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Speaker 1: What's that at the bed spooky? I'm pretty sure it's dead.

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Speaker 1: It's coming this way. Wait a minute, i'd hiros dress.

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Speaker 1: Hey boo, it's me Raz, Happy Halloween time. I can't

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Speaker 1: think of a better guest to be joined by than

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Speaker 1: Michelle Bell and j who has been on this show before.

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Speaker 1: People went crazy for her, so gotta get her back

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Speaker 1: on and I'm sure I'm hoping this won't be the

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Speaker 1: last time. And if you don't know who Michelle is,

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Speaker 1: she's been on TV shows like Paranormal State and one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites, Portal to Hell, and she's been on

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Speaker 1: this show also, And so if you want to go

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Speaker 1: back and hear more about her haunted AIRB and B

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Speaker 1: her psychic abilities. She's also a demonologist, you can go

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Speaker 1: back and listen. Actually, not that long ago, maybe six

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Speaker 1: months ago or so. She was on the show that

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Speaker 1: was posted on April fifteenth, and it was a two parter,

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Speaker 1: so also April twenty second, so go check that out

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Speaker 1: as well. She also was a great website that is

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Speaker 1: very comprehensive. She's written a lot of books as well,

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Speaker 1: So on this week's episode today we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking more about that haunted airb and b of hers

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Speaker 1: and you know, protecting yourself from dark energies, and we

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Speaker 1: get into psychic vampirism, which is something I don't think

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Speaker 1: has ever come up on the show. And this is

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Speaker 1: also going to be a two part so we'll have

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Speaker 1: more to talk about next week with Michelle as well.

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Speaker 1: And this week on Patreon, I asked her a question

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Speaker 1: I've always wondered. Can human spirits possess living humans? You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like it's always so always talking

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Speaker 1: about these demons are possessing people, but like, you know,

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Speaker 1: could just like you know, your good old fashioned ghost

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Speaker 1: get inside of a human. And Michelle had an answer

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Speaker 1: and an incredible story to share. So that's on my

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Speaker 1: second tier Patreon Patreon dot com slash roles dres Falas.

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Speaker 1: And while I'm promoting things, I should also tell you

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Speaker 1: that indeed, the first live show back after Lockdown and everything,

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Speaker 1: a COVID Safe Ghosted live show in Los Angeles, has

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Speaker 1: sold out. So I've decided to add another show and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do that on Saturday of Halloween weekend,

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Speaker 1: So it's Saturday, the thirtieth of October, and that is

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Speaker 1: at the Cavern clubs, celebrity theater at Casita del Campo,

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Speaker 1: gorgeous Mexican restaurant. Eat, go, eat some Mexican food, and

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Speaker 1: then come on down, come on down to the little

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Speaker 1: theater that people say is haunted. And I've got some

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Speaker 1: silly you know, just typical raws, stupid, silly paranormal comedy

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Speaker 1: for you. And I'm also gonna have a surprise guest

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Speaker 1: or too. Different shows, different nights, well, different guests, different nights.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there'll be similarities between the shows, so if

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Speaker 1: you're able to go, that will be the thirtieth. I

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Speaker 1: have the ticket link in the description of this episode,

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Speaker 1: and also in there the ghosted merch link is back up.

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Speaker 1: It was down for a minute, it's back. I've got pins,

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Speaker 1: I've got stickers, I've got t shirts, I've got teut bags.

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Speaker 1: You can find all of that in the description of

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Speaker 1: this episode. Okay, I think it's time to get into

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Speaker 1: another conversation with one of my favorite guests, Michelle Bell

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Speaker 1: and Jay On with the show. I am so honored

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Speaker 1: to be joined again by one of the most brilliant

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Speaker 1: minds on the occult, the paranormal, the supernatural, all the

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Speaker 1: things that we love to talk about. Michelle Bellanjay, welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Hello, thank you for having me again.

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Speaker 1: I loved having you last time, and you answered so

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Speaker 1: many of my questions. And don't you worry, I have

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Speaker 1: got I've got a lot more for you. I was

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Speaker 1: actually just watching I stumbled upon this show that I've

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Speaker 1: fallen in love with on Netflix. It's called what is

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Speaker 1: it called The Most the World's Most Amazing Vacation Rentals?

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Speaker 1: And who do I see but you and the B

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Speaker 1: and B your Airbnb, your haunted Airbnb that we talked

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Speaker 1: about the last time you were here, and I loved it?

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Speaker 1: How was that? How was that experience having them come by?

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Speaker 2: The hardest thing was keeping quiet about it for nearly

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Speaker 2: two years because that was in the works for a

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Speaker 2: while and the pandemic sort of hung it up a

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Speaker 2: little bit. But they were so sweet. I love the hosts.

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Speaker 1: They're so cute. I love them so much energy.

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Speaker 2: They were just enthusiastic about everything, and the folks who

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Speaker 2: filmed there were very respectful of the place and as

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Speaker 2: for like. As for inspiration House's debut on a television show,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have asked for better because it was more

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Speaker 2: about the house and its history and why I love

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Speaker 2: it than just trying to make it spooky sensational.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it does seem like a very positive haunting.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not a spooky haunting from what I've

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Speaker 1: seen and from what you've said. So have you have

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Speaker 1: you considered or has it come up or I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you can answer, I'm not sure, but having

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Speaker 1: other paranormal shows go to the house, I.

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Speaker 2: Am definitely open to the possibility. I know that one

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Speaker 2: thing working against it for that is the fact that

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Speaker 2: it's not a really scary haunting. Yes, multiple people have

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Speaker 2: died in the house, but they all died of natural causes.

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Speaker 2: There's no deep, dark, spooky history. It's just a charming haunting.

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Speaker 2: It is really active though, like the music boxes play

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Speaker 2: by themselves. You hear people walking up and down the halls,

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Speaker 2: doors open and closed, the typewriter types, and on multiple occasions,

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Speaker 2: like the order, the basement will rattle like somebody's on

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Speaker 2: the other side of it. So kind of horror movie

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Speaker 2: level stuff and yet also nothing threatening, just really physical.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's the thing these paranormal shows. They always

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Speaker 1: wanted to be the scariest. Yeah, for the first time

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Speaker 1: in television history. We're gonna see the devil walk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what they want.

