Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to get
Speaker 1: um straight back to markets here. The volatility has been
Speaker 1: uh uh really, I don't want to say unprecedented, but
Speaker 1: it's been unique certainly. And uh it's come through commodity,
Speaker 1: from commodities, through rates into stocks and Um, right now
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to somebody who has to put his
Speaker 1: money where his mouth is. Phil Palumbo is the CEO
Speaker 1: of Palumbo Wealth Management. Um, how do you deal with
Speaker 1: this kind of situation? Phil? How do your clients deal
Speaker 1: with this kind of volatility? Well? First, I think you
Speaker 1: know you have to. You have to put it on
Speaker 1: the table that we could bank on the recession at
Speaker 1: the end of twenty two, if not the beginning of
Speaker 1: the way I look at it, the binary decision for
Speaker 1: the FET it's either he's going to let inflation run
Speaker 1: or he's gonna have to step in and raise interest
Speaker 1: rates aggressively, and he doesn't want to do both, which
Speaker 1: tells me that it's going to be a hard landing
Speaker 1: versus a soft landing, which is going to create increased
Speaker 1: volatility and eventually put us into a recession. And so
Speaker 1: how do you invest around that given that there are
Speaker 1: so many uncertainties. I mean, it feels like a fifty
Speaker 1: basis point hike next week has been all but ruled out,
Speaker 1: but where the FED goes from there is still a question.
Speaker 1: Like Matt was saying earlier, I think there's still six
Speaker 1: hikes are so priced into the next year, but again seven,
Speaker 1: So look at WORP, W I RP, going do I
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on that page just staring
Speaker 1: at the numbers, not quite sure what to make of it.
Speaker 1: But each number represents a basis basis hike, basis point hike. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: So point being there that you know there's still seven
Speaker 1: hikes priced in, but you have started to see some
Speaker 1: chatter that those bets could be paired back. How do
Speaker 1: you position your portfolio around that those bets will will
Speaker 1: be paired back? The fact is not gonna be able
Speaker 1: to raise rates seven times will be in a recessment
Speaker 1: before that happens. So in the meantime, I've been very
Speaker 1: vocal about to see when I was on your show,
Speaker 1: two evaluations were aggressively high, whether it's the high flying technology,
Speaker 1: the technology sector, or even just d SMP five DRED,
Speaker 1: So those were opportunities to reduce risk and rebound portfolios.
Speaker 1: So if you're a fully invested investor, and you've been
Speaker 1: over the past three plus years, you actually performed well
Speaker 1: Project two. If you didn't take risk off the table
Speaker 1: any type of big run ups in the markets like
Speaker 1: we saw yesterday, which will happen during these situations, you
Speaker 1: should reduce risk from your portfolio. That's number one. Number
Speaker 1: two you should be looking at heads equity strategies within
Speaker 1: your equity portfolio to protect you on the downside. Three
Speaker 1: is you should have gold and you should have commodities,
Speaker 1: which have been always very vocal with that. Within a
Speaker 1: balanced portfolio, gold and commodities when inflation accelerates does really well,
Speaker 1: and history going back to an eight proves that, and
Speaker 1: gold is a hedge against stocks going down. So if
Speaker 1: you're truly balance properly, which most people are not, this
Speaker 1: is the thing that you can be doing to help
Speaker 1: counter balance risk when we do enter in a recession
Speaker 1: at some point at the end of twenty two in
Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty three. So what you're saying, we're
Speaker 1: now an environment where you want to sell the rallies
Speaker 1: rather than buy the dip. Absolutely, you sell the rip
Speaker 1: and you don't buy the dip in this environment. However,
Speaker 1: the only thing I will say though, is that for
Speaker 1: new money, which have a lot of clients that sold
Speaker 1: businesses and have new capital, this is the best time
Speaker 1: to come into new money, right because you're getting the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be able to build out a portfolio when
Speaker 1: you've got valuations that are declining here, right, So this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a great opportunity to buy stocks of
Speaker 1: great businesses at a cheaper level. So for new money,
Speaker 1: it's excellent. You know. For fully invested investors, you know
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in for some pain again. Hopefully you
Speaker 1: did some rebalancing and you and you have a properly
Speaker 1: balanced portfolio to help you muscle through this. Can we
Speaker 1: talk about the yield curve a little bit, because I'm
Speaker 1: looking at the twos tens spread. It got below twenty
Speaker 1: basis points earlier this week, you know, a few banks
Speaker 1: or at least one bank has suggested it could invert
Speaker 1: it in the next week or so. How much of
Speaker 1: the signal are you taking from that tremendous amount of signals?
