1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dom here. If you like this 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: fm to get started. 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space. 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: Think about what you would say to a child who 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: is hurt or upset. Think about how compassionate you would 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: be with that child, Or think about how compassionate you 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: are how you respond to your friends and family when 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: they are hurt or upset, how gentle you are with them. 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: That same gentleness that you bestow upon others, turn that 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: inward and be gentle with yourself in that same way. 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration, 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments, 21 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also, 23 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab. 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting 27 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: women like you. We're your hosts, Doctor Dominique Broussard, a 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: college professor and psychologist. 29 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a 30 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please 31 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from 32 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: five roids to fake friends and create a safe space 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: where black women can just be. 34 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 3: Hey. 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: Lady's doctor Dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast. 36 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: Do you have a burning question you're dying to get 37 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: feedback on. Do you want an unbiased perspective on a 38 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: situation you're facing. If so, visit cultivatingheirspace dot com and 39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: click ask Doctor Dom under the start here option. Every Tuesday, 40 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: I'll choose a few questions and answer them at random. 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: All right, our quote of the day. You either walk 42 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: inside your story and own it, or stand outside your 43 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: story and hustle for your worthiness. Lady that quote comes 44 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: to us from doctor Brene Brown. Pooh, that's a quote, 45 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: and Brenee has a lot of quotes, but that's a quote. 46 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read that one more time. You either walk 47 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: inside your story and own it, or you stand outside 48 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: your story and hustle for your worthiness. 49 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 2: Tea, Well, I guess we might as well just dive 50 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: on in. Because so when DOM found this quote, and 51 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: you know what, Dom as, I think more about the 52 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: tension and the apprehension that I had when you brought 53 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: it up. What I think was happening is me feeling 54 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: passion for myself and other people who feel shame because 55 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: this quote, it really prompts you to take ownership and 56 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: to make a decision and to be the victor and 57 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: not the victim of your story. And I think about 58 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 2: situations where I felt shame, and sometimes when we're feeling shameful, 59 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: we're not ready to accept it. I can control this, 60 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: like I can either walk inside my story or I 61 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: can continue to stand outside of my story and be 62 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: in denial and be embarrassed to be shameful, and I 63 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: can hustle for my words in it. So I think 64 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: that when I reflect more about why I felt the 65 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: way I felt when you brought this quote up, which 66 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: I think is an amazing quote. I think that is 67 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: what was coming up for me. 68 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: And I think what was coming up for you is 69 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: so important for what we're talking about today, right Like, 70 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: we'll dive more into it later, but what came up 71 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: for you is precisely the thing that we want folks 72 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: to do when they're trying to overcome shame is to 73 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: engage in self compassion and then engage in compassion for 74 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: other people. So that's one of the tips. But we're 75 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: gonna come back to that, because first we got to 76 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: talk about, well, what is shame and what does it 77 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: really look like? How does it show up in our lives? 78 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: And I think we hear shame a lot, and I 79 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: think many of us have felt it. But lady, you've noticed, 80 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: if you've listened to any of our other episodes, we 81 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: like to dive in at least first with a definition 82 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: or some context. So when we think about what shame 83 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: is at its core, doctor Brene Brown says that shame 84 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that 85 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging 86 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: we're afraid that people won't like us if they know 87 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: the truth about who we are, where we come from, 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: what we believe, how much we're struggling or believe it 89 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: or not. How wonderful we are when soaring. Damn that 90 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: last part, Dom, How wonderful that shit right there? That 91 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: resonates with me deeply, because let me tell you, I 92 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: will dim my light. I used to do it a 93 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: lot more, but like I will be quick to dim 94 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: my shit, you know, dim it to make everyone comfortable, 95 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: because I don't want any you know, I'm not trying 96 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 2: to make anyone uncomfortable. So it's like, Damn, how wonderful 97 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 2: you are when you're soaring. That's deep, That is deep. 98 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: And I think about, you know, the comment that you 99 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: just made about dimming your light and how much we 100 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: do that as black women. Mm hm, how we have 101 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: been socialized as black women to dim our light around others. 102 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: Remember that saying when we were younger, Dom, Oh she 103 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: thinks she all as she thinks she alled ad in 104 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: the bag of chips. That reminds me of those statements 105 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: right where you might go to school and the lady 106 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: you might be the one that's like, oh, I'm about 107 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: to go to school. It's the first day of school. 108 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: You know, you got your cute outfit and you're trying 109 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: you're too fly, Okay, you're trying to stunt. I feel 110 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: like I would try to put on the Q outfit, 111 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: but then I would try to do something like take 112 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: away from it a little bit, just so I'm not 113 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: too hot, because I didn't want to be too hot, 114 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: because then you get extra attention or people hating or 115 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: they start with the oh, she thinks she all that. 116 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: When it's like now, I feel a lot more different 117 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: about that, saying like I'm like, yeah, I do think. 