Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. I'm super
Speaker 1: stoked and scared for this episode. UM. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking today about discipline. That's a trigger word for some people.
Speaker 1: Some people like that words, people don't like that word.
Speaker 1: But let's We're going to talk about setting limits for
Speaker 1: young toddlers, UM, and about how babies they grow when
Speaker 1: they move around and they start to explore the world
Speaker 1: around them, but they are also simultaneously testing their boundaries.
Speaker 1: And this is a massive topic, as all you guys know,
Speaker 1: and there are no easy answers, is what it sounds
Speaker 1: like to me. UM. So I have three awesome guests
Speaker 1: here today, UM, who have different approaches for helping kids
Speaker 1: navigate all through their world safely. First, I want to
Speaker 1: welcome Dr Rebecca shreg Hershberg. I'm gonna just call you.
Speaker 1: Can I call you Rebecca or do we call you doctor?
Speaker 1: Can call me Dr sharg Hersberg at all time? No,
Speaker 1: Dr shragg Hershberg, Okay, So Rebecca. She is a child
Speaker 1: psychologist and a mother herself. UM. She's also the author
Speaker 1: of an upcoming book called The Tantrum Survival Guide. There's
Speaker 1: such a part of me that's like, do I have
Speaker 1: to get that book? I'm gonna have to get that book, right, God,
Speaker 1: But isn't I'm just gonna have an angel who's never
Speaker 1: gonna have a dangrum. No, okay um. And she's also
Speaker 1: the founder of Little House Calls Psychological Services p LC.
Speaker 1: And then our next guest is Kristen Eliasburg. She is
Speaker 1: a RYE instructor and a mom and RYE stands for
Speaker 1: Resources for Infant Edge Cars. Yes, edu caring was the
Speaker 1: word that Maga Gerber, who founded RYE, coined to describe
Speaker 1: what she feels we are doing as parents, which is
Speaker 1: educating through how we care for our children. Yes, and
Speaker 1: RYE has been really cool. I came to the RYE
Speaker 1: method because I nannied a family that I went to
Speaker 1: the babies classes RYE classes, and then I had a
Speaker 1: baby and I've been taking them also with my son. Um. So,
Speaker 1: Kristen is a certified Right Associate as we said, and
Speaker 1: she's a mentor and she's the founder of Present Parenting
Speaker 1: where she teaches the RYE parent Infant Guidance classes. And
Speaker 1: then last, but definitely not least, we have the one,
Speaker 1: the only Lorie Gelman. God, more. She is a mom
Speaker 1: of two and she is the author of the book
Speaker 1: that I'm currently reading called Class Mom. And as you
Speaker 1: guys all know listening to Katie's crib, I really rely
Speaker 1: on humor getting through this motherhood thing and this book
Speaker 1: provides so much of that in my life. So thank
Speaker 1: you Laurie for that my pleasure. So let's get started
Speaker 1: and talking about this. First of all, this word discipline, okay, uh?
Speaker 1: Is that even the right word to use? And you
Speaker 1: can have you guys can agree to disagree, like that's
Speaker 1: all fine. Yeah, what do you think, Rebecca, what do
Speaker 1: you think the word discipline? I don't like or really
Speaker 1: use the word discipline. I frequently it's where I meet
Speaker 1: people to have these conversations because they come in with
Speaker 1: that word. But I think, um, I think it's much more.
Speaker 1: As you said in your introduction about how toddlers and
Speaker 1: young kids explore the world and helping them do that
Speaker 1: and navigate that in a safe and nurturing way. I
Speaker 1: do think that limits are a very important part of that,
Speaker 1: helping kids figure out where are the boundaries, And I
Speaker 1: think knowing where their limits are helps them figure out
Speaker 1: who they are, who, what their relationships are. I think
Speaker 1: it's a really important part of social emotional development. Okay,
Speaker 1: so discipline is not a word that you're a fan of.
Speaker 1: I don't look young kids cook. I mean again, it's
Speaker 1: not a it's not a trigger word for me. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe
Speaker 1: someone used that word. However, in my thinking and my writing,
Speaker 1: it's not It's not a word that I think is
Speaker 1: helpful in conceptualizing kids at this age and what they
Speaker 1: need and what they benefit from, and how we best
Speaker 1: help promote the behaviors we want to see. Sure, and
Speaker 1: what do you think, Kristen, Um, I would tend to agree. Um,
Speaker 1: I think. I actually was talking amongst some Raye colleagues
Speaker 1: about this upcoming podcast. What they got to say, Well,
Speaker 1: Debra Solomon, who was the former executive director at RYE,
Speaker 1: had a really interesting take, which was to look at
Speaker 1: the root of the word, which is disciple, so that
Speaker 1: it's not that I think the word discipline, I think
Speaker 1: immediately conjures up this sort of like I am the
Speaker 1: authority and you are the being that must be chastised
Speaker 1: kind of It's like, guy, how do you scold somebody
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it rarely has a sort of very
Speaker 1: positive connotation. On the other hand, disciple is more like,
Speaker 1: you know, we are modeling for our toddlers and young
Speaker 1: children and our older children, um, the behavior that we
Speaker 1: want to inspire. So you know, if you think of
Speaker 1: it that way, I mean, certainly limit setting is a
Speaker 1: is a better word to use, but it also kind
Speaker 1: of gives it a new another perspective on what we're doing,
Speaker 1: because it's really about our relationship with our children and
Speaker 1: our connection with them. It's not about how we can
Speaker 1: get them to do certain things or how do we
Speaker 1: you know, scold them or punish them or you know,
Speaker 1: it's really inspiring the behavior that we want them to have.
Speaker 1: Love that what do you think, Well, I think I'm
Speaker 1: in way over my head. No you are not. You
Speaker 1: and I both were the moms, but we're the moms
Speaker 1: who were just like, call it what you want. It's
Speaker 1: it's basically forming your child and showing them the way
Speaker 1: and giving them the ideas of what they're going to
Speaker 1: grow up with. And I you know, discipline, it's just
Speaker 1: a word really and and you know, my grandmother used
Speaker 1: to be like, where is my stick? And like that
Speaker 1: was we knew that was like we have a big trouble.
Speaker 1: So thank goodness, we don't do that anymore. But I
Speaker 1: think that no matter what you call it, it's just
Speaker 1: it's just molding the kids into what the human beings
Speaker 1: they should be. Sure, sure, Rebecca, look what do you add?
Speaker 1: They so I'll be the year. So what do I
Speaker 1: have to look forward to in the next couple of years?
Speaker 1: Like what are the typical what's the common acting out
Speaker 1: at this age? Like what what are what do you
Speaker 1: see like when parents come with you, Like what are
Speaker 1: they freaking out about? So many things? Um, I mean
Speaker 1: I think God, I think typical quote unquote tantrums begin.
Speaker 1: They can begin as early as twelve months. But it
Speaker 1: also depends on how we define tantrums. And I certainly
Speaker 1: talk about that. We all use that word kind of
Speaker 1: left and right. I think of tantrums, and I define
Speaker 1: tantrums as expressions of emotion that are perhaps not um
Speaker 1: well regulated. And a lot comes down to sort of
Speaker 1: where kids brains are at this stage, and they're prefrontal cortex,
Speaker 1: which is the part of the brain that plans and
Speaker 1: judges and can think about how they want to act
Speaker 1: in certain ways is not at all developed. Um. There's
Speaker 1: a metaphor I love, which is that it's like an
Speaker 1: air Your toddlers are like airport traffic control centers without
Speaker 1: the traffic control like there like planes flying in and out,
Speaker 1: no one knows. And and so you see kids that
Speaker 1: are really impulsive, that are really emotional, that are really egocentric,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times parents get really frustrated with
Speaker 1: those behaviors and expect that kids won't do them because
Speaker 1: they tell them not to do that, but their brains
Speaker 1: don't know how to do them and aren't capable of
Speaker 1: doing them. And that's I would say often a really
Speaker 1: based starting point for families is where is your kid developmentally?