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Speaker 2: Toddy Dimmon's an inspiration House. They are things that I

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Speaker 2: brought there myself, with the things into the display room.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. We actually last time you were here, we didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about why the house is haunted. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: the story of that.

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Speaker 2: I wish I knew precisely why, But I think it's

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Speaker 2: a combination of the land place, the age of the house,

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Speaker 2: and possibly what it's constructed of. Something about inspiration House

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Speaker 2: really holds onto energy and emotional impressions, and this is

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Speaker 2: something that we find in a lot of classic hauntings

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Speaker 2: every place, from Waverley Hills to trans Eleganty Lunatic Asylum

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Speaker 2: to all the haunted prisons. Most of them are of

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Speaker 2: a brick or stone construction. I mean that's not exclusive,

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Speaker 2: but an awful lot of them are. And something about

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Speaker 2: where they're at and the length of time that people

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Speaker 2: either stayed there or had strong emotional experiences there, seems

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Speaker 2: to wear its way into the fabric of the space.

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Speaker 2: An Inspiration House is no different.

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Speaker 1: Huh. Yeah, because I've heard is that sort of what

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Speaker 1: like the stone Tape theory.

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Speaker 2: Is it's related to it, and some of the stone

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Speaker 2: tape theory comes down to whether or not the stones

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Speaker 2: have a high courtz content. I've heard series about it

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Speaker 2: being limestone or a high like ferros magnet like like

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Speaker 2: a lot of iron influencing electromagnetic forces. Some of that

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Speaker 2: gets into some dodgy pseudoscience, but there there is something

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Speaker 2: interesting about the topography, the actual like geology of locations

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Speaker 2: where haunts seem to occur, and I think it bears

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Speaker 2: a little bit more research than maybe has been given

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Speaker 2: to it over time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's something that I feel like I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't hear enough about, like you know, the relationship

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Speaker 1: to the earth, water, you know, all these elements. I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes people look over them and they get so

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Speaker 1: caught up on tragic murders that happen in a location

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Speaker 1: or just the deaths in general, and they don't think

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Speaker 1: about all of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and something is definitely about is connected to the

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Speaker 2: land there. Some of that might also be The house

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Speaker 2: was built in eighteen sixty nine, finished in eighteen seventy,

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Speaker 2: but there was another house on that property that predated

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Speaker 2: it that does have a very historic connection to the

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Speaker 2: Underground Railroad. Reverend James Fitch and his wife lived there.

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Speaker 2: I believe his brother in law lived there as well,

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Speaker 2: and they were connected to something called the Wellington Rescue,

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Speaker 2: where James Fitch ended up in jail for over one

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Speaker 2: hundred days. I think it might have been more than

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Speaker 2: a year, protesting the recapture of a freedom seeker, John Price.

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Speaker 2: And it was something that predated the Civil War but

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Speaker 2: really kind of fanned the flames in a way that

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Speaker 2: we would relate to sort of the George Floyd murder

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Speaker 2: these days in terms of public outcry for how people

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Speaker 2: are being treated. John Price was someone who was abducted

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Speaker 2: on his way to work. They beat him, they threw

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Speaker 2: him in a carriage. They drove him one town over

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Speaker 2: where they knew they would be received a little bit

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Speaker 2: more kindly as slave catchers from Kentucky and Oberlin, which

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Speaker 2: is where Inspiration Houses had been an abolitionist town since

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Speaker 2: its founding. And the brother in law of Reverend Fitch

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Speaker 2: heard John Price crying for help, and there was like

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Speaker 2: this daring carriage race to try to get to where

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Speaker 2: they were keeping him in prison. A ton of folks

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Speaker 2: from Overlood showed up they staged a protest, and while

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Speaker 2: they were keeping everybody occupied in the front, somebody broke

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Speaker 2: John Price out and the first place they hid him

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Speaker 2: was the Fitch property where Inspiration House currently stands.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so when you move into this player, when you

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Speaker 1: know acquire this property, did you know this history or

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Speaker 1: that it might be haunted.

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Speaker 2: I did not know that history at all. The only

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Speaker 2: reason I started to dig into the underground railroad connection

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Speaker 2: was enough of my friends and like local investigators had

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Speaker 2: gotten dps and things that started to steer them toward

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Speaker 2: the underground railroad. And I was like, but the house

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Speaker 2: was built after the Civil War, that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: And then found that what it was built on was

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Speaker 2: one of the few houses that they knew for sure

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Speaker 2: had hidden passageways and booby traps to better hide people

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Speaker 2: and to deter their capture. So the Fitches were not

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Speaker 2: messing around for their whole conductor thing like they they

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Speaker 2: were pretty into it.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. So during the pandemic, you know, I guess, really,

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Speaker 1: since I've talked to you last, which wasn't even that

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Speaker 1: long ago, has there been a lot of activity at

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Speaker 1: the house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say that when we were looking for

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Speaker 2: a place to be kind of my location for in

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Speaker 2: person classes. I'd been hoping for something that was haunted,

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Speaker 2: and when we first walked into Inspiration House, there was

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Speaker 2: definitely a feel to it, so I had a sense

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Speaker 2: that there was going to be something going on there.

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Speaker 2: I really didn't anticipate that I had hit the jackpot

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Speaker 2: in terms of a friendly spirits and be really physically

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Speaker 2: active ones with the pandemic. The one downside is I

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Speaker 2: can't do classes and stuff in person anymore, but we

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Speaker 2: do still let people go there and do self directed

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Speaker 2: stays so they can stay for a weekend, stay for

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Speaker 2: a week however long they want, and then just get

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Speaker 2: to know the house. And there's been a lot of

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Speaker 2: that going on and a lot of feedback from people

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Speaker 2: where you know, over and over again, certain consistent activity

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Speaker 2: is confirmed, including my favorite ghost on the property, a

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Speaker 2: ghost dog.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh, I like that. I mean there's something about

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Speaker 1: ghost dogs that like slightly creeps me out, only because

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Speaker 1: my I think that my legs must taste good or something,

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Speaker 1: because dogs always lick my legs, and the thought of

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Speaker 1: feeling a lick on my leg that I disembodied tongue

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Speaker 1: on my leg would scare the shit on me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what does this dog do?

