1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hey everyone, and welcome to a 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: tech stuff on Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren foc Obaum 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: the day. We want to do the first of a 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: two part series on a particular developer of video games. 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: I mean an actual video game developer, not not a 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: company a company, but a person and uh uh kind of. 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean this is someone who has a really interesting 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: take on the design of video games and he his 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: work has been incredibly influential. He's talked about as a 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: revolutionary or a hero to other game developers. I think 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: he was named in the top five and one survey 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: from two thousand nine, right, and he has won numerous awards. 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: We are, of course talking about sid Meyer. Uh And 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: so anyone out there who has played a lot of 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: computer games, you've probably heard sid Meyer's name, particularly since 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: his name is often it's part of the brand. Yeah, 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: it's featured on the actual game titles. So before we 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: get into this, I want to give a shout out. 20 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: We grab our our information from numerous resources while we're 21 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: researching our topics, but one article in particular for this 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: this part of the podcast was incredibly helpful. And that 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: was an article written by Jason Schreyer over at Kotaku, 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: and it was called sid Meyer The Father of Civilization, 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: So civilization civilization being one of the many titles. Yeah, 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: anyway that I would say, that's a must read if 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: you are interested in sid Meyer and the story of 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: civilization as well as just the story of the companies 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: that sid Meier has been a part of. Go check 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: out that article. It was based on a series of 31 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: interviews with UM with sid Meyer, UM, a fellow named 32 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: Bill Steely and Um one of the other participants in 33 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: the companies, but a series of interviews from so so 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: it's all really great fresh information. Um. There's another really 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: terrific article I wanted to mention and um uh an 36 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: article in Ghana Sutra called the History of Civilization that 37 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: was written by BENJ. Edwards and it was based on 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: a sid Meyer interview as well. And both of these 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: were just terrific instrumental, Yeah, fantastic stuff. You guys should 40 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: go read those and and the civilization centric article will 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: become really important for the second part of our podcast. 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: But this first one we're going to focus mostly on 43 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: sid Meyer's background and his early years in computer game development. 44 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: He was born on February nineteen fifty four in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. 45 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, this guy's Canadian okay shows over must 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: that must explain why he's why he's so nice. That 47 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: does explain why he's so nice, and and that's not 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: us being silly or anything. He's been called one of 49 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: the nicest video game developers by multiple people. Yeah, it 50 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: seems like everyone who works with him, who has given 51 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: an interview that we could find on the interwebs was 52 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: was just full of nothing but nice things to say 53 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: about the man personally. I've watched several interviews with him 54 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: where he, you know, he was being interviewed by other people, 55 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: and again, he just comes across as sort of a 56 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: very genuine personal guy who loves to design games. So 57 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: it's gonna be really hard for me to be snarky 58 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: in this podcast, But I find places. I think you 59 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: will find a way. So um So. He he went 60 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: to the University of Michigan and graduated with a degree 61 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: in computer science. This was back when you know, that 62 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: wasn't really a common thing. Yeah. In fact, back in 63 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: those days, he was programming computers through punch cards. So, 64 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: if you've listened to earlier episodes of tech Stuff, I 65 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: mean way back in the day, you've heard of us 66 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: talk about these punch cards that were uh, you know, 67 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: it was a painstaking process. Your your your program might 68 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: consist of more than a hundred punch cards, and you 69 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: had to keep them in a precise order for the 70 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: program to work properly. If you were to have an 71 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: accident and you had not numbered your punch cards, that's it. 72 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Your programs ruined. So yeah, um, this the first computer 73 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: that he used was at the University of Michigan. It 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: was an IBM three sixty main frames. Um learned how 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: the program in fortran as I recall, right, yeah, yeah, 76 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: he at some point used this I mean you know 77 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: that this was all time sharing and and uh you 78 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: had to sign up for for use of the thing. 79 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: And at some point he designed a tic tac toe 80 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: game for it, supposedly and almost got kicked out for 81 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: wasting computer time right right, essentially, from what I understand, 82 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: one of the administrators of the program called up the 83 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: person who was responsible for securing that computer for the 84 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: university and said, do you have any idea what the 85 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: student is doing? He is wasting valuable resources on games? 86 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: Who would ever waste a computer on games? As it 87 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: turns out, that was probably one of the silliest things 88 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: that someone could say. Also, when he was a kid, 89 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: he had already grown interested in the concept of games. 90 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, he was a very imaginative child. 91 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: He talked about how he would play with little toy 92 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: soldiers and reenact battles with them. And he credits the 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: gift that was given to him, a book called the 94 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: American Heritage Picture History of the Civil War, as getting 95 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: him interested in history, and that obviously becomes very important 96 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: with some of the titles that he would produce. So 97 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: right right, I also remember reading that he played a 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: lot of risk as a kid. Yes, so he he 99 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: liked games, he liked history. These were things that really 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: interested him. And he loved computers and it still does 101 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: love computers and programming. So when you look at all 102 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: three of these factors, the computer programing, genuine verd urged 103 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: to conquer the world. That's but in a nice way. 104 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: You know, he's doing it for your own good, Lauren. 