gatis, though

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Speaker 1: I don't think Neil had anything to do with that

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Speaker 1: aside from just being credited as the creator, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they adapted it from his original screenplay.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen that from the words you just said,

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Speaker 3: it sounds like a more serious version of Doctor Who. Energy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one way to sort of look at quator

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Speaker 1: Mass here, and I'm to understand that the original quator

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Speaker 1: Mass TV shows had very much had Doctor Who production values.

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Speaker 1: The movie you we're watching here today is definitely a

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Speaker 1: step up from that, though also not quite on the

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Speaker 1: same level as like some of your bigger special effects

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Speaker 1: pictures of the time period. Those we'll discuss. I think

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Speaker 1: it does quite well in many respects, and in terms

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Speaker 1: of comparing it to Doctor Who. I mean, there's ultimately

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Speaker 1: a lot of shared DNA whenever you look at at

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Speaker 1: any kind of like British film or TV project, people

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Speaker 1: are going to have involvement with the Doctor Who franchise

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Speaker 1: over the many decades. Aside from that, I would say

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot to compare Doctor Who to quator

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Speaker 1: Mass because Doctor Who, of course, is a lot wilder

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Speaker 1: in its sci fi. It's more like out there in

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Speaker 1: time and space. Quator Mass is seems to be more

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Speaker 1: concerned with the immediate situation here on Earth and various

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Speaker 1: cosmic threats that emerge.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. I think Doctor Who is more fantastical

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Speaker 3: and more humorous. So, of course Doctor Who does go

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Speaker 3: to some dark places, but it generally has a lot

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Speaker 3: more silliness and humor levined throughout. Whereas the impression I

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Speaker 3: get about quator Mass, certainly from this film and from

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Speaker 3: what I know of the other ones though I haven't

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Speaker 3: seen them yet, is that it's more grounded, more serious,

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Speaker 3: a little bit more hard science fiction, though it does

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Speaker 3: go to some quite silly places in terms of like

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Speaker 3: what they thought you could do with technology in this

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Speaker 3: movie and stuff. I love the machine that you put

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Speaker 3: a helmet on your head and it projects your thoughts

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Speaker 3: on a TV screen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, definitely definitely strong sci fi here, and is

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Speaker 1: I believe Joe Dante pointed out in a little extra

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Speaker 1: he did for the Screen Factory Blu Ray for this film,

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Speaker 1: this film has a lot in common with some of

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Speaker 1: It has a lot of the intellectual edge that you

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Speaker 1: find in various bits of sci fi literature, for example

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Speaker 1: Arthur C. Clark's Childhood's End and so forth, And these

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Speaker 1: of course are ideas that have been it ended up

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Speaker 1: being used multiple times over the decades in sci fi

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Speaker 1: film and sci fi storytelling, but earlier on they were

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Speaker 1: a lot more fresh.

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Speaker 3: It really is that kind of science fiction that is

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Speaker 3: about ideas. Yes, I feel like you can really see

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Speaker 3: the influence of this movie on other horror films that

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Speaker 3: would come later now. And it's funny because, again with

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Speaker 3: the theme of seeing things out of order, I think

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Speaker 3: I saw more of the movies that were influenced by

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Speaker 3: this movie before I saw it itself. For example, I

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Speaker 3: can absolutely see a lot of quat Mass in the

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Speaker 3: Pit in John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness, that atmospheric feeling

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Speaker 3: of doom, something about the ancient past that is now

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Speaker 3: reaching out to us in threatening ways and sort of

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Speaker 3: suggesting that our understanding of what we are in our

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Speaker 3: place in the cosmos might be totally wrong. And also

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Speaker 3: this inventive braiding of scientific themes, like hard science themes

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Speaker 3: with themes of supernatural occultism. So like quator Mass in

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Speaker 3: the Pit is a movie that proposes alternative theories of

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Speaker 3: human origins. It has alien invasions, so that's the stuff

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Speaker 3: often of science fiction, but it's also got a common

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Speaker 3: explanation for the existence of telekinesis, haunted houses, and belief

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Speaker 3: in satan.

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Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, yeah, And yet it does such a

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Speaker 1: fine job with all of this. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: it's just grabbing things and throwing them at the wall

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Speaker 1: to see what sticks. It's a film that does an

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Speaker 1: absolutely fantastic job of laying out a believable procedural response

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Speaker 1: to an abnormal and increasingly otherworldly invent It's pretty straight laced,

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Speaker 1: its cerebral sci fi horror film with I think fantastic

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Speaker 1: shades of cosmic horror as you were alluding to. You know, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: the ideas that are discovered are you know, they're tantalizing,

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Speaker 1: but they completely turn the characters understanding of humanity's placing

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Speaker 1: the cosmosci its head.

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Speaker 3: Should we listen to a little bit of trailer audio?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's listen. I think this is going to be

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Speaker 1: from the UK trailer, but the US trailer was released

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Speaker 1: in the US as part of like a double feature

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Speaker 1: with the title five Million Years to Earth. That one

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Speaker 1: does have a fun beginning where it says, the scenes

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Speaker 1: you were about to see are more incredible than anything

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Speaker 1: today's science or fiction ever imagined. But well, let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's hear a little bit from the UK trip.

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Speaker 4: Who are they running from?

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Speaker 3: What have they seen?

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Speaker 4: Whom do they fear. There are five million answers to

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Speaker 4: these questions, and every one of them is a shaker.

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Speaker 4: Terror five million years old spills into our time to

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Speaker 4: make two worlds collide. What is happening here and now

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Speaker 4: can affect the next five million years. They feel it,

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Speaker 4: they see it. The archaeologist who digs back into the

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Speaker 4: past to on earth more horror than the human mind

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Speaker 4: can compare quait a mess a scientist who come face

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Speaker 4: to face with five million years of terror. It's forever.

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Speaker 4: She's the one.

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Speaker 3: You got here quick.

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Speaker 4: She can see into the pit and knows that terrifying truth.

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Speaker 4: He can see into the pit, but he will not

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Speaker 4: believe what he sees. They kill me.

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Speaker 3: What were.

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Speaker 4: You saw?

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Speaker 3: The creatures were alive, live.

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Speaker 4: You descend into the pit of hell as you share

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Speaker 4: their horror. Listen, I'm advising you all to leave. That

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Speaker 4: may be great dangers.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, if you would like to watch quator

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Speaker 1: mass in the Pit aka five million years to Earth yourself,

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Speaker 1: This one is, as far as I can tell, currently

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Speaker 1: difficult or impossible to stream in the US, but is

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Speaker 1: available in the UK for streaming either way. The physical

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Speaker 1: Blu ray from Screen Factory is widely available and is

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Speaker 1: a terrific presentation of the film with loads of insightful extras. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I believe you own this disc and this is the

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Speaker 1: one that I rin in from Atlanta's own video drum.

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Speaker 3: I've got the disc. Yeah, and it's packed with extra stuff.

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Speaker 3: I really wanted to get into a bunch of the

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Speaker 3: commentaries and docks and stuff before today, but ended up

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Speaker 3: not having time this week. Sometimes it just works out

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Speaker 3: like that. But yeah, it looks like it's just just

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Speaker 3: packed with great stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't have time to go through all of

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Speaker 1: it either. But there's a little bit with Joe Dante,

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Speaker 1: and there's a great interview view from several years back

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Speaker 1: with Julian Glover. He has a lot of cool little

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Speaker 1: insights about his experiences with the film and the various

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Speaker 1: people he worked with, including a story about how he

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Speaker 1: grew a mustache for this character. Yes, but the middle

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Speaker 1: part of his mustache was like too blonde and so

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Speaker 1: they kept having to diet to make it as dark

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Speaker 1: as the rest of the mustache. Huh. And then when

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Speaker 1: they were filming, he's sweat and the dye would like

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Speaker 1: drip down and dribble into his mouth and he didn't

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Speaker 1: like that. So like, over the course of a weekend,

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Speaker 1: he was like, I'm going to take care of this myself,

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Speaker 1: and he got like permanent dye and died the center

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Speaker 1: part of his mustache. But then it was way darker

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Speaker 1: than the rest of his mustache and made him look

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Speaker 1: like he had a Hitler mustache. Oh no, And so

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Speaker 1: they like he had to come in like on Monday

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Speaker 1: or whenever when the shoe was resuming and just had

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Speaker 1: to apologize to the hair and makeup people. Was like, sorry,

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Speaker 1: mess it all up, You're gonna have to fix me again.

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Speaker 1: So then they had to like lighten that part of

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Speaker 1: the mustache for the remainder of the shoot.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's got to be one of the worst self

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Speaker 3: grooming mishap stories I've ever heard. Accidental Hitler mustache.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love little tidduts like that from that

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Speaker 1: you get in these extras. All right, well, let's get

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Speaker 1: into the connections on this one. We'll start at the

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Speaker 1: top with the director. It's Roy Ward Baker who lived

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen through twenty ten, British director who made a

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Speaker 1: number of films in his native UK as well as

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Speaker 1: in the US. These include nineteen fifty threes Inferno. That's

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Speaker 1: a three D film, nineteen fifty Eight's a Night to Remember,

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Speaker 1: that's a Titanic movie. And then he did several Hammer pictures,

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Speaker 1: and this is generally held to be the best picture

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Speaker 1: he did for Hammer.

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Speaker 3: Oh have we not mentioned already that this is a

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Speaker 3: Hammer film?

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Speaker 1: I can't remember if we said it on MIC or not,

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Speaker 1: but yes, this is definitely a Hammer picture. Though this

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Speaker 1: is I guess a good place to remind everyone that

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Speaker 1: we have lots of different sorts of Hammer pictures. They're

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Speaker 1: not all horror, and they're not all Gothic carr they're

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Speaker 1: not all vampire pictures, even though those are some of

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Speaker 1: the most famous and the most beloved Hammer pictures.

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Speaker 3: I love a lot of Hammer movies. We've covered some

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Speaker 3: Hammer movies on Weird House before Love Seeing, you know,

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Speaker 3: Peter Cushing as van Helsing, Christopher Lee as Dracul, all

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Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. I love the sort of trashier

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Speaker 3: ones they started making in the seventies. That's good too,

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Speaker 3: I would say, I I think this might be, just

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Speaker 3: in a straightforward way, the best Hammer film I have seen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's generally held to be the best one

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Speaker 1: he directed, that's for sure, and yeah, it could be,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's very reasonable to put it at

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Speaker 1: least in consideration for best Hammer picture. It's just so solid.

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Speaker 1: The other ones that Baker did. Let's see, we have

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine's Moon zero two, which MST three K

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Speaker 1: fans know this one. It is a fun mod space adventure,

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Speaker 1: so it is not serious at all, but I highly

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Speaker 1: recommend that one. There's nineteen seventies The Vampire Lovers, as

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Speaker 1: well as Scars of Dracula from the same year. Then

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Speaker 1: we have seventy one's Doctor Jekyl and Sister Hide, as

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Speaker 1: well as the seventy four Hammer Shaw Brothers co production

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Speaker 1: The Legend of the Golden Vampires. He was a co

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Speaker 1: director on that. I've never seen this one. It's blong,

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Speaker 1: but on my list because I love Hammer films, I

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Speaker 1: love Shaw Brothers pictures. I'm to understand it's audacious but

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Speaker 1: also a clear clash of styles, so it's still on

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Speaker 1: the list. I could be nudged in the direction of

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Speaker 1: watching it, though.

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Speaker 3: I think I have put that one on years ago

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Speaker 3: while I was cooking, and it didn't really pay a

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Speaker 3: lot of attention to it, but it looked wild.