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Speaker 2: People will hear him moving up and down the halls,

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Speaker 2: so like the attack of like, you know, clad feet people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: people have heard him, especially in the king bedroom, trying

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Speaker 2: to crawl up on the bed. Several people have felt

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Speaker 2: him crawl up on the bed. And he's actually a

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Speaker 2: full bodied apparition. People have mistaken him for an actual

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Speaker 2: living dog looking out the windows. We have a neighbor.

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Speaker 2: We can't convince that we don't have a dog. They

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Speaker 2: all report the same general look of a dog, which

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Speaker 2: actually fits interestingly an English setter. And because I am

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Speaker 2: a researcher of an obsessive degree, I was able to

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Speaker 2: find one of the families that moved in in the

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Speaker 2: turn of the century, the early nineteen hundreds, they had

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Speaker 2: a dog registered to the American Kennel Association. His name

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Speaker 2: was Nick Gleam and he was an English Setter. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Wow, who finds that out? I mean, that's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 2: I was really lucky. I was poking around through Google books,

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Speaker 2: just basically google whack their names to see where they

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Speaker 2: came up. And since all of it was copyright free stuff,

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Speaker 2: A circular from the American Kennels Association popped up with

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Speaker 2: the name of one of the residents, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: this is interesting, and then I'm like, holy crap, it's

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Speaker 2: the dog.

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Speaker 1: Well, so when you said that there, if there were demons,

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Speaker 1: it could have been because of something you brought in.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you why would you say that.

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Speaker 2: I have what I referred to as my big box

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Speaker 2: of demons. And it's not that there is like actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, demon spirits locked in it. But when I

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Speaker 2: was doing my book, The Dictionary of Demons for the

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Speaker 2: first edition, there were several sigils that I needed better

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Speaker 2: images of. So on the night of December thirty first,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, moving to January first, twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: I sat down with some modern parchment paper and a

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Speaker 2: fountain pen and I recreated several of these and how

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Speaker 2: there's maybe twenty twenty five of them, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to throw them out, like I scanned them, sent

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Speaker 2: them into the publisher. And so there's a big box

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Speaker 2: of these like little hand drawn siguls that I just

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Speaker 2: kind of keep around. They're not necessarily sigels for demons,

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Speaker 2: especially in the magic of the Middle Ages and renaissance

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Speaker 2: are less about While they are used in summoning, they

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Speaker 2: are more used to control and protect yourself from the spirit,

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Speaker 2: and so I usually will warn people if they go

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Speaker 2: poking around the display row. If you open this box

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Speaker 2: and you don't know what you're dealing with, this might

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Speaker 2: be really disconcerting. And also these are harmless. Really, they're

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Speaker 2: just art unless they are used in a much more

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Speaker 2: elaborate ritual setup than we have on the property, or

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Speaker 2: that most people even know how to do.

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Speaker 1: Currently, I read the second edition of Ghost Hunter's Guide

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Speaker 1: to the Occult, which I love, and I encourage people

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Speaker 1: listening to this to go out and get it and

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Speaker 1: the glossary alone. I mean, there's so much good stuff

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Speaker 1: in here. And it made me think a lot about

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Speaker 1: this kind of this idea of well your intentions with

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Speaker 1: Like the first thing I was thinking was like a

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Speaker 1: Oija board, for example, Everyone's favorite topic a Oija board.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not looking for trouble, or you're not

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Speaker 1: looking to open a door or talk to the two

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Speaker 1: demons or something, how does it still happen been or

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Speaker 1: does it still happen or what's going on with that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I mean, obviously Ouiji boards are pretty controversial, although

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Speaker 2: mostly that reputation was earned through the movie The Exorcist.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of pop culture baggage that comes with this.

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Speaker 2: In the late eighteen hundreds early early twentieth century, Wiji

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Speaker 2: boards were a parlor game, like literally a way of

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Speaker 2: just sitting around. Sometimes it was an excuse for a

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Speaker 2: lady and her gentleman friend to bend very closely over

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Speaker 2: a table in close quarters and flirt with one another,

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Speaker 2: and sort of the way that I think in the

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Speaker 2: seventies and the eighties you would take your girlfriend to

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Speaker 2: or your friend of choice to a scary movie and

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Speaker 2: hope that everybody would be so upset that you would

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Speaker 2: have to wrapprehand around them and like pull them in

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Speaker 2: tight to comfort them.

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Speaker 1: Class So orig that flix and chill.

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Speaker 2: It really was. But what we see with Wiji boards

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Speaker 2: in their pop culture presentation really gives them a reputation

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Speaker 2: that they don't deserve. There any other method of spirit communication.

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Speaker 2: You will see people on ghost shows using everything from

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Speaker 2: a K two meter to a novelist to a spirit box,

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Speaker 2: and every one of these is using in theory a

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Speaker 2: spirit stability to affect something physical to then give the

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Speaker 2: living audience a physical palpable communication. Wijia boards no different.

