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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing

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Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. I'm Frank Imperial and you're listening

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing from I Heart Radio. Hey Frank,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? Is there a technical problem? No problem

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Speaker 1: on this side. You just asked me to host an

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Speaker 1: archived show. Oh right, why do I keep forgetting that? Well?

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Speaker 1: Good luck with the show, Frank. Oh are you going

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Speaker 1: to mute me? Definitely? Two of the most popular shows

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Speaker 1: from the more than two fifty archival episodes of Here's

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Speaker 1: the Thing are radioheads Tom York and r E MS.

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Speaker 1: Michael Stipe, the frontman for two of the most interesting

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Speaker 1: and influential bands of the last several decades, have a

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Speaker 1: lot in comment. Michael Stipe was a founding member of

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Speaker 1: R A M, the band that practically defined alternative music

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and early nineties. R M released fifteen

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Speaker 1: studio albums and was inducted into the Rock and Roll

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame in two thousand seven. RIM broke up

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eleven, and Michael Stape has been

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Speaker 1: exploring other ways of making art and music since then.

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Speaker 1: But first Alex two interview with Tom York. He formed

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Speaker 1: Radiohead with some of his friends when he was just

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Since then, the band has been nominated

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Speaker 1: for eighteen Grammys, won three, and sold tens of millions

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Speaker 1: of records. Radioheads nine studio albums have demonstrated the group's

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Speaker 1: comfort with experimentation. Tom ne York said technology made some

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Speaker 1: of that easier. After we did Okay Computer. I finally

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Speaker 1: in the late late nineties you could like go on

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Speaker 1: tour with the laptop and it was powerful enough that

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Speaker 1: you could record, edit, use synthesizers, bit into it and

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't crash, and it was fairly stable. So I

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Speaker 1: first started getting into it then. And what I thought

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Speaker 1: was really interesting is when we were working on Okay Computer,

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Speaker 1: I started using learning the software that we were using

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Speaker 1: the studio to We were still mostly working on type

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Speaker 1: old school, but I suddenly thought, we'll hang on a minute.

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Speaker 1: If I can learn how all this equipment works, I'll

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Speaker 1: have a completely different way of thinking about how to write.

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Speaker 1: So I forced myself to learn all this equipment and

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Speaker 1: learn to use the laptop because a lot of music

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Speaker 1: I was into was being made electronically anyway, and I

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Speaker 1: kind of thought it would be interesting to do it

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Speaker 1: within the band, because normally musicians don't fall into doing

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Speaker 1: the production side of it or building the tracks. They're like,

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Speaker 1: stay this side of the studio, offense with the mix,

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Speaker 1: and let someone total. So I definitely was much more

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Speaker 1: into blurring that up. Did n produce both your solo albums? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: He does. He does a lot, and he did all

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Speaker 1: of the radio, Yeah he does. You attribute that to

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Speaker 1: having that kind of faith of someone. You find someone

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Speaker 1: you trust. I mean not all the time, and we

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Speaker 1: do argue a lot, but to have someone who's like,

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Speaker 1: um I sounding board all the time, it makes everything

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Speaker 1: so much more fun because if you're if you're knocking

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Speaker 1: out ideas, you can't edit them and knock them out

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Like if you're on the stage

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to get through your part or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you have to have someone out front saying, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: not working. I mean I do on my own a lot.

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Speaker 1: I do work. You know, you generate ideas, but all

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Speaker 1: I then have is a mountain of ideas that gradually

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Speaker 1: I don't have to sit through and it just takes

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Speaker 1: so long. It's so much more fun sharing it with

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Speaker 1: someone and you think about your four days into computerized music.

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Speaker 1: He was into it. I did wonder when I first

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Speaker 1: started doing it, but he was into it because he

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Speaker 1: watched me doing it in such a different way to him.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I was like a kid being given

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Speaker 1: a hammer. I was just handling away on stuff. I

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what I was doing, but he was

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Speaker 1: kind of fascinated about that, you know, and he'd come

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Speaker 1: and literally tidy up the mess I've done on the computer.

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Speaker 1: What were other people? Who were other people that were

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Speaker 1: working in that in that area that you listened to

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Speaker 1: who is making then? Then well then it was I

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Speaker 1: was obsessed with a X twin then and Oteca. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of really interesting things happening in Britain.

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Speaker 1: Then on this label called Warp and it was it

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Speaker 1: was first spell as in the warp w a RP

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Speaker 1: like the floor is warped after the fun Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: then I say, with your accent, that could have been

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Speaker 1: anyone of forwards. When on this label called wo Wo

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Speaker 1: Warm War, Warp Wall War, War whoop, yeah, saying like

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Speaker 1: we're saying here in the United States war it's war

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Speaker 1: country and Western record bit you bottom now and there boy,

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Speaker 1: so you you as you were, you were obsessed with

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Speaker 1: the music that was on Whoop Records because it didn't

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Speaker 1: have any guitars and I was having a troubled relationship

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Speaker 1: with my guitar at the time. Is that true? Well

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Speaker 1: not really. It's just like I ended up being in

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Speaker 1: a band, signing this to this big record label, and

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Speaker 1: it's a band and when big letters, so certain things

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Speaker 1: go with that. But yet when I was at college,

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a lot of other things, and

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Speaker 1: after a while it was like, oh, this is it's

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Speaker 1: really annoying that I felt like we couldn't break out

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Speaker 1: of that. So I just started forcing us to break

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Speaker 1: out of that because it didn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: You've been with those guys for how long now we

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Speaker 1: started when we're sixteen Radiohead, which is um Now I'm

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Speaker 1: forty four, so that's quite a while. And some bands

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Speaker 1: that have had a tremendous longevity, obviously the Rolling Stones

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Speaker 1: of the premier example, they've changed partners over the years,

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Speaker 1: like they were the New York Yankees. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: somebody else playing a third base every four or five years.

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Speaker 1: But you guys, it's the same cast of people obviously,

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Speaker 1: what do you attribute that to persistence my great diplomatic

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Speaker 1: skills not but there must be times when they've I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll never mccurrently said to me, even the Beatles got

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Speaker 1: tired of being the Beatles were the times you guys

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Speaker 1: said there and looked at each other and said, I

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Speaker 1: think we're done. I do that frequently, frequently, I mean

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Speaker 1: at least the others too, not as much. They just

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Speaker 1: wait for me to do it. Um. So, we just

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Speaker 1: did a tour last year, right, and it was probably,

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Speaker 1: in theory, the scariest one we've ever done, because it

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Speaker 1: was lots of big gigs, which I normally am spending

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Speaker 1: my time trying to shy away from. Why because you

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Speaker 1: can't achieve technically in a large space where you normally

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Speaker 1: want to exactly that you can't get across to people

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Speaker 1: the right way, I felt. So we did spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time and effort coming up with like a

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Speaker 1: stage design which used screens in a certain way which

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Speaker 1: made it intimate, even though you know, some nights was

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Speaker 1: like thirty or forty. People are trying to create some

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Speaker 1: sort of intimacy with that, and when it worked, it

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Speaker 1: was insane. It was because the upside of playing to

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Speaker 1: that many people is you have this really crazy collective

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Speaker 1: energy that you can tap into, like a crowd, you

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Speaker 1: know thing. There's one show we did in Phoenix that

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Speaker 1: sticks in my mind where there was something about maybe

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Speaker 1: that it was in Phoenix and people don't get the

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Speaker 1: opportunity those sort of people don't get the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: get together that often or something. There was some sort

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Speaker 1: of excitement within the crowd that was so great to

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Speaker 1: play with. When when we hit it musically, it felt

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Speaker 1: like the whole room, the whole of the building was moving. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: we both came off you know that, and it's bombed.

