1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, a beautiful young mom seemingly 2 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: disappears off the face of the earth than a twist 3 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: in the case. Why has Alison's case gone cold? In fact, 4 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: I don't think it has gone cold. I think that 5 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: authorities are simply not willing to act crime stories with 6 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know, recently we heard a lot about 7 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: the Bill Cosby case, how the original prosecutor was basically 8 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: afraid to take the case to trial, afraid of a 9 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: David and Goliath scenario where he was David and Casey 10 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: was Goliath. Well, let's go to the end of that story. 11 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: David won the battle. David actually slew Goliath. My question 12 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: is why our district attorneys elected to do the right thing, 13 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: always win or lose, afraid to take on a case 14 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: they might maybe lose, instead of always and always seeking justice. Well, 15 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: let's find out. First of all, take a listen to this. 16 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: Before moving to Wilmington, North Carolina, Alison Jackson Foy enjoyed 17 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: working with children. She was a dance teacher at her 18 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: father's New York dance studio. She was also a gymnastics coach. 19 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: She married Michael Foy and the family Alison, Michael, and 20 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: their two daughters moved to Wilmington. Foy gets a job 21 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: at a local hotel and earns a promotion to assistant manager. Wow, 22 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: a dance teacher married, great job moving up within that too, 23 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: assistant general manager. That's not easy. You were just hearing 24 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: our friends at crime online dot com. So how does 25 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: Alison Jackson Foy suddenly go missing? Listen to our friend 26 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: Hannah Patrick Wway three. Alison was working the day she 27 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: went missing. She had left to work here and was 28 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: going to celebrate with a friend of hers, and so 29 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: they went to what was it's not anymore Junction Pub 30 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: at the time, Junction Pub was right here on Carolina 31 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: Beach Road. It is now known as Mad Cats. She 32 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: had a couple of glasses of wine. Her friend at 33 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: the time said to her, you know, you shouldn't drive home, 34 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and she said, oh no, and he said, no, you 35 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't trifh home. Let me call you a cab. Then 36 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Valentino says, the bartender called one for her. Somebody walked 37 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: in the bar and so, I did someone call a 38 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: cab and they said, yeah, we did, And she walked 39 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: out with the cab driver and that was the last 40 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: that she was ever seen walk out to get a 41 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: cab and she's never seen alive again. You know, we 42 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: just recently cover the case of a young woman heading 43 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: to law school who was out celebrating the end of 44 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: Undergraund with her friends, goes out to get in her 45 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: uber and she's never seen alive again. In her case, 46 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: there was a resolution, and Allison's case not so much. Again, 47 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grays, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 48 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: being with us. I want to introduce to you an 49 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: all star panel joining me to make sense of it all. 50 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: Bob Buner, the former montaur County District Attorney and past 51 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: president of the Pennsylvania District Attorney's Association. And that is 52 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: not an easy thing to achieve. Doctor Jerry Crossen, Psychologist, 53 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: faculty Saint Leo Universe CITs, a consultant author of Operation 54 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: s O S. Doctor Tim Gallagher medical examiner for the 55 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: entire state of Florida and you can find him at 56 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine 57 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: and founder and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death 58 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: Investigation Conference. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Coldcase 59 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: Research Institute forensics expert. You can find her at coldcasecrimes 60 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: dot org. Ben Shopman news director w h q R News, 61 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: the NPR affiliate in Wilmington, North Carolina, former editor Port 62 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: City Daily, and you can find him on Twitter at 63 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: Ben Underscore Shopman. But first, listen to our friends at ID. 64 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: A thirty four year old mother of two vanishes after 65 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: a night out. A detective colemicists just want to let 66 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: you know that your daughter, US missing detectives aren't convinced 67 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: she's in danger. All signs led to the likelihood that 68 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: she had left the area on her own, according you 69 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: were hearing Alison's dad speaking about. Right now joining me 70 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: is Alison's sister. This is Lisa A Valentino, who over 71 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: time I feel has become a friend. She has never 72 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: given up on finding the truth of what happened to 73 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: her sister. Lisa is now with q CUE Center for 74 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Missing Persons at nc Missing Persons dot org. Lisa, thank 75 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us, Thank you for having me. 76 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: You know, Lisa, I