Speaker 1: So Green Spin always said, tell me where the tenure is,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you where the where the where the
Speaker 1: where the economy is going. I say, tell me where
Speaker 1: the yield curve is. I'll tell you where the economy
Speaker 1: is going. The yield curve is flat, continue continues to
Speaker 1: flatten out around twenty three basis points. The two is
Speaker 1: intend that is going to invert. Somebody on TV just
Speaker 1: the other day just said if it inverts this time,
Speaker 1: it's different. We're not going to go with the recess.
Speaker 1: And I think that's ridiculous. The track records accurate. And
Speaker 1: then if you take that and you put on top
Speaker 1: of that forty year high inflation data a fetter reserve,
Speaker 1: that's gonna have to raise interest rates. We're coming off
Speaker 1: extreme valuations before. When you put it all together and
Speaker 1: connect the dots, I just don't see how you know,
Speaker 1: we don't like I keep on saying, you know, enter
Speaker 1: into recession. So yield curve. To answer your question, is
Speaker 1: one of the most important aspects of of of the
Speaker 1: of the data points in terms of where we're going
Speaker 1: with the economy. I just want to quickly get an
Speaker 1: example of a hedge equity strategy. We're not getting too
Speaker 1: deep in the weeds, the options weeds. What do you uh,
Speaker 1: what would you advise? So what we did as a
Speaker 1: firm is we spoke this, uh this this company called
Speaker 1: a Little Harbor. They have an e t F called
Speaker 1: MSTB Mary Sam Thomas Boy. Essentially, what they do they
Speaker 1: long d SMP five hundred and they use options vixed
Speaker 1: through VIX futures to to hedge out the equity side
Speaker 1: of it. So about of our equity portfolios in this
Speaker 1: particular exchange traded fund. We did this transaction September October
Speaker 1: one and we're still along at right now. So the
Speaker 1: thought is, if we do hit a recession, we go
Speaker 1: into a bear market, we hope that they'll do what
Speaker 1: they're supposed to do. Right, Um, that's number one. Typically
Speaker 1: we before that we had spy on that of our
Speaker 1: clients portfolios. So now we just moved that to the
Speaker 1: ms TWB to hedge out the the SNP five hundred,
Speaker 1: so that's what we're using. We don't use any types
Speaker 1: of collars on our equity strategies or we don't buy puts,
Speaker 1: you know, so we don't do any of the individual options.
Speaker 1: We depend on other managers to do that for us.
Speaker 1: And just quickly, I mean, how is that strategy been
Speaker 1: playing out? If I look at the VIX right now,
Speaker 1: it's spent most of March above thirty with this particular
Speaker 1: strategy of the sup full is greater than ten toll percent,
Speaker 1: then the VIX the the options or uh, the risk
Speaker 1: on it down so we will actually kick in. So
Speaker 1: it's pretty much been fun with the SPV SPF just
Speaker 1: been doing from pete to trough so far. So it
Speaker 1: really hasn't kicked in yet. It's only if you get
Speaker 1: a major waterfall decline where really will click, will click
Speaker 1: and protected that piece of the portfolio. Alright, Phil, great
Speaker 1: to get some time with you, very interesting stuff. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Phil Palumbo there who runs
Speaker 1: his own fun Palumbo Wealth Management and UM it used
Speaker 1: to be at UBS, spent years a decade at UBS,
Speaker 1: and before that was at Morgan Stanley. So it's the
Speaker 1: guy who knows what he's talking about. Very interesting m
Speaker 1: edging strategy. Let's talk about cars. I'm ready, Really we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about light oar Angus Pacola joins us,
Speaker 1: co founder and CEO of Auster And if you didn't know,
Speaker 1: Austa is one of the hottest light our companies out
Speaker 1: there right now, went public vias back in one and Angus,
Speaker 1: it's great to have you on the program. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: still trying to get my head around sort of light
Speaker 1: our versus Tesla um test because Tesla says they don't
Speaker 1: want to use lighter but they have had partnerships and
Speaker 1: light our companies. Why why is light are important? Right now? Sure?