Speaker 1: So for example, hol be may um you know, you say,
Speaker 1: don't you know, don't throw that spoon, and so then
Speaker 1: he kind of hits you a little bit and it's
Speaker 1: sort of like, don't hit well, he's already he didn't
Speaker 1: think like, oh I'm angry at mom, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: hit her. It's impulsive, it's an emotional reaction. It's like
Speaker 1: saying to you you know, um, you know, Katie, go
Speaker 1: go And now I'm of course not under pressure I'm
Speaker 1: not going to whatever thing that you're really not capable
Speaker 1: of doing, you know, like go say a paragraph in
Speaker 1: Greek now, and you're going to be like, watch this,
Speaker 1: I didn't do it, But no, because it's you. Literally
Speaker 1: you can't do it and you're not capable of doing it,
Speaker 1: and so no matter how many times I tell you
Speaker 1: to do it, you're not. When does rational thought, I
Speaker 1: guess that's when when does that come into play? Like
Speaker 1: when the mother of teenagers usually answer well, I'm still waiting,
Speaker 1: not by I mean full full rationality, but I don't
Speaker 1: think you can. You can rationalize with kids until they're
Speaker 1: at least and I'm not an expert on name, but
Speaker 1: for my kids it was, and it was the negotiating
Speaker 1: started maybe at four, where they could see the cause
Speaker 1: and effect and they could see the benefits of doing
Speaker 1: it my way versus their way. And it depends on mood.
Speaker 1: It's all the mood depending. None of us can rationalize
Speaker 1: when we're hungry sometime excited or hungry and tired or
Speaker 1: or frustrated. You know, when when my husband tries to
Speaker 1: problem solve when I'm still like really ramped up, I
Speaker 1: can't hear that. You know, we it depends on kind
Speaker 1: of what is going on in all of our brains.
Speaker 1: What I will say is that executive functioning and that
Speaker 1: prefntal cortex has been shown not to be fully developed
Speaker 1: until twenties. And that's why, Holy, I know, but it's
Speaker 1: why there's so much I mean, not to go off
Speaker 1: on a tangent. You can edit it out, but it's
Speaker 1: why there's so much debate about like how we treat
Speaker 1: adolescence in the criminal justice system, like their brains are
Speaker 1: not fully So we can leave that over here and
Speaker 1: talk about it on another podcast. No, that's very it's
Speaker 1: it's very helpful. So I mean in super I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe I had a child.
Speaker 1: Um um, so how do you go about setting limits?
Speaker 1: Like I know what makes me unco I know I
Speaker 1: have a mommy instinct, gut right, Like I know there
Speaker 1: are certain family members I have that will go unnamed,
Speaker 1: that definitely have like shaken their kids in front of
Speaker 1: me in public when they acted out, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not for me, you know, or like some more
Speaker 1: old school way of disciplining or whatever. You know. My
Speaker 1: husband comes from a family that was like super old
Speaker 1: school and like he got spanked, and like my family
Speaker 1: is like so like hippie dippy, and like my I
Speaker 1: was never even grounded, Like every time I got in trouble,
Speaker 1: it ended up like okay, you can go to your
Speaker 1: room and think about what you've done. And then my
Speaker 1: dad would come in and said it then in my
Speaker 1: bed and he would cry more than I would, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like he would be hysterical about like,
Speaker 1: let's discuss maybe a better choice would have been X,
Speaker 1: Y or Z or whatever. But did that frustrate you
Speaker 1: at all? And were you at some point like just
Speaker 1: yell at me and get it over with it? Just
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like I deserve it,
Speaker 1: give me, give me a punishment. I'm like, no, I
Speaker 1: was perfect. No, I I was always one of those
Speaker 1: kids that it meant far more to me if I
Speaker 1: it was far worse to disappoint my parents than it
Speaker 1: was to get in trouble like I was, so like
Speaker 1: you know, just I I really you know if I
Speaker 1: disappointed my family like that felt shitty, Like that was
Speaker 1: an interaction right there, like you were probably temperamentally going
Speaker 1: to lean in that direction and then you had a
Speaker 1: dad that would respond in such a way that sure,
Speaker 1: of course it was worse. And so I would say
Speaker 1: all those quis, I mean, there are, without a doubt
Speaker 1: some basic principles and I'm sure, but but I would say,
Speaker 1: without a doubt, it's about your individual kid and you
Speaker 1: as a parent and how that fits together. So it's
Speaker 1: different for every kid. But like, what about these I
Speaker 1: used to be I was a nanny for like fifteen years, right,
Speaker 1: and like some like I baby sat in a Rye
Speaker 1: household right where if a kid had a tantrum, it
Speaker 1: was very much a lot about I see that you're
Speaker 1: very upset. I hear that you're upset, and I would
Speaker 1: be there for the child and just really go through
Speaker 1: it with them, and it was over in a few minutes,
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't that big of a deal and I
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to change the current thing. I also worked
Speaker 1: in households where time outs were like a big thing,
Speaker 1: you know, And I I don't know where I fall.
Speaker 1: I think I lean definitely more towards the Rye method,
Speaker 1: but I know that my husband don't. Just to get
Speaker 1: back to your comment about well, why did I have
Speaker 1: a child, and get you onto the moment positive side
Speaker 1: of that question. You know, when you think about the
Speaker 1: upcoming years, when which will be full of limit testing
Speaker 1: and and and every day there will be more of it,
Speaker 1: and and you will often feel like you wish there weren't.
Speaker 1: But when you think about it, if you just kind
Speaker 1: of flip the coin a little bit and think about, well,
Speaker 1: these are opportunities for us to build our connection because
Speaker 1: he's limits. He's testing those limits because he wants to
Speaker 1: have me set them. And by setting them, I'm giving
Speaker 1: him the example of how to behave in the world.
Speaker 1: How I can be the sort of commander of the ship,
Speaker 1: keep things safe for him, make his world, you know,
Speaker 1: a functioning place, because I will set the limit. And
Speaker 1: I think Umlur is resolutely right that ye re gelman
Speaker 1: is Lorie is absolutely right that there are there are
Speaker 1: They're asking you to just say this is the limit,
Speaker 1: and you can't go any further, and I won't let
Speaker 1: you go any further. And that's what they want to hear,
Speaker 1: and that's what they need to hear. And by doing that,
Speaker 1: you are establishing again reconnecting with them. So I have
Speaker 1: to change it in my brain, to change it in
Speaker 1: my brain. You're you know, we're not on different teams.
Speaker 1: You guys know, and you need to do You need
Speaker 1: to show the united front that is the same. They
Speaker 1: will sense they can smell a crack in the armor.
Speaker 1: So you always have a united front with the parents there.
Speaker 1: You meant that you and your kid were on the
Speaker 1: same team, and then you're seeing you in your I
Speaker 1: met you and your kid, I mean, because this is
Speaker 1: the same team. I mean the joyful parts of parenting,
Speaker 1: we all know what those are. But you know, also
Speaker 1: the setting limits is almost more important and can you
Speaker 1: know in some way sort of deeply more joyful because
Speaker 1: you're being strong, You're meeting your child where he is.
Speaker 1: Like I use the metaphor often of like a fourteen
Speaker 1: year old doesn't have a curfew, who deep down wants
Speaker 1: a curfew, and that kid is going to show off
Speaker 1: to all his friends that he doesn't have a curfew,
Speaker 1: and that kid's going to in the moment be like,
Speaker 1: this is freaking awesome. I get to stay out till
Speaker 1: three in the morning and like pizza, and then at
Speaker 1: three in the morning he's by himself, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I just wish my parents would step up and be
Speaker 1: the grown ups, and part of being the grown up
Speaker 1: is setting a limit, and it can be over time,
Speaker 1: really anxiety provoking for kids to feel like they hold
Speaker 1: so much power in the equation that there. It's not
Speaker 1: to say that limits can't be nurturing and collaborating and whatever,
Speaker 1: but they also do need to know there's an overall
Speaker 1: structure in place that they're not so powerful that they
Speaker 1: can break, because that's terrifying as a four year old.
