Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
Speaker 1: live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New
Speaker 1: York and Eva though in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech Coming up.
Speaker 3: Microsoft and in video commit to invest up to fifteen
Speaker 3: billion dollars combined in AI startup Anthropic. This is Saudi
Speaker 3: Arabia's Crown Prince is set to discuss tech investments and
Speaker 3: AI innovation with President Trump today, and gaming giant Roadblocks
Speaker 3: takes steps to expand age verification across its platform.
Speaker 2: We'll discuss with the CEO, but.
Speaker 3: First we check in on these markets once again. Under pressure,
Speaker 3: the nasdack off by one point seven percent. That we
Speaker 3: have eraised one point eight trillion dollars from this benchmark
Speaker 3: since the end of October, in large part because some
Speaker 3: of the key AI players have been on the downside.
Speaker 3: Bitcoin no recovers ever, so slightly uppercentage for we're in
Speaker 3: NY two eight hundred and forty six. Move on to
Speaker 3: individual movers because it's all around some of our top
Speaker 3: story today cloud flaw. We want to check in and
Speaker 3: we're down three percent. That's after it's been fixed. But
Speaker 3: we were struggling to get onto NJ Transit, you are
Speaker 3: struggling to get onto open AI's chatch ept, you are
Speaker 3: struggling to get onto many A website because of cloud
Speaker 3: flare more broadly, and that's as we saw an outage
Speaker 3: that now they say has been fixed. We're still off
Speaker 3: by three percent. Let's talk about, though, the top story
Speaker 3: that we just mentioned, Microsoft and Nvidia both committing to
Speaker 3: invest up to a combined fifteen billion dollars in Anthropic,
Speaker 3: and a move that ties the AI developer closer to
Speaker 3: the biggest backers of its rival, open Ai. Lumg's AI
Speaker 3: editor Seth Bieman joins us some more, it's a tough
Speaker 3: time to be announcing that you're going to be buying
Speaker 3: cloud from one company. Well, they're going to be investing
Speaker 3: equity in another.
Speaker 2: Just more circular deals.
Speaker 4: It feels like this one feels very clearly following the
Speaker 4: opening eyeplaybook that we've been seeing in recent weeks. Here, Yes,
Speaker 4: I think Anthropic is taking money from Microsoft and Nvidia.
Speaker 4: Microsoft it's in the Anthropic then plans to commit spending
Speaker 4: to Microsoft's platform using Nvidia chips. Kind of textbook here,
Speaker 4: and I think we'll add to some of the anxiety there,
Speaker 4: but it is on a big of a smaller scale. Also,
Speaker 4: our understanding at this point is that this financing is
Speaker 4: part of a larger investment round to be announced at
Speaker 4: some in determined time. So tbd how much Anthropic is
Speaker 4: actually planning to bring in here.
Speaker 2: I mean they already just closed around that valued.
Speaker 3: Them at more than one hundred and eighty.
Speaker 4: The new normal. That's a bottomless need and everyone is
Speaker 4: tapping everyone else. All the ships have to rise together
Speaker 4: or else they fail.
Speaker 3: But what's interesting is Amazon had to make clear that
Speaker 3: they're still the number one provider of cloud and of
Speaker 3: training compute to Anthropic. Everyone seems to be an Anthropic now,
Speaker 3: But how are we seeing that rival that likes of
Speaker 3: open Ai.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean again, this is not going to either
Speaker 4: or a model. It's a yes. And you know, I
Speaker 4: think we've seen open Ai turned to anthropics backers, namely
Speaker 4: Google and Amazon, so Anthropic is doing the same.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of intrigue there about what that means
Speaker 4: about the Microsoft opening our relationship. But again, at this moment,
Speaker 4: everyone is tapping everyone else until the music stops.
Speaker 3: And the music has been sounding a little jerky of late.
Speaker 3: I mean, certainly in the public sector people have been
Speaker 3: worrying about these circularity deals on the actual productivity gains
Speaker 3: that we might ever get with AI, That's right.
Speaker 4: I do think Anthropic, though, has messaged clearly in the
Speaker 4: last week or so that while they're kind of playing
Speaker 4: the Opening I playbook here, we're investing heavily in infrastructure,
Speaker 4: in chips, building out more, we're doing it on a
Speaker 4: smaller scale now. As I said, the last time I
Speaker 4: was on fifteen twenty fifty billion dollars. These are massive sums,
Speaker 4: but when compared to Opening Eyes one point four trillion,
Speaker 4: a bit more measured.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: We've also got other breaking news today from LLM innovations
Speaker 3: and improvements, this time coming from Alphabet. Shares R under
Speaker 3: a pressure down two point three percent, but they rallied
Speaker 3: hard yesterday because we know Berkshire.
Speaker 2: Halfaway is getting into Alphabet.
Speaker 3: But now we've got Gemini three and it seems to
Speaker 3: actually be really rather good.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 4: So at the same time that Google has been helping
Speaker 4: Anthropic and Open AI, they're also still trying to be
Speaker 4: the best model on the market, and so I think
Speaker 4: with Gemini three they're really touting their gains encoding and
Speaker 4: in mimicking the process human reasoning. Obviously, those are key
Speaker 4: aspects for Anthropic and for Opening Eye as well. Interestingly,
Speaker 4: the GENERI I three model also offers a more premium tier.
Speaker 4: I think it's two hundred and fifty dollars something like
Speaker 4: that amount that you get to do even more intense
Speaker 4: reasoning where you can test different hypotheses and we'll see,
Speaker 4: but they're all competing with the same kind of benchmark
Speaker 4: claims here to try to be the dominant force.
Speaker 3: And will we have news of LM's getting ever more sophisticated.