know it gets exhausting to rehash 77 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: the story of your sister's disappearance, and I know that 78 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: feeling to this day I hate it when people bring 79 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: up to me my fiance's murder just before our wedding, 80 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: and that was a long long time ago. Now if 81 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: I bring it up that, I guess that means I'm 82 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: milly and emotionally prepared to talk about it. But when 83 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: someone just asked me about it out of the blue, 84 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: it's like somebody throws cold water on my face. And 85 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: also after you talk about it, it just leaves me 86 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: feeling weary, weary and drained. And I imagine it's the 87 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,559 Speaker 1: same thing for you. So I specially want to thank 88 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us, and I want to take 89 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: you back. Tell me how did you learn Alison was missing? 90 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: So my family and I with my other brother and 91 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: a sister and our children, we were on a vacation 92 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: to the White Mountains in New Hampshire, which we had 93 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: done every year, and we were kind of out of 94 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: touch with my dad for that period of time for 95 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: whatever reason, because I guess you didn't want to bother 96 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: us on vacation. I had talked to my sister Alison 97 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: the day before we went on vacation because it was 98 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: my daughter Emily's birthday, and on our way back from 99 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. We get a phone call from my father 100 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: saying that there was a message at the time his 101 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: answering machine from Wilmington PD stating that Allison had been missing. 102 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: And so that's the first we heard of it. And 103 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: immediately the three of us, my brother and sister and 104 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: I made plants to drop off our family and get 105 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: on a plane that night and head to Wilmington, and 106 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: that's what we did. I met my dad there and 107 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: the four of us arrived there together. You know, to 108 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: doctor Jorry cross In psychologist faculty Saint Leo University and author, 109 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: doctor Jory, when people are confronted with knees like this, 110 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: your sister's missing, I'm projecting, I know. But when I 111 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: was told something horrible had happened to Keith, it didn't 112 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: seem real. I really didn't. I couldn't take it in. 113 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: And as the minutes past, I convinced myself he wasn't dead, 114 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: that he had just been hurt, and that it must 115 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: have been a car crash and if I could just 116 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: get to him, I could fix it. I could find 117 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: out what was going on. I could sort the whole 118 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: thing out. Why is that, doctor Jory, Because we hear 119 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: one thing, but we process something completely different. Here she 120 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 1: is on a vacation with her family and she finds 121 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: out her sister, her beloved sister, is missing. You know, 122 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: it's all part of trying to balance the trauma, the unknown, 123 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: the tremendous amount of stress that you know, now the 124 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: reality isn't setting in yet because you're still trying to 125 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: process it. You're trying to figure out what if? Where? 126 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: You know, where's the answers? How else is this going 127 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: to get resolved? Anytime we're faced with ambiguity, you know 128 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: that we can't resolve it. It creates the anxiety and 129 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: the stress, and unfortunately that's you know, trauma is a 130 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: wound d and that's a psychological wound that sometimes you 131 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: never I think to you, Cheryl mccollum'm director of the 132 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute. You and I've dealt with a 133 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: lot of cases and a lot of crime victims, and 134 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: I think it's so out of the ordinary, and it's 135 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: so bizarre for people to learn their husband and their 136 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: sister they're just missing. It's I don't think people are 137 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: emotionally I don't think we're actually wired hardwire to take 138 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: in that kind of news. No, I agree, And I 139 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: think it's one of those things where you know your 140 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: mind protects you from that, so you slowly come to 141 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: the realization of what is actually happening. So I think 142 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a gift that you can't accept 143 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: things so traumatic instantly. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight 144 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: back out to Lisa Valentino. This is Alison's sister who 145 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: has kept her case alive. Do you remember what it 146 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: was like? I'm projecting again, but I remember I had 147 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: just gotten the twins to New York to go ice skating, 148 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: and we had gotten there, I got them unpacked, bathed 149 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: in the bed, and I got a call from my 150 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: mom that they were putting my dad on life support. 