118 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: I think I'm smart as hell and I think I'm 119 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: all that, and I think there's nothing wrong with that. 120 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: Like it's okay to be confident. Now I'm not confident 121 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: every day, but I mean it's okay to be generally confident. 122 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: And I think that when you are confident and you 123 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: love yourself, you're comfortable with that, and you're comfortable with 124 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: other people exuding that same confidence, you know what I mean? 125 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think that, you know, as I 126 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: talk to women who are in their forties and beyond 127 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: from a developmental perspective, one of the things that I 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: think about is that women over forty mm cool, I've 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: talked to just without them even saying it, like in general, 130 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: their general presence is I'm not dimming my life for 131 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: none of you people, right? 132 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: Is that what you really want to say? You want 133 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: to say? People, I feel like you wanted to say 134 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: something else. 135 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: Yes, yes you felt in coming out, but yes, the 136 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: real phrase that I want to say is when we're 137 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: feeling ourselves, right, particularly like like I said, my conversations 138 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: with women over forty is I ain't them in my 139 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: life for none of you hoes. But yes, and meaning 140 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: that in the realest sense of not necessarily referring to 141 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: folks as hoes. 142 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 3: Right. 143 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: But I am truly stepping into my light and I 144 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: am going to be who I am and I don't 145 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: give a namn about what you think about it. I 146 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: am comfortable in my skin and I know. 147 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: We're taking a little detour, but I felt this is 148 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: important to say. 149 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: Dom. 150 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: I feel like the more that I've become comfortable and 151 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: confident with myself as a being, when I see other 152 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: people that are confident and they killing that shit and 153 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: they feel themselves, I get excited. But there was a 154 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: point in time where I used to think that modesty 155 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: and humility meant dimming your life, and so I thought 156 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: that someone had to not think so highly of themselves 157 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: to be humble. And so when people were, you know, 158 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 2: had that same belief as me, then I was like, Okay, 159 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: they're good people, they're modest, they're humble. But as soon 160 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: as someone came into the room and they you could 161 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: tell they were confident or they knew they were smart 162 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: as hell or cute as hell, whatever it might be, 163 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: I was uncomfortable because it triggered something in me. Okay, right, so. 164 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: Right, and I think that that so that does bring 165 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: us right back to what we're talking about in in 166 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: terms of shame. Right, So you're in that situation around 167 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: that person who that other woman who is hella confident, 168 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: and you're feeling triggered, like your your emotions are being activated, 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: and what's being activated is that sense of. 170 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: Shame, right, shame and judgment, right. 171 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 3: Yes, right? 172 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of what that is is 173 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: when you are in that room with that other woman 174 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: and like she has no shame, she is comfortable and 175 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: confident in who she is. What that's activating in you 176 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: is that sense of shame within yourself around whatever it is. 177 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 3: Right. 178 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: So, whether that woman is wearing the latest outfit, and 179 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: the latest outfit, you know it's something that's showing a 180 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: little bit more skin m hm. And you're looking at 181 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: her and you may be judging her for showing more 182 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: skin because you feel shame about the idea of like 183 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: you wanting to show skin, right, Like you're judging yourself 184 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: for not wanting to fall into the societal expectation. 185 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 3: But you are right, And so. 186 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: You're feeling fear of letting that out right, like letting 187 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: other people know that you're not buying into that expectation 188 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: of modesty m And you're activated because she is doing 189 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: the thing that you wish you had the confidence to do. Right. 190 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: I can totally see how someone could feel that way, 191 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: and I know I've definitely felt that way at times. 192 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting too that that Brene Brown 193 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: talks about how we tend to associate shame with major 194 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,479 Speaker 2: trauma or defining negative events. So whether that's an abusive childhood, 195 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: an addiction, a pile of credit card debt, but when 196 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: we look at it, shame can really be an unworthiness, 197 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: can really be universal right, no matter what hides out 198 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 2: in our past, Like anyone can feel this way, and 199 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: it really is in most cases part of the human experience. 200 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: I think many of us have situations that have made 201 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: us feel shameful. And she says that feeling shame is 202 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: to be human, right. 203 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: It is because like, okay, think about the examples that 204 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: you just listed, growing up in an abusive home, or 205 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: having an abusive childhood, having an addiction, having a huge 206 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: pile of credit card debt, those are things that a 207 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: lot of people experience, a lot of people experience those things, right, 208 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: But yes, it's a we in the feeling shame around 209 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: it because one, yes, the feeling of unworthiness, but also 210 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: sometimes two feeling as though we are the only person 211 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: who was having that experience. 