105 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: It's it's not that he's got any malice. He just 106 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: it's through the development of technology, which we all know 107 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: is a terrific way to win. As Dr Horrible would say, 108 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the world's mess and he just needs to rule it. 109 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: So anyway, uh yeah, he began to wonder, would it 110 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: be like if you could go and you know, with 111 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: your own abilities, if you were to be able to 112 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: go back into history and take control of some massive 113 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: force that had been instrumental in a battle, and and 114 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: you were to control them and make different decisions, what 115 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: would be the outcome? And this was kind of the 116 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: seed that would be planted in his head later on 117 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: down the road. So, uh, he loved programming, he loved 118 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: hacking electronics, and he he would build his own version 119 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: of of games he saw out there, and yeah he 120 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: had at eight and um would yeah program his own 121 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: kind of versions of like Space Invaders I think is 122 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: one of them in basic. Yeah, he said that that 123 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: was one of the earliest games that he developed for 124 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: the personal computer. The eight hundred, by the way, had 125 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: sixteen kilobytes of memory. Yeah yeah, so, uh, you know, 126 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm sure Space Invaders probably was stressing that machine out 127 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. Probably. I am being a little 128 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: silly snarky there, but uh but yeah, he he started 129 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: making these. He began to work for General Instruments Corporation 130 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: as a programmer, and he also would occasionally bring in 131 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: some of the games he had created and put them 132 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: up on the offices network, and you know, would eventually 133 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: have to have them taken down because productivity in the 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: office would take a dive. Yeah, it turns out his 135 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: manager would call up that old university guy up and say, hey, 136 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: do you know what your former student is doing. Actually 137 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: that that's not entirely true, but the same sort of thing. 138 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: He was creating games and sharing them and taking enjoyment 139 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: from other people, having a fun time with his games. 140 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 1: And he met someone at General Instruments Corporation who would 141 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: become instrumental in those early early days. Uh. A guy 142 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: who has a great nickname is John Wild. Bill Steely 143 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: usually just called Bill, yeah or wild Bill or wild 144 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: but yeah, this this was a guy who had been 145 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: UM major in the Air Force. Yeah. In fact, I 146 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: think at the time he still was an active major. 147 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: He was a former fighter pilot. So, um, if you 148 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: guys don't know what fighter pilots are like, I recommend 149 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: watching the documentary Top Gun. Now, keep in mind that's 150 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: Navy pilots, not air force pilots. What you're just staring 151 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: at me like like in judgment. I can't I can't imagine. 152 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: Why do you not have the need the need for speed? 153 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: All right? So, anyway, according to that Kotaku article we 154 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: talked about said Meyer, Meyer and Steely both attended an 155 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: electronics trade conference and while they were there, they just 156 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: kind of were exploring and they apparently found a room 157 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: full of old arcade machines. Actually at that time they 158 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: were new arcade machines, right right, Um, they started playing 159 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of them, and Meyer was just beating Steely's 160 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: but at all of Steely was getting a little frustrated. 161 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: And then they found the red baron. The red baron 162 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: being a flight sim yeah kind of yeah, it was, yeah, 163 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: for for what it was at the time, sort of 164 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: a flight simulator. It is kind of a shooter that 165 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: was a World War Two based air airplane shooter end up. 166 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: And Steely takes one look at it and he says, 167 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: this is me. I got this. I'm a fighter pilot. 168 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: I am going to rule this. And so Steely stepped 169 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: up to the box first and uh and and got 170 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: like like on the top three of the Yeah, I 171 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: think he actually managed to land the high score, you know, 172 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: like like points something like that. So yeah, And it 173 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: turns to Myron's like beat that torp, and Meyers steps 174 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: up and calmly takes control of the arcade machine. What happened, Lauren? 175 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: He doubled Steely's score. Yeah, And then Steely looks and 176 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: and says, wait a minute. I am a fighter pilot. 177 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: I am a major in the United States Air Force. 178 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: How did you manage to do that? Meyer says, well, 179 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: while you were playing, I just memorized the algorithms that 180 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: the computer was using. Yeah, that's something you know. I 181 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: actually used to do very similar things when I was 182 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 1: at the arcade. I would my dad watch the way 183 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: the computer reacted to other people. I would watch and 184 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: watch people play for a good half hour to an 185 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: hour before I would ever put a quarter in, so 186 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: I could see what was happening. And I wouldn't just 187 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: wander in blind because the quarters I had were few 188 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: and precious to me, and I did want to play 189 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: these arcade games, but I wanted to make the experience 190 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: last as long as possible. Now, I will go ahead 191 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: and tell you my algorithm recognized recognization skills are really 192 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: minor compared to what Meyer was able to do. Well, 193 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: that's that's fair. I think. I think being worse at 194 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: s admire than at computer algorithms is it's probably okay, Okay, 195 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't have to feel like I don't have to 196 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 1: have some sort of inferiority complex over that. No, no, 197 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: But so so according to the story, um at there 198 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: after this debacle, um, you know, Meyer kind of casually 199 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: throughout like, you know, this was a pretty okay game, 200 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: but I could totally write a better one. And Steely's like, uh, 201 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: if you can do that, I can totally sell that game. 202 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: And so Meyer did it. Meyer went home and over 203 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: the next few months designed a a fighter pilot game. Yeah. 204 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: In fact, depending upon which version of the story you see, 205 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: and there are different versions, I mean, keep in mind 206 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of the information about these early days, 207 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: this is stuff that people are talking about decades after 208 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: it happened. Oh sure, and it's it's all it's all 209 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: very kind of colloquial, and everyone was kind of joking 210 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: around about it and remembering it fondly. But you know, yeah, 211 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: so so get a little fuzzy with the details. But 212 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: depending upon whom you ask, It was like a couple 213 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: of weeks beforehand. Then he came back. And again this 214 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: also gets a little confusing because, um, there are different 215 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: reports on what the very first game Sidmyer made what 216 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: it was called. But according to the Kataku article, the 217 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: one that they settled on as being this is the 218 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: game we're going to try and sell was called hell 219 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: Cat Ace. That was a World War two combat flight simulator. 