WEBVTT - INTERVIEW: Devi Brown On Achieving 'Higher Consciousness', Embracing Grief, Developing Self Mastery + More 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.800 Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning. 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:09.039 Everybody is j Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne de God. We 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.479 are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:12.000 the building. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.840 My good sister, longtime friend, DeBie Brown is back here. 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.400 Good morning, Good morning, y'all. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.079 Oh my god, How you feel on book publishing day? 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.599 I feel free? Yeah, I feel so free. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:27.840 I've had a lot of anxiety about it for the 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.920 last few weeks. You know, what's like, you know that 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.800 creative birthing, and like there's a lot of like vulnerable 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.680 stories in it, and you're like, did I do that? 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.400 Should I have done this? But yeah, now I just 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:41.959 feel free. It's here, it's done. I'm proud of it. 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:42.760 I feel great. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.400 Living in Wisdom a path to embodying your authentic self, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.400 embracing grief, and developing self mastery. 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.440 Tell us about that title, you know, I think so 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.560 just like being a healer, being someone that has been 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.800 on their own spiritual journey for decades, and being a teacher. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.959 I found that, you know, those are the three things that. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:07.399 Really give you. 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.119 A feeling of a well lived life. You know, when 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.600 we're looking for healing or when we're looking for self 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.800 actualization or self awareness, all the things whatever we're looking 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.679 for when it comes time to grow, It's like, ultimately 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.520 we're looking to be the embodiment of our authentic self, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:23.280 to get past the performance of. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.720 Like who we say we are and actually get to 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.800 the core. And then all of being alive is to 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:30.400 have grief a part of that. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.560 You know, every day there's grief, and whether it's losing someone, 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.880 which I'm sure all of us have or will because 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.840 that's what it is to be here, or it's you know, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.800 the daily grief of bearing witness to everything that's happening. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.240 Finding a way to embrace. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.039 That grief is a part of what it is to 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.760 be human is I think a really powerful shift in 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.440 our growth and then walking a past the path of 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.880 self mastery like looking to always not necessarily like be 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.680 better or prove things, but to just deepen in what 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.960 you already are. Like, Mastery isn't perfection. Mastery is like 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.400 the slow process of excellence of self, you know, and 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.480 only we kind of know what that process is inside. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.600 I want to go back for people that don't know 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.200 Devi's been here a long time ago. But for people 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.400 that don't know who Debbie is, Debbie Brown is. I 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:21.760 want to start from the beginning if you don't know, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:27.239 Debbie was a successful radio personality in media personalities. Uh, 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.440 and at the top of her game, decided she didn't 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.760 want to do it anymore. It wasn't like she was 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.640 pushed out. It wasn't like she had bad ratings. She 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.080 just said, you know what, I don't want to do 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:36.280 it anymore, top of her game. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:37.280 Uh. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.760 And then she started going on this healing journey. Debbie 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.400 was out in the clubs. She might have got into 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:44.480 a brawl tool, but we're not going. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:44.919 To go there. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.560 I'm talking about no idea. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:54.359 Debbie Brown, and I don't under. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.359 That was none there was this. This is a healing journey. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.400 So I wanted her rebirth of rebirth, I want to 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.119 go to for people that don't know what made you say, 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:03.639 you know what, this industry is not for me. I 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.680 want to give this up. You were doing radio, you 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.400 were doing in different markets. You just had a baby 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:09.840 and just said it's not. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.400 At the top of your game. How like, how did 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:13.840 you go from a woman in radio to just like, 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:14.560 now I'm done. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.440 With it, you know, I think, And it's not even 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:19.600 first of all, I just have to say, and y'all 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.400 know this, Like, to me, radio is one of the 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.560 most incredible sacred ways to broadcast, because like you're really 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.200 in someone's head and body when you talk, right like 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:29.919 they connect to you with. 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:30.560 Their whole being. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.600 It's I've always found it to be like a sacred 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:34.079 responsibility that makes. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:35.760 You good at like everything else. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:42.240 I think I realized that my purpose was evolving, and 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.280 I realized that a lot of the skills that I 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:49.200 was amassing, like communication, connecting with people, building community, I 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.560 just kept getting very very clear direction from God that 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.640 I was meant to do it differently and use it differently. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.960 And I felt like I personally was going through so 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.360 much like while I was still on the radio for 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.280 many years, I was like kind of secretly quietly getting 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.680 certifications and like meditation and breath work and spiritual psychology, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.920 like it was such a huge part of my off 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.800 the air life. And I felt like, at least at 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.200 that time, because I left the industry maybe almost ten 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.640 years ago, at that time, there was no blending of 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.159 the two, you know, and I was having situations where 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:28.400 I was wanting to have these deeper layered conversations, and 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.599 you know, I was being told by the people I 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.680 worked with, like no one wants to hear that, Like 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.000 now we can't run that on the. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.840 Air, like ask more questions. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.960 About dating, ask questions about beef ast, you know, And 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.800 for whatever reasons, it's like what I had to give 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.720 and what I felt God wanted me to give, it 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.000 was not valued at the time. And so instead of 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.160 kind of like sitting in that and you know, just 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.880 going with the zeitgeist, I was just like, Okay, so 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.200 it's time to leave. It's time to see what else 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.240 I can be used for or how else does you 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.480 know God want to use me? And it was interesting 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.440 because there was like a breakthrough moment for me where 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.800 Kendrick had come on my show. And I had known 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.200 Kendrick for a long, long, long, long long time the 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.760 very beginning of his career, so we would always have 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.400 really powerful, beautiful conversations. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.400 Right that was in Houston. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:25.160 He's brilliant, he's you know, brilliant, beyond belief. And we 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.840 were talking about like depression on this episode, and we 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.640 were talking about suicide ideation and this was twenty fourteen, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:37.800 and people in my sphere didn't really see value in 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.520 those questions or in the way that we were talking 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.680 about things. So you know, I was kind of asked like, hey, 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.600 you can't. You can't share those parts of the interview 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.760 on the radio. It's too long, it's too boring, like 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.479 we need to get to the music. And so I 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.640 ended up throwing it all on YouTube and I got 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.320 such a big response, like so many people were saying, 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.599 oh my god, like I've never heard anyone talk about 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.279 that before, and that's how I feel. And then an 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.039 editor from Vogue magazine reached out to me like a 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:05.760 couple of days later, and they're like, this is one 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.440 of the best interviews we've seen, like we want we're 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.000 doing a feature on him. And that was like, my 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:13.960 that was such like a breakthrough. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:14.039 Moment for me. 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.279 I was like, Okay, like if someone doesn't get it, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.800 or you know, if you have this vision that isn't 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.640 making sense to everyone right away, you just have to 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:24.440 find your people. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:25.919 You just have to keep being. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.120 Your authentic self and the people that are for you 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.040 will find you. And that really gave me like I 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.400 was like, Okay, I need to do something different, but 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.520 I wanted to. I wanted to spend my life talking 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.560 about wellness and healing and health and pain and grief 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.880 and you know all the ways to transcend. 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:44.760 But you were so ahead of your time and now 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.040 it's okay. Now people are vulnerable. Would you see yourself 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:54.320 coming back to doing radio. I love radio because you 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:55.760 were so ahead of your time. Now we have those 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.800 conversations and it's not even a thing we talk about 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.719 that people are vulnerable. It seems normal almost. 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.080 She got Deeply Well podcast. 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.720 Yeah, Black Effect Network. Yes. 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.320 And you know the interesting thing about Dev And I 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.159 want people to notice, like I met Dev and I 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:11.239 think O seven O seven O eight the person Dev 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.800 is now she's always been. This is just a to 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.080 me an evolution of who you've always been. You've always 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:23.160 been the same one in the room, you know, the 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:24.760 one in the room that people can go to for 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.200 sound advice, the leader in the room saying, hey, let's 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:29.720 go do this, we should be doing this. 