Speaker 1: What I came to learn from ultimately is to trust,
Speaker 1: like to trust life. I trust women. You know that
Speaker 1: we have we're living in an hour is so exciting
Speaker 1: that women are not about to step back, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's exciting. I trust that. I trust women's voices
Speaker 1: and fierceness. I trust wife, and now I believe that
Speaker 1: goodness shall triumph, and hope shall triumph. And at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, love is bigger than all. That
Speaker 1: was zanev Salvey, who'se boundless energy and compassion led her
Speaker 1: to start a world renowned nonprofit, Women for Women International,
Speaker 1: and made her one of the most honored humanitarians in
Speaker 1: the world. I'm a land Revere and this is Seneca.
Speaker 1: One hundred women to hear. We are bringing you one
Speaker 1: hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making women.
Speaker 1: You need to hear. Santa Salvey grew up in Iraq.
Speaker 1: Her father was Saddam Hussein's personal pilot, and she came
Speaker 1: to the United States as a young woman. In nine
Speaker 1: she launched Women for Women, which works in the world's
Speaker 1: most dangerous places for women, Afghanistan, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq,
Speaker 1: South Sudan, and more. Over the years, it's helped half
Speaker 1: a million women and distributed more than a hundred million
Speaker 1: in aid and micro loans to them. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and eleven, Santov stepped down as CEO of Women for
Speaker 1: Women and went on to become a familiar face and
Speaker 1: voice in the media as a commentator, as an author,
Speaker 1: as a talk show host and podcast host. Listen and
Speaker 1: learn why Zane EV Salby is one of Seneca's on
Speaker 1: Women to Hear. I'm speaking today with ZANEB. Salby, the
Speaker 1: founder of a global nonprofit organization serving women in very
Speaker 1: difficult straits, author, commentator, TV host Sane it's such a
Speaker 1: pleasure to have you with us, Milan, the pleasure is
Speaker 1: absolutely mine. Thank you. You do so many things. You've
Speaker 1: done so many things. Most famously, you've found it that
Speaker 1: wonderful global organization, Women for Women International. You've written four books,
Speaker 1: including a memoir about growing up in a rock. You
Speaker 1: host interviews with women of consequence, you often appear as
Speaker 1: a commentator on news programs, and you just started another
Speaker 1: nonprofit to combat climate change. We have so much to
Speaker 1: talk about today, but let's begin by my asking you,
Speaker 1: how would you define the saying of Salby. I was
Speaker 1: just thinking about that actually the other day, because, as
Speaker 1: you said, there are many things that I've done. I
Speaker 1: think I am someone who believe in bringing people together. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: at the bottom of all what I'm doing is trying
Speaker 1: to bring people together, and the focus of it has
Speaker 1: been women and marginalized voices. Um And because I do
Speaker 1: see us, you know, as one as you know, and
Speaker 1: coexisting in this earth, And what's the point of our
Speaker 1: fighting and division and all of that when we're actually
Speaker 1: all one under, under the divine and in this earth.
Speaker 1: So that's what I would say. I would say I'm
Speaker 1: a humanitarian. All these things are just labels, but that's
Speaker 1: ultimately what I stand for. Well, that's beautiful, and knowing
Speaker 1: you as I do, I think it's it's well said.
Speaker 1: So let's go back. You grew up in Iraq. What
Speaker 1: was that like and how did that influence all of
Speaker 1: these things that have come after. Growing up in Iraq
Speaker 1: was a combination of fear. You know, I grew up
Speaker 1: knowing Saddam Hussan and my family. My father was his
Speaker 1: pilot and we were close to him, and fear was
Speaker 1: a defining moment, not only because we were close to him.
Speaker 1: But because you know, fear in the entire country, you know,
Speaker 1: we were we always look behind our back, We're always
Speaker 1: were spied on, and you know, you know, our homes
Speaker 1: were bugged and et cetera. So that's one element that
Speaker 1: really stayed with me. And so on that issue, I
Speaker 1: constantly find it amazing whenever I've been thirty one years
Speaker 1: in America and I'm still excited when I can speak
Speaker 1: my mind and not be afraid that I will be
Speaker 1: punished for that. And so fear was a defining moment.