212 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: M h that dom and I think that in this 213 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: world of social media, I think also the outside opinions 214 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 2: of others, I think that can also add to the shame, right. 215 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: And when I was thinking about this episode and thinking 216 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: about us talking about this topic, it made me think about, 217 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: you know, when is the last time I can really 218 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: remember feeling a lot of shame about something? And I 219 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: definitely want to hear from you. Two don but I know, 220 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: for me, when I think about this topic in general, 221 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: one of the many instances, because there are many, one 222 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: of the many instances that came up for me was 223 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: when I moved to Silicon Valley and was working in tech, 224 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 2: and it's kind of reminds me of the quote that 225 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: you read in the beginning. I was working in a 226 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: world one where I was one of few black women 227 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: and women of color or people of color just in general. 228 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: I was working around people that had Ivy League degrees. 229 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: And I remember sitting in meetings and they would ask 230 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: for feedback and I would just be so just frozen 231 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 2: because I'm like, damn, I don't know in my mind 232 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: in the meeting, I just be thinking of myself. Damn, 233 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if what I have to say is valuable. 234 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if, you know, do I need a 235 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: code switch? What if like my little you know, my 236 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: accent comes out because I get a little excited sometimes 237 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna just say, Philly Cally accent comes out, 238 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: because depending on you know, what I'm talking about, either 239 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: one will come out. And I'm thinking about how well 240 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: they went to Harvard, they went to you know, Yale, 241 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: and they went to Stanford and I went to two 242 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: you know, public state schools, So just really judging myself 243 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: and feeling a lot of shame about my upbringing and 244 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: my background because I it was around people that were 245 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: much more I want to say accomplished air quotes, right, 246 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: and people who appear to have much more experience, and 247 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: they were more cultured based on the fact that they 248 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: had a chance to travel and all these things. And 249 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: so that was a time I really felt very shameful 250 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: and struggled a lot with imposter syndrome because of the 251 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: people I was around. 252 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: Ooh, you bring up a valid point when you talk 253 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: about imposter syndrome, right, That a connection that I hadn't 254 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: put a lot of thought into until just now as 255 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: you said it. But that connection between shame and the 256 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: imposter syndrome, right as you were speaking, that made so 257 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: much sense to me. That shame is tied to these 258 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: feelings of unworthiness, and imposter syndrome is also about that, right, 259 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: like these feelings of I'm not supposed to be here. 260 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: Yep if someone finds out right. 261 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: Right yep. 262 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: What about you, don when you think about the last 263 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: time you felt a lot of shame, what experience was 264 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: that for you. 265 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: Well, I would say the experience that I've talked about 266 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: in a couple of episodes more recently around like the 267 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: licensing exam and. 268 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: This process of. 269 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: Becoming a licensed psychologist, that passing that exam, And for me, 270 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: there was a lot of shame around not passing, And 271 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: so for a long time in the beginning, like after 272 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: the first couple of times when I didn't pass, I 273 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: just wouldn't talk about it, and I was teaching, so 274 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: I didn't have to, and so I would just, you know, 275 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: I would just be quiet around it because I didn't 276 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: want people to know, because I felt that if people 277 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: knew that I didn't pass, if there would be judgment, right, 278 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: that they would question my ability to be a good therapist, 279 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: that they would question my ability to be in this 280 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: profession when what we know one is that I'm a damn. 281 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: Good therapist, and. 282 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: Two that that test is not an accurate reflection of 283 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: anybody's ability to be a therapist, because I know folks 284 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: who pass the test first time around score really high, 285 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: and in my opinion, I wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable with 286 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: how they do therapy. And I know quite a few 287 00:17:53,520 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: folks who mostly folks of color who had some experiences 288 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: to mine, and they're the first folks that I would 289 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: refer people to because they are excellent clinicians. 290 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: M h. 291 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: But for me, I felt like there was going to 292 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: be a lot of judgment there. I felt bad about 293 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: myself in regards to not passing, Like I felt like 294 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: there was like this this rid this scarlet letter f 295 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: like failure you know, just written across me. 296 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 3: And it's sad with me. For a long time. 297 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: I'm just processing what you said and thinking about it. 298 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: One it made me really happy when you say I'm 299 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: a damn good therapist. Okay, so forget about y'all license 300 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: in this test, Like I'm a damn good therapist. Yes, 301 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: And that's how we should feel that way about ourselves, 302 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: especially if we're doing the work and we have you've 303 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: put your career around this, you have results that prove it, 304 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: Like you don't necessarily need these outside sources to tell 305 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: you that you're good at XYZ. Right. I think that 306 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: a lot of times when I think about, you know, 307 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: like business school and different degrees. Yes, to play the 308 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: game in this world that we live in, sometimes you 309 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: do have to go get this degree or get this 310 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 2: certification to prove air quotes to other people that you 311 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: can do this work. But there are so many things 312 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: that I've been able to do down without certifications and 313 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: without you know, official training or a stamp of approval 314 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: from some organization, you know what I mean. And so 315 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: I'm glad that you pointed that out, but it makes 316 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: total sense, And I think we should just take a moment, 317 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: lady and think about what are some of the things 318 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: that you or people that you know might feel shameful about. 