WEBVTT - Timeouts and Tantrums 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.440 Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's Crib. I'm super 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.480 stoked and scared for this episode. UM. We're gonna be 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.319 talking today about discipline. That's a trigger word for some people. 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:19.279 Some people like that words, people don't like that word. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.239 But let's We're going to talk about setting limits for 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.800 young toddlers, UM, and about how babies they grow when 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.639 they move around and they start to explore the world 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.280 around them, but they are also simultaneously testing their boundaries. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.519 And this is a massive topic, as all you guys know, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.240 and there are no easy answers, is what it sounds 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.680 like to me. UM. So I have three awesome guests 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.200 here today, UM, who have different approaches for helping kids 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.400 navigate all through their world safely. First, I want to 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.239 welcome Dr Rebecca shreg Hershberg. I'm gonna just call you. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.680 Can I call you Rebecca or do we call you doctor? 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.640 Can call me Dr sharg Hersberg at all time? No, 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.280 Dr shragg Hershberg, Okay, So Rebecca. She is a child 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.679 psychologist and a mother herself. UM. She's also the author 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:09.280 of an upcoming book called The Tantrum Survival Guide. There's 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.400 such a part of me that's like, do I have 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.520 to get that book? I'm gonna have to get that book, right, God, 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.120 But isn't I'm just gonna have an angel who's never 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.039 gonna have a dangrum. No, okay um. And she's also 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:22.520 the founder of Little House Calls Psychological Services p LC. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.880 And then our next guest is Kristen Eliasburg. She is 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.680 a RYE instructor and a mom and RYE stands for 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:37.560 Resources for Infant Edge Cars. Yes, edu caring was the 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:42.360 word that Maga Gerber, who founded RYE, coined to describe 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.840 what she feels we are doing as parents, which is 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.000 educating through how we care for our children. Yes, and 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.280 RYE has been really cool. I came to the RYE 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.480 method because I nannied a family that I went to 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.200 the babies classes RYE classes, and then I had a 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.760 baby and I've been taking them also with my son. Um. So, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.400 Kristen is a certified Right Associate as we said, and 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.200 she's a mentor and she's the founder of Present Parenting 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.600 where she teaches the RYE parent Infant Guidance classes. And 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.560 then last, but definitely not least, we have the one, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:20.400 the only Lorie Gelman. God, more. She is a mom 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.240 of two and she is the author of the book 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:27.840 that I'm currently reading called Class Mom. And as you 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.600 guys all know listening to Katie's crib, I really rely 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:36.120 on humor getting through this motherhood thing and this book 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.600 provides so much of that in my life. So thank 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.760 you Laurie for that my pleasure. So let's get started 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.919 and talking about this. First of all, this word discipline, okay, uh? 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.680 Is that even the right word to use? And you 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.239 can have you guys can agree to disagree, like that's 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.160 all fine. Yeah, what do you think, Rebecca, what do 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.040 you think the word discipline? I don't like or really 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.160 use the word discipline. I frequently it's where I meet 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.560 people to have these conversations because they come in with 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.200 that word. But I think, um, I think it's much more. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.760 As you said in your introduction about how toddlers and 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.880 young kids explore the world and helping them do that 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.359 and navigate that in a safe and nurturing way. I 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.200 do think that limits are a very important part of that, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.400 helping kids figure out where are the boundaries, And I 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.079 think knowing where their limits are helps them figure out 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.560 who they are, who, what their relationships are. I think 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.640 it's a really important part of social emotional development. Okay, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.640 so discipline is not a word that you're a fan of. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.960 I don't look young kids cook. I mean again, it's 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.480 not a it's not a trigger word for me. I'm 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.040 not gonna be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.560 someone used that word. However, in my thinking and my writing, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.320 it's not It's not a word that I think is 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.400 helpful in conceptualizing kids at this age and what they 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.640 need and what they benefit from, and how we best 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.880 help promote the behaviors we want to see. Sure, and 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.320 what do you think, Kristen, Um, I would tend to agree. Um, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.000 I think. I actually was talking amongst some Raye colleagues 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.960 about this upcoming podcast. What they got to say, Well, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.200 Debra Solomon, who was the former executive director at RYE, 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.760 had a really interesting take, which was to look at 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.640 the root of the word, which is disciple, so that 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:26.720 it's not that I think the word discipline, I think 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.880 immediately conjures up this sort of like I am