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Speaker 1: I understand that not from my own experience, but from

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Speaker 1: seeing artists perform. You know. I often asked myself, why

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Speaker 1: the hell would would you put yourself through this? Because

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Speaker 1: it's very stressful. It's a lot of pressure, and for

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Speaker 1: me mentally, I've just build myself up to it in

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Speaker 1: my head gradually and it sounds really precious, but it

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Speaker 1: messes with my head. I want to get to that

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Speaker 1: given to me a couple of hours before you go

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Speaker 1: out there, and you've got to blow this thing out

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Speaker 1: for all these people and just stone cold silence, basically

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Speaker 1: almost meditative. Well, yeah, I do. I do that and focused,

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Speaker 1: I stand on my head for a bit and basically

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Speaker 1: I'm completely on my own until five minutes before we

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Speaker 1: go on, and then we're all in the room together,

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Speaker 1: pacing up and down like wild animals, and then then

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Speaker 1: we're on. But when we first started doing big shows,

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Speaker 1: it was with my from Michael Stipe, and he does

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Speaker 1: the total opposite. He literally he'll be talking to you

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Speaker 1: and then someone taps in his should and then they're on.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, how the hell do you do that? Man?

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Speaker 1: And I tried to do it like that, I couldn't it,

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Speaker 1: and so I ended up going did he did? Did

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Speaker 1: you get any indication why Stipe could do that? There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of nice spiritual tones inside of R. E.

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Speaker 1: M's music too. Yeah, no, I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: what he used to do was you'd stand there for

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Speaker 1: the first two tunes, barely move. He was a sort

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Speaker 1: of lightning conductor and he was just waiting for it

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Speaker 1: to hit, and then when it hit, he was off.

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Speaker 1: But he would wait and if he wasn't going to hit,

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Speaker 1: he was still there three or four tunes later and waiting,

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Speaker 1: he kind of warmed up in front of everybody, engaging

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Speaker 1: it all, whereas I can't do that because I have

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Speaker 1: to sort of be clear of everything before, you know, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I need to um be completely empty. I started playing

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Speaker 1: guitar when I was seven. I sat down and said

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Speaker 1: I was going to be Brian May when it was

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Speaker 1: a lot of bad thing to be. And then I

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Speaker 1: tried to do I read like when I was ten

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Speaker 1: or something. I read that he built his first guitar himself,

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Speaker 1: which is when he still plays. So I tried to

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Speaker 1: do that, but my efforts would in that sense, you

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Speaker 1: were not Brian May in that sense of handcrafting of

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Speaker 1: the guitar. And I had to cheat with the neck

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Speaker 1: on the guitar. I found an older neighbor gave me

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Speaker 1: a neck of an electric guitar. That great. Okay, that's good,

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Speaker 1: but you know I was ten or eleven, so I

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Speaker 1: was trying to like bolt it together to this other

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Speaker 1: piece of wood that I had cut out, and it

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Speaker 1: was just a disaster. But it kind of worked, but

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Speaker 1: it was ugly. Was your family musical? Not really? No.

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Speaker 1: The only one that sticks out is barently my great grandmother.

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Speaker 1: She get really hammered and then stay up playing her

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Speaker 1: pump organ thing downstairs all night and keep the family up.

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Speaker 1: You were around, did your witness that I met her

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Speaker 1: once and she was kind of she wore black. I

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Speaker 1: was quite scary when I was really tiny. But now

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Speaker 1: that your parents were artists musicians, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: When the guitar came into your life when you're seven,

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Speaker 1: Brian May or no, was it music itself? And when

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Speaker 1: you moved by music itself? Or was it like many

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Speaker 1: people when they're very was rock stardom was? Never? It was?

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Speaker 1: It was you weren't running around your bedroom imitating Jagger

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Speaker 1: and you thought, like you want my My whole thing

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Speaker 1: was we didn't have any sound system in the house.

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Speaker 1: We had nothing, no high fi nothing except for in

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Speaker 1: my dad's car and had a type player in it.

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Speaker 1: So I when and would sit for hours. I would

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Speaker 1: sit for hours and it was the sound of Brian

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Speaker 1: May's guitar. Actually it was. It was one of those

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Speaker 1: funny things where you know, when you turned something up

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Speaker 1: and you're in a very controlled loud environment, just that

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Speaker 1: sound was just you know, nothing else. It was that

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Speaker 1: when you're that small and you've never I've never really

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Speaker 1: heard music particularly at all up until that point. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny, it's got a weird thing. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: lots of kids at that age that you know, their

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Speaker 1: parents didn't really have hi fires or anything as such.

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Speaker 1: You know, guy I didn't know who had a high

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Speaker 1: fight down the round and only played Albert, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was worse than not having one. But that was

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Speaker 1: me some of those goods. And then and then the guitar,

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to fashion your own guitar by the

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Speaker 1: time you're eleven, and then when you take another step

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Speaker 1: toward deepening your commitment, how old are you when you

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Speaker 1: form the band. I did have a band when I

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Speaker 1: was eleven. It was very exciting, like going around to

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Speaker 1: a friend's house is setting up and jamming, and all

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Speaker 1: our mates would come and hang out and girls, which

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Speaker 1: I thought, this is interesting, But that sort of fell

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Speaker 1: two bits because I kept fighting with the drummer. And

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Speaker 1: I need to get this together really and just went

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Speaker 1: around the school sort of choosing people. So you went

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Speaker 1: around picking people. I got it. I got it because

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Speaker 1: he was dressed like Morrissey, and he had some cool socks,

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Speaker 1: and I saw he had a guitar. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea where they could play or not. I don't really care.

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Speaker 1: I got Colin because I knew Colin could play very

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Speaker 1: well and I needed a base player could play very well.

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Speaker 1: But he had never played bass before. And his brother

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Speaker 1: Johnny was this mythical musical prodigy, so roped him in.

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Speaker 1: And then Phil was the only drama we knew anyway,

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Speaker 1: So and and he had a house down the road

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Speaker 1: that we could rehearse him and you and you lived

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Speaker 1: where you grew up where well, this was at Abingdon

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Speaker 1: School in near Oxford. And then when you form Radiohead

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Speaker 1: when you're six team basically yeah, we started sort of writing,

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Speaker 1: doing demos and messing about and it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was quite interesting straight away that it was quite

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Speaker 1: I think because Phil had quite a lot of experience.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, we used to go and do demos

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Speaker 1: in his sister's bedroom like right from the beginning, which

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Speaker 1: which was great. I mean, there's nothing better than like

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Speaker 1: just starting off by just trying to write demos from scratch,

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Speaker 1: even though you can't really play, even though you don't

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Speaker 1: know each other. That's where you start, you know. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of a nice way to figure out where you're about.

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Speaker 1: What do you think you do best? You lead a band,

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Speaker 1: you well, you you play guitar, you write music, you

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Speaker 1: produce music, you do it, and you sing. What do

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Speaker 1: you think your greatest strength is? If you had to

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Speaker 1: pick one. So, I don't know what I'm doing, right,

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Speaker 1: I like the fact that's I don't know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: I think we're not. Honestly, I can't go I'll go

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Speaker 1: through whole phrases where I've got a clue. I regularly

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Speaker 1: lose complete confidence in what I'm doing. Why do you

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Speaker 1: think that? Is? Partly because I think I don't quite

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Speaker 1: understand how it happens. When what happens when the appreciation

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Speaker 1: comes to you know, when you're when you're piecing something

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Speaker 1: together right, things will fall into place you make it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways, the nicest bit about the

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Speaker 1: creative thing, the nicest bit about recording and writing, is

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Speaker 1: this sort of weird limbo where you in between scratching

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Speaker 1: away scratching away nothing really happening, nothing really happening, and

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Speaker 1: then something wants to be built and starts to get built.

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Speaker 1: You just have to let it happen. And then it

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Speaker 1: gets to the end and you and you look at

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Speaker 1: it a few months later and go huh um, sort

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Speaker 1: of weird amnesia that goes with it. Something will happen,

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Speaker 1: one little sound goes off and you go, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: really nice. When I was at school, I didn't get

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Speaker 1: on with the school system at all. Um. I see it,

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Speaker 1: and my son the same, that sort of the mechanics

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Speaker 1: blend in or whatever. So I hid in the music

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Speaker 1: stroke art department and had a great time there and

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Speaker 1: discovered that actually that's what I wanted to do. Straight away,

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Speaker 1: the heads of both schools just saw what I was up.