220 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: And it was more than just a shoot them up, 221 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, top scroll game or something. This was a 222 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: game that actually allowed you to take control of World 223 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: War two aircraft and do some advanced piloting maneuvers, things 224 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: like impleman turns and loops and you could stall your 225 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: plane out or roll it and all that kind of stuff. 226 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: And so they started with with supposedly like like dollars 227 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: in startup and you know, self printed copies of the 228 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: game and like xerox copies of the instruction manual and 229 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: put them in zip block bags and and started taking 230 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: them to hobby stores around town. Yeah. In fact, this 231 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: was in Baltimore, Maryland, right right, Yes, uh, yeah, it 232 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: was Baltimore, Maryland is where they were based out of. 233 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: Because that's where General Instruments had their headquarters. And this 234 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: is not this is not an unusual story, by the way. 235 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: This is how early computer games really got started. You 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: had programmers who are working out of their homes usually 237 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: most of the time. They were doing this on their 238 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: own time. It was not a full time gig yet, 239 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: and they would produce stuff, put them in these bags, 240 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: and then sell them at a computer store. And the 241 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: computer store would would then mark up the price or whatever. 242 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: And often you would walk in and there'd be a 243 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: bulletin board on the side of the wall in the 244 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: computer store. Because keep in mind, these were not computer 245 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: game stores. These were stores that sold computers and computer components. 246 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: This was just something else you could buy in that store. 247 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: So you would go and there'd be a bolton board 248 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: and there would be thumb tax that would have these games, 249 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: you know, tacked to the side of the bolten board 250 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: and going you basically you would base your your purchase 251 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: decision on what the artwork look like on the xerox 252 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: sheet that was showing through. Yeah, yeah, and I mean 253 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: and this was all in the early eighties. I'd say 254 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: eight to eighty one probably is when all of this 255 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: was occurring. Yeah. Yeah. This is at the very dawn 256 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: of the personal computer revolution, and of course at this 257 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: time the people who owned the personal computers are in 258 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: large part hobbyists. There are we're starting to see other 259 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: people by personal computers by the early eighties, but it's 260 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: largely still hobbyists. It's a niche market. So um, what 261 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: I love is the story about how Steely would convince 262 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: stores to carry Hellcat a ce. See. He would actually 263 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,359 Speaker 1: travel all the way from New York down to Washington, 264 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: d C. That was the area that he would consider 265 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: his territory, not just Baltimore. So I'm going to quote 266 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: him from the Kotaku article. Now, this is actually what 267 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: Steely told the reporter. He said, I would call computer 268 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: stores and ask to buy Hellcat Ace, and when they 269 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: didn't have it, I would yell and scream at them, 270 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: what kind of computer store are you? And then I'd 271 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: hang up. I would do that three times in three weeks, 272 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: each time pretending to be a different person. And the 273 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: fourth week I'd call and say, hello, this is John Steely. 274 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: I'm a representative with micropros this I've got this game 275 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: called Hellcat Ace, and they'd say, hey, whoa whoa everyone's 276 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: been calling about that. Can you help us get that game? 277 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: Nice one? Steely? Yeah, and you can you can? You 278 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: know this this illustrates the kind of relationship that Steely 279 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: and Meyer had at this time. You know, Steely was 280 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: very much the public persona and very much the get 281 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: him a salesman. And as it turns out, I mean again, 282 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: if you read interviews where you see interviews with Meyer, 283 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: you learned that this is exactly the way Meyer wanted 284 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: things to go. Because Meyer was a business guy, you know, 285 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: he he wanted the freedom to be able to develop 286 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: the games that he thought would be fun and and 287 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: this was a great arrangement. He didn't have to worry 288 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: about the business side. He that did not interest him 289 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: at all. I mean, he certainly wanted to make a 290 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: living off of it. That was his dream job, but 291 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: he did not want to be the one to have 292 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: to handle all those details. That's not his strong suit. 293 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: He just wanted to concentrate on making the And this 294 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: reminds me a lot. I mean, Lauren and I both 295 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: have a lot of friends who are artists, who are 296 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: actors or musicians, and many of them on you know, 297 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: wish that they could do that that they could have, 298 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: and some of them do have managers or whatever that 299 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: you know. That's that's I hear. I hear that all 300 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: the time, like someone just going like, why can't someone 301 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: just market this for me? I just want to write 302 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: another thing. Why can't someone else book me for the 303 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: next gig? Because because it's already pouring your love and 304 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: energy into what you want to do, that that's that 305 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: takes up a lot, you know, and then too, on 306 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: top of that, be