Speaker 1: If you think you're steering the shop at four, it's,
Speaker 1: over time, a pretty damaging place to live. I was
Speaker 1: raised by wolves. I mean I was the sixth child.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, was literally I would I would come
Speaker 1: home from a three nights sleep out when I was
Speaker 1: in seventh grade, um like with the school, and I
Speaker 1: my mother forgot I was coming home and she didn't
Speaker 1: pick me up at the school. So I had to
Speaker 1: lug all my stuff home and I walk into the
Speaker 1: kids and she's like, oh, your home, did you have
Speaker 1: a good time? I mean, I hated that part of
Speaker 1: my life. I hate I loved the kids who you know,
Speaker 1: whose parents were always on them about this and that.
Speaker 1: I envied those kids. And now when my daughters begged
Speaker 1: me not to go to their volleyball games or their
Speaker 1: cross games or whatever. I'm like, I don't give a
Speaker 1: ship what you want every single game because no one ever,
Speaker 1: no one ever came to my games. It would literally
Speaker 1: be oh did you win? Like nobody cared, and I
Speaker 1: want I don't want my either girl to ever feel
Speaker 1: like I don't care about what's going on in their life.
Speaker 1: That's so nice. So can you give me each of
Speaker 1: you guys, like specific ways that adults said. I know
Speaker 1: it's different on the age, but like how you would
Speaker 1: set a limit, like is a time out of thing?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it? Like? No, you can't do that?
Speaker 1: What about the word no? Like teach me what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to or less? Um you're looking at read your book,
Speaker 1: read your book, read your books obviously. Um, I think
Speaker 1: that there's some bait. Okay, So when you talk about
Speaker 1: time outs and you talk about nurturing and being empathic,
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about what we're talking about. Like
Speaker 1: if your child is having an emotional reaction to not
Speaker 1: getting another cookie, that is an emotional reaction that wouldn't
Speaker 1: ever marrit a time out by I mean, if we're
Speaker 1: talking about specifically tantrums, even people who use time outs.
Speaker 1: Timeouts are one of, let me just say, one of
Speaker 1: the most widely misunderstood and misapplied concepts of all time.
Speaker 1: And I'm happy to go through why if anybody's interested
Speaker 1: in hearing that. I think they can be and have
Speaker 1: been shown over and over and over again to be
Speaker 1: very useful and effective if done in a very specific
Speaker 1: way and context. Um, they've gone off the rails, and
Speaker 1: then they've been misunderstood and then oh yeah, you mean
Speaker 1: like making the kids sit in like a naughty chair
Speaker 1: and counting down for a certain amount of time for
Speaker 1: crying too loud, which is never what I mean. That's
Speaker 1: sort of it's meant to be like for a discreet
Speaker 1: behavior that you and your child have been able to
Speaker 1: decide upon in advance in a home with a lot
Speaker 1: of warm and love and time in all the time,
Speaker 1: a very quick taking away of attention for a very
Speaker 1: concrete period of time when that child gets bored because
Speaker 1: they can't do anything like that. That it's and it's
Speaker 1: We had that in my house. It was called the
Speaker 1: naughty chair. It was fucking hilarious. We loved it. We
Speaker 1: had two chairs like you and your husband. No, my
Speaker 1: parents like they're you know, they were making it up
Speaker 1: on the spot. They were like five years old when
Speaker 1: they had us, and they just like really didn't know
Speaker 1: what they were doing and was probably yeah, oh, my
Speaker 1: dad's such an emotional being, like he's so open, and
Speaker 1: my mom is. Um, they were just both not great
Speaker 1: at the word discipline like they I mean, we had
Speaker 1: curfews and all of that stuff. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: if we were really if it was if my brother
Speaker 1: and I were super mean to each other, was normally
Speaker 1: where we would get into big trouble. You know, like
Speaker 1: you can't say shut up to each other, you can't
Speaker 1: call each other stupid, you can't hit each other, you know,
Speaker 1: things like that. And when that would get out of control,
Speaker 1: it would say, okay, the two of you have to
Speaker 1: go sit in those shares and face the wall fall.
Speaker 1: We would sit there for like four minutes, and then
Speaker 1: by the end of the four or five minutes would
Speaker 1: be hysterical laughing at each other and it would be
Speaker 1: over and sort of quelched. But um, I guess that
Speaker 1: was their equivalent of sort of a time out, like
Speaker 1: a break in the in the cycle. Little kids so
Speaker 1: much We talked about this a little bit before the
Speaker 1: mics were on um and and Chris and I think
Speaker 1: you were here. Who setting kids up for success? I
Speaker 1: mean so much, I would say, is being able to
Speaker 1: anticipate on the front end what your child is like,
Speaker 1: what you are like, what are your hot button issues?
Speaker 1: Like you'll probably notice as Albi gets a little older
Speaker 1: there are things that he does that make you insane
Speaker 1: and your husband's sitting there like perfectly okay. Then he
Speaker 1: does something that you thought was funny, and your husband's
Speaker 1: about to lose his mind. And so it's figuring out
Speaker 1: like who am I? Who am I with my partner?
Speaker 1: Who is my kid? Not in this dog, not in
Speaker 1: this like crazy shrinky like after take notes and understanding,
Speaker 1: but just myke you know my kid gets cranky at
Speaker 1: X time of day, Like if I bring a snack,
Speaker 1: I can avoid a lot of the you know, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of that kind of cutting it off of
Speaker 1: the past, like knowing that maybe your kids having a
Speaker 1: meltdown because you brought them to this thing so the
Speaker 1: nap was skipped. So there we're setting them up for
Speaker 1: a total possible ship storm, right of course, And it
Speaker 1: can be something even from last week. You know, we
Speaker 1: had we had family in town for the whole week
Speaker 1: and everything was great and everyone was having fun, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, my my son is doing these
Speaker 1: strange things that he's never done before. And you won't
Speaker 1: behave in this you know the ways that he has
Speaker 1: behaved before, and I wonder what that's about. It's like, oh, right,
Speaker 1: he's had to be on and be behaving list and
Speaker 1: he's had a completely different environment for the whole for
Speaker 1: the whole week, which and all of it was fine.
Speaker 1: You're like, well that went well, but you know he
Speaker 1: may be showing the signs of it a week later.
Speaker 1: That's really good to read. The book Mama, Mama, Lama, Lama,
Speaker 1: mad At Mama. Yeah, that's a brilliant book because it
Speaker 1: really does. It makes so much sense. Like he was
Speaker 1: just about taking nap and then he had to wake
Speaker 1: up because he had to go, and so all these
Speaker 1: things are coming into play and he finally has a
Speaker 1: meltdown and the mother is trying to figure out why.
Speaker 1: But you know in the book they spelled out so beautifully,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's going to happen to every kid.
Speaker 1: There's no child that does not have a meltdown at
Speaker 1: some point, and there's no person like I had yesterday.
Speaker 1: But I do think but that's important, Like we're human,
Speaker 1: you know, they are having emotions, and we hold them
Speaker 1: to a standard. You know when I often talk to
Speaker 1: parents like what are you like when you're hungry? And
Speaker 1: some parents are like, I'm fine, I'm a straight up asshole.
