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Speaker 1: Warning.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for Thunderbolts number one from nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety seven. It's a thirty year.

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Speaker 3: Old comic and if you listen to our book Club,

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Speaker 3: it's already been spoiled for you. But you're already If

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Speaker 3: you haven't, go listen to that and then come back

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Speaker 3: and listen to this.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and it is Jason Gncepcion and our Brisday Night

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Speaker 2: and welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where

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Speaker 2: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and

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Speaker 2: pop culture. Coming to you from I Art Podcast, where

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Speaker 2: we're bringing you three huge episodes a week every Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: Wednesday and Thursday plus Goose.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode, it's all about those bad boys known

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Speaker 3: as the Thunderbolts. We're going to be talking about who's

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Speaker 3: who of the Thunderbolts, who's in the Thunderbolts, who's in

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Speaker 3: the MC version, and where were the comic book counterparts

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Speaker 3: first introduced in the wild world of the twisty team

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Speaker 3: known as the Thunderbolts. And then Jason has a banging

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Speaker 3: omnibus about the state of Marvel in nineteen ninety seven

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Speaker 3: and how the original Busiak and Bagley comic book was

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Speaker 3: received at the time, but.

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Speaker 1: First year Locke, Okay, let's let's chop it up. Thunderbolts

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Speaker 1: number one. This was such a time capsule as wild.

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Speaker 2: I remember reading this. I remember not planning to read it,

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Speaker 2: but then the buzz, the buzz, the tolk of the tests, like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll read it. I had been you know, this was

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Speaker 2: the nineties, had introduced a lot of new characters, and

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Speaker 2: some of them I'll talk more about the nineties in

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Speaker 2: the omnibus. Some of them hit, some of them did not.

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Speaker 2: Some of them came in with like, you know, like Speedball,

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Speaker 2: and others came in with like Major Maine your promo,

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Speaker 2: and I think by this time, like a lot of

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Speaker 2: comic bands of the era. My my sense was like

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Speaker 2: more new guys, Like who are these new guys? I know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but turned out to be one of

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Speaker 2: the most influential and you know, truly surprising issues of

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Speaker 2: all time. Let's do a quick off the dome recap

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Speaker 2: of Thunderbolts number one. So I love the six one

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Speaker 2: six is in tatters. The Avengers are off the board,

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Speaker 2: They're fantastic four.

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Speaker 3: They are dead.

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Speaker 1: They are dead.

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Speaker 2: They're Fantastic Four Dead Air quotes. You know, the mansion

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Speaker 2: is in fucking ruins, Fantastic four going on.

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Speaker 1: Bad stuff going on the you know, the X.

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Speaker 2: Men are there, but they've got their own problems going on,

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Speaker 2: and they've never been like the people to uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: take on the mantle.

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Speaker 1: And New York itself is like a wreckage.

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Speaker 3: It's going back to the little wreckage.

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Speaker 1: It's going very very badly.

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Speaker 2: The Statue of Statue of Liberties fucked up, like the

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Speaker 2: entire cities like in fucking ruins. Next thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: various villain groups start going well, Avengers not here, Fantastic

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Speaker 2: Before not here.

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Speaker 1: Guess what We're gonna.

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Speaker 2: Go crazy like the rat Pack. The rat Pack begin

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Speaker 2: looting New York City. The rat Pack are like if

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Speaker 2: Seal Team six decided, you know, fuck this, let's do

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Speaker 2: bank heists probably, you know. And so they're out there

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Speaker 2: just you know, robbing and stealing and going into vaults

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Speaker 2: and just taking stuff hand over fist.

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Speaker 1: Who can stop them?

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Speaker 2: Nobody because the Tiroes are gone and the cops are overmatched.

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Speaker 1: But then.

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Speaker 2: A group of colorful heroes shows up and they are

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Speaker 2: and they strike like light, and they call themselves, the Thunderbolts,

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Speaker 2: and they deal with the rat Pack in a very crew.

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Speaker 3: As well, and the Record Crew and.

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Speaker 1: They deal with a bunch of these and resurgery.

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Speaker 3: You see them helping to fix the Statue of Liberty.

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Speaker 3: So they gotta be good guys.

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Speaker 1: They got they don't have a lot of money there.

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Speaker 2: They're headquarters is like above a pizzeria. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then also I like the way that one of

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Speaker 3: my favorite things is like then like Black Widow, the

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Speaker 3: New Warriors, Spider Man, they're all like, yeah, the Thunderbolts

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Speaker 3: they're doing They just like putting like a tiny bit

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Speaker 3: of effort here, guys, Like I know things are bad,

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Speaker 3: but you guys are still around, Like Spider Man, you

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Speaker 3: always New York's number one hero, Like why are you

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Speaker 3: just giving these guys your thumbs up? Yes, So it

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Speaker 3: was a very interesting situation because they were, as you said,

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Speaker 3: all new heroes with when you look back on it,

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Speaker 3: like very bad costume design. So really I think if

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Speaker 3: there was I mean.