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Speaker 1: This is the teacher that you often credit with your Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where was the teacher's name, Terry James, But but it

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Speaker 1: was him and my art teacher as well. Actually it

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Speaker 1: was like someone sort of takes you and of the

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Speaker 1: wing and say, well, you know what, you're actually quite

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Speaker 1: good at. Mentoring is a very critical thing in this business. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's not. It's enough at that age, it's enough

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Speaker 1: to just get a little push and then okay, what

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Speaker 1: does someone push you in a different direction? Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: that would be bad. How about do you go to

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Speaker 1: the other I think you need engineering? Yeah, my father

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Speaker 1: used to think. I used to get to advertising, which

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Speaker 1: is like really brilliant. Yeah, I'd really be good at that,

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Speaker 1: sending other people ship. Well, one thing you're good at

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Speaker 1: is avoiding. My original question, which was what do you

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Speaker 1: think your best at? And let's try to choose. If

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Speaker 1: you can't, if you may, you don't mind, confine yourself

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Speaker 1: to the list. I provide what do you think your

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Speaker 1: best at? Okay, this is multiple choice guitar band, kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, paternal figure, songwriting, producing, singing, I guess singing.

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Speaker 1: What was singing to you? How did your singing evolve

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Speaker 1: where you were right of where you are now where

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Speaker 1: most people say you have one of the most evocative

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Speaker 1: singing voices and all of music today. Well, basically went

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Speaker 1: to a few singing lessons, but that was basically just

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Speaker 1: so I could literally breathe right. You know, my favorite

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Speaker 1: singers like bu York. When I watched Buyork sing It's

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Speaker 1: in here, it's right here. They say in yoga and

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Speaker 1: stuff that whatever it is, can't remember that that spot

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Speaker 1: at the top of the forehead that you really Most

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Speaker 1: singers like Neil Young's the same. He sings into this

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Speaker 1: spot in his head and and what he's singing he's

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Speaker 1: already heard, you know what I mean, He's hearing it

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Speaker 1: come out. The same with with Buyork when she's singing,

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Speaker 1: she's singing what she's hearing, So there's no force. It's

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Speaker 1: a force in itself. It sent me a while to

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Speaker 1: get that, you know, even when we were on tour

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Speaker 1: with R. E. M. Back when we're doing the Benz

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Speaker 1: in nineties six or whatever it was. I was still

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Speaker 1: trying to figure it out then watching Michael and wanting

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Speaker 1: to sound like Michael Bike. I couldn't, you know, because

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Speaker 1: my voice is in a different tone completely and so on.

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Speaker 1: But what I did learn, what you know, watching him,

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Speaker 1: was again that thing of like watching someone who their

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Speaker 1: voices in sort of command of them rather than the

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Speaker 1: other way around. Yeah, but it's very natural, but it

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Speaker 1: takes a long time for that to become natural. I think,

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Speaker 1: like any singer, it takes a long time to find

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Speaker 1: that thing, and it keeps changing to me how I

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Speaker 1: sing now, or to me it feels different to a

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Speaker 1: few years ago. It just does it, just does each

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Speaker 1: of doything to do it. Well, yeah, there's probably some

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Speaker 1: physical elements to it, but but also just where you're at,

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Speaker 1: you know, because singing is nothing but like probably like

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Speaker 1: that saying sing is nothing but being in a moment.

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Speaker 1: That's it. Radioheads, Tom York, did you know that there

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Speaker 1: are over two fifty episodes in the Here's the Thing archives.

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Speaker 1: If you like these in depth conversations between Alec and

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Speaker 1: other actors, policymakers, and musicians, go to Here's the Thing

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Speaker 1: dot org and take a look around. After the break,

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Speaker 1: Alec and Tom York talk about fatherhood and how it

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Speaker 1: changes performing. I'm Frank Imperial in for Alec Baldwin on

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. Tom York seems a little uneasy about

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Speaker 1: his fame, and Alec wondered would he trade the trappings

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Speaker 1: of being a celebrity for a better world. If I

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Speaker 1: said to you, I snapped my fingers and you go

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Speaker 1: back to having a very normal life and you're not

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Speaker 1: you at all with everything that goes with it, and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world is elevated unless of the

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Speaker 1: world gets better. Things you care about? I think of

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Speaker 1: an issue you can I say to you Tom York,

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Speaker 1: Tommy York, Tom, or you go back and the world

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Speaker 1: gets better. Would you make that change to find better?

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Speaker 1: It's a tricky question, but you do. It's not an

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Speaker 1: either or, but you do care. But other things. Is

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Speaker 1: there an issue that you're embracing now? Is there something

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Speaker 1: you're involved with now? I well, in my slack asked fashion,

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Speaker 1: I was helping um Greenpeace do this thing which was

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Speaker 1: trying to stop drilling in the Arctic. But it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it's kind of working because the company seem to

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Speaker 1: be pulling out because they can't just pull up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. I don't think that's entirely down to us,

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Speaker 1: but I think it definitely helped that we're making their

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Speaker 1: life extremely difficult everywhere they turned. But challenge now is

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Speaker 1: to turn the Arctic into reserve so it can't happen

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Speaker 1: because what that was going to do is create this

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Speaker 1: gold rush, you know, all rush up there, which was

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Speaker 1: just going to be insane, and this at the same

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Speaker 1: time where the ice is melting. Basically, they only started

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Speaker 1: considering it was a possibility because the ice was melting.

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Speaker 1: They thought, okay, great, maybe got a better chance of drilling,

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Speaker 1: which is like, So I was kind of stuck in

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Speaker 1: that for a while because Yeah, to me, the irony

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Speaker 1: of it was too much. Um, I don't know where

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Speaker 1: I'll go next. I don't I find it very stressful.

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Speaker 1: I did get involved. A few years ago. We did

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Speaker 1: this thing in Britain, the first Climate Change Act, which

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Speaker 1: meant the government was is committed to reducing CEO two

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Speaker 1: emissions and now lots of countries have got it. It

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Speaker 1: was the first one and the government didn't want to

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Speaker 1: do it. Bled didn't want to do it, but we

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Speaker 1: found this interesting loophole and got thousands of people to

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Speaker 1: send letters in and said at the bottom of the

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Speaker 1: letter to the the MP, please can you pass this

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Speaker 1: on to Blair? Right, And apparently they were obliged to

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Speaker 1: pass on these letters. So Blair was literally getting thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of letters,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't normally happen. And he did pass the law

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Speaker 1: after much arguing and me refusing to meet him because

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Speaker 1: it was during the Iraq War and all sorts of Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: any normal human being would be. Anyway, I was very

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Speaker 1: glad I did it, and the people I was working

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Speaker 1: for at the time, I was it was Friends of

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Speaker 1: the Earth and it was really inspiring and I became

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Speaker 1: really good friends with the guy who's running Friends of

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Speaker 1: the Earth at time, Tony Juniper, who now works with

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Speaker 1: Prince Charles um And and it was a great period.

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Speaker 1: But I just it burned me out getting that close

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Speaker 1: to politics. The most fascinating figure that we work with

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Speaker 1: was the lobbyist that we had, our one lobbyist, so

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Speaker 1: like we went into this Port Colors House in Britain.

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Speaker 1: You probably have the equivalent here. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it's called, but Port Collor's House was built for the lobbyists.