Speaker 3: We're able to code, We're able to vibe code, and
Speaker 3: your team has been so busy because vibe coding startup Lovable,
Speaker 3: which is actually a European startup, seems to be expanding
Speaker 3: and maybe even getting a really high valuation too.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's really probably the most promising or
Speaker 4: one of the two most promising coming out of Europe
Speaker 4: right now. A lot of the vibe coding leaders are
Speaker 4: from the US, including Cursor, and you can argue Anthropic
Speaker 4: and others. I think Level has seem pretty strong organic
Speaker 4: demand and pretty promising growth in recurring revenue. But this
Speaker 4: is a crowded market and if Google's model changes the
Speaker 4: game overnight for coding capabilities, that might have disruptions further
Speaker 4: on down the line.
Speaker 2: It's very much to be seen.
Speaker 3: Two hundred million dollars annual recurring revenue and according to sources,
Speaker 3: a six billion dollar valuation.
Speaker 2: We have the CEO and a little.
Speaker 3: Bit later Seth amazing wrap up of all things AI,
Speaker 3: Seth Fiegerman, of course, who helps edit across that team.
Speaker 2: Let's turn to Washington.
Speaker 3: Now, guess what we're talking about, AI, but with the
Speaker 3: Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed Vin Sulman. Here's at the
Speaker 3: White House today meeting President Trump. We know the talks
Speaker 3: about deepening US Saudi ties, but really there is such
Speaker 3: a focus on tech, on investment, on innovation, as Digital
Speaker 3: Wi begs Tyler Kendall joining us from the White House.
Speaker 3: A lot of it's going to be about chip access.
Speaker 7: Right exactly, Caroline, and good morning to you. No doubt
Speaker 7: access to critical chip technology is going to be at
Speaker 7: the top of the agenda today. As Saudi Arabia has
Speaker 7: faced US restriction since twenty twenty three, in part over
Speaker 7: the Kingdom's ties to Beijing. Now, I will point out
Speaker 7: that when President Trump visited Saudi Arabia back in May,
Speaker 7: the two countries announced a slew of investment commitments related
Speaker 7: to AI, related to data centers that are going to
Speaker 7: come to rely on access to these advanced semiconductors. But
Speaker 7: six months has gone by and we have yet to
Speaker 7: see the US greenlight those export licenses. Now, people familiar
Speaker 7: tell us here at Bloomberg News that the two sides
Speaker 7: are still hashing out one the security conditions for these
Speaker 7: shipments and two these specific reciprocal investments that RIOD is
Speaker 7: going to commit to making when it comes to making
Speaker 7: good on their pledge for six hundred billion dollars in
Speaker 7: US investments over the next four years. Now, perhaps adding
Speaker 7: to the pressure here is that we know that recently
Speaker 7: the UAES saw some of its export licenses green light
Speaker 7: when it comes to projects run by US companies there.
Speaker 7: But Caroline, this really does dovetail into the other key
Speaker 7: part of the conversations today, which has to do with defense.
Speaker 7: We are watching closely whether or not the two countries
Speaker 7: enter into a defense Mutual Cooperation pact, and also those
Speaker 7: F thirty five's that President Trump indicated that he will
Speaker 7: allow the sale of Of course, this comes back to
Speaker 7: the chip conversation, because there are concerns here also about
Speaker 7: whether or not China could have access to this advanced
Speaker 7: technology in these fighter chets. Caroline, I'll end on this.
Speaker 7: It's absolutely packed here in Washington. We're expecting tech leaders
Speaker 7: from across the country to descend, in world, to descend here,
Speaker 7: all leading up to tomorrow's US Saudi LNE Investment Summit
Speaker 7: at the Kennedy Center here in Washington.
Speaker 3: And we await that arrival of MBS to the White House.
Speaker 3: Tyler Kendall, thank you very much. Indeed, let's get the
Speaker 3: wider investor perspective here, please say. Margi Btella is with
Speaker 3: US all Spring Global Investment, senior portfolio manager, head of
Speaker 3: capital Allocation, and we are thinking about how global narrative
Speaker 3: around AI continues to develop.
Speaker 2: Have you got any worries.
Speaker 3: That we've been seeing, at least in the pressure.
Speaker 2: In the stock market of ly.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 8: I think this is a little garden variety correction because
Speaker 8: we've had a few wobbles bad news in the private
Speaker 8: credit market. I think they we'll have maybe five percent correction.
Speaker 2: I think the year.
Speaker 8: We'll finish on a very very strong note because really
Speaker 8: the trend for artificial intelligence is so strong for data centers.
Speaker 8: In fact, when you look at the companies that have commented,
Speaker 8: basically they don't have enough capacity for all the demand,
Speaker 8: and they've been able to raise prices. So that doesn't
Speaker 8: sound to me like a peak of a market that's
Speaker 8: very to collapse or all.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to go out to some sound that
Speaker 3: we heard a little bit earlier in a summit that
Speaker 3: Bloomberg has been having over in Africa. They have the
Speaker 3: JP Morgan vice chairman joining Tavipinto.
Speaker 2: Just listen what he said about a correction is possible.
Speaker 9: There is probably a correction there, and that correction will
Speaker 9: also create a correction in the rest of the segments
Speaker 9: in the SMPN, in the industry, because you are probably
Speaker 9: in order to justify these valuations, you are considering a
Speaker 9: level of productivity. That it will happen, but it may
Speaker 9: not have been as fast as the market is pricing.
