1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogavon and 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and this is the second part of 3 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: our summer kickoff. Very celebratory. Yeah, our punchy two potter 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: on marshmallows and graham crackers. It's very punchy. And for 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: those who have been listening to previous episodes, you know, 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: we've been dying to talk about Dr Graham and the 7 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: Graham Cracker since the beginning. Yeah, especially Annie. This is 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: I think this is your your super passion project. Yeah, 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: I made. I sent Lauren an email and I had 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: a picture of Dr Graham with a target on it. 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and how how has someone who invented the 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: Graham cracker incited Annie's ire like this? We're going to 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: talk about it. Yes, I'm gonna talk all about it. 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: But first let's talk about what exactly a graham cracker is. Well, 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: a graham cracker is a lightly sweetened, puffy cracker. Properly, 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: it should be made at least partially with a type 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: of whole wheat flour called gram flour. And okay, let's 18 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: go on a slight flower tangent so so so so 19 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: wheat flowers, wheat flowers are made up of ground wheat grains, 20 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: which are seeds composed of of a germ, you know, 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: the little growy bit. It's filled with fats and vitamins 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: that's surrounded by an endospermum, which is the food for 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: the germ. It's made of carbs and proteins, and all 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: of that is wrapped up in the brand, which is 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: the fibrous outer layer that protects everything and keeps it inside. 26 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: A white flower is made from wheat grains that have 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: had the tough bran and germ removed, and most whole 28 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: wheat flowers that stuff is sifted out during the grinding 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: and then at least some of it is ground and 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: then added back in. But in grahm flower, the whole 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: grain is ground together sort of coarsely, more like a 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: meal than a flower almost, and traditionally that's what gives 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: graham crackers that sort of fine grit that you that 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: you wouldn't get in other whole wheat flower preparations. Yes, 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: they should be sweetened partially with molasses or brown sugar 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: to kind of round out their toasty sweet flavor. And 37 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: they're similar to the digestive biscuits of the United Kingdom, 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: if that's what you're familiar with, they're sort of like 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 1: a Graham Cracker. I've always loved the name digestive biscuit. Right, 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: it makes me feel like I have it after dinner 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: to help my stomach digest things. So it's so healthful. 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: You're doing yourself a favor. I'm sure. I'm sure that 43 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: I am, especially when they're covered in chocolate. Yes, oh well, 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: then yes that is a favor. Maybe not a healthy one, 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: but it's a favorite. So now that we know what 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: the Graham Cracker is, let's talk about how it came 47 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: to be. First, we should point out that the modern 48 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: Graham Cracker has undergone quite the Hollywood transformation and does 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: not much resemble what its first incarnation was at all 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: at all. And to understand the history of the Graham Cracker, 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: we have to talk about one doctor Sylvester Graham. Graham 52 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: was born in Connecticut in and he was one of 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: seventeen children. Yeah, his father died when he was a baby, 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: and his mother suffered from a mental illness, so he 55 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: stayed with a series of relatives growing up. For a stent, 56 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: he lived with the owner of a tavern who put 57 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: Graham to work in said tavern, and his experience with 58 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: drunks and drunkenness led Graham to swear off alcohol forever. 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: He held many jobs, from farm hand to teacher, but 60 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: one constant thing he dealt with was illness. In his 61 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: late twenties, health permitting, he attended Amherst Academy in Massachusetts, 62 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: where evidently he enjoyed popularity among the ladies. The other 63 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: fellows were quite jealous and conspired to get him kicked 64 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: out of the college by Lyne about his improper interactions 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: with said ladies. Goodness, yeah, and apparently it worked, and 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: he was giving the old he hoped, and his health failed. 67 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: He had a nervous breakdown and he had to move 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: to Rhode Island to recover. Why Rhode Island, I don't know, 69 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: but he did in eighteen twenty six, and that same 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: year he got married, was ordained as a Presbyterian minister, 71 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: and became the minister of a congregation in New Jersey. 