Speaker 1: And so I spent a lifetime searching for freedom, but
Speaker 1: the freedom did not come out of the blue. I
Speaker 1: also grew up with a very strong woman, I would say,
Speaker 1: the first feminist I would I have met, which is
Speaker 1: my mother who, at a young age, I mean, she
Speaker 1: made me read all kinds of books about women's rights.
Speaker 1: I mean I was thirteen years old and fourteen fifteen
Speaker 1: years old, she made me read about roots here in America.
Speaker 1: She made me she would tell me that I have
Speaker 1: to always be strong and always be independent and never
Speaker 1: let anybody speak to me or talk to me or
Speaker 1: touch me in the wrong way. And you know, so yes,
Speaker 1: we were living in fear. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I had this woman, this mother who was dying me
Speaker 1: installing these values in me, and that helped save me
Speaker 1: when later in life I found myself stranded in American
Speaker 1: and escaping and arranged and abusive marriage. And what stayed
Speaker 1: with me was I have to be strong, I have
Speaker 1: to be independent, and I shall never let anybody talk
Speaker 1: to me or touch me the wrong way, as my
Speaker 1: mother had told me. And that made all the difference
Speaker 1: in my life. So how did you leave Iraq and
Speaker 1: under what conditions? Well, I loved Iraq under an arrange
Speaker 1: as a in an arranged marriage, which is a lot
Speaker 1: of people think and arranged marriages, of forced marriage, all
Speaker 1: of that. That was not the case for me. I
Speaker 1: came from a very secular family and a very liberal family,
Speaker 1: and it was more like my mother saying day as
Speaker 1: a marriage proposal outside in America, please go and accept.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what you know? You told me I
Speaker 1: should make my choices and I should find the one
Speaker 1: I love. And she's like just and she was like
Speaker 1: just crying hysterically and just like just please say yes
Speaker 1: and leave. And I don't care what you do with
Speaker 1: the minute you arrive America, just leave, you know. And
Speaker 1: ultimately I wanted to be I mean, I loved my
Speaker 1: mother so much and I was her only daughter, and
Speaker 1: when I saw her crying hysterically, I just, honestly, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I wanted to have her
Speaker 1: stop crying, you know. And so I said, okay, okay, yes, yes, um.
Speaker 1: And until the last minute, my father was against it.
Speaker 1: My mother was saying, I need her to leave the country.
Speaker 1: And but that's how I came. I came as a
Speaker 1: bride to this strange man who was much older than me,
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, again I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: good daughter. My mom was like just crying even in
Speaker 1: our way to the marriage, to the wedding itself in Chicago,
Speaker 1: and they left soon after, and unfortunately, within a month,
Speaker 1: Iraq invaded Kuwait and I could not. I end up
Speaker 1: not being able to speak to my mother and my
Speaker 1: father and my brother's for nine years afterwards. And I
Speaker 1: was I found myself in this marriage with a very
Speaker 1: abusive man who did all the things my mother told
Speaker 1: me not to accept. So three months later I managed
Speaker 1: to escape. Um. You know, Milan, there's so many discussions
Speaker 1: about immigrants and immigrations and duck and all of that.
Speaker 1: In my case, I was nineteen ninety. I escaped from
Speaker 1: this abusive marriage. I had a return ticket from my
Speaker 1: to my country. I did. I had four hundred dollars
Speaker 1: in my pocket, and I did not know what to do.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even go back to home. So I went
Speaker 1: to the immigration office. I lined up at eight am,
Speaker 1: and I remember the the immigration officer who was behind
Speaker 1: the desk, and I vividly, actually, you know, And she
Speaker 1: I said, here's my passport, here's my ticket, here's my story.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. I'm scared. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be you know, I don't want I need
Speaker 1: to work, I need to live. I all sent me
Speaker 1: back home, but I can't go home. So you tell
Speaker 1: me what you do. I don't want to be illegal,
Speaker 1: like you tell me what to do. And bless her soul,
Speaker 1: I mean, I wish I know her name. Bless her.
