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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast

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Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to get

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Speaker 1: um straight back to markets here. The volatility has been

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Speaker 1: uh uh really, I don't want to say unprecedented, but

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Speaker 1: it's been unique certainly. And uh it's come through commodity,

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Speaker 1: from commodities, through rates into stocks and Um, right now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to somebody who has to put his

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Speaker 1: money where his mouth is. Phil Palumbo is the CEO

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Speaker 1: of Palumbo Wealth Management. Um, how do you deal with

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Speaker 1: this kind of situation? Phil? How do your clients deal

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Speaker 1: with this kind of volatility? Well? First, I think you

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Speaker 1: know you have to. You have to put it on

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Speaker 1: the table that we could bank on the recession at

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Speaker 1: the end of twenty two, if not the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the way I look at it, the binary decision for

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Speaker 1: the FET it's either he's going to let inflation run

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Speaker 1: or he's gonna have to step in and raise interest

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Speaker 1: rates aggressively, and he doesn't want to do both, which

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Speaker 1: tells me that it's going to be a hard landing

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Speaker 1: versus a soft landing, which is going to create increased

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Speaker 1: volatility and eventually put us into a recession. And so

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Speaker 1: how do you invest around that given that there are

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Speaker 1: so many uncertainties. I mean, it feels like a fifty

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Speaker 1: basis point hike next week has been all but ruled out,

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Speaker 1: but where the FED goes from there is still a question.

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Speaker 1: Like Matt was saying earlier, I think there's still six

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Speaker 1: hikes are so priced into the next year, but again seven,

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Speaker 1: So look at WORP, W I RP, going do I

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on that page just staring

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Speaker 1: at the numbers, not quite sure what to make of it.

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Speaker 1: But each number represents a basis basis hike, basis point hike. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So point being there that you know there's still seven

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Speaker 1: hikes priced in, but you have started to see some

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Speaker 1: chatter that those bets could be paired back. How do

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Speaker 1: you position your portfolio around that those bets will will

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Speaker 1: be paired back? The fact is not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to raise rates seven times will be in a recessment

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Speaker 1: before that happens. So in the meantime, I've been very

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Speaker 1: vocal about to see when I was on your show,

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Speaker 1: two evaluations were aggressively high, whether it's the high flying technology,

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Speaker 1: the technology sector, or even just d SMP five DRED,

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Speaker 1: So those were opportunities to reduce risk and rebound portfolios.

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Speaker 1: So if you're a fully invested investor, and you've been

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Speaker 1: over the past three plus years, you actually performed well

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Speaker 1: Project two. If you didn't take risk off the table

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Speaker 1: any type of big run ups in the markets like

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Speaker 1: we saw yesterday, which will happen during these situations, you

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Speaker 1: should reduce risk from your portfolio. That's number one. Number

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Speaker 1: two you should be looking at heads equity strategies within

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Speaker 1: your equity portfolio to protect you on the downside. Three

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Speaker 1: is you should have gold and you should have commodities,

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Speaker 1: which have been always very vocal with that. Within a

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Speaker 1: balanced portfolio, gold and commodities when inflation accelerates does really well,

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Speaker 1: and history going back to an eight proves that, and

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Speaker 1: gold is a hedge against stocks going down. So if

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Speaker 1: you're truly balance properly, which most people are not, this

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Speaker 1: is the thing that you can be doing to help

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Speaker 1: counter balance risk when we do enter in a recession

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Speaker 1: at some point at the end of twenty two in

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Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty three. So what you're saying, we're

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Speaker 1: now an environment where you want to sell the rallies

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Speaker 1: rather than buy the dip. Absolutely, you sell the rip

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Speaker 1: and you don't buy the dip in this environment. However,

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Speaker 1: the only thing I will say though, is that for

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Speaker 1: new money, which have a lot of clients that sold

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Speaker 1: businesses and have new capital, this is the best time

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Speaker 1: to come into new money, right because you're getting the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to be able to build out a portfolio when

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Speaker 1: you've got valuations that are declining here, right, So this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be a great opportunity to buy stocks of

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Speaker 1: great businesses at a cheaper level. So for new money,

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Speaker 1: it's excellent. You know. For fully invested investors, you know

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be in for some pain again. Hopefully you

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Speaker 1: did some rebalancing and you and you have a properly

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Speaker 1: balanced portfolio to help you muscle through this. Can we

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Speaker 1: talk about the yield curve a little bit, because I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the twos tens spread. It got below twenty

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Speaker 1: basis points earlier this week, you know, a few banks

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Speaker 1: or at least one bank has suggested it could invert

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Speaker 1: it in the next week or so. How much of

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Speaker 1: the signal are you taking from that tremendous amount of signals?