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Speaker 2: The real trouble with the Ouiji board is what it

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Speaker 2: probably operates on in most cases, and I would see,

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Speaker 2: like probably ninety five percent of the time something called

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Speaker 2: idio motor response. So you're sitting there with this board

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Speaker 2: and you have a planch that's the little pointer, and

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Speaker 2: everybody puts a couple of fingers on that, or if

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Speaker 2: you're doing it solo, you put your fingers on it,

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Speaker 2: and you're holding your hands over that very carefully, expecting

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Speaker 2: or dreading it to move at some point. Well, our

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Speaker 2: bodies do micro motions, like there's a small amount of

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Speaker 2: movement that we're doing unconsciously, whether we mean to or not,

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Speaker 2: and with the expectation that this is an object that

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Speaker 2: will move in response to communications. It's very easy for

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Speaker 2: us to set up the expectation and to unconsciously cause

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Speaker 2: it to move, not even when somebody's trying to fake it,

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Speaker 2: but without meaning to. Often the movement is caused by

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Speaker 2: the people who are sitting on the board, which is

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Speaker 2: also why it's so frequently likely to tell you the

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Speaker 2: things that you are expecting to hear, or the things

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Speaker 2: you hear you fear most.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, it's no fun if you're at a slump

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Speaker 1: party and the wija boards just like, Hi, you look

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Speaker 1: pretty like now people they wanted to say something terrifying.

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Speaker 2: I have a slumber party memory with a Ouiji board

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Speaker 2: where and I can only imagine I know the friends

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Speaker 2: that I was with so where we had a long

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Speaker 2: dissertation about which of our teachers were virgins.

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Speaker 1: So, but what I'm wondering is similar to what I

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Speaker 1: was just thinking with a wija board. If you have

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Speaker 1: these symbols in your home that like, for example, I

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Speaker 1: see a lot of Baphomet merch these days, and I

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Speaker 1: think some people might think that that draws demons towards you,

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Speaker 1: or you know, having these items a pentagram upside down

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Speaker 1: or you know, these things can can that happen? Are they?

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Speaker 1: Are they? You know? Signals for dark energies?

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Speaker 2: Not really. A symbol has exactly as much power and

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Speaker 2: meaning as the person who's using it gives to it.

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Speaker 2: So if you've acquired this because you want to put

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Speaker 2: it on your altar, and you are using it as

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Speaker 2: a focal point for the spirit of bafume or anything,

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Speaker 2: then it will have more ability to connect to that,

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Speaker 2: But most of that ability is coming from you, the person,

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Speaker 2: than the object. And I've seen that again and again.

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Speaker 2: It's important to keep in mind that some symbols that

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Speaker 2: we as a culture will look at and find incredibly terrifying.

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Speaker 2: A five pointed star, even an upside down five pointed star,

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Speaker 2: has been sort of promoted as a Satanic symbol. But

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Speaker 2: if you go back one hundred years, one hundred and

347
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Speaker 2: fifty years, you may find a five pointed start, even

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Speaker 2: upside down as an architectural device, even in certain churches,

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Speaker 2: even as hex symbols on barns in Pennsylvania. It's an

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Speaker 2: old symbol and it's had many uses, and in order

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Speaker 2: to understand what it's supposed to do, you have to

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Speaker 2: understand the context. So that alone tells us that it's

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Speaker 2: not the symbol itself. It's the intention. It's the use

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Speaker 2: that is being put to, and it's the people who

355
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Speaker 2: are making use of it. So if you just buy

356
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Speaker 2: it because it looks cool and you want to like

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Speaker 2: class up your Halloween sort of atmosphere, you are not

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Speaker 2: going to have a house full of terrifying things unless

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Speaker 2: you really want it. Ah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, but what about the fact that I constantly

361
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Speaker 1: am the opposite, like stay away, stay away, stay away?

362
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Speaker 1: Does does that work that way? Does it really keep

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Speaker 1: them away?

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00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: Most spirits are polite and will listen to boundaries when

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Speaker 2: you set them. There are obviously exceptions to the rule,

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Speaker 2: in the same way that there's exceptions of the rule

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Speaker 2: with people. Most people, if you say, hey, don't touch me,

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Speaker 2: they will in fact respect that. And then there are

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Speaker 2: a few people who are just awful. And the same

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Speaker 2: goes for the spirit world. There are some things that

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Speaker 2: are awful, but they're really not as widespread as so

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Speaker 2: many of the shows and movies make them out to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm always talking about ghosts touching people and

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Speaker 1: not asking for consent and just they just if they

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Speaker 1: want to touch you. They seems like they just go

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Speaker 1: ahead and touch you. But if I tell that, if

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Speaker 1: I walk into a haunted space and say, don't touch me,

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Speaker 1: do you think that that will work? Typically I do

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Speaker 1: that all the time.

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Speaker 2: It's the one thing that crosses the line for me,

381
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Speaker 2: and I do not like to be touched unless I

382
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Speaker 2: have invited the touch. And that goes for a living people,

383
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Speaker 2: dead people in between. So yeah, I make a point

384
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Speaker 2: of saying, like I basically of setting the rules of engagement.

385
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Speaker 2: What boundaries of interaction am I willing to tolerate. I

386
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: don't have a problem with things communicating in images and words,

387
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: you know, passing emotions along so I can feel them,

388
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Speaker 2: but you know, don't grab me.

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Speaker 1: Have you been grabbed by an unseen force?

390
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Speaker 2: A couple of times when I was younger, I had

391
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Speaker 2: something I could push me down on the bed in

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Speaker 2: a way that I really did not like at a

393
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: hotel in Wisconsin, Milwaukee that was I would have written

394
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: it off as a night terror, except the same thing

395
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Speaker 2: happened to my buddy who was sleeping in the room

396
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Speaker 2: as well. And when we compare notes, we had had

397
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Speaker 2: identical experiences.

398
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Speaker 1: Like it pushed you like you were standing and it

399
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: pushed you down or.

400
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 2: Held me down. I was, I was already down on

401
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: the bed, and there was it was that classic like

402
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: hag attack of something like looming over you and pressing

403
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: you into the bed and not being able to get up.

404
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: And like I said, I pretty logically was like, well,

405
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: this is this is just a you know, sleep paralysis.

406
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: But my buddy was acting kind of cagey as well.

407
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: And I'm like, hey, are you sleeping okay in this room?

408
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: Then he's like, nope, tell me what you experienced. And

409
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: you know we're up there for gen con so or

410
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: not gen coin was it? Was it origins Gaming Convention?