Speaker 3: Daniel Pinto there, JP Morgan, just speaking with our own
Speaker 3: editor over in Africa today, Margie, and I'm really interested
Speaker 3: as to well, why you think this will just be
Speaker 3: I think a garden variety correction. What will be there
Speaker 3: to support it will be in Vidia's numbers that get
Speaker 3: us back on track.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm not sure anything in Vidia could say will
Speaker 8: be enough to assuage market concerns. But really, when you
Speaker 8: look at the big market corrections, the economic corrections, they've
Speaker 8: all been driven by frankly, Federal Reserve activity, whether when
Speaker 8: they start to aggressively raise rates. So right here it
Speaker 8: looks you could say, well, the fit is somewhere between
Speaker 8: neutral to slightly easing, and again that is not the precondition.
Speaker 8: I think we've been through so many of these cycles,
Speaker 8: all driven by the FED, that we think it's natural
Speaker 8: that we should have a big downward correction, and I
Speaker 8: don't think we will. I think we'll just have a
Speaker 8: continued period of slow growth for most of the economy.
Speaker 8: The tech sector is very strong because artificial intelligence is
Speaker 8: really a qualitative leap in the kind of technology that
Speaker 8: we've had over the last several decades. So we think
Speaker 8: it's just a small correction. In fact, if you look
Speaker 8: at Nvidia, the stock really for this quarter the fourth
Speaker 8: quarter is really just about flatish, and all they are
Speaker 8: except for Googles, only one that's up for the quarter,
Speaker 8: So that says to me there's a lot of nervousness
Speaker 8: waiting for it in Video. But I think after that
Speaker 8: clear as a year, I think we'll have a strong
Speaker 8: finish because the fundamentals are still so strong as far
Speaker 8: as the I can see, which I would say is
Speaker 8: at least for another year or so.
Speaker 3: And we look at you today in video up thirty
Speaker 3: five percent, but it has erode it about half a
Speaker 3: trillion dollars of market cap since the end of October, Margie.
Speaker 2: So is that a buying opportunity, Well.
Speaker 10: I think it's.
Speaker 8: I think it's a moderate opportunity, yes, because at least
Speaker 8: you have some of a discount. The pe is around
Speaker 8: forty times, and that's higher than the average stock which
Speaker 8: is around twenty seven times. But on the other hand,
Speaker 8: their leaders in their sector, they should have an above
Speaker 8: average growth as far as the guy can see, so
Speaker 8: it's really not as high priced as it was relatively
Speaker 8: a few months ago.
Speaker 2: So I'd say, yes, it's a.
Speaker 8: Good time to add to in video because their fundamental
Speaker 8: position is really strong. I think it's just as I said,
Speaker 8: market nervousness. Short term traders have gotten badly whipsawed back
Speaker 8: and forth in the last couple of months, and I
Speaker 8: think that's what's we're all causing this downward wave, involved
Speaker 8: orly giving us.
Speaker 2: The longer term perspective. We always so appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Margie Patel of all Spring Global Investments, Stay well, see
Speaker 3: you soon we home. Meanwhile, coming up, gaming giant Roadblock
Speaker 3: takes steps to expand age verification across its platform. We'll
Speaker 3: discuss the details of Roblox CEO Dave Zuki.
Speaker 2: That's next. This is a Blume meg Tech.
Speaker 3: Roadblocks and as we've going rolling out age verification technology
Speaker 3: for all users and is introducing age based chat as
Speaker 3: the gaming platform expands safety features with further parental resources too.
Speaker 3: Roblox CEO Dave Zuki joins us now and Dave. This
Speaker 3: really builds on that big, ambitious September announcement.
Speaker 2: How is this going to be rolling out?
Speaker 10: Hey?
Speaker 11: Great to be here and what an enormous responsibility. With
Speaker 11: one hundred and fifty million users every day coming to
Speaker 11: the platform, We're rolling out what we believe will be
Speaker 11: the goal old standard for the future of Internet safety.
Speaker 11: We're the first really major gaming platform to use AI
Speaker 11: to estimate the age of everyone on the platform who
Speaker 11: wants to use chat and communicate. We're going to start
Speaker 11: rolling this out in December and then it'll be should
Speaker 11: be all rolled out by January. Basically, on whatever device
Speaker 11: you're on, take a quick image, will analyze your age
Speaker 11: with AI, complement it with a bunch of other signals,
Speaker 11: and use that really to figure out who who might
Speaker 11: you be chatting with. To keep the platform more safe,
Speaker 11: we're not going to be allowing minors, for example, to
Speaker 11: communicate with people who are adults, and we're going to
Speaker 11: roll it out to everyone on the platform.
Speaker 3: I'm really interested as to how you're going to measure
Speaker 3: success here, Dave, because in many ways you're trying to
Speaker 3: prove a negative. But how are you going to be
Speaker 3: internally thinking this has worked, people are satisfied and they're safe.
Speaker 11: Well, I want to highlight things are already working in
Speaker 11: that we're a very unique platform, and that we filter
Speaker 11: all of the text and communication on our platform. We
Speaker 11: don't allow the sharing of images, we have monitoring for
Speaker 11: critical harms, We work very closely with law enforcement. So
Speaker 11: I see this as an addition to everything we're doing
Speaker 11: and really to our vision of what we've been calling
Speaker 11: the gold standard, but we do estimate over the next
Speaker 11: few months will will know roughly the age of everyone
Speaker 11: on the platform, and we'll complement that with some of
Speaker 11: the other things we do, like trusted connections and things
Speaker 11: like that to constantly build on our innovation. You know,
Speaker 11: we've shipped over one hundred safety innovations in the last year,
Speaker 11: so it's really a continuation of that focus.
Speaker 3: You're using a third party vendor persona, I believe, and
Speaker 3: how are you going to be ensuring that that's robust
Speaker 3: enough the AI The underlying technology is we're bust enough
Speaker 3: ever in the UK well from the using Discord for example,
Speaker 3: managed to bypass previous facial recognition age verification tests.