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Speaker 2: Very ninety very nineties costume design, but they don't feel

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Speaker 2: they don't have that feeling like oh that's gonna hit

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Speaker 2: you know, Like sometimes you see like a new costume design,

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Speaker 2: and you think, like, wow, that's incredible.

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Speaker 3: So it probably should have hinted to us as readers

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Speaker 3: that maybe they weren't gonna be heroes for the longest time.

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Speaker 3: But all the promo, which you'll get into more leading

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Speaker 3: up to it, like didn't let us see them.

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Speaker 1: It was all it was all in shadows.

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Speaker 3: So this was the first one, the Thunderbolts, and it

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Speaker 3: looks like we got a new team. Are you interested

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Speaker 3: in them as a reader? I don't know. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 3: not until the final.

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Speaker 1: Page, final pitch.

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Speaker 2: Now it's all the setup is amazing, Like here's Spider

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Speaker 2: Man after the Thunderbolts take out the recond Crew. Quote,

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Speaker 2: Believe me, the Wrecking Crew are no pushovers, and I've

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Speaker 2: got reason to know after the way the Thunderbolts handle them,

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Speaker 2: they're okay in my book, same to your point. The

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Speaker 2: New Warriors, including Speedball, were.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, Thunderbolts are so great.

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Speaker 2: And then we go to the Thunderbolts. They're in there

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Speaker 2: Ramshackle headquarters above the Pizzer reel. Watching all of this

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Speaker 2: on TV, watching Spider Man and the New Warriors sing

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Speaker 2: their praises, watching you know, Natasha, the Black Widows say.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great that they're here.

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Speaker 2: And their leader, the Thunderbolts leader Citizen five, walks in.

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Speaker 2: He takes off his Citizen five helmet and we see

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Speaker 2: that his head is like singed. He looks like like

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Speaker 2: Darth Vader without his mask.

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Speaker 1: It's all like scarred, and he has no hair, and

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Speaker 1: he's like a mess.

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Speaker 2: Some of the Thunderbolts are surprised by this. Not at

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Speaker 2: pretty sight, is it, he says about his face to

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Speaker 2: his team. You would prefer it remain hidden behind a

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Speaker 2: mask very well then, but not the mask millions have

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Speaker 2: come to trust today instead, where a rather older mask, a.

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Speaker 4: Mask with dark arrows associations, the mask of helmet ogociations

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Speaker 4: thirteen Barentzemo and the leader of the Masters of Evil. Yes,

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Speaker 4: and then he reveals the true identities of his team

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Speaker 4: to be the Fixer, the Beatle, Screaming Mimi, Goliath, and Moonstone.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so it's Meteorite, is Moonstone screaming Meme? Songbird is

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Speaker 3: really screaming Mime. And that's the most important character of

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Speaker 3: any of these, because that's the most likely who's probably

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Speaker 3: going to show up in the MCU soon. Yeah, Mac

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Speaker 3: six was Beatle Atlas was Goliath, Techno was Fixer, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: Baron Zimo. It was a huge shocking twist, and that

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Speaker 3: a successful launch because it actually the original Thunderbolts, the

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Speaker 3: Busiac and Bagley version. It ram for like seventy six issues,

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Speaker 3: which is basically unheard of nowadays.

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Speaker 1: It quite unheard of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this would go, this would go thirty and then

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Speaker 2: they'd be done or twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was seventy six issues. And then we

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Speaker 3: get to the different iterations of the Thunderbolts, none of

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Speaker 3: which have kind of ever been that successful or take

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Speaker 3: a while for them to get back into their to

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Speaker 3: their way. So we have the John R. Coody, Francisco

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Speaker 3: ruse velasco which I actually think is an underrated concept,

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Speaker 3: which was after Thunderbolts seventy six they took over, which

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Speaker 3: was essentially and Jason, I don't know if you remember

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Speaker 3: these covers, I'm sure you do. They made each of

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Speaker 3: the covers look like men's magazines like Maxim, really weird,

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Speaker 3: silly but good, beautiful art, and essentially the interior of

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Speaker 3: the books was very different. It was basically a slice

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Speaker 3: of life story like what would it be like to

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Speaker 3: be a street level bad guy in a world where

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Speaker 3: superheros had ruined your life and honestly quite ahead of

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Speaker 3: its time concept. And this team was Armadillo, Daniel Axiom

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Speaker 3: and the man Killer, and it was like not well received.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a little bit too different, a

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Speaker 3: little bit too weird, a little bit too cartoony, and

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Speaker 3: then it only ran for six issues. Then they rebooted

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Speaker 3: Thunderbolts to the New Thunderbolts Issue one, which was would

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Speaker 3: run for eighteen issues, and that had that This is

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Speaker 3: interesting to see the casting because you really start to

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Speaker 3: realize that what they're taking from now is either the

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Speaker 3: first concept of the Thunderbolts or teams that were built

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Speaker 3: in later. Because there was an eighteen issue run after

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Speaker 3: New Thunderbolts, which was Blizzard Atlas, Songbird back again, Max

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Speaker 3: Mac four this time, and that was like RAM for

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Speaker 3: eighteen issues, so did a little bit better. But then

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Speaker 3: when they came back with Thunderbolts and they were like,

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Speaker 3: it's Thunderbolts Issue one hundred.