72 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: So quite the year for him. Yes, he was pretty 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: well liked, except for one minor thing. The sermons he 74 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: gave railing against alcohol, because at the time alcohol was 75 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere and it was just sort of a 76 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: thing you did at social events. It was the hospitable 77 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: thing to do. Offer somebody to drink. People at that 78 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: time drink about three times as much as we do today. Yeah. Yeah, 79 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: And it was still commonly used medicinally for all kinds 80 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: of things, including what we now call stress. He used 81 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: medicinality for that sometimes too, uh huh, Well they did 82 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: back then. Graham left his congregation in eighteen thirty and 83 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: was hired by the Pennsylvania Society for the Suppression of 84 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: Ardent Spirits. Quite a name to go around speaking about 85 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: the health risk and immorality of alcohol. This was all 86 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: part of the temperance movement that was sweeping the United 87 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: States from the eighteen twenties through through at least the 88 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: forties on into the seventies and eighties as well. Started 89 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: largely in Protestant churches, but expanding into local and national groups. 90 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: And this movement was largely run and led by women, 91 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: and was thus sort of surprisingly feminist in some ways. 92 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: It wound up pushing for women's rights. It also led 93 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: to the passing of laws that would eventually culminate in 94 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: a prohibition nationwide prohibition. But yeah, as of the eighteen 95 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: thirties and involved a lot of groups hiring people to 96 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: go around and preach virtue and good health via abstaining 97 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: from alcohol. And Graham was great at these preachings. He 98 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: was so great that people began calling him doctor Graham 99 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: even though he's not a real doctor, Doctor Graham that 100 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: I thought he was a real doctor. Me too, man 101 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: huh ter Cholera outbreak of eight two. Oh my goodness, 102 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: panic sweeps the nation. Doctor's call for a curative composed 103 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: in part of Brandy, But Graham was having none of it. 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: He said that drug shops were lurking at every corner 105 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: waiting quote like so many craters of hell to vomit 106 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: out the love of death. What Yeah, he's not messing around, Okay, Nope. 107 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: In Graham's book, your best bet to prevent cholera was, 108 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, don't worry about it and ignore these doctors. Instead, 109 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: you need to bathe at regular intervals, spend some time 110 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: in the great outdoors, reading that fresh air, getting some exercise, 111 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: drink pure water, and absolutely the most important eat foods 112 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: of the plant Kingdom. No meat, no alcohol, no tobacco, 113 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: and no absolutely do not even think about having any 114 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: white bread and as a result of this, vegetarianism start 115 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: to become more well known. I should point out that 116 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: a lot of that's pretty good advice. Yes, uh, this 117 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: is kind of the start of preventative like lifestyles. Yeah, 118 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: which is nice. Oh yeah, I have no problem with 119 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: that at all. Yeah. Meanwhile, while all of this was happening, 120 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: the food industry was busy industrializing. As we touched on 121 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: in our sour Dough episode, this significantly impacted bread, moving 122 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: it out of something that was baked in homes into 123 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: large factories and depleting a lot of the nutritional value. 124 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: And technologies have been developed that could grind flower finer 125 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: and sift out the brand and the germ. And Graham 126 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: did not approve. No, no, he thought it led to 127 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: a lazy colon. That's that's horrible, which I guess is 128 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: partially true ish because you know, the fiber has taken 129 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: out um, and also bakeries at the time were unregulated 130 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: and that they didn't necessarily always use good ingredients. There's 131 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: all kinds of rumors about that, you know, like dry 132 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: wall getting mixed up in there or something like that. 133 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it was drywall plan. I don't think 134 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: dry wall is invented for a while later, But and 135 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: Graham believed lifestyle as prevention was what God had always intended, 136 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: so he was one of the first to popularize the 137 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: idea of religion and health, our morality and health in 138 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: our culture. If you were getting sick, you were violating 139 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: a law of life laid down by God. Graham thought 140 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: this to be his God given mission to promote this diet, 141 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: to save Americans from their immoral diet choices. And to 142 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: be fair, because we can't tell I got a bit 143 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: of a bee for the Graham it sounds like he 144 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: was saying repeated in fractions for the culprit like eating 145 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: too much meat or drinking too much alcohol. But still 146 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: he argued that gluttony is quote one of the greatest 147 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: sources of evil to the human family. Yeah, and another thing, 148 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: The Grand Diet, as it was known, was also meant 149 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: to prevent what was seen by many as the evils 150 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: of the day, lust, masturbation in all manner of sexual 151 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: immorality quote unquote. Right, By following his diet avoiding over stimulation, 152 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: which included feather beds and warm food, your levio would 153 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: greatly decrease and protect you from such sinful temptation. He 154 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: went around giving lectures about sexual chastity, saying things along 155 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: the lines of like, spicy foods lead to a spicy 156 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: constitution and should be avoided. And he particularly maligned masturbation, 157 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: which he believed caused blindness and insanity. Yeah, he believed 158 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: that masturbating inflames the brain, even more so than sex, 159 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: which he believed that no one should have more than 160 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: once month. Oh, he thought that if you exercised your 161 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: lust too much, your children would die young because you 162 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: had deluded your reproductive abilities. Yeah, there's this whole thing 163 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: where they thought sperm was sacred at the time, and 164 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: you only had a certain amount, and everyone was like 165 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: this perfect thing and you shouldn't waste it, don't use 166 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: it up. Mmm uh. And though there were a fair 167 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: amount of skeptics, Graham attracted quite the following of supporters 168 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: who were in hodn as Grahamites. They climbed the diet, 169 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: cured all kinds of things, and some of them lived 170 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: in communities together. And this is about the time we 171 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: finally arrived at the Graham Cracker. But first quick break 172 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank 173 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So let's go back to that white bread thing, 174 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: because it is central to the Graham Crackers or urgent story. 175 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: In eighty seven, Graham wrote this this thing called Treatise 176 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: on Bread and Breadmaking, which sounds lovely just by the title. 177 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean share that sense. That's why I would read 178 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: a Treatise on Bread and Bread Making. A snippet from 179 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: the introduction, thousands in civic life will, for years and 180 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: perhaps as long as they live, eat the most miserable 181 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: trash that can be imagined in the form of bread, 182 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: and never seemed to think that they can possibly have 183 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: anything better, not even that it is an evil to 184 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: eat such vile stuff as they do. I have thought, therefore, 185 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: that I could hardly do society a better service than 186 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: to publish the following treatise on a subject which, whether 187 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: people are aware that are not, in reality, is very 188 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: great importance to the health and comfort of everyone. So 189 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: that's not so lovely. I'd be very disappointed had I 190 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: picked up this book expecting like wonderful bread recipes. None, 191 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: none of that was contained therein In this book he 192 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: advocated for making bread using a method he developed of 193 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: grinding up whole week kernels. Uh. And the resulting product 194 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: was the courser than your average hole wheat flower that 195 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: came to be known as Graham flower. And this vilification 196 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: of commercialized bread and those that made it led to 197 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: Graham being mobbed by some angry bakers, also some butcher's. 198 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: At some point he thought that he was, you know, 199 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: bad for business. And this wasn't the first time he 200 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: was mommed either. In four a group of women mobbed 201 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: him at a lecture about chastity. But I believe this 202 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: had more to do with a man speaking to women 203 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: in public about sex than any sort of backlash against chastity. 204 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: According to Graham, bread had to be made by wives 205 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: and mothers with love and care, which would then lead 206 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: to a happy digestive system of those who ate it. 207 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: A lot of women didn't like this because the introduction 208 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: of commercialized bread had freed up some of their time. 209 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: Now get back in the kitchen, y'ell. Yeah, Graham would 210 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: use the gram flower to make Graham crackers. But like 211 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: we said, they were a far cry from today's Graham crackers. 