411
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: Big geek thing?

412
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Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah. I've always felt that sleep paralysis gets real

413
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: uh freaky seeky when more than one person experiences it,

414
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Speaker 1: or you know, if anytime someone sleeps in that room

415
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: they experience And that's when I'm like, I don't know

416
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: if this is just a sleep paralysis occurrence.

417
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: That's usually my measuring stick for whether or not it's

418
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: not straight up sleep paralysis if multiple people are experiencing it,

419
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: or if when someone is experiencing sleep paralysis, someone else

420
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: in the room or the house is also perceiving something,

421
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: or if pets are responding to a presence, that makes

422
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: me want to dig a little deeper into what's going on.

423
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: What do you know about the sleeping on your face

424
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: as opposed to your back or you sleep on your

425
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: stomach as opposed to your back with sleep paralysis because

426
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Speaker 1: I'm always sleeping on my stomach because I've heard that

427
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen if you as much. If you do.

428
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: That Is that true?

429
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Speaker 2: Ncdotally, if you sleep on your back, you are more

430
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: prone to it. But I I don't know what the

431
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: statistics are for that, whether or not it's been like

432
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: one hundred percent scientifically proven. I will say for myself,

433
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: I do a lot of dreamwork and a lot of

434
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: visionary stuff while I'm sleeping. If I want to contain

435
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: like a sort of hypnogogic consciousness like that in between

436
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: state between sleeping and waking, doing it while on my

437
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: back is better. I'm more likely to just fall asleep

438
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: if I roll over on my side.

439
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the occult some more, because now

440
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've got so much on my mind from

441
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: reading your book, and uh, you know a lot about

442
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: this stuff. I don't know how a human can have

443
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: so much knowledge. You are you blow my mind. But

444
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: I guess that's a simple question. What what is the occult?

445
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: It really means secret, hidden. I think it the same

446
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: root word as occluded. I know a lot of people

447
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: these days will see occult and all they hear is

448
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: cult and think that it means, you know, dark satanic evil,

449
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: and that's really misleading. Anything that delves into the hidden

450
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: or mysterious side of our experiences, and the world is

451
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: technically occult. So the paranormal thirty forty fifty years ago

452
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: certainly would have still be seen as the occult. We've

453
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: just kind of rebranded it these days. I would say

454
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: that most people who use the term occult or occultist

455
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: as a personal identifier are folks who are proving for me,

456
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: folks who are probing a little more deeply than simply

457
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: ghost where there's a little bit more practice of magic,

458
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: a little bit more ritual research, delving into some of

459
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: the more forbidden aspects, or at least things perceived to

460
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: be forbidden, the study not only of human spirits, but

461
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 2: of non human entities, even demons.

462
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: Well that's the part that I can't help. But I'm

463
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: drawn to the spooky shaitan me too. So what is

464
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: the benefit of a ghost hunter knowing about the occult?

465
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: First and foremost, if you are educated in the occult,

466
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: you are better able to assess what might actually have

467
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: happened in a location, confirm or rule out claims that

468
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: there were rituals or some sort of like Satanic sacrifice,

469
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: because you are able to recognize accurate symbols accurate relics

470
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: of ritual activity as opposed to, know, some fifteen year

471
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: old who was listening to too much Ozzy Osbourne and

472
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: just decided to slap a bunch of weird things on

473
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: the wall and feel really spooky, which you know, not

474
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: to knock that, Like there's some fun in that, but

475
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: it easily gets mistaken for much more formal and effective

476
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: ritual work. In addition to that, there are a lot

477
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: of techniques in occult practices for dealing with spirits, not

478
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: only experiencing them, but finding ways to protect yourself against them,

479
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: to protect a space against them, to drive things out,

480
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: to recognize what's good, what's bad, what's in between, and

481
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: you don't want to, you know, get on its bad side,

482
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: but it'll be fine if you leave it alone.

483
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the protection part again constantly like I'll try

484
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: anything like what crystal do I need to buy? Like

485
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm constantly and it always goes back to the fact

486
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about demons all the time and joking

487
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: and and I just just don't want them to show

488
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: up one day and say, hey, we heard you're running

489
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: your mouth. So I definitely am fascinated and curious. The

490
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: part that I will constantly keep going back to in

491
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: this book is the parts about protection, which uh so

492
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: again with the intent and and that sort of conversation

493
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: seems to be pretty a pretty big common thread throughout

494
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: a lot of this is, you know, is saying a

495
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: prayer or lighting your or your palo santo? Is that

496
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: enough for or do you need to believe it? Can

497
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: someone just do that stuff because they read it in

498
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: a book and they're good to go, or is there

499
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: another step to it?

500
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: With the belief, it definitely helps for it to be

501
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: meaningful to you to just grab a bundle of sage

502
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: and try to act out what you think is a

503
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: Native American ceremony without context or background, you are not

504
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: going to have the same result. Which also means if

505
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: smoke cleansing is something that resonates with you, you don't

506
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: have to strictly settle for sage. There's a whole history

507
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: of different types of incense and things that you could use,

508
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: and I always recommend to people to experiment with what

509
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: feels like it resonates for them. You know, does polo

510
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: santo seem like it is something that clears things for

511
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: you better? Are you more of a lavender and rosemary.

512
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 2: Person I personally like benzoin and sandalwood and frankincense. Actually

513
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: not all at once. It's either frankincense or benzouin with

514
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: a little sandalwood. The idea, especially in terms of smoke cleansing,

515
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: is that the smoke itself is sort of like the

516
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: closest physical thing to the energy of the spirit world,

517
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 2: and so you're sort of vibing with that to kind

518
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: of crisscross between your realm and their roalm to get

519
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: this stuff to cleanse. Now, I think it's also important

520
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: to note that several of the things traditionally used for cleansing,

521
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: especially with smoke cleansing, also have antiseptic, antibacterial, and antiviral properties.

522
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 2: So there's a very real likelihood that some of those

523
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: traditions were handed down to us by our ancestors because

524
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: they literally helped to clean a space.