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Speaker 1: We made it, guys like.

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Speaker 3: Good for us, which they always do when they basically

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Speaker 3: just ren the schemes. Then they at the time obviously

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Speaker 3: now disgraced writer, but at the time huge writer Warren Ellis,

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Speaker 3: and he basically introduced what started to look a little

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Speaker 3: bit more like the Thunderbolts that we would know going

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Speaker 3: on in the comics, which was Bullseye, Songbird, Moonstone, Radioactive Man, Venom, Swordsman,

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Speaker 3: and Pennance. But the trick was that those characters were

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Speaker 3: also hiding, so Matt Gargan was actually Venom, chen Lu

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Speaker 3: was Radioactive Man, and interestingly that was where Norman Osborne

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Speaker 3: first got involved. During the Dark Reign event, we got

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Speaker 3: the next Thunderbolts, which was like a two issue arc,

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Speaker 3: but importantly did introduce Yelena Belova as one of the Thunderbolts.

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Speaker 3: Also basically she was taking on the Black Widow Mantle.

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Speaker 3: Then we had Erico Gradier's a Man and we had

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Speaker 3: a version of God. So that's the first time we're

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Speaker 3: hitting two of the MCU Thunderbolts. But it was really

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Speaker 3: Dark Avengers that took Thunderbolts back into the mainstream, back

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Speaker 3: into the conversation in a way that they hadn't been

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Speaker 3: for a long time, which was you had Century, who

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Speaker 3: as we know, will be in the MCU Thunderbolts as Bob.

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Speaker 3: You also had Aries and then you had Novar as

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Speaker 3: Captain Marvel, but the disguised super villain's portion was still there,

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Speaker 3: so you had Moonstone who was pretending to be Miss Marvel,

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Speaker 3: Matt Gargan, he was Venom actually portraying Spider Man, so

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Speaker 3: it was a double betrayal there. And then you had

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Speaker 3: Bullseye portraying Hawkai and finally one of my favorite characters

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Speaker 3: all time, Wolverine Sundacon playing Wolverine and it was a

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Speaker 3: team put together by Norman Osborne who took on the

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Speaker 3: identity of the Iron Patriot. Since then, we've had other

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Speaker 3: versions of The Thunderbolts, which is where the idea of

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Speaker 3: Bucky being and the Thunderbolts came in, and to tie

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Speaker 3: in with the movie, there is currently the new Thunderbolt

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Speaker 3: which features Bucky Barnes. Black Widow has X twenty three,

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Speaker 3: It has a carnage, It has the Hulk, but a

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Speaker 3: younger Hulk. It has it has no more, it has

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Speaker 3: Clear and Wolverine and it looks very fun. Sam Humphrey's

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Speaker 3: Tunney my art. So they're trying to tie them back together,

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Speaker 3: but that's kind of a comic book who's who of

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Speaker 3: who was in this team, and as you'll see, it's

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Speaker 3: still the MCU is taking I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: Liberty's and just building like a team based on this

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Speaker 3: and what they want to do with it. So I

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Speaker 3: guess we should kind of just talk about who is

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Speaker 3: in the MCU Thunderbolts quickly. Sure remind everyone we'll.

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Speaker 1: Be right back after a quick break, and we're back.

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Speaker 2: So let's do a quick run through of the bios

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Speaker 2: of the Thunderbolt's number one roster. Okay, so here's the

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Speaker 2: roster for the ThunderWolves and Thunderbolts.

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Speaker 1: Number one.

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Speaker 2: You have Baron Zimo, who is pretending to be the

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Speaker 2: leader of the team. Citizen five tell us about comics

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Speaker 2: Baron Zimo, the thirteenth Baron Zemo.

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Speaker 3: Well, we have often talked about Baron Zimo because it

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Speaker 3: was quite controversial how beloved he became in the MCU,

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Speaker 3: seeing as in the comics he was any you know,

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Speaker 3: but he was inspired, like so many villains, after the

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Speaker 3: death of his father and then the ret of Captain America.

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Speaker 3: Those two things kind of inspired him to become a

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Speaker 3: true villain. He first appeared under a different name as

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Speaker 3: Phoenix in the Captain America issue one, hundred and sixty

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Speaker 3: eight in nineteen seventy three, and he was a legitimately

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Speaker 3: fantastic Captain America antagonist. He's one of the longest running

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Speaker 3: ones that we still know he also, if you want

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Speaker 3: to know about his messed up face and why it

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Speaker 3: was like that, he has one of the most in

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Speaker 3: hindsight hilarious but also horrifying origins, which is when he

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Speaker 3: was fighting with Captain America after he captured him, he

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Speaker 3: fell into a vat of what his father invented, a

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Speaker 3: chemical named adhesive X, which was essentially like a super

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Speaker 3: glue that his dad made super glue. He spilt it

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Speaker 3: on his face and permanently attached his hood to his face,

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Speaker 3: which I also just think is like so so funny

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Speaker 3: and yet obviously alas his head was stuck in that

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Speaker 3: Master for.