212 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, that they were. They were not sweetened, 213 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: they contained no fat. It was basically just just this 214 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: Graham flower and water. Mm hmm uh. He sold and 215 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: produced produced them locally, but without profit because he believed 216 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: that to be immoral and oh Berlin adopted the Graham 217 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: diet for their diet plan in yes Uh, and three 218 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: years later students were protesting and a professor was fired 219 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: for using the forbidden sexually provocative pepper. And Oberlin dropped 220 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: the diet from their dining halls, and by the late 221 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: eighteen thirties, Graham's influence started to wane. I can't can't 222 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: imagine that. I mean, you know, you feed these people 223 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: like something that has to be boiled basically in order 224 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: to be edible. And why why would people protest that? 225 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Why would college students not be down 226 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: with that? I'm not sure. It's one of the great mysteries. 227 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: The New York Times wrote in eighty six that graham 228 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: Is um was quote the most pernicious and abhorrent, a 229 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: fanatical attempt to shut out from mankind certain sources of 230 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: happiness and enjoyment which were clearly provided and intended for 231 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: them in the economy of the Earth. That's pretty harsh 232 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: criticism right there. Partially because he thought it was immoral 233 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: to sell things. He died totally broke and in destitution 234 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty one at the age of one. And 235 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: guess who drew inspiration from Dr Graham Our friend, doctor Kello, 236 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: although he's an actual doctor at least at least at 237 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: least yeah, I guess uh. In fact, some people argue 238 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: that Graham's greatest legacy is his influence on Kellogg, who 239 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: was a grand might. Using graham flower among other things, 240 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: he invented a rather bland cereal he called granola, and, 241 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: launching off its success, he went on to formulate corn flakes. 242 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: But so, how on earth did we go from from 243 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: this terrible, healthful bland cracker that you might have had 244 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: to boil before eating to the lovely sweet sandwich capturer 245 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: of marshmallows, friend of some mores mm hmm pie crust ingredient. Yeah, 246 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: how do we do it? We'll tell you after another 247 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. 248 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: So although Graham passed a way, his graham flower would 249 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: live on, and by the late eighteen hundreds, recipes for 250 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: graham flower crackers involving sugar and butter my god or 251 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: lard goodness, uh would start to emerge um, although the 252 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: unsweetened version was still made, they were called more often 253 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: Graham wafers than Graham crackers, and commercial bakeries were also 254 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: starting to sell them. Then in eight the National Biscuit 255 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: Company formed, and this was a conglomeration of a hundred 256 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: and fourteen independent bakeries and they would easily dominate the 257 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: cracker market in the United States. According to one Thomas 258 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: s Olive Olive with two els, a noted biscuit man 259 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: uh and the vice president of the company Uh. He said, 260 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: the formation of the National Biscuit Company resulted in practically 261 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: a new biscuit industry. So thorough was the revolution which 262 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: took place that sounds very epic, it was. It was 263 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: around that time that innovations in manufacturing technology allowed for 264 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: the formerly kind of fussy and labor intensive process of 265 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: making and cutting crackers to become easier and more automated 266 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: a dough mixers and and stamp cutters, stuff like that. 267 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: But there was a bit of an upset in nineteen 268 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: where some dishonest mills were selling whole wheat flour that 269 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: had been sifted and only had a little bit of 270 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: the brand worked. Back in as graham Flower. The U. 271 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: S d A Bureau of Chemistry, which was a thing, 272 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: uh prior to the f d A. The U. S 273 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: d A Bureau of Chemistry did a really extensive analysis, 274 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: really extensive. This was serious. It sounds serious. I don't 275 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: don't market things that aren't graham Flower as grand Flower. 276 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: Don't you do it any reas it's the ghost of 277 00:17:54,760 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: Dr Graham. I know what you've done. Meanwhile, in nine five, 278 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: the Pacific Coast Biscuit Company, another cracker conglomerate. Apparently there 279 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: was a lot of those back in the day. They 280 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: launched their honeymade line. Perhaps you've heard of them. Um 281 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: that they would be purchased by the National Biscuit Company 282 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: five years later, National Biscuit Company Nubisco. I can't believe 283 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: I'd never had together. I had no idea. No. I 284 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: probably if it had been like one dude who invented it. 285 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: As is, most of our episodes can be traced back 286 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: there's one guy. Yeah, that's what I would have thought. 