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Speaker 1: It's just a wild idea, and sometimes wild ideas don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily come together. I mean, it's audacious to think that

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Speaker 1: you would take these two distinct styles of filmmaking and

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Speaker 1: merge them together into something that fans of either would like.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know it has its following. He also

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Speaker 1: did some gothic horror films for Amicus. He did Asylum

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Speaker 1: from seventy two and The Vault of Horror from seventy three,

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Speaker 1: and he was active as a director into the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: All right, coming back around to the writer here, Nigel

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Speaker 1: Neil has original story slash screenplay credit here. He lived

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two through two thousand and six. Creator of

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Speaker 1: the Professor Bernard quator Mass franchise, with writing credits on

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Speaker 1: all of the original films and TV shows. The original

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Speaker 1: quator Mass series was his breakthrough, and he made a

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Speaker 1: career writing mostly thrillers, horror and sci fi pictures and

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Speaker 1: TV projects. His other credits include nineteen sixties The Entertainer,

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Speaker 1: sixty four's First Men in the Moon, and sixty six

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Speaker 1: is the Witches. He was an influence on such filmmakers

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Speaker 1: and authors as Stephen King, John Carpenter, and Dan O'Bannon.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Neil wrote an early draft of the Halloween

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Speaker 1: three season of the Witch script. Yeah, so I think

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Speaker 1: some of his ideas remain there, but he ends up uncredited.

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Speaker 1: And he also wrote the novel versions of the quator

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Speaker 1: Mass adventures.

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Speaker 3: You listed some authors and filmmakers who are known fans

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Speaker 3: of Neil, but from what I understand, he is more

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Speaker 3: generally kind of a horror writers writer. A lot of

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Speaker 3: like sci fi and horror writers and people who worked

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Speaker 3: in TV in the movies really look up for him

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Speaker 3: look up to him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, especially folks who came up. I've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that came up, like through the BBC

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Speaker 1: system back in the day, really admired his work. So

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Speaker 1: somehow the actor playing quator Mass here doesn't have top billing,

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Speaker 1: which I mean, there are always reasons for that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing, but I'm going to start with the playing

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Speaker 1: quator Mass because I feel like he's your title care

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Speaker 1: He's literally your title character. We got to start with him. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So here, quator Mass is played by Andrew Ker, who

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Speaker 1: I believe you mentioned already. He lived nineteen twenty six

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Speaker 1: through nineteen ninety seven. So this is, yeah, our chief protagonist,

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Speaker 1: our problem solver. He is a UK aerospace scientist.

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Speaker 3: Though like a lot of scientist protagonists in movies of

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Speaker 3: this sort, he seems to have expertise outside of his domain,

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Speaker 3: and like he's not just he doesn't just know about rockets.

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Speaker 3: He seems to know a lot about I don't know,

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Speaker 3: paleontology and the paranormal and everything, like all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But at the same time, they don't portray him

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Speaker 1: as like a polymath who has you know, complete expertise

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Speaker 1: in everything. So he does seek out experts. That's true

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Speaker 1: for instance, because he's like, oh, my Latin is terrible,

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Speaker 1: so I need somebody to translate this Latin. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an anthropologist or a paleontologist, so I defer

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 3: That sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So Kire was an actor of age, screen and TV,

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Speaker 1: with British film and TV credits going back to around

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty. I believe his credits include A Night to Remember,

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Speaker 1: which we already mentioned, nineteen sixty three's Cleopatra, and much

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Speaker 1: later in his career, nineteen ninety five's Rob Roy, alongside

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Speaker 1: numerous Hammer pictures. This is the only time he played

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Speaker 1: quator Mass, but his other Hammer credits are Pirates of

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Speaker 1: Blood River from sixty two, Dracula Prince of Darkness from

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Speaker 1: sixty six, The Viking Queen sixty seven, Zeppelin from seventy one,

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Speaker 1: and Blood from the Mummy's Tomb in seventy one.

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Speaker 3: I think Kier is quite good in this role. We

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Speaker 3: mentioned that quator Mass is a more serious character than

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Speaker 3: say the doctor in The Doctor Who. It's a he

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Speaker 3: doesn't really get a lot of room to play in

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Speaker 3: the movie. He's you know, I think he only cracks

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Speaker 3: like one or two jokes the entire film. It's a

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Speaker 3: very serious, straightforward, down the middle roll. And so I

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Speaker 3: think that's the kind of thing that's hard to do

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Speaker 3: because he doesn't get to be all that expressive except

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Speaker 3: in certain expressions of like outrage and indignance when he's

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Speaker 3: faced with the fools, you know, the militaristic fools and

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Speaker 3: the government who are trying to throttle his you know,

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Speaker 3: peaceful advancement of science for his career. So like, I

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Speaker 3: guess he does get a bit there, but I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's not a role where there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: room to play, and yet he does quite well with it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. He doesn't get any moments of real

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Speaker 1: whimsy or humor. Or. When they do occur, they're very slight.

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Speaker 1: They're not the driving force of the character.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: Now, the top build actor was actually James Donald playing

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Speaker 1: the character doctor Ronnie. Ronnie is our cutting edge paleontologist

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Speaker 1: who is you know, he's all about the fossils, but

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Speaker 1: he's also all about like strapping things to people's heads

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Speaker 1: and so they can read their brain waves and see

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Speaker 1: their thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I've got thoughts about that. James Donald as

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Speaker 3: Ronnie is he's a little bit Roddy Dowell and a

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Speaker 3: little bit Michael Palin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I can see that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he lived nineteen seventeen through nineteen ninety three. I

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Speaker 1: was a Scottish actor. He was considered something of an

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Speaker 1: actor's actor at the time. According to the Julian Glover interview,

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Speaker 1: like g Glover just really really loved his word. He

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Speaker 1: loved all of the actress he was working with in

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Speaker 1: this and had very nice things to say about them,

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Speaker 1: but James Donald in particular. So his credits include roles

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Speaker 1: in such films as fifty seven's The Bridge over the

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Speaker 1: River Kwai, fifty eights The Vikings, and nineteen sixty three

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Speaker 1: is The Great Escape. His other credits include sixty five's

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Speaker 1: King Rat and nineteen seventy eight's The Big Sleep. After

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Speaker 1: The Big Sleep, he apparently left acting do in large

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Speaker 1: part to worsening asthma conditions that he was dealing with,

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Speaker 1: and ended up devoting the rest of his time to

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Speaker 1: wine making. So you know, kudos to him the Maynard Path,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: Now, the next character we have is doctor Roney's assistant.

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Speaker 1: This is Barbara Judd, played by Barbara Shelley. She lived

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two through twenty twenty one English model turned

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Speaker 1: actress who became something of a horror movie staple for

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Speaker 1: roles in such films as fifty eighth, Blood of the Vampire,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, Village of the Damned, sixty four is the Gorgon,

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Speaker 1: sixty six is Dracula, Prince of Darkness, as well as

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Speaker 1: Rasputin The Mad Monk, and she was also a prolific

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Speaker 1: British TV actress.

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Speaker 3: She's also quite good in this same thing. I would

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Speaker 3: say about the other characters we've talked about so far.

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Speaker 3: It's a very straightforward, down the middle kind of performance.

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Speaker 3: So it's a serious role, but she does well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely gets to kick into high year during

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Speaker 1: the third act.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Now, the film's human antagonist for the most part is

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Speaker 1: Colonel Breen, and he is played here by Julian Glover

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Speaker 1: born nineteen thirty five and as of this recording, still living,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the only surviving cast member and also still active

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Speaker 1: at age ninety.

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Speaker 3: We were just talking off Mike before where we started

395
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Speaker 3: recording about whether Julian Glover has ever played a good guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't remember a role that he had

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Speaker 1: that we could classify as a good guy. But I'm

398
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Speaker 1: he's been active for so long I know he did.

399
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Speaker 1: I mean, inevitably he played some good guys and some

400
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Speaker 1: at least good to neutral to good supporting characters.

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Speaker 3: He plays a lot of kind of friendly bad guys, amiable,

402
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Speaker 3: hospitable villains.

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah, like even in this like he is. I don't know,

404
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: the D and D spectrum of alignment doesn't always certainly

405
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Speaker 1: doesn't always apply to real life, and not even always

406
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Speaker 1: always does it apply to fiction. Like this is a

407
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Speaker 1: character who kind of has a tunnel vision about things.

408
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Speaker 1: He sees the world in a particular light, and he

409
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Speaker 1: is completely unable and unwilling to budge when new evidence

410
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Speaker 1: would seem to alter his worldview.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very lawful, neutral.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean he I think he believe he's

413
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Speaker 1: doing good. But it'll be interesting to discuss his art

414
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Speaker 1: because I mean, he has some pretty logical counter arguments

415
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Speaker 1: for most of the picture.

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Speaker 3: You know, we might get into this more later, but

417
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Speaker 3: I was thinking about how when he has a competing

418
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Speaker 3: theory to explain the find in the tunnel, competing with

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Speaker 3: quater Mass' explanation. In reality, if we were to find

420
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Speaker 3: something of this kind, his theory would probably be the

421
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 3: much better one. But yeah, just we know quater Mass

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Speaker 3: is right because you know it's a movie.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we know we're watching a science fiction film,

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Speaker 1: and therefore quator Mass's sci fi explanation is the one

425
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Speaker 1: we realize is the correct one. But Breen's argument would

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Speaker 1: make more sense in our real world. So Glover was

427
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Speaker 1: only thirty two years old at the time, and, according

428
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Speaker 1: to Glover, probably much too young to actually play this character,

429
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Speaker 1: but he didn't mind being cast. But English actor here

430
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: of stage, screen and TV with credits going back into

431
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Speaker 1: the fifties. He acted opposite Christopher Lee the same year,

432
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Speaker 1: sixty seven in Theater of Death. He was a staple

433
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Speaker 1: of British TV and film for years, but many at

434
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Speaker 1: least internationally, really took notice of him in nineteen eighty

435
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Speaker 1: when he played General Veers and the Empire Strikes Back,

436
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: one of, if not the only, high ranking Imperial officer

437
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: to ever survive the events of the Star Wars films.

438
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: He I believe, commands the assault on the rebel base

439
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 3: on Hawth and he does a good job.

440
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does like a good job. Seems successful. And

441
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 1: I didn't do a deep dive into the labyrinth of

442
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: Star Wars lore on this one, but it's my understanding

443
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: that he survived. He definitely survives the movie, does not

444
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: experience an on screen death in another film, and may

445
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: have just survived in general. So I don't know. Super

446
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: Star Wars fans can write in with additional insight, but

447
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: for the most part, like he came in, did his

448
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: job and left.

449
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 3: Wonder what he does after the collapse of the Empire.

450
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: He's like, well enough of that, then goes home.

451
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he retires, Maybe he takes up with the

452
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: New Republic. Maybe he's like, hey, you know, I'm just

453
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: doing my job and they're like, okay, fine, you know,

454
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: we have we'll we'll.

455
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: Hire you on.

456
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: I don't know at any rate, Julian Glover, let's see,

457
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: went on to play a Bond villain and eighty one's

458
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: For Your Eyes Only. This is not when I have

459
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: strong memories of.

460
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right. I don't remember exactly what his

461
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: plot is, but For Your Eyes Only, I think was

462
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 3: an attempt to just sort of pull Bond back down

463
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,239
Speaker 3: to Earth after the movies and the villain's plots had

464
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: all gotten really big, like every time the villain's plot

465
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 3: had become to you know, they're going to take over

466
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: the entire world or you know, or just like just

467
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: it got kind of oversized. And so For Your Eyes

468
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: Only was a very small, contained spy and crime thriller,

469
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: and so I think his aims were on those were

470
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 3: more on that level. I think maybe it's like he

471
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: got control of some kind of cryptographic device and was

472
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: going to sell it to the Soviets or something like that.

473
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't remember this one all that well. I

474
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: may I mainly remember that it had had topol in it,

475
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: and it also had Michael gothardt who we've talked about

476
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: on the show before. Yeah, but I kind of forget

477
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: Julian Glover's role in it though he I believe he

478
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: is the main villain.

