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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Hannah. The Netflix show Thirteen Reasons Why has

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Speaker 1: been criticized for glorifying suicide because I'm about to tell

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Speaker 1: you the story of my life, more specifically, why my

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Speaker 1: life ended. The fictional series features a high school girl

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Speaker 1: who sends tapes to students and a teacher explaining how

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Speaker 1: they wronged her. If you're listening to this tape, you're

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why everyone is just so nice

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Speaker 1: until they drive you to kill yourself. This is Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Other says a teacher gave her

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old son the idea to watch a Netflix

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Speaker 1: series she feels contributed to some of his mental health issues.

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Speaker 1: One of the teachers was discussing the series in class

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Speaker 1: and basically said, you know, I think it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good show. You guys should check it out. Days later,

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Speaker 1: her son was committed for psychiatric evaluation. He was creating

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Speaker 1: a thirteen Reasons Why list told us he was having

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Speaker 1: thoughts to suicide, that he didn't want to live. He

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Speaker 1: didn't want to live a little boy didn't want to live.

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Speaker 1: A mother out of Florida now saying a teacher prompt

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Speaker 1: today discussion of the show that her little boy watched

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Speaker 1: it and wrote down thirteen reasons he did not want

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Speaker 1: to live. Now, this Netflix show is about a girl

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Speaker 1: who records thirteen reasons why she committed suicide. Oh, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as he grace. This is crime stories. The mom, who

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Speaker 1: does not want us to identify her, says. The teacher

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Speaker 1: at Clay High School in Green Cove Springs, Florida, told

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Speaker 1: his students, including her son, to check out the Netflix

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Speaker 1: hit show Thirteen Reasons Why. So her son goes and

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Speaker 1: watches the show, watches the series and immediately started to

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Speaker 1: self harm. He wrote down thirteen reasons why he wanted

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Speaker 1: to commit suicide. The mom finds the note, sends him

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Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist to be evaluated. And we're learning this

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Speaker 1: from a news for Jack's report, and she is quoting

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Speaker 1: when I went to talk to the school about it

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Speaker 1: after he had been released from the Middle Health Resource Center,

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Speaker 1: I had the written notes that he had made. He

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Speaker 1: was creating thirteen reasons why he did not want to live.

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Speaker 1: He created the thirteen reasons why list and told us

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Speaker 1: that he was having thoughts of suicide. I'm beside myself,

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Speaker 1: she says the teacher at Clay County school district instigated

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. Of course, the school disagrees. They say

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Speaker 1: the students brought up the show and told their teacher

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Speaker 1: to watch it, and then he discussed the series with

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Speaker 1: them afterwards, but did not discuss or encourage an in

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Speaker 1: depth conversation. Okay, Alan, what do we know? The question

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Speaker 1: is did the teacher bring this up in class as

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Speaker 1: part of a planned curriculum. The apparent answer is no.

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Speaker 1: The teacher is telling the principle that she only discussed

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Speaker 1: it when students in the class started bringing it up

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Speaker 1: and said, let's talk about it. So I think the

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Speaker 1: teacher wasn't exactly prepared because she was caught by surprise.

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Speaker 1: And what do you do? Do you tell them, no,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about this, or do you

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Speaker 1: are you brave and you dive into it and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: not think it through enough, not have enough support to

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Speaker 1: deal with it. Well, how about saying something like suicide

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Speaker 1: is never I'm assuming that she did say that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's a natural thing, not according to this, not according

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Speaker 1: to this, But we don't know the truth of it.

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Speaker 1: The mom says one thing, the teacher says another. But

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Speaker 1: let's let's talk about The show's produced by Selena Gomez,

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Speaker 1: former Disney cutie. It's gotten all kind of positive reviews,

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Speaker 1: but it's also gotten a lot of criticism. The show

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Speaker 1: Thirteen the Reasons Why, is about Clay Jensen. Before Clay's

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Speaker 1: she recorded the reasons she decided to kill herself on

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Speaker 1: a cassette tape, and she sent the reasons to the

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Speaker 1: thirteen people she believes caused her to commit suicide. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I don't think this is a kind of content for children.

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Speaker 1: I don't think children should be learning about suicide. Alan, Well,

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Speaker 1: the kids brought it up in class. Off, what I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing is true, and how do you deal with that?

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Speaker 1: We need an expert to talk about this. This is

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Speaker 1: really heavy stuff because you bring and put something in

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Speaker 1: their head or reinforce something that's already in their head,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's pretty dangerous. Well, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you this much. The first thing you do when you're

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Speaker 1: talking to children, somebody brings up suicide, you would say

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Speaker 1: immediately that is never an alternative. There are ways to

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Speaker 1: make your life or your problem better. In fact, with

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Speaker 1: a lot of suicide victims, it is believed that if

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Speaker 1: they had waited just twenty four to forty eight hours,

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Speaker 1: they would have not committed suicide. Their feelings at that

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Speaker 1: moment would have changed, it would have gotten better, or

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Speaker 1: else they would have realized they did not want to

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Speaker 1: take their life and hurt all of their family and friends.