the 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.640 authority and you are the being that must be chastised 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.120 kind of It's like, guy, how do you scold somebody 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.360 it's I mean, it rarely has a sort of very 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.640 positive connotation. On the other hand, disciple is more like, 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.440 you know, we are modeling for our toddlers and young 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.680 children and our older children, um, the behavior that we 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.440 want to inspire. So you know, if you think of 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.120 it that way, I mean, certainly limit setting is a 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.840 is a better word to use, but it also kind 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.880 of gives it a new another perspective on what we're doing, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.919 because it's really about our relationship with our children and 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.400 our connection with them. It's not about how we can 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.000 get them to do certain things or how do we 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.200 you know, scold them or punish them or you know, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.840 it's really inspiring the behavior that we want them to have. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.600 Love that what do you think, Well, I think I'm 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.479 in way over my head. No you are not. You 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:26.000 and I both were the moms, but we're the moms 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.680 who were just like, call it what you want. It's 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.880 it's basically forming your child and showing them the way 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.800 and giving them the ideas of what they're going to 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.840 grow up with. And I you know, discipline, it's just 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.920 a word really and and you know, my grandmother used 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:44.680 to be like, where is my stick? And like that 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.760 was we knew that was like we have a big trouble. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.400 So thank goodness, we don't do that anymore. But I 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.120 think that no matter what you call it, it's just 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.200 it's just molding the kids into what the human beings 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.679 they should be. Sure, sure, Rebecca, look what do you add? 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:01.880 They so I'll be the year. So what do I 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:03.960 have to look forward to in the next couple of years? 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.720 Like what are the typical what's the common acting out 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.080 at this age? Like what what are what do you 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.760 see like when parents come with you, Like what are 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.080 they freaking out about? So many things? Um, I mean 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.640 I think God, I think typical quote unquote tantrums begin. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.600 They can begin as early as twelve months. But it 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.040 also depends on how we define tantrums. And I certainly 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.960 talk about that. We all use that word kind of 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.839 left and right. I think of tantrums, and I define 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:35.839 tantrums as expressions of emotion that are perhaps not um 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.400 well regulated. And a lot comes down to sort of 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:43.120 where kids brains are at this stage, and they're prefrontal cortex, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.920 which is the part of the brain that plans and 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.200 judges and can think about how they want to act 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.719 in certain ways is not at all developed. Um. There's 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.400 a metaphor I love, which is that it's like an 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.400 air Your toddlers are like airport traffic control centers without 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.440 the traffic control like there like planes flying in and out, 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.560 no one knows. And and so you see kids that 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.080 are really impulsive, that are really emotional, that are really egocentric, 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.120 and a lot of times parents get really frustrated with 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.080 those behaviors and expect that kids won't do them because 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.000 they tell them not to do that, but their brains 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.400 don't know how to do them and aren't capable of 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.559 doing them. And that's I would say often a really 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.960 based starting point for families is where is your kid developmentally? 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.960 So for example, hol be may um you know, you say, 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.400 don't you know, don't throw that spoon, and so then 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.240 he kind of hits you a little bit and it's 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.080 sort of like, don't hit well, he's already he didn't 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:38.920 think like, oh I'm angry at mom, so I'm gonna 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.120 hit her. It's impulsive, it's an emotional reaction. It's like 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.040 saying to you you know, um, you know, Katie, go 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.640 go And now I'm of course not under pressure I'm 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.040 not going to whatever thing that you're really not capable 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.760 of doing, you know, like go say a paragraph in 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.280 Greek now, and you're going to be like, watch this, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.200 I didn't do it, But no, because it's you. Literally 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.640 you can't do it and you're not capable of doing it, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.120 and so no matter how many times I tell you 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.360 to do it, you're not. When does rational thought, I 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.480 guess that's when when does that come into play? Like 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.880 when the mother of teenagers usually answer well, I'm still waiting, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.160 not by I mean full full rationality, but I don't 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.080 think you can. You can rationalize with kids until they're 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.640 at least and I'm not an expert on name, but 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.280 for my kids it was, and it was the negotiating 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.880 started maybe at four, where they could see the cause 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.160 and effect and they could see the benefits of doing 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.760 it my way versus their way. And it depends on mood. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.400 It's all the mood depending. None of us can rationalize 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:48.200 when we're hungry sometime excited or hungry and tired or 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.360 or frustrated. You know, when when my husband tries to 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.600 problem solve when I'm still like really ramped up, I 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.439 can't hear that. You know, we it depends on kind 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.480 of what is going on in all of our brains. 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:01.840 What I will say is that executive functioning and that 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.480 prefntal cortex has been shown not to be fully developed 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:09.480 until twenties. And that's why, Holy, I know, but it's 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.480 why there's so much I mean, not to go off 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:12.960 on a tangent. You can edit it out, but it's 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:14.880 why there's so much debate about like how we treat 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.920 adolescence in the criminal justice system, like their brains are 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.319 not fully So we can leave that over here and 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.800 talk about it on another podcast. No, that's very it's 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.600 it's very helpful. So I mean in super I'm like, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.559 oh my god, I can't believe I had a child. 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:41.920 Um um, so how do you go about setting limits? 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.360 Like I know what makes me unco I know I 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.760 have a mommy instinct, gut right, Like I know there 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.119 are certain family members I have that will go unnamed, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.640 that definitely have like shaken their kids in front of 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.559 me in public when they acted out, and I was like, oh, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:58.920 that's not for me, you know, or like some more 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.760 old school way of disciplining or whatever. You know. My 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.240 husband comes from a family that was like super old 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.560 school and like he got spanked, and like my family 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.679 is like so like hippie dippy, and like my I 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.600 was never even grounded, Like every time I got in trouble, 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:16.840 it ended up like okay, you can go to your 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:18.240 room and think about what you've done. And then my 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:19.560 dad would come in and said it then in my 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.079 bed and he would cry more than I would, you 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.120 know what I mean, Like he would be hysterical about like, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.720 let's discuss maybe a better choice would have been X, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.840 Y or Z or whatever. But did that frustrate you 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:31.960 at all? And were you at some point like just 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:33.600 yell at me and get it over with it? Just 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:35.800 do you know what I mean? Like I deserve it, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.080 give me, give me a punishment. I'm like, no, I 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:42.000 was perfect. No, I I was always one of those 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.040 kids that it meant far more to me if I 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.840 it was far worse to disappoint my parents than it 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.360 was to get in trouble like I was, so like 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.200 you know, just I I really you know if I 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:58.160 disappointed my family like that felt shitty, Like that was 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.280 an interaction right there, like you were probably temperamentally going 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.560 to lean in that direction and then you had a 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.280 dad that would respond in such a way that sure, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.360 of course it was worse. And so I would say 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.280 all those quis, I mean, there are, without a doubt 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.120 some basic principles and I'm sure, but but I would say, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.400 without a doubt, it's about your individual kid and you 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.360 as a parent and how that fits together. So it's 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.719 different for every kid. But like, what about these I 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.679 used to be I was a nanny for like fifteen years, right, 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.880 and like some like I baby sat in a Rye 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.560 household right where if a kid had a tantrum, it 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.640 was very much a lot about I see that you're 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.920 very upset. I hear that you're upset, and I would 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.920 be there for the child and just really go through 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:41.720 it with them, and it was over in a few minutes, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.040 Like it wasn't that big of a deal and I 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.800 wasn't trying to change the current thing. I also worked 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.160 in households where time outs were like a big thing, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.600 you know, And I I don't know where I fall. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.560 I think I lean definitely more towards the Rye method, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.640 but I know that my husband don't. Just to get 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.679 back to your comment about well, why did I have 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.880 a child, and get you onto the moment positive side 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.800 of that question. You know, when you think about the 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.040 upcoming years, when which will be full of limit testing 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.440 and and and every day there will be more of it, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.120 and and you will often feel like you wish there weren't. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.240 But when you think about it, if you just kind 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.160 of flip the coin a little bit and think about, well, 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.560 these are opportunities for us to build our connection because 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.920 he's limits. He's testing those limits because he wants to 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:37.320 have me set them. And by setting them, I'm giving 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.120 him the example of how to behave in the world. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.920 How I can be the sort of commander of the ship, 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.840 keep things safe for him, make his world, you know, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.080 a functioning place, because I will set the limit. And 0:12:53.240 --> 0:13:00.480 I think Umlur is resolutely right that ye re gelman 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.160 is Lorie is absolutely right that there are there are 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.160 They're asking you to just say this is the limit, 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.480 and you can't go any further, and I won't let 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.160 you go any further. And that's what they want to hear, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.440 and that's what they need to hear. And by doing that, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.719 you are establishing again reconnecting with them. So I have 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.120 to change it in my brain, to change it in 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.160 my brain. You're you know, we're not on different teams. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.480 You guys know, and you need to do You need 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.559 to show the united front that is the same. They 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.240 will sense they can smell a crack in the armor. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.880 So you always have a united front with the parents there. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.080 You meant that you and your kid were on the 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:39.760 same team, and then you're seeing you in your I 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.680 met you and your kid, I mean, because this is 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.600 the same team. I mean the joyful parts of parenting, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.360 we all know what those are. But you know, also 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.480 the setting limits is almost more important and can you 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.240 know in some way sort of deeply more joyful because 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.760 you're being strong, You're meeting your child where he is. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.520 Like I use the metaphor often of like a fourteen 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.839 year old doesn't have a curfew, who deep down wants 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.240 a curfew, and that kid is going to show off 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.040 to all his friends that he doesn't have a curfew, 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.720 and that kid's going to in the moment be like, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.600 this is freaking awesome. I get to stay out till 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.480 three in the morning and like pizza, and then at 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.560 three in the morning he's by himself, and it's like, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.560 I just wish my parents would step up and be 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.920 the grown ups, and part of being the grown up 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.120 is setting a limit, and it can be over time, 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.400 really anxiety provoking for kids to feel like they hold 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.840 so much power in the equation that there. It's not 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.320 to say that limits can't be nurturing and collaborating and whatever, 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.920 but they also do need to know there's an overall 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.760 structure in place that they're not so powerful that they 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.320 can break, because that's terrifying as a four year old. 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.640 If you think you're steering the shop at four, it's, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.120 over time, a pretty damaging place to live. I was 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.280 raised by wolves. I mean I was the sixth child. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.400 Oh my god, was literally I would I would come 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.080 home from a three nights sleep out when I was 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.560 in seventh grade, um like with the school, and I 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.520 my mother forgot I was coming home and she didn't 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:09.560 pick me up at the school. So I had to 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.520 lug all my stuff home and I walk into the 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.240 kids and she's like, oh, your home, did you have 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.880 a good time? I mean, I hated that part of 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.600 my life. I hate I loved the kids who you know, 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:20.720 whose parents were always on them about this and that. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.120 I envied those kids. And now when my daughters begged 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:25.960 me not to go to their volleyball games or their 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.240 cross games or whatever. I'm like, I don't give a 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:32.040 ship what you want every single game because no one ever, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.640 no one ever came to my games. It would literally 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.360 be oh did you win? Like nobody cared, and I 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.080 want I don't want my either girl to ever feel 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.240 like I don't care about what's going on in their life. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.760 That's so nice. So can you give me each of 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.800 you guys, like specific ways that adults said. I know 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:53.920 it's different on the age, but like how you would 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.320 set a limit, like is a time out of thing? 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.520 Is it? Is it? Like? No, you can't do that? 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.960 What about the word no? Like teach me what I'm 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:07.680 supposed to or less? Um you're looking at read your book, 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.120 read your book, read your books obviously. Um, I think 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.120 that there's some bait. Okay, So when you talk about 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.840 time outs and you talk about nurturing and being empathic, 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.520 I think we've talked about what we're talking about. Like 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.000 if your child is having an emotional reaction to not 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.240 getting another cookie, that is an emotional reaction that wouldn't 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.840 ever marrit a time out by I mean, if we're 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.320 talking about specifically tantrums, even people who use time outs. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.200 Timeouts are one of, let me just say, one of 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.160 the most widely misunderstood and misapplied concepts of all time. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.760 And I'm happy to go through why if anybody's interested 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.840 in hearing that. I think they can be and have 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.560 been shown over and over and over again to be 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.800 very useful and effective if done in a very specific 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.920 way and context. Um, they've gone off the rails, and 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.320 then they've been misunderstood and then oh yeah, you mean 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.240 like making the kids sit in like a naughty chair 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.440 and counting down for a certain amount of time for 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.200 crying too loud, which is never what I mean. That's 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.720 sort of it's meant to be like for a discreet 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:13.800 behavior that you and your child have been able to 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.040 decide upon in advance in a home with a lot 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.199 of warm and love and time in all the time, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.640 a very quick taking away of attention for a very 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.600 concrete period of time when that child gets bored because 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.000 they can't do anything like that. That it's and it's 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:31.440 We had that in my house. It was called the 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.119 naughty chair. It was fucking hilarious. We loved it. We 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.520 had two chairs like you and your husband. No, my 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.960 parents like they're you know, they were making it up 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:41.520 on the spot. They were like five years old when 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.080 they had us, and they just like really didn't know 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.560 what they were doing and was probably yeah, oh, my 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.080 dad's such an emotional being, like he's so open, and 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.200 my mom is. Um, they were just both not great 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.720 at the word discipline like they I mean, we had 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.479 curfews and all of that stuff. But um, you know, 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.320 if we were really if it was if my brother 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.000 and I were super mean to each other, was normally 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.040 where we would get into big trouble. You know, like 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.000 you can't say shut up to each other, you can't 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.960 call each other stupid, you can't hit each other, you know, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:10.880 things like that. And when that would get out of control, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:12.960 it would say, okay, the two of you have to 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:17.960 go sit in those shares and face the wall fall. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.359 We would sit there for like four minutes, and then 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:21.520 by the end of the four or five minutes would 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.679 be hysterical laughing at each other and it would be 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.560 over and sort of quelched. But um, I guess that 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.480 was their equivalent of sort of a time out, like 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.040 a break in the in the cycle. Little kids so 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:32.520 much We talked about this a little bit before the 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.479 mics were on um and and Chris and I think 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.440 you were here. Who setting kids up for success? I 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.800 mean so much, I would say, is being able to 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.680 anticipate on the front end what your child is like, 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.879 what you are like, what are your hot button issues? 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:48.560 Like you'll probably notice as Albi gets a little older 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.680 there are things that he does that make you insane 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.760 and your husband's sitting there like perfectly okay. Then he 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.800 does something that you thought was funny, and your husband's 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:57.800 about to lose his mind. And so it's figuring out 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.800 like who am I? Who am I with my partner? 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.520 Who is my kid? Not in this dog, not in 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.440 this like crazy shrinky like after take notes and understanding, 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.040 but just myke you know my kid gets cranky at 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.000 X time of day, Like if I bring a snack, 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.720 I can avoid a lot of the you know, it's 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.639 a lot of that kind of cutting it off of 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.720 the past, like knowing that maybe your kids having a 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.840 meltdown because you brought them to this thing so the 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.119 nap was skipped. So there we're setting them up for 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.879 a total possible ship storm, right of course, And it 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.560 can be something even from last week. You know, we 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.119 had we had family in town for the whole week 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.960 and everything was great and everyone was having fun, and 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.720 all of a sudden, my my son is doing these 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.800 strange things that he's never done before. And you won't 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.400 behave in this you know the ways that he has 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.400 behaved before, and I wonder what that's about. It's like, oh, right, 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.919 he's had to be on and be behaving list and 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.520 he's had a completely different environment for the whole for 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.320 the whole week, which and all of it was fine. 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.600 You're like, well that went well, but you know he 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.720 may be showing the signs of it a week later. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.119 That's really good to read. The book Mama, Mama, Lama, Lama, 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.960 mad At Mama. Yeah, that's a brilliant book because it 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.119 really does. It makes so much sense. Like he was 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:10.360 just about taking nap and then he had to wake 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.200 up because he had to go, and so all these 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.080 things are coming into play and he finally has a 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.960 meltdown and the mother is trying to figure out why. 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.560