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Speaker 1: It was built for special interests to go and sit

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Speaker 1: with a cup of coffee, round table about this size

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Speaker 1: and wait for MPs to go past, color them, sit

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Speaker 1: them down and lobby them in big the Capitol building. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I found it completely fascinating, you know, because it's there's

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Speaker 1: hundreds of these people walking around and I'm like, none

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Speaker 1: of them are lobbying for us. So when you may

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Speaker 1: possibly could argue that our one mate, Friends of the Earth,

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Speaker 1: that was like technically, you know, maybe speaking for the

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Speaker 1: people a little bit, but basically they were all special

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Speaker 1: interests and they had the ear of government, and I

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Speaker 1: just thought, hang on, hang on a minute, how did

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Speaker 1: this happen? Anyway? Where were we a minute ago? I

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Speaker 1: know where I want to go? Okay, go and let

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Speaker 1: go there there? Your children? Do your children know who

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Speaker 1: you are and what you do? Yep, they're used to it.

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Speaker 1: They're used to people coming up and saying hello. But

429
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: most of the time it's very friendly, and that's normal.

430
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 1: That's their normal. That's what they've grown up in. Twelve

431
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: and seven. So one seven the age that you decided

432
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to Brian May and by then he's he

433
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: he would already have made his guitar with that neck.

434
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: That was eleven. I think you said, So where are

435
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: they at musically? Um, my son is a great drummer,

436
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you want to do that

437
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: forever or not. He's like not bothered really, which is cool.

438
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: You know, he just and he comes and hangs out

439
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: with me when I'm working in my studio. We just

440
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: hang out. You know, we're friends. But I don't think

441
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, they're burning ambition to be musicians or anything. Really,

442
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: even though he's really good, he's for pleasure. I mean

443
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: at that age that's good, right His father had affected

444
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: your work? Um, yes, but not really that you have

445
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: the obvious things where you go out on the road

446
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: more if you didn't have children. Yep, absolutely, But that's

447
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing at all. You know, being

448
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 1: on the road is is it's a it's not a

449
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: great way necessary, it's it's you don't want to do

450
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: it all your life. You get a little bit on,

451
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: it gets a little unhealthy quite quickly mentally, if not physically.

452
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: As you've gotten older and you look around the musical landscape,

453
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: do you admire a lot of what's being done is

454
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: your in the in the mainstream, in the mainstream. There's

455
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: nothing in the mainstream. The mainstream is just avoid you know.

456
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: To me, I mean, what's weird about putting a record

457
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: out now? Really? And this is not like sour grapes

458
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: at all. It's just the fact the volume, literally the

459
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: sheer volume and stuff that gets put out. It's like

460
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: this huge fucking waterfall and you're just throwing your pebble

461
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: in and it carries on down the waterfall and that's

462
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: that right, Okay. Next, basically, you know, like in this country,

463
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: see the radio is tied up and people don't really

464
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: listen to already. In the same way, it's it's music

465
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: is going through a weird time because on the one hand,

466
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: as ever, there's always really exciting music being made. It's

467
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: never not being made. It's a question of whether you're

468
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: going to get to hear it or not. And I

469
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: mean I kind of I kind of knew the game

470
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: was up a few years ago when one of our

471
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: sort of team of people came in saying, Nokia wants

472
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: to offer you millions of pounds because they want content

473
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: for their phones. And this is like in two thousand,

474
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, early two and like, content, what you know, content?

475
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: What do you mean music? Yes? Okay? Content maybe that yes? Yeah,

476
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: just could be music stuff, Yeah, stuff could be snoring.

477
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: Have you got some stuff? You know? And you're like okay,

478
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: And I think really that my problem with it is

479
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: it's like it's now like something to fill up the

480
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: hard ware with, you know, the music itself has become

481
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: secondary to that, which is a weird thing to me.

482
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 1: Is like the most pleasurable experiences you ever have is

483
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: like when something's played to you don't know. We're like

484
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: going around to friend's house and they'll stick a tune

485
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: on you, like what the hell's there? You know, which

486
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: is what it's about. You know. That's what we're like

487
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: going into store when I was a kid, like and

488
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: the new Smith's records come out, and like and I'm

489
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: going up to the guy. I think that's like he's

490
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: really cool, like the indie store in town and just

491
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,719
Speaker 1: talking to him about music for twenty minutes, you know,

492
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: And you know how everywhere you go, music is everywhere.

493
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: It's everywhere, but it's not like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

494
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: It's content. Yeah, it's content. Is king that bullshit will change,

495
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: And when it does, then I think we'll have a resurgence.

496
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: The underbelly will come back over belly and then well

497
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: with its middle aged to belly. So you're forty three

498
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: years old, forty four years old. It's just our professional

499
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: courtesy that we shave a year off of of our already. Yeah,

500
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: all of them. Um, you're in the now and you're

501
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: in the here or what have you. And I'm not

502
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: saying that glibly, and you're know what I'm saying, but

503
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: you're not somebody who like Mick Jagger, for example, like

504
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if Mick Jagger is going to hit a day,

505
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 1: Like does it happen in a day? Like as Mick

506
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Jagger in bed one day and he picks up the phony,

507
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, I just can't do it anymore.

508
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 1: I can't get out of this bed. I can't do

509
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: another fucking show again. And it's over. Like do you

510
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: think of other things? I think all the time of

511
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: the next thing I'm gonna do. Yeah, as the next thing.

512
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: You don't have to tell us what it is, but

513
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: you know it would end if someone happens in my voice,

514
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. Certain things could make it physically stop,

515
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: and it will stop at some point, something will happen.

516
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: But for me, I'm yeah, I'm always hearing different things.

517
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: There's always half finished things, which you asked Pol Nigel.

518
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: He knows about that. There's always a mountain of half stuff.

519
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: I want to get into stuff. I've started stuff I

520
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: want to you know. But I also think it's good

521
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: to sort of take breaks because it's like anything you

522
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: start to go in small circles unless you you literally

523
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: you're spending unless you are just literally working too hard.

524
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: It's a regenerative thing. I find that I'm well. I mean,

525
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: my family, my friends know that I'm a nicer person.

526
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: If I'm working and I'm into what I'm doing, then

527
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: if I stop, there is a period where I'm fairly unbearable.

528
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: If I do stop, yeah, for too long, probably there's

529
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: a threshold. But like, if you want to shift right

530
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: with your work, if you want to shift, if you're writing,

531
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: if you're being creative at all, you kind of have

532
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: to stop to make that shift because if you just

533
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm constantly creating, I've got this mountain of brilliant ideas.

534
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: You're making the basic mistake that you're assuming all our

535
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: ideas are brilliant, where in fact I need to go

536
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: and do normal ship. I need to. I can't write

537
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: unless I have a period where restored. Well, no, it's

538
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: not restored, just just reset. I'm like just normal, normal, normal, normal, normal,

539
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: normal normal. You must have a lot of people in

540
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: the music world, young people who look up to you. Um,

541
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: one of the best buzzes really is that thing where

542
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: someone comes up who's new and they're really into you know,

543
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm really into what they're doing it's really fascinating and

544
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: it's really totally new to me. But yet the occasions

545
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: when off of you yeah, and you're like, how could

546
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: you how could you feel off me? I don't see

547
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: any of my stuff, but they see it, and I'm like, wow,

548
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: that's so cool, especially when it's like like it's in

549
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: hip hop and like, really you know people within hip

550
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: hop who are into Radiohead. I'm like, I find that

551
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: so fascinating because i mean, obviously I'm massively into hip hop,

552
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: and we've we use hip hop as a reference point

553
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: in the way we build tracks and stuff. But really, wow,

554
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: that's bonkers. Obviously that's one of the really good bits.

555
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: But it's not really mentorship. It's just people who you

556
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: admire good at their ship. You know, when it happens,

557
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: it happens. How does success make you feel? Well? Has

558
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: it made me feel? It's always been a little bit

559
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: far away from me, And the only time it sort

560
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: of makes sense is when we play in front of people,

561
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: and the rest of the time it's like, well, it's

562
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: it's just it's who I've been for so long. I

563
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: can't tell you because it's just that's what it is.

564
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: I've probably been doing it more than I haven't in

565
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: my life in terms of years, in terms of time.