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Speaker 1: A long time.

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Speaker 3: That has changed and over the years, and he has

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Speaker 3: been allied with Armond Zola, which is more kind of

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Speaker 3: how we know him in the comics. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 3: would say, like the Thunderbolt aspect of his career is

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Speaker 3: really big, because that was this kind of new incarnation

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Speaker 3: of the Masters of Evil that he had always throughout

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Speaker 3: his career wanted to do. And yeah, he's he's just

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Speaker 3: had a rough time of it. You know, he's a

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Speaker 3: bad guy. He's he's he's gone up against a lot

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Speaker 3: of people. He has also done some wild stuff, like

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Speaker 3: he leaked the Thunderbolt's true identities and forced them to

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Speaker 3: flee with him.

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Speaker 1: Into deep space, like he did not.

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Speaker 2: One of the fun twists of the Thunderbolt series that

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Speaker 2: original seventies six run is and I'll talk about more

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Speaker 2: this worthy of us.

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Speaker 1: The Thunderbolts started.

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Speaker 2: To kind of like being good guys. They start to

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Speaker 2: like it, and the funnest thing, it's part of the

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Speaker 2: fun of the series.

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Speaker 1: They're like, wait a second, this is good. And Zemo

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Speaker 1: did not like that. He's not a fan of that.

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Speaker 2: So he leaked their identities in order to keep his

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Speaker 2: control over there, which is such a dick move.

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Speaker 3: It's such a dick move. And also I have to

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Speaker 3: say something that's very interesting is like Zmo is involved

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Speaker 3: in a lot of the Thunderbolts comic kind of adventures.

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Speaker 3: He attempted to take over the world again in a

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Speaker 3: short that I didn't mention Avengers versus Thunderbolts. He also

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Speaker 3: was involved in creating the new Thunderbolts kind of trying

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Speaker 3: to manipulate from behind the scenes, and I'm interested to

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Speaker 3: see the MCU's answer for why he is not in

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Speaker 3: this version of the Thunderbolts, because he is one of

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Speaker 3: the most beloved MCU villains. The version of Baronzemo that

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Speaker 3: we've got out of Falcon and the Winter Soldier that

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Speaker 3: was one of people's favorite parts. He has been reimagined

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Speaker 3: there without the Nazi origins in the comics, he has

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Speaker 3: also kind of grown out of those and he has

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Speaker 3: akin to the MCU. He has sometimes allied with heroes,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Captain America or Iron Man, but he usually

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Speaker 3: has a scheme in his back pocket. So I just

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Speaker 3: think it's very wild that he is not in the Roster.

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Speaker 3: But who knows, maybe that's going to be a surprise,

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Speaker 3: or maybe, as some of us suspect, this will lead

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Speaker 3: to more of a Dark Avengers, hence the old asterisk

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Speaker 3: at the end of the name.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the rest of the Roster Techno is actually Fixer, yes,

295
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Speaker 2: who is like a technological kind of engineering type, genius

296
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Speaker 2: level creator of weaponry. You have the Beatle, who's the

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Speaker 2: Beatle the Beatle.

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Speaker 3: We really get deep here, They were having a lot

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Speaker 3: of fun with this one, because the thing is one

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Speaker 3: of the best things is you can when you're doing

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Speaker 3: a reimagining like this, they're obviously like, hey, please don't

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Speaker 3: ruin any of the characters that we really love. So

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Speaker 3: the beetle mantle has been used by multiple individuals, though

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Speaker 3: it is he's best known as Abner Jenkins. That was

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Speaker 3: also the version that is in The Thunderbolt, and he

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00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,640
Speaker 3: essentially has like an amtman costume that he created because

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Speaker 3: he's he's another he's a master mechanic. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of interesting that in putting this team together

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Speaker 3: they went for people who actually had good technical skills

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Speaker 3: to create supersuits to put that kind of thing in

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Speaker 3: the place. And also I think it's funny because it

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00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 3: makes sense as Mac six looked kind of like a

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Speaker 3: robot that was people's thought, but it was actually the

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Speaker 3: beers a guy.

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Speaker 2: It was just a guy, isn't it always just the

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Speaker 2: guy next to the songbird is actually screaming mem man.

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Speaker 3: I love this so much because this is one of

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Speaker 3: the coolest kind of This is one of the ones

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Speaker 3: that I think has has run the longest. Screaming mem

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Speaker 3: a nice nod to a classic noir movie from nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty eight. One of my faves. This is a very

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Speaker 3: interesting character because she first appeared in Like the This

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine Marvel two and one by Mark Grunenworld

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Speaker 3: who we know they take so much from from the MCU,

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Speaker 3: Ralph Matchio and John Byrne. She was a super villain,

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Speaker 3: supervillain supervillain, but when she came into the Thunderbolts that

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Speaker 3: started to change. She's a runaway. She's kind of got

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Speaker 3: Like I would say, if you like DC and you

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Speaker 3: know Black Canary, there's a lot of similarity in those powers.