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Speaker 1: If they could have just waited. That's what suicide hotlines do.

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Speaker 1: They keep you on the line and talk you through

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Speaker 1: it until you can get past that horrible, horrible moment

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Speaker 1: of depression when you see no other alternative. Plus, I

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Speaker 1: think the moment that was brought up, all the parents

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Speaker 1: should have been alerted. I don't think anyone should have

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Speaker 1: been encouraged to watch the show if that's even what happened. Alan,

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Speaker 1: I think we should get the professional Karen Stark on

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Speaker 1: the line. I want to thank our expert joining us

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Speaker 1: this morning, Karen Stark. Karen, a Florida mom says a

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Speaker 1: teacher prompted a discussion of the new Netflix series Thirteen

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Speaker 1: Reasons Why, which is about a kid that commits sue aside.

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Speaker 1: It is executive produced by Selena Gomez. Now, this child

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Speaker 1: did not commit suicide, but is having suicidal thoughts and

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Speaker 1: has created a list of thirteen reasons why. The child

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Speaker 1: does not want to live. The kid apparently binged on

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Speaker 1: it and watched several series and now is come up

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Speaker 1: with a list of thirteen reasons why the child doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to live anymore. You know, Karen, it's my understanding

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Speaker 1: having dealt with suicidal people. But I'm just a j D.

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Speaker 1: You're the shrink that if you can get them past

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Speaker 1: that horrible moment, those hours or days that they are

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Speaker 1: contemplating suicide, that their mood can change and then they

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Speaker 1: realize it would have been a horrible idea. If you

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Speaker 1: can just get them through that that horrible moment, I

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Speaker 1: think that you're absolutely correct, Nancy, Dad, if you can

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Speaker 1: get them beyond that. But I also want to say

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Speaker 1: that you need to look for the symptoms, and that

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Speaker 1: teenagers are particularly susceptible to the idea of suicide. They

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Speaker 1: don't really have an idea about what death is, um

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Speaker 1: any kind of a reality surrounding that. And um, the show,

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Speaker 1: in particular, because I watched it, kind of glorifies suicide

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Speaker 1: in the way that it handles it. Karen tell me

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Speaker 1: about the show Unhappy Cannancy. It doesn't really um show

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Speaker 1: you the pain that she went through or give you

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Speaker 1: enough focus on the sadness, the anger, all the repercussions

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Speaker 1: of suicide. It makes it look like this unpopular girl

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Speaker 1: suddenly became popular and people thought of her a new

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Speaker 1: way after she kills herself, and so she gets revenge

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Speaker 1: on all the people around her. Okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, she becomes popular after the suicide. People

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Speaker 1: have regrets and they get together to talk about her

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Speaker 1: awful And I know they didn't mean to do that.

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Speaker 1: You know, they meant to really focus on bullying and

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Speaker 1: the susceptibility of teenagers to being ignored, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: handle it in a way that really shows that this

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Speaker 1: is not a good idea. That you don't want to

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Speaker 1: do this, And for kids who are depressed and already

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Speaker 1: feeling bad about themselves, they're too susceptible to watch something

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Speaker 1: like that. Guys, I just want to put it out

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Speaker 1: there right now, National Suicide Prevention Line one eight hundred

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Speaker 1: two seven three eight hundred two seven three eight to Karen.

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Speaker 1: You and I discussed this many many times, and I

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Speaker 1: recall in the horrible, horrible months and really years following

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Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, I just wanted to go and be

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Speaker 1: with him. The physical act of killing myself really didn't

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Speaker 1: play into my thinking. The horrible angst it would have

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Speaker 1: called my my parents and my friends and case parents.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even take that into consideration. And I think

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Speaker 1: that many, many thinking people have thought about suicide. And

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Speaker 1: in my mind, it was more about being back with Keith.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't about, oh, I'm ending my earthly life and

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Speaker 1: you're so in it you can't see your way out

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Speaker 1: of it. But I look back on those dark, dark

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Speaker 1: times following his murder and I think I would not

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Speaker 1: have had the twins. I would never have known you

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Speaker 1: and Alan. It would have devastated my parents. I would

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Speaker 1: never have married and have the happy blessings that I

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Speaker 1: have now. And when you're in it, Karen, you can't

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Speaker 1: see past. It's like you're in a dark I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like a bubble you can't get out of. I And

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is just overwhelming. I was an adult,

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Speaker 1: you know, not much of an adult in my twenty

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Speaker 1: young adult. I can't imagine children dealing with that care

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Speaker 1: and stark. They can't, Nancy, I mean, and what you're

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Speaker 1: describing in your particular instance, it's extreme trauma where you

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Speaker 1: really need tremendous support and help to get through that.

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Speaker 1: That darkness you're talking about, it's a deep depression that

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Speaker 1: you can see out of. That's why it's depression. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really there's no light that you could see

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Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel and no sense that

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Speaker 1: the world makes. It's hard to be happy when you're

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Speaker 1: in that place. And Karen, the thing is there's no reason,

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Speaker 1: like someone could say, well, why are you depressed, and

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Speaker 1: the answers I don't know. It's like it can be

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Speaker 1: so palpable. It's like a presence in the room with you.