566
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: So most of the time I don't really notice. Some

567
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: people come up and I go, well, that's nice, you know,

568
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: thanks very much. You know, it's not like I'm not grateful.

569
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm just I just don't notice. And then sometimes something

570
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: will whack you over the head and you go, blimey,

571
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: things like doing the first time we did Saturday in

572
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: my life, for example, and you go, really, people give

573
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: a ship because sometimes you can't. You don't know, you

574
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: don't know you've got on the inside, you can't see it.

575
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: And and and also we've spent so long running away

576
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: from it, and I don't feel like a run away

577
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: from it now because there's nowhere to run run, nowhere

578
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: to run. And also it's like, yeah, I'm really grateful

579
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: for I'm very incredibly lucky. It's a very good point.

580
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: There's nowhere to run and still do it. Yeah, I mean,

581
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: I just think I'm well jammy as we take it's

582
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: just really jammy, especially in the US, you know, like

583
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: people really give a ship and it's like, well that's amazing.

584
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Radio heads Tom York to hear the complete conversation go

585
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. It's hard to believe

586
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: that r M broke up a decade ago. When Alec

587
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: talked to Michael Stipe in two thousand and sixteen, he

588
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: was just five years into his post r M life,

589
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: with more time to pursue photography, teaching, and spending time

590
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: with his friends and especially his family. What being an

591
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: Army brand did to myself and my sisters was to

592
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: create probably a closer family dynamic than regular people have,

593
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: because we picked up and moved so much that we

594
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: were we were the foundation. It made you closer, It

595
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: made us much closer, and so a very very very

596
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,239
Speaker 1: lucky man in their regard. I'm one of the ones

597
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: who I like I landed, like I got the gold ring.

598
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: And when it comes to family, yeah, I mean you're

599
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: you have two sisters, two sisters, so the three of

600
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: your total and they around you see them? Are they

601
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: or they often like Alaska and Fiji were the whole

602
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: family lives in Athens, Georgia, and they're in Athens. I'm

603
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,719
Speaker 1: of Athens Club. I know Athens yea. And that it

604
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: wasn't Mike was Mike from Athens. Mike Mills actually from making.

605
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: We all met, all were from, we all met a

606
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: new g A of the places I read that you

607
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: lived when you were moving around in Europe and in

608
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: the South and so forth, was there one place you

609
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: stayed the longest, if you're a recollection of memory of

610
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: a place you were in, remember Germany? Yeah? I remember

611
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: Germany more than anywhere. Really. I think Germany and then well,

612
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: it's hard to say because I kind of see everything,

613
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: so but then I don't really remember everything. But Germany

614
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: was for me a time that I feel like I

615
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: remember almost every single day that we were there, which

616
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: was about just under two years. How old were you

617
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: seven and eight? How old were you when you'd say,

618
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm not a musician. I don't play music, but I

619
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: feel like I have, you know, Elvis lives inside me,

620
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, have I have this desire like everybody everyone,

621
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: which is they could sing and get up there and

622
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: perform and have that effect on people. And you'd hear

623
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: MacArthur Park, you know, Richard Harris would sing McArthur and

624
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: and I go, god, I remember listening to that song

625
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: on a transistor radio and I go back and look

626
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: up the date, and I go, oh, my god. I

627
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: was nine. It's so much younger. It's in you so

628
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: much younger. Can you can you remember when how old

629
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: you were when you let that in? And this starts?

630
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: What a great song to reference. I mean, that's one

631
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: of those really insanely bizarre pop songs that you know,

632
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: here's a guy that doesn't sing, he's he's a drunk

633
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: most of his life. He's a he's brilliant, and for

634
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: some crazy, for some reason, the songwriter tags him to

635
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: sing this insanely beautiful song about nothing about a cake

636
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: with green ice that's melting in the rank. It's really

637
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: it's you know when win in? Yeah. I love that

638
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: song and I love the song, and the guy who

639
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: wrote it was one of one of our great American songwriters,

640
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: Jimmy Webb. I did. I did an interview with him

641
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: once for a book that he wrote, and he called

642
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: me on the phone to talk about songwriting, and we

643
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: had an hour to talk and I couldn't get a

644
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: word in edge twice he talked the entire time. I

645
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,959
Speaker 1: couldn't wait for the book to come out to see

646
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: what I had said because I don't remember having said anything.

647
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty good. But but you remember like

648
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: an age was it was your time in your life

649
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: when you remember when music came in, music comes in,

650
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: It was always there. My kind of ground zero point

651
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: was at the age of fifteen when Patti Smith releases

652
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: and I bought it the day it came out. But

653
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: prior to that, the songs that really resonated with me

654
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: on radio or the Banana Splits, the Archies, you know,

655
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: it was really kind of crappy, beautiful pop music, The Monkeys,

656
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: The Monkeys, I didn't have a brother or sister who

657
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: turned me on to the Who and Alice Cooper and

658
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones are the Beatles where my bandmates did

659
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: have that. I listened to what kids listened to and

660
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: what the cereal boxes were telling you was music. But

661
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: following that, it was really bending in the Jets by

662
00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: Elton John and the song um Hey Kids, book You Too,

663
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: Jump Up and Down and Rock, which I kind of

664
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 1: rewrote as a song drive on Automatic for the people.

665
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: It opens It opens that record and um I rewrote

666
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: that song. I rewrote a bunch of songs from the

667
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: seventies and songs that I remember, Like Everybody Hurts was

668
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: my take on love Hurts, kind of a direct left there,

669
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: but but it turned into a very different song. And

670
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: do you learn to play an instrument? I played accordion

671
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: when I was that's it well. I wanted to play Oregon,

672
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: but we couldn't afford the next instrument up, so I

673
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: wound up with an accordion and I played quite well.

674
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: You weren't accomplished accordions. You could have been on a

675
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: Sullivan now when No. But but as many people they're

676
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: entry into music is whether it's you know, they pick

677
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: up a guitar, and there's obviously a discipline, a curiosity.

678
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm always mesmerized by this by in and women who

679
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: they pick up a guitar when they're nine and ten

680
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: years or they just start to explore that we're beyond that.

681
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: In a more traditional way, someone's parents are saying, sit

682
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: down at that piano and you're gonna do this lesson

683
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: for a year and grind them down until they break

684
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: through and they can really play the piano. Then they're

685
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: grateful that they have this skill that attracts all these people.

686
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: Was there anything like that for you? There was no

687
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: formal musical training none, so thus you knew is it

688
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: safe to us him? Did you always know you wanted

689
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: to be a singer. No, the whole idea of punk

690
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: rock was that anybody could do this. That it was.

691
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't this kind of holy handed down from on

692
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: high talent or skill. And I was and remained quite literal.

693
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: And so when they said anybody can do this, I said, Okay,

694
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: I'll do it. And I guess I was too lazy

695
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: to learn. And so you believe that everybody, anybody can

696
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: do it? Absolutely not right. When did you realize you

697
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: could sing? Well, honestly, about ten years ago. I realized

698
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: that my voice was that specific. I never through most

699
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: of our career. I didn't understand why people liked my

700
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: voice or thought that my voice was that different. And

701
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: it's a very different voice. It's a very recognizable voice.

702
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: So when you were singing in the in the beginning

703
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: of your career, it was awful. We were We were terrible.

704
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean I sang Rocketbilly. You mentioned Elvis Presley earlier.

705
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: I was singing in this kind of hiccup. Elvis Presley's

706
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: style probably inspired by The Cramps. I loved Luxe Interior

707
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: and I loved the Cramps, and I saw them perform

708
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: on I think one of the first shows they ever

709
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: did outside of New York City and um and I

710
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: thought he was just amazing and they were incredible. So

711
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: I kind of picked up that rocketbilly thing. But I

712
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: don't think I really developed a voice until my Well,

713
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: people that love murmur would argue with that, but anyway,

714
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: I didn't feel confident with my voice until probably the

715
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: third or fourth album, which was six years in. When

716
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: you were at you g A with the other three,

717
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: What do you think that they saw on you that

718
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: they picked you for that job? Well, it sounds arrogant

719
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: to say it, but charisma. It was that that that

720
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: genes a quad that we all know when someone walks

721
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: into a room or and when I walk into a room,

722
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't have that, but when I'm on stage performing

723
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: with that band behind me, it was. It just was

724
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: the chemistry between all of it. Really, when you open

725
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: your mouth and saying those songs with those guys and

726
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: something happened, you believe that. How did you find each other? Clubs?