Speaker 1: So she took me um to the second floor. A
Speaker 1: few hours later, she came back with a work permit
Speaker 1: that allowed me to work and earn a living here.
Speaker 1: And that's how I started my life in America. My
Speaker 1: first job was a Hallmark salesperson, you know, a clerk,
Speaker 1: and and here I am thirty one year later later,
Speaker 1: different person. What a remarkable saga and in a strange country,
Speaker 1: all of this happening to you. But then you went
Speaker 1: on to found Women for Women International, and that is
Speaker 1: a big deal. How did that come to happen and
Speaker 1: why did you start the organization? How did you see
Speaker 1: the need for it? Well, you know, I I started
Speaker 1: the organization within three years of my arrival in America,
Speaker 1: actually even less, you know I started It was my
Speaker 1: first time. First of all, I went back to college.
Speaker 1: I sat learning women's studies and sociology, and it was
Speaker 1: my first time to learned of wars that are outside
Speaker 1: of my country, you know, being in from Iraq. Um
Speaker 1: I grew up in the Iran Iraq War. And also
Speaker 1: we were not having access to international media, so I
Speaker 1: really was very inward looking into the country in Iraq
Speaker 1: and all of that. And no my family traveled all
Speaker 1: over the world. I was not allowed to think politics,
Speaker 1: and so it was my first time to see that
Speaker 1: there are another there's another country in war, this time
Speaker 1: is Bosnia. That they were rape camps and concentration camps. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, taking women from all over from nine years
Speaker 1: old to eight years old, as you know, you know.
Speaker 1: And and while I saw injustice in Iraq, I saw
Speaker 1: injustice in Or, I just couldn't speak about it. You know.
Speaker 1: It was dangerous to speak about the injustice in Iraq.
Speaker 1: It would have killed my family and punished my my father,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was too much of a responsibility.
Speaker 1: And so but then now I was living in America,
Speaker 1: a country that you know, enabled me to speak up
Speaker 1: my mind, and you know, if anything rewarded me for
Speaker 1: that speaking of my mind, you know. And so I
Speaker 1: felt a responsibility that now that I am living in freedom,
Speaker 1: that I must use that opportunity to help other women
Speaker 1: who do not have that freedom. I felt it as
Speaker 1: a basic responsibility. I did not know anything about Bosnia.
Speaker 1: I had no idea where it existed even geographically. I
Speaker 1: knew yugoslav Ya at that time, of course, but you know,
Speaker 1: I had to like teach myself their history and their
Speaker 1: language and their religion and culture. Like I really taught myself.
Speaker 1: It wasn't about who they are, It wasn't about my
Speaker 1: connection to them. It was that there was an injustice
Speaker 1: and I had I can do something about it while
Speaker 1: if in my teenage life I saw injustice and I
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything about it, And so that's how it started.
Speaker 1: Everyone laughed at me. I was twenty three years old
Speaker 1: kid immigrant from Amber, Okay, English my second language. My
Speaker 1: family is not there. I had remarried to a wonderful
Speaker 1: man um and um. But everyone, lets just like, get
Speaker 1: a job, you know, go and buy a house and
Speaker 1: a car. And what are you doing caring about the
Speaker 1: country We don't know, you don't know anything about And
Speaker 1: but I felt an obligation and human obligation, and it
Speaker 1: started with helping and started. I remember September nine, by
Speaker 1: distributing eight to thirty three women. The program started and
Speaker 1: still is. You know. I asked every woman to help
Speaker 1: sponsor one woman at a time by sending her thirty
Speaker 1: dollars a month and along with the letter and a
Speaker 1: picture um for one year only. And that's how I started.