287 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: That it was a guy named Nibisco. Yeah, Mr Nabisco. 288 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: No National Phis Company. These nineteen twenties Ish Graham crackers 289 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: were marketed with the with the name sugar in their 290 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: name for a long time, because cookies were sometimes called 291 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: sugar crackers back. Yeah, and further innovations over the next 292 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: few decades would develop the process that is used today. 293 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: Um massive drums mixed the dough, a series of gauged rollers, 294 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: squitch it down to the right thickness, rotary cutters slice 295 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: it into shape, and the crackers are baked in a 296 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: in a tunnel oven on convey There's a lot of 297 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: gesture happening right now. Yes. By the nineteen fifties, graham 298 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: cracker crumbs became a popular ingredient in desserts, and in 299 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: their current form, most mass produced graham crackers are actually 300 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: not made from graham flower. They're made mostly of white 301 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: flour and are colored to achieve the whole wheat look. 302 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: Modern animal crackers are usually made of the same dough. Oh, 303 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: I don't like cannimal crackers. No, do you like graham crackers? 304 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: I do. And this is one of the great ironies 305 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: is that they were invented as a health food using 306 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: gram flower, and now they are not a health food 307 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: and they don't use gram flower, they're still called graham crackers. 308 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: I think. I think our friend Dr Anne is rolling 309 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: in his grave. I think so too, although his I 310 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: mean preventative lifestyle. And I did read a lot of 311 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: people who conveniently glossed over the whole masturbation and six 312 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: all that being evil thing to praise him for helping 313 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: spread vegetarianism and a healthy lifestyle. Yeah, which I can appreciate, Yeah, absolutely, 314 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean that other stuff was was crazy. The problem 315 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into the whole tangent of 316 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: why I don't like uh Dr Graham, but there are 317 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: some videos from my old show stuff I never told 318 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: you canna check it out. I have more of a 319 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: problem of that that it's tied to morality, and that 320 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: we've tied weight to morality because you can't. I mean 321 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: so much genetics is involved, Oh yeah, yeah, and then 322 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: there and there's so many different body types and there's 323 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 1: nothing that says that that any one of them is 324 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: a healthy one. Yes, exactly for any given person. That's 325 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: my main problem. Yes, if you don't want to buy 326 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: a Graham cracker at the store, you could make your own. 327 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: You can. I have never done this, Have you done this? 328 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: But I contemplated seriously doing it because I have a 329 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: I have a recipe book and I have the page 330 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: folded down. Perhaps it will happen in the near future. 331 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: I've heard it's worthwhile. Alton Brown and Smitten Kitchen both 332 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: have recipes that look pretty excellent. Um. You don't strictly 333 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: have to track down graham Flower, but um, but specialty 334 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: companies like King Arthur and Bob's Redmill stuff like that, 335 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: they do totally sell it so you can find it. Yeah, 336 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever I've never been looking for it, 337 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: but I don't think I've ever seen Graham Flower. I 338 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: don't think I have either. But again, yeah, I just 339 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: glossed right over it. It definitely exists, and I think 340 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: that's about what we have to say about Graham Crackers. Yeah. 341 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what you were expecting when you clicked 342 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: on this episode, but this isn't what I was expecting 343 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: to be reading about today. No, and I would, uh, well, 344 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask you to do this, but 345 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: I took a moment to do this and think about 346 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of the impact that people like Graham and Kellogg 347 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: had on how we view diet today, and also just 348 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: products and how they're marketed and what we can still buy. 349 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: I think it's worth pondering perhaps that could just be 350 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: me um So that brings us to listener mailes so 351 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: much good listener mail. This first one is from Jenny, 352 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: who