525
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: Well, what I've also heard in more recent times that

526
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: say to really had her moment, and now there's been

527
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: lots of problems with over harvesting and just lots of

528
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: shadiness going on with that. So I think it is

529
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: good for people to explore other options besides just sage. Yeah,

530
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of the most popular, most commonly

531
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: known one. But yeah, I like to hear about the

532
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: other stuff too well. So let's say you don't have

533
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: access to this stuff, or you don't have any prayers

534
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: of protection committed to memory. So so then what.

535
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: So salt Supernatural got a few things right? Or I

536
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: should say that the folks who are writing Supernatural clearly

537
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: read a few books. Salt has been used for cleansing

538
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: for a long time. It's very popular among a lot

539
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: of witches. Wigan practice. You don't necessarily need to use

540
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: like an entire higher you know, box of morton salt

541
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: and roll it across the threshold and all of the windows.

542
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: It's more seen as a sink for negative energy. So

543
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: in the eighties, I remember raiki practitioners having like a

544
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: little ball, a little bowl of salt, or a big

545
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: salt crystal, one of those pink Bibetan lamps, the supposedly

546
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: humalayan rock salt.

547
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: Oh, I have one just because I heard it could

548
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: it might help.

549
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: They when they were clearing some people's energy, or when

550
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: they felt that they were clearing out negativity. They would

551
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: then focus it and literally like place it into the salt,

552
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 2: almost like the recycling bind as a way to sort

553
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: of imagine sending that back to the Earth or whatever

554
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 2: forces then can take it and clear it and cycle

555
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: the negative out of it without destroying the energy itself.

556
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: A really quick and easy technique that builds on that

557
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 2: that I recommended to people. And this is something you

558
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: can do because you have it in your house. If

559
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: you feel overwhelmed by something or there's there's something you

560
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: want to let go of, get a little bit of salt,

561
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 2: put it in your hand, close your hand around it,

562
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: think about what you're trying to let go of, and

563
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: then just wash it off your hand, down the sink,

564
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: let it go.

565
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: Hmm, okay.

566
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: Ninety nine percent of magic is also psychology. It helps

567
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: you focus your intention. It gives you a meaningful symbol

568
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: to kind of hang onto. So you have a tangible thing.

569
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: So salt, smoke from various things. If you're asthmatic or

570
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: allergic to smoke, don't worry about it. You don't have

571
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: to use sage. Water is also another thing that has

572
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: a long standing history as a cleansing agent. We see

573
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: that with like the power of Christ compels you, you know,

574
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: throwing the Holy water all over the room. But the

575
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: Catholics aren't the only ones who have in a corner

576
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: of the market on the idea of holy water as

577
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: something that clears and cleanses and blesses is something you

578
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: can find in multiple religious systems as well as well

579
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: as folk traditions. And again we've all got that. Just

580
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: nip into the bathroom you want to clear something off,

581
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: put on the tap, put your hands under it, and

582
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: just let whatever you need to let go of flow

583
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: down the drain and also let that sensation of the

584
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: cool water on your wrists and your hands help you

585
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: focus on what you want to let go of. It

586
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: also help you bring yourself back to your body, being grounded,

587
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 2: being centered, reminding yourself that you are in your body

588
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: in this moment and you are in control is probably

589
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: the most powerful tool you have for protecting yourself.

590
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: There's also the ball of white light. That's something that

591
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: I hear about a lot.

592
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: Yes, that is really called shielding, and it is again

593
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: another technique where you're using a focus to remind yourself

594
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: that you have boundaries, that you have barriers, that you

595
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: can be protected. You can do this through your own

596
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,959
Speaker 2: will power where it doesn't have to be a ball

597
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: of white light. It can be any kind of shield

598
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: or protective thing. There. There's a really really ancient prayer

599
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: that was adopted into Judaism and Christianity. I don't know

600
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 2: if it has a cognate in Islam, and I apologize

601
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: for that lack, but it goes back to Summer and Babylon,

602
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: where you've got Michael on my right and Gabriel on

603
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: my left, and basically you space out the four corners

604
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: with different entities that you find protective. In Sumer and Babylon,

605
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: it was Shamish and Inky and a couple of other

606
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: gods that were associated with protection from from demail and

607
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: evil spirits. But you think about being protected at your

608
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: right and on your left, before you and behind you,

609
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: above you, and below you, and going through those steps.

610
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: Protection on my right hand, protection on my left hand,

611
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: protection in front of me, protection behind me, protection above me,

612
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: protection beneath me. Helps to orient you focus. You remind

613
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: yourself that you have boundaries, that there is a step

614
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: between you and the rest of the world, whether you

615
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 2: see that as something that you're holding in your mind

616
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: as a conceptual barrier of white light or whatever, or

617
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: as something that you are asking for outside of yourself,

618
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: a higher power to also facilitate in setting up those boundaries.

619
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: So is it too unfocused if somebody maybe like me,

620
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: it does a little bit of everything.

621
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's too unfocused. I think that

622
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: there's a lot of power in trying things out and

623
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: seeing what works for you. Right, and really like this

624
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: Morgesborg technique is fine.

625
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: That's definitely what's going on over here. So when we're

626
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: talking about like protecting ourselves from energies, this applies to

627
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: both humans and you know, other worldly forces, right. Yeah,

628
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: So can we talk about psychic vamporism, which I know

629
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: is a topic you know a lot about. I've never

630
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: talked about this with anybody.