Speaker 1: At that time. It was twenty dollars a month and
Speaker 1: started with helping thirty three women in that September and
Speaker 1: lord and behold, you know, gosh, more than twenty seven
Speaker 1: years later, now you know, we've helped more than four
Speaker 1: hundred sixty house and women and distributed one hundred forty
Speaker 1: six million dollars to women's survivors in wars in different
Speaker 1: parts of the world. And so the journey made me
Speaker 1: believe that's in the possibility of change. That you know,
Speaker 1: if I, an immigrant with no family, with no money,
Speaker 1: with no resources with you know, with just a goal
Speaker 1: and a belief, could do that, then anybody could do that.
Speaker 1: There was nothing nothing special about me. If anything, I
Speaker 1: guess maybe a support from my husband at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and eventually from different women who joined, and eventually from
Speaker 1: different leaders who supported, and that made all the difference.
Speaker 1: But my start was very humble, very humble, but the
Speaker 1: goals were extraordinary because women were going through everything that
Speaker 1: conflict represents in terms of upheaval, and Women for Women
Speaker 1: was really providing an opportunity for them to sustain themselves economically,
Speaker 1: to get back on their feet. And I wonder, now,
Speaker 1: with the situation in Afghanistan being what it is. I
Speaker 1: know you and I spent some time in Afghanistan together
Speaker 1: when you were still with Women for Women, What do
Speaker 1: you think is going to happen to the women there
Speaker 1: now and what should we be doing to help them? Well?
Speaker 1: I was actually just in conversation with the CEO and
Speaker 1: the program director of form A Former International, and though
Speaker 1: I resigned about ten years ago, now I'm I'm blessed
Speaker 1: that the organization is doing well and thriving, and I
Speaker 1: love the CEO and the team over there. And what
Speaker 1: they told me is very upsetting and very sad story.
Speaker 1: So what they said is that the it's been a
Speaker 1: year in progress. Actually what they said is that a
Speaker 1: year and progress where the Taliban are assassinating women who
Speaker 1: are outspoken, or journalists, who are scientists, who are just
Speaker 1: active in the public life. And it's been a year
Speaker 1: of that assassinations basically, And and so they said, when
Speaker 1: they're expanding right now, you know, or expanded in the
Speaker 1: last few months and start taking over provinces, people were
Speaker 1: giving up their arms and just saying okay, okay, they
Speaker 1: will we surrounded, just because they did not want any
Speaker 1: further killing. What's more upsetting even than that, is that flyers,
Speaker 1: I mean I have copies of them have been distributed
Speaker 1: in these provinces with official Taliban stamps on it. That
Speaker 1: with the new or old rules that women can no
Speaker 1: longer live alone, that they can no longer take off
Speaker 1: their headge job, that men have to grow their beard
Speaker 1: and can no longer shave their beer, no more music, No,
Speaker 1: it's it's a reversal back to what we spent two
Speaker 1: decades fighting against. And it's very very upsetting. You know,
Speaker 1: Women for Woman is planning to stay there, um with
Speaker 1: a lot of security precaution, you know, for our local staff.
Speaker 1: But you know, we're worry. I mean we're worry, like
Speaker 1: you know what we're having planned b you know. But
Speaker 1: but you know, everyone is very about can international and
Speaker 1: GEO stay there. Can there be money continuing to support
Speaker 1: all the progress that women have made in the last
Speaker 1: two decades, you know, I mean they're like this one
Speaker 1: thing is not to be able to defend it. There's
Speaker 1: another thing, not to be able to use diplomatic measure.
Speaker 1: But can we make sure that development money continues out
Speaker 1: there so we don't abandon them because they will need resources.
Speaker 1: So it's it's very sad, it's upsetting, very upsetting. They
Speaker 1: feel abandoned, They feel um and and a combination of
Speaker 1: saying okay, yes we do need you know, our own country,
Speaker 1: but also they feel abandoned and and scared, and it's
Speaker 1: it's um I don't know how it leaves me. The
Speaker 1: truth is, it leaves me in a very ambivalent way
Speaker 1: of upset, being very upset, to be honest, you know,
Speaker 1: um at the situation, well, there's every reason to be upset,
Speaker 1: and the fact that they have indeed made so much
Speaker 1: progress there over the last twenty years when you first
Speaker 1: became engaged, just as so many others, And to think
Speaker 1: now the push, this horrible push to set them back,
Speaker 1: to erase all the gains, to take girls out of school.