Speaker 1: Like I always say, kids only act the way adults
Speaker 1: would if it was socially acceptable. And I write something
Speaker 1: and I also someone I think it's really again, there
Speaker 1: are there are hard and fast principles, like I always
Speaker 1: go back to love and connectedness and limits. There are
Speaker 1: quick and dirty tools, but any are iCal or anything
Speaker 1: that's like ten ways to make sure your kid never
Speaker 1: has a tantrum. Again, It's it's it's just not quite
Speaker 1: that simple. You can have those ten tools in your toolbox,
Speaker 1: but you're never going to get away, to my mind,
Speaker 1: from the deeper work of figuring out how to anticipate
Speaker 1: your kids needs, how to figure out your own ship,
Speaker 1: and how to kind of look at the larger context
Speaker 1: of what's been happening in your family and your environment,
Speaker 1: and can you asked about some examples of disciplining. I
Speaker 1: think it's so age dependent because um once, I think
Speaker 1: we actually were discussing a little bit like when does
Speaker 1: it start. I mean it can start with with a
Speaker 1: you know, a child who's old enough to sit on
Speaker 1: his own, but is is beginning to pull up, and
Speaker 1: it is continually pulling up on you, for example, and
Speaker 1: it's actually disciplining. And what I'm saying in quote and
Speaker 1: air quotes which you can't see, um that to to say,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want you pulling up on me.
Speaker 1: You can pull up on the bookshelf, you or someplace
Speaker 1: safe whatever. Is doing that right now when he bites
Speaker 1: my nipple, Yeah, right, I don't want you to do that.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's my first sort of like you know,
Speaker 1: and he looks up, moving the eye like like you know,
Speaker 1: we've been through it enough now to know that I
Speaker 1: don't like it, and he gets the boob taken away,
Speaker 1: like okay, well then that's your sign that like you're
Speaker 1: having a hard time. We're having a hard time, and
Speaker 1: we're not doing this and so you can chew on
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, you guys, breastfeeding is very close to
Speaker 1: being done, and it's a very it's a consequence that
Speaker 1: makes sense, which is always the way. It's not like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a like you're gonna bite my nipple and
Speaker 1: therefore I'm going to take away your blanket like it's
Speaker 1: it's a very natural train of thought, like you're biting
Speaker 1: me that hurts, and so I'm going to take away
Speaker 1: this body part that you're hurting, which is how, as
Speaker 1: you said before, the world works, and I try to
Speaker 1: explain it to him while and it's happened. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know again the rational thinking is like whatever, it's
Speaker 1: probably more for me to be honest than him, because
Speaker 1: you're just like your dad, just like my dad. You guys, oh,
Speaker 1: I am since I think you want to try to
Speaker 1: also just keep it short and sweet. You know that
Speaker 1: hurts me, and I'm so I'm not gonna let you
Speaker 1: do it. It's not like you don't get into it. Dies.
Speaker 1: Katie's crib is all about me, all about my selfish
Speaker 1: need of figuring out how to do this. Well, so
Speaker 1: thank you, Okay, So I say, because I think as
Speaker 1: they get older as well, I think the temptation Laurie
Speaker 1: mentioned it is a sort of rationalize you know, well,
Speaker 1: you know, if you eat a lot of pizza. You'll
Speaker 1: start you might have a stomachache later, and then you
Speaker 1: know that's actually not very healthy food. And here's why,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's too much. It's just you know, you
Speaker 1: had one piece and that's all we said you were
Speaker 1: going to have. I always think of like what we
Speaker 1: can do that keep it? Oh, I thought we were
Speaker 1: all like but also you know, I understand you want more.
Speaker 1: I know it's delicious, but we said that today we'd
Speaker 1: have one piece. So that's what we're doing with I
Speaker 1: always like, wow, so you can really talk yourself out
Speaker 1: like it's too much. It's too much. And also because
Speaker 1: you're them, God, guys, this is this is such a
Speaker 1: hot topic for me because I really I'm such a
Speaker 1: fluid like I'm going to have a very hard time
Speaker 1: like my again, kids aren't dogs, but we're gonna go
Speaker 1: to my dog for a second. My dog is a
Speaker 1: terrible dog because I have no boundaries, no no limits.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad I learned on the dog to be honest,
Speaker 1: because I'm going to try to not sunk up my
Speaker 1: human child in that. What I'm hearing from you is
Speaker 1: that by setting limits and boundaries are saying maybe a
Speaker 1: short sense. That doesn't mean I love him any less
Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's like actually a very healthy
Speaker 1: thing to set boundaries and limits in a loving, safe way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think Rebecca brought up about the emotions, that
Speaker 1: that they cannot regulate their own emotions now and so
Speaker 1: that in these situations you want to acknowledge the emotions.
Speaker 1: I see how angry you are, and we're not gonna
Speaker 1: have a pizza and we're not Like I often have
Speaker 1: parents say like I either have to total line like no,
Speaker 1: you can have the pizza. I said, you can have
Speaker 1: the pizza, you know, or I have to give them
Speaker 1: the pizza. And the fact is there's this whole gray
Speaker 1: area and queen of like, I'm not going to give
Speaker 1: you the pizza. But I totally get it because oftentimes
Speaker 1: kids are escalating because they feel like you don't understand
Speaker 1: how much I want a piece of pizza. So I'm
Speaker 1: not trying about the pizza. I'm just like for the law,
Speaker 1: and God, do you understand that this is a huge deal.
Speaker 1: And as parents we do the opposite. We're like, it's pizza,
Speaker 1: you had it yesterday, you'll have it tomorrow, Like take
Speaker 1: it easy, but you know from your own life that never,
Speaker 1: I mean no one who ever says things like that
Speaker 1: to you. That never feels good. So you say, like
Speaker 1: you're really frustrated, you really want the pizza. I know
Speaker 1: pizza is delicious. Like, squeeze my hand as hard as
Speaker 1: you possibly can because we're not having another piece of pizza.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you did this? I did all
Speaker 1: this and that's it. That's true, because absolutely Mad and
Speaker 1: her kids are wonderful perfect, No they're not. But but
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember so often just sitting and saying,
Speaker 1: I get it, I understand how I know you want
Speaker 1: ice cream. I'm sorry I can't give it to you today,
Speaker 1: but we've had enough treats already and we can maybe
Speaker 1: have it tomorrow. But I'm really sorry, and I get
Speaker 1: I want ice cream too, but it's it's not going
Speaker 1: to happen today. And you say, and they really do
Speaker 1: get it. It calms them down, It calms them down.
Speaker 1: But then there was one point I wish I remember.
Speaker 1: It was me shared Jamie and I said, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I I understand, I know you want that doll, but
Speaker 1: I just like that saying you understand I'm saying, right, Well,
Speaker 1: my my frind's been like, but you're in charge, you
Speaker 1: can get me ice cream, and I'm like, that is
Speaker 1: an excellent point. However, doesn't stop saying how much you
Speaker 1: understand God, because once they actually get rational thinking, it's like,
Speaker 1: now we're dealing with negotiating and but some natural consequences.
Speaker 1: And like, I just want to say one more thing
Speaker 1: about the giving long explanations, because not only is it
Speaker 1: going but by a lot, especially if they're an emotion set,
Speaker 1: but it's also it's really feeding, like let's make this
Speaker 1: this really big deal. Let's really connect on this, and
Speaker 1: particularly if you're a working mom, if you're a mom
Speaker 1: of more than one kid, if you like every mom
Speaker 1: and ning at the time I was on your phone. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it's not only that, it's that's suddenly becomes the behavior
Speaker 1: that gets that gets you. It's like, oh, mom is
Speaker 1: suddenly not paying attention to my brother and not paying
Speaker 1: attention to her phone and stopped cooking dinner and isn't
Speaker 1: emailing her colleagues because I am going nuts about wanting
Speaker 1: more pizza. I think. So we're working for me, And
Speaker 1: so part of the short explanation is something like, guys,
Speaker 1: you are blowing my mind all day to day. And
Speaker 1: then you can say, if you have that time and energy,
Speaker 1: right then I tell you we're not having more pizza now,
Speaker 1: but I'd love to go play legos and and so
Speaker 1: by all means give them that time and attention if
Speaker 1: in that moment you haven't, but don't make it contingent
Speaker 1: on their acting in this way that you're actually trying
Speaker 1: to Why is this ship you not to get into
Speaker 1: the show that they're going to want to see tomorrow too?