151 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: And I remember frantically trying to get them dressed. And 152 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: it was midnight and I was out on the street 153 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: in New York with the children, and I was trying 154 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: to hail a cab to get to any airport to 155 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: try to get home. Do you remember what it was 156 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: like trying to get to Wilmington. I do. And I 157 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: also remember the moment that my father told me that 158 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: she was missing, that I had this sinking feeling that 159 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: she was no longer alive. I don't know why I 160 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: felt that, but I felt that from almost the beginning, 161 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: although I pushed that to the side and again went 162 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: through and went on this trip, and I just I 163 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: think it's like you say, I almost I just I 164 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: couldn't believe actually what I was hearing, and how does 165 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: this happen to us? Type of thing? And then you 166 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: know that feeling of helplessness and not even knowing what 167 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: to do. But somehow we just have to go there 168 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: and be there and try to figure it all out. 169 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: You know, Bob Beinger is joining me, former Montour County 170 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: District Attorney, former president of the Pennsylvania District Attorney's Association, 171 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: by being or you know, it is so difficult dealing 172 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: with crime victims families, especially when they're blindsided with news 173 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: like this, when you know a loved one as having 174 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: as living a very risky lifestyle like they're doing drugs, 175 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: which means they're buying drugs from a dope dealer, or 176 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: they have a life of crime where they're in danger 177 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: all the time, or they do something perilous for work. 178 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: It's the pain is no less, but they've got to 179 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: have an inkling that danger is lurking when you've got 180 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: a mom health the young mom who is not living 181 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: a risky lifestyle is moving up in her business. I mean, 182 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: it's even more of a shock. It's very hard dealing 183 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: with crime victims, families victims like this. It sure is 184 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: a Nancy end. And so you have that period of 185 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: what if that you have to go through with crime victims. 186 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: You know, there's a disappearance, but there's that great onknown 187 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: out there as to what really happened. And the only 188 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: thing exactly the only thing not knowing yes, And the 189 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: only thing you can do is to promise as a prosecutor, 190 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: an elected district attorney, is to do everything in your 191 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: power to bring closure and finality to the victims. Family. 192 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: Joining me right now is a news director or whq R, 193 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: the NPR affiliate there in Wilmington. Ben tell me about 194 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: this place where she goes missing. She was out celebrating. 195 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: Then what happened? I mean, that's the most important question, Nancy. 196 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: The junction pub was. I actually used to go there 197 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: back in the day. You know, it was kind of 198 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: a dive. A cab driver, Timothy craig Anuni picked her up, 199 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: and that's the last were we hear from her. So 200 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: how did Alison get reported missing? Listen? They said to us, 201 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: We received the phone call from her husband that she 202 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: hasn't come home and that you know, he doesn't know 203 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: where where she is. And the last place we know 204 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: she was seeing was out of place called Junction Pub 205 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: and Billiards after she finished a shift at work. Alison 206 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: had just gotten a new job. She was assistant manager 207 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: of a holiday inn here in town, and she supposedly 208 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: had gotten out to celebrate after work with a friend 209 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: of hers. They found her car at the establishments I 210 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: think a couple of days later. Lisa, we are hearing 211 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: from you what exactly happened that we know of to 212 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: your sister Alison? But am I understanding her husband is 213 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the one that reported her missing? That's correct, her husband 214 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: is the one who reported her missing. Did he call 215 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: around to find out? But wait? Wait? Wait? Did you 216 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: live near her at the time? So no, I lived 217 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: in New Jersey, right, and my dad and the rest 218 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: of my family were in New York, were Delaware, and 219 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: she was in William So there was no need to 220 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: call around and go, hey, is she over there? Have 221 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: you seen her? Have you here? Okay? Because At first 222 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: I thought that was a little suspicious, but now I understand. 223 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: He directly called nine one one straight back out to 224 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: Lisa Valentino, this is Allison's sister. How did police respond 225 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: to your inquiries at the beginning when also went missing? Oh? Well, 226 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: I have to say that it was not great. They 227 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: took us to the police departments. They sat us down 228 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: in a room and they basically told us that they 229 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: thought she had walked away, that she had done this 230 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: of her own accord and of her her own will, 231 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: and my father and I immediately said, well, that's not Allison. 