Speaker 1: It's really heartbreaking. And I know a lot of work
Speaker 1: is going on, just as Women for Women is determined
Speaker 1: to stay to try to keep things moving in a
Speaker 1: better direction. But it's very hard under the circumstances, you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about Afghanistan, thinking about Bosnia, thinking about your founding
Speaker 1: this organization to really help women who find themselves in
Speaker 1: conflict zones. I wonder what you think overall? Have women
Speaker 1: made progress for better or has it just gotten worse?
Speaker 1: What's your view of how far we've come or need
Speaker 1: to go. It's a good question, And I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you one thing before I answered, actually is because you've
Speaker 1: heard me say, I know you share that Baudy, that
Speaker 1: women are bell whether to the direction of society that
Speaker 1: we need to see what's happening to women to read
Speaker 1: the political over the overall political situation in that country.
Speaker 1: And had we done that in Afghanistan, we would have noticed,
Speaker 1: you know, that women have been targeted in the last year,
Speaker 1: and we would not have been surprised that the Taliban
Speaker 1: are taking over so fast, and we perhaps would have
Speaker 1: gone about the withdrawal in a different way, you know,
Speaker 1: had we actually really seen women as Abelle. Wherefore the
Speaker 1: direction not only about women's rights, but the political and
Speaker 1: the economic direction of the society. Now, when I go
Speaker 1: back and you know, look at your question, as you
Speaker 1: mentioned in your interest you know earlier, is you know,
Speaker 1: I recently co founded a group called Daughters for Earth,
Speaker 1: and this honestly came to me what people saying, how
Speaker 1: can we mobilize women and climate change? And if and
Speaker 1: I'm not a climate change expert, so I took my
Speaker 1: time and truly researching the role of women and climate
Speaker 1: change and all of that. Then this is a long
Speaker 1: way to answer your question. Because when I realize that
Speaker 1: women in environmental movement gets two cents out of every
Speaker 1: dollar that goes to all climate change and environmental justice.
Speaker 1: I was lived. I was like, oh my god. I've
Speaker 1: been working on women's rights for the last you know,
Speaker 1: almost thirty years, you know, and we have made a
Speaker 1: lot of progress, a lot. You know that the movement
Speaker 1: forward in Afghanistan, the you know, the me too movement,
Speaker 1: we have more women in politics than ever in America.
Speaker 1: It's all progress, all wonderful progress. And still we are
Speaker 1: talking about two cents going to women out of every
Speaker 1: dollar in in in and as it's relates during development
Speaker 1: or environmental or making changes you know in the world.
Speaker 1: That was like, that got me. I was like, okay, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: So it's I guess it's you. It's both. You know,
Speaker 1: we have made a lot of progress, and I don't
Speaker 1: doubt that this century is their feminine century. The twenty
Speaker 1: one century shall be the feminist century, or or else
Speaker 1: we want to exist, I mean, our own humanities at
Speaker 1: stake at the moment, you know, and you know, so
Speaker 1: I have. I feel like there's more energy in women
Speaker 1: than ever before. I feel everyone knows the power of women.