727
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: Record store? You saw Mills and a record store and

728
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: Peter buck Rabbit and he looked really cool, and a

729
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: lot of people back then didn't look really cool, but

730
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: he looked really cool, and he would turn me onder

731
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: different records that that would come into the store, and

732
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: and like Suicide, the first Suicide album. We hit it

733
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: off and then I had to convince him to start

734
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: a band with me. What was it about horses that

735
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: appealed to you? I can't say, I mean outside of

736
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: you know, I had really good taste. As it turns out.

737
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the greatest records I ever made.

738
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: And I did buy it and listen to it on

739
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: the day that it was released, which is kind of crazy.

740
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: But you've spoken about the cover art appealed to you too, Yeah,

741
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's an incredible image. Uh. But she represented

742
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: something other and something to me alien, And part of

743
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: that was this openness, is fluidity about sexuality that I

744
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: think certainly resonated with me and with millions of other

745
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: people who are questioning their sexuality or or or emerging

746
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: into something that they weren't familiar with or something that

747
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: wasn't at the time quite accepted or acceptable. We're doing

748
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: her on this show and a kind of a live audience.

749
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: She's a great conversation. Yeah, but you related to that.

750
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: It's really really the third song I think it was

751
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: Birdland is the song that touched me in a way

752
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: that I don't think anything i'd ever touched me before.

753
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: And I stayed up all night listening to it. I

754
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: went to school next day and I said, that's that's

755
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. And then it took me two

756
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: years to find people that I could play with. That

757
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: didn't work out very well, and I wound up moving

758
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,959
Speaker 1: to Athens following my father's retirement and started the band.

759
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: And when you leave Athe, I mean there's a kind

760
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: of gestation there and athen and performing in clubs in

761
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: all over Georgia, are you like, well, what kind of

762
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 1: do what's the what's the circuit you get into there

763
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: when you're at that level. Well, it was early days,

764
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: so there wasn't really a circuit. I mean one was

765
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: kind of cabbled together by bands like RM and Pylon

766
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: also from Athens, and Black Flag, Sonic Youth. All these

767
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: bands were playing like these pizza parlors and gay discoss

768
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: and kind of anywhere that would let a band set

769
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 1: up in a corner. Music is very different than that

770
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: it is now, and the way that music is consumed

771
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: and the way that it's marketed and so forth and

772
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: most bands, I mean yours could be different. I don't know.

773
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: I want to find that out. Most bands enter into

774
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: a business agreement in order to take them to the

775
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: next plateau that's disadvantageous for them. Did that happen to you? No, Um,

776
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: when you started signing with people, did you maintain all

777
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: the rights tool you're publishing? Yeah, you did, and we

778
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: own our masters. Peter and Mike particularly were encyclopedic about

779
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: Sick and they had read every biography and knew every

780
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: in and out of every story of a band that

781
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: got so far and then it fell apart because of

782
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: this or this reason, and they were determined to prevent

783
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: that from happening to us. Who did you sign with?

784
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: Who was your first label you signed with? The first

785
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: label was I R S Records, Miles Copeland, and he

786
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: was very generous looking back. I mean we didn't like

787
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: each other very much at the time, but he allowed us. Well,

788
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: he was a business guy, and I wasn't that interested

789
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: in the business part of what was going on. I

790
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: just wanted to do what we did, and I wanted

791
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: to do it our way. And who in the band

792
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: was taking care of business? Mike, No, we had a

793
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: manager and a lawyer who were helping us, and so

794
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: nobody in the band. You had to rely on people

795
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: you trusted to take care of it. And it all

796
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: worked out well. You were happy. We were really lucky

797
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: in that regard, and you know, we we kept our

798
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: eye on it and I didn't allow those things that

799
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: break up bands to break us up. So we had

800
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: a really long, great career and chose the time to disband,

801
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: and I think we even did it was the time

802
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: most broke up with We even did that, right, M Yeah,

803
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean over and over. Sure, when you had conflicts

804
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: with people you make music with, what is the conflict?

805
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: But typically, I mean I was very young and very shy,

806
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: and so I would just shut down. I would go

807
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 1: into a kind of a quiet you know, I would

808
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: I would be silent for three days, which nobody wanted

809
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: because it made it, It made everything impossible. Those guys

810
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: were more loud and often got their way, but it

811
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: but often it kind of pulled me out of you know,

812
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: we're in a in a in a band dynamic. Everyone's

813
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: got an idea, in an opinion. And what happened, what

814
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: happens when it all comes together is this this beautiful

815
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: compromise where one person over kind of overseas one part,

816
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: another overseas another part. Somehow it all works. So that

817
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: chemistry served us pretty well for most of her career.

818
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: But but it was, you know, it was at times

819
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: very very difficult, and I'm proud of the times that

820
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: we failed. We failed horribly, and but we all know,

821
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't blame the other guy. We didn't

822
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: blame the industry, we didn't blame radio. We just agreed

823
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: that we had not made the best record, or the

824
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: best song or the best recording. Some of my favorite

825
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: recordings of our work is not what wound up on records,

826
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: but what wound up in live performances. Su Jazz. The

827
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: song Lotus is a good example of a song that

828
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: we recorded Lotuses. Lotus is the name of the song,

829
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: and it's a good song, but it's way too long

830
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: on the record. It's too slow, which is my fault,

831
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: and we recorded it and mixed it at a time

832
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: when we weren't really talking to each other, so it

833
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: was very difficult to arrive at a place that made sense. Live,

834
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: the song is faster, and we're ajournalised because we're performing

835
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: it in front of people or whatever, and it got

836
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: a lot better. It got a real lot better. So

837
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: for my money, you know, the recording of that song

838
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 1: is kind of dis interesting document of a moment in time,

839
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: but but the real song emerged in live performance. Is

840
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: there a producer or like who decides, especially in the

841
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: early days before you become big stars, Like who's sitting there,

842
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: sitting there going, well, you're gonna come in here and

843
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: you will drop that note down a little bit. Who's

844
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: who's the decider? We always had finals, We always had

845
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: final cut on everything. So all of our records were

846
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: produced with a producer, but we were co producing, so

847
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: the band had final saying final cut. Was there one

848
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: of you who had a better ear than the other

849
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: in terms of how this music should be mixed? Do

850
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: somebody have a gift for that? No? Right, everybody had

851
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: an opinion, sadly. Did you like performing live? I loved it.

852
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 1: What's the first time you performed live? Because Murmur becomes

853
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: the album of the year from Rolling Stone, you beat

854
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: out Thriller. How did you feel about that? I wanted

855
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: to crawl into a hole one during myself. You didn't

856
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: want to be famous? No, I wanted to be famous.

857
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: But but my idea you did want to be famous.

858
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: My idea of fame was this kind of teen age

859
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: fantasy version of it. It didn't require all the work

860
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: and all the scrutiny and all the kind of like

861
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: all the stuff, Like being able to look you in

862
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: the eye and sit here and talk about myself is

863
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: something that it took decades for me to be able

864
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: to do, and that that's not my nature. Why do

865
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: you think it's not your nature? Well, I mean you

866
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: are a shy person. Yeah, yeah, I still am, but

867
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: I've I've managed over the course of fifty six years

868
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: to kind of emerge. I always say to people, I'm

869
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: a person of adulthood. But I say to people I

870
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: think I am a shy person, and they look at

871
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: me to go, you're kidding and out of your mind.