232 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: If she was going to do this as she would 233 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: have taken her children with her and be she would 234 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: have called me or my father or someone had said, look, 235 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: this is my plan, I'm leaving. I'm going off the 236 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: grid for a bit, and you know, just leave me 237 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: alone for a little while. But she would have been 238 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: in touch. You know, I want to go to you. 239 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum found her and director of the Cold Case 240 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: Research Institute. Why why for Pete's sake? When women got missing? 241 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: Still to this day, law enforcing goes, she's just out 242 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: with her boyfriend. You know. One of the last times 243 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: I heard that was when Stacy Peterson went missing. Remember her. 244 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people have forgotten her. I have it 245 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: that was Jue Peterson's fourth wife. One the second or 246 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: third wife, Kathleen Savio ends up dead, drowned and a 247 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: bone dry bathtub covered in bruises, and then Stacy goes missing. 248 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: And to this day, if I asked je Peterson will say, Oh, 249 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: she's out with her boyfriend. What boyfriend? She's gonna leave 250 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: her children to go be with a boyfriend nobody's ever 251 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: heard of? So why it literally drives me mad. Again, 252 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: if you look at the victim and you do the 253 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: victimology first, which they should do in the Indian investigation, 254 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: what they would find in this case. And in most cases, 255 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: women do not leave their children behind because they're in 256 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: a marriage they don't want to be in any longer. 257 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: Everybody listening to this show right now knows twenty women 258 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: that have gotten a divorce. Not one of them took 259 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: up powder and left their kids somewhere. Not one. So 260 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: if you look at what happened here with Alison, she 261 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: had a loving family, she had children that she adored. 262 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: She didn't take any money, she didn't take herself phonn't. 263 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: She didn't take her car, she didn't take any clothes, 264 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: she didn't have a lover. So you're you're not looking 265 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: at the totality of this person. You're just saying, oh, 266 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: she was at a bar. Oh, well, she must have 267 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: just walked away to go where it's not plausible. Didn't happen? 268 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: Straight out to Ben Schotman joining us in whq R. Ben, 269 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: then the case takes quite a twist. Tell me about 270 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: the remains that were discovered. Yeah, that was in April 271 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight. Allison's remains were found on 272 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: with those of Angela Nimbles, Rofinum mirror on Carolina Betrode. 273 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: Both had you know, a fatal nape wounds. You don't 274 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: want to follow up upon that, Doctor Tim Gallagher, the 275 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. You can 276 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: find me at pathcaremad dot com. Doctor Gallagher. With that 277 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: amount of time passing, how could they still determine death 278 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: was by knife wound? Well, if you look at the 279 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: remains and most of the time at for that amount 280 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: of time passing, it would be the skeletal remains. You 281 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: can find the butcher marks that the knife makes on 282 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: the bones themselves, and you can determine if that was 283 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: happening while they were alive, while they were deceased, and 284 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: you can use those marks, those butcher marks on the 285 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: bones to determine what the manner of death and the 286 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: cause of death would be. So stabbings, stabbing would leave 287 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: the would call them curf marks from the knife on 288 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: the bone, and that would give us our cause of death. 289 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: Can nick, right, it would be a nick or a 290 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: slice or a bladed mark that the knife leaves on 291 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: the bone. And if it's a say a rib bone 292 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: or a spine or even a skull, you know that 293 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: that could not have happened after their death from like say, 294 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: animal predation or injuries that occurred after their death. So you, specifically, 295 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, can look at a bone and her she 296 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: went missing July thirty, two thousand and six. Her body 297 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: was found almost two years later April two thousand and eight. 