319 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking of like random, just random things 320 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 2: like it might be your past, right, it might be 321 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 2: your upbringing or family cycles, you know, having an abortion. 322 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: I think about that, you know, being a shameful experience, 323 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: struggle with postpartum depression. 324 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 3: You know. 325 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: I think about, as we've talked about in previous episodes, 326 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: just about owning our sexuality, and I think about how 327 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: some women may have. 328 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 3: Shame around their sexual history. 329 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: Right, some of us may have shame around our weight, 330 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: whether we feel like we are overweight or underweight. There 331 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: may be some shame around our weight and what our 332 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: body looks like. And then for some of us, there 333 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: may be shame around a mistake that we've made right, 334 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: and that can be a variety of different things, but 335 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: something that was not intentional on our part that caused 336 00:20:54,080 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: harm to another person or thing and we feel extreme 337 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: shame about it. The thing that comes to mind, though, 338 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: when I think about all of these reasons that we 339 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: just mentioned, there are so many people that have experienced 340 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: those things, right. None of those things that we listed 341 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: are events that have happened to one person in the 342 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: entire world. And so when I think about it, you know, 343 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: I think about how we process it, right, And I 344 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: guess this is a question that we can kind of 345 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: you and I can kind of talk about, But. 346 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 3: Like, do you think that. 347 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: Shame can keep us in line and kind of serves 348 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: like serves like as an emotional correction. 349 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 3: Right, or do you think it's something else? 350 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: Mm hmm Ooh, that's a tricky question. I think that 351 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: depends on your belief system, because I think about the shame, 352 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 2: you know, being raised in church. I think about a 353 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 2: lot of the shame that came up for me and 354 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 2: a lot of other people based on just, you know, 355 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 2: the teachings that we've learned about in church, and according 356 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: to the Bible, you'd be living a sin if you 357 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: do certain things, right, I think about the shame that 358 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: comes up with that. And then also it just makes 359 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: me think about how you feel about yourself because I 360 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: know there have been periods of life and this is 361 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: something I would say I'm still working on, but periods 362 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: of my life where I felt as though, one, I'm 363 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: hard on myself, right, I tend to be very hard 364 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: on myself. So I think sometimes if I do feel 365 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: shame about a situation, it might make me feel like, 366 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm keeping myself in line. So let's 367 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: just say, for instance, right, use, I'm trying to use 368 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 2: an example lady that's like appropriate for this, but food 369 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 2: is the first thing that comes to mind for me. 370 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, maybe I, you know, ate something 371 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: and I felt ashamed about Oh damn I eighth you 372 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: know what. Let me be honest. Pizza. 373 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: Oh there you go, because I was gonna go to pizza. 374 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Right yeah, So let's say that you said I'm going 375 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: and let me not just say let me let me 376 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: not say you. 377 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 3: Let me be real, I'm talking about me. 378 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: Let me say that that I decided to start the 379 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: new year off being pescatarian again, right, And that I'm 380 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: only going to eat seafood. Now I've said let's say 381 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: that I've said this, and I've put this out on 382 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: social media and this is like this, and I'm telling 383 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: everybody like I'm going pescatarian again. And then I decide 384 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: one night I'm hungry and I decide to order barbecue 385 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: chicken pizza because I love me a good Chicago deep 386 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: dish barbecue chicken pizza. 387 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 2: Come on, Dom, you're making me hungry right now. 388 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 3: Listen. 389 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: I just made myself hungry thinking about that. 390 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, there may be. 391 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 3: Some shame right around. Damn. 392 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: I said that I was gonna be that this is 393 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the way I was gonna go. This was a diet 394 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: change that I'm gonna make, and now I'm eating this 395 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: barbecue chicken pizza. There may be some shame around that, 396 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: right or a lot of shame. 397 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: But here's the thing, Dom, I'm thinking about the question 398 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 2: that you asked, and I think that depending on your 399 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 2: internal like your personal beliefs, right, your personal beliefs about yourself, 400 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: I think that you could be one person where you're like, damn, 401 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do better next time, or you might your 402 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: girlfriends might. 403 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 3: Call you up. 404 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 2: I saw a meme about this recently. Your girlfriends might 405 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: call you up, like, girl, how that new diet going. 