Speaker 1: And before I answer that, I just want to give
Speaker 1: a brief kind of perspective on Auster and what we're
Speaker 1: doing in light are that stands apart and really Outster
Speaker 1: is the digital light our company building digital chips that
Speaker 1: transform a legacy analog technology into the digital future. And
Speaker 1: and on the performance of benefits and affordability of digital technology.
Speaker 1: We diversus right, diversified across markets. So what what Tesla
Speaker 1: is lacking? And I think that what what Lighter brings
Speaker 1: to the table is an absolute trust in data quality
Speaker 1: UM that that is not there with cameras. So what
Speaker 1: you see from Tesla is they've gotten in some hot
Speaker 1: water because occasionally, and it is occasionally, the cars get
Speaker 1: confused with camera technology because cameras, because cars are basically
Speaker 1: because Tesla UM has neural networks to try and decipher
Speaker 1: what they see in video, right like humans, but they're
Speaker 1: not as good exactly right, Yeah, So a camera needs
Speaker 1: a neural network in order to interpret its environment UM,
Speaker 1: and that sometimes gets confused, and so it sometimes crashes.
Speaker 1: And that's really that's a really challenging UM situation to
Speaker 1: be in if you want to go to full autonomy,
Speaker 1: where people aren't paying attention and they get to fall
Speaker 1: suits in their cars. Lighter, on the hand, other hand,
Speaker 1: directly measures the information that you care about with no
Speaker 1: additional post processing, and it does it so reliably that
Speaker 1: Lighter is already used in safety critical environments across the
Speaker 1: world like industrial settings UM and and it's trusted to
Speaker 1: save people's lives day in and day out and has
Speaker 1: for about thirty years in the industrial setting. So Lighter
Speaker 1: doesn't get confused and you can truly trust the data
Speaker 1: with your life, and so Tesla aside. I mean, what
Speaker 1: does adoption of light ar look like? Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: that's really um So lidar is the third and kind
Speaker 1: of last critical sensing technology after cameras and ratear. Sensors
Speaker 1: and light are because you can trust your life on it,
Speaker 1: and because it's so effective at understanding the true and
Speaker 1: rich three D environment around anything any machine, whether it's rolling, flying, driving,
Speaker 1: or monitoring those moving objects. It's the perfect sensor for
Speaker 1: bringing our entire world into the autonomy age. And I
Speaker 1: think of it as it's like finally realizing the future
Speaker 1: that the Jetsons the Jetsons TV show laid out. So
Speaker 1: flying cars drive and robots that delivery packages, um, safer
Speaker 1: cross crosswalks with lower congestion at intersections, and yes, self
Speaker 1: driving cars are all made possible because of lighter technology
Speaker 1: in combination with the autonomy technology stack that rides above it.
Speaker 1: And so it's a really fantastic, safer, cleaner, less congested,
Speaker 1: more efficient, higher quality of life future that we're building
Speaker 1: through a combination of lighter sensors and and affordable autonomy technology.
Speaker 1: It does make sense. I mean from what you're saying,
Speaker 1: it makes sense to me to combine it with video
Speaker 1: and you don't need I guess, radar UM and and
Speaker 1: the neural network. But what Tesla says is that you
Speaker 1: have to pre map the environment with a light ar
Speaker 1: and then create a high dep map and then insert
Speaker 1: the lanes. And if you have to do that, it
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of computing power. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's just kind of that that's that's the legacy way
Speaker 1: of thinking about it. But most companies using LIDER today
Speaker 1: don't pre map, and they do similar things. It's a
Speaker 1: similar software stack and algorithmic stack to camera technology, but
Speaker 1: they don't have to rely as heavily on machine learning UM,
Speaker 1: which is great. Machine learning is great at distinguishing between
Speaker 1: a hot dog and your cat in an image nine
Speaker 1: percent of the time, but it's not great at doing
Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the time and an auto and
Speaker 1: then you know, when when human life is involved, you
Speaker 1: want to be able to do it a d percent
Speaker 1: of the time. Solider allows you to remove some of
Speaker 1: the fancy machine learning, trust the data with your life,
Speaker 1: just kind of the raw data coming out of the sensor,
Speaker 1: but also apply some of the learnings that we've gotten
Speaker 1: from the camera world. So you know, we don't have
Speaker 1: to pre map anymore. That's not what companies are doing today.