298 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: You could look at a bone and determine whether a 299 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: nick in the bone was caused by a bullet, by 300 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: a knife, or by animal predation. You can look at 301 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: it and tell that how oh, absolutely, there's an entire 302 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: field dedicated to that. Forensic anthropology, and that forensic anthropologist 303 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: has the technical skill and the training to determine that. 304 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: If you see a mark on the bone that is 305 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: not natural, that is very very angular, and there is 306 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: no healing, there is no healing process going on, then 307 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: you know that that had occurred at around they called 308 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: the perimortem period, or about the time that they died. 309 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: If there is teeth marks, if there is gnawing, if 310 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: there is other damage to the bone caused by animals, 311 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: we could even determine what animal it was by the 312 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: prints that it left on the bone, by the evidence 313 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: that it's left on the bone. So if a forensic 314 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: anthropologist or a medical examiner determined that they have knife 315 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: wounds on the bone, I would be strongly in favor 316 00:20:49,840 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: of that manner of examp and contrapt crime stories with 317 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace to Bob, you know, joining me if we're 318 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: a Montour County District attorney, you know, Bob, it would 319 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: take me hours with a medical examiner like doctor Tim 320 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: Gallagher to break down what he just said in a 321 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: way that not only I could understand it, but a 322 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: jury could understand it. And I always try to make 323 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: it like stories that are understandable to both me and 324 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: the jury. For instance, if a bullet were to crack 325 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: through a bone or a let's just say the side 326 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: of your car, it cracks around it. It's not just 327 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: the entry. It destroys a certain amount around it the 328 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: bullet entry. If an animal I remember seeing a bag 329 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: of I guess it was potato chips that were sealed 330 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: and left somewhere, but a little mouse had been gnawing 331 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: on them, and you could see, actually see the little 332 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: naw marks on the bag. So you compare those two 333 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: and with a knife you see a slant, you may 334 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: actually see a slant, or you see where the point 335 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: of the knife hit the bone. So all three of 336 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: those will look completely differently. So you have to break 337 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: it down like that or make it explainable to a jury. Look, 338 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: you and I just have JD's. Gallagher has got an MD. 339 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: So somehow you got to decipher all that for a 340 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: jury and Nancy. The way to do it is through 341 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: photographs and a sort of a chronological explanation of the 342 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: autopsy and going back and forth between a person like 343 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher who can easily relate to a jury, and 344 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: the photographs that are projected to the jury in the Yeah, 345 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: a slide show. You know, slide shows are always the 346 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: way to go. You're absolutely right, you know, to be 347 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: in shopman joining us w HQR. Tell me about the 348 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: circumstances surrounding the discovery of Alison's remains. What she buried? Was? 349 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: I know it was near a row, but was a 350 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: wooded area? Was she just thrown along the side of 351 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: the freeway as I've seen in many cases, which suggests 352 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: she was thrown out of a car. She said she 353 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: was there with another set of remains or the two connected. 354 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: They have to be tell me. Early on there was 355 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: actually some discussion that this could have been the work 356 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: of a serial killer, just because of some of the similarities. 357 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: It was set off back off the road, so there 358 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: was some real concern there, and I think that sort 359 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: of coincided when police started taking this case at least 360 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: a bit more seriously. What do you mean started taking 361 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: the case a bit more seriously. Well, as Lisa told you, 362 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, early on, an officer had told her that 363 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: they expected to find Alpin with me in her arms 364 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: and known they thought that this was um, you know, 365 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: drug related, or you know, they didn't they weren't treating 366 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: this like a homicide, certainly, but this boy, well I 367 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: stopped just a second man. Why would they say that 368 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: about Alison callousness? That's a good question. Um. It seemed 369 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: to have been a pet theory of some of the 370 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: officers who were working in a case early on. Lisa. 371 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: Did she have any history of that? I mean not 372 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: to my knowledge. She was, she was the breadwinner in 373 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: the family, she was taking care of her kids. I 374 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: don't get it, Lisa. Why would they say, oh, she's 375 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: just slung up with another man, or she's probably a dope. 376 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: She was none of that. I mean, again, there were issues, 377 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: there were problems in her marriage, but again I had 378 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: just seen her two weeks prior to this. She certainly 379 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: wasn't using while she was staying in my own So 380 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: I mean that was you know, that was the whole thing, 381 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 1: the whole time, trying to get them to believe they 382 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: had this idea of who she was, and I was 383 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: trying to say her, yes, yes, she went through hard time, 384 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: just there was some struggle, but you know, again I 385 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: never saw her using anything. You know, Cheryl, why is 386 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: this Why when a woman goes missing, she's immediately trashed, 387 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: dragged through them ud she's either sleeping around or oh, 388 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: she suddenly has become a drug user and she's outscoring drugs. 