Speaker 1: I feel more women know their power and and there
Speaker 1: are still not many resources coming to women. And until
Speaker 1: we change that we are still working on the issues
Speaker 1: of marginalization as it comes to women. Well, and that's
Speaker 1: such a good point you made about climate and the
Speaker 1: investments in adaptation and mitigation. Women are so severely vulnerable
Speaker 1: and yet their problem solvers if we only invested in
Speaker 1: them and enable them to be the leaders on climate
Speaker 1: that they can be. So I'm really not surprised, I
Speaker 1: must say, they have that you're moving forward with Daughters
Speaker 1: for Earth senecas one hundred Women to Hear will be
Speaker 1: back after the short break. You have given a lot
Speaker 1: of focus to telling the stories of women because they're
Speaker 1: so powerful, and many of those stories come from the
Speaker 1: Arab world, something that you relate to very personally, but
Speaker 1: also from other places where they may be underrepresented. Why
Speaker 1: is this so important to do well? It's a very
Speaker 1: good question, I feel, because we need to break the
Speaker 1: code of silence that many women were given as just
Speaker 1: part of being a woman. Do not talk about your rape,
Speaker 1: do not talk about your harassment, do not talk about
Speaker 1: your grievance, do not talk about this, do not talk
Speaker 1: about your modest station. Did not you know, it's like
Speaker 1: the secret code. You know we were told and you
Speaker 1: know when I came to America, the question was, oh,
Speaker 1: this is only happened in the development world. And thanks
Speaker 1: to the Me Too movement, which because I create, I
Speaker 1: think it created a unity among women of all classes
Speaker 1: and of colors and of all socio economic backgrounds that
Speaker 1: I am so grateful for, you know, And one of
Speaker 1: the biggest movie star talks about her own abuse. She
Speaker 1: is now in breaking her own silence, united with the
Speaker 1: with the most vulnerable woman in Congo. Because then now
Speaker 1: that's an equality in our in our speaking up. So
Speaker 1: I think women's story is so important to speak and
Speaker 1: to break that silence is to a break that code,
Speaker 1: because you know, when we stay silent to our abuse,
Speaker 1: whatever that abuse, maybe we almost then make it possible
Speaker 1: we continue the legacy of the abuse and we pass
Speaker 1: it on from one woman to the other. When we
Speaker 1: break our silence, it's scary, it maybe you know, shaking
Speaker 1: for our own personal life. Um it's I mean when
Speaker 1: I when I broke my son as, I was scared
Speaker 1: so to my core. I was scared. I was scared
Speaker 1: from my life, from my family's life, all of that.
Speaker 1: But what it did, it liberated me from from the
Speaker 1: chains of the secrets of the story and in that liberation,
Speaker 1: in that freedom, I feel each one of us when
Speaker 1: we do that journey for ourselves, we become individually a
Speaker 1: candle and another woman's dark cave. You know that here
Speaker 1: were there is a way out. There is a way
Speaker 1: to get out of that fear and the shame and
Speaker 1: and all the sorrow and all the things that are
Speaker 1: put on us by just speaking up and calling it out,
Speaker 1: you know, and whoae such a liberation and that So
Speaker 1: that's why I focused on the woman's story so much.
Speaker 1: And I feel, I mean, as you know, I went
Speaker 1: to the Arab world and did a show for Arab
Speaker 1: women and there and my goal there was to build
Speaker 1: small bridges between women, because sometimes we only focus on
Speaker 1: building the big bridges between the West and the East,
Speaker 1: between you know, one content to the other. But the
Speaker 1: through is often we need small bridges as well, from
Speaker 1: you know, one community to the other, from one country
Speaker 1: to the other in the same region. And and that's
Speaker 1: you know, and and that's where breaking the secrets and
Speaker 1: baking and breaking the codes of science helps other ones,
Speaker 1: Like Wow, she is a Muslim and she's an Arab
Speaker 1: and she's still going through that and she's saying that. Wow.
Speaker 1: So sometimes that is even more important to break the
Speaker 1: to build the small bridges than the bigger bridges between
Speaker 1: west and east. And that's really an important lesson, I
Speaker 1: think for all of us to understand that putting a
Speaker 1: spotlight on these stories enabling us to understand what others
Speaker 1: are going through and how similar that might be with
Speaker 1: people we never expect. You know, you mentioned the celebrity
Speaker 1: going through the same thing that a woman abused in
Speaker 1: the DRC may experience and understand. So it is indeed
Speaker 1: very powerful. I know that your new podcast has a
Speaker 1: very interesting approach. You've done so much for others, but
Speaker 1: its approach is different. Tell us about it. My new
Speaker 1: podcast called Redefined, It is coming up in a month
Speaker 1: time in September, and it came out of my own.