the one who's responsible for all 307 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: the business side can be absolutely draining. So Maya really 308 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: had a great thing going here. He had he had 309 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the guy who was going to do all the legwork 310 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: and he got to do all the development work. So 311 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: it's a great relationship for both guys at this time. 312 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: So um. At first the two continue to work exclusively 313 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: for general instruments and they would sell these games and 314 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: time and their free time. But eventually Steely was making 315 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: enough money doing this that he could try and create 316 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: his own company. In fact, according to Steely, at the 317 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: height of this, before he had even founded Micropros, they 318 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: were making about two hundred thousand dollars a year just 319 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: on computer game sales and and and micropros Uh. Jonathan 320 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: mentioned this name, and that quote from Steely was they 321 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: had already started calling themselves micropros Um, which would be 322 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: the name of their company in our next bullet point. 323 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, but um, but yeah, they had 324 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: not actually founded any kind of official company yet, right, 325 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: it was. It was kind of a name because otherwise 326 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: you'd say, we're two guys who are wanting to sell 327 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: this game to you, and that just doesn't work quite 328 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: as it doesn't doesn't have that ring to it. So yeah, yeah, yeah, 329 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: So they're still working for General Instruments at that point, 330 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: but that would quickly come upon a time where Steely 331 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: realized this is something we can do ourselves and we 332 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: don't need a day job anymore, or at least Steely 333 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: didn't at first. So Steely makes a big jump and 334 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: decides to leave General Instruments in order to work full 335 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: time on the micropros project. Now, there's a lot more 336 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: to talk talk about with MicroProse, but before we do that, 337 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and thank our sponsor. Back 338 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: to the show, all right, So we've got Steely. He 339 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: has left to found micropros himself. Now for the first 340 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: year and a half or so of Micropros. This is 341 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: two by the way. For that first year and a half, 342 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: Meyer was still working at General Instruments as a full 343 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: time employee and producing games in his off time. Uh, 344 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: Steely was concentrating full time on selling the games. And 345 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't until about midnight three that Meyer felt comfortable 346 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: leaving General Instruments and working full time for Micropros. It 347 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: was also that was about the time when Steely could 348 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: actually afford to hire him on as a full time employee. So, uh, 349 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: now we've got this, this whole company that's starting up, 350 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: and it's it's good now to talk about what Meyer 351 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: thinks is important when you're making a video game, because 352 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: that informs all all of his decisions moving forward as 353 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: far as game design is concerned. Right, and um, Meyer 354 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: talks a lot about um, you know, a good game 355 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: being a series of meaningful choices, give the player interesting choices, 356 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: choices that are meaningful and interesting, and that is what 357 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: makes a game fun. And and I think that that's 358 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's such a simple philosophy. It's one of 359 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: those things that's the that it's deceptively simple, because creating 360 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: something that actually feels like a meaningful choice to a 361 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: player is easier said than done. But but Meyer was 362 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: was really adamant about He says that if it if 363 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: it feels like it doesn't matter what you choose to do, 364 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: or or if what you do has little to no 365 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: impact on the game, it's not that satisfying. It might 366 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: be challenging to play, but it's not necessarily a satisfying experience, 367 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: right And and he also um he He also talks 368 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot about wanting to to give players the choice 369 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: to create their own storylines, to not direct the storyline 370 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: to directly right right. He didn't want it to have 371 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: like his games to have a linear plot for example. 372 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: So we think about a lot of games. We talk 373 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: about games all the time on tech stuff in the 374 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: other shows that we do as well. Yeah, we actually 375 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: just did an episode on forward thinking about storytelling, which 376 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: this was reminding me of so much, right right, So, 377 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: so for example, we talked in that episode of forward thinking. 378 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: By the way, if you guys are not watching and 379 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: listening to forward Thinking, go check it out. I think 380 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: you would really dig it. If you enjoy tech stuff, 381 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: you'll totally enjoy forward thinking. Yeah, I write a friend 382 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: Joe joins us for the podcast, and he's just terrific. 383 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: He is, and he has that the the ax that 384 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: he brings to every podcast. He has a mystical ax. Yeah, 385 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: the plastic. Yeah, just don't worry. We're not in danger right, well, 386 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: no more so than usual at any rate. In that podcast, 387 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: in the Storytelling podcast, we talked a lot about the 388 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: the video game The Last of Us, which is out 389 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: for the PlayStation three now. The Last of Us is, 390 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 1: in my opinion, a wonderful video game. I love it 391 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: very much. However, it is somewhat linear and you could 392 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: argue that the choices the player makes do not in 393 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: the end impact the story that much, which is not 394 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: the approach that Sidmyer likes to take. He likes to 395 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: take a different approach. This does not mean that one 396 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: approach is automatically better or worse than the other. They 397 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: are different with different goals. So yeah, my favorite quote 398 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: from Meyer about this is I prefer games where the 399 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: player can lead the game in the direction that they 400 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: want and then they kind of end up with that 401 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: unique story that only they can know, right, And that's 402 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: you know that that is a very valid point of view. 403 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: It's also very challenging to do in a way that 404 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: it's a designer, right, because letting the player come to 405 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: those conclusions for themselves is very tricky. Yeah, because if 406 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: you just give a player an open world and no 407 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: direction at all, then it's really hard to get something going, 408 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: to make something happen. Uh. You might be able to 409 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: make some tiny thing or or temporary thing happen, but 410 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: there's if there's not enough to tie a game together, 411 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 1: then it's again more confusing than satisfying. So finding that 412 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: balance is really tricky. But but he did it well 413 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: enough that the next year when the video game industry 414 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: crash happened. Yeah, oh, and how it happened, it happened 415 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: a whole bunch um. Uh. You know that there were 416 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: just so many, so many games that were not great 417 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: that we're being pushed out very quickly by development teams 418 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: for for the Atari, right, Yeah, especially things I mean, 419 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: obviously we've talked about this so many times, but but 420 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: titles like ports like pac Man for there, or of 421 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: course the one that everyone always quotes, including myself, et 422 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: the Extraterrestrial, the the game that was so bad that 423 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: they grounded up and buried it in the desert Um. Yeah, 424 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: it's you know, these were these were games that that 425 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: flooded the market. It diluted the market, It made everything 426 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: less valuable. Plus you had lots of different consoles hitting 427 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: the market all at once, and it just there was 428 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: just too much and it could not support itself. And 429 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: eventually the industry collapsed in on itself. And you would think, okay, 430 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: so they tiny throw it up from the previous year. 431 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: That doesn't look good for them. But but they but 432 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: they lived through it. Um they continued selling games. Yeah. 433 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: Part of it was that they were developing computer games, 434 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: not console games, and a lot of people were moving 435 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: toward computers and they were feeling you know, kind of 436 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: like exactly, so in a way, they were in the 437 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: right place at the right time. Plus with sid Meier's 438 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: philosophy of you know, you're you're taking this simple approach 439 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: and then adding complexity, and that makes a simple game 440 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: into a very deep and compelling game. But you make 441 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: it you add that complexity in a way that the 442 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: player can can uh grow and learn with as opposed 443 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: to just throwing everything at them at once. This approach 444 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: really worked out well and so uh, one of the 445 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: games that was released and I actually found gameplay video 446 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: footage of this. I remember this one. I remember Floyd 447 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: of the Jungle. You remember Floyd of the Jungle. I 448 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: very dimly have this man until image. Yeah. So it's 449 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: it's a platformer game, a side scrolling platform were not 450 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: even side scrolling, it's just a side view but the 451 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: platform or game kind of similar to the old Donkey 452 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Kong game. And your character could run around, jump and 453 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: climb up vines to try and rescue other characters from 454 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: impending jungle doom. And up to four people could play 455 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: at the same time, which made it, you know, kind 456 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: of a remarkable game. This is a computer game where 457 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: you four people are all playing. Uh, they're all trying 458 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: to race around and and save this vaguely feminine figure 459 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: from doom, the more feminine blob it's opposed to the 460 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: more masculine block. Yes, well you you were you knew 461 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a princess. But the idea 462 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: was that, uh that you know, you were competing against 463 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: these up to three other players to try and rescue 464 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: her first, and they are all these other obstacles and 465 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: dangerous animals in the way. That's a that's a terrific 466 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: gender normative thing right there. That's anyway, that's simpler times. 467 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: It was three anyway. Um, So I remember the eighties, 468 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: So it was around then that that Meyer started going 469 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: to game developer conferences. There was one in particular out 470 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: in San Jose, Um where he met up with with 471 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: people like Will Wright who would go on to create 472 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: some city um and uh Dan Bunten of Mule. So 473 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: anyone who's played Mule that was ah. That was a 474 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: very popular game in the early eighties as well. And 475 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: mostly these guys would meet up and they talked about 476 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: how they liked each other's games a lot. Yeah, it 477 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: sounded like they all just would just nerd out, like 478 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: I like your game, you like my game, I like 479 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: your game. Yeah, But there was no real collaboration. In fact, 480 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: Meyer would say, like, you know, we admired each other, 481 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: we thought that the games were fun, and I think 482 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: that they influenced each other, um indirectly, you know, take 483 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: sure parts of each other's work that they admired, and 484 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: they would look at something and say, wow, I never 485 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: thought that a computer game could do that. How did 486 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: they do that? How how could we use something that's 487 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: similar to that? So it wasn't so much like like 488 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's plagiarism, but it was certainly taking 489 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: inspiration from the work of others. Uh yeah. And and 490 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: Meyers said that they were all kind of really focused 491 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: on what they themselves were doing to the point where 492 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: they didn't really want to share it with anyone else. 493 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: They wanted to be able to build it themselves and 494 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: then release it and kind of continue this this uh, 495 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: this trend of oh, that game you made was really great, 496 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: as opposed to come here and help me make this 497 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: really great game. So it's kind of there's like a 498 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: little bit of competition and a little bit of showmanship 499 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: going on, but it was it was a lot of 500 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: mutual appreciation as well. So by five a game called 501 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: fifteen Strike Eagle, another another combat combat flight sim um, 502 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: had had been released and went gold yep. And then 503 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: you got the game called Silent Service, which was a 504 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: submarine simulation game. Now, these simulation games, this is what 505 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: Steely wanted to seize, especially military based right right, because 506 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: he this was this made sense to him. This was 507 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: the stuff that he thought had a strong following in 508 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: the in the computer game world, and as a member 509 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: of the armed Forces. It was something that spoke directly 510 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: to him, so he was fully behind this, and in fact, 511 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: Meyer would say that there were times where where Steely 512 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: essentially just one admire to churn out, not continue making 513 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: flight sims over and over and over. Right, churn out 514 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: is probably a too too harsh a term, but yeah, 515 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: that's exact Meyers too polite to say that, but I 516 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: feel like that's how he was probably feeling. Right. So 517 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: sid Meyer creates a game that goes outside this realm 518 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: of the military simulator, and it's the game I alluded 519 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: to back in the when I was talking about Pirates, 520 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: because sid Meyer's Pirates comes out Pirates with an exclamation point. 