631
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So what is it? Psychic vamporism is the

632
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: ability some people have to take energy, vitality, spirit from

633
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: other people. Most of the time we're present with the

634
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: idea of a psychic vampire as a negative person. So

635
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: think of there are two broad topics for this, and

636
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I will call them Old Aunt Edna and that ass

637
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: while at work, because we've all encountered these where you've

638
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: got like this elderly relative who maybe she doesn't get

639
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: out so much anymore, and she doesn't have a whole

640
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: lot of like social stimulation. And when you come over

641
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 2: to visit, you will hear about every possible bad thing

642
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: that has gone on in her life, all of the drama,

643
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: from her bunions to her hemorrhoids, to the fact that

644
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: like her dog vomited on her sneakers that day, and

645
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: like she just you can feel her without meaning to,

646
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: just literally sucking the life and the very will to

647
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: live out of you. And by the time you're done,

648
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 2: you kind of drag us out and you're just like, oh,

649
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: but why do I do this to myself? And she's

650
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: very chipper now that she's you know, basically sucked you

651
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: dry of your attention and your emotions and has almost

652
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: certainly not the first clue that there was anything other

653
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: than a conversation in that that she was what some

654
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: people might call a vampire.

655
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: Okay, the other.

656
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 2: Person also may not be conscious of it. They might

657
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: also be to some extent aware that they're preying on people.

658
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: And this is the person who's a little bit more

659
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: aggressive about it. They still find a way to push buttons.

660
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: They will usually get up in your personal space. They

661
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: will find ways to incite strong emotional reactions, usually through confrontation,

662
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 2: but sometimes just in guilt or shame, and they will

663
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: incite this. They will find ways to create charged emotional

664
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: interactions with people, and they clearly get something out of it.

665
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: They are motivated by this need to pray off people

666
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: to feel more powerful than them. They may also be

667
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: a hybrid of aunt edna, and we see that in

668
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: what we do in the Shadows with Colin, who is

669
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: not necessarily aggressive all the time, but certainly just sucks

670
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: the life out of people by not letting them go

671
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: just constantly, is like, you know, just sipping off of

672
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: their attention and their focus. So there's some psychological things

673
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: that can be going on with that. But if you

674
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: believe that there is such a thing as energy or

675
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: life force, that like reiki practitioners and shegoing specialists to

676
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: work with every conversation we have, every interaction with another

677
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: human being, there's some exchange that happens, and it's usually

678
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: an equal exchange. Theater people are probably the most keenly

679
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: aware of how this works. It Usually they don't frame

680
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: it in terms of psychicism or metaphysics. It's simply how

681
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: theater works. Where if you're up there on the stage

682
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: and the audience is not engaged, all of the energy

683
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: you put into your performance just sort of falls flat

684
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: and you end up exhausted by the end of it.

685
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, right, you know how that goes? Like,

686
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: there's there's this feel but you can feel when you're

687
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: up on stage, when it's clicking, when everything that you're

688
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: putting out is actually getting put back to you and

689
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: then some and so it turns into this this reciprocal cycle.

690
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: There is a give and take between you and the

691
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: audience where everybody goes home feeling better.

692
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, stand up comedy is that. I mean, I've done

693
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: a lot of stand up, I've done a lot of theater,

694
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: and and I've noticed that, like with stand up, if

695
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: it's not going well, you have to figure out how

696
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: to make it go well. Like with theater, if it's

697
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: not going well, you have to keep doing the thing.

698
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: Any stand up it's like, oh no, the energy is off.

699
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: How do I get this energy back? And that is

700
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: it can be very exhausting.

701
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: My favorite performer who is aware that this is a

702
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: psychic effect as well as just how theater works, Dolly Parton. Oh,

703
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: there is an interview. There is an interview where she

704
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: straight up says I'm a psychic vampire.

705
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: Wow what that is, and.

706
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: Explains how that works and how she uses it as

707
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: a performer. So the aunt Edna and the asphalt Works

708
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: representations that I gave, those are folks who don't necessarily

709
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: know what they're doing. Some people need more energy than others.

710
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: Sort of makes sense, like some people are like really

711
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 2: really high energy, some people less so, and some of

712
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: those people have an invulnerability to take it from others

713
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: if they need it. And a conscious psychic vampire is

714
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: someone he's just figured out how that works and can

715
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: do it consciously and within the community, there are people

716
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: who realize that this is a capacity that they have.

717
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 2: It's part of their psychic ability, part of like their

718
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: particular relationship with energy, and they simply choose to do

719
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 2: it in ways that are not destructive. See also Dolly Parton,

720
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: who makes use of enormous crowds to get this cycle

721
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: going in order to sustain what she needs, or or

722
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: someone like me where I will do exchanges with someone

723
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: who is trained in energy work, has enough to spare

724
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: and is consensual in this exchange.

725
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: So in theory, if a human is a psychic vampire

726
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: and they die and now they're a ghost. Does the

727
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: ghost is the ghost you know, still a psychic vampire.

728
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: Someone suck the life out of you.

729
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 2: Some of the some works about psycho vamporism and astro

730
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: vamporism absolutely say yes. Now. I also think all spirits

731
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: are vampiric to some degree or another. Every ghost hunter

732
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: has experienced the fairly widespread battery drain, but more than that,

733
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: the sense of going into a space and feeling really exhausted,

734
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: like really oppressed on some level when it is a

735
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: very active haunting. There's a point right before something physical

736
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 2: happens in haunted places that everybody can feel a shift

737
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: in the energy. A lot of people will parse it

738
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: a little bit like a barometric pressure shift, but many

739
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: others will feel like something's been taken out of the

740
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: space in order to fuel this effect. Personally, I believe

741
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: that all spirits being energy need to support what they

742
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: do and how they exist, and they need to eat

743
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 2: and then it can no longer go down to the

744
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 2: McDonald's and have a hamburger, so they need to take energy.

745
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: And I also think that living psychic vampires are folks

746
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: I actually, I know for a fact that all the

747
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: living psychic vampires that I know who are at least

748
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 2: conscious about it are also fairly powerful energy workers in psychics.

749
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: They're fueling something and they need fuel more than what

750
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 2: they can eat with just you know, regular flesh and blood.

751
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: Wow, well thanks for that. I didn't you know. It's

752
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: never come up, so thank you. I think it's a

753
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: good thing to know about.

754
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 3: Handy handed Any tip if you think that you have

755
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: if you think that you are being victimized by psychic vampire,

756
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: first thing, move out of whatever.