389 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: Why why does a woman's reputation have to be totally destroyed? 390 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: Why don't they just get off their rear ends and 391 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: go look for and again? If they would do the investigation, 392 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: all you had to do is talk to a few 393 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: people she worked with, her husband and her family, and 394 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: you would know this is not what we're dealing with, 395 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: not at all. So just do an investigation. Forget what 396 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: you think about this person that you've never met, Forget 397 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: the conclusion that you're drawing based on God forbid, a 398 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: woman goes and has a drink at a bar without 399 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: her husband, and suddenly you've got her in this whole 400 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: scenario of negativity that is not factually accurate. To Ben Shopman, 401 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: let me ask a couple of rapid fire questions. Was 402 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: her body buried? I don't believe so. Wasn't a wooded area, 403 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: It was near wooded area along that Carolina Beach Road area. 404 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: Was it near the side of the road then, I 405 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: don't remember exactly how far it was from the road. 406 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: Let me get a Lisa Valentine. I was it, Lisa, No, 407 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: it was it's back behind an abandoned restaurant. It was 408 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: a cut through the people. Use what it was a 409 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: cutthrough a lot of people. So it was back behind 410 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: an abandoned restaurant off of Carolina Beach Road. It was 411 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: fairly wooded, but on the other side there was a 412 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: cell tower and all this other stuff, and people would 413 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: cut through. In fact, that's how she was fined. It 414 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: was a passer by or cutting through the woods to 415 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: get to work who saw the bones and the remains. 416 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: So she was not buried, No, she was less lest. 417 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: Her clothes were still there, her jewelry was still there. 418 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: All of that was still there when she was recovered. Wow. 419 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: And and how far away was the other murder victim? Oh? 420 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: Maybe a foot or two. The interesting thing about the 421 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: other murder victim is she went missing a year after Alison. Wow. Okay, 422 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: let's digest that. Cheryl McCollum, what does that mean. I 423 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: think it means you've got a serial killer and this 424 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: is clearly his dumping ground. You've got two bodies that 425 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: were in feet of each other. One passer buyer found 426 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: the bones, so you've got bones that are visible to 427 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: anybody that would be in that area. Both the bodies 428 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: were also nancy in a little ravine, so they weren't 429 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: hidden and they weren't buried, but if you were to 430 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: scan in the landscape, you wouldn't have seen them, but 431 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: they were not hidden. What more do we know about 432 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: the discovery of Alison's remains? Take a lesson to our 433 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: cut sixteen. This is Hannah Patrick Wway three. In April 434 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Valentino says remains were found about 435 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: a mile and a half away from where she went missing. 436 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: The particular place where she was found it was like 437 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: a cut through and it was also I think a 438 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: known place where like guys took prostitutes. So someone was 439 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: passing by and they saw two sets of remains. While 440 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: waiting to get DNA results, Valentino made a trip to Wilmington. 441 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: I felt like I needed to see the place where 442 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: she last was, and so when we went to the site, 443 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: more sets of remains were found that you found. Yes, 444 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: me and my friend and Monica when we went to 445 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: visit the site, and those remains ended up being Allison's. 446 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: So in finding Allison's remains, the remains of another woman, 447 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: Angela Nobles, is found, but that's not all. Take a 448 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: listen to our cut eight from Thee's fourteen. The family 449 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 1: of a woman whose remains were found in Wilmington two 450 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: years ago returned to that area to follow up with investigators. 