wrote in response to our Fried Chicken episode. I 353 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: did not expect the Fried Chicken episode to bring back 354 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: so many memories for me, and it made me remember 355 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: that I would not be here if it weren't for 356 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Fried Chicken. I know my family is Jewish, and my 357 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: grandfather's family settled in Clarksdale, Misissippi, in the early nineteen hundreds, 358 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: where they ran a small grocery store. I mentioned their 359 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: ethnicity simply to demonstrate that it seems by the nineteen forties, 360 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: love of fried chicken had permeated throughout all cultures. My 361 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: mother says that my grandmother spoke with a Southern Hiddish accent, 362 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: which is something I cannot even imagine. He enlisted in 363 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: World War two and nineteen forty two. At the time, 364 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: he was twenty six, somewhat old in those days to 365 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: be going into active duty. At some point after that, 366 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: his unit was sent to Kansas City for training for 367 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: some reason or another. The exact details are fuzzy, but 368 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: there was some sort of Jewish USO type dance that year, 369 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: and the women provided food for the soldiers. My grandmother 370 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: lived in Kansas City and was also apparently nearing old 371 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: made status. At the age of twenty four. She made 372 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: fried chicken, and where she learned to make it, I 373 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: don't know. Apparently it was so delicious to my homesick 374 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: southern grandfather that he sought her out. In this case, 375 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: the way to his heart really was through his stomach. 376 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: They were married on Valentine's Day. N that is a 377 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: terrific story about fried chicken. It's beautiful. Oh, thank you 378 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: food bringing people together. Yes, thank you for that. Yes, um. 379 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: And and then we have another exploding pineapple story. Another one. 380 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: This one is from Kelly, who says nine is years ago. 381 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: My family was in the midst of helping my grandparents 382 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: downsize and move into a retirement community in northern Indiana 383 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: where we all live. We my mom, younger brother, grandmother, 384 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: and I were down in my grandparents basement to bring 385 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: up canned goods that my grandmother wanted to bring with 386 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: her when she moved. She stored all of her canned 387 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: goods in a cheaply made pine cabinet that my grandfather 388 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: bought for a dollar when he and my grandmother first 389 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: moved to North Manchester. As we got to the back 390 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: of the cabinet, we noticed that the shelf was covered 391 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: in this brown, sticky residue. My brother, being the adventurous 392 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: soul that he is, finally peeled off a it and 393 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: ate it. It tastes like pineapple, he exclaimed. Sure enough, 394 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: at the back of this cabinet there was this industrial 395 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: size can of pineapple that had exploded and leaked pineapple 396 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: juice everywhere. The part that made my mother and I 397 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: laughed the hardest was it the can was so old 398 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 1: that there was nothing left that resembled pineapple, just that 399 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 1: sticky residue. As my mother started trying to clean up 400 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: the mess, she became so fascinated with the layers of 401 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: paint and wallpaper that covered this cabinet that she insisted 402 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: on bringing it home and restoring it. Today, the cabinet 403 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: proudly stands in our family room, holding my mother's collection 404 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: of cookbooks. She even managed to find pineapple shaped knobs 405 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: for the two drawers. She probably calls it her Pineapple cabinet. 406 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: I love it. Pineapple cabinets made of fine smells like 407 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: pineapple pineapple knobs. That's great, floating pineapple jakes a kid. 408 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe we've got two emails about that pineapple 409 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: danger apparent. Yeah, you on the look out for that, 410 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: everyone beware. But before we leave you today, we we 411 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: wanted to have a little bit of a chat. We 412 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: we had the great opportunity to get some media passes 413 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: to the Atlanta Food and Wine Festival, which just happened 414 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: at the beginning of June here in Atlanta. As you 415 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: may have guessed surprised from the name. Yeah, and I 416 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: actually had strepped throat, so I didn't get to go, 417 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: which was very, very disappointed. It was very tragic. It 418 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: was oh man, I mean, I mean, strep throat is 419 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: never fun. But like the thought that instead of eating 420 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: delicious food you're having strep throat is very pressing. Yeah, 421 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: but Annie did get to go. I did. I did, 422 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: and it was my first year going and it was fantastic. 