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.800 I've always felt that in you. I've always seen that 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.680 in you. Why you don't work here? If you if 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:41.160 you have order She was swaised co host for a while. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.320 She don't work here at Fair east Side. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:50.080 Ieart, y'all. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.160 When it comes to healing, the way y'all have been 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.040 healing in this room. I am just so impressed and inspiring. 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:01.280 There have been some beautiful, transparent conversations to your point, though, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.760 Can I just say like about you, Like I know 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:07.960 people know this because the people in your life like 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.520 really hold you close and like really protect you. But 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.040 you're just like an exceptional person and friend. Like I'm 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.560 so grateful for who you've been in my life for 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:22.200 like two decades now. And it's like when we first met, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:23.680 we had nothing. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.440 I mean, you were how did you meet? 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.480 She was working at KD Yeah, at KDE. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.640 Right, yeah, and you were on Wendy Show, syndicated, indicated 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.400 and I used to run the boards on her syndicated 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.120 show and we would like talk through. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:40.160 The mic and on MySpace. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.520 And then I think the first time you came to town, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.400 like I picked you up from the airport. 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.080 That was like you and me we out and literally 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:48.760 showed me La. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.920 My introduction to La came through Debbie dev everybody from 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.880 Kendrick Lamard, the Nipsey Hustle, the Glasses of Loan Scrong, 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:55.679 I'm steady. 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.360 Gang, Where to eat? Where to go? Devil with my 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.160 toll guy. I had to check it with. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:08.040 Death the way you're doing keep checking in right. 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.120 But you I love the chapter fifteen because we're talking 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.319 about that in a way healing accept. Yeah, talk to 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.320 us why that's important that you have to heal and 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:18.480 then accept. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.959 You know, that's what we did in this room. You 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.599 healing and accepted just for who she is. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.760 You know, this is the thing about healing, right. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.440 And I've worked in wellness and well being for over 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.760 a decade now, and I work with clients directly, I 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.839 do workshops, I run retreats. I've had a lot of 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.720 access to studies and data all around healing, around trauma, 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:51.160 around all of it. And I found, you know, from 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.520 my own journey and with others, it's like there is 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:57.960 this misconception that you work on yourself to eventually be 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.640 rid of everything that's ever happened to you, and that 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.959 then your life will be perfect. That you'll go to therapy, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.280 that you'll do somatic exercises, that you'll meditate, and then 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.200 one day you're going to just like everything in life 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.600 is going to feel so happy. That's not God's design, right, Like, 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.760 no feeling is more holy than the other. God wants 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.800 us to know and experience and feel in real time 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.080 everything that crosses our path, and that means grief, that 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.280 means joy, that means you know, jealousy sometimes anger that 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:28.040 means fear. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.240 It's like, all of it is part of the. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.920 Human experience, and so when it comes to healing, a 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.800 huge part of it is also accepting that the past 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.040 can't change. For some of us, that can feel heartbreaking, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.760 right Like a lot of things have happened to so 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.360 many of us, so hundreds of millions in your life 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.480 that didn't get your consent, Maybe that you've never uttered aloud. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:51.840 You know. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.760 Sometimes we carry things and we're thinking about and ruminating and. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.120 Thought our whole life about the things that have hurt us. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.720 And I think it's important for people to know it 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.480 doesn't mean you're broken or deficient or not. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.200 Healed because you still. 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.120 Remember those things. It's really about changing the way you 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.640 relate to them. Some things will absolutely never change, but 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.520 when you heal, it really gets transmitted into wisdom where 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.440 it doesn't feel like this hard, full, painful charge inside 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.160 of your body. Every time that memory comes up, you're 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.319 able to kind of look at it from an observer's 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.520 standpoint and be like that happened, and that really hurt, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:35.040 and God, that was hard. And I have respect. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:35.560 For what I've been through. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.360 I have self respect for who I am and what 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:39.920 I've moved myself through. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.520 When you talk about working on yourself, right, what does 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:44.440 that mean for people? 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:44.600 Right? 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.360 When people say I need to work on myself and 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.880 then they come back to me and it's ten hours later, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.079 I worked on myself. I'm so for somebody out there 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.000 that says, you know, I need to work on myself, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.240 what does that mean? 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.360 God, that's such a good question, and like that I'm healed. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.320 Thing is so funny to me because people will go 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.319 to one therapy session and be like, Oh, I did it, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.840 and it's like, actually, it takes eight to twelve therapy 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.160 sessions to have like a real you know, cognitive breakthrough, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.160 or you know, you read one book and it's like, yeah, yeah, 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.600 I do this because this happened to me and that's 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.080 who I am. I think that's self awareness. But when 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.200 you're looking to work on yourself to transcend your experiences, 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.680 there's a difference. Like Instagram has given us so much language, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.240 a lot of people are using it to manipulate. 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.640 Now I hate the language. The wrong way. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:34.280 I hate it. 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.240 I know it like it bathers the ish out of me. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.440 Yeah, it drives me nuts because it's dangerous. Like to 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.200 be clear, it's dangerous people using certain mental health language 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.280 that haven't done the work, that don't know the work. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.400 It's a manipulation tactic. It can be very harmful for people, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.840 can be very narcissistic. So that none of those things. 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.720 Are like devoid. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.480 In the spiritual or the mental health space, all that 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.720 same stuff still exists. But when it comes to like 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.000 working on yourself, I think at the base level, it's 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.440 noticing how do you feel when it's just you with you, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:13.359 If there is anything inside of you that feels unmet, unexpressed, unheard, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.559 If there's anything inside of you where you feel anxiety, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.559 there is a charge in your chest, or there is 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.079 a rejection or a cringe. Those are things to notice 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.360 because it's information that maybe something wants to rise to 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.160 the surface for your review. And I think when we're 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.720 working on ourselves, it's really about being willing to look 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.840 at the truth of what is. It doesn't have to 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.200 be perceived as positive or negative, it's just what is 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.679 true right now, and then being honest with yourself about it. 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.080 And if we try to avoid those things, Yeah, you 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.760 can move through life. You can probably still have a 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.040 lot of success in life, but the quality of your 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:52.960 life goes down. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:53.800 The quality of. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:59.040 Your interior world really goes down, and you're not really 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.280 able to tap in to like the truth of why 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.920 you're here, to your purpose to you know, and this 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.440 doesn't matter to everybody, but it matters to me. The 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.720 truth of your connection to God. You know, all of 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.600 that kind of goes mute and it goes numb when 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.720 you avoid yourself, when you tap into yourself, I think 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.640 a lot of people think, oh, it's gonna hurt too much, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.240 or I'm going to open that door and I won't 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.240 be able to close it. But you're hurting anyway, right, Like, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.840 at least there is an outcome to be had by 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.640 choosing to direct some of your attention and word. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.640 Well, talk about some of the mental health and mental 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.600 health things that you've been talking about that I feel 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.360 have been commercialized to a point where people are using 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.040 these terms but they don't really mean it, right, Yeah, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.600 So so talk about that a little bit to make 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.600 dev go off now, Yeah, No, I want to talk 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.440 about it, you know, because it really bothers me because 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.000 I hear people using these terms, and I'm sure they 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.280 don't even know what these terms mean, right, Like you say, somebody, 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.960 you just gas lit me. And I feel like sometimes 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.520 it actually stops a conversation because sometimes when people hear 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.960 those words, they automatically say, oh, I ain't fucking with that. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.480 I'm not talking about that, especially in a workplace where 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.880 you can't and have a normal conversation if somebody says something, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.720 because now when you hear those terms, that also comes 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.400 after human resources, you know what I mean. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.760 Absolutely, Yeah, I mean there's just so much and I 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.320 think people should really do like a lot of deeper 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.360 layers of research, right Like I think the Internet is 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.760 phenomenal and that you know, it's the last five years. 