451 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: Alison Jackson Foy's father and sister talked with the district 452 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 1: attorney and police about the case. Thursday. Her remains were 453 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: found in a wooded area off of Carolina Beach Road, 454 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: alongside the remains of another woman, Angela often in two 455 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. So far, no arrests have been made. Now, 456 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: family members are concerned that just last month, the remains 457 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: of another woman for Scilla Rogers Or found a few 458 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: miles away from the other crime scene. Anytime they find 459 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: a body and I always follow everything very closely in 460 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: the Wilmington here news, it's always like, oh my gosh, 461 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: could this be connected, especially when it's in close proximity 462 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: to where my sister and Angela were found. Valentino says 463 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: authorities assured her that they're exploring all leads and they're 464 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: not ruling out any possibilities. The family recently started the 465 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: Alison Jackson four Memorial Fund, all donations go to the 466 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: Q Center from Missing Persons, which is based in Wilmington. 467 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: So now I've got three dead bodies in the space 468 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: of just a few miles, all three of them the 469 00:29:46,960 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: victims very very similar time stories with Nancy Grace to 470 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: Bob bun Or, a former Montera County District Attorney, what's 471 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: going on and why hasn't there been a prosecution? It's 472 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: because of the incredible reluctance of the new Hanover County 473 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: District Attorney, mister David, to either convene a grand jury 474 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: or to instruct the police, the Wilmington Police Department, to 475 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: file charges. Okay, let me understand something, Bob being or 476 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: it's my understanding. The last time we know Alison was 477 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: seen alive was when she got in the cab. We 478 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: even have a description of a guy coming in saying, hey, 479 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: did anybody call a cab? She goes me and she 480 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: left with this guy. We've even got a description. Has 481 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: he been cleared. No, he has not been cleared. As 482 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, in I think two thousand and seven, Nancy, 483 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: he was with another institute within a hundred yards of 484 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: where Allison's body and Miss Rawthin's body were found and 485 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: the woman alleged that he tried the raper in that area. 486 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: And he has had other criminal charges and convictions in 487 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: his background since then. So there's an amazing set of 488 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: coincidences that really, I think cry out for a grand jury. 489 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the coincidences. To Lisa Valentino, this is 490 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: Allison's sister joining us today. What are the coincidences, because 491 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people would call those coincidences evidence of guilt. 492 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: What are the so called coincidences regarding this cab driver. Well, yeah, 493 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: I guess. So we have always believed that Allison was 494 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time, 495 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: and that this person of interests who you know, Timothy 496 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: iron One, you know, thought she was someone or something 497 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: that she wasn't. As far as I know, Angela Rothon 498 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: had had some issues. Then. I guess what's known about 499 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: him is he used to pick up people for sex, 500 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: and so for years they tried to connect Alison to 501 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: those two women and they were never able to hold 502 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: on just a minute, let me understand something that you 503 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: just said, Lisa Valentino, Alison's sister. So the cab driver 504 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: that we know picked up your sister, the last night. 505 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: She was seen alive, has a history of being with 506 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: hookers and was found with a hooker about one hundred 507 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: yards from where your sister's body was found. And that 508 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: hooker says he tried to rape her. Yes, In fact, 509 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: she was duct taped in his cab. She managed to 510 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: get free and police came and arrested him. But at 511 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: the time, this woman, her name is Sonia Williams, she 512 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: didn't show up for the court date because of issues 513 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: she had privately and personally going on in her life, 514 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: and so he pleaded to a lesser crime, crimes against niazure, 515 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: and he was released. Okay, when you set crimes against nature? 516 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: Could you be more specific? I guess that's what they 517 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: call it, right, I'm not I don't. I don't know that. 518 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: Just the North Carolina statute for a little sex oral sex, 519 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: that's a crime against nature? And speaking is that Ben 520 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: or Bob? Sorry? Okay, she's duck tape and says he 521 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: tried to rape her, Yes, and he's a hundred Did 522 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: this happens one hundred yards from where your sister's body's 523 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: found along with another woman? Cheryl McCollum, Can somebody explain 524 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: to me what's going on? I mean, he just happens 525 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: to me one hundred yards from where her body's found, 526 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: and he's the last one seen with her, right So 527 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: you have two dead bodies right there and a third 528 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: woman attacked within yards, within yards, Nancy. And when all 529 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: enforcement catches up to him and they see the duct 530 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: tape and the hammer and some other things in his car, 531 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: he literally refers to it as a rape kit, doesn't he, Lisa? 532 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, I think that that was 533 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: found years later when he was on Rightsville Beach. That's 534 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: that even happened years later, So he just denies. Are 535 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: you talking about him having a rape kit? Correct? Okay? 536 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: And to you, Bobby, and could you explain what is 537 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,479 Speaker 1: a rape kit? A rape kit is various things such 538 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: as items to immobilize them a victim. There would be 539 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: things like condoms, duct tape, even weapons to cracker skull 540 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: or things of that nature. Do you know that Allison 541 00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: was stabbed between twenty seven and forty times. I find 542 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: it very difficult to believe doctor Tim Gallagher that she 543 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: was not raped and then murdered because her jewelry was 544 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: still on her, so she wasn't robbed. I believe the 545 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: husband who ends up calling reporting her missing is going 546 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: to be ruled out. It's hard for me to believe 547 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher that there is not some type of evidence 548 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: on her body. No DNA, no epiphilial skin cells, no nothing. Well, 549 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, also determines how long she's been exposed to 550 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: the environment before they found her. You know, a lot 551 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: of that stuff could have degraded, a lot of that 552 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: stuff could no longer exist. If her remains were a 553 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: skeletal remains, then there would be no soft tissue for 554 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: the cells to exist upon. Yeah, you know, so it 555 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: just depends on how decomposed the body was as to 556 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: the success in finding any of this DNA material. Bobier 557 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: explained to me why this case isn't moving forward, especially 558 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: with a similar transaction attempting to rape a hooker a 559 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: hundred yards from her body. Well, let me also say 560 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: there's another amazing coincidence that's not been spoken about. The 561 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: wife of mister iron One reported him to a private 562 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: detective as being a suspect in the disappearance and murder 563 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: of Allison. So when you add it all up, I 564 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: can't understand why District Attorney David hasn't done one of 565 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: two things, either convened an investigative grand jury or referred 566 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: this matter to the Attorney General of North Carolina. If 567 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: he is reluctant to prosecute you know, I want to 568 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: explore something that you just said that his own wife 569 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: reported him as a suspect and Alison's murderer. What do 570 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: we know about that? Lisa Valentino, Oh, I've I've spoken 571 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: with Susan Ironone multiple times. Yes, this was the place 572 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: that he and his wife used to shoot pool at. 573 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: The bartenders had his private cell number at the pub, 574 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: and I guess one day she went in and she 575 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: heard all these regulars talking about how her husband was 576 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: responsible for Alison going missing. And our private investigator also 577 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: had a radio show at the time still does, called 578 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: Blue Line Radio, and she called into she called she 579 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: called him, not his radio. She she called him and said, 580 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: what is this that I hear that you are all 581 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: accusing my husband Tim having to do something with Alison 582 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: Foy going missing. And she had also emailed me and 583 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: reached out and said, I'm a regular at the bar. 584 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: Please know that I'm praying that they find your sister. 585 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: So the private investigators took it from there and that's 586 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: how he came on the radar was from his wife, 587 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: Ben Shopman, joining us to bhq R. Where does the 588 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: case stand now? It is, for all intents and purposes, 589 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: a cold case. We've heard from multiple people at the 590 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: Womington Police Apartment. They believe Timothy Iamy is responsible for 591 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: Angela Rosan and Alson Jackson Foy. And the way the 592 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: worming Tin Police Apartment works with the District Attorney's office, 593 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: they could legally make an arrest, but the DA has 594 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: basically squashed that. That's our understanding. So unless you know 595 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,439 Speaker 1: the other guests are totally right, and unless Ben David 596 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: either does knven in grand jury or hands it off 597 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: to the state, it's not going to go anywhere, which 598 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,479 Speaker 1: is obviously heartbreaking for the for Lisa in her family. 599 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 1: We wait and pray for justice two unfold in the 600 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: murder of young mom Alison Jackson Foy. If you have information, 601 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: please call three zero two five seven six three nine 602 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: nine zero repeat three zero, two five seven six three 603 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: nine nine zero. It's never too late for justice to 604 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: take place. There is no statute of limitations on murder. 605 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace's crime story signing off goodbye friend,