Speaker 1: You know, why is this ship not taught? I don't understand,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like we would be making such better
Speaker 1: human like, like I just feel like I know so
Speaker 1: many parents that don't well. In my former job, I
Speaker 1: taught pediatricia because that those are the people that are
Speaker 1: actually interfacing with parents, and parents have these questions, and
Speaker 1: pediatricians actually don't learn, for example, about attachment in training
Speaker 1: to be a pediatrician. Yeah, now I'm going to get also,
Speaker 1: no good please. In Canada for five years, I'm Canadian
Speaker 1: by birth, and it was freaking love Canadian. My best
Speaker 1: used to babysit justin Trudeau. How crazy is that he is? So?
Speaker 1: So anyway, I did a show called um the Mom
Speaker 1: Show in Canada, and it was. It was. Our studio
Speaker 1: was basically a playroom, a living room in a kitchen,
Speaker 1: and we had on every day a supernanny. Her name
Speaker 1: is Nanny Robina, and she was in the playroom with
Speaker 1: the kids. We'd have three moms, regular moms on with
Speaker 1: their kids. The kids would be in the playroom. We
Speaker 1: had a pediatrician and we had a family therapist. Those
Speaker 1: were our experts and every day we would have three
Speaker 1: moms come in. They would talk about what was going
Speaker 1: through now and we'd have the expert's way in on it.
Speaker 1: It was such a great Have you sold this now?
Speaker 1: I tried to sell it to a network that shall
Speaker 1: not be named, and they said that parenting is too niche,
Speaker 1: so that they couldn't sell it. But like every I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a big niche. Like it's a big niche and
Speaker 1: like very important because I feel like and it was
Speaker 1: by the way, it was unscripted. The kids could write,
Speaker 1: you know, but it would be cool because you could
Speaker 1: watch a kid have a tantrum, then you could see
Speaker 1: how someone would maybe deal with it. And then if
Speaker 1: you're at home in your life, you could translated and
Speaker 1: use some of those tools, and the kids could, like
Speaker 1: we literally having us have our kids, they could just
Speaker 1: wander in and come and sit on your lap if
Speaker 1: they needed to, or they could be in the other room.
Speaker 1: It was very loose and it was It taught me
Speaker 1: so much about parenting. Yeah, because you're really good at it. Um,
Speaker 1: So tell me about RYE a little bit too. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry we skipped over this, but can you explain because
Speaker 1: we're saying that word a lot and I think are
Speaker 1: and I'm a fan of it. So tell our listeners
Speaker 1: if you can. How would you explain the method? So um,
Speaker 1: One thing about RYE, which I should say right off
Speaker 1: the bat, is that it's impossible to do an elevator
Speaker 1: speech about it. Sorry, so thank you for asking. You're welcome.
Speaker 1: But um, I can tell you a number of things.
Speaker 1: RYE is an approach to childcare which emphasizes how we
Speaker 1: connect with our children and having a relationship with them,
Speaker 1: not as if they are little adults, but recognizing that
Speaker 1: they are people and as as people, they need to
Speaker 1: be related to with respect and with um nurturing and
Speaker 1: also with firmness. So um, when we talk about respect,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's it's sometimes people are like
Speaker 1: respect babies, like what why? I don't get what you mean?
Speaker 1: But and we and you see it every day how
Speaker 1: parents can often treat their they love their babies, but
Speaker 1: they don't always treat them with respect. And so you know,
Speaker 1: sort of dangling the baby, throwing the baby up in
Speaker 1: the air, maybe that's not what the baby wants. Did
Speaker 1: you did? Was that? Was there any thought put into that?
Speaker 1: Or just sort of picking the baby up, putting them
Speaker 1: on the changing table, doing the diaper change, putting them
Speaker 1: down and not telling them to what's going on is disrespectful.
Speaker 1: And because they can they can't understand if you say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick you up now, you show them your hands,
Speaker 1: and you wait until you get some kind of recognition
Speaker 1: that they've that they heard you. You know, maybe they
Speaker 1: move slightly towards you, maybe they just make eye contact.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a respectful exchange. And you you you
Speaker 1: don't see as much of that as I wish. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really truly like an amazing thing. So when what
Speaker 1: I said about discipline and that it's really not about
Speaker 1: it's not about how can I get my child to
Speaker 1: do this or get my child to to do that.
Speaker 1: It's really what kind of relationship do I want to
Speaker 1: have with my child and how do I want to
Speaker 1: influence what he or she becomes in the world, and
Speaker 1: how can I do that in a respectful way. So
Speaker 1: one of the examples that I gave the child sitting
Speaker 1: on your lap trying to pull up, Um, you recognize
Speaker 1: that they have physical needs. It's same way that you
Speaker 1: recognize that they have these emotional needs when they become
Speaker 1: toddlers and they're overwhelmed by these giant emotions that they have.
Speaker 1: You recognize that. You acknowledge that I know you want
Speaker 1: to pull up. I see you have this need, but
Speaker 1: you can't do it in this fashion because that hurts me,
Speaker 1: or because it's not healthy, or because it's dangerous. But
Speaker 1: I will give you another way of doing it. So
Speaker 1: it kind of it's just a very different exchange from
Speaker 1: don't do this or no, you can't do that. How
Speaker 1: would you guys, like, for example, like Ry, I go
Speaker 1: to the classes in l A. I love it. I
Speaker 1: know it. My husband has never been, my nan has
Speaker 1: never been. How do you guys make sure the this
Speaker 1: united front of caretakers to your baby are all on
Speaker 1: the same page. Like, you know, my kid is with
Speaker 1: a nanny right now, I'm working mom. He's with her
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm curious about how, you know, how
Speaker 1: do we form a good team to make sure that everyone,
Speaker 1: like I said it on the same page, and we're
Speaker 1: all understanding that when huge emotional swings happen or they're
Speaker 1: throwing themselves on the floor and kicking and screaming that
Speaker 1: they didn't get pizza, Like I know that, Like my
Speaker 1: nanny and I have a very different style, but even
Speaker 1: my husband and I to be honest or on different
Speaker 1: you know, like you should have asked him on the
Speaker 1: so what do you think of what do you think
Speaker 1: about child? He's very like he has a much higher
Speaker 1: threshold for just like you know, so what he's crying,
Speaker 1: let him cry for a what like he's he's a
Speaker 1: much higher threshold for I guess being tougher is maybe
Speaker 1: the word you would use. Or he um, he didn't
Speaker 1: carry him for nine months. It's a whole different dynamic.
Speaker 1: And also like with Rye stuff like he loves our
Speaker 1: sons so much and he's an incredible dad and he
Speaker 1: loves to smush on him and kiss him so much.
Speaker 1: And sometimes the baby audibly complains, and I'm like, the
Speaker 1: baby is communicating with you that he don't want that
Speaker 1: right now, Like he's like, but I don't care. He's
Speaker 1: my baby. I'm kissing him everywhere, and and the baby
Speaker 1: is like completely whining and complaining, and I'm like, the
Speaker 1: baby is like, get the funk out of my space.
Speaker 1: And Adam, I like to say to him, how would
Speaker 1: you feel if someone was doing that to you? Doesn't
Speaker 1: really translate, but I'm trying. So how would you guys
Speaker 1: suggest getting people on the same page for people who
Speaker 1: are listening if they're don't line up exactly with their
Speaker 1: partner whoever they're raising the baby. Wow, that's a tough
Speaker 1: question and it comes up all the time in classes. UM,
Speaker 1: and I think there, it's it's it's it's difficult. And
Speaker 1: I think you sometimes also have to choose your battles
Speaker 1: because you may not be able to be on the
Speaker 1: same page about every single interaction and that happens in
Speaker 1: your home. Um, I do think that the more your
Speaker 1: husband is able to in this case, I'm saying, yes,
Speaker 1: it can also be you know, a nanny or partner
Speaker 1: or whatever. But the more they're able to observe how
Speaker 1: you interact with your child and and and the success
Speaker 1: of those interactions, the more they might become a little
Speaker 1: more willing to accept your method or to try out
Speaker 1: some of the things that you're doing. Um, I think
Speaker 1: you might also look at like, why is it that
Speaker 1: if if it take an example that the father is
Speaker 1: much more prone to be very, very stern, and it
Speaker 1: feels like the child is not getting enough quote unquote discipline,
Speaker 1: you might also look at like, why is that? Is
Speaker 1: he thinking that what I'm doing is is too soft?