Speaker 1: Um it's emotional for me. It's my own brush with death,
Speaker 1: to be honest. And UM, that happened two years ago,
Speaker 1: just before um COVID, actually exactly two years ago. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting because in that moment where I was grabbing,
Speaker 1: you know, grabbing from my last breath or first breath rather,
Speaker 1: you know, and there was a lot of invention I
Speaker 1: was in the ICU, and you know, the doctors are
Speaker 1: around me. But in that moment where I was able
Speaker 1: to take my first breath, you know what what came
Speaker 1: to me in that moment was not the whether I
Speaker 1: got acknowledgement or awards or praises for my work, whether
Speaker 1: you know, none of that matter. What mattered for me
Speaker 1: is had I did I live in kindness to myself
Speaker 1: and to two people around me? Did I live in
Speaker 1: love to myself and two people around me? And it
Speaker 1: took me. I was very sick for about ten months
Speaker 1: where I sort of cut off from the world UM
Speaker 1: as I recuperate and field slowly healed myself UM. And
Speaker 1: it really took me to a very inward journey. I may,
Speaker 1: I spent so much time traveling the world and helping
Speaker 1: women survivors of wars and telling their stories in my
Speaker 1: journalists career, and and yet that journey just took me
Speaker 1: to a very very very very personal, very amid dialogue
Speaker 1: with myself. And out of that, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I came to discover that there is um the language
Speaker 1: of the heart. When I call it, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: tearing up as I think about it, because it's very
Speaker 1: personal and very raw still, and I really it is like, okay,
Speaker 1: so if that's not what life is, you know, by
Speaker 1: measuring your success based on this and this and this
Speaker 1: and mind you, I am proud of I'm grateful for
Speaker 1: the things I've accomplished in life, but that we're not
Speaker 1: you know, but how I went about it, how I
Speaker 1: drove myself all the way to the ground, how I
Speaker 1: compromised my well being and health and all of that
Speaker 1: before the cause that would you know, That's what hit me.
Speaker 1: It's like, what then? Then? What is life? And what
Speaker 1: is the essence of life? And you know what came
Speaker 1: is it profound connections to my heart, to my nature,
Speaker 1: which I feel like was my cheerleader. It helped me
Speaker 1: walk again and breathe again and to the divine. And
Speaker 1: I decided to dedicate my life to do anything and
Speaker 1: everything I can do for this earth because I feel
Speaker 1: I owe it to earth and to contributing and always
Speaker 1: I know how to helping, connecting to our hearts, to
Speaker 1: each other and to the world to a new way
Speaker 1: in a different way. And what I ultimately came out
Speaker 1: of is that as we as I'm an activist, at
Speaker 1: the core of me, I'm I'm here to be in service.
Speaker 1: I'm convinced that this is my purpose in this world,
Speaker 1: but that being in service to a cause should not
Speaker 1: always require us to sacrifice ourselves. But there is another
Speaker 1: way to value life and to community and love and
Speaker 1: kindness and friendships, um and not sacrifices, and with the
Speaker 1: goal of making a difference in in other aspects of
Speaker 1: our lives. So that's what Redefined is about. Conversations with
Speaker 1: people to learn from them at the turning moments in
Speaker 1: their lives and what they have learned about the essence
Speaker 1: of life itself. Well, well, I'll look forward to that.
Speaker 1: And it's so powerful just to hear you talk about it,
Speaker 1: because it is so true that sometimes when we are
Speaker 1: in those moments of not knowing what's going to happen next,
Speaker 1: we really get profound insights. And you're obviously sharing that
Speaker 1: with us, and you will enable others to do that
Speaker 1: as well. We're just about out of times, zay neb
Speaker 1: And this has been so rich, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: as a last question, I could just ask you about
Speaker 1: how you see our world today. There is so much turmoil.
Speaker 1: We are still going through the horrible impacts of COVID,
Speaker 1: the wars continue. What gives you hope, what keeps you going?