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Speaker 1: So Green Spin always said, tell me where the tenure is,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you where the where the where the

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Speaker 1: where the economy is going. I say, tell me where

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Speaker 1: the yield curve is. I'll tell you where the economy

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Speaker 1: is going. The yield curve is flat, continue continues to

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Speaker 1: flatten out around twenty three basis points. The two is

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Speaker 1: intend that is going to invert. Somebody on TV just

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Speaker 1: the other day just said if it inverts this time,

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Speaker 1: it's different. We're not going to go with the recess.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's ridiculous. The track records accurate. And

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Speaker 1: then if you take that and you put on top

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Speaker 1: of that forty year high inflation data a fetter reserve,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna have to raise interest rates. We're coming off

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Speaker 1: extreme valuations before. When you put it all together and

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Speaker 1: connect the dots, I just don't see how you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't like I keep on saying, you know, enter

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Speaker 1: into recession. So yield curve. To answer your question, is

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Speaker 1: one of the most important aspects of of of the

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Speaker 1: of the data points in terms of where we're going

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Speaker 1: with the economy. I just want to quickly get an

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Speaker 1: example of a hedge equity strategy. We're not getting too

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Speaker 1: deep in the weeds, the options weeds. What do you uh,

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Speaker 1: what would you advise? So what we did as a

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Speaker 1: firm is we spoke this, uh this this company called

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Speaker 1: a Little Harbor. They have an e t F called

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Speaker 1: MSTB Mary Sam Thomas Boy. Essentially, what they do they

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Speaker 1: long d SMP five hundred and they use options vixed

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Speaker 1: through VIX futures to to hedge out the equity side

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Speaker 1: of it. So about of our equity portfolios in this

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Speaker 1: particular exchange traded fund. We did this transaction September October

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Speaker 1: one and we're still along at right now. So the

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Speaker 1: thought is, if we do hit a recession, we go

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Speaker 1: into a bear market, we hope that they'll do what

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to do. Right, Um, that's number one. Typically

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Speaker 1: we before that we had spy on that of our

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Speaker 1: clients portfolios. So now we just moved that to the

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Speaker 1: ms TWB to hedge out the the SNP five hundred,

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Speaker 1: so that's what we're using. We don't use any types

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Speaker 1: of collars on our equity strategies or we don't buy puts,

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Speaker 1: you know, so we don't do any of the individual options.

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Speaker 1: We depend on other managers to do that for us.

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Speaker 1: And just quickly, I mean, how is that strategy been

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Speaker 1: playing out? If I look at the VIX right now,

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Speaker 1: it's spent most of March above thirty with this particular

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Speaker 1: strategy of the sup full is greater than ten toll percent,

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Speaker 1: then the VIX the the options or uh, the risk

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Speaker 1: on it down so we will actually kick in. So

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much been fun with the SPV SPF just

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Speaker 1: been doing from pete to trough so far. So it

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Speaker 1: really hasn't kicked in yet. It's only if you get

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Speaker 1: a major waterfall decline where really will click, will click

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Speaker 1: and protected that piece of the portfolio. Alright, Phil, great

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Speaker 1: to get some time with you, very interesting stuff. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Phil Palumbo there who runs

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Speaker 1: his own fun Palumbo Wealth Management and UM it used

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Speaker 1: to be at UBS, spent years a decade at UBS,

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Speaker 1: and before that was at Morgan Stanley. So it's the

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Speaker 1: guy who knows what he's talking about. Very interesting m

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Speaker 1: edging strategy. Let's talk about cars. I'm ready, Really we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about light oar Angus Pacola joins us,

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Speaker 1: co founder and CEO of Auster And if you didn't know,

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Speaker 1: Austa is one of the hottest light our companies out

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Speaker 1: there right now, went public vias back in one and Angus,

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Speaker 1: it's great to have you on the program. Um. I'm

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Speaker 1: still trying to get my head around sort of light

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Speaker 1: our versus Tesla um test because Tesla says they don't

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Speaker 1: want to use lighter but they have had partnerships and

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Speaker 1: light our companies. Why why is light are important? Right now? Sure?