Speaker 1: Is it too soft? Um? You know what's needed for
Speaker 1: the child? And and and how can I not not
Speaker 1: just know I'm doing everything that's right, and you're need
Speaker 1: to change to what I'm doing? You know, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: there's a reason that he thinks that more sternness is needed.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe you're not being quite as you know quite,
Speaker 1: Maybe you're not setting as many limits as are needed,
Speaker 1: or you're not being as firm and consistent about it. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's not necessarily the case, but that's
Speaker 1: something to It's interesting. I know everything, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell you how to do that, do it the
Speaker 1: right way or whatever way? That I feel is better. Um,
Speaker 1: but definitely I feel like the modeling can have a
Speaker 1: huge effect. I mean it's particularly like in laws. I've
Speaker 1: had people come into class and say, you know, my
Speaker 1: my in laws just thought I was insane doing this
Speaker 1: wright thing. It's so different from what they grew up with.
Speaker 1: It's so different from what they did with their children.
Speaker 1: But they saw me, you know, they saw my child
Speaker 1: sit down and have a snack and sit on a
Speaker 1: stool when he's eighteen months old, and they were blown away.
Speaker 1: I think it's also and I do this a lot
Speaker 1: with parents that I work with, UM, it can be
Speaker 1: a really beautiful conversation to say, what do we want
Speaker 1: him to look like when he's older, Like, what are
Speaker 1: the qualities that are most important to us as parents
Speaker 1: that are so for example, ball, I hear that a
Speaker 1: lot about affection and I've even brought in again not
Speaker 1: to go on a political bent, but like the met
Speaker 1: too movement, their body is their body and they are
Speaker 1: allowed to say no, don't touch me, and that starts
Speaker 1: young and so like. But if you want that and
Speaker 1: you value that, how do we get there? And then
Speaker 1: that can be a collaborative conversation between parents, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of science backing up different ways. So it
Speaker 1: would be like, Okay, I want my son or I
Speaker 1: want my daughter to be really confident and resilient. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of research showing that the best way
Speaker 1: to instill and promote confidence and resilience is with a
Speaker 1: really connected early childhood relationship, meeting your kids needs. It's
Speaker 1: anti it's counterintuitive. A lot of people feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: I need to foster independence early on so they become independent. Actually,
Speaker 1: and I don't mean independent in like the healthy right way.
Speaker 1: I mean the like he needs to stop crying and
Speaker 1: buck up or whatever. Actually the opposite is true when
Speaker 1: the early years of life, like showing that you're there
Speaker 1: to help your kid and be there for them emotionally.
Speaker 1: I it is what gives them right. So it's a
Speaker 1: lot of there are quote unquote some answers, not in
Speaker 1: a formulaic way of like do this get this? You know,
Speaker 1: it's not like you put your soda cam. But having
Speaker 1: parents think together about what kind of a family do
Speaker 1: we want, what kind of a kid do we want?
Speaker 1: And then what are some ways that we can get
Speaker 1: there together can be a really collaborative and cool conversation
Speaker 1: to have, particularly not in the moment of the thing.
Speaker 1: And that's like, right when we're all calm, right, you
Speaker 1: can't be having this conversation whild exactly like sit and
Speaker 1: have dinner and again, you know, and just talk about
Speaker 1: in a fun way. I mean, it can be like
Speaker 1: a fun fantasy. And when my son goes to a
Speaker 1: therapist when he's sixteen, what do I want him to
Speaker 1: say about me? WHOA, yeah, that's great. What do you
Speaker 1: think Lorie? But yeah, like are you are you? And
Speaker 1: are you guys so united? Like I mean, have you
Speaker 1: been so united? And like we do believe in grounding.
Speaker 1: We don't believe in grounding. This warrants you know, like
Speaker 1: we were a time out failing, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like wo and if we if we are not are
Speaker 1: united front, we never show it, are we? We talked
Speaker 1: about it behind closed doors. It's key. They can never
Speaker 1: see the crack in the army. They can never They
Speaker 1: will They will be starting from very young. They will
Speaker 1: know that oh mom's the sucker and will say yes,
Speaker 1: and Dad will say now and and you know, and
Speaker 1: they'll work it if they if they want so. Um,
Speaker 1: Michael and I have always tried really hard to stay
Speaker 1: on the same page. I always thought I would be
Speaker 1: like the the iron fist, and he was going to
Speaker 1: be the velvet glove, the pushover, and it's actually turned
Speaker 1: around to be the other way around. But for somehow,
Speaker 1: we we keep it calm. We don't fight in front
Speaker 1: of them, and we don't yell at them, and and
Speaker 1: that that's a controversial thing too. We keep a very
Speaker 1: calm household. But the problem with a calm household, I
Speaker 1: don't know whether we've done them any favors, because now
Speaker 1: when somebody yells at them, they collapse. They don't know
Speaker 1: what is going on, because we honestly rarely, if ever
Speaker 1: raised of voices to them. We just always kept a
Speaker 1: calm like, look at this is what it's going to be.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna listen to it. I think that's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is great, except that that, you know, the other day, No,
Speaker 1: it was actually not the other it was like years ago.
Speaker 1: But I was like, damn it, Michael, I'm really blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, and and my daughter looking she said, stop screaming,
Speaker 1: and Daddy stop screaming, like screaming. They don't even know
Speaker 1: what whatever real and it has done them a bit
Speaker 1: of a disservice. But for the most part, they are
Speaker 1: calm kids. They walk into the world, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of in a with a very and they also know
Speaker 1: that we love them. So when we do discipline them,
Speaker 1: you know, it's to the point now where my daughter says, yes,
Speaker 1: I know you love me, mom, Like I get it,
Speaker 1: I understand that you have to do this, but you
Speaker 1: still love me. Yes, that's great. So when they can
Speaker 1: finish that sentence for you, then it's good. Yes, And
Speaker 1: I would just say that it's okay, I agree with
Speaker 1: you about the chink in the armor when it's sort
Speaker 1: of not a healthy discussion, but it's really also okay
Speaker 1: to say to your kid like I talked to daddy
Speaker 1: and I changed my mom, you know, or you know,
Speaker 1: daddy and I talked about this and now I actually
Speaker 1: feel a little bit different. Oh this is a huge question,
Speaker 1: Yeah that I want to say, like how much of
Speaker 1: it is like I said, like we're not going to
Speaker 1: have the pizza. I've heard from other moms just as
Speaker 1: in life, like would you not go back on that
Speaker 1: like the minute you say or this type of thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: if you do that one more time. I'm just explained
Speaker 1: to you were going to leave the party. Okay. Um,
Speaker 1: I've said that we're not going to do whatever it
Speaker 1: is five times and on the sixth time, we're going
Speaker 1: to leave the party whatever it is. And I know
Speaker 1: a mom who I respect very well and her kids
Speaker 1: are awesome, and she was like, let me tell you something.
Speaker 1: It only takes a couple of times, but you leave
Speaker 1: that party and they and they know that your word
Speaker 1: means something and they can't. Is that true? I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's two questions about consistency. So
Speaker 1: one is that yes, when you I mean leave the
Speaker 1: party thing, I would say, I see you're having a
Speaker 1: hard time being here. Too much is going on. We're
Speaker 1: to go home. I mean that's you know, you can't
Speaker 1: hit you, you hit your friend, We're going to go.