406 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 2: You're like, girl, I'm doing really good. You just lie 407 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: because you're like, y'all, I'm ashamed of what I just did. 408 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: Or you might be the person where you're like, and again, 409 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 2: it depends on yourself talk. You might be like calling 410 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 2: yourself all types of names like you shouldn't ate that 411 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: goddamn pizza, that's why you xyz, you know, just kind 412 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: of going off on yourself, and you could see that 413 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: as the beating your self up process. You could see 414 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: that as a way of like keeping you in line. 415 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: So I think it really does depend and me having 416 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: such high standards for myself. I think I have a balance. 417 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: I would say that there are times where I'm like, 418 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not going to live in shame 419 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: because what does it think about? How it makes you feel? Lady? 420 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: How does it make you feel? What does it do 421 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: to you when you feel ashamed and we're walking around 422 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: just being shameful? Right, it's not a good feeling. But 423 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: then there are other times where I'm like, all right, 424 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: says you need to get this together and I'm a 425 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 2: little harder on myself, and so I think I do. 426 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: In some cases you shame as this sort of emotional 427 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 2: course correction or teaching tool. So I think it really depends. 428 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that's the perfect way, but I'm still 429 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: working progress. But that's kind of what I believe about 430 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: that question. What about you? 431 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: Ooh? 432 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: You know, when I think about the whole, the course 433 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: correction piece and the keeping one in line, what immediately 434 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: came up for me is growing up in the Catholic Church. 435 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: And now my Catholic Church folks do not come for 436 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: me because what I'm sharing is my experience. 437 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 3: Right. Part of my issue with the Catholic Church. 438 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: Is that, and there are other religions that do the same, 439 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: but I can only speak to my experience growing up 440 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church that the way it was presented 441 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: to me caused a lot of shame. And there were 442 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people that talk about this concept around 443 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: Catholic guilt that you engage in behaviors like premarital sex 444 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: and then you feel this intense guilt afterwards. And I 445 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: know that I went through that a good bit in college. 446 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: Right of this conflict within myself so this piece of 447 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: I like sex. 448 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: Like this is fun. 449 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 3: I can't even do it. 450 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: I can't even find the words like I enjoy sex. 451 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: But then I would have moments of shame and guilt 452 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: because I knew that in the Catholic Church, you know, 453 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: they talked about like you should not have sex before 454 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: marriage and sexist is supposed to be for the purposes 455 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: of procreation. And then like I really started to feel 456 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: shame and guilt because I took this Catholic sexual ethics class. 457 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to talk about that a whole nother 458 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: time because that's child yeah wow, yeah, But I just 459 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: remember feeling a lot of shame and guilt around that, right, 460 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: And that was as a young adult, and so having 461 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: to work through that as a young adult of like 462 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: being in the space of I know that I enjoy sex, 463 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: and I know that having sex is not a problem. 464 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: I know that that I'm not going to Hell for 465 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: having premarital sex, but that's not the message that I'm receiving. 466 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: And so then I find myself in this space of 467 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: trying to keep it quiet from the adults in my life, 468 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: right right, right that I didn't want to tell my 469 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: mom or my grandmother. 470 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 3: Damn sure, not my grandmother, right, because. 471 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: I did not want to disappoint them, you know, because 472 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want them to think that I was any 473 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: less than. But then I also remember as a kid 474 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: thinking small things like using a file word, right, using 475 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: an explicit word. I would feel shame around that, Like 476 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: I was a kid that had that guilty conscious that 477 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: if I did it's something that I thought was wrong. 478 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: I would either like most of the time, I would 479 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: go and run and tell my mom and be in 480 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: tears about it because there was. 481 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 3: Just so much shame around it. 482 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: Or I would just hold it in until I couldn't 483 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: hold it in anymore and then go run and tell 484 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: my mom. But it was this need to like feel 485 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: like I had to hold it in because I knew 486 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: that it was something that or I perceived it as 487 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: something that made me unworthy. 488 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 3: Maybe you're less. 489 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: Than that's deep down. I I'm just thinking about what 490 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 2: you said there, and I'm processing it. But I think 491 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: it's so interesting how perspective can do a lot the 492 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 2: wrong perspective or I mean just various perspectives. I'm thinking 493 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 2: about various perspectives that we have societal norms expectations that 494 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: are put on us that can really washe so heavy 495 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: on our hearts and thinking about the experience that you shared, 496 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: And lady, we're gonna go ahead and share what shame 497 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: looks like in action, and then's some tips to deal 498 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: with shame. Dom I want to tell you a story 499 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: about something else that made me feel shameful, but I 500 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 2: want to do it in the after show so that 501 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: we can make sure we have time for our tips 502 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: that we're going to share. So, lady, if you want 503 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: to tune into the after show, head on over to 504 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 2: Herspace podcast dot com after the show and click on 505 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: the link that says Patreon at the top, and then 506 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: you can tune into our little ratchet after show. But 507 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: as far as like what Shane looks like in action, 508 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 2: Dom right saying things like I'm flawed, or who do 509 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: I think I am? 510 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 3: Right? 