521 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: This game, Oh, I will never forget the exclamation point. Okay, 522 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: I owned a game a version of this game. I 523 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: want to say I even owned it on the Apple 524 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: to E, which was probably a port of Pirates, because 525 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: he would he programmed most of his games on the 526 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: IBM PC once he moved away from the Atari eight hundred. 527 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: So Pirates is ah it's a game where you take 528 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: the role of an aspiring pirate. In fact, at the 529 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: very beginning of the game, you are I think a 530 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: stowaway aboard a pirate ship, and you end up challenging 531 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: the captain for the control of the ship, and you 532 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: have a duel with the captain. Presuming that you win 533 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: the duel, you then go on to captain a ship 534 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: and you try and make your name in the Caribbean, 535 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: and you can do things like uh, sack towns. Sometimes 536 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: you can become a privateer for a particular nation. So 537 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: you might sign a letter of mark with the British 538 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: and now you can act upon behalf of the British. 539 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: And so if if if Britain is at war with Spain, 540 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: you can pirate Spain all you want. Yeah, and you can. 541 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: You can get credit from the Brits while Spain is 542 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: shaking its fist and going out there. I want my 543 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: silver back. But Sish Yeah noah bla Spano unfortunately. So 544 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: but anyway, it was a whatever I look, I speak. 545 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: I speak English and I speak it poorly anyway, so uh. 546 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: It was very much kind of a swashbuckling sort of 547 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: pirate game. It wasn't meant to be a historically accurate 548 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: depiction of pirates, although it was set between the years 549 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: that people generally think of as the Golden Age of piracy. 550 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: You could play very early on, like in the fifteen 551 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: sixties if you wanted to, but it was more challenging 552 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: because there were fewer reports to actually work with. So 553 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: if you ticked off a faction, you quickly find yourself 554 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: hard pressed to get rid of all that filthy luker 555 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: you managed to get. Like, you know, when you were 556 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: piating ships, you would end up with um with massive 557 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: amounts of various goods, and so it wasn't just money. 558 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: You had to find a way to offload the goods, 559 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: and you wanted to find a good sell price, which 560 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: meant that you know, you didn't want to take everybody off. 561 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: So I take it that you were a fan of 562 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: this game. I liked it. I played this game a 563 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: lot and uh and and there have been multiple revisions 564 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: of this game. We're not going to talk about every 565 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: single game Sidmyer has had a hand in, obviously, and 566 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: especially not the all of the sequels, because that that 567 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: would be exhausted, but so so Pirates was literally that 568 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: would be exhausting. That's the word that I was looking for. Anyway, 569 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: exhaustive and exhausting. It's yeah, it's it was a great game. 570 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: Obviously I loved it very very much. Uh and they 571 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, re released it a couple of times with 572 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: the revisions, including an Xbox version which I also owned. 573 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: Um So, anyway, that this was a departure from those 574 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: military combat simulators. Um and and it was such a 575 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: departure that the decision was made at some point to 576 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: put sid Meier's name on the box, call it sid 577 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: Meier's Pirates because previously um his you know, just to 578 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: be like, hey, this developer that you like also had 579 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: a hand in this one, right right, maybe you want 580 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: to buy it? It was it was sort of the 581 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: the establishment of a new brand, sid Meyer as a brand, 582 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: not just as a person. According to steely Um, this 583 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: was a suggestion that happened at a dinner of the 584 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: Software Publishers Association that Robin Williams made. Robin Williams was 585 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: hanging out at the time and apparently made them laugh 586 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: for like two hours straight, and then eventually he turned 587 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: to stealing and said, what you should do is put 588 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: this guy's name on the box and make him a superstar. 589 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: So again, your mileage may very people have different stories 590 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: about why sid Meyer's name was attached to this this title, 591 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: but the fact is it was, and that became kind 592 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: of a kind of a trademark. Well, I mean really 593 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: literally it is a trademark, but it kind of became 594 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: a trademark in the sense that you would see a 595 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: lot more games come out Sid Meyer's blah blah blah 596 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: whatever the whatever the game title was, and um, you 597 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: know it was. It was interesting also because it gave 598 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: Meyer another challenge besides just building something that wasn't a 599 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: a combat simulator. Uh. He had to work within the 600 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: technical challenges of developing a game that needed to look 601 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: very lush and beautiful but within such limited processing power 602 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: for the time or at the time. Yeah, and he 603 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: began to develop some some pretty cool approaches to that, 604 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: so he actually pushed the video game development process forward 605 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: just by innovating in that way. Um. In development for 606 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: what would become Civilization started, um and and you know, 607 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: like with Pirates, Steely really wasn't excited about the game 608 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: um And in the beginning, and development would wind up 609 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: getting delayed multiple times so that other projects could be 610 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: pushed to the forefront. Yeah, we'll tell We'll tell the 611 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: whole story behind the development of Civilization later on in 612 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: the second part. Of this, right, it is it is 613 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, I think that that's the part that's certainly 614 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 1: the two of us are very interested in, and so 615 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: we wanted to break it off. And and it's devote 616 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: a lot of time too. It's it's so much stuff, 617 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: and and it kind of overlaps with a lot of 618 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: the other things that are happening in this timeline. We 619 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: figured to make it more of a cohesive story if 620 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: we just grouped it together. But by that's when Sid 621 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: Meier's Railroad Tycoon comes out, and this was another big departure. Right. 