Speaker 11: There's a bunch of other signals we have in addition
Speaker 11: to the facial age estimation, and we do have the
Speaker 11: ability to estimate several times if we need to so,
Speaker 11: so in addition to using the camera to do an
Speaker 11: age check, we have other ways to validate and putting
Speaker 11: all of these signals together, we believe is pretty robust.
Speaker 3: Really, what's so interesting is clearly you're here with safety
Speaker 3: as a priority. You did mention back in the earnings
Speaker 3: your CFO in particular that maybe you'll see some friction,
Speaker 3: maybe the numbers, the revenue, the growth might be impacted
Speaker 3: as people start to have to verify their age, maybe
Speaker 3: slower to come and adopt.
Speaker 2: Do you think that that will bear out? How will
Speaker 2: it look longer term?
Speaker 11: We shared this vision that we believe over ten percent
Speaker 11: of the global gaming market, which is somewhere between a
Speaker 11: one hundred and eighty and two hundred billion dollar market,
Speaker 11: is going to be running on roadblocks. And in the
Speaker 11: earnings call we just had, we shared this amazing growth
Speaker 11: both on bookings and DAUS in the seventy percent year
Speaker 11: on year rate. Long term, we believe this is just
Speaker 11: the right thing for the platform. We're unique and that
Speaker 11: we have all ages. We have people under thirteen, over
Speaker 11: thirteen or over thirteen is growing rapidly. This is the
Speaker 11: right long term vision and we're really optimistic about continuing
Speaker 11: our growth.
Speaker 3: Okay, so this is the right balance from your perspective,
Speaker 3: What do you think the data will bear out as
Speaker 3: to the name, well, ultimately the actual ages of people
Speaker 3: you have using it.
Speaker 2: Do you think you have more under thirteen's you anticipated?
Speaker 2: Do you think you have more older users?
Speaker 11: We can't estimate that exactly. What I can say is
Speaker 11: that our the facial age estimation tech we're going to
Speaker 11: use is pretty reasonable and pretty accurate. I've tried it,
Speaker 11: some of my kids have tried it. We've tried it
Speaker 11: within our staff meeting. So I think we're going to
Speaker 11: find out we're reasonably close. But over time we will
Speaker 11: get a better signal on everyone's age.
Speaker 3: And this must be something that marked is that those
Speaker 3: that eventually we're buying more ads with roadblocks are going
Speaker 3: to be looking at is this going to help well
Speaker 3: inject some fuel to that offering because people will feel
Speaker 3: safer about what age group can be consuming such efforts.
Speaker 11: We have shared a couple things. You know, we don't
Speaker 11: target under eighteen already on the platform, but there's an
Speaker 11: enormous number of older users joining the platform. We shared
Speaker 11: in our earnings call I believe in Q four like
Speaker 11: we're literally earn qth running at over ten billion hours
Speaker 11: a month of engagement. That's an amazing amount of engagement.
Speaker 11: Our economy is primarily driven right now by our virtual
Speaker 11: economy powered by Robucks, but advertising is a wonderful compliment,
Speaker 11: and you're right, we're going to have a better more
Speaker 11: accurate estimate of everyone's age, which for a lot of
Speaker 11: our advertisers that are starting to hop on with events
Speaker 11: supporting all kinds of things, beauty products, movies, things like that,
Speaker 11: they'll have a better idea of really the number of
Speaker 11: people over eighteen on our platform.
Speaker 3: Reblock CEO David Zuki on their latest safety updates.
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you joining the show today. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Now, coming up, we're going to be speaking with a
Speaker 3: Lovable CEO, Anton Asika, as the company is said to
Speaker 3: be nearing a six billion dollar valuation. This is bloom
Speaker 3: bag tech AI coding startup Lovable. It's set to hit
Speaker 3: a six billion dollar valuation. That's according to sources. The
Speaker 3: company is seeing rapid growth, reaching two hundred million dollars
Speaker 3: in annual recurring revenue and expanding with new offices in
Speaker 3: Boston and San Francisco. Joining us now to discuss Anton Aseka,
Speaker 3: CEO of Lovable, Anton, I go to the numbers that
Speaker 3: you've actually given to us, the two hundred million dollars,
Speaker 3: the annual revenue run rate, that's a lot who's purchasing.
Speaker 6: So we're seeing Lovable since we launched just twelve months ago.
Speaker 6: Empowered by this consumer and prosumer movement of individuals that
Speaker 6: use the product and then they love it so they
Speaker 6: put in their credit card. And that's just the movement
Speaker 6: that's then translated to us being pulled into the enterprise
Speaker 6: where Fortune five hundred companies like Klarna, HCA Healthcare, they're
Speaker 6: transforming how they work on top of a completely new
Speaker 6: weight to build the software, software products, and even software
Speaker 6: companies on top of the products that are being.
Speaker 2: Built two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 3: In terms of what you're saying annual revenue run rate,
Speaker 3: you're seeing, as you say, a breadth of enterprise adoption
Speaker 3: and individual entrepreneurialism. But when it comes to vibe coding
Speaker 3: and the use cases, where are you having to build
Speaker 3: out your building offices in America, it would see.
Speaker 10: Yeah, and that's great.
Speaker 6: What we're seeing is that love is providing a lot
Speaker 6: of value in large companies moving faster, and many of
Speaker 6: those companies are in the US. So we have great
Speaker 6: leadership that has built companies at the largest stage. Before
Speaker 6: Ryan Meadows skilled Eclavio, he's not joining.
Speaker 10: Building out from where he's based in Boston.
Speaker 6: We have Maria and Kobe who joined from notion she's
Speaker 6: moving with her family to Stockholm.
Speaker 10: I think that says a lot.