511 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: Going back to imposter syndrome too, or I'm gonna pretend 512 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: everything's okay, or no one can ever find out about 513 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: X y Z right, or I can change to fit 514 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: it in if I have to write or ooh about 515 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 2: this one. Taking care of them is more important than 516 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: taking care of me, Oh black woman. 517 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, that part, that part. 518 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: And then of course you know we always have that 519 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: I'm not good, pretty talented, successful, rich, masculine, feminine, tough, caring, 520 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 2: pretty skinny, creative, popular enough, and so on and so forth, right, 521 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: all the things. But that's how it can look an 522 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: action lady, if you are feeling shameful, but we got 523 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 2: you today, Okay, we got you. 524 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: Yes, So our first tip, bring shane into the light. 525 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 3: Shine a flash light, shine that ring light. 526 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, that camera, phone, flash light, whatever you 527 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: gotta do, bring that into the light. And to me, 528 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: when I hear that, what that looks like is. 529 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 3: Telling someone. 530 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: Let you trust, right. 531 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, definitely, yes, yeah, because let me clarify that. 532 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for pointing that out, because yes, someone that 533 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: you trust, Because if you tell someone that you don't 534 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: trust or someone that's not a safe person, what ends 535 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: up happening is that person just feeds into your shame, 536 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: right exactly. They just tossed the judgments at you, and 537 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: all the negative thoughts you already were thinking, they just 538 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: tossed those right back at you and end up making 539 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: you feel worse than you were already feeling. Right, So 540 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: you want to share with someone that you trust. One 541 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: of the things that I used to do, like I said, 542 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: as a kid, like I would run and tell my mom. 543 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 3: Right. 544 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: So, let's say that one of my siblings says something 545 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: that pissed me off and I told them, you know, 546 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: leave me the fuck alone. 547 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 2: Ooh, I'm telling exactly what they would say too, right, Oh, 548 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: I'm telling Mommy, I'm. 549 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 3: Telling you, yes. 550 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: And so I would feel shame around that right around 551 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: saying like, oh, I said that word, and not only 552 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: shame around I said that word, but shame around I got. 553 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 3: Upset at someone. I lost my temper. 554 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: And so then it would, you know, like I would 555 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: go and tell my mom, and then my mom would 556 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: like comfort me and normalize what I was experiencing. 557 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 3: Now granted she was not. 558 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: There was no compassion for me using five words, but 559 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: there was comfort and validation around the feelings that came up, right, Yeah, 560 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: And so that kind of soothed my soul. 561 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 3: Right. So, finding that person that you trust so that. 562 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: You can share what's happening and get the support that 563 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: you need, get the encouragement that you need. 564 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 3: You know, you have that person who's pouring into you. 565 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 2: Spot On Dom. I would agree with that wholeheartedly. And 566 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: I want to add something onto what you said, because 567 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 2: I think for me, part of my ministry has been 568 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: sharing very transparent and raw stories from my life, the 569 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 2: ones that I feel comfortable sharing. And I remember one 570 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: that I felt so shameful about was really just my upbringing, 571 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 2: like some of the things that people my family have done, 572 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: really where I come from and where I come from. 573 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 2: And I remember when I was in college where my 574 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: biological father and my mom were both incarcerated at the 575 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: same time, and I was mortified, and I was like, 576 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, if anyone I think I was with 577 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: friends and someone had asked, like what my parents do? 578 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 2: And I lied about that shit. But now that I 579 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 2: know that, I'm not defined by where I come from 580 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: and what happened to me, and I'm in a very 581 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 2: different place in life now, I can, you know, think 582 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: about some of those stories and that doesn't define me, 583 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: Like I'm okay with owning it, and I you know, 584 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: shared some of that stuff in my book. And so 585 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 2: sometimes it's you telling people that you trust. But also 586 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: if you have a PLATF form where part of your 587 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 2: ministry and your work is sharing those parts of your story. 588 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: Now I see people coming out of the woodworks and 589 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, girl, that was my story too, 590 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 2: where I resonate. So bringing it to light and just 591 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 2: taking ownership, like the quote of the day, it just 592 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 2: really it allows other people not to really, I mean, 593 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: what can they say when you own it? Like, what 594 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 2: can someone else say? 595 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 3: Right exactly? That takes the power from them. 596 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 2: It takes the power from them. Now Number two I 597 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: really love number two. Tip Number two is become attuned 598 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 2: to the script of your inner dialogue and expand your 599 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: capacity to observe but not react to it. And when 600 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: I hear that, it actually makes me think about mindfulness 601 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: because it makes me think about my experiences where I've 602 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: had to self soothe and calm my ass down when 603 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 2: i'm you know, you know how your mind can be, lady, 604 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: where you just have all these thoughts and all these narratives. 