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Speaker 3: She has sonic screams, she can create solid sound constructs,

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Speaker 3: and she would essentially later become a part of Shield

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Speaker 3: as Songbirds. She was in the Civil War event, and

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Speaker 3: she has kind of died and come back and died

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Speaker 3: and come back. She's had some scary stuff where men

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Speaker 3: have become obsessed with her and kind of like fixed

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00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: her up after near death so that she can be

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00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 3: there singing slave. But she is a very interesting character

338
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 3: who played a key part in Secret Invasion and interestingly

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Speaker 3: during the Dark Reign event, which, as we mentioned, was

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Speaker 3: one of the big Thunderbolts kind of returns. She also

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Speaker 3: kind of created her own resistance to Norman Osborne after

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Speaker 3: he tried to get Thunderbolts to get So I'm very

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Speaker 3: interested in seeing where this goes a lot of casting

344
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Speaker 3: every time it comes up, people like, is this finally

345
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Speaker 3: going to be Songbird?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 3: Because she's a really interesting, complex female character and it

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Speaker 3: would be very cool to see her powers put to

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Speaker 3: screen with like a massive, massive budget, because we have

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Speaker 3: seen in the Marvel Animated Universe there have been versions

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Speaker 3: of her, the Melissa Gold version where we kind of

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Speaker 3: see her as an antagonist first in Avengers Assemble, but

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Speaker 3: we have yet to see her be brought to life

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Speaker 3: on the big screen, and I think that is the

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Speaker 3: bit out of the Thunderbolts. Aside from Baronsimo, she's your

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Speaker 3: biggest name character who is probably going to be in

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Speaker 3: the MCU relatively soon.

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Speaker 2: Next up Goliath, Oh who is Atlas. Goliath is a

359
00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 2: longtime Zemo family ally, having worked as a mercenary for

360
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Speaker 2: Citizen five Baron Helmet Zmo the thirteenth Baron Zuma's dad

361
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Speaker 2: Heinrich Zimo in South Africa, So a long time ally

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Speaker 2: of the Zmo family, and then finally Moonstone, the doctor

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Speaker 2: of Doctor Carla, who is my great character wonderful. I

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00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: love Moonstone, like legitimately thinks she's such a fun no.

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Speaker 3: She is.

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Speaker 1: It's such such a fun character she has.

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Speaker 3: Like she began as kind of like an evil doctor

368
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Speaker 3: who basically just manipulated her patients and tested their kind

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Speaker 3: of fear and their paranoia. But in classic Marvel fashion,

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Speaker 3: in classic comic book fashion, that was not enough. So

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Speaker 3: an Incredible Hulk two hundred and twenty eight, she had

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Speaker 3: to season alien Artifact and that would give her cosmic

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Speaker 3: powers and create the supervillain known as Moonstone. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: love this character. She's legitimately fantastic. She's part of the

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Speaker 3: great cosmic kind of tradition of Marvel. She was one

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Speaker 3: of the thunderbolts who really did start to enjoy being good.

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Speaker 3: But she is also someone who she struggles to keep

378
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Speaker 3: her villainous side under wraps, and oftentimes she and Screaming

379
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: Mimia kind of teamed up to keep an eye on

380
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Speaker 3: each other, though though Moonstone struggles a little bit more

381
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Speaker 3: to Moonstone likes to be girl.

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Speaker 1: Moonstone is one of those thunderbolts.

383
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 2: She likes the accolades that come with being a good guy,

384
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: not necessarily being a good guy, for she.

385
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: Enjoys being celebrated. Who amongst us does not. But yeah,

386
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Speaker 3: I love her. She's great.

387
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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the MCU team.

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Speaker 2: Here's what we know Winter Soldierspassion Sin probably the leader

389
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Speaker 2: or co leader of the team, along with.

390
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Speaker 1: Yelena the Queen we love you. Yeah. Next we have

391
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Speaker 1: of He of the Wandering Eye, David Harder.

392
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Speaker 2: Of the team Yeah, the strongest question mark, strongest member

393
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: of the team. Then we have Wyatt Russell, he of

394
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: the off brand super Soldier, sal Us Agent, the disgraced

395
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: former Captain America. We have Ghost, last seen in Man.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad she's back. A great representation.

397
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: So glad she's back in a really cool power set

398
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: that you know. I guess Vision has a similar thing,

399
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Speaker 2: although you don't really see him use it in this way,

400
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: kind of like a precursor to Katy.

401
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: Kitty Pride when they whenever they bring her in.

402
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: Yes, task Master, who we met in the Black Widow film,

403
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 2: although there's some question now about how long task Master

404
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: may be around.

405
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: She's going to be in the movie or not. It's unclear.