872
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: Just overcame. It's so extraordinarily. The thing you figure out

873
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: when you're around a lot of creative people is is

874
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: that if you're a creator, you have to create. It's

875
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: not a choice. It's not something that you do because

876
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: you want to be famous. It's something that or because

877
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: you want to be recognized for something, for this or

878
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: that you create because you have to and maybe that's

879
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: what separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes

880
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: to the culture that now allows people to be famous

881
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: just for the fact being famous, or that you're you're

882
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: acknowledged and recognized for something other than a talent or

883
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: a thing that you can offer that's unique or interesting.

884
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: One time I did a concert style version of South

885
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: Pacific and it was Reba McIntyre and Brian Stokes Mitchell

886
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: are the leads, and we're there and Paul Jim and

887
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: Yanni's there conducting this orchestra. It was. It was it

888
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: was like a ninety piece orchestra and like, Okay, we're ready,

889
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna be here and we're gonna sing and they

890
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: call up someone so we're gonna sing bally High and

891
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: also this orchestrauld be like Bannan. The music would play

892
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: behind I'm sitting there in a chair, the orchestras five

893
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: behind me, and I get this chill that just shoots

894
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: right up my skull, like, oh my god, this is music.

895
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: You know. What was the first time you stepped out

896
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: in front of a stadium and crab What was your

897
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: first big first moment, What was your first Paul Jim

898
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: and Yanni Momentum. We one of the one of the

899
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: things that Miles Copeland, who had I R. S Records,

900
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: did was he put us on a bill at Schase

901
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: Stadium with Joan Jett and the Black Hearts Hope for

902
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: the Police. So we played to sixty people. We had.

903
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: We played five songs. I said I would do it

904
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: if I could wear a wedding dress. Someone said, I

905
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: dare you for a hundred dollars, which at the time

906
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: was a very very large amount of money to me,

907
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: I dare you to wear a wedding dress. She's taking

908
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: my I said, I'm gonna do it. So I went

909
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: looking for a wedding I couldn't find one. I found

910
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: a tuxedo, so I wore a tuxedo instead of really

911
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: ratty tuxedo. Did you tell the guys in the band

912
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: you would plan on wearing a wedding and they were

913
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: cool with it. They were fine, They didn't care, they

914
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: didn't give a fuck. Um. They wanted you to be you.

915
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: But I remember it because it was raining and we

916
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: had five songs, and it was this giant place, and

917
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: to the band it meant everything because of the Beatles

918
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: had had famously performed there. To me, it was just

919
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: as big outdoor as your wedding day. It was my

920
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: wedding day right as it turns out, and my dress.

921
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: You were getting married to sixty people. My dress wasn't starched.

922
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: How did it feel? You know? What's interesting is that

923
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: I don't really remember the show so much. I remember

924
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: the backstage what was happening. Andy Warhol was there. That

925
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: was thrilling for me. Matt Dylan was there, and this

926
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: was after not the outsider was what was the Rumblefish

927
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: kid done? Rumblefish? And and I was a huge fan,

928
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: and he was kind of like hanging out in between

929
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: these two trailers. One was ours, the other was Joan Jutts,

930
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, Joan jutt knows Matt Dilon,

931
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 1: How exciting is that? And we were kind of peeking

932
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: through the window. And then there was a knock at

933
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: the door and it was Matt Dillon and he was

934
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: a big r M fan. So we sat with us

935
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: and we talked for a long time and I was

936
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: kind of touched by the very touched by the r

937
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: M s. Michael Stipe. If you're enjoying this conversation, be

938
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: sure to follow here's the thing. On the I Heart

939
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: radio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When

940
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: we come back, Michael Stipe talks about how he became

941
00:50:47,640 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: politically aware. I'm Frank Imperial and this is here's the thing.

942
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: There's a deep passion in R. E. M's music, and

943
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: Alec marveled at how it never crosses over to sentimentality.

944
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: I could cry right now, thank you for saying that.

945
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm a very sentimental person, and I despise sentimentality. I

946
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: despise nostalgia. Do you agree that that's a hallmark of

947
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: the music you guys make. I'm very flattered that you

948
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: say that we go to that line and we never

949
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: cross it. In my in my most closer than anybody

950
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: I know, well, thank you. In my most critical moments,

951
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: I would say, well, no, we crossed it many times,

952
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: and and not so gracefully. But I appreciate that. That's

953
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: a huge compliment. As a writer, that's a huge compliment,

954
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: and as a singer, because you can the way the

955
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: way something is performed, the way you put it down

956
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: on tape really can make or break it. I'm trying

957
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: to think of an example of someone who's very, very

958
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: brilliant with that. I think Sia is brilliant with the

959
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: way she uses her voice. There are other singers throughout

960
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: our lives, and we don't have to name names who

961
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: have amazing voices but have no idea how to use them,

962
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: or they overuse them or their producers. They do that

963
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: crack at the high note every single time, and by

964
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: the end of the song you're exhausted. And the thing

965
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: they do, there's a thing regardless of after murmur and

966
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: after you start to take off and really make it.

967
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm always curious about for highly

968
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: successful musicians of whatever type of music is is music

969
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: in your life, other people's music, And then the obligation

970
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: and or or even just the ambition to now drive

971
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 1: your music to the next level, does it push other

972
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: music out? Or if you always listened to music, And

973
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: that's a really good question, and I'm going to answer

974
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: it honestly. There's a point where I stopped being able

975
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: to listen to other music. And it wasn't because I

976
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: was afraid I was going to accidentally imitate or steal

977
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: something from someone. Music became un interesting to me. Now

978
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: that I don't make music anymore, I'm able to listen

979
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: to music. I'm able to read novels uh and books.

980
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: I'm able to absorb myself into TV shows and films

981
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: that I just didn't have time for. I mean, I

982
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: realized when Rim disbanded five years ago. It took me

983
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: about six months to recognize how much of a creative

984
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of fog I had been in with that band.

985
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm such a perfectionist, I'm such a control freak. I

986
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: oversaw every aspect of the band, and and along with

987
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: Peter and Mike and Bill when he was there, it

988
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: completely consumed my every waking thought the entire time that

989
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: that band was going, and so other things fell fell away,

990
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 1: and I think I became a little bit of a

991
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: less interesting person for now working having a life that

992
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: allowed me to not write a song about being on

993
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: the road or being in a band, or write songs

994
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: about the industry of music, which is the most pathetically

995
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: boring thing you could possibly you know, focus on what

996
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: people do. One of my favorite songs that we ever

997
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: wrote is called Supernatural, Super Serious, and it's this insanely

998
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: beautiful narrative, really beautiful narrative about innocence and teenage ideas

999
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: and how those are flattened or dismissed or disregarded as

1000
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: an adult, and then you come back. It comes back

1001
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: at some point and you realize you're still that person.

1002
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: So that's all in this lyric for me, I probably

1003
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: need to write a little short story to go along

1004
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: with it for anybody that listens to the song, because

1005
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I successfully manage to get all

1006
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: that into the lyric. Have you ever thought about writing

1007
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: a book like that where you explicate all the lyrics

1008
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: of your songs? Or I'm actually doing it, I'm not

1009
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: doing a very good job of it about well, I'm,

1010
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: as you may have figured out in this conversation, I

1011
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: think in a very circuitous and tangential way, and so

1012
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: I'll always come back to my point. But I lose

1013
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: most people in the way. I have great stories, and

1014
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible storyteller. Now, the you are very well

1015
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: known and legendary, if you will, for your passions about causes.

1016
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: When does that begin for you in your career when

1017
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: you say to yourself, I can't keep my mash and

1018
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 1: I want to start talking about this. Well, it was

1019
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: the Reagan era and the kind tree was falling apart

1020
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: in a way that that was quite evident. And we

1021
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 1: were then as as a band traveling overseas representing America

1022
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: and getting shipped thrown at us for the cruise missiles

1023
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: that were being sent over and put into position in

1024
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: parts of Europe. People were very, very unhappy about that.