Speaker 6: While we keep the core headquarters here in Stockholm, as
Speaker 6: we expand globally on the mission, which is simply to
Speaker 6: reimagine how software is built and who gets to build it,
Speaker 6: and it's initnessing a once in a generation democratization of
Speaker 6: the software creation.
Speaker 2: The pace is extraordinary. It's only four months ago.
Speaker 3: It's only back in July that you mentioned that you've
Speaker 3: got one hundred million dollar and your revenue run rate.
Speaker 3: Now that's doubled. You are, we understand looking for funding.
Speaker 3: You could have a six billion dollar valuation. Can you
Speaker 3: comment on how much you were needing to have yet
Speaker 3: further capital to finance this expansion.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Krolyn, I'm not here to talk about any fundraising
Speaker 6: that hasn't happened, but what I can say is that
Speaker 6: the momentum is absolutely astounding and it's increasing. There are
Speaker 6: one hundred thousand new projects built on Lovable every single day.
Speaker 6: And what's was growing even faster is how much traffic
Speaker 6: the meaningful applications and businesses built on Lovable are gathering.
Speaker 10: We're seeing we're seeing five million visits.
Speaker 6: The level websites per day That doubled in just the
Speaker 6: last two months, and some part of that is us
Speaker 6: building out and just reimagining how does the entire life
Speaker 6: cycle of building a software product look like. We launched
Speaker 6: Lovable's cloud and AI offering two months ago and that
Speaker 6: has resulted in almost thirty percent of all the applications
Speaker 6: built having AI included. Even though they're built without a
Speaker 6: software engineer, they're built by the ninety nine percent who
Speaker 6: don't go and then starting to collaborate with engineers. If
Speaker 6: they're being built in large companies in the same platform.
Speaker 3: What are your costs? Where are you having to spend more?
Speaker 3: Is it talent?
Speaker 2: Is it compute? Is it?
Speaker 3: What is it that you are going to build within
Speaker 3: your business model?
Speaker 6: So when someone asks Lovable to build them and your
Speaker 6: software or just a presentation and demonstration of something that
Speaker 6: they think the business should be doing, we are of
Speaker 6: course consuming compute to power the AI and that costs
Speaker 6: a significant amount. But Lovable has healthy unit economics and
Speaker 6: now what we're looking to do is to just do
Speaker 6: everything we can to drive as much value for all
Speaker 6: of our customers, and that's going to require us to
Speaker 6: invest in the new offices that we're opening and to
Speaker 6: take care and teach customers that are using levelble how
Speaker 6: to get the most value out of the product.
Speaker 3: And when you hear the anxiety in the public markets
Speaker 3: that companies are overinvesting, so we're not seeing the AI
Speaker 3: rewards yet in the timeframe that we need to for
Speaker 3: the amount of money that's going on happital expenditure.
Speaker 2: What do you say to that?
Speaker 6: So when AI initiatives are being pushed into a company
Speaker 6: top down, then I think there is often a risk
Speaker 6: that the expectation is wrong.
Speaker 10: Someone hasn't used the tools themselves.
Speaker 6: What we're seeing with Lovable is that it's all being
Speaker 6: adopted bottoms up. So people come to the web Lovable
Speaker 6: website and they build an application, publish it online or
Speaker 6: privately to their own company, and then they see value
Speaker 6: and then they start paying. So I think there's a
Speaker 6: a lot of different things happening in AI, and if
Speaker 6: you're considering making buying decisions, you should yourself use the
Speaker 6: technology and understand yourself how it can affect your business
Speaker 6: outcomes or your personal personal life. And we've at Lovable,
Speaker 6: we're seeing companies like Microsoft Klarna a large part of
Speaker 6: fortunate one hundred companies adopting this new demo memo where
Speaker 6: anyone in the company build software to take the company forward.
Speaker 2: Demo do memo.
Speaker 3: Wonderful to say, being born Ata Sweden, expanding here in
Speaker 3: the United States. Leveable CEO, anton Asika. We thank you
Speaker 3: so much for your time today. Now, another key story
Speaker 3: we're all digesting is Microsoft and Vidia announcing investment combined
Speaker 3: fifteen billion dollars into Anthropic. In return, Anthropik will be
Speaker 3: committing to purchase thirty billion dollars of computing capacity for
Speaker 3: Microsoft as your cloud service man Deep Seing and Boomberg
Speaker 3: Intelligence breaking down what is again a circular deal here,
Speaker 3: but it seems as though this could really be rivaling
Speaker 3: open Ai.
Speaker 12: Well, so the way I look at it is everyone
Speaker 12: is looking to diversify. So in the case of Nvidia,
Speaker 12: they want a long tail of cloud players for their chips.
Speaker 12: In the case of Microsoft, they want to go beyond
Speaker 12: open Ai, and you know, diversify into different lllms. And
Speaker 12: because there are so few frontier LLM providers, I mean,
Speaker 12: Nthropic is the obvious choice. You can't really invest in
Speaker 12: Google or metas LM. So from that perspective, it makes
Speaker 12: sense that they are looking for diversification. But look in
Speaker 12: the end, when you look at you know, the deployment
Speaker 12: of these lms, there is no doubt that you know,
Speaker 12: Gemini just release their Gemini three llms, so the progress
Speaker 12: is there. It's just for Microsoft because they don't have
Speaker 12: their own LLLM. It makes sense that you know, they
Speaker 12: are investing in Entropic and really making sure they have
Speaker 12: you know, someone beyond open Ai to look up to
Speaker 12: be because that contract expires in twenty thirty two, so
Speaker 12: they're really playing the long game here.
Speaker 3: And then playing the long game for compute demand as well.
Speaker 3: How important is that thirty billion dollars to the overall
Speaker 3: business model?