757
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: Room you're in. If you're interacting with people, the highest

758
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: likelihood is it's someone that you just interacted with in

759
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: the past fifteen minutes. It's probablyably someone who either made

760
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 2: physical contact or eye contact with you. It's probably somebody

761
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: who talked to you. They may not be aware that

762
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: they are taking your energy and that they're feeding off

763
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 2: of you, which makes it kind of awkward to ask

764
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 2: them to stop. So if you move yourself out of

765
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: their sphere of control, out of their space, you're likely

766
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: to break their contact, their focus on you, and then

767
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 2: just step into a bathroom or somewhere where you can

768
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: control the space. Take a few moments to collect yourself,

769
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: kind of check in to make sure that what you're

770
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: feeling isn't just you know, a panic attack or you know,

771
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: asi reflux or something worse that's just purely physical. And

772
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: if you're still one hundred percent sure this is an

773
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 2: energetic thing, go through that step that I suggested with

774
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: turn on the taps on the water, put your hands

775
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 2: under the water, feel the water going over your wrists

776
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: and your hands. Bring yourself back into your body. Remind

777
00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: yourself that you do have boundaries, and assert those boundaries

778
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 2: through whatever method of shielding works for you, whether that

779
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: is the ball of white light or actually calling on

780
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 2: a higher power. But make sure that by the end

781
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: of it you have a strong sense of where you

782
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 2: begin and the rest of the world ends. And also

783
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 2: that you have both the right and that you are sorry,

784
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: and also that you are carrying your protections, that you

785
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: have a right to be protected, that you are not

786
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: a victim.

787
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: So how is this different than obsessing spirits?

788
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 2: I don't find too much of a difference. Some of

789
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: it depends on the ultimate influence and intent of the spirit.

790
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: Obsessing spirits that are trying to obsess or oppress a

791
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: person will kind of connect to that person. Think of

792
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: them like psychic lampreys or leeches. They make a can

793
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: to the person, and sometimes they're content to just slurp

794
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: off a little of your energy and your vitality.

795
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, blurp off a little.

796
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 2: Some of them need a little bit more of an

797
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: emotional engagement. Again, think about those psychic vampire examples, where

798
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 2: strong emotional reactions get more out of the engagement. So

799
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 2: some obsessing entities prefer terror, prefer your pain, prefer your depression,

800
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: and they will find ways to incite those reactions. They

801
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: will exude them until you mistake those emotions for your

802
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: own and feedback into whatever cycle they prefer. In my opinion,

803
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 2: some of the most devastating psychic attacks and spiritual attacks

804
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: are things randomly scratching you or or pushing you. It's

805
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: something that puts out a miasma of negative emotion that's

806
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: so subtle you don't realize it's not yours. Before you

807
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: know it, you're just sort of soaked in achy horrible negativity,

808
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: whether it's depression or stuff that verges on suicidal ideation,

809
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: or anger and rage and fury, and you're so saturated

810
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 2: you no longer stop to ask why do I feel

811
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 2: like this? Is this me? You just act on it.

812
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: Now. Is this different than possession?

813
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: Yes, there are sort of stages that lead up to possession.

814
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: That can be a stage that leads to full possession,

815
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: and not everything is trying to possess people. Some spirits

816
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 2: really are motive to want to crawl around in a

817
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: person's skin. I think of them a little bit, at

818
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 2: least some of them, like teenagers that want a joy

819
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: ride in a car. They don't really care so much

820
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: about the body, at least not in the long term.

821
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 2: They want something out of being able to be in

822
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: a physical body, whether it's pleasure, whether it's causing violence,

823
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: whether it's just the thrill of it. So it usually

824
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: goes oppression, obsession, possession where something is sort of think

825
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,479
Speaker 2: of it in terms of orbit. Something is orbiting near

826
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: you and starting to have an influence on how you feel.

827
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 2: Something has attached to the outside of you and is

828
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: having a more significant impact on how you think, how

829
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: you feel, how you react. And then something finds a

830
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: way inside of you, has warned you down to a

831
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: point where where it can steer some of your movements,

832
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,879
Speaker 2: make you say things make you do things. Maybe you're

833
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 2: conscious while this is happening, and maybe it's full possession

834
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: where the person who was born into that body is

835
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: shoved in a corner and may have no recollection of

836
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: the possessory state. Now that sounds terrifying, and I think

837
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: it's important to mention that there are a number of

838
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: religious and spiritual traditions where that is a desired state

839
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: under certain circumstances. Voodoo is probably the best example where

840
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 2: transpossessory states are a part of worship and spirit interaction.

841
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: But there are very very clear circumstances under which that

842
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 2: is engaged with. There's structure, there's protections in place so

843
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: that you know broadly what's going to take you over

844
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: and how, and there are people there to basically act

845
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: as your spotters.

846
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Michelle Belanja. And if you

847
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 1: want to hear just a little bit more, gootopatreon dot com,

848
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: slash roz dress Las in my second tier you can

849
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: hear what Michelle has to say about human spirits possessing

850
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: living humans. Also, go get you some ghosted merch in

851
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: the description of this episode, and a ticket to the

852
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: live show, which will be happening on the thirtieth in

853
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: silver like Los Angeles, California. You can find that link

854
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: in this description of this episode. And I should also

855
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: tell you that Michelle will be back next week and

856
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: we get into religions and we you know, we're talking

857
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: more occult stuff and it's fantastic. So make sure you're subscribed.

858
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: Tell your friends about the show right at five stars

859
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860
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: are you listening? If you have a ghost or you

861
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: could leave it in a five star review, you could

862
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,919
Speaker 1: put it in our Facebook group called Ghosted by Roz

863
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: dress Fales. I want to do a listener episode again soon,

864
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,200
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865
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode. You

866
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Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at Roz Hernandez. I'm on

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Speaker 1: cameo Roz dress fALS. Wow, I have a lot to

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Speaker 1: say about myself. I love you all, both living and dead.

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Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't

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Speaker 1: haunt me. Came Back Star a podcast network