Speaker 1: It is what companies thought about doing five years ago,
Speaker 1: but the industry has moved on from that, and I
Speaker 1: think TUSSA was just kind of right in not premapping,
Speaker 1: And so I solicited questions from our Blueberg news Print
Speaker 1: team about what to ask you. And Andrew Grant said
Speaker 1: that the most important question for lighter companies right now
Speaker 1: is whether A d S or a v S are
Speaker 1: the most important market. A d S a d a
Speaker 1: S being advanced driver assistant systems, a VS being autonomous vehicles.
Speaker 1: Which of those markets do you see is more important
Speaker 1: for your company? Yeah, well, well this is one of
Speaker 1: the places that OUST stands apart. So we've built this
Speaker 1: more affordable, more performance digital lighter technology, putting lighter onto
Speaker 1: literally one silicon chip, and that's allowed us to diversify
Speaker 1: across many different applications and automotive, industrial, smarter prastruction, robotics,
Speaker 1: and so we actually aren't trying to bet on whether
Speaker 1: a v S or eight ASS is the more important
Speaker 1: market because we're playing in both. Our products are literally
Speaker 1: good enough to play in both, just like digital cameras
Speaker 1: are able to play in the eight ASS market and
Speaker 1: the AD market. Digital cameras go on telephone poles and
Speaker 1: they also go on the drones that are flying on bars. Um.
Speaker 1: So digital technology is so flexible you can address all
Speaker 1: these markets. And I actually am a big believer in
Speaker 1: both ADAS and a v s now eight AS I
Speaker 1: think is the sure bet with huge volumes, and it's
Speaker 1: it's more clear on how eight AS is moving from
Speaker 1: L two plus hands on driver aware systems to L
Speaker 1: three driver you know, hands free, eyes free systems, and
Speaker 1: they're lighter plays a huge part and allowing a person
Speaker 1: in the car to take notes on the way to
Speaker 1: work and be hands free, eyes free. Um. But lighter
Speaker 1: is also the critical sensing technology on autonomous vehicles and
Speaker 1: in many cases it's the only sensor on an autonomous vehicle. UM.
Speaker 1: And so that's going to happen. But I think it's
Speaker 1: a little less because apes are such a high bar
Speaker 1: in terms of technology and reliability. Are Our veteran war
Speaker 1: reporter Greg Jarrett Angus points out that light ar is
Speaker 1: extremely helpful in military applications. Do you, um, do you
Speaker 1: see a big market there as well? Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1: So um, lighter can be incredibly useful in situations like convoying.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a huge amount the number of support
Speaker 1: vehicles in the military is far greater than the number
Speaker 1: of active kind of UH fighting vehicles. And that's where
Speaker 1: most casualties happen in wars, and the supply chain, and
Speaker 1: so there's immense opportunities to automate a supply chain. Um,
Speaker 1: these vehicles should be automated. It's fuel trucks, it's it's
Speaker 1: food trucks with all kinds of supply vehicles that historically
Speaker 1: have been hit by their their I D s and
Speaker 1: things like that, and you really would like those vehicles
Speaker 1: just be autonomous. It's so fascinating. I wish we had
Speaker 1: more time, Angus. Hopefully we can get you back. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for joining us and Angus. Pacola there the
Speaker 1: CEO of ALSTA. Let's get over now to Dave Harden.
Speaker 1: He is the founder and president of Summit Global Investors. Dave,
Speaker 1: what do you take from the kind of alatility that
Speaker 1: we've seen, you know, wash through commodities because of this
Speaker 1: war um in two rates and and kind of you know,
Speaker 1: on this side of the Atlantic, it hasn't rocked the
Speaker 1: equity markets as much as it has on the other side,
Speaker 1: but we still were, uh, you know, down three percent
Speaker 1: on Monday, up three percent yesterday, now we're down again today.