605 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 2: And we have to remember that are thoughts don't define us, 606 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: and our thoughts are not always true. Just because some 607 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 2: shit pops up in your mind, it doesn't mean that 608 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: we have to entertain it or act on it or 609 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 2: react to it. But it's a matter of Okay, I 610 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 2: just had this thought that said I ain't shit. But 611 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: and I know that might be funny that some people could, 612 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: but hey, sometimes it's real. Sometimes you really have a 613 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: thought and it says you ain't shit. Oh you know 614 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: what I mean, whatever it might be. And if you 615 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: have that thought, it's like, okay, I just noticed this. 616 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: This is us practicing number two. I just noticed that 617 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 2: I had this thought. That's interesting. I had thought. I'm 618 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 2: not attaching myself to it. I am literally just observing 619 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: the thought. And I'm like, okay, that is very interesting 620 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: that that thought popped in my head. And then if 621 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 2: you want, you could always name off reasons why, well, 622 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 2: actually that's not true, Like I have done this in 623 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: my life and I've done you know what I mean. 624 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: You could name off reasons why it isn't true. But 625 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 2: I think the core there is just observing and not reacting, 626 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 2: not taking ownership, not attaching yourself to it, and knowing 627 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 2: that your thought doesn't mean anything unless you get the power. 628 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: Right right, And I think you know the thing that 629 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: I want to add because I could I could see 630 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,959 Speaker 1: where someone who is new to the concept of working 631 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: through their shame may have difficulty with this, right, yes, 632 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: And so I would say this step is an A 633 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: and a B, right like A Part one and A 634 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: part two like Part one, is to first develop the 635 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: practice of becoming a tune to your inner dialogue. Right 636 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: that for some of us, we have been so long 637 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: in this practice of negative self talk that we do 638 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: it without even being aware that we're doing it. Right, 639 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: And so for those who are new to this in 640 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: terms of really trying to break free from shame, I 641 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,959 Speaker 1: want you to know that it may take some time, 642 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: it will take practice to get to really develop that skill. 643 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 3: It's kind of like working out right. 644 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: The first time you start lifting weights, you might be 645 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: at three pounds and that might be all you can 646 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: do and your arms are aching. But then the more 647 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: you do it over time, you realize that three pounds 648 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: is pretty light, and now you have to keep going 649 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: up and increasing how much you're lifting. And so it's 650 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 1: the same thing with this that, like dealing with your 651 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: inner dialogue, takes some time for you to notice it 652 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: and become attuned with it, and then you can start 653 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 1: giving yourself that space to just observe. 654 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 2: Thank you for that, dom because when I think about 655 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: my journey of updating my internal dialogue, it took a 656 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,439 Speaker 2: lot of time and effort, and it was not easy 657 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 2: in the beginning. 658 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 659 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: That brings us to our third tip, developing greater inner 660 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: compassion with yourself. The goal here is being able to 661 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: choose compassion. 662 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 3: As your goal, to. 663 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: To cultivate a dialogue of increased self acceptance, recognizing that, 664 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: like every other human being, you have flaws and weaknesses, 665 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: You make mistakes and suffer. We are not alone, even 666 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: when we feel that we are. Compassion one of the 667 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: things that I like to tell people in terms of 668 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: developing greater inner or self self compassion, And if you're 669 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: looking for a resource, doctor Kristin Neff has a book 670 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: about self compassion that is really helpful. Think about what 671 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: you would say to a child who is hurt or upset. 672 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: Think about how compassionate you would be with that child, 673 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: Or think about how compassionate you are, how you respond 674 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: to your friends and family when they are hurt or upset, 675 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: how gentle you are with them. That same gentleness that 676 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: you bestow upon others, turn that inward and be gentle 677 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: with yourself in that same way. 678 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,919 Speaker 2: I love it you hit the nail on the head 679 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 2: dom and number four is also lady just as a 680 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 2: side note, so Domini, as we record this episode, I 681 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 2: am eight months pregnant. I had that went to the bathroom, 682 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 2: so Don was holding it down. I was like, I 683 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: gotta go real quick. So thank you for that, Don, 684 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 2: all right. Number four is become a witness to and 685 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 2: mourn your wounds. This requires the ability to identify and 686 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: sit with the pain associated with your hurts, current and past. 687 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 2: I love this one, Don, because we've talked about this 688 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: on the podcast before. But you know, many of us, 689 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 2: I think we've been taught to feel shame about our feelings, right, 690 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 2: especially anger and those feelings that are sometimes people call ugly, right, 691 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, shame and all those things about these feelings, 692 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 2: and I think that this particular tip it reminds us 693 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 2: that it's okay to feel all the feelings, feel the pain, 694 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 2: and bear witness and mourn your wounds. 695 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 3: Right. 