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Speaker 1: And before I answer that, I just want to give

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Speaker 1: a brief kind of perspective on Auster and what we're

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Speaker 1: doing in light are that stands apart and really Outster

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Speaker 1: is the digital light our company building digital chips that

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Speaker 1: transform a legacy analog technology into the digital future. And

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Speaker 1: and on the performance of benefits and affordability of digital technology.

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Speaker 1: We diversus right, diversified across markets. So what what Tesla

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Speaker 1: is lacking? And I think that what what Lighter brings

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Speaker 1: to the table is an absolute trust in data quality

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Speaker 1: UM that that is not there with cameras. So what

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Speaker 1: you see from Tesla is they've gotten in some hot

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Speaker 1: water because occasionally, and it is occasionally, the cars get

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Speaker 1: confused with camera technology because cameras, because cars are basically

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Speaker 1: because Tesla UM has neural networks to try and decipher

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Speaker 1: what they see in video, right like humans, but they're

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Speaker 1: not as good exactly right, Yeah, So a camera needs

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Speaker 1: a neural network in order to interpret its environment UM,

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Speaker 1: and that sometimes gets confused, and so it sometimes crashes.

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Speaker 1: And that's really that's a really challenging UM situation to

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Speaker 1: be in if you want to go to full autonomy,

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Speaker 1: where people aren't paying attention and they get to fall

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Speaker 1: suits in their cars. Lighter, on the hand, other hand,

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Speaker 1: directly measures the information that you care about with no

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Speaker 1: additional post processing, and it does it so reliably that

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Speaker 1: Lighter is already used in safety critical environments across the

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Speaker 1: world like industrial settings UM and and it's trusted to

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Speaker 1: save people's lives day in and day out and has

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Speaker 1: for about thirty years in the industrial setting. So Lighter

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Speaker 1: doesn't get confused and you can truly trust the data

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Speaker 1: with your life, and so Tesla aside. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: does adoption of light ar look like? Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's really um So lidar is the third and kind

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Speaker 1: of last critical sensing technology after cameras and ratear. Sensors

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Speaker 1: and light are because you can trust your life on it,

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Speaker 1: and because it's so effective at understanding the true and

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Speaker 1: rich three D environment around anything any machine, whether it's rolling, flying, driving,

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Speaker 1: or monitoring those moving objects. It's the perfect sensor for

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Speaker 1: bringing our entire world into the autonomy age. And I

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Speaker 1: think of it as it's like finally realizing the future

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Speaker 1: that the Jetsons the Jetsons TV show laid out. So

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Speaker 1: flying cars drive and robots that delivery packages, um, safer

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Speaker 1: cross crosswalks with lower congestion at intersections, and yes, self

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Speaker 1: driving cars are all made possible because of lighter technology

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Speaker 1: in combination with the autonomy technology stack that rides above it.

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Speaker 1: And so it's a really fantastic, safer, cleaner, less congested,

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Speaker 1: more efficient, higher quality of life future that we're building

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Speaker 1: through a combination of lighter sensors and and affordable autonomy technology.

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Speaker 1: It does make sense. I mean from what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: it makes sense to me to combine it with video

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Speaker 1: and you don't need I guess, radar UM and and

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Speaker 1: the neural network. But what Tesla says is that you

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Speaker 1: have to pre map the environment with a light ar

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Speaker 1: and then create a high dep map and then insert

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Speaker 1: the lanes. And if you have to do that, it

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Speaker 1: seems like a lot of computing power. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's just kind of that that's that's the legacy way

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Speaker 1: of thinking about it. But most companies using LIDER today

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Speaker 1: don't pre map, and they do similar things. It's a

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Speaker 1: similar software stack and algorithmic stack to camera technology, but

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Speaker 1: they don't have to rely as heavily on machine learning UM,

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Speaker 1: which is great. Machine learning is great at distinguishing between

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Speaker 1: a hot dog and your cat in an image nine

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, but it's not great at doing

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Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the time and an auto and

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Speaker 1: then you know, when when human life is involved, you

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Speaker 1: want to be able to do it a d percent

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Speaker 1: of the time. Solider allows you to remove some of

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Speaker 1: the fancy machine learning, trust the data with your life,

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Speaker 1: just kind of the raw data coming out of the sensor,

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Speaker 1: but also apply some of the learnings that we've gotten

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Speaker 1: from the camera world. So you know, we don't have

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Speaker 1: to pre map anymore. That's not what companies are doing today.