Speaker 1: It's not so much like I'm going to threaten you
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be five chances, because they'll take the
Speaker 1: five chances. Um. But I think Rebecca's point about changing
Speaker 1: your mind, you know, they're going to be times when
Speaker 1: you cannot hold the line because you're human. You have
Speaker 1: you know, the stresses of life in New York City
Speaker 1: or life in a rural town. I mean, you have
Speaker 1: a lot of stresses. So um, there's going to be
Speaker 1: the time where you say, you know what I thought
Speaker 1: about it. We're gonna have another pizza today. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have another piece, you know, And it's not. It's not
Speaker 1: if you have established that you are the authority, and
Speaker 1: if you've established that you have this kind of relationship
Speaker 1: with your child where you do talk about these things
Speaker 1: and you do set limits, and you do recognize his
Speaker 1: emotions and his needs, then you go back on it
Speaker 1: one time, you go back on it, you know, five
Speaker 1: times in two months. It's not going to change that.
Speaker 1: They know that you're the no. And I love that
Speaker 1: you say that, you say, I thought about it. It's
Speaker 1: giving them human Like wait a second, I'm this is
Speaker 1: what a human being does when they make a mistake
Speaker 1: or when they change their mind. In my book, because
Speaker 1: I get this question all the time, it's a personal example,
Speaker 1: and I just think it speaks to this because parents
Speaker 1: say to me all the time like exactly that question,
Speaker 1: Like you say, to be really consistent, but also that
Speaker 1: I'm human and I can make mistakes. And I think
Speaker 1: your point is very well taken, which is that the
Speaker 1: point is your overall consistent and then you can But
Speaker 1: I Henry, who's my oldest who's turning five in March,
Speaker 1: when he was three, I remember he called me into
Speaker 1: his room at one point, like two in the morning,
Speaker 1: and he sort of knew that he could only call
Speaker 1: me and if it was an emergency. But the emergency
Speaker 1: was that he wanted more ice in his water. And
Speaker 1: it's two in the morning and he called me out
Speaker 1: of bed and he asked for more ice in his water,
Speaker 1: this little freaking three year old, right, And I said, no,
Speaker 1: that's not an emergency. I'm not getting you ice in
Speaker 1: your water. That's insane. And he started to lose his mind.
Speaker 1: And what I was able to do, and I can't
Speaker 1: always do this, but I talked about it. I was
Speaker 1: able to just up for a second and take stock
Speaker 1: and be like, Okay, I'm exhausted. I have a big
Speaker 1: day at work tomorrow. He's never done this before. I
Speaker 1: am taking a risk that if I go get him
Speaker 1: ice for his water, maybe tomorrow he'll wake up and
Speaker 1: want it again. And then it's just one choice point
Speaker 1: in time, like it's just it's not because parents get
Speaker 1: overwhelmed with like if I say no now, I mean
Speaker 1: if I say yes now, every night till he's fifteen,
Speaker 1: he's gonna wake it's like no, like right, like what's
Speaker 1: happening right now? And I ended up getting him ice
Speaker 1: for his water. You know, I went all the way
Speaker 1: down stairs. I got him ice, and it was just
Speaker 1: the path of least resistance. But I said it out loud,
Speaker 1: not because at age three in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night he would understand, but as a way of starting
Speaker 1: to practice, I said, you know what, I changed my mind.
Speaker 1: I am going to get you ice for your water,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get you ice for your water because
Speaker 1: I really need to get back to sleep, and so
Speaker 1: do you. And I went down and I did it,
Speaker 1: and he didn't wake up the next night wanting it.
Speaker 1: And if he had, then maybe I would take a
Speaker 1: different approach, like it's it's right. You can't you say
Speaker 1: he didn't understand and and maybe you know, the words
Speaker 1: weren't computing the way they would in our minds. But
Speaker 1: I think he probably sense you had to change in tone,
Speaker 1: and that is that communicating. I agree, And again it's
Speaker 1: also just modeling, being thoughtful, as you said, and just
Speaker 1: practicing for when he's older and does realize and I
Speaker 1: am going to need to say you know what, Yeah
Speaker 1: I said this and I thought about it, and I'm
Speaker 1: chaking and actually you're curp you can and I'm changing
Speaker 1: my mind from my needs like that was an important
Speaker 1: like this actually is going to be about me right now.
Speaker 1: I want to get back to sleep. And so that's
Speaker 1: why I'm what I parents, What do you guys think
Speaker 1: about when this ship goes down in public? Because like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's the stuff that like I'm I, you know,
Speaker 1: having a one year old. We talked about this a
Speaker 1: lot in the podcast about you know, hopefully finding a
Speaker 1: mom crew or friends that really you do truly feel
Speaker 1: supported by and not judged by, or you don't each
Speaker 1: others because as we all know this this mothering thing,
Speaker 1: women can be very harsh and it can be a
Speaker 1: very unfortunately judgment filled space. Um and yeah, I can
Speaker 1: tell you are I can tell. But I feel like,
Speaker 1: as I move forward, I have this awesome group of moms.
Speaker 1: We're all very close with babies at the same age,
Speaker 1: and I'm really curious to see how, you know, because
Speaker 1: we're already starting to split off with like I know,
Speaker 1: the moms who are like in the group who are
Speaker 1: like super fucking tough and hardcore, and I know the
Speaker 1: moms who are like super super lax and like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it's already like becoming clear
Speaker 1: and where I'm falling in that line. But I'm curious
Speaker 1: when we're at each other's when your birthday party is
Speaker 1: coming up and or no, not one, but probably like
Speaker 1: two or three and like freak out start to happen,
Speaker 1: or babies need to leave the party because babies aren't
Speaker 1: having or the toddlers not having a You're not you're
Speaker 1: not enjoying yourself at this party, so it's time to
Speaker 1: go um Or the person who's like you get six
Speaker 1: chances is and then we're out of here, or the
Speaker 1: mom who grabs that child by the arm very roughly.
Speaker 1: I mean, look like we've all seen these things, So like,
Speaker 1: what are your tips for public boundary setting, like with
Speaker 1: your own tribe. I think the number one thing I
Speaker 1: say to go back to what we said, like, because
Speaker 1: this comes up all the time, is that's the most
Speaker 1: important time to be on the same team as your kid,
Speaker 1: because what I see all the time is parents who
Speaker 1: talk to me or I'll do an observation or whatever,
Speaker 1: and their kid will start melting down in the playground,
Speaker 1: and their immediate alliance is to the other moms. So
Speaker 1: they'll immediately feel like embarrassed that their kid is, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're I'm sorry, sorry, no one can see me,
Speaker 1: you know, like they'll they'll look at the other moms
Speaker 1: and or on the on the grocery store line, you know,
Speaker 1: they'll their kids will start grabbing something and they'll look
Speaker 1: at the other customers. Oh, I'm you know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: You know, he's not. You gotta just try to tune
Speaker 1: that stuff out as your first It's not that you
Speaker 1: can't eventually circle back and if your kid hit some
Speaker 1: old woman by only, but like you're it's like you
Speaker 1: go to your kid and again you're on your kids team.
Speaker 1: It's not I gave you six chances. It's like, this
Speaker 1: isn't working for you. I'm right here, Let's go outside
Speaker 1: and talk about it, let's figure it out, or um.
Speaker 1: Because I think I've seen I've seen it in like
Speaker 1: a in a moment kids since when that connectedness is
Speaker 1: lost and if they're having a big emotional reaction like
Speaker 1: a tantrum in public. The number one thing that's going
Speaker 1: to make it amp up is sensing like where my
Speaker 1: mom go Like my mom is, but she's not actually
Speaker 1: with me. She's now suddenly best friends with that person
Speaker 1: she's never seen before. And I think we have to
Speaker 1: examine our own instincts about like why am I something
Speaker 1: best friends with that woman? Who when my own kid?