622 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: This was a business simulation game, not a combat simulation game, 623 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: and it was a real time strategy game where you 624 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: were trying to build railroads across the US and Europe. 625 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: Um uh. This was also the year that um Myer's 626 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: first son, I think only son, maybe Ryan, was born 627 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: to his first wife, um And it was also around 628 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: this time that um that Steely bought out Myers Shares 629 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: and MicroProse Um. This this was a voluntary move. Meyer, 630 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, knew that the company was starting to head 631 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: into the direction of of consoles and arcade machines, and 632 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: he wasn't really interested in pursuing that. He wasn't comfortable 633 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: being tied down to a company that was making some 634 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: choices that he felt were limiting his ability to create games. 635 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: That was you know again, that's all he was really 636 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: concerned with. Yeah. Yeah, So so a new VP of 637 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: Development took over from Meyer at Micropros um and and 638 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: this new VP didn't receive personal bonuses on Myers releases, 639 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: so which ended up being part of the sticky situation 640 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: that they would get into this civilization with that that 641 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: that led to the de prioritization of some of these titles. Yeah, yeah, 642 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: because he you know, Micropros was developing other games that 643 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: Sid Meyer did not have a hand in, because there 644 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: were there were more people working for Micropros now than 645 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: just Steely and Meyer, and they were they were putting 646 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: out a lot of games actually either um personally developing 647 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: or porting from from smaller companies, right, or they were 648 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: publishing stuff that was being developed by other companies. So 649 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: Micropros is not just a developer but also a publisher. 650 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: So they were publishing some games that were developed by 651 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: other developers. And so you know, the VP of Development, 652 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: he's getting bonuses on games that were developed by Micropros, 653 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: but not on games that were developed specifically by Sid Meyer, 654 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: like because sid was a was a contractor at the time, 655 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: so he didn't have a technical control over this. Yes, 656 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: so that uh, we're getting a little political, and we'll 657 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: get more political when we get into the full civilization story. Um. 658 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: But ninety that also was the point where, uh, the 659 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: civilization work really starts to kick into high gear. He 660 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: was coding it on an IBM PC at the time. 661 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 1: And then nine one, Uh you get to a point 662 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: where civilization actually publishes, um, and uh, you know, it's 663 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: it's a strategy game where you're actually trying to start 664 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: with a very basic unit of a particular nationality and 665 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: build a civilization and all that that entails almost prehistoric, 666 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: early historic. Yeah. Yeah, to the point, well, civilization you 667 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: haven't developed, you haven't developed reading and writing yet, because 668 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: that's one of the first that's one of the first 669 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: technologies you can develop in the game. Yeah. So you 670 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: start off as a nationality. You can choose which one, 671 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: and they have different advantages and disadvantages. Uh. You start 672 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 1: on a randomly generated map, although of course in later 673 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: versions of Civilization, if you wanted to, you could start 674 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: on the world map. Yea. The Earth's map at a 675 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: varying sizes depending upon which version of civilization you're playing UH, 676 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: and your goal was to try and create a civilization 677 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: winning the game. There were multiple ways to win. You 678 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: could either when based on points, the game would end 679 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: once it hit a certain year. I want to say, 680 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: it's like twift UM then UH if you had the 681 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: most points at that point. If you had the most 682 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: points at that time, you would end up winning. Or 683 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: you could getting points by UM by conquering and developing 684 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: technologies yep and UH and creating UH improvements to your cities, 685 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, so you know your population. Lots 686 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: of different factors would would be involved in creating your 687 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: final score. You could also take over other civilizations and 688 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: if you managed to do that to everybody, you know 689 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: one because there was no one to compete against UM. 690 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: There was another way of getting UH winning by being 691 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: the first to to send a space exploration colony out 692 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: to Alpha Centauri. Right. Because the you know the concept 693 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: of the game if you've never played them or never 694 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: really heard that much about them, is is that you 695 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: are you are developing all of the technologies necessary for 696 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: the civilization and it extends beyond the point where we 697 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: currently are now into hypothetically, if you get there, you 698 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: would eventually get to especially in things like Civilization too. 699 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: You would develop all the technologies in the game, and 700 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: then you because that part of the game would continue. 