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Speaker 1: It is what companies thought about doing five years ago,

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Speaker 1: but the industry has moved on from that, and I

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Speaker 1: think TUSSA was just kind of right in not premapping,

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Speaker 1: And so I solicited questions from our Blueberg news Print

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Speaker 1: team about what to ask you. And Andrew Grant said

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Speaker 1: that the most important question for lighter companies right now

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Speaker 1: is whether A d S or a v S are

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Speaker 1: the most important market. A d S a d a

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Speaker 1: S being advanced driver assistant systems, a VS being autonomous vehicles.

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Speaker 1: Which of those markets do you see is more important

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Speaker 1: for your company? Yeah, well, well this is one of

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Speaker 1: the places that OUST stands apart. So we've built this

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Speaker 1: more affordable, more performance digital lighter technology, putting lighter onto

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Speaker 1: literally one silicon chip, and that's allowed us to diversify

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Speaker 1: across many different applications and automotive, industrial, smarter prastruction, robotics,

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Speaker 1: and so we actually aren't trying to bet on whether

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Speaker 1: a v S or eight ASS is the more important

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Speaker 1: market because we're playing in both. Our products are literally

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Speaker 1: good enough to play in both, just like digital cameras

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Speaker 1: are able to play in the eight ASS market and

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Speaker 1: the AD market. Digital cameras go on telephone poles and

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Speaker 1: they also go on the drones that are flying on bars. Um.

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Speaker 1: So digital technology is so flexible you can address all

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Speaker 1: these markets. And I actually am a big believer in

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Speaker 1: both ADAS and a v s now eight AS I

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Speaker 1: think is the sure bet with huge volumes, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's more clear on how eight AS is moving from

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Speaker 1: L two plus hands on driver aware systems to L

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Speaker 1: three driver you know, hands free, eyes free systems, and

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Speaker 1: they're lighter plays a huge part and allowing a person

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Speaker 1: in the car to take notes on the way to

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Speaker 1: work and be hands free, eyes free. Um. But lighter

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Speaker 1: is also the critical sensing technology on autonomous vehicles and

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Speaker 1: in many cases it's the only sensor on an autonomous vehicle. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so that's going to happen. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: a little less because apes are such a high bar

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Speaker 1: in terms of technology and reliability. Are Our veteran war

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Speaker 1: reporter Greg Jarrett Angus points out that light ar is

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Speaker 1: extremely helpful in military applications. Do you, um, do you

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Speaker 1: see a big market there as well? Yeah, that's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: So um, lighter can be incredibly useful in situations like convoying.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a huge amount the number of support

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Speaker 1: vehicles in the military is far greater than the number

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Speaker 1: of active kind of UH fighting vehicles. And that's where

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Speaker 1: most casualties happen in wars, and the supply chain, and

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Speaker 1: so there's immense opportunities to automate a supply chain. Um,

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Speaker 1: these vehicles should be automated. It's fuel trucks, it's it's

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Speaker 1: food trucks with all kinds of supply vehicles that historically

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Speaker 1: have been hit by their their I D s and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and you really would like those vehicles

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Speaker 1: just be autonomous. It's so fascinating. I wish we had

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Speaker 1: more time, Angus. Hopefully we can get you back. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us and Angus. Pacola there the

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Speaker 1: CEO of ALSTA. Let's get over now to Dave Harden.

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Speaker 1: He is the founder and president of Summit Global Investors. Dave,

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Speaker 1: what do you take from the kind of alatility that

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Speaker 1: we've seen, you know, wash through commodities because of this

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Speaker 1: war um in two rates and and kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: on this side of the Atlantic, it hasn't rocked the

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Speaker 1: equity markets as much as it has on the other side,

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Speaker 1: but we still were, uh, you know, down three percent

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Speaker 1: on Monday, up three percent yesterday, now we're down again today.

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Speaker 1: How do you deal with this? Well, you know, this

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Speaker 1: volatility has made everybody understand that risk is important, right,

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Speaker 1: So people people need to understand that risk management is

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Speaker 1: essential to having better portfolios. And the better they understand

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Speaker 1: what's in their portfolio, the better of the portfolio performers

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Speaker 1: they hope. So having some exposure right now the commodities

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Speaker 1: or word overweight energy, I think those things are very

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Speaker 1: prudent in the portfolio. And maybe some people might even

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Speaker 1: say energies. The more defense you heard, the you know,

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Speaker 1: the expert come on and say, hey, I think it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be here and settle into this range. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of truth to that. So it's really hard

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Speaker 1: to go to somebody like Venezuela. It's really hard to