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.480 Our consciousness has raised so much since the pandemic because 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.480 we have had access to understand Hey, a lot of 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.160 people have experienced trauma, or a lot of people have 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:35.040 experienced life frictions or you know, deeply challenging relationships. But 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.560 everyone is stopping at like one graphic, right Like they're 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.080 stopping at reading one thing or asking chat GPT one 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.200 question and then they leave it there, you know, and 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:51.040 it's like, so I think a lot of terms like understanding, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:52.960 like a lot of people are over using the term 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.560 like narcissist or narcissism right, not getting your way with 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.240 someone or someone kind of even being self focused, Like 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.200 every single person alive has some layer of narcissistic behavior. 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.960 That's part of like the human expression too, it's some 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:14.800 self focus. But narcissistic abuse is something entirely different. And 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:19.160 those that have experienced understand, like you get CPTSD from it, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.520 You get PTSD from it, you have changes in your body, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.840 your health decreases, like it is a psychological warfare that 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:34.120 is insidious and can dramatically change the trajectory of your life. Now, 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.880 if that level of feeling isn't really happening to you, 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.760 it may not be narcissistic abuse, you know. And so 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.600 I think we just need to go deeper into the 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.840 layers of the things that we're learning. And I will 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:49.040 say people that misuse language or use it as tools 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.680 of avoidance, typically those are the people that you know 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.360 usually are on the other side and fit the other 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.280 kind of definitions for those things. 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.640 Behavior is behavior, right. 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.159 And I think, now something I'm excited about is so 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.600 many of us are spending more time with ourselves, getting 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:14.320 more clear, meditating or getting into nature, which really connects 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.520 you to your intuition, to your gut response in a 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.000 really deep way. It regulates your nervous system. When your 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.320 nervous system is regulated, you're able to see things a 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.359 lot more clearly, You're able to make a lot better 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:30.320 choices in real time. And so usually interactions with people 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:35.840 like that that are throwing out misused language, that are manipulating, 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.880 usually you can handle those situations completely different or get 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.200 away from them a lot quicker. 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.040 One thing you told me one time that makes so 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:45.720 much sense, and I love the fact that you give 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.200 so many actual examples of how to do it. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:48.560 In the book. 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.919 You told me that when it comes to the language, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.280 you can have the language and know what it is 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.439 you're dealing with. But a lot of people avoid the 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:00.240 actual healing, the healing work. So if you read the book, 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.600 there's a lot of different exercises that can walk you 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.480 through that actual healing process. Why do you think, you know, 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.640 people forget the healing part once they go. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.440 To therapy because it's hard, you know, And I think 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.639 it and that's the thing that I really speak to 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.920 very clearly in my book. It's like, all of this 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.240 is hard. There is no tip or trick to heal 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.760 from challenging experiences, right Like, I'm not going to tell you, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.120 all right, do this five minutes every day. Yes, five 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.680 minutes every day will build your capacity, but you need 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.359 to stretch past the five minutes to devote actual real 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.760 time to the changes you want to see in your life. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.080 And so you know, something I talk about in the 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.879 book is like, there's a huge difference between having self 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.440 awareness and having higher consciousness or being embodied in your 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.680 self awareness. Self awareness is having the terms. It's going 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.320 to a couple therapy sessions perhaps or reading a bunch 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.240 of self help books and saying like this, this is 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.120 what happened, and this is why I act like this, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.840 and this is why this is this. But it doesn't 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.320 mean you're changing any of it, right Like, it doesn't 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.760 mean you're taking it to the next step to behave 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.400 differently or to invite in different experiences with people. And 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:15.280 that comes through practice, that comes through process. And so 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.360 in this book, I talk about a lot like how 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.040 to get out of your way. A lot of people 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.720 have a lot of sophisticated language around avoiding themselves. You 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.880 can avoid yourself with anything. You can avoid yourself with therapy. 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.639 You're seeing the same therapist for ten years and nothing 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.960 in your life changes what's going on in there, you know, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.560 or if you you know, I see a lot of 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.280 people avoid themselves With religion. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.080 You can be a part of a church, you can 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:40.560 go there. 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.919