Speaker 12: I mean Microsoft has a backlog of four hundred billion
Speaker 12: dollars with a two year duration, so they already have
Speaker 12: a ton of visibility. This thirty billions is sort of
Speaker 12: an increment to that. And that's where you know, they
Speaker 12: have really differentiated from the other hyperscale cloud providers with
Speaker 12: their backlog, with their shorter duration, and with the visibility
Speaker 12: and revenue they have from you know, just the GPU
Speaker 12: and AI workloads compared to all other cloud providers. So
Speaker 12: from that perspective. This kind of helps their revenue visibility
Speaker 12: at least for the next two to three.
Speaker 3: Years and keep seeing Blueberg Intelligence. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Amid all the talk of this AI investment venture investors,
Speaker 3: they are focused on two key things, picking the right
Speaker 3: startups sort of intertwined AI and helping portfolio companies make
Speaker 3: the most of the technology. Hillary goesher is with us
Speaker 3: managing directorate Insight Partners, where she oversees these considerations the
Speaker 3: VCPE firm. It's got ninety billion dollars regulatory assets under management. Hillary,
Speaker 3: I'm so pleasing you're here to talk us.
Speaker 2: Through what you have. You are in charge in many ways.
Speaker 3: Of how AI is being adopted by your portfolio companies.
Speaker 3: You're all in on software in particular over Insight. How
Speaker 3: are companies making the most of it and really showing
Speaker 3: productivity gains?
Speaker 5: Caroline, thank you for having me on the show. So
Speaker 5: Insight is an investor that invests across stage. We invest
Speaker 5: from early stage startups, scale apps, grown ups once they
Speaker 5: go IPO. And you know, over the history of Insight,
Speaker 5: we've had fifty five RPOs companies that you would be
Speaker 5: aware of, Shopify, Monday and this year Hinge Health, and
Speaker 5: so we're very focused on making sure that we help
Speaker 5: build the best companies. And so this year we're celebrating
Speaker 5: twenty five years of Inside on Site, which is the
Speaker 5: team that works alongside portfolio companies helping them scale and grow.
Speaker 2: Because the one thing.
Speaker 5: That CEOs ask, which is what do you provide me?
Speaker 5: That's more than just capital, And the point is we
Speaker 5: provide expertise, we provide access, we provide talent so that
Speaker 5: they can really achieve their dreams. Just like you know,
Speaker 5: Antonadel lovable, I love Insight Onsite.
Speaker 3: That's actually twenty five years that you've been bringing this
Speaker 3: to bear. And what is it that you learn at
Speaker 3: the moment that leaders are needing of you? Where is
Speaker 3: the guidance making most impact?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we have an accelerator program because, as you mentioned,
Speaker 5: everything is changing with AI and we need our portfolio
Speaker 5: companies to keep up with the pace of change. There
Speaker 5: is a difference between those companies that are AI native
Speaker 5: and those are companies that are cloud native. Anton being
Speaker 5: you know, AI native, and how do we help our
Speaker 5: companies who are cloud native pivot and make that shift
Speaker 5: towards adopting AI. And really we think about it as
Speaker 5: our AI Accelerator and it starts with the CEO. So
Speaker 5: the CEO is the person that really needs to understand
Speaker 5: and adopt and drive the change and the transformation. So
Speaker 5: we bring CEOs into our AI Accelerator program. It's a
Speaker 5: six month program small cohorts of CEOs, and we help
Speaker 5: them think about two areas that they need to drive
Speaker 5: change in. The first is around AI in the product,
Speaker 5: So how are they building AI into their products that
Speaker 5: delight and deliver more value for customers? And then how
Speaker 5: are they adopting AI in their business so that they
Speaker 5: grow and scale more efficiently.
Speaker 3: When you're looking at I think you've got more than
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty dedicated professionals getting on site, getting
Speaker 3: really bedded in with these businesses and helping them accelerate.
Speaker 3: When they're thinking of just the top down approach, it
Speaker 3: becomes a talent question.
Speaker 2: How are you finding that.
Speaker 3: Being an area of bringing everyone on board, everyone wanting
Speaker 3: to adopt, everyone wanting to ensure that these pilots have
Speaker 3: been proven out to work.
Speaker 5: Yes, so there is a strong ground swell among employees
Speaker 5: to want to learn these tools. There is a fear
Speaker 5: as well on the other side, that if they don't
Speaker 5: learn the tools, that would they be disintermediated, would they
Speaker 5: not have jobs? Instead, what we're seeing is that AI
Speaker 5: is really augmenting people and making them more efficient and
Speaker 5: better able to do some of their jobs. I'll give
Speaker 5: you a great example. So one of our portfolio companies
Speaker 5: works in the airline industry. They sell security and training
Speaker 5: software to large airlines. There are more than seven thousand
Speaker 5: incidents that are tracked day, types of incidents that attract today,
Speaker 5: whether an aeroplane is on the ground, in the air,
Speaker 5: on takeoff, fun landing, taxing, and these are connected across
Speaker 5: thousands of airports every day. There is analysts to collect
Speaker 5: that information. It's an LM problem in the making. I mean,
Speaker 5: there's nothing better than a very large language model to
Speaker 5: be able to analyze all of this information and to
Speaker 5: really help those analysts provide the critical insights that keep
Speaker 5: aircraft in the air, keep passengers safe, and basically keep
Speaker 5: revenue flowing. So those analysts actually now feel like heroes,
Speaker 5: whereas before they were spending hours but also behind the
Speaker 5: times three weeks, four weeks before. Sometimes they got the
Speaker 5: data and were able to produce the insights. So in
Speaker 5: some ways, AI is really augmenting and helping them up
Speaker 5: skill and making them the heroes of the situation.