Speaker 1: Who's more important to her? The kids that the other
Speaker 1: mothers at the playground, or your child of course, or
Speaker 1: even your friend who has a different approach. And then
Speaker 1: in the moment though it's just for whatever reason, it's
Speaker 1: so hard, that judgment thing is one of the hardest
Speaker 1: things to deal with, I think. But but the remembering,
Speaker 1: you know, the relationship with your child is the most important,
Speaker 1: and then also remembering that it doesn't really matter in
Speaker 1: the scheme of things that your child had a meltdown.
Speaker 1: You know, in the serial Aisle Michael, Michael was taking
Speaker 1: Jamie across the street one day and she wouldn't hold
Speaker 1: his hand, and he's like, you have to hold my hand.
Speaker 1: I'm walking an hold Ranet. She had a complete meltdown
Speaker 1: in the middle of the corner of four and bro
Speaker 1: and he just, I mean and literally people are walking, Gilman.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a very Piman like famous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I remember because I was there to what he
Speaker 1: did was he crouched down. You got to get down
Speaker 1: to their level because if you're just towering over them,
Speaker 1: yelling at the it's not gonna get down to their level.
Speaker 1: I understand you're upset. This is a safety issue, like
Speaker 1: whatever is you have to say to get them to
Speaker 1: do this is unacceptable behavior, which lying down in the
Speaker 1: middle of the street is, and you know whatever. But
Speaker 1: the hardest thing you'll ever do as a parent is
Speaker 1: not lose it. I mean, you swallow so much rage
Speaker 1: sometimes when you just want to scream back, and it's
Speaker 1: the probably the worst thing you can do because if
Speaker 1: you're a screamer, they'll be a screamer and then that's
Speaker 1: the relationship. But if you can just tamp it down,
Speaker 1: walk away for ten seconds, make sure they're safe, but
Speaker 1: just you know, take it, take ten breaths, because sometimes
Speaker 1: that's as many as it you need um come back.
Speaker 1: It'll it'll make for a happier environment in general. And
Speaker 1: sometimes you're not going to be able to do that,
Speaker 1: and you're going to scream at your kid and say
Speaker 1: something you regret, and the idea of rupture and repair
Speaker 1: like you go back and you will say I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: You say I'm sorry a lot. We were on eighty
Speaker 1: four and Broadway, which is, by the way, where my
Speaker 1: grandparents used to I grew up on eighty first and Broadway.
Speaker 1: But you know, we're on eighty four and Broadway, and
Speaker 1: I just I got really impatient and I lost my mind.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that I, you know, use the F
Speaker 1: word and I yanked you. I don't do that a lot.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I can't lie down on
Speaker 1: the street, and so let's go have an ice cream.
Speaker 1: And I think also a part of your question that
Speaker 1: has to do with just friends and your real moms
Speaker 1: and group you know, other parents that you interact with.
Speaker 1: And I think, but again it's the most important thing
Speaker 1: is you stay close to your child, and your child
Speaker 1: can understand. You know, Jim's house is different from my house.
Speaker 1: This is how Jim's mom behaves, or even just you
Speaker 1: know that mom at the playground. It's like, I don't
Speaker 1: think that she wants you to play with you know,
Speaker 1: Johnny's truck. You know in our house, you know, you
Speaker 1: would be able to do that. You would be able
Speaker 1: to play with your friend's toys, but she doesn't really
Speaker 1: want you to, so let's go to the sandbox or
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, the house that you're allowed to watch
Speaker 1: Pretty Woman at when you're twelve is like the house
Speaker 1: that every kid wants to have a sleepover at, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, well I didn't, I didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a whole lot of boundaries, and it's
Speaker 1: like begging for someone parents to say no, this is
Speaker 1: an inappropriate movie for you. You know you you know,
Speaker 1: they think that they're the cool kid, but they really
Speaker 1: would love it if somebody told them. You know, that
Speaker 1: is huge to hear. That is huge to hear. My
Speaker 1: relationship is with my child. You know, that's the most
Speaker 1: valued in my life, and like the one that I
Speaker 1: have to Yeah, like practice, prioritize and practice the methods
Speaker 1: that feel the best for us, no matter where we
Speaker 1: are or who's looking. Um, this is so helpful. I
Speaker 1: feel like we've been talking forever and it is nowhere
Speaker 1: near enough. Can we just go around really quick and
Speaker 1: say I don't know any words of wisdom or like
Speaker 1: a quick advice you have for anyone embarking on this
Speaker 1: journey of parenthood. I mean, I feel like we touched
Speaker 1: on some real fucking gems. But if there's anything you
Speaker 1: guys forgot or feel like you didn't get in, I
Speaker 1: mean again, there this is endless, but something to maybe
Speaker 1: remember put in the back of their pocket. Hang on,
Speaker 1: let me get my notes out. I love that we're
Speaker 1: on the same team. I love that we're I think
Speaker 1: love and limits I talk about all the time, Like
Speaker 1: just when in doubt, go back to like how does
Speaker 1: the love thing feel in my home? Not like do
Speaker 1: I love my kid? But are we showing it? Are
Speaker 1: we connecting? If I'm super super busy all the time,
Speaker 1: can I leave my kids and post its? Can I
Speaker 1: tell them at night when I kissed them good night,
Speaker 1: you know, three specific times of day that I thought
Speaker 1: about them and in what way? And then how am
Speaker 1: I doing on limits? How am I doing on modeling
Speaker 1: the behavior I want? You know? And just as a
Speaker 1: general like quick and dirty guide, as you said back pocket,
Speaker 1: when your kid is acting in ways that you're not
Speaker 1: loving and you see it trending over time, um, let
Speaker 1: me go back to love, let me go back to limits.
Speaker 1: And then, like we said, in the beginning, let me
Speaker 1: go back to what's happening in the whole system, because
Speaker 1: you had that great point christ and about there were
Speaker 1: family in town last week, you know, like, let me
Speaker 1: let me go back to see a big picture, bigger
Speaker 1: picture than I might be in and figure out kind
Speaker 1: of what may be going on for my kids. And Gloria,
Speaker 1: I was just looking at my notes into something I've
Speaker 1: said before. You need to listen to your child. Make
Speaker 1: sure you're listening to them and listening to them with
Speaker 1: clear ears and not with an agenda of any kind. Um.
Speaker 1: It's so important they are trying to communicate to you
Speaker 1: in any way they can. And a lot of the
Speaker 1: tantrums come because of the frustration that you're not getting
Speaker 1: what they're trying to explain to you. So listen to
Speaker 1: your child, Listen, Listen, listen, listen, listen. So we have listened.
Speaker 1: We have love, and we have limits. And so I'm
Speaker 1: just going to add an r which relationship that when
Speaker 1: you're parenting, you're building the relationship that you want to
Speaker 1: have with this being for the rest of their life. Um.
Speaker 1: And and that's I mean, that's maybe just a sort
Speaker 1: of cosmic sound. No it's but if you really go
Speaker 1: back to thinking like, well, what kind of relationship do
Speaker 1: I want to have with this being? And how can
Speaker 1: I achieve that? Oh, you guys, this makes me feel
Speaker 1: so much better. I really this was so hopeful and
Speaker 1: and I think the three of you are so remarkable
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to
Speaker 1: be on Katie's Crib. Thank you so much, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you ladies, thank you, thank you guys so much
Speaker 1: for listening to Katie's Crib. And be sure to check
Speaker 1: out Shonda land dot com where you can find every
Speaker 1: episode of Katie's Crib and we've got crib notes for
Speaker 1: each episode where you can find out more about our
Speaker 1: guests and links to some of the resources we talked
Speaker 1: about on the podcast. And last, but not least, subscribe.
Speaker 1: We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher basically like wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Yet I want to watch what I want,
Speaker 1: you want