701 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: You know, you could continue to develop technologies. But because 702 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: it went beyond what we are currently able to do, 703 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: they would just call it future technology one future technology 704 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: to future because you had gone beyond what you could 705 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: actually do in the game. Uh. And anyway, there were 706 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: multiple ways of winning this game, and and that was 707 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: part of what Sidmire thought would make it really compelling 708 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: was the idea that you had multiple nationality, so that 709 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: gave you a lot of incentive to play it in 710 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: different ways. And there were multiple ways of winning, so 711 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: that meant that you could choose different strategies every time, right, 712 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: um and uh and succeed it did, um despite despite 713 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: the company not really giving it that much marketing power, 714 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: it sold more than eight hundred thousand copies. Um. You 715 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: know before the Internet, right, yeah, the Internet existed, but 716 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: no one the Web didn't. There was no Web yet, 717 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: and hardly anyone who even knew about the Internet had 718 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: access to it because again This was mostly uh, colleges 719 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: and research institutions that had access to the Internet. The 720 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: rest of us we might have email. That would be 721 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,479 Speaker 1: about the extent of it. So yeah, the fact that 722 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: that this game had to succeed mainly they didn't get 723 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: a lot of marketing behind it either. They mainly succeeded 724 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: on word of mouth. And then eventually the magazine started 725 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: to review it, right because magazines existed. Yeah, that was 726 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: a thing. Do you remember those um so around or so. Uh, 727 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: Like I had said, MicroProse was trying to get into 728 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: um into a lot of arcade arcade stuff, actually creating 729 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: arcade cabinets based on old titles. In particular, they had 730 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: tried to do a version of that fifteen Strike Eagle. 731 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: How that turn out poorly, really poorly, so poorly that 732 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: um that they they did an I p O and 733 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: initial public offering just for cash, I mean just it 734 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: was like one of those desperate bid for cash kind 735 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: of things. The company was falling into debt. Steely was 736 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: starting to feel the squeeze from a financial standpoint, and 737 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: uh eventually yeah. So so the next year he would 738 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: wind up selling Micropros to Spectrum Hollobight Micropros is acquired 739 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: by Spectrum Hollobight, and uh Steely would stick around until 740 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: nine and then he leaves Micropros. You know, this was 741 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: a tough time for for the company. I mean already 742 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: obviously Meyer had started to feel a little disenchanted, which 743 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: is why he went to the whole tractor right right. 744 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: And it was around ninety three that Meyer started backing 745 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: off of development entirely. You know, he was he was 746 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: a I think, um, trying not to stress himself out 747 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: over creating the next Civilization after Civilization came out and 748 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: was so popular. Um, and uh if you end up 749 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: developing a music application called a cpu bach yeah, And 750 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that a little bit later because that, uh, 751 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: it comes out a little after ninety three, but that's 752 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: when he started working on it. And uh, actually ninety four, 753 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: that's when Brian Reynolds, who was another developer over at 754 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: UH Micropros, ended up being the lead developer for sid 755 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: Meier's Colonization. I also played this game, and Colonization was 756 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: a game where you, as a European explorer, would and 757 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: with your band of Europeans, would come over and subjugate 758 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: Native American tribes and build colonies and spread smallpox, except 759 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: in a cheerful way. I'm sure that smallpox wasn't actually 760 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: part of the game. Um wasn't. I don't remember smallpox 761 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: being a part of the game. But you could, and 762 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: you could choose different routes, right, You didn't have to 763 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, you didn't. Yeah, you didn't have to slaughter 764 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: everybody if you didn't want to. You could trade with them, 765 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 1: you could try and build relationships. Sometimes they would react 766 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: poorly to those relationships, which would just kind of make 767 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: you want to go through the whole slaughter approach. Uh. Plus, 768 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: those those Mayans had a lot of gold Man But anyway, 769 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: um uh, it was a you know, it was a 770 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: very kind of focused approach to that same sort of 771 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: civilization feel, but specifically under the New World colonization. And 772 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: at that point you started seeing other games coming out 773 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: under Micropros, some of the other games from other developers, 774 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: not just Micropros, so things like dark Lands, which was 775 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,439 Speaker 1: a role playing game, or The Master of Orion, which 776 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 1: was a space strategy game. And now we're getting up 777 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: to nineteen nine six, this is where we're going to 778 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: We're going to conclude this part of the podcast with 779 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: this year year, because this was the year that sid 780 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: Meyer and uh and and Reynolds and another fellow by 781 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: the name of Jeff Briggs left Micropros. Uh. This was 782 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: they were feeling like the company was just moving in 783 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: a direction that they didn't really care for. There were 784 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,280 Speaker 1: a lot of layoffs that were going on at this time. Yeah, 785 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: Spectrum was was managing them from the opposite coast. They 786 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: were out west, and uh, you know, just yeah, no 787 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: one felt like they were really meeting. They felt that 788 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,280 Speaker 1: like the magic of those group of people who really 789 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: loved to make games was being sapped away by all 790 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: the rest of the stuff that has to happen for 791 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: business to work, or at least for business to work 792 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: in this particular setup. And so they left Micropros and 793 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: founded a new company. But we're going to pick up 794 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: from that point in our next episode, where we'll talk 795 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: about the second half of sid Meyer's career, which is 796 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: still going right now. Uh And guys, if you have 797 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,240 Speaker 1: any suggestions for topics that we should cover in future 798 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: episodes of Tech Stuff, come on let us know about it, 799 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: because if you just shout, unless we happen to be nearby, 800 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,919 Speaker 1: we're probably not gonna hear you, and maybe we don't 801 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: even know what you're talking about, So rise an email. Alright, 802 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: this is tech stuff at Discovery dot com. Or drop 803 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: us a line on Facebook or Twitter. You can find 804 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: us with the handle text stuff H S W. Lauren 805 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon. For 806 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit house 807 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: staff works dot com