Speaker 1: How do you deal with this? Well, you know, this
Speaker 1: volatility has made everybody understand that risk is important, right,
Speaker 1: So people people need to understand that risk management is
Speaker 1: essential to having better portfolios. And the better they understand
Speaker 1: what's in their portfolio, the better of the portfolio performers
Speaker 1: they hope. So having some exposure right now the commodities
Speaker 1: or word overweight energy, I think those things are very
Speaker 1: prudent in the portfolio. And maybe some people might even
Speaker 1: say energies. The more defense you heard, the you know,
Speaker 1: the expert come on and say, hey, I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be here and settle into this range. And there's
Speaker 1: a lot of truth to that. So it's really hard
Speaker 1: to go to somebody like Venezuela. It's really hard to
Speaker 1: go to somebody out there that you know, we haven't
Speaker 1: really been friends with with Iran and switch hands from
Speaker 1: one dictator to another dictator. So from our standpoint, I
Speaker 1: think you have to have some commodity exposure, energy exposure
Speaker 1: in your portfolio, and our models, from a quantitative perspective,
Speaker 1: from a risk perspective, all tell us and a fundamental
Speaker 1: outlook that having some of that exposure is important, but
Speaker 1: it's gonna be volatile. So I think in a volatile
Speaker 1: market you have to look for things to protect the
Speaker 1: down and still get some of the upside. You know,
Speaker 1: mathematically people forget that if you only went down half
Speaker 1: of what the market went down every day, you would
Speaker 1: only need to go up six in the up market
Speaker 1: to outperform. So it's a lot better to try to
Speaker 1: protect in volatility than it is trying to get that upside.
Speaker 1: You know, when the market's up to I want to
Speaker 1: be up two point two. That's a lot harder to
Speaker 1: do and you get crushed on the down. So my
Speaker 1: advice and volatility is start to look at risk and
Speaker 1: start to manage risk. And you can find that in
Speaker 1: some defensives right now. You can find that in health
Speaker 1: care right now. So that's some of the things that
Speaker 1: we're doing for our clients. And if we are six
Speaker 1: short days away from the FED meeting, and the narrative
Speaker 1: for a few months now has been you know, the
Speaker 1: FED put is dead. You're not going to see the
Speaker 1: central bank come in and prop up asset prices. But
Speaker 1: I mean the SMP five hundred flirting with correction territory.
Speaker 1: At what point do you think that makes FED policymakers blink? Well, um,
Speaker 1: they blinked when we when Russia invaded Ukraine. Remember that Thursday.
Speaker 1: They came out and there was so much FED speak.
Speaker 1: They were almost scared. And I'm putting in my language here.
Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in their mouth, but
Speaker 1: they were almost scared to see a negative three and
Speaker 1: a half percent down day. They had to come out
Speaker 1: and talk about that they might not raise interest rates
Speaker 1: as much and they might not do this. And we
Speaker 1: saw that swing negative three and a half percent to
Speaker 1: positive three and a half percent. Why only because the
Speaker 1: FED right, So we've already seen them blink. They're they're
Speaker 1: absolutely worried about this market. And I'm not saying they
Speaker 1: shouldn't be, but the BED making a mistake, a policy mistake,
Speaker 1: has definitely increased because of what's going on in the
Speaker 1: world today. Their their vision is not as clear. It's cloudy.
Speaker 1: If you will inflation, I mean seven point nine. Really,
Speaker 1: what does it matter if it's seven point nine or
Speaker 1: eight or set the point is seven inflation, that's the point.
Speaker 1: So they are backed into a corner um and this
Speaker 1: creates a lot of problems and it increases the larger
Speaker 1: downside risks. Again another reason why for our clients as
Speaker 1: a whole, you need to look at managing risks. We
Speaker 1: we do see the market is priced in a lot
Speaker 1: of of of hikes and I guess we'll talk with
Speaker 1: you about that a little bit later, David. Great having
Speaker 1: you on the program, Dave Harden talking to us about
Speaker 1: what we're seeing. Now, now let's get over to Amos Shaw,
Speaker 1: the president of A. L. T R. Creed Diamonds, and
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen such incredible swings in commodity prices, Amish,
Speaker 1: I wonder if the diamond industry has been hit the
Speaker 1: same way as um the moves we've seen in oil
Speaker 1: or in gold, et cetera. Even though, of course the
Speaker 1: kind of diamonds that that you're creating are different than
Speaker 1: the kind that are mined. So the overall diamond industry
Speaker 1: in the inflationary situation in the last six months has
Speaker 1: already seen almost like a price increase. However, with the
Speaker 1: current situation of conflict with the Russia being almost of
Speaker 1: the diamonds in circulation in about twy of new production
Speaker 1: that comes in the system is everywhere from those areas.
Speaker 1: Um there is no direct sanctions on diamonds, the sanctioned
Speaker 1: around the bank as well as the CEO. However, it's
Speaker 1: the consumers sentiment that's going to make the most difference.
Speaker 1: So with the consumers starting to talk about it, I
Speaker 1: think we're expecting a price search in a tightening of supply. Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean we all. I feel like it's been well broadcast.