479
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a there's a final showdown at his hideout,

480
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 3: which is like up on top of this big mesa.

481
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember that. I remember the mesa. They

482
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: go up in a basket, right, yeah. Oh, and then

483
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: he played the villain Walter Donovan in nineteen eighty nine's

484
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade, And this is another

485
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: major role that a lot of people are going to

486
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: recognize Julian Glover from.

487
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he has a fan he's he's great as

488
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 3: the villain in that. But he also has a great

489
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 3: turbo rot.

490
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: Yes he does. So he's remained quite active for decades

491
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: that He voiced aragg who I believes a spider in

492
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and two's Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.

493
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: He appeared in two thousand and four'st Troy, and he

494
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: played grand Master Piecel on Game of Thrones. He also

495
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: appeared on the Crown all Right, So those are main actors.

496
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna there's an extended This is one of

497
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: those films that, again, it gets very procedural, so a

498
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: lot of government employees are called in to rule on this,

499
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: that or another matter concerning the event. I'm not going

500
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: to list all of them. We may come back to

501
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: a few as we proceed, but I do want to

502
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: mention the character Sladen, played by Duncan Lamont who lived

503
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen through nineteen seventy eight. Quator Mass in the

504
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: Pit again is not a funny movie. It doesn't have

505
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot of whimsy in it. This character is probably

506
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: the closest we get to a comic relief character. He's

507
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: our working class guy who's brought in to work a

508
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: high power drill.

509
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a funny little short monologue about how

510
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: he enjoys buying insurance. Yes makes him feel good.

511
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So this is probably the most smart when

512
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: ducing character in the picture. He was a British film

513
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: and TV character actor who also appeared on TV's The

514
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: quator Mass Experiment. Different character though, obviously. Oh and then

515
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: we have a character who serves under Colonel Breen who's

516
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: a little more a little less rigid in his thinking.

517
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: This is Captain Potter. He's played by Brian Marshall of

518
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight through twenty nineteen, British actor who also

519
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: appeared in seventy seven's The Spy Who Loved Me, nineteen

520
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: eighty's The Long Good Friday and eighty nine is the Punisher.

521
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: And then I do want to touch on the score here,

522
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: because the score is by Tristram Carey, who lived nineteen

523
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: twenty five through two thousand and eight English Australian composer

524
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: and electronic pioneer. Though much of the main score here

525
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: is not recognizably electronic, it's more traditional. But where Carrie

526
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: apparently really got to shine was the electronic underground vibration

527
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: noises and some of the other sci fi sounds in

528
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: the picture. He created these with his electronic expertise, and

529
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: they're I think they're quite impressive.

530
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: There are many scenes of a sound being generated which

531
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: is symbol of a kind of field of that is

532
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: created by an object in the movie that affects character's minds,

533
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: and when we hear the sound, we know something horrible

534
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 3: is happening. And yeah, it's good sound work.

535
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it was kind of advanced for

536
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: the time. I was reading that. Like one of the

537
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: one of the individuals who critiqued it when it came out,

538
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: they complained about the electronic noises. They're like, these noises

539
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: are too disturbing. But so I love the sci fi

540
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: sound design here, and we'll get into the visual effects

541
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: as we go. But I think if the visual effects

542
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: do fall short at all, the sound design is also

543
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: there to help sort of elevate what's going on. And

544
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to undercut the traditional score of the

545
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: picture either, because it is effective, moody, and I think

546
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: particularly poignant during the end credits.

547
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree, And.

548
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: We'll come back to that, of course when we get

549
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: into the plot. But anyway, Carrie's other scores include nineteen

550
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: fifty five's The Lady Killers, seventy one's Blood from the

551
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: Mummy's Tomb, in some episodes of TV's Doctor.

552
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: Who Are you ready to talk about the plot? Let's

553
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 3: do it, Rob. I've got a picture of the title

554
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: screen for you to look at here, and I got

555
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: to say, this does not look like a science fiction

556
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: film based on the title screen has a much more

557
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: either gothic horror or maybe even kind of gross Italian

558
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: horror look to it. This could this could have Paul

559
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 3: Nashy in it.

560
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just a big old red skull there. And yeah,

561
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: you can of course say the more skulls are science, right,

562
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: but no, it definitely reads more horror here.

563
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: That's true if you think about physics and chemistry, any

564
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: object you show could be science. Yeah. So we open

565
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: on an empty, dreary, rain soaked city street in London

566
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 3: in what appears to be the early morning hours. Now

567
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't tell immediately if this was a real location

568
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: in London or if it was just an extremely good set.

569
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: It has verisimilitude, but it also has that claustrophobic, boxed

570
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: in feeling of a street built on a sound stage.

571
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: But maybe some streets in London are just like that,

572
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 3: you know, some streets in reality are. Last year I

573
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: was in Chicago and I remember noticing there were some

574
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 3: streets I was on in Chicago that had that street

575
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: on a sound stage feeling.

576
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

577
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, Anyway, a bobby and a police helmet is out

578
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: wandering the road and he's the only human being in sight,

579
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: so it's very lonely out he crosses the street passes

580
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: a storefront and there's a white cat pacing at the threshold.

581
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: He stops for a moment next to the cat, and

582
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: then he moves on along the sidewalk to the illuminated

583
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: entrance to an underground station, and the awning over the

584
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: gate tells us that this is the stop for Hobb's End.

585
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: Intense music builds here, so we cut inside to see

586
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: a sign explaining that the hobs End station is currently

587
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: closed because of construction work in the tunnel. I think

588
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: they're trying to connect two existing lines it with an extension,

589
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: and deep below we hear jackhammer's rattling and machines echoing

590
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: through the tunnels and the halls, and then we cut

591
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: down to join the construction crew. They're busy digging to

592
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: extend the shaft. I must say, something looks seriously wrong

593
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: with the earth they are digging through. It is not

594
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: dry soil, but it's like a wet, pale, chocolate goop

595
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: kind of mud slime.

596
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: Oh, you're just saying this because we just watched Willi

597
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: Wanka on The Chocolate Factor. It just looks That's the

598
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: only reason it looks like chocolate here.

599
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: But didn't it look a little too goofy.

600
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it looks a little They describe it

601
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: as being mostly clay later on, and I guess it

602
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: does have that feel, But yeah, I never I know.

603
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: This is one of those situations where, yeah, put to

604
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: the test, I never completely believe this was like actual

605
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: raw mud from underneath London, but I was very easily

606
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: able to suspend disbelief here.

607
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 3: So the workers are shoveling the mud and clay onto

608
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: a conveyor belt, which takes it away to be removed

609
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: in little mining carts. But suddenly one of them notices

610
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: something in one of the clods on the belt. It

611
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: is what appears to be a human skull music sting,

612
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: or at least it looks like a human skull, but

613
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: the cranium is shaped a little bit odd. It's it's

614
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: kind of big, except it's not the whole skull. It's

615
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: just the front half of the skull, like just the face.

616
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: And we get some great you know British character you

617
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 3: know performances here, like hey, look at these dead eyes.

618
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 3: Get a load of the nashers, and then he tosses

619
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: the muddy skull straight into this other guy's arms. The

620
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: guy gets mud all of his all over his sweater,

621
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 3: so the workers keep digging, and then they uncover a

622
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 3: full skeleton, again with a weird skull, so the discovery

623
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: is immediately a sensation, and we cut to the next

624
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: day where there are local newspapers running with the headline

625
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: underground ape Men. By the time we arrived back at

626
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: the dig site, it has been taken over by scientists

627
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: who are continuing to excavate in an attempt to understand

628
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: what the find means. These scientists include the paleontologist doctor

629
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: Matthew Ronie again that's James Donald and his assistant Barbara

630
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: Judd played by Barbara Shelley. Ronie is talking to a

631
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: group of reporters about how they've uncovered six skeletons already

632
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: and about how the authorities will soon want to resume

633
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: excavation to complete the underground line, but his team has

634
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: to be given more time to do a proper scientific survey.

635
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: This could be one of the most significant finds in

636
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: the history of paleontology, and he believes it is evidence

637
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: that humans like us walk to the planet as early

638
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: as five million years ago, much earlier than the consensus

639
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: idea on the emergence of anatomically modern humans, though I

640
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: guess these would be somewhat different because they got the

641
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: giant skulls. And even this conversation kind of begins a

642
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: theme that will continue throughout the film, which is scientists

643
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: struggling against authorities and other governmental demands. Like he's saying, like,

644
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 3: this is really important. We have to preserve this site

645
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 3: so that we can excavate it properly, make sure everything

646
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: is documented well, but he knows the authorities are just

647
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: going to want to get the jackhammers back in there

648
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: and keep extending the line as fast as they can.

649
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 3: So he's trying to enlist the help of the press

650
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: to make the public sympathize with how important of a

651
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 3: discovery this is, so that they can have the time

652
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: they need. Ronie also here unveils a reconstruction he has

653
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: put together of the so called ape man. It looks

654
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 3: like an old man with a sad face. He's got

655
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: kind of a protruding chin and an underbite and a

656
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: huge cranium. I'm not sure why these ape men had

657
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: a brain the size of a Thanksgiving turkey, but they did.

658
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 3: Oh well, maybe we'll find out. Ronnie does caution this

659
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 3: is speculative, but.

660
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: He put a lot of into it. Like this, this

661
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: guy is really an overachiever.

662
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

663
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: It's like you have the like, how long have you

664
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: been working down here? Like a few days? Yeah, and

665
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: he already has this complete model there to show to

666
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: the press.

667
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: It's yeah, but it fits the character, like this guy

668
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: is on it, but he's dedicated to his work. Yeah.

669
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 3: While Ronnie is in the middle of showing off his

670
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 3: chin geezer, one of the other researchers working on the

671
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 3: dig here uncovers what appears to be a pipe. So

672
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: she's digging in the wall and like hits something that

673
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: looks like metal, but the pipe is not marked on

674
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 3: any of their maps from the city. By the way.

675
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: This other researcher, the one who finds the pipe, is

676
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: Missus Dobson played by b Duffel, whom I knew I

677
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: recognized from something the moment we saw her here, couldn't

678
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: figure out what it was. Eventually I realized it was

679
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: from Maddy Python in The Holy Grail, where she is

680
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 3: the old woman that Arthur and Betevir try to ask

681
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: for directions on where to buy a shrubbery, and she

682
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: says like no, woh, I won't tell you no shrubberies,

683
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 3: and they torture her by saying knee to her.

684
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember this good connection here, nice, nice, nice connection.

685
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: Anyway, the paleontologists are all quite puzzled, so they've got

686
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 3: the schem addicts of all the infrastructure that's supposed to

687
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: be buried around them. There's nothing marked in the wall aheads,

688
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: supposed to be just earth, nothing there, and yet they

689
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 3: seem to have hit metal, So what could it be.

690
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 3: The next thought is, uh, oh, it's a bomb. And

691
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 3: I liked this development because this felt real. This is

692
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: postwar London and it would not at all have been

693
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: unreasonable to think that this could be unexploded ordnance dropped

694
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 3: during the Blitz. In fact, even in the twenty first

695
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: century in more recent years, like diggers and builders in

696
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: the UK still sometimes find unexploded bombs left over from

697
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: World War II. So the bombs drop, they're huge. When

698
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: they hit, they bury themselves deeply, and then something like

699
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: ten percent of bombs don't explode when they're supposed to

700
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: do so. Occasionally you will just find like, oh, a

701
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: bomb hit here and ended up buried, and nobody ever

702
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: figured out it was there and it never blew up.

703
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: Yeah.

704
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: So this is another nice procedural plot beat in the picture.

705
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 4: You know.

706
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: It just this makes total sense that they would they

707
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: would find whatever this is and think, well, okay, the

708
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: most likely scenario is this is an unexploded bomb. Let's

709
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: call it the right people to deal with this.