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Speaker 1: go to somebody out there that you know, we haven't

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Speaker 1: really been friends with with Iran and switch hands from

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Speaker 1: one dictator to another dictator. So from our standpoint, I

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Speaker 1: think you have to have some commodity exposure, energy exposure

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Speaker 1: in your portfolio, and our models, from a quantitative perspective,

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Speaker 1: from a risk perspective, all tell us and a fundamental

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Speaker 1: outlook that having some of that exposure is important, but

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be volatile. So I think in a volatile

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Speaker 1: market you have to look for things to protect the

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Speaker 1: down and still get some of the upside. You know,

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Speaker 1: mathematically people forget that if you only went down half

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Speaker 1: of what the market went down every day, you would

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Speaker 1: only need to go up six in the up market

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Speaker 1: to outperform. So it's a lot better to try to

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Speaker 1: protect in volatility than it is trying to get that upside.

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Speaker 1: You know, when the market's up to I want to

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Speaker 1: be up two point two. That's a lot harder to

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Speaker 1: do and you get crushed on the down. So my

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Speaker 1: advice and volatility is start to look at risk and

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Speaker 1: start to manage risk. And you can find that in

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Speaker 1: some defensives right now. You can find that in health

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Speaker 1: care right now. So that's some of the things that

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Speaker 1: we're doing for our clients. And if we are six

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Speaker 1: short days away from the FED meeting, and the narrative

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Speaker 1: for a few months now has been you know, the

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Speaker 1: FED put is dead. You're not going to see the

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Speaker 1: central bank come in and prop up asset prices. But

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Speaker 1: I mean the SMP five hundred flirting with correction territory.

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Speaker 1: At what point do you think that makes FED policymakers blink? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: they blinked when we when Russia invaded Ukraine. Remember that Thursday.

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Speaker 1: They came out and there was so much FED speak.

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Speaker 1: They were almost scared. And I'm putting in my language here.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in their mouth, but

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Speaker 1: they were almost scared to see a negative three and

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Speaker 1: a half percent down day. They had to come out

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Speaker 1: and talk about that they might not raise interest rates

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Speaker 1: as much and they might not do this. And we

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Speaker 1: saw that swing negative three and a half percent to

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Speaker 1: positive three and a half percent. Why only because the

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Speaker 1: FED right, So we've already seen them blink. They're they're

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Speaker 1: absolutely worried about this market. And I'm not saying they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be, but the BED making a mistake, a policy mistake,

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Speaker 1: has definitely increased because of what's going on in the

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Speaker 1: world today. Their their vision is not as clear. It's cloudy.

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Speaker 1: If you will inflation, I mean seven point nine. Really,

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Speaker 1: what does it matter if it's seven point nine or

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Speaker 1: eight or set the point is seven inflation, that's the point.

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Speaker 1: So they are backed into a corner um and this

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Speaker 1: creates a lot of problems and it increases the larger

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Speaker 1: downside risks. Again another reason why for our clients as

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Speaker 1: a whole, you need to look at managing risks. We

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Speaker 1: we do see the market is priced in a lot

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Speaker 1: of of of hikes and I guess we'll talk with

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Speaker 1: you about that a little bit later, David. Great having

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Speaker 1: you on the program, Dave Harden talking to us about

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing. Now, now let's get over to Amos Shaw,

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Speaker 1: the president of A. L. T R. Creed Diamonds, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we've seen such incredible swings in commodity prices, Amish,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if the diamond industry has been hit the

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Speaker 1: same way as um the moves we've seen in oil

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Speaker 1: or in gold, et cetera. Even though, of course the

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Speaker 1: kind of diamonds that that you're creating are different than

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Speaker 1: the kind that are mined. So the overall diamond industry

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Speaker 1: in the inflationary situation in the last six months has

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Speaker 1: already seen almost like a price increase. However, with the

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Speaker 1: current situation of conflict with the Russia being almost of

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Speaker 1: the diamonds in circulation in about twy of new production

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Speaker 1: that comes in the system is everywhere from those areas.

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Speaker 1: Um there is no direct sanctions on diamonds, the sanctioned

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Speaker 1: around the bank as well as the CEO. However, it's

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Speaker 1: the consumers sentiment that's going to make the most difference.

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Speaker 1: So with the consumers starting to talk about it, I

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Speaker 1: think we're expecting a price search in a tightening of supply. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I mean we all. I feel like it's been well broadcast.