406
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: It was not necessarily a very popular representation of the character,

407
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: and they reimagined it, so I wouldn't be surprised if

408
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 3: they were trying to kind of open up a space

409
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 3: to do a different version. Let's say, so.

410
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: Your thoughts about this team.

411
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: I like it.

412
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: I like that they are acknowledging in the trailer, you know,

413
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 2: like Elena basically acknowledges like we can't fly. Yeah, we

414
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: have super strength, but it's not like the top class

415
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: super strength in the MCU. We basically just punch and

416
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: shoot people.

417
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's a group of killers. Let's be real,

418
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: most of these characters were created to murder people. As

419
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: many of us recall, Bucky Bonds killed JFK. He was

420
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 3: the JFK assassin, and yet now he is a He's

421
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: a congressman, So that's interesting. But yeah, I think this

422
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 3: is an interesting team. I think it's pulling from lesser

423
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: known anti heroic villains from the MC I will also

424
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: say there is kind of a precedent in the comics.

425
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 3: Bucky Barnes did like an anti terrorist version of The Thunderbolts,

426
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 3: which was like volume five when they relaunched it as

427
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: Thunderbolts number one, and that had Contessa in it. She

428
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 3: kind of became involved, but obviously she was really you know,

429
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: had her own nefarious kind of viewpoints and ended up

430
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 3: actually taking on the mantle of Citizen five to kind

431
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: of take on the real old school Thunderbolts as a

432
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: new supervillain team under kind of Doctor Doom. So I

433
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: think there's some interesting potential crossover there. Basically, don't trust

434
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: Contessa Valentina, you know, Fontaine, don't trust her. Don't trust

435
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: Louis Julia, Louise Dreyfuss in this role. Obviously, we know

436
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: that Lewis Pullman as Bob is going to be Century

437
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: probably the main antagonist unclear currently antagonist slash wha.

438
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it'll be It'll be really interesting to

439
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: see how they deal with Bob, because Bob is the

440
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 2: in the comics Century is like the most powerful technically hero, like,

441
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: oh yeah, your strength and question he he tears uh

442
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: you know, aries literally in half.

443
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: At one point in the in the Marvel Comics universe. Yeah, okay,

444
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: so but he doesn't.

445
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: But his mind has been uh fractured, and he doesn't

446
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: remember a lot of his history or that he's even

447
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: this hero yeah, so.

448
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 3: I would say this is an interesting team. It does

449
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: include Winter Soldier. He has been in a Thunderbolts comic,

450
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 3: Florence Pugh's Yelena as Black Widow. She has been in

451
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: one David Hobbs Red Guardian, not immediately that I know,

452
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 3: but he is a rather a kind of like a

453
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: low key character US agent, very complicated character. But I

454
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 3: love why at Russell. I hope that we get to

455
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: see him get explored here a bit more. Ghost been

456
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 3: on a Thunderbox team before. I'm very interested. As you

457
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 3: mentioned about Olga as task Master, will she get the

458
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: task mastering that she deserves? Will she finally get to

459
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 3: be task Master? Now here's my big my And I

460
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 3: know that they did this on purpose, just to target

461
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: me specifically, but I love Geraldine Viswanathan. If you have

462
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: seen Blockers, she's so funny. She's hilarious. And guess what

463
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: her name is as the kind of like human psychick,

464
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: it's mal So is she gonna be Songbird aka Screaming

465
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: mab me Ak Melissa Bo She'd better be, But you

466
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: know what she's really gonna be like just somebody who

467
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 3: works for Valentina, because this is always how they get me,

468
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: But there's a chance, and I think she would be

469
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: utterly fantastic and I'd love to see her in that role. Obviously,

470
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: we know original Thunderbots members, so that could be a

471
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 3: very cool twist. But we're basically gonna have to wait

472
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: until the Thunderbox movie is out to know exactly where

473
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: this is gonna go. And from the trailers, from the

474
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: way they're presenting it, it feels like they believe in

475
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: this as a new team, So I hope it's gonna

476
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: have that longevity. I hope this is gonna just like

477
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: the original Thunderbolts kind of become this surprising be team

478
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: to the Avengers that we know that the MCU is

479
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 3: gonna need as they head into this kind of doomsday

480
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: secret Wars space. But yeah, I'm I'm excited. It looks

481
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: good man, but I don't wanna. I don't wanna Jinx.

482
00:29:42,440 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: Next up are Omnimous. Welcome to the Omnibus where Laura

483
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: and understand It come together.

484
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: Today we're gonna talk about the Thunderbolts and.

485
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: The state of Marvel and comics in general in the nineties.

486
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: When Thunderbolts Number one appeared in nineteen ninety seven.

487
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: Let's consist time. What a time.

488
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: Consider where the MCU is right now, right their great

489
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: run of success seemingly behind them, at the mercy of

490
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: a quickly changing marketplace, at the mercy of apparent audience apathy,

491
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: and imagine that being much much worse. That was much worse.