Speaker 1: How big of a supplier of you know, energy of
Speaker 1: natural gas Russia is haven't heard as much about diamonds.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that this is happening at the same
Speaker 1: time as you know, we're heading into a so called
Speaker 1: wedding boom. I don't know. If I look at my mailbox,
Speaker 1: I've gotten so many safe the dates for the coming year,
Speaker 1: how because they were put off for two years exactly exactly. So,
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that you do have you know
Speaker 1: already you're seeing these price increases given the demand obviously
Speaker 1: is growing as well. I mean, how how much higher
Speaker 1: do you think the prices could naturally go? Here? I
Speaker 1: think the consumer sentiment could rise this anything between ten. However,
Speaker 1: UM geopolitically shift. Consumer today is starting to look at
Speaker 1: the options because today they have a choice. They have
Speaker 1: a choice of created diamonds, labgown diamonds that are grown
Speaker 1: above the earth, that are not grown in these contract territories,
Speaker 1: cutting polished in other countries, and jewelry is made either
Speaker 1: in US or in Asia. So they have a choice
Speaker 1: with US going you know, we're expecting two point five
Speaker 1: million million millennials to get married this to get engaged
Speaker 1: this year, So there is a choice. Um, the price
Speaker 1: is going to be subjected to how long this conflict last?
Speaker 1: Where are your Where do you do all of your work?
Speaker 1: Where do you create your diamonds and cut and polish them?
Speaker 1: Is is Russia? Part of the supply chain? No are
Speaker 1: growing is actually in India. Cutting and polishing is in India.
Speaker 1: The design of jewelry is done in United States. And
Speaker 1: we finished jewelry between China and United States. How much
Speaker 1: how much of competitor are you too? You know earth
Speaker 1: mind diamonds. I mean when people are looking, um, do
Speaker 1: they get to see both choices? Is price um roughly
Speaker 1: in line? Is the quality indistinguishable? So u A Alto
Speaker 1: created diamond is chemically, optically and physically same as an
Speaker 1: earth mind diamond. The only difference that's grown about the
Speaker 1: Earth from a price value being that we are not
Speaker 1: a part of a monolith pricing strategy. It's demand and supply.
Speaker 1: So today, uh, it's almost a fifty better value. So
Speaker 1: you almost get a fifty percent larger diamond for the
Speaker 1: same price. And the best part is over seventy of
Speaker 1: consumers today that shop for engagement drinks are aware of
Speaker 1: lab grown diamonds, and so, I mean, I could definitely
Speaker 1: see how this would be a tail when for lab
Speaker 1: grown diamonds. But what about some of the diamond alternatives.
Speaker 1: I hope I say this word right. Mossonites, that's something
Speaker 1: you hear about more and more as sort of a
Speaker 1: substitute for exactly Yeah, I can't even pretend to pronounce that.
Speaker 1: But how how do you see that competitive landscape unfolding? Actually,
Speaker 1: this is very good you brought it up because in
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen UM the US Federal Commission made sure
Speaker 1: that these can no longer be even identified to look
Speaker 1: like or market it as diamond alternatives. Cubic, zirconia and
Speaker 1: moisonite are actually formed from chemicals. One is their conium
Speaker 1: dioxide and another is another chemical that is given the
Speaker 1: form in a structure to look like a diamond. They're
Speaker 1: actually not diamonds. Only earth mine diamonds and lab grown
Speaker 1: diamonds and ultra created diamonds are carbon. They are diamonds.
Speaker 1: It's interesting I'm seeing such a broad price range um
Speaker 1: when I look up just google Altar created diamonds and
Speaker 1: click on the shopping tab. Some of them are two
Speaker 1: rand three grand for two carrots. Some of them are
Speaker 1: fifteen grand for two carrots. So it depends on the quality.
Speaker 1: Just like earth Mind diamonds, the difference of prize is
Speaker 1: relative to the characteristics the shape, the size, the color
Speaker 1: and clarity. They are graded just like earth Mind diamonds
Speaker 1: because they're both diamonds, and hence the pricing is uh
Speaker 1: to the Four Seas and ultimately the demand and supply
Speaker 1: for them, and thee very important thing that has changes.
Speaker 1: Technology evolved, the value has got better for the consumer
Speaker 1: and excessibility has gone easier. All right, Amy, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us, Amy Shaw, their president of alter
Speaker 1: Created Diamonds. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three, pet On Ball Sweeney,
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwid at Bloomberg Radio m