Speaker 3: And that's really about organic growth there. I think of
Speaker 3: the expertise that you have learned over your career when
Speaker 3: it comes to inorganic as well, and some of the
Speaker 3: acquisitions that have been made of your portfolio companies into
Speaker 3: bigger companies. But how much are you seeing the AARI
Speaker 3: is a talent acquisition story and that companies portfolio companies
Speaker 3: are looking out to buy others at this moment.
Speaker 2: Is that something that you're helping guide through. Yes.
Speaker 5: I think it's interesting that you say that private equity
Speaker 5: has always been thought of as the domain for M
Speaker 5: and A, you know, buy and build, build a platform company,
Speaker 5: but we think of it as also a domain for
Speaker 5: venture capital. And the on site team has created and
Speaker 5: expertise to help our companies make those acquisitions for exactly
Speaker 5: as you say, either geographic expansion or potential new products
Speaker 5: to put in and for equi hires. And that is
Speaker 5: one of the ways that our companies are able to
Speaker 5: access some of this AI talent because these you know,
Speaker 5: new AI natives are starting AI first thinking companies and
Speaker 5: some of those companies are right for acquisition by some
Speaker 5: of our companies who are looking for their talent.
Speaker 3: It's fascinating to have thirty years of insight in twenty
Speaker 3: five years that you've been building this team of on
Speaker 3: site expertise. It's wonderful to have you here on the show.
Speaker 3: I hope you do come back soon. Hillary, of course,
Speaker 3: is over at Insight Partners. Hillary Gosha, Managing Director. There
Speaker 3: now coming up robots are doing more for law enforcement,
Speaker 3: but as police departments invest more in these machines, ethical
Speaker 3: questions are arising. 's next as a Bloomberg Tech, It's
Speaker 3: time now for talking tech and first up into It
Speaker 3: will spend more than one hundred million dollars on a
Speaker 3: multi year deal with open Ai, aiming to make its
Speaker 3: apps like TurboTax and QuickBooks more valuable with generator of
Speaker 3: AI for.
Speaker 2: The chatchbt maker. While the deal is part of a push.
Speaker 3: To get consumers and businesses to rely more on its
Speaker 3: AI tools plus I Do Will, It's posted its worst
Speaker 3: sales fall on record. The Chinese search Chinet has seen
Speaker 3: ad and marketing spend move to rival social apps.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, it's struggled to keep up in crowded.
Speaker 3: AI race ul Jaomi, which sold its first card just
Speaker 3: last year, is turning a profit from electric vehicle sales.
Speaker 3: The company's EV division posted a profit of approximately ninety
Speaker 3: eight million dollars in the September quarter.
Speaker 2: Shaomi plans to boost.
Speaker 3: Its EV production so it looks to compete with Tesla
Speaker 3: and byd.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: You may know this particular a mechanical dog we'll show
Speaker 3: you in a minute for its firal dance routines, but
Speaker 3: Boston Dynamics four legged robot Spot is also playing an
Speaker 3: increasing role in law enforcement. According to previously unreported news,
Speaker 3: more than sixty bomb squads and swap teams across the US.
Speaker 2: And Canada are now using Spot.
Speaker 3: Our consumer tech reporters Samantha Kelly joins US Now for
Speaker 3: more and sam, I mean, how is this being adopted in?
Speaker 2: What situations? Are we seeing them really take these on? Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is really fascinating.
Speaker 13: So we've seen some headlines over the years of Spot
Speaker 13: showing up maybe at a crime scene, but now we're
Speaker 13: getting new data from Boston Dynamics that shows more law
Speaker 13: enforcement units across the US and Canada are implementing bringing
Speaker 13: these robotic dogs into their forces to help out in
Speaker 13: hostage situations or chemical materials that are sensitive, like going
Speaker 13: in to see if something is hazardous. Basically to prevent
Speaker 13: law enforcement from entering somewhere. This dog can go win,
Speaker 13: it can climb stairs, it can open doors. It basically
Speaker 13: acts as a separate set of eyes. There's a live
Speaker 13: camera feed, so an operator standing quite far away from
Speaker 13: a scene can go in assess the situation, and more
Speaker 13: law enforcement units, Like I said, over sixty now in
Speaker 13: the US, but also we're seeing it overseas. Police in
Speaker 13: Italy are also using it the Dutch ministry and it
Speaker 13: still remains quite popular and manufacturing and other facilities as well.
Speaker 3: They aren't cheap, starting at one hundred thousand dollars, so
Speaker 3: the reward needs to be large. But what about some
Speaker 3: of the ethical implications here, Soum briefly.
Speaker 13: Yeah, so it starts at one hundred thousand dollars, to
Speaker 13: your point that it can go way up from that.
Speaker 13: We're seeing two hundred and fifty thousand in some situations.
Speaker 13: But yes, ethical implifications here calling for more regulation around
Speaker 13: this from the state and even federal level down the line.
Speaker 13: You know, Boston Dynamics has some rules in place, but
Speaker 13: perhaps some community guidelines are needed as well. Also, a
Speaker 13: lot of law enforcement units can't afford these different devices,
Speaker 13: so there's some you know, talking around that as well.
Speaker 13: So just really people trying to get used to seeing,
Speaker 13: you know, something like this at a crime scene or
Speaker 13: at a situation. Making sure that them that the public
Speaker 13: feels comfortable as well.
Speaker 3: Makes Sam Kelly fascinating on all things spot.
Speaker 2: While the price of Spot.
Speaker 3: Is now quite well above the price of Bitcoin, it
Speaker 3: seems crypto selloff has just been taking a pause. But look,
Speaker 3: we're still in ninety three three, four hundred and twenty,
Speaker 3: let's call it. It actually tumbled below ninety thousand dollars overnight
Speaker 3: for the first time since April.
Speaker 2: Numo's crypto reporter.