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Speaker 1: It's overwhelming, you know. And that is what these children

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Speaker 1: are suffering because in their world, you know, I look

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Speaker 1: back at my high school bullies. They're all horrible. I

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Speaker 1: might add, okay, but I mean now they're like nothing.

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Speaker 1: I don't even think of them. But in these children's

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Speaker 1: minds that that's your whole world. And that's right. Their

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Speaker 1: world is very small, Karen, I'm just beside myself thinking

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Speaker 1: of a child, a child committing suicide. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that was not Netflix's intention. They may not even

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Speaker 1: realize children are getting on Netflix and watching it. I

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Speaker 1: think that they really um in a way. They geared

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Speaker 1: it for children. They were hoping that it was a

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Speaker 1: positive message about bullying and depression, and I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that he was somebody who had just moved. All of

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Speaker 1: these are signs you have to be there careful when

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Speaker 1: it comes to certain kids to understand. Karen, I know

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Speaker 1: that you're in the middle of one of your seminars.

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Speaker 1: Please just give the listeners some advice because Okay, don't

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Speaker 1: get me started. Karen, I'm gonna blame you because I'm

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Speaker 1: now thinking about my beautiful twins and they have bullies,

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Speaker 1: girl bullies and boy bullies, I'm sad to say, and

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Speaker 1: the thought that this could overtake them. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: talked to you about this many times, about the girl

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Speaker 1: bullies and the boy bullies, and for Pete say, they're

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Speaker 1: only in the third grade, but the thought go this far.

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh, it's just breaking my heart. To give

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Speaker 1: me some advice for parents, and I'm all ears, Karen. Start. Absolutely, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to do that, and that was what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do. So you have to check it at

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Speaker 1: whether your kids seem to be depressed, and you have

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Speaker 1: to not be afraid to bring up the subject. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, it's hortant to bring it up.

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Speaker 1: If you bring it up, it doesn't mean you're going

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Speaker 1: to put an idea in their head. You're going to

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Speaker 1: find out whether they are feeling that depressed or doubt.

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Speaker 1: If they're talking about dying right, disappearing, jumping, shooting oneself,

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Speaker 1: that's something to look out for. If there's been a

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Speaker 1: recent loss like what you went through Nancy, through death divorce,

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Speaker 1: you have to pay attention to that. If their self

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Speaker 1: confidence or steams he is affected, if there's a change

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Speaker 1: in their personality they seem sad and withdrawn and they

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Speaker 1: were not like that before. If there's a change in

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Speaker 1: their behavior where they're not getting along in school or

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Speaker 1: they can't concentrate under school work, change in sleeping patterns

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Speaker 1: you know, if they're in if they're insomniac or if

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Speaker 1: they're sleeping all the time. A change in eating habits um,

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Speaker 1: if there's a feeling that they're going to harm themselves,

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Speaker 1: if their steam is very low, if you find at

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Speaker 1: they have the kind of thoughts like everybody would be

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Speaker 1: better office they were not around, And most importantly, if

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Speaker 1: there's no hope for the future, which is what you

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Speaker 1: were describing, if you believe that things will never get better.

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Speaker 1: And when you are a teenager and a child, you

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Speaker 1: don't have that idea that you talked about that someday

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Speaker 1: you'll be married, you'll have children, it will be very different.

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Speaker 1: It won't affect you the way it does at this age.

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Speaker 1: And those are the things that parents really need to

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Speaker 1: address and not be afraid to do it. If you

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Speaker 1: have worried, get help for your child, make them talk

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Speaker 1: about it, Talk with somebody as much support as you

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Speaker 1: possibly can. It's a serious thing. That's why we talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Karen. I know this is totally unprofessional, but

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Speaker 1: I love you. You're just so wonderful and you have

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Speaker 1: been through so many personal battles and you're a hero

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Speaker 1: to me, and everything you say is correct on this

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Speaker 1: and I just want to thank you for being with

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Speaker 1: us and on this special topic because honestly, Karen, you

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Speaker 1: know how I am and have a box of Kleani

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Speaker 1: for every commercial break we ever had. I can hardly

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Speaker 1: stand it. And you know, these parents love their children

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Speaker 1: just as much as I love mine, and just the

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Speaker 1: thought of it, the thought of them doing this, I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm going to do anything I can to prevent that.

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Speaker 1: You this is for parents. They have to have somebody, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean parents. I mean I'm just a lawyer for

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Speaker 1: Pete's sake, you know, I'm a crime victim that's trying

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Speaker 1: to make a change in the world. I don't know

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Speaker 1: all all of the intricacies of therapy and how the

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Speaker 1: mind works in psychology. Let me give this number again,

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Speaker 1: the National Suicide Prevention Line if you have any concern

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Speaker 1: about yourself or your children. One hundred two seven three

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Speaker 1: eight to five five. Everyone, thank you for being with

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Speaker 1: us today. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off. Goodbye, friend,