710
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a bomb disposal squad is called in. Ronny

711
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 3: again is extremely irritated. His goal is the preservation of

712
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 3: the dig site so it can be of maximal value

713
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 3: to science. And he watches all the men coming in

714
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: with their equipment, the bomb disposal squad, and he mutters bitterly,

715
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: and that's right, tear it all up. And you can sympathize,

716
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: like when the first guy gets to the wall with

717
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: the with you know, with the piece of metal in it,

718
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 3: he just kind of yanks a bone out of the

719
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: mud and tosses it aside.

720
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, but at the same time, these

721
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: guys are here to make sure that the whole block

722
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: doesn't blow up.

723
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the bomb disposal texts speculate that it might

724
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: They look at it, they think what could it be?

725
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: They say it might be a satan And I was like,

726
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 3: what that's weird. I had to look it up, but

727
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: that is real. There was a type of German bomb

728
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 3: that was nicknamed a Satan. It's like the SC eighteen

729
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: hundred bomb.

730
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. I looked this up as well, so it's

731
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, they really did nickname it the Satan, which

732
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 1: ties in nicely with some some places that this story

733
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: is going to eventually go.

734
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: But eventually the bomb squad realizes something is not right.

735
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 3: They've got a little magnetic microphone that they use to

736
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: you know, put it on the capsule and listen inside,

737
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: and it doesn't even stick to it. It's like the

738
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 3: object is not even made of metal, so what is it? Well,

739
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: they decide to dig it out some more and get

740
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 3: a better idea of what they're dealing with. The phrase

741
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 3: they say is let the dog see the rabbit.

742
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay.

743
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 3: In the next scene, we will meet a couple of

744
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: other major characters, Professor Bernard quator Mass played by Andrew

745
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: Kis and Colonel Breen played by Julian Glover. Quator Mass

746
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: here is a serious, thoughtful, scholarly man in a tweed

747
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 3: suit and bow tie, wearing a dark beard accented with gray.

748
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 3: When we first meet him. He's seated in a red

749
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: armchair and having a tense discussion with his superiors in

750
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: the government, Colonel Breen. Again, this Julian Glover is a trim,

751
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: well groomed, I would say, super silliest man in a

752
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: brown military uniform. Again, he's got that great brown mustache

753
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: that apparently I didn't know when I watched, but apparently

754
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: Julian Glover really had to manage the color on. And

755
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: Breen has a tendency to roll his eyes and turn

756
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: his nose up. It's like he is above all this.

757
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we're quickly going to see there is

758
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: there's a real clash of visions here between these two.

759
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: Yes. So we enter the scene in the middle of

760
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: a conflict. Essentially, what I gather is that Professor quater

761
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 3: Mass has long been in command of a government project

762
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: for developing rockets. Essentially, I think he's supposed to be

763
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: in charge of the British space program, and the rockets

764
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: he's developing are for the purpose of the peaceful colonization

765
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 3: of the Moon. But the government official in the scene

766
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: tells him that, due to a change of policy, his

767
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: project is now being taken out of civilian control and

768
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: handed over to the military, so that instead of building

769
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 3: peaceful moon bases for the purpose of scientific research, the

770
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: plan will now be to build launch pads on the

771
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 3: Moon so that the UK and its allies will be

772
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: able to, in breenswords quote police the Earth with ballistic missiles,

773
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 3: and he says, if we don't do it first, the

774
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: other side will. Quator Mass hates this. He expresses open

775
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,479
Speaker 3: outrage and disgust. He feels this is a betrayal, it's

776
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 3: turning his peaceful work into a weapon. It's a perversion.

777
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: And you know, he's of the opinion that the desire

778
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: to possess the ultimate weapon is sort of the inevitable

779
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: desire of weak and fearful minds. Meanwhile, Breen regards quater

780
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: Mass with this detached, humorous pity. He's just kind of

781
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 3: scoffing at his idealism. When quat Mass at one point says,

782
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: you mean the installations on the moon will be military,

783
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: Breen seems a little surprised by the question. He says,

784
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,959
Speaker 3: of course, and he kind of laughs a bit. It's

785
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 3: like someone with quator Mass's views seems so quaint to

786
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: him that it's ridiculous.

787
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at this point in the film, it is

788
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: like really clear that they are both very much in

789
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: their own worlds and they just, i mean, they really

790
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: can't even conceive of the mindset in worldview of the

791
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: other individual. Like to Breen, of course, all of this

792
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: is of military concern, Like ultimately everything is we can't

793
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: just ignore, you know, the military balance of the world

794
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: around us. And then quator Mass is just like pure

795
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: like future and ideal, you know, let's move out humanity,

796
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: moving beyond Earth and colonizing other worlds, and and he

797
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: thinks that like that any kind of like military objective

798
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: is just blasphemous, you know. And so ultimately, like you

799
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: you kind of get the idea or at least idea

800
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: that there's a balance in between these two characters, but

801
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: they're there. They really neither one has room for the

802
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: other's viewpoint.

803
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 3: My read on it is that the author's intention is

804
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: to depict that there is a somewhat legitimate balance of

805
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: concerns here, but it definitely comes down more on the

806
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: side of quator Mass's point of view.

807
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: Oh yes, absolutely, I mean, I guess maybe it'll vary

808
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: a little bit at this point, depending on what sort

809
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: of viewer you are, but I feel like the intended

810
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: viewer for the most part is going to be siding

811
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: with quater Mass.

812
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, quator Mass says to Brien, We're on the

813
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 3: edge of a new dimension of discovery. It's a great

814
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: chance to leave our vices behind war first of all,

815
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: not to go out there dragging our hatred in our

816
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: frontiers along with us. Well put, I think, But Breen

817
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: says he is shocked and disturbed to hear such naive

818
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: views coming from someone in quator Mass's important position of leadership.

819
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 3: Quator Mass says, Brain has lost his humanity, It has

820
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: withered away while he's been locked up in his ivory fortress.

821
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 3: But then it gets worse from here. Cop movie fans

822
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: are about to recognize that the familiar archetypal scene. The

823
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 3: chief says, meet your new partner, you know, because the

824
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 3: government official here tells quator Mass that Brain will be

825
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: joining him in command of the rocket group, and then

826
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 3: he leaves the two of them alone.

827
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: Uh oh, yeah, but I will, said Breen does. He's like,

828
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: I'm sure if we have let's go have lunch at

829
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 1: my club. You know, we'll smooth all.

830
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: Of this over.

831
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: So you know it's at least Brain is like, seems

832
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: to be leaving the door open that they can come

833
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: to some sort of understanding, which makes him seem like

834
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: less of a pure antagonist at this point in the picture.

835
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Quator Mass is fuming, but Breen tries

836
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 3: to sort of extend his hand and he's like, yeah,

837
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: come have dinner at my club and we'll talk it through.

838
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: We'll figure out what we can do. But suddenly they're interrupted.

839
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: Instead of going to dinner at the club, a subordinate

840
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 3: delivers a note to Breen. It seems they cannot go

841
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 3: to supper because something requires his attention in the underground first,

842
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: and it seems quat Mass will be along for the ride.

843
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 3: So here our antagonistic duo arrive at the dig site

844
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 3: at Hobb's end, and they start to examine the buried object,

845
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: which is slowly being uncovered by the military men. It

846
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 3: no longer looks like a pipe. It is some kind

847
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: of large, smooth, trailer sized capsule of an unfamiliar material.

848
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 3: And though Brain and quator Mass dislike each other, we

849
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 3: can quickly see their complementary sets of expertise when they're

850
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 3: trying to identify what sort of rocket it could be.

851
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 3: They're just sort of bouncing ideas off each other, like

852
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: these men boase no rockets, and they're talking shop.

853
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: One of the.

854
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: Workers suddenly announces they have struck another skull in the mud,

855
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: and doctor Roney is here. He's called over to investigate,

856
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: and he pulls it out of the earth, ecstatic. It's

857
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 3: the best one yet, and it seems the skull confirms

858
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: all of his suspicions about the huge brained prehistoric commonids.

859
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 3: But quator Mass is the only one who seems to

860
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 3: notice something curious about this find. The skull was buried

861
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: essentially inside the cavity of the capsule. If the object

862
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: were a bomb, how did the fossil skull get inside

863
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: it without breaking m Maybe this object is not a

864
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: bomb worth considering. Some more clues start coming in. Breen

865
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 3: receives a report from Civil Defense. There is apparently no

866
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 3: record of high explosive falling on this part of the city,

867
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 3: only incendiary bombs which burned some unoccupied houses above during

868
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 3: the war. Why were the houses unoccupied, well, Breen says,

869
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 3: at first they were evacuated. Now naturally, but there's an

870
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: old police officer from the neighborhood, who tells Quator Mass, actually,

871
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 3: that's not right. Those houses were not evacuated. They were

872
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: all abandoned long before the war. He says, people just

873
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: wouldn't live there. Quote some kind of scare, superstition, A

874
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: lot of nonsense, I dare say. At this point, I

875
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 3: was already like ooh, I like the different flavors that

876
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 3: are being combined here.

877
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because we have men of science and military

878
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: at work, and then we have obvious sci fi elements,

879
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: but then this kind of ghostly element as well that's

880
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: presenting itself.

881
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 3: So while the others stay below, Quator Mass and the

882
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 3: old policeman walk up to the surface, accompanied by the

883
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 3: paleontology assistant Barbara Judd. Again, that's Barbara Shelley. She's been

884
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: they say, she's been cooped up in the tunnel for

885
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 3: a long time and she's got to go up to

886
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: get some fresh air. Though if it's London in the sixties,

887
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how good the air at the surface

888
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 3: would be either. In fact, I think characters comment on

889
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: this a couple of times in the movie, like the

890
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: bad air quality in the city. Anyway, the policeman takes

891
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: the two of them across the street to have a

892
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 3: look at the abandoned houses that were fire bombed in

893
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: the war. They are apparently still abandoned and they're in disrepair.

894
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 3: So he opens the door and lets them inside. The

895
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 3: policeman says, nobody has lived in these houses for probably

896
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 3: forty years now. Inside they are skeletal, they're stripped of

897
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 3: wire and piping, with weird scratches and marks on many

898
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 3: of the walls. There's this eerie energy in here. And

899
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: the policeman explains that when he was a child in

900
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 3: the neighborhood, he knew a kid who lived in one

901
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 3: of these houses, but things got so bad the family

902
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 3: had to clear out. And equator Masses like, what what

903
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 3: do you mean things got so bad? And already the

904
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: cop is acting kind of sheepish. He's like, uh, noises, bumps,

905
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: even things being seen. Quator Mass says, you mean ghosts,

906
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 3: and the policeman is embarrassed, like it seems he does

907
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: not want to say anything more. Again, it's like, oh,

908
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: you know, just the usual nonsense. He seems to be

909
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 3: under a kind of stress, like his expression is tight

910
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 3: and they're sweat dripping down his temple and as they're talking.

911
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: The door through which they entered begins to creak shut

912
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 3: under its own weight, and then behind the door are

913
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 3: revealed more of these scratch marks on the walls, almost

914
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: like the raking of huge cat claws, and so quator

915
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: Mass asks what are those marks? What could have made them?

916
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 3: And the policeman is increasingly under stress, his breathing is short.

917
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 3: He says, kids playing around, probably, and then he bolts outside,

918
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: followed by quator Mass and Misjudd. So something's happening to him.

919
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 3: The policeman, he kind of wipes sweat from his face

920
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 3: with a handkerchief and he chokes out an embarrassed apology

921
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: to the other two. He's like, sorry about that, serma

922
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 3: must have been a bit warm in there, and then

923
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: just hurries away. Very strange.

924
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a nice little sequence and a nice character.