Speaker 3: Miaoshen joins us now and it feels as though we've
Speaker 3: got a little line of stability. But do we know
Speaker 3: who's going to be a buyer in this market? Is
Speaker 3: it institutional or is it retail?
Speaker 14: I think for now what we're seeing is that there's
Speaker 14: definitely some buyers has stepped in like as of a
Speaker 14: today because we saw sort of, as you said, a
Speaker 14: little as stability in the market at the moment. But
Speaker 14: what we're stroggling figure out actually who's going to be
Speaker 14: the new buyers right. I think right now we have
Speaker 14: a lot of these like that or the Digital Treasury
Speaker 14: complaints similar to micro Saler's strategy that perhaps going to
Speaker 14: coming out later this year or QY in next year.
Speaker 14: I think they're expected to be the buyers of the
Speaker 14: market in the near future.
Speaker 3: What's so interesting as well is during the government shutdown,
Speaker 3: we know that the list of ETF applications has been
Speaker 3: piling up over the sec Many people want to have
Speaker 3: more ETFs that are related to crypto, but not always
Speaker 3: about bitcoin. We know bitcoins taken ahead, but the old
Speaker 3: coins have really been selling fast and furiously. Is that
Speaker 3: something just the market's okay with it stomachs that volatility.
Speaker 14: I think it's quite concerning in terms of what's going
Speaker 14: on in the auto coins right because I think they're
Speaker 14: still struggling to find support after the October market crash
Speaker 14: in crypto because some of the auto coins in the
Speaker 14: market crash went down to zero on some of the exchanges.
Speaker 14: Can you imagine as a retail investor just holding a
Speaker 14: token and all of a sudden went down to zero
Speaker 14: during this brief market crash, especially if you're holding leverage positions, right.
Speaker 14: I think people ultimately do figure out, like, you know,
Speaker 14: what are the fundamentals of these auto coins?
Speaker 2: Are the projects behind it, like.
Speaker 14: Generating any sort of revenue or they're just sort of
Speaker 14: like you know, sort of created out of a thing
Speaker 14: air or sort of like being meant as a joke.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 14: I think that's the questions people have to sort of
Speaker 14: like find out fundamentals.
Speaker 3: It's a key question across all of this market. Mao
Speaker 3: shn It's great.
Speaker 2: To have you on. Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Indeed, I mean you are coming up more to come
Speaker 3: on What to expect from that highly anticipated meeting. It's
Speaker 3: kicked off between President Trump and NBS. Of course Mahammed
Speaker 3: bin Salmon, the cram Prince of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty big tech.
Speaker 3: Let's return to Washington now because Saudi Arabia's Cram Prince,
Speaker 3: Mohammed bin Salmon is at the White House today meeting
Speaker 3: with President Trump. The talks are expected to center on
Speaker 3: deepening US Saudi ties and of course the focus on
Speaker 3: tech investment, on innovation.
Speaker 2: When bugs Tyler Kendall rejoins.
Speaker 3: Us, you're live outside the White House and there was
Speaker 3: much fanfare, a flyover, and a very warm welcome for
Speaker 3: the leader of Saudi Arabia. Why is this relationship so
Speaker 3: important from a tech perspective?
Speaker 7: Yeah, hey, Caroline, Well, this is the Saudi Crown Prince's
Speaker 7: first visits to the US in seven years, so, as
Speaker 7: you're alluding to, there's a lot of pomp and circumstance
Speaker 7: here today, as the White House has really viewed Saudi
Speaker 7: Arabia as a strategic partner when it comes to investments
Speaker 7: in the US, but also broadening out cooperation when it
Speaker 7: comes to tech and artificial intelligence. We know at the
Speaker 7: top of the agenda today Saudi Arabia is looking for
Speaker 7: the US to green light those export licenses related to
Speaker 7: advanced semiconductors. But we have reporting here at Bloomberg News
Speaker 7: people familiar saying that right now those talks are centered
Speaker 7: around one what sort of security conditions will be put
Speaker 7: in place, and two, what are those specific reciprocal investments
Speaker 7: Riot is willing to make in the US. I have
Speaker 7: to say I was at the FII conference back in February.
Speaker 7: That was a Saudi backed investment conference in Miami, and
Speaker 7: it was President Trump's real first domestic trip since taking office,
Speaker 7: and he made the pitch that he wanted more money
Speaker 7: to be coming in from Saudi Arabia. A few months
Speaker 7: later in May, we saw him visit the region and
Speaker 7: secure a pledge for six hundred billion dollars in investments
Speaker 7: in the US over the next four years. We know
Speaker 7: a lot of this the administration wants to see in
Speaker 7: these critical sectors that they have identified as being really important,
Speaker 7: particularly when it comes to our competition in China, such
Speaker 7: as data centers and AI. So we're watching really closely
Speaker 7: whether or not there are any specific investments announcements related
Speaker 7: to that. That of course goes hand in hand with
Speaker 7: the second bucket we're watching here, which is defense today,
Speaker 7: as President Trump has indicated that he's set to approve
Speaker 7: the sale of F thirty five fighter jets amid some
Speaker 7: concerns one again with those chips access that China could
Speaker 7: have considering the close ties between the Kingdom and Beijing,
Speaker 7: but then also what that means for Israel. We know that,
Speaker 7: of course, Caroline, that they have a monopoly over the
Speaker 7: advanced fighter jet technology in the region.
Speaker 2: Be Mes Tyler Kendall not from the White House.
Speaker 3: We so appreciate it busy day there, busy day across
Speaker 3: tech that does it for this aosition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: But do not forget to check out our podcast you
Speaker 2: can find out on the terminal as well as online
Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart.
Speaker 3: And keep an eye on some of those big tech
Speaker 3: names as we anticipate in videos numbers after the bell
Speaker 3: tomorrow from New York.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.