492
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: That was Marvel Comics in the nineties. It was all

493
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: of that amped up to fifty. In fact, the entire

494
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: comics industry, the entire collectibles industry, that's a larger conversation Bibbs,

495
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: you know, cards, et cetera. Everything collectible was kind of

496
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: heading into the toilet at this time, and Marvel Comics

497
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: was was a victim of that. The entire industry looked

498
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: like Cecovia at the end of Asia Oltron. It was

499
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: because of various factors, including a speculation boom fed by

500
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: these kind is chasing of various short term fads with.

501
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: These collectible covers, foil covers.

502
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: Fake collectible number one issues that were created just to

503
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: juice this secondary collectible market. And it left readers feeling

504
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: exploited and really burned out and like nothing mattered anymore.

505
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: And it didn't help that the writing because of this

506
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: massive infusion of content coming into the space was not

507
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: of a standard that.

508
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: Fans had come to enjoy. And adding to this, a

509
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: lot of Marvels.

510
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: Most buzzy creators had recently abandoned the company because of

511
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: revenue sharing and started their own company, you know.

512
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: Across his story called Image.

513
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: Comic shops were being boarded up, you know, titles were

514
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: being canceled, and Marvel itself, in nineteen ninety six had

515
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: filed for bankruptcy protect its true very very very dark time.

516
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 2: DC thought about the tires on buying Marvel, like they

517
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 2: could have bought their oh cold long so cheap too,

518
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: Like it was crazy. So onto this stage appear the

519
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: Thunderbolts debuting in nineteen ninety seven in this huge period

520
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: of transition, and the transition wasn't just in the industry,

521
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: it was creatively as well. We talked about it a

522
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: little in the recap of Thunderbolts number one. This is

523
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: post Onslaught. So the Onslaught event was an event that

524
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: tore away and killed in the real continuity, appeared to

525
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: kill basically all of the mainstay heroes of the Marvel universe,

526
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: the Avengers, the Fantastic four thor Iron Man. They were dead,

527
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: they were gone, torn away to this separate continuity called

528
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: Heroes Reborn, which was itself this like desperate attempt to

529
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: use sales by.

530
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: Contriving to bring back two.

531
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: Of their fugitives to Image Comics, Jim Lee and Robleyfield,

532
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: who had done so much to add to the company's

533
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: success in the nineties, and basically being like, please do

534
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: whatever you want with these characters in this separate continuity.

535
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: And it was they paid the six so much money,

536
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: like they were going bankrupt, but they paid these guys

537
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars to come back from Image

538
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: which had been founded just four years before and had

539
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: basically decimated, you know, Marvel coming off eight million copy

540
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 3: sell X Men one.

541
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: Move and listen. The sales at least initially were.

542
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: There, but like are they saving your company? Sales?

543
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: No? No?

544
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: And the content the stories were bad.

545
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 3: Amber. If you think, what what's Haros Reborn? Well, remember

546
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: if you've seen the Seen the Life Out Boob Captain

547
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 3: America with the crazy chest, that's from Hairs Reports. I'll

548
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 3: say you know what, don't look it up anyway.

549
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: So there's this huge vacuum in the six one six

550
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: continuity because all the heroes are gone, uh, and so

551
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: what do we do?

552
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: How about a new team? How about new heroes? How

553
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: about the Thunderbolts? But where do they come from?

554
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: They come from creators Kurt Busk, writer and long time

555
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: veteran artist Mark Bagley. Basik had dusted off an idea

556
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: that he had had previously, which is basically, you know,

557
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: for an Avengers storyline, is basically, what if the Massive

558
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: of Evil long time Avengers foils, who at one point

559
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: had destroyed the Avengers mansion and you know, almost killed Jarvis, YadA, YadA, YadA.

560
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: What if they disguised themselves as heroes? So with Avengers

561
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: with heroes were born getting critically slammed, and the heroes

562
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: themselves not available in the main continuity, he pitched this idea,

563
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: what about the Masters of Evil going good? When Thunderbolts

564
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: Number one landed, it seemed pretty straightforward for most of

565
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: the comic. You know, it's like a fun new group

566
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: of heroes into the breach, taking up the mantle, picking

567
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: up where the Avengers of the Fantastic Four might have

568
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 2: done their work.

569
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,959
Speaker 1: And for you know, twenty one.

570
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: Pages, you're watching Citizen five Songbird Atlas Meteorite Makwan techno

571
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 2: basically helps stabilize New York City and Marvel's continuity while

572
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: the city burns around them. They introduced themselves to the city,

573
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 2: everybody loves them, and then come back again the.

574
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: Approval the pre heroes like going great and.

575
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: Then comes the final page in that reveal, which we

576
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, and you know, it's hard to understate

577
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: the influence like it was.

578
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: It was huge.

579
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: This was there was absolutely no inkling that this was coming.