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Speaker 1: How big of a supplier of you know, energy of

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Speaker 1: natural gas Russia is haven't heard as much about diamonds.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting that this is happening at the same

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Speaker 1: time as you know, we're heading into a so called

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Speaker 1: wedding boom. I don't know. If I look at my mailbox,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten so many safe the dates for the coming year,

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Speaker 1: how because they were put off for two years exactly exactly. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that you do have you know

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Speaker 1: already you're seeing these price increases given the demand obviously

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Speaker 1: is growing as well. I mean, how how much higher

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Speaker 1: do you think the prices could naturally go? Here? I

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Speaker 1: think the consumer sentiment could rise this anything between ten. However,

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Speaker 1: UM geopolitically shift. Consumer today is starting to look at

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Speaker 1: the options because today they have a choice. They have

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Speaker 1: a choice of created diamonds, labgown diamonds that are grown

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Speaker 1: above the earth, that are not grown in these contract territories,

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Speaker 1: cutting polished in other countries, and jewelry is made either

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Speaker 1: in US or in Asia. So they have a choice

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Speaker 1: with US going you know, we're expecting two point five

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Speaker 1: million million millennials to get married this to get engaged

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Speaker 1: this year, So there is a choice. Um, the price

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Speaker 1: is going to be subjected to how long this conflict last?

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Speaker 1: Where are your Where do you do all of your work?

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Speaker 1: Where do you create your diamonds and cut and polish them?

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Speaker 1: Is is Russia? Part of the supply chain? No are

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Speaker 1: growing is actually in India. Cutting and polishing is in India.

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Speaker 1: The design of jewelry is done in United States. And

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Speaker 1: we finished jewelry between China and United States. How much

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Speaker 1: how much of competitor are you too? You know earth

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Speaker 1: mind diamonds. I mean when people are looking, um, do

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Speaker 1: they get to see both choices? Is price um roughly

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Speaker 1: in line? Is the quality indistinguishable? So u A Alto

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Speaker 1: created diamond is chemically, optically and physically same as an

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Speaker 1: earth mind diamond. The only difference that's grown about the

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Speaker 1: Earth from a price value being that we are not

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Speaker 1: a part of a monolith pricing strategy. It's demand and supply.

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Speaker 1: So today, uh, it's almost a fifty better value. So

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Speaker 1: you almost get a fifty percent larger diamond for the

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Speaker 1: same price. And the best part is over seventy of

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Speaker 1: consumers today that shop for engagement drinks are aware of

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Speaker 1: lab grown diamonds, and so, I mean, I could definitely

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Speaker 1: see how this would be a tail when for lab

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Speaker 1: grown diamonds. But what about some of the diamond alternatives.

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Speaker 1: I hope I say this word right. Mossonites, that's something

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Speaker 1: you hear about more and more as sort of a

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Speaker 1: substitute for exactly Yeah, I can't even pretend to pronounce that.

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Speaker 1: But how how do you see that competitive landscape unfolding? Actually,

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Speaker 1: this is very good you brought it up because in

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen UM the US Federal Commission made sure

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Speaker 1: that these can no longer be even identified to look

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Speaker 1: like or market it as diamond alternatives. Cubic, zirconia and

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Speaker 1: moisonite are actually formed from chemicals. One is their conium

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Speaker 1: dioxide and another is another chemical that is given the

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Speaker 1: form in a structure to look like a diamond. They're

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Speaker 1: actually not diamonds. Only earth mine diamonds and lab grown

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Speaker 1: diamonds and ultra created diamonds are carbon. They are diamonds.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting I'm seeing such a broad price range um

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Speaker 1: when I look up just google Altar created diamonds and

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Speaker 1: click on the shopping tab. Some of them are two

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Speaker 1: rand three grand for two carrots. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: fifteen grand for two carrots. So it depends on the quality.

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Speaker 1: Just like earth Mind diamonds, the difference of prize is

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Speaker 1: relative to the characteristics the shape, the size, the color

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Speaker 1: and clarity. They are graded just like earth Mind diamonds

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Speaker 1: because they're both diamonds, and hence the pricing is uh

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Speaker 1: to the Four Seas and ultimately the demand and supply

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Speaker 1: for them, and thee very important thing that has changes.

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Speaker 1: Technology evolved, the value has got better for the consumer

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Speaker 1: and excessibility has gone easier. All right, Amy, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us, Amy Shaw, their president of alter

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Speaker 1: Created Diamonds. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

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00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three, pet On Ball Sweeney,

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00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwid at Bloomberg Radio m