1025
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: We became politicized quite quickly as a band um and

1026
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: I'm a child of the seventies, you know, we came

1027
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: out of a place where everything that the sixties was

1028
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: and this is I think perfectly encapsulated. Again. We'll talk

1029
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: about Patti Smith for a moment, but when she wrote

1030
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: Just Kids, that book to me is like The Big Chill,

1031
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: but for sentimental douche bags, for people that lived through it,

1032
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: and we're at one point told your sellout and you

1033
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: have to get a job, and all of your dreams

1034
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 1: and aspirations, everything that you thought you could do with

1035
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: this thing is flatlined. Go get a job. Just Kids

1036
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: provided those people for the first time, I think, a

1037
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: way of looking at themselves as children, as teenagers, as

1038
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 1: young people again and saying that innocence was quite beautiful,

1039
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: and in fact we were right. Things didn't go our way,

1040
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: but we had a place the people that dropped out

1041
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: in the sixties and then had to get jobs. Became

1042
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 1: the people that were teaching me in sixth, seventh, eighth,

1043
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: and ninth grade, and so in the early seventies in America,

1044
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: in public school, there was a very clear understanding that

1045
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: it was our job to talk about and fix what

1046
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: became dramatic climate change issues, energy problems, the Lynchin, what's

1047
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: going on everything. But I had an entire year long

1048
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: course called environmental science taught by miss Enoch. There was

1049
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: a textbook and it was taught in public schools in Texas. Anyway,

1050
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: as a twelve thirteen year old, I knew about all

1051
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: this energy stuff and and so then as an adult,

1052
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, you become politicized quite quickly when you travel

1053
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: outside the country. And that's what happened to us. I

1054
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: was talking to other people who work in your business,

1055
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 1: which and like my business, which is a very youth

1056
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: centered business in terms of the performing and the whole

1057
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: of the arc of it, and all of us as

1058
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: we get older in this business, it changes. Was there

1059
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: a moment that you realize it started to change for you?

1060
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: Many times as an as an older person in a

1061
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, rock and roll band, for our pop band. Yeah,

1062
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: there's a point where I said, it's not a good

1063
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: look and we I we have to either grow with

1064
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: it and be who we are right now or stop.

1065
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: And I think we did a pretty good job of

1066
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: being people in their early forties, mid forties, late forties,

1067
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: early fifties doing this, not the perpetual teenager thing that

1068
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people kind of go down that route

1069
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: and the camels get a little fuzzier and pulled back

1070
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: a little more. I just didn't particularly see myself in

1071
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: that role. I'm now exploring all these other mediums that

1072
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled to be working on other than music.

1073
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: And I'm also although I'm not prepared and already to

1074
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: be a pop star again a pop singer, I'm dabbling

1075
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: in music and it feels yeah, yeah, I mean I

1076
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: started actually about a year and a half ago. A

1077
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: friend called me, Casey Spooner from the band Fisher Spooner

1078
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: working on an album for a couple of years and

1079
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: got really stuck and said I need help with a song.

1080
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: Can you help me? And I went in and it

1081
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: was very clear to me what needed to be done,

1082
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: and I told him, but there was another piece of

1083
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: music playing while we were talking, and I said, can

1084
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: I comment on that one as well? And long story short,

1085
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: I wound up producing the album and co writing every

1086
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: song on it. And so as a producer and writer,

1087
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: I've kind of come back into music through Fisher Spooner.

1088
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: You've been making films as well a film production. I

1089
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: stopped making film. You just stopped. I stopped filming because

1090
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: I wanted, I needed to just step away from everything.

1091
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: And so when when when I I am disbanded five

1092
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: years ago, I pretty much shuddered both of my production companies,

1093
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: thrilled that we had done what we did in the um.

1094
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: It was twenty seven years, I guess of I made

1095
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: about that many feature films, most of them very independent,

1096
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: the most famous one being being John Markovic with Spike Jones.

1097
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: But I was really ready to just step away from

1098
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: everything and explore other mediums that I not wanted to

1099
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: be Photography needed to really look into, and photography the

1100
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: primary one now. Photography was my first love, photography before music,

1101
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: and so a lot of the work that I'm doing

1102
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: now it's not I don't I think of myself as

1103
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: an artist who works in all these different mediums, and

1104
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: music is one of them, and obviously the most the

1105
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: one I'm best known for. But photography has come back around.

1106
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing a book. I'm working on a book now.

1107
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: Jonathan Burger brought me to n y U to teach

1108
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: art for the False semester and that was thrilling. And

1109
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: out of that is coming a book of my work

1110
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: that I'm working with him on. So that's really exciting. Um,

1111
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: you are such uh unique and such a kind of

1112
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: particular person and you know that. Thank you and you

1113
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: and you're performing well. I mean you're performing. You're singing,

1114
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: and your style and your appearance and your kind of

1115
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: demeanor and everything you're You're very was acting ever in

1116
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: the cards for you? Did you ever think about going

1117
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: off and making films and acting? I was offered the

1118
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: role of the psychopathic killer in the film seven. They

1119
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: wanted someone very unexpected, and unfortunately my band was going

1120
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: on tour the same month that they started filming, so

1121
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't And it required nothing I had to do

1122
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: is run down some hallways and look scary. There was

1123
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: no dialogue. I'm so glad you didn't do that. I

1124
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: would have loved doing it. I I didn't like the

1125
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: way that movie ended. They changed something at the end

1126
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: that meant that Brad Pets rather than Morgan Freeman's character

1127
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: killed Kevin Spacey in the end, which shouldn't have happened.

1128
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: It didn't make sense. But but yeah, I mean, I no,

1129
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't. I always felt like just because something is

1130
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: available to you through fame, or through connections or through proximity,

1131
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you should say yes to it,

1132
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: And so I've been very careful with I mean, the

1133
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: other mediums that I'm working in now are things that

1134
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: sometimes terrify me. I'm doing collage work. I'm I despise collage.

1135
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: I'm working with I'm working with hand handwriting in my

1136
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: own line, and I'm a terrible drawer. But I'm I'm

1137
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: working with the things that I most fear about myself,

1138
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm not showing them to the public

1139
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: unless I really think that I've got something. But this

1140
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: book that I'm working on, I'm kind of working through

1141
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: a lot of these things with the book. So it's

1142
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: it's been thrilling. I'm not saying that you should play

1143
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: Boo Radley, but you should play a Boo Radley type

1144
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: of character where no matter how unique or odd he

1145
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: may strike people in the hair and make up the

1146
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: whole appearance. Deep down inside, he's this beautiful soul. I

1147
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: would like you to stick to that. The idiot mantel

1148
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: I'm good at. That's what my dog thinks. I'm the

1149
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: idiot mantell. The freaky angel. I like to the weird

1150
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: angel when I psycho killer, when I meet um directors

1151
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: like Todd Haynes and Spike Jones, or I meet actors

1152
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: like yourself. For John Malkovic, I realized that these are

1153
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: people that wake up with a need and a desire

1154
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: to do that thing, and I have so much respect

1155
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: for it that for me to even try. You know,

1156
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: I don't play trombone either. Why would I Why would

1157
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: I even want to ever try to play trombone? But

1158
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: I I leave that to those that have that need,

1159
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: that wake up with that desire. My desires are in

1160
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: the same ballpark, but slightly different. And so that's where

1161
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: I've tried to spend my short time on this earth,

1162
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 1: hopefully two or at least, I'll take really focusing on

1163
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: the things that I feel like I might be able

1164
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: to that will challenge me, that will challenge hopefully whatever

1165
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: audience I'm able to attain, and we'll keep me on

1166
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: my toes, keep me curious. Thanks to Tom York and

1167
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: Michael Stipe and this show's regular host, Alec Baldwin. Here's

1168
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: the Thing is produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie Donahue and

1169
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: Zach McNeice. I'm the show's engineer, Frank Imperial. Thanks for listening.