696 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 2: So, when I was feeling the way that I felt about, 697 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: you know, not being good enough because I was in 698 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 2: these settings and other people had these prestigious degrees and whatnot, 699 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 2: sitting with myself and understanding that, you know, asking yourself 700 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 2: questions like why do you feel this way? How do 701 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 2: you feel exactly? You know, and letting myself know that 702 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: it's okay to have these feelings. And then personally, what 703 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: I did. I had to build my confidence, which took time, 704 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: build my confidence over a couple of years, and that 705 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: was finally in a place where I shifted my perspective right, 706 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 2: and my new perspective was like, well, I got the discount. Okay, 707 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 2: I'm still at the table with you, but I got, 708 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: you know, a public school degree, and I still have 709 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 2: something to offer, you know. So it's all about just 710 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 2: holding space for yourself to feel all of the emotions 711 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: and mourning those wounds. 712 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 3: I love that, and I think that what that lead. 713 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: That also leads to our final tip forgive yourself for feeling, 714 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: thoughts or actions of your quote unquote former self. Right, 715 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: it's easy for us to beat ourselves up about hindsight, right, 716 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: like we always eat hindsight is twenty twenty, We can 717 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 1: find ourselves in a position of beating ourselves up for 718 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: not having the insight that we currently have at an 719 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: earlier age. 720 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:23,359 Speaker 3: Right. So if I knew what I know at. 721 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: Almost forty, when I was twenty, things would be different. Yeah, 722 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: things would be different. I wouldn't be the person that 723 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 1: I am now. Right at twenty, I could only operate 724 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: with what I knew at that moment. I cannot be 725 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: mad at my twenty year old self for things that 726 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: I know today. 727 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 2: Yes, girl, it makes me think about like you said 728 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 2: that quote where you're like, girl, I knew then what 729 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,359 Speaker 2: I know now. Okay. I sometimes even have that thought 730 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 2: where I'm like, yo, I would be this much far 731 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 2: right or I would have done this. But like you said, 732 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 2: it really does make it to who we are, and 733 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 2: all of those experiences were part of the journey. And 734 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 2: I can be honest with you and say, dom although 735 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 2: I've had a lot of tough experiences and I know 736 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 2: you've had as well, I personally would not take anything 737 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 2: from the journey because it really did make me who 738 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 2: I am, and the perspective that I have is not 739 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 2: something that could be earned in a precedius university or 740 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 2: you know, on the store at Gucci or whatever. You 741 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, it just can't. 742 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: So one of the things that one of my friends 743 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: shared with me is that had I not like in 744 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: terms of like as we were like kind of talking 745 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: about and processing like the licensing thing, had I passed 746 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: that exam the first time around gotten licensed the first 747 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,240 Speaker 1: time around, I wouldn't be where I am right now doing. 748 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 3: This podcast, right really? 749 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 2: Why not? 750 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: Because my plan at that time was private practice. Like, 751 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: that's straightforward for private practice, right. If I had passed 752 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: that first time around, I wouldn't have like continued to 753 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,720 Speaker 1: teach and had the impact that I've had through teaching. 754 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 3: M h. And I wouldn't have been doing the podcast, 755 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 3: right damn. 756 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 1: And so yes, hindsight is twenty twenty right like, but 757 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: not from a space of me beating myself up. But 758 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm my hindsight is gratitude for the journey, yes, because 759 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: if things had gone the way that I had planned, 760 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: if I hadn't gone through that, I would not be 761 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: doing the things that I'm doing today. 762 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 3: And I'm very grateful for the things I'm doing today. 763 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 2: I know that's right. Well, I appreciate you sharing the 764 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 2: down because I did not know that. And lady, we're 765 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 2: gonna go hop over into Patreon for the after show, 766 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 2: so make sure you tune in with us. But this 767 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 2: was a good episode. I can't wait to continue the 768 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 2: conversation me too. 769 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 3: Let's do this, yeah. 770 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 2: Hy, lady, it's Terry here from cultivating her space. Are 771 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 2: you tired of working hard for your money? Do you 772 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,760 Speaker 2: want your business to run smoothly when you're out of office? 773 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 2: If you want to learn how to automate your business 774 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 2: cash flow and increase your impact and influence, join me 775 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 2: from our free workshop at brandwith Terry dot com. Again, 776 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 2: that's brand with Terry dot com. My name is spelled 777 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 2: te double ri. I hope to see you there, lady. 778 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today. Please note that our show 779 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: may contain conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment, and 780 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 1: mental health, but is by no means meant to be 781 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 1: a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained 782 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 1: mental health provider. If you are someone you know is 783 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 1: in need of mental health care, please visit a Therapy 784 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: for Black Girls directory Psychology today or contact your insurance provider. 785 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep 786 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 2: the conversation going, visit our website cultivatinghearspace dot com and 787 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 2: be sure to click the Patreon tab to get access 788 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 2: to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show and 789 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 2: before we meet again, repete after me. I am doing 790 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 2: the best I can with the understanding knowledge and awareness 791 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 2: I have at this moment,