925
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: I didn't clock who this this character actor was, but

926
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: you get this great feeling of, you know, the overall

927
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: plot here concerned something buried that is being unearthed, uh,

928
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: and the ramifications of that, and then we get kind

929
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: of the small version of that here encapsulated with this

930
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: with the unearthing of the past, the more recent past,

931
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: and some of these some of the traumas and memories

932
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: associated with it.

933
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

934
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. But also I thought it's interesting in this scene

935
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 3: that it's like the police officer both wants to tell

936
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: them about it and doesn't want to tell them. It's

937
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: like it's like he wants to share this somehow, but

938
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: he's also embarrassed and almost like maybe there's some kind

939
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: of like his you know, his his control bolt like

940
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 3: the Droids and Star Wars, is like preventing him.

941
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like, you know, he's doing the the good thing,

942
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: you know, the lawful thing, and and sharing what he

943
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: knew with these these other investigators, but maybe wasn't prepared

944
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: for how traumatic it was to actually let some of

945
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: those memories back out again and in a space like this.

946
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, quator Mass and Breen reunite, and it turns

947
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 3: out they have both independently decided they would like to

948
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: stay here and investigate this buried missile a bit more

949
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 3: before returning to their work with the Rocket group. So

950
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: Breen says his men should have the entire object excavated

951
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: by the following day. After Breen leaves, there is this

952
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 3: great little moment between quator Mass and Barbara Judd. They

953
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 3: stand on the street looking at the sign for Hobbs Lane.

954
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 3: There's a new sign right next to the old sign.

955
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 3: The old sign is etched into the stone facade of

956
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 3: a building. The current name for the street is Hobbes

957
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 3: with two bees. Quator Mass says, like the cricketer, I

958
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 3: guess that's Jack Hobbs, And the old name was Hobbs

959
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 3: Lane with one bee. Miss Judd points out that this

960
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: version of the word hobb was an old word that

961
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 3: meant devil.

962
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: Oh, like hob goblin.

963
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: Gotcha hm. Then we get a very hammer music sting there.

964
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 3: All right. So the next scene is one of I

965
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: would say, one of the most unintentionally funny things in

966
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 3: the movie, because we get some brain scanning machinery. Quator

967
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 3: Mass goes to visit Rone at his lab in the

968
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 3: Natural History Museum and Ronnie is doing these weird experiments,

969
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 3: I would say, especially weird experiments for a paleontologist to

970
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 3: be doing. Yeah, he's got a guy hooked up to

971
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 3: a helmet with a bajillion little wires coming out of it,

972
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 3: and that's hooked up, they say, to a computer and

973
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 3: a big machine that is hooting softly, and Ronie explains

974
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 3: that they are sensing the brain waves of this volunteer

975
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 3: named mister Johnson, because this is what they say, because

976
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: his skull shape just happens to be very similar to

977
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 3: the skull of a fossil hominid from the quote second

978
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: ice age.

979
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he has tenure at this point. That's

980
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: why I was able to to do these added consciousness experiments.

981
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. So they say that somehow by scanning mister Johnson's

982
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 3: brain with this machine while he's like solving a puzzle,

983
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 3: because his skull is shaped like the skull of this

984
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: ancient human or human ancestor, they will be able to

985
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 3: know what this ice age hominid was quote able to

986
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 3: think and do. I don't know about that. But quator

987
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 3: Mass is like, ah, yes, the Roney analysis. I think

988
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: it's like he's already familiar with this technique from the literature.

989
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: This guy definitely publishes, Like you get the sense that

990
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: he's already submitted a paper about the hobs End excavation.

991
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: You know, that's just how on the ball this guy is.

992
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 3: Rony hopes next to be able to apply this test

993
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 3: to the giant skulls he found in the tube. But

994
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: then I was thinking that's what he says. But I

995
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 3: was wondering, Wait, does that mean he's going to have

996
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: to find a living person with a head shaped like that?

997
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, this part of this is a little shaky. It's

998
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: going to be important later on, but like some of

999
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: the science here is a little shaky.

1000
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 3: So quator Mass has a sensitive question for Ronnie about

1001
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 3: the creatures to whom the skeletons belonged. He kind of

1002
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: pulls him aside and he says, were they of this earth?

1003
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 3: Roney says, sorry to disappoint, but yes they were. They're

1004
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 3: clearly part of the pattern of human evolution, except for

1005
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 3: the giant skulls. Otherwise they fit perfectly in with the

1006
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 3: human ancestor fossil record. These are humans of Earth, but

1007
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 3: just with big skulls. So the questions are really piling up.

1008
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 3: Before heading back to the excavation, Quator Mass bumps into

1009
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 3: Miss Judd and she has been doing some library research.

1010
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 3: She found some old newspapers about Hobbs Lane from the

1011
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 3: nineteen twenties and it's all stories of hauntings. There's something

1012
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: called the Hobbs Lane spook, which is a specter that

1013
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: walks through bedroom walls, described by some people as a

1014
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 3: small humanoid reacher with hideous features, and quator Mass it

1015
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: first tries to wave this off. He's like, wow, you know,

1016
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: we're scientists. We can't waste our time with stuff like this. Meanwhile,

1017
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 3: back at the station, Colonel Breen and his men have

1018
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 3: uncovered the whole object, which does not resemble a rocket

1019
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: or bomb at all. Instead, I would say it looks

1020
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: like a huge, shiny, metallic orc boot.

1021
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I have to say I think he

1022
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: did a great job with the I mean, I'm gonna

1023
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: go ahead and call it what we are all. I

1024
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: think aware that it's going to be the spaceship here

1025
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: the artifact, because it does convincingly look like some sort

1026
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 1: of a metallic object that's maybe not made of any

1027
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: kind of conventional earth metal. Its shape, you know, defies

1028
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: our expectations of human technology. So I think it looks

1029
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: really good.

1030
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the design. We were also talking about

1031
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 3: this off mic before we started. But I would say,

1032
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: in general, well, I think quator Mass in the Pit

1033
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 3: is quite AMBITI just in terms of sci fi storytelling.

1034
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 3: I would not say it's generally very ambitious in terms

1035
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: of visual spectacle, but most of the stuff in it

1036
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 3: looks pretty good. I would say, with a few exceptions

1037
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 3: that you know that we're about to get to some

1038
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 3: alien bodies that I think are not the most spectacular

1039
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 3: thing I've ever seen. But the alien ship looks pretty good.

1040
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: And we'll see a cool projection kind of energy projection

1041
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 3: object at the end of the movie that looks pretty

1042
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 3: cool too.

1043
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: That one looks really good as well. It's just the

1044
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: alien bodies which we're about to get to. These are

1045
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: the less convincing elements. But this is one of those

1046
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 1: pictures when everything else is working. You know, you can

1047
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,800
Speaker 1: you can easily suspend disbelief, and you know it ultimately

1048
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 1: elevates the effect.

1049
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so they say that the object to the ship,

1050
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: as we've revealed now, displays bizarre properties. Of course they

1051
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 3: don't know it's a ship yet, but whatever this object is,

1052
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: the material it's made of, they say, is harder than diamond.

1053
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 3: The soul try to cut it with a blow torch,

1054
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 3: and not only does the torch not cut through after

1055
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 3: having the flame on it for five minutes, it doesn't

1056
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: even get warm. The soldiers also find that they have

1057
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,240
Speaker 3: to wear gloves because those of them that have touched

1058
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 3: the object with bare hands end up with some kind

1059
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: of tissue damage. They say it resembles mild frostbite. This,

1060
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 3: of course, is even though the object does not feel

1061
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 3: cold to the touch. They say. Most of the interior

1062
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 3: cavity is empty except for one spot that seems to

1063
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 3: taper off into a sealed compartment, and Colonel Breen has

1064
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 3: turned his attention to the sealed compartment because he thinks

1065
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 3: it may still contain a warhead. Now here's a weird development.

1066
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 3: Quator Mass goes inside to look at this compartment wall

1067
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 3: and he finds a pattern of markings that, after he

1068
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 3: wipes away the clay, he says, are well, we see them.

1069
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 3: They're like an etching of these interlocked circles. And he

1070
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 3: says they form quote a pentacle, one of the Kabbalistic

1071
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 3: signs of ancient magic. Huh again, weird clashing of themes.

1072
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: That's not usually what you find on a spaceship. Yeah.

1073
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we have this like this weird triangle we

1074
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: keep reinforcing, connecting paleontology to to occultism to science fiction.

1075
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 3: Shortly after this, one of the soldiers, a guy named West,

1076
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 3: is inside the cavities I think. They say he's hosing

1077
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 3: out mud or something, and out of nowhere, he just

1078
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: starts to scream in terror. The others go inside to

1079
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 3: check on him, and he's like collapsed in the corner.

1080
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: He says he saw someone. He says, there was a

1081
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 3: frightening little figure coming toward him and it walked straight

1082
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: through the wall. They get him out of the ship

1083
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: and they're, you know, they're giving they're medicinally giving him whiskey.

1084
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: It's another one of those movies. What was the other

1085
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: one like that we watched recently where everybody seemed to

1086
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: believe that liquor had medicinal value.

1087
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, I feel like there have been several like

1088
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: that over the years where crawling eye. Crawling eye was

1089
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: definitely one.

1090
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: Yes. So he's sucking on the flask and Miss Judd

1091
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: comes up to him and says, was it like a small,

1092
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,919
Speaker 3: hideous dwarf? And he says, well, you know, by god,

1093
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 3: that's exactly what it was like. How did you know? Well,

1094
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 3: at this point, quator Mass is starting to become convinced

1095
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 3: that Miss Judd was onto something with her library research,

1096
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: so they head back to the archives and sure enough,

1097
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: the history of hauntings at Hobbs Lane goes back much

1098
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: further than the nineteen twenties. They find pamphlets from the

1099
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: eighteenth century about ghosts and bizarre sightings in the locale

1100
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 3: and some like. There's a story that somebody is digging

1101
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 3: a well and they hear such grievous sounds that the

1102
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 3: man loses his mind with fear. There's another story that

1103
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 3: a local resident espied a strange goblin. And from here

1104
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: they move back in time. They go on to the

1105
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 3: archives of Westminster Abbey, where there's like a curator there

1106
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 3: who tells them, who's like reading from this giant Latin manuscript,

1107
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 3: who says, quote, in the winter of the year thirteen

1108
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 3: forty one, the religious of that region did strive against

1109
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 3: an outbreak of evil. At Hobbs Lane, imps and demons

1110
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 3: did appear. Foul noises sent by the devil did sorely

1111
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 3: affect the charcoal burners that had lately come there. So

1112
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 3: we've got a collection now of these times when hauntings

1113
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 3: are reported in this place. Charcoal burners in the fourteenth century,

1114
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 3: when they were felling great trees, in the eighteenth century,

1115
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 3: when people were digging a well in the nineteen twenties

1116
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,479
Speaker 3: when the underground station was being built and now, and

1117
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 3: in all cases, quator Mass notes, it's when the ground

1118
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 3: was being disturbed. So the next big development is that

1119
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 3: Breen hires a mechanic with a Borazon drill to cut

1120
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 3: through the sealed compartment so they can see what's inside.

1121
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 3: This is the guy Slatin I think we mentioned earlier

1122
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 3: who's got some he's got some comedic dialogue. At one point,

1123
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 3: when setting his drill up, he's telling a story about

1124
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 3: how he once like drilled through six inches of solid

1125
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 3: steel armor plating just like that, And then he says, oh,

1126
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 3: it was legal. A bloke got shut in a strong room,

1127
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 3: but I got him out. It was a secret job

1128
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: like this one. And then Colonel Breen says, then I'm

1129
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 3: glad you don't talk about it, and they ah. He's

1130
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 3: also like the guy who talks about being insured. You know,

1131
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: it's good to be insured. It cheers you up, he says.

1132
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 3: So he tries to drill, but the Borizon drill fails.

1133
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 3: And more than that, quator Mass and Breen are in

1134
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: the ship when he's trying to drill, and it seems

1135
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 3: to rattle the whole place, like some weird possession comes

1136
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 3: over them, and it's like Claxon's going off inside their heads.

1137
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 3: And afterwards, Colonel Breen goes outside the ship and vomits,

1138
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 3: and he's trying to play it off. He's just like,

1139
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 3: just some sort of freak vibration must have been but

1140
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems like it was more than that.

1141
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and this is of course what we get

1142
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: the excellent sound effects and sound design here, these electronic

1143
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: vibration noises, So the film, yeah, the film does a

1144
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: great job with this.

1145
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 3: Weirdly, after this, they check back and a hole has

1146
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 3: formed in the wall, in the wall of the sealed compartment,

1147
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 3: though it was not drilled by the drill. Instead, it

1148
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 3: looks almost melted from the inside. Then, as Rony Breen

1149
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 3: and Quator Mass stare at the compartment wall, there is

1150
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 3: a great moment of almost a kind of psychedelic animated

1151
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 3: image that forms. I didn't know what was going on

1152
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 3: for a second here, Like there's a crystalline pink dot

1153
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 3: on a black background, with these thin borders of fire

1154
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 3: creeping over the surface of the black and then pink

1155
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 3: cracks appear all over the blackness, like shattering glass that

1156
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 3: they sort of spread out into a spider web shape,

1157
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: and then finally, finally the black wall crumbles, revealing what's within,

1158
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 3: which is a pink and purple wall of prismatic material

1159
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 3: with several recesses, and inside the recesses there are giant bugs,

1160
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 3: weird insectoid creatures kind of like huge demonic grasshoppers with

1161
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: green compound eyes, gaping toothy mouths, and devil horns.

1162
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, this sequence is quite a ride, because already

1163
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: the spaceship set is really cool, and then yeah, we

1164
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: get this psychedelic animation sequence of that wall breaking open,

1165
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: and then and then the interior set is also really neat.

1166
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: But the bugs, which they're going to shortly, very shortly

1167
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,919
Speaker 1: be hauling out, these are less convincing. I mean, they're

1168
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: very neat in their details. I like the design. I

1169
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: like the ideas bound up in these creatures. You know

1170
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: that they're horned tripod insect or you know, at least

1171
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 1: arthropod creatures, but they just look a little bit to

1172
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: paper mache here.

1173
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you mentioned tripod. They do have three legs

1174
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 3: each and that all time that ties in, interestingly, I

1175
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 3: think to War of the world's pre existing alien invasion literature.

1176
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 3: But that also the characters point out to some classic

1177
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 3: imagery of the devil, like you would find in medieval

1178
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 3: manuscripts that show Satan with three legs.

1179
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't want to harp too much on

1180
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: the design here, because again I was able to I

1181
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: thought easily suspendous belief here and overlook the appearance. And

1182
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: they don't look near as bad as they could have.

1183
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: It's not so distracting that it throws you out of

1184
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: the picture. They don't look actively goofy oh.

1185
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean when I was saying earlier about the

1186
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 3: movie not being super ambitious in terms of visual spectacle,

1187
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 3: I didn't mean, like what's in it looks bad. I

1188
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 3: just meant that it has other concerns. It's not trying

1189
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 3: to show you a lot of amazing looking things.

1190
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like all the ideas bound up in these aliens

1191
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: are amazing. It's just that visually they're just a few

1192
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: steps below other visual elements in the picture.

1193
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, when they find these bodies, Breen expresses alarm,

1194
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 3: but quator Mass assures him that the creatures are dead,

1195
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 3: long dead. Roney immediately starts making arrangements to study these

1196
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 3: things scientifically. It has to be done fast because they've

1197
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: been sealed away for millions of years, and now that

1198
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 3: they have come into contact with the Earth's atmosphere, they

1199
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: are rapidly decomposing. And we almost get to see that

1200
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 3: happening in real time. Ronney and quator Mass are very

1201
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 3: keen to study and understand these creatures. They start to

1202
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 3: bring the bodies out of the ship themselves, like they're

1203
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: reaching in themselves and just pulling them out, trying to

1204
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 3: put them down. Notably, while they're doing that, Breen shows

1205
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: just evident disgust.

1206
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the disgust is great here because obviously these

1207
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: things are gross. They're talking about how they smell like

1208
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: dead fish and so forth. But also like very clearly

1209
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: this is a sudden roadblock to the logical militaristic expressway

1210
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: that been traveling on this whole time. Like this, these

1211
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: are like clearly aliens. Dude, It's going to be much

1212
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: harder to really advance this whole unexploded bomb theory.

1213
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, they both invalidate his theory, like they disagree

1214
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: with his interpretation of what this site was. But also

1215
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 3: I think it's supposed to comment again on one of

1216
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 3: the themes of this movie, which is the clash between

1217
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 3: the scientific temperament and the militaristic temperament. You know, where

1218
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 3: the scientist sees something that is new and wants to

1219
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 3: understand it, and the you know, the military temperament, at

1220
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 3: least is presented in this film, see something new and

1221
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 3: doesn't want to take the time to understand it, just

1222
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 3: wants to destroy it.

1223
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, or at the very least figure out where

1224
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: it fits into the pre existing military dynamics.

1225
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a funny part where when they're bringing these

1226
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 3: alien bodies out there already like dripping as if it's

1227
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 3: like melting ice cream, and one of the soldiers gets

1228
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 3: this alien goop dripping on him while he's laying out

1229
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 3: a sandbag underneath it. There was almost a little bit

1230
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 3: of it reminded me of earlier this week in our

1231
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 3: Core episodes where we're talking about Alfred Russell Wallace in

1232
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 3: his room covered in ants, where it's like he would

1233
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 3: find a specimen and he's like where to put it?

1234
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 3: Where will it go?

1235
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this thing's dripping everywhere. And I do like

1236
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: the urgency they end up showing because They're like, this thing,

1237
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: these things are rotting, We've got to preserve it quickly.

1238
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: And so they're working really quickly to get things preserved

1239
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: in liquids and in bottles and so forth. Get some

1240
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 1: specimen jars go in and so forth.

1241
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the paleontology team, they're trying to preserve the specimens.

1242
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 3: But the specimens are really breaking down quickly. We see

1243
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 3: a lot of them leaking green juice and thoracic sludge,

1244
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 3: legs just crumbling off in people's hands. Ronny and quator

1245
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 3: Mass discuss where these creatures come from, but also they

1246
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 3: talk about this is an interesting little moment and kind

1247
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: of understated even, but they talk about why these creatures

1248
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 3: look so familiar. Quator Mass says, isn't it odd how

1249
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 3: similar they look to gargoyles and devils that have appeared

1250
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 3: in human art for millennia. It's almost as if we

1251
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 3: knew these creatures before the discovery, as if from our dreams.

1252
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and where we begin to creep into some of

1253
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: those cosmic horror ideas, where this thing that we found

1254
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: is not only it's not just something entirely new, it's

1255
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: something that perhaps explains other things about our entire existence.

1256
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The thing that's more frightening than the unknown

1257
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 3: is the thing that you didn't know that you did know.

1258
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like what if we have been dreaming of these

1259
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: things throughout human history? How and why?

1260
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they do some scientific analysis, and the scientists

1261
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 3: figure out that these insectoid bodies were built for a

1262
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 3: world with low gravity and thin atmosphere. Immediately, quator Mass

1263
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 3: is like, sounds like Mars. Yeah, he's got Mars on

1264
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 3: the brain, and they start to sort of turn this

1265
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 3: over in their minds. Mars is dead now, but perhaps

1266
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 3: millions of years ago, could it have been full of life.

1267
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 3: There's a little exchange between quator Mass and Ronnie where

1268
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 3: quator Mass says the will to survive it's an odd phenomenon, Ronie.

1269
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:28,879
Speaker 3: If we found out Earth was doomed, say by climatic changes,

1270
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 3: what would we do about it? Ronnie says nothing, just

1271
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 3: go on squabbling as usual, And then quator Mass says, yes,

1272
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 3: but if we weren't men.

1273
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is pretty great because it is darkly humorous,

1274
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: but it also gets to the point like, yeah, what

1275
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: would non human entities that had an entirely different worldview

1276
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: and entirely different social structure. How might they have responded

1277
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: to some sort of coming apocalypse?

1278
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And quator Mass here builds in the assumption that

1279
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 3: maybe other aliens wouldn't have been as fractious and emotional

1280
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 3: and unable to focus on the common task at hand

1281
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 3: as we are.

1282
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if we're dealing with something that you know,

1283
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, might be some sort of

1284
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:17,799
Speaker 1: use social insect.

1285
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so Quatermass, Judd, and Roney decide that they

1286
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 3: should communicate directly to the press, so they release photos

1287
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 3: and details to journalists, and the papers go wild with

1288
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,839
Speaker 3: reports about the find. And we learn in the following

1289
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 3: scene about Quatermass's interpretation of what's going on here. This

1290
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 3: is what Quatermas thinks, five million years ago there was

1291
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 3: life on Mars. Quote suppose that at that time there

1292
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 3: were living beings on Mars with techniques that let them

1293
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 3: visit the Earth at a time when the most highly

1294
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 3: evolved creatures here, our own ancestors, were only a type

1295
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: of Pliocene ape. His theory goes on, but at the

1296
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 3: same time, Mars was dying, so its natural environment had

1297
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 3: been degraded to the point where Mars would soon no

1298
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 3: longer be able to support life. So quat Mass says

1299
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 3: that the Martians quote may have wanted to found another

1300
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 3: colony when their own world was doomed, but couldn't endure

1301
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 3: our atmosphere, so they experimented. And the idea here is

1302
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 3: that the Martians took hominids from prehistoric Earth back to

1303
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 3: Mars and changed them, altered them, quator Mass says, quote,

1304
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 3: altered by selective breeding, atomic surgery methods we can't guess,

1305
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 3: and with new faculties instilled in them high intelligence, perhaps

1306
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 3: something else. So quater Mass is saying that in this way,

1307
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 3: the Martians could in effect colonize Earth by proxy. They

1308
01:10:56,479 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 3: could not physically themselves survive the condition on Earth, couldn't

1309
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 3: survive our atmosphere, our gravity and all that, but they

1310
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 3: could take naturally Earth adapted life forms, remake those life

1311
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 3: forms in their own image mentally at least, and then

1312
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 3: seed them back on Earth. Fascinating idea. Quat Mass says,

1313
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 3: if I'm right, we've come on a single instance, probably

1314
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 3: an accident, a landing that went wrong and they all died.

1315
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 3: The Thames Valley was a swamp then, and so that's

1316
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 3: his explanation. But in the scene where he explains this,

1317
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 3: we learned the fact that quater Mass and Rony went

1318
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 3: public with this idea before briefing quater Mass's superiors in

1319
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:45,560
Speaker 3: the government proves mighty displeasing to those superiors. There's like

1320
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 3: a scene where he's being grilled by the Minister of

1321
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,720
Speaker 3: Defense and the Minister of Defense says, you realize what

1322
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 3: you were implying that we owe our human condition here

1323
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 3: to the intervention of insects, and quat Mass says, I

1324
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: suppose I am yeah.

1325
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: I mean you can understand that the government would would

1326
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,679
Speaker 1: be a little concerned with how the public might react

1327
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,759
Speaker 1: to this. Like again, this is like a cosmic horror

1328
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: revelation that that there's nothing really anything noble about humanity

1329
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,600
Speaker 1: is only because we were kind of the like a

1330
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: plan B for a dying race on Mars. They could

1331
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 1: realize they couldn't just move to Mars, but they could

1332
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: create something that was maybe a distant echo of themselves here.

1333
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. It's it's an intelligent design theory of human origins,

1334
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,799
Speaker 3: but not with a supernatural creator, with a Martian creator

1335
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,919
Speaker 3: that was trying to essentially to make an alien animal

1336
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,440
Speaker 3: into something like a copy of themselves.

1337
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which, and it's such an interesting concept explored

1338
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:50,280
Speaker 1: here because it's not I mean, we can not everything

1339
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: is completely explained. I want to be clear, and there

1340
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: are various interpretations you could get in and maybe lean

1341
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: more in this direction. But it's not like they were

1342
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: creating these eight things as far as we know right

1343
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 1: to then like transfer their own minds into them.

1344
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 3: It was, I mean maybe, but it's not clear.

1345
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: It's not clear. So so it's possible that that's what

1346
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: they were doing. But on the other hand, it's entirely

1347
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: possible that it was like, well, life is ending, we're doomed.

1348
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: Let's create some sort of life and that will be

1349
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: our legacy on another world. And maybe not even in

1350
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: the most benevolent way. I mean, if it is benevolent,

1351
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: it's a very distant benevolence, Like life is pretty cool.

1352
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: Let's make sure there's still life somewhere in the solar system.

1353
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: It might be just like, well, you know, this is

1354
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:34,640
Speaker 1: this is going to be like our living tombstone for

1355
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: our own civilization.

1356
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the kind of the exact form that sort of

1357
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 3: mental memorial stone takes in us will get more complicated

1358
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 3: as the film goes on. So the government officials are

1359
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:54,839
Speaker 3: especially annoyed with quator Mass because Colonel Breen has actually

1360
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 3: a quite different interpretation of this find, one that the

1361
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 3: government at this point brain says, no, no, no, no, no,

1362
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 3: this is all a lot of nonsense. This craft is

1363
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 3: quite indeed a Nazi rocket left over from the war.

1364
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 3: His idea is, after Germany started to lose, they switched

1365
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 3: tactics and they attempted a propaganda operation to sow confusion

1366
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 3: and fear among the British public and to take their

1367
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 3: focus off of winning the war. So they sent an

1368
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 3: experimental rocket packed with weird, fake alien bodies and altered

1369
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 3: human skeletons. Except the only thing that went wrong is

1370
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 3: instead of discovering it when they were supposed to right

1371
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,679
Speaker 3: after it landed, the British did not discover it until

1372
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 3: now they were supposed to stumble on it immediately. The

1373
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 3: purpose was to cause exactly the kind of public fervor

1374
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 3: and media feeding frenzy that quator Mass has in fact

1375
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 3: caused with his statements to the press. And I gotta say,

1376
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I love this narrative, but quator Mass, you

1377
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 3: are here doing the thing that so many scientists in

1378
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 3: reality hate when one of them has a wildly speculative

1379
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 3: interpretation of something, and instead of taking it to their

1380
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:17,560
Speaker 3: peers and colleagues for discussion and criticism, you know, considering

1381
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 3: questions like does this really fit the evidence? Is it plausible?

1382
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 3: Are there more likely explanations? Instead of that, they just

1383
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:28,560
Speaker 3: run straight to the popular media, essentially trying to bypass

1384
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 3: the comment from people who have the relevant background knowledge

1385
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,600
Speaker 3: to explore the questions I just mentioned. But okay, you

1386
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 3: know it's a movie. Quat Mass is obviously right. I

1387
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 3: did just want to flag example number one million, that

1388
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 3: what the heroic scientists protagonist does in a sci fi

1389
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 3: movie is very often revolting crank behavior in real life.

1390
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: Plus, I want to highlight here that you know, Breen

1391
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: is clearly you know again as a character with tunnel

1392
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 1: vision and is and is in this point you manipulating

1393
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 1: things and it's essentially to begin a cover up. But

1394
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: at the same time, his counter hypothesis, this is what

1395
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: we alluded to earlier in the episode, is the one

1396
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: that would be more likely in real life, Like this

1397
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: is the one that if you were presented with these

1398
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 1: two possibilities Breens on the surface would make more sense

1399
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 1: because it requires fewer speculative leaps.

1400
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It requires many fewer assumptions of things

1401
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 3: not currently in evidence. So the main one being that

1402
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 3: there was a Nazi rocket program that had some kind

1403
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 3: of technology that has since not become known to the

1404
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 3: British right.

1405
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 1: And I think it is worth noting though that clearly,

1406
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: if this idea is pushed forward eventually, if they're allowed to,

1407
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: there would be voices that would say, well, there's no

1408
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: record of this type of ship ever, this type of

1409
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 1: rocket ever being built by the Germans. All likewise, you

1410
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: might have some lab results come in and say, well,

1411
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 1: there's no way that these creatures were essentially Fiji mermaids,

1412
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: like their tissue doesn't at anything that we have here

1413
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: on Earth and so forth. So I'm not sure that

1414
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: the Nazi propaganda attack explanation would hold water in the

1415
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 1: long term, but you can easily see how if it's

1416
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: pushed and other voices are suppressed, this could be.

1417
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 3: The cover up. Yeah, that's right. I mean, if you

1418
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 3: assume this situation where to actually happen, as pretty much

1419
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 3: as soon as you got to go, you know, like

1420
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 3: a full biological workup of these alien remains, people would

1421
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:31,719
Speaker 3: figure out this is real biological materials, you know, Yeah,

1422
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 3: this is not like a paper machet or something, even

1423
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 3: though it looks like paper mache. Yeah. But in the meantime,

1424
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 3: let's see to prove Breen's Nazi propaganda theory is correct,

1425
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 3: the Defense Minister plans to hold a public press conference

1426
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 3: where the ship is going to be revealed in full

1427
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 3: to the public. I forget why they think this will

1428
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 3: vindicate Breen. I don't know.

1429
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: Well, when we see bits of it later, they're even

1430
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: like saying, well, we're in touch with like the West

1431
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: German government and they're about to provide us with some

1432
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 1: evidence to back up what we're telling you. So they

1433
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: seem to have some they have some steps planned here.

1434
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: And it's interesting too to think about this film and

1435
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 1: the way it utilizes the press, you know, the scientists here,

1436
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: of course, the heroes. The press seems a little more

1437
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: neutral and is there to potentially be manipulated by either side.

1438
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,919
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean throughout the movie you see different actors

1439
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 3: essentially the two main camps in the movie, the scientists

1440
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 3: and the military people both trying to use the press

1441
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 3: to their advantage. Yeah, they are trying to one up

1442
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 3: the other camp on their appeals to the press, so

1443
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 3: they can get the press on their side, so they

1444
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 3: can get the public on their side.

1445
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the press is just hungry. Yeah, they just

1446
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: got to put out papers.

1447
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 3: So there are some developments after this. During some additional

1448
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 3: work in the tunnel, the ship once again begins to

1449
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 3: vibrate like the time it did when it you know,

1450
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 3: made Colonel breenpuke and the drill operator Sladin, seems to

1451
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 3: become possessed. He like something comes over him. His eyes

1452
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 3: go glassy, and he runs out into the street, seeming

1453
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 3: along the way to randomly blast and levitate objects with

1454
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 3: his mind. He turns into sort of carry like he's

1455
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:23,440
Speaker 3: a zombie carry on the loose, until he finally collapses

1456
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 3: in a churchyard and is taken in by a priest.

1457
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 3: Quator Mass and Judd follow him. After this, they come

1458
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 3: to collect him and Sladin explains how while he was

1459
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:38,759
Speaker 3: in his possessed state, he had visions he saw insect

1460
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 3: like creatures with devil horns against a brown sky leaping

1461
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 3: in the air, up and up and up, and he

1462
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 3: had a feeling that damnation was upon him and he

1463
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 3: had to escape this place, whatever it was. Of course,

1464
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:55,759
Speaker 3: you know, in describing his environment, quator Mass is clearly

1465
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 3: like he's talking about Mars. He had visions of Mars.

1466
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 3: So it's like it's almost like vision from this alien

1467
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 3: planet have been they're being transmitted now through the ship

1468
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 3: somehow into us, and these visions are of a dying

1469
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 3: planet and a panicking race of creatures that are at

1470
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 3: their end and trying to get out anyway. After this incident,

1471
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 3: quator Mass has an idea. He thinks he can prove

1472
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:23,880
Speaker 3: what the ship really is by using, coming back to it,

1473
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 3: the Roney analysis, the helmet, the machine that the paleontologists

1474
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 3: used to read minds with a helmet connected to a

1475
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 3: bunch of wires. So what they're going to do looks

1476
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 3: like this. They're going to put quator Mass himself inside

1477
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 3: the alien ship and they're going to try to get

1478
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,679
Speaker 3: it to transmit images of the Martian Apocalypse to him

1479
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 3: while he's wearing the helmet, so that his thoughts will

1480
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 3: be sent to a TV screen where they will be

1481
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 3: recorded for later playback. Huh yeah, yeah, just stick with us.

1482
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 3: They try this, but the ship, for whatever reason, decides

1483
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 3: to transmit to Barber Judd instead of quater Mass, and

1484
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 3: the images it sends into her mind's eye are horrifying.

1485
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 3: She is shaken, and quator Mass records them and then

1486
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 3: takes these images to playback for this group of government

1487
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 3: high command. They show horrible violence on the surface of Mars.

1488
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: This is one element where when we actually see the footage,

1489
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 3: you can't really see all that much and it doesn't

1490
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 3: look all that great. I kind of wish it could

1491
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 3: have been more visually appealing here, but yeah, it is

1492
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 3: implied at least that what they see does look horrifying.

1493
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:41,760
Speaker 3: It's Martians killing Martians, and Q interprets what is being

1494
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 3: shown here as a ritualistic mass murder where Martians believed

1495
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 3: that they had to purge their society of mutations. The

1496
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 3: government dudes are just like, nah.

1497
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: Whatever, Yeah, they don't see the threat yet.

1498
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 3: Anyway, we're starting to collect even more strange pieces that

1499
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 3: there's something more sinister going on with the Martian society,

1500
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 3: with what its culture means, with what it's trying to

1501
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 3: sort of deliver down to us as its ancestors. It

1502
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 3: seems to include not just sort of you know, uplifting us,

1503
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 3: like giving us higher intelligence, but also maybe implanting kind

1504
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 3: of little sleeper cell agents in our brain that can

1505
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 3: be awakened by the beacon of this ship, in which

1506
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 3: we have visions of Mars. We are possessed by images

1507
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 3: of these kind of you know, purge like activities, and

1508
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 3: that it also awakens latent powers beyond just regular human intelligence,

1509
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 3: stuff that is apparently there in human beings but is

1510
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,639
Speaker 3: not normally accessible unless we're being activated by the signal

1511
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 3: from the ship, and those powers include things like telekinesis. Yeah. Yeah, anyway,

1512
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 3: so we get to the climax and there is a

1513
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 3: crowd gathered for the unveiling of the ship. But uh oh,

1514
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 3: there's a problem. While they're getting things ready and the

1515
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 3: crowd is assembled, they've got this big electrical generator that

1516
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 3: they're running a wire through the ship for some reason,

1517
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:19,080
Speaker 3: and it I think a wire makes contact and it

1518
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 3: starts inadvertently feeding power into the ship, and something changes.

1519
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 3: The ship has had little blips now and then, but

1520
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 3: now that it's getting a strong power source, the ship

1521
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 3: comes fully online and it is activated now and it's

1522
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 3: doing something way more than it was before. The ship

1523
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 3: powers up and the assembled crowd panics and seemingly starts

1524
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 3: to go mad, running out of the tunnel into the

1525
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:46,759
Speaker 3: streets above.

1526
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where it really becomes really becomes essential.

1527
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 1: Something that again we've already begun to learn is that

1528
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:55,600
Speaker 1: some people are affected and some people are not, and

1529
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 1: some people are turned into psychic space zombies, others are not.

1530
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 3: Most people are affected, it seems there are a few exceptions.

1531
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 3: So most people are affected, and they turn into this

1532
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 3: panicking crowd that's running around with you know, glazed eyes,

1533
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,439
Speaker 3: just staring wildly ahead. We don't know exactly what the

1534
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 3: intentions of the possessed crowd members are yet, we'll learn

1535
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 3: in a moment. First of all, we see that when

1536
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 3: the ship activates, Breen is seemingly hypnotized. He's lured to

1537
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 3: it as if by a magnet. He like walks up

1538
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 3: to it and then just sort of kneels down in

1539
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 3: front of it, where he will be cooked alive by

1540
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 3: the energy radiating off of the ship. Yeah.

1541
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we just we cut to another scene and

1542
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 1: eventually we cut back to him and he's just been

1543
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: microwave there and then he just tumbles on into the pit.

1544
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 3: So what happens to the crowds. The crowds, we witness

1545
01:24:54,560 --> 01:25:03,560
Speaker 3: them seemingly turn into these groups of psychic manic hunters,

1546
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 3: prowling the streets, finding random other humans and unleashing telekinetic

1547
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 3: bombardments of broken concrete and rubble against their former neighbors

1548
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 3: and friends. And they're standing there just kind of stock still,

1549
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 3: staring at them and launching with their minds all of

1550
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 3: these bombardments on them. What why is that happening? And

1551
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 3: then then there's also a direct confrontation between quator Mass

1552
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:31,879
Speaker 3: and Ronie. Quator Mass has been seized up in the crowds,

1553
01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:36,679
Speaker 3: he's one of them. He's running around. Ronnie grabs hold

1554
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 3: of quater Mass and pulls him into like into a

1555
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:42,759
Speaker 3: cafe off of the street. And at first quator Mass

1556
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 3: tries to kill Ronie. He's like, you know, he's reaching

1557
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 3: as if to strangle him, but somehow he is able

1558
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 3: to fight off the mind control and he snaps out

1559
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 3: of it.

1560
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: He gets him a whiskey.

1561
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:58,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right, Yeah, they do have some medicinal whiskey. Strangely,

1562
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 3: Roney seems completely unaffected. This is what you were alluding to.

1563
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 3: He doesn't understand why everyone else seems to have gone mad,

1564
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 3: and they discuss things. Rob let me know if you

1565
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:12,519
Speaker 3: had the same understanding that I did. It seems that

1566
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 3: what they land on is that while we are all

1567
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:21,799
Speaker 3: humans are descended from the Martian altered apes of Earth,

1568
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:27,640
Speaker 3: perhaps some of us have since then mutated so that

1569
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 3: the few that have mutated no longer possess the Martian

1570
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 3: mind control gene, leaving those few mutants outside the psychic

1571
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 3: influence of the Beacon Ship. And Rony just happens to

1572
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 3: be one of those mutants. Those mutants are the people

1573
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 3: who the crowds of psychic thralls in the streets are

1574
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 3: now hunting to destroy with these telekinetic bombardments. And that

1575
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 3: would be consistent with quator Mass's earlier interpretation of the

1576
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 3: visions of Mars as like the Martians hunting each other

1577
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:01,839
Speaker 3: mutants within their own hives.

1578
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: M Yeah, So the idea here would be this is

1579
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: something that was an important value to the Martians that

1580
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 1: was instilled into their operation here on Earth again and

1581
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: seemingly with perhaps not nefarious intentions, because the idea, I

1582
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: guess is, Hey, we're going to establish this population that

1583
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 1: we have created to some degree in our image, and

1584
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: we don't want it to get too corrupted over time.

1585
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: It's going to need we need to have this bush

1586
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: sort of self prune over the ensuing millennia.

1587
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,720
Speaker 3: Right, so when the ship gets enough power applied to it,

1588
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:42,560
Speaker 3: it can turn into this beacon and activate the crowds

1589
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 3: to attack their mutant cohort. Now, one thing I think

1590
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 3: is worth noting is that quator Mass is our protagonist here.

1591
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,559
Speaker 3: But quator Mass, while he's he does have some mental

1592
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 3: fortitude and is able in moments to kind of fight

1593
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 3: off the influence of the ship, he is overall still

1594
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 3: susceptible to it. He's not one of the mutants who's

1595
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 3: immune to it. He's like he's potentially part of the

1596
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:10,600
Speaker 3: attacking crowd. Yeah. Yeah. But after this, there's another development,

1597
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 3: which is that an image rises over the skyline of

1598
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:20,799
Speaker 3: the city. There appears a gigantic, monstrous projection, a white,

1599
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 3: glowing tower of energy in the shape of one of

1600
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:30,439
Speaker 3: these insectoid martian devils. And together quator Mass and Roni,

1601
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 3: they behold this projection and they figure out what it means,

1602
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 3: and they come up with a plan. I love this is.

1603
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 3: I think this is like such a weird out of nowhere,

1604
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 3: almost beautiful weaving of science themes and demon lore. I

1605
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:48,719
Speaker 3: can't remember which one of them suggested. I think maybe

1606
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 3: it's Quator Mass who says that the demonic forces of

1607
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:54,839
Speaker 3: the world were always said to be vulnerable to cold iron.

1608
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 3: What if that's because the devil was a projection of

1609
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 3: electrical energy and it could be discharged to the ground

1610
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:05,719
Speaker 3: by contact with iron.

1611
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love this as well, because it just it

1612
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: fits nicely. It's wild, but it fits nicely, snugly between

1613
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 1: sci fi and demonic lore.

1614
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing. So that's what they come up with, and

1615
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 3: they put a plan in place where Rony is going

1616
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 3: to climb up on a crane, it's big iron crane

1617
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 3: and knock it into the towering devil figure. And the

1618
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:36,600
Speaker 3: plan works. It does indeed discharge. After the energy is dissipated,

1619
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,799
Speaker 3: the madness suddenly subsides and, like the crowd, seemingly revert

1620
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:44,440
Speaker 3: to normal, and we get to see our remaining two protagonists,

1621
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 3: Quator Mass and Barber Judd. They're just left reeling in

1622
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 3: the street, catching their breath and trying to make sense

1623
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 3: of all that has happened it to them, And I

1624
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 3: think we can infer trying to make sense of what

1625
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 3: they are. They're like, what what kind of creature am I?

1626
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, this is such a great and admittedly downbeat

1627
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:09,639
Speaker 1: way to close out the picture. I mean, the threat

1628
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: has been defeated, but the knowledge is still there, and

1629
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 1: they're having and not only like I think for these

1630
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: two characters, like two different levels. Like they were they

1631
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 1: were just at each other's throats, you know, and and

1632
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:24,240
Speaker 1: having to fight, and now they're out there shaken out

1633
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 1: of that, and then they're also having to you know,

1634
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 1: just roll with all of these revelations that are in

1635
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:32,880
Speaker 1: play now. But yeah, they're they're they're next. They're near

1636
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 1: each other and the credits are rolling, but it's still

1637
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 1: like live footage, you know, it's not a freeze frame.

1638
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 1: But they can't quite look at each other either, you know,

1639
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:45,719
Speaker 1: they're just kind of both staring off to the side,

1640
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 1: staring at the ground, staring into the middle distance. And

1641
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,559
Speaker 1: the music is quite quite haunting and downbeat.

1642
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 3: Here. It's an ending that actually very much reminds me

1643
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 3: of the tone once again of John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness,

1644
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:04,520
Speaker 3: because it's like the idiot incursion of evil has been defeated,

1645
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:08,640
Speaker 3: but you just don't know where that leaves us, Like

1646
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 3: how vulnerable are we still presumably given the all that's

1647
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 3: been established in the story, Like there could be another

1648
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 3: ship somewhere that maybe that activates us and we turn

1649
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:22,880
Speaker 3: into these raging telekinetic assassin mobs again.

1650
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's so many unanswered questions. So it's it's

1651
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:31,679
Speaker 1: quite a haunting ending, and indeed just a tremendous picture,

1652
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,759
Speaker 1: especially especially the early goings of its as the mystery

1653
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: is beginning to build. But just the pacing and the

1654
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: energy of the entire picture is great, Like it's just

1655
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: a fun ride and you never find yourself bored because

1656
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:48,920
Speaker 1: it keeps this a picture that keeps transforming itself as well.

1657
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:53,720
Speaker 1: Each revelation brings an additional complications and brings us to

1658
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: this amazing climax that you really couldn't predict if you

1659
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about the picture when we first venture

1660
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 1: into the scenario.

1661
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 3: I was just trying to think, wait a minute, Between

1662
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:12,080
Speaker 3: quator Mass and Breen, whose vision is vindicated in the

1663
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 3: end by what they discover, I guess I would say

1664
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:19,719
Speaker 3: neither one, because quator Mass has what you know. Breen

1665
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 3: describes as this naive view of just like peaceful cooperation.

1666
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 3: He thinks that quator Mass is not cognizant enough of threats.

1667
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 3: So I think you could argue in the end that

1668
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 3: that was true initially, Like there was indeed a real

1669
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 3: threat here, but the threat was not an external enemy

1670
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,719
Speaker 3: like this. The threat is something in ourselves that can

1671
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 3: be activated to turn us into something we don't want

1672
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:50,960
Speaker 3: to be.

1673
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's rather thought provoking really, so, yeah, you

1674
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,880
Speaker 1: can really see why this picture was so influential. You know,

1675
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 1: it really really turned people heads, presented some ideas that

1676
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: you know, we're present in science fiction and literature, but

1677
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 1: maybe had not been explored really on this level that

1678
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:13,680
Speaker 1: much in an actual cinema. So it's in to do

1679
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 1: so too in a way that also has plenty of

1680
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:21,479
Speaker 1: horror colors to the palette as well. You know you're

1681
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 1: mentioning the John Carpenter influence. We should also have mentioned that, like,

1682
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: there are a couple of other overt references to this.

1683
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:31,759
Speaker 1: In the Mouth of Madness features hobbs End as a location,

1684
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:35,679
Speaker 1: the hobbs End Horror and so forth as a direct

1685
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:38,519
Speaker 1: nod to this film. And you could make a case

1686
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 1: too for John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars, because that's essentially

1687
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with here, Ghosts of Mars, brilliant.

1688
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 3: Well, I can't say anything after that, all right, Yeah,

1689
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:51,600
Speaker 3: that does it for me.

1690
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a fun one. This was really this

1691
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: was really nice to re explore this picture, which again

1692
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:59,479
Speaker 1: you know, had a strong effect on me when I

1693
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,560
Speaker 1: first saw it many many years ago and still absolutely

1694
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 1: holds up. This is this is great science fiction. So

1695
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 1: I encourage everyone to seek it out if it all

1696
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:10,800
Speaker 1: interests you, although hopefully if you've made it this far

1697
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 1: through our discussion of the plot, I hope you've already

1698
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:18,639
Speaker 1: seen it. So as always write in concerning your thoughts

1699
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: about quator Mass in the Pit, as well as you know,

1700
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: suggestions for episodes you'd like to see in the future,

1701
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 1: because one of the reasons we finally got around to

1702
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 1: doing this particular film is because listeners kept writing in

1703
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 1: about it. So it doesn't always make it happen, but

1704
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: it can certainly proud us in the right direction. Just

1705
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:38,839
Speaker 1: a reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily

1706
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 1: a science and culture podcast with core episodes on two

1707
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Speaker 1: season Thursdays, but on Fridays we set aside most serious

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Speaker 1: concerns to just talk about a weird film here on

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Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema. If you would like to follow us

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Speaker 1: on social well, we're on all the normal social media accounts,

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Speaker 1: but we're also on Letterbox as weird House, and that's

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Speaker 1: a great place to check out a list of all

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Speaker 1: the movies we've covered over the years, and sometimes a

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Speaker 1: peek ahead it was coming up next.

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Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

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Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

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Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

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Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

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Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

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Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.