Speaker 1: Is it the insights that you just shared with us, parshally,
Speaker 1: That is the insight that I shared and partially glad.
Speaker 1: You know. I my country, my country of origin, Iraq, destroyed, right,
Speaker 1: it's destroyed my I haven't seen my family nine years.
Speaker 1: I didn't see my family nine years and all that.
Speaker 1: And I look, um, I look at my life, just
Speaker 1: my personal life and my personal encounters with life, right,
Speaker 1: people who lived in wars and all of that, and
Speaker 1: and I look my own near death experience, and what
Speaker 1: I came to learn from ultimately is to trust life,
Speaker 1: to trust life. And so you know, if we are
Speaker 1: to go back to my own home country, Iraq, there
Speaker 1: has been an amazing youth revolution in Iraq. So I
Speaker 1: trust youth and they could give me hope and optimism.
Speaker 1: I trust women. You know that we have we're living
Speaker 1: in an era is so exciting that women are not
Speaker 1: about to step back, you know, and that's exciting. I
Speaker 1: trust that. I trust their women's voices and fiercest, fierce nessness.
Speaker 1: I trust, I trust life. I don't not to say
Speaker 1: I trust life, And so I know things don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're still right and wrong, and I still have to
Speaker 1: act on the wrongs and do everything I can on it.
Speaker 1: And now I believe that goodness shall triumph and hope
Speaker 1: shall triumph, and at the end of the day, love
Speaker 1: is bigger than all. I just believe that I and
Speaker 1: I'm a witness of that in my personal life and
Speaker 1: in the lives of people I worked with. So that
Speaker 1: keeps me going. And I'm not exaggerating in what I'm
Speaker 1: about to say. It keeps me going to know there
Speaker 1: are women like hu Milan and are very serious who
Speaker 1: lives with so much integrity and dedication and purpose and
Speaker 1: love and sharing and support. You know when they are
Speaker 1: people like that in the world. Of course, we have
Speaker 1: to stay optimistic and believing that it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: It's it's the turmoil of the moment. It's hard, but
Speaker 1: it's also leading to some good changes, and I'm optimistic
Speaker 1: about that changes to calm well, Zane have. I wish
Speaker 1: we could go on talking for a lot longer, but
Speaker 1: we're all so grateful to you, and I know that
Speaker 1: our listeners will be inspired by what you said and
Speaker 1: for giving us that powerful message your life's experience and
Speaker 1: your insights about what matters, because in the end, that
Speaker 1: is what truly does matter. So thank you so so much,
Speaker 1: zane Ev Salvey for your example and for all that
Speaker 1: you do and will continue to do to make the
Speaker 1: world a better place. Thank you, thank you, laugh, thank
Speaker 1: you very very much. It's impossible not to be inspired
Speaker 1: and energized by zane Ev Salvey. Here are three things
Speaker 1: I took from that conversation. First, Zaneov says that if
Speaker 1: you want to know how a country is doing politically
Speaker 1: and economically, look at how it treats its men. That
Speaker 1: will give you an indication of how conditions are for everyone.
Speaker 1: And if you look at Afghanistan today, where women are
Speaker 1: once again being repressed by the Taliban, you'll get a
Speaker 1: clear idea of where that country is headed. Second, despite
Speaker 1: setbacks and places like Afghanistan, zeb has great hope for
Speaker 1: the future. Century, she says, is the feminist century. More
Speaker 1: than ever, women are speaking up for their rights, They
Speaker 1: know their power, and they won't go backward. Finally, zav
Speaker 1: reminds us that no matter how much we accomplish, each
Speaker 1: of us needs to have a dialogue with ourselves to
Speaker 1: determine what we need for our own well being and health.
Speaker 1: She calls that the language of the heart, and it's
Speaker 1: a language we can all learn to speak. Tune in
Speaker 1: next Thursday to hear about our next featured woman and
Speaker 1: discover why she's one of Seneca's Women to Hear. Seneca's
Speaker 1: one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support
Speaker 1: from founding partner PNG Have a Great Day.