423 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: I wish Lauren had been there because I did my 424 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: best to sample all of the foods and drinks. But 425 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: I could have used a partner. Yeah, yeah, you can 426 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: eat twice as much to team up. But but yeah, 427 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: so so right that the festival has these tasting tents 428 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: that Southern chefs from all over the South come and 429 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: and proposed stuff from, you know, just just whatever they 430 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: think is exciting. Yeah, and they're trying to represent the 431 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 1: state that they're from. So the first event I went 432 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: to on Thursday was called Destination Delicious and it was 433 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: all I believes, thirteen Southern states and they all had 434 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: tents and they had like drinks and advertisers and desserts 435 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: that we're supposed to show off the best of their region. 436 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: And everything I tried was amazing and I only wish 437 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: that I had had more space. The next day, I 438 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: went to a panel on because they also do panels 439 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: and they're amazing. I went to a panel on Georgia 440 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: local craft Brewers, Beer Brewers Cool, and that was great. 441 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: They had samples and they were talking about just how 442 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: they came to get into the business and difficulties they've 443 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: tasted in, how they got to their recipes, all the 444 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 1: testing they did, so that was excellent. And then I 445 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,719 Speaker 1: went to kind of a throwback to our first episode. 446 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: I went to best Most Award winning of North Georgia Wines. Yeah, 447 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: and that was also really cool. I got to try 448 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: some wines I've never tried from North Georgia, which is 449 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: saying something because I have sampled quite a few. I 450 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: am from North Georgia mostly um. And then that night 451 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: was the tasting tints, so many tasting tints. I thought 452 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: I'd tried everything, and then I realized that there was 453 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: a whole downstairs area with more tints than all the 454 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: other tants that I had already tried. I ran into 455 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: our friends from Old Fourth Distillery. They had an excellent 456 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: cocktail and had King of Pops pop in it. It 457 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: was so good. Um. And one of I one of 458 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: my favorite things I tried was from Fox Brothers Barbecue 459 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and it was like a uh aged steak thing. And 460 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: then not their Revolution Donuts, which is just always good, 461 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: always a favorite in my book. So yeah, I could 462 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: go on and on and on about all the food 463 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: I tried, and I took all these pictures, but um, 464 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: we just wanted to think the Atlanta Food and Wine 465 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: Festival for inviting us giving the passes. Very sorry to 466 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: Lauren and y that I didn't get to go, But 467 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: but next next year, next year, yeah, absolutely, and man like, 468 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: they had a panel about mescal and the way that 469 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: the designation is changing in Mexico and how it's going 470 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: oh so much. They had one called like, um, ain't 471 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: scared and it was just like unusual foods which you 472 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: won't usually encounter. I wanted to go to that so bad. 473 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: And they had one on sak dying to learn more 474 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: about saki. They every day was just a fight over 475 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: which one, which one to go to. Yeah, yeah, I've 476 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: I've never I've never been to a food festival before 477 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: actually and uh yeah, so so I really or I mean, 478 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: you know, I've been to like small like like like 479 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: Strawberry Festival or something like that, but nothing, nothing on 480 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: that scale and with that level of education going on. 481 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Um uh yeah. If if if you guys have, if 482 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: you guys were either there you experienced some of this yourself, um, 483 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: get in touch and let us know about it. Or 484 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: if there's another food festival in your area that yeah, yeah, 485 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: tell us about it. Field trip time. We're always down 486 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: for a field trip. Yeah. Feel free to email us 487 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: about that or anything else at food stuff at house 488 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: to works dot com. You can also get in touch 489 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: with us via social media on Facebook and Twitter. We 490 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: are food Stuff hs W stands for how stuff works. 491 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: On Instagram, we are just plain old food stuff. We 492 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: hope to hear from you, and we hope that lots 493 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: more good things are coming your way.