580
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 2: There were no leaks about it. Yes, there was a

581
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: lot of promo about who was the Thunderbolts, who could

582
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: they be? Who are these new heroes, But the idea

583
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: that they beyond being new heroes that were being introduced,

584
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: could be actually heroes and villains that you know, that

585
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: was not being discussed. And this was early Internet. You know,

586
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: I was not on whatever Internet boards for comics existed

587
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: on the time, so it was all words of my mouth, yeah,

588
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: I mean, but the word of mouth was really it

589
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: was like this was one of those comics where, in

590
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: a very dark time in the industry, you walk into

591
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: your comic shop and the and the people working there

592
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: are like Thunderworld number one.

593
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly, like really talking about it, and it

594
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: really it was a rare time that you could be surprised,

595
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, like you can actually it's not getting leaked,

596
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 3: it's there's not a bleeding cool article about it. There's

597
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 3: not some you know, preview toy that's connected to it.

598
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 3: This truly people didn't know until they read that last

599
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: page or their friends told them, you know, And it

600
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: was really really interesting.

601
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: And this is influenced you know, Marvel in particular in

602
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 2: lots of ways, and I see echoes of it, you know,

603
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: through various periods of the comics history, including like the

604
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 2: the mystery surrounding who was a lady thor you know,

605
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: who killed all these different things. The Dark Event, the

606
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: intro of the Dark Avengers was very clearly and.

607
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 3: It's basically Dunderbolts. And also, I mean the biggest arguably

608
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: obviously we are comic book guys and we love that,

609
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 3: but I mean the fact we're talking about this idea

610
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: that Busiac had during a time, you know, a year

611
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: before Marvel is going to be bought and merged with

612
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: Toy Bears, and that changes the state of everything, like

613
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: we're talking about it now, almost thirty years later saying, oh,

614
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: they're making a Thunderbolts movie. So that's how influential. It

615
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: goes even past the comics. It's now something that they're saying, hey,

616
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 3: we kind of It's like you actually beautifully summed up, Jason.

617
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: This is a time that is echoing when the Avengers

618
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: were no longer the hottest thing, and now Marvel in

619
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: the MCU and the Avengers are no longer the hottest thing,

620
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 3: is saying hey, maybe this could work in the movies too.

621
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 1: It was, It was an event.

622
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: So for Marvel, Thunderbolt's Number one was a absolutely necessary

623
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 2: shot of adrenaline at the time when the company was

624
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: like on its s it's really honest back. It proved

625
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: that Marvel still had some tricks up their sleeve. They

626
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 2: could still create cool, buzzworthy moments that weren't just about

627
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: rehashing you know it's foil covers and creating fake collectible

628
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: number ones. They could really do it in universe, in

629
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: story in a way that felt cool and replicable. And

630
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: it's also a marker of a period where Marvel started

631
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 2: to take more creative risks, starting with Thunderbolts and most

632
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: notably continue with the Ultimate Universe. This is when men, yes,

633
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: when they started bringing in all these cool creators and

634
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: being like, just do something cool with these But in Universe,

635
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: learning the lesson from onslaught and heroes reborn, and this

636
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: laid the groundwork for a comeback that literally saw them

637
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: conquer the pop cultural landscape to reach heights of success

638
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: that will you know, to be fair, probably never be

639
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 2: matched again. And and the Thunderbolts the series, even after

640
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: the jaw dropping twist, continue to deliver really great comic

641
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: book stories because, as we mentioned the recap, our heroes

642
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: discover something that they kind of like being good guys,

643
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: that some of them like this. They take on a

644
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: new member named Jolt, who is this teenage hero who

645
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: doesn't know their backstories, doesn't know that she's working with villains,

646
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: and she sincerely, she sincerely wants to be a hero,

647
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: and her sincerity and her optimism is infectious to the

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Speaker 2: rest of her teammates, who begin to kind of gravitate

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00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 2: towards her, much to barren Zmo's chagrin.

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Speaker 1: As we mentioned, goes to desperate lengths to keep his

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Speaker 1: grips on the team.

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Speaker 2: Read the rest to find out how that goes and

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Speaker 2: looking back, thunderbol Umber one stands as one of those

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Speaker 2: rare mons in culture, in comics, in any kind of

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Speaker 2: like creative enterprise, where everything kind of clicks, the creative clicks.

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Speaker 2: The marketplace was ready for it, the fans were ready

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00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: for it, and the industry needed a rebirth.

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Speaker 1: Marvel needed to win.

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00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: Fans were looking for something that was like, authentically great

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00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: and reminded them of why they had fallen in love

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00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 2: with Marvel Comics in the first place, not a marketing ploy,

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Speaker 2: and everybody won thought Able Summer one.

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Speaker 1: It was great.

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Speaker 2: In the next few episodes of X ray Vision were

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Speaker 2: continuing our deep dive in and Or season two, and

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Speaker 2: on Friday, we're convening the Jedi Council for a Jedi

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Speaker 2: Council Roundtable discuss all things Star Wars. That's it for

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Speaker 2: this episode.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: Bye.

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Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion, I'm rosday

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Speaker 1: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.

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Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.

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00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 3: All produces are Common Laurent Dean, Jonathan and bai Wag.

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Speaker 2: The theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

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Speaker 2: songs by Arn Kauffman.

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Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

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Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator,