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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is j Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne de God. We

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Speaker 2: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in

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Speaker 2: the building.

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Speaker 3: My good sister, longtime friend, DeBie Brown is back here.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, Good morning, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, How you feel on book publishing day?

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Speaker 4: I feel free? Yeah, I feel so free.

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Speaker 5: I've had a lot of anxiety about it for the

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Speaker 5: last few weeks. You know, what's like, you know that

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Speaker 5: creative birthing, and like there's a lot of like vulnerable

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Speaker 5: stories in it, and you're like, did I do that?

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Speaker 5: Should I have done this? But yeah, now I just

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Speaker 5: feel free. It's here, it's done. I'm proud of it.

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Speaker 5: I feel great.

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Speaker 3: Living in Wisdom a path to embodying your authentic self,

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Speaker 3: embracing grief, and developing self mastery.

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Speaker 5: Tell us about that title, you know, I think so

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Speaker 5: just like being a healer, being someone that has been

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Speaker 5: on their own spiritual journey for decades, and being a teacher.

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Speaker 5: I found that, you know, those are the three things that.

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Speaker 4: Really give you.

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Speaker 5: A feeling of a well lived life. You know, when

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Speaker 5: we're looking for healing or when we're looking for self

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Speaker 5: actualization or self awareness, all the things whatever we're looking

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Speaker 5: for when it comes time to grow, It's like, ultimately

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Speaker 5: we're looking to be the embodiment of our authentic self,

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Speaker 5: to get past the performance of.

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Speaker 4: Like who we say we are and actually get to

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Speaker 4: the core. And then all of being alive is to

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Speaker 4: have grief a part of that.

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Speaker 5: You know, every day there's grief, and whether it's losing someone,

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Speaker 5: which I'm sure all of us have or will because

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Speaker 5: that's what it is to be here, or it's you know,

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Speaker 5: the daily grief of bearing witness to everything that's happening.

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Speaker 4: Finding a way to embrace.

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Speaker 5: That grief is a part of what it is to

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Speaker 5: be human is I think a really powerful shift in

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Speaker 5: our growth and then walking a past the path of

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Speaker 5: self mastery like looking to always not necessarily like be

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Speaker 5: better or prove things, but to just deepen in what

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Speaker 5: you already are. Like, Mastery isn't perfection. Mastery is like

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Speaker 5: the slow process of excellence of self, you know, and

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Speaker 5: only we kind of know what that process is inside.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back for people that don't know

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Speaker 2: Devi's been here a long time ago. But for people

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Speaker 2: that don't know who Debbie is, Debbie Brown is. I

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Speaker 2: want to start from the beginning if you don't know,

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Speaker 2: Debbie was a successful radio personality in media personalities. Uh,

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Speaker 2: and at the top of her game, decided she didn't

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Speaker 2: want to do it anymore. It wasn't like she was

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Speaker 2: pushed out. It wasn't like she had bad ratings. She

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Speaker 2: just said, you know what, I don't want to do

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Speaker 2: it anymore, top of her game.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then she started going on this healing journey. Debbie

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Speaker 2: was out in the clubs. She might have got into

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Speaker 2: a brawl tool, but we're not going.

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Speaker 1: To go there.

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Speaker 5: I'm talking about no idea.

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Speaker 1: Debbie Brown, and I don't under.

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Speaker 2: That was none there was this. This is a healing journey.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted her rebirth of rebirth, I want to

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Speaker 2: go to for people that don't know what made you say,

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Speaker 2: you know what, this industry is not for me. I

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Speaker 2: want to give this up. You were doing radio, you

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Speaker 2: were doing in different markets. You just had a baby

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Speaker 2: and just said it's not.

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Speaker 6: At the top of your game. How like, how did

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Speaker 6: you go from a woman in radio to just like,

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Speaker 6: now I'm done.

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Speaker 5: With it, you know, I think, And it's not even

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Speaker 5: first of all, I just have to say, and y'all

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Speaker 5: know this, Like, to me, radio is one of the

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Speaker 5: most incredible sacred ways to broadcast, because like you're really

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Speaker 5: in someone's head and body when you talk, right like

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Speaker 5: they connect to you with.

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Speaker 4: Their whole being.

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Speaker 5: It's I've always found it to be like a sacred

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Speaker 5: responsibility that makes.

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Speaker 4: You good at like everything else.

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Speaker 5: I think I realized that my purpose was evolving, and

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Speaker 5: I realized that a lot of the skills that I

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Speaker 5: was amassing, like communication, connecting with people, building community, I

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Speaker 5: just kept getting very very clear direction from God that

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Speaker 5: I was meant to do it differently and use it differently.

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Speaker 5: And I felt like I personally was going through so

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Speaker 5: much like while I was still on the radio for

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Speaker 5: many years, I was like kind of secretly quietly getting

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Speaker 5: certifications and like meditation and breath work and spiritual psychology,

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Speaker 5: like it was such a huge part of my off

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Speaker 5: the air life. And I felt like, at least at

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Speaker 5: that time, because I left the industry maybe almost ten

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Speaker 5: years ago, at that time, there was no blending of

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Speaker 5: the two, you know, and I was having situations where

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Speaker 5: I was wanting to have these deeper layered conversations, and

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Speaker 5: you know, I was being told by the people I

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Speaker 5: worked with, like no one wants to hear that, Like

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Speaker 5: now we can't run that on the.

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Speaker 4: Air, like ask more questions.

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Speaker 5: About dating, ask questions about beef ast, you know, And

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Speaker 5: for whatever reasons, it's like what I had to give

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Speaker 5: and what I felt God wanted me to give, it

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Speaker 5: was not valued at the time. And so instead of

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Speaker 5: kind of like sitting in that and you know, just

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Speaker 5: going with the zeitgeist, I was just like, Okay, so

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Speaker 5: it's time to leave. It's time to see what else

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Speaker 5: I can be used for or how else does you

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Speaker 5: know God want to use me? And it was interesting

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Speaker 5: because there was like a breakthrough moment for me where

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Speaker 5: Kendrick had come on my show. And I had known

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Speaker 5: Kendrick for a long, long, long, long long time the

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Speaker 5: very beginning of his career, so we would always have

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Speaker 5: really powerful, beautiful conversations.

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Speaker 4: Right that was in Houston.

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Speaker 5: He's brilliant, he's you know, brilliant, beyond belief. And we

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Speaker 5: were talking about like depression on this episode, and we

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Speaker 5: were talking about suicide ideation and this was twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 5: and people in my sphere didn't really see value in

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Speaker 5: those questions or in the way that we were talking

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Speaker 5: about things. So you know, I was kind of asked like, hey,

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Speaker 5: you can't. You can't share those parts of the interview

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Speaker 5: on the radio. It's too long, it's too boring, like

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Speaker 5: we need to get to the music. And so I

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Speaker 5: ended up throwing it all on YouTube and I got

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Speaker 5: such a big response, like so many people were saying,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, like I've never heard anyone talk about

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Speaker 5: that before, and that's how I feel. And then an

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Speaker 5: editor from Vogue magazine reached out to me like a

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Speaker 5: couple of days later, and they're like, this is one

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Speaker 5: of the best interviews we've seen, like we want we're

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Speaker 5: doing a feature on him. And that was like, my

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Speaker 5: that was such like a breakthrough.

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Speaker 4: Moment for me.

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Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, like if someone doesn't get it,

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Speaker 5: or you know, if you have this vision that isn't

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Speaker 5: making sense to everyone right away, you just have to

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Speaker 5: find your people.

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Speaker 4: You just have to keep being.

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Speaker 5: Your authentic self and the people that are for you

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Speaker 5: will find you. And that really gave me like I

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Speaker 5: was like, Okay, I need to do something different, but

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Speaker 5: I wanted to. I wanted to spend my life talking

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Speaker 5: about wellness and healing and health and pain and grief

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Speaker 5: and you know all the ways to transcend.

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Speaker 2: But you were so ahead of your time and now

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Speaker 2: it's okay. Now people are vulnerable. Would you see yourself

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Speaker 2: coming back to doing radio. I love radio because you

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Speaker 2: were so ahead of your time. Now we have those

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Speaker 2: conversations and it's not even a thing we talk about

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Speaker 2: that people are vulnerable. It seems normal almost.

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Speaker 1: She got Deeply Well podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Black Effect Network. Yes.

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Speaker 3: And you know the interesting thing about Dev And I

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Speaker 3: want people to notice, like I met Dev and I

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Speaker 3: think O seven O seven O eight the person Dev

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Speaker 3: is now she's always been. This is just a to

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Speaker 3: me an evolution of who you've always been. You've always

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Speaker 3: been the same one in the room, you know, the

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Speaker 3: one in the room that people can go to for

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Speaker 3: sound advice, the leader in the room saying, hey, let's

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Speaker 3: go do this, we should be doing this.

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Speaker 1: I've always felt that in you. I've always seen that

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Speaker 1: in you. Why you don't work here? If you if

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Speaker 1: you have order She was swaised co host for a while.

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Speaker 6: She don't work here at Fair east Side.

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Speaker 1: Ieart, y'all.

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Speaker 5: When it comes to healing, the way y'all have been

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Speaker 5: healing in this room. I am just so impressed and inspiring.

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Speaker 5: There have been some beautiful, transparent conversations to your point, though,

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Speaker 5: Can I just say like about you, Like I know

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Speaker 5: people know this because the people in your life like

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Speaker 5: really hold you close and like really protect you. But

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Speaker 5: you're just like an exceptional person and friend. Like I'm

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Speaker 5: so grateful for who you've been in my life for

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Speaker 5: like two decades now. And it's like when we first met,

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Speaker 5: we had nothing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you were how did you meet?

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Speaker 1: She was working at KD Yeah, at KDE.

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Speaker 5: Right, yeah, and you were on Wendy Show, syndicated, indicated

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Speaker 5: and I used to run the boards on her syndicated

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Speaker 5: show and we would like talk through.

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Speaker 4: The mic and on MySpace.

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Speaker 5: And then I think the first time you came to town,

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Speaker 5: like I picked you up from the airport.

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Speaker 1: That was like you and me we out and literally

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Speaker 1: showed me La.

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Speaker 3: My introduction to La came through Debbie dev everybody from

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Speaker 3: Kendrick Lamard, the Nipsey Hustle, the Glasses of Loan Scrong,

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Speaker 3: I'm steady.

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Speaker 1: Gang, Where to eat? Where to go? Devil with my

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Speaker 1: toll guy. I had to check it with.

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Speaker 5: Death the way you're doing keep checking in right.

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Speaker 3: But you I love the chapter fifteen because we're talking

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Speaker 3: about that in a way healing accept. Yeah, talk to

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Speaker 3: us why that's important that you have to heal and

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Speaker 3: then accept.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's what we did in this room. You

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Speaker 1: healing and accepted just for who she is.

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Speaker 4: You know, this is the thing about healing, right.

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Speaker 5: And I've worked in wellness and well being for over

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Speaker 5: a decade now, and I work with clients directly, I

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Speaker 5: do workshops, I run retreats. I've had a lot of

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Speaker 5: access to studies and data all around healing, around trauma,

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Speaker 5: around all of it. And I found, you know, from

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Speaker 5: my own journey and with others, it's like there is

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Speaker 5: this misconception that you work on yourself to eventually be

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Speaker 5: rid of everything that's ever happened to you, and that

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Speaker 5: then your life will be perfect. That you'll go to therapy,

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Speaker 5: that you'll do somatic exercises, that you'll meditate, and then

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Speaker 5: one day you're going to just like everything in life

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Speaker 5: is going to feel so happy. That's not God's design, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: no feeling is more holy than the other. God wants

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Speaker 5: us to know and experience and feel in real time

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Speaker 5: everything that crosses our path, and that means grief, that

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Speaker 5: means joy, that means you know, jealousy sometimes anger that

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Speaker 5: means fear.

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Speaker 4: It's like, all of it is part of the.

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Speaker 5: Human experience, and so when it comes to healing, a

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Speaker 5: huge part of it is also accepting that the past

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Speaker 5: can't change. For some of us, that can feel heartbreaking,

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Speaker 5: right Like a lot of things have happened to so

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Speaker 5: many of us, so hundreds of millions in your life

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Speaker 5: that didn't get your consent, Maybe that you've never uttered aloud.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes we carry things and we're thinking about and ruminating and.

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Speaker 4: Thought our whole life about the things that have hurt us.

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Speaker 5: And I think it's important for people to know it

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Speaker 5: doesn't mean you're broken or deficient or not.

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Speaker 4: Healed because you still.

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Speaker 5: Remember those things. It's really about changing the way you

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Speaker 5: relate to them. Some things will absolutely never change, but

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Speaker 5: when you heal, it really gets transmitted into wisdom where

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Speaker 5: it doesn't feel like this hard, full, painful charge inside

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Speaker 5: of your body. Every time that memory comes up, you're

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Speaker 5: able to kind of look at it from an observer's

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Speaker 5: standpoint and be like that happened, and that really hurt,

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Speaker 5: and God, that was hard. And I have respect.

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Speaker 4: For what I've been through.

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Speaker 5: I have self respect for who I am and what

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Speaker 5: I've moved myself through.

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Speaker 2: When you talk about working on yourself, right, what does

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Speaker 2: that mean for people?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: When people say I need to work on myself and

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Speaker 2: then they come back to me and it's ten hours later,

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Speaker 2: I worked on myself. I'm so for somebody out there

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Speaker 2: that says, you know, I need to work on myself,

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Speaker 2: what does that mean?

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Speaker 5: God, that's such a good question, and like that I'm healed.

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Speaker 5: Thing is so funny to me because people will go

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Speaker 5: to one therapy session and be like, Oh, I did it,

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Speaker 5: and it's like, actually, it takes eight to twelve therapy

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Speaker 5: sessions to have like a real you know, cognitive breakthrough,

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Speaker 5: or you know, you read one book and it's like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I do this because this happened to me and that's

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Speaker 5: who I am. I think that's self awareness. But when

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Speaker 5: you're looking to work on yourself to transcend your experiences,

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Speaker 5: there's a difference. Like Instagram has given us so much language,

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Speaker 5: a lot of people are using it to manipulate.

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Speaker 2: Now I hate the language. The wrong way.

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Speaker 4: I hate it.

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Speaker 2: I know it like it bathers the ish out of me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it drives me nuts because it's dangerous. Like to

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Speaker 5: be clear, it's dangerous people using certain mental health language

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Speaker 5: that haven't done the work, that don't know the work.

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Speaker 5: It's a manipulation tactic. It can be very harmful for people,

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Speaker 5: can be very narcissistic. So that none of those things.

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Speaker 4: Are like devoid.

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Speaker 5: In the spiritual or the mental health space, all that

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Speaker 5: same stuff still exists. But when it comes to like

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Speaker 5: working on yourself, I think at the base level, it's

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Speaker 5: noticing how do you feel when it's just you with you,

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Speaker 5: If there is anything inside of you that feels unmet, unexpressed, unheard,

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Speaker 5: If there's anything inside of you where you feel anxiety,

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Speaker 5: there is a charge in your chest, or there is

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Speaker 5: a rejection or a cringe. Those are things to notice

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Speaker 5: because it's information that maybe something wants to rise to

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Speaker 5: the surface for your review. And I think when we're

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Speaker 5: working on ourselves, it's really about being willing to look

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Speaker 5: at the truth of what is. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 5: be perceived as positive or negative, it's just what is

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Speaker 5: true right now, and then being honest with yourself about it.

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Speaker 5: And if we try to avoid those things, Yeah, you

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Speaker 5: can move through life. You can probably still have a

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Speaker 5: lot of success in life, but the quality of your

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Speaker 5: life goes down.

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Speaker 4: The quality of.

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Speaker 5: Your interior world really goes down, and you're not really

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Speaker 5: able to tap in to like the truth of why

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Speaker 5: you're here, to your purpose to you know, and this

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Speaker 5: doesn't matter to everybody, but it matters to me. The

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Speaker 5: truth of your connection to God. You know, all of

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Speaker 5: that kind of goes mute and it goes numb when

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Speaker 5: you avoid yourself, when you tap into yourself, I think

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Speaker 5: a lot of people think, oh, it's gonna hurt too much,

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Speaker 5: or I'm going to open that door and I won't

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Speaker 5: be able to close it. But you're hurting anyway, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: at least there is an outcome to be had by

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Speaker 5: choosing to direct some of your attention and word.

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Speaker 2: Well, talk about some of the mental health and mental

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Speaker 2: health things that you've been talking about that I feel

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Speaker 2: have been commercialized to a point where people are using

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Speaker 2: these terms but they don't really mean it, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So so talk about that a little bit to make

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Speaker 2: dev go off now, Yeah, No, I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about it, you know, because it really bothers me because

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Speaker 2: I hear people using these terms, and I'm sure they

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Speaker 2: don't even know what these terms mean, right, Like you say, somebody,

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Speaker 2: you just gas lit me. And I feel like sometimes

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Speaker 2: it actually stops a conversation because sometimes when people hear

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Speaker 2: those words, they automatically say, oh, I ain't fucking with that.

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about that, especially in a workplace where

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Speaker 2: you can't and have a normal conversation if somebody says something,

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Speaker 2: because now when you hear those terms, that also comes

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Speaker 2: after human resources, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, Yeah, I mean there's just so much and I

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Speaker 5: think people should really do like a lot of deeper

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Speaker 5: layers of research, right Like I think the Internet is

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Speaker 5: phenomenal and that you know, it's the last five years.

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Speaker 5: Our consciousness has raised so much since the pandemic because

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Speaker 5: we have had access to understand Hey, a lot of

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Speaker 5: people have experienced trauma, or a lot of people have

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Speaker 5: experienced life frictions or you know, deeply challenging relationships. But

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Speaker 5: everyone is stopping at like one graphic, right Like they're

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Speaker 5: stopping at reading one thing or asking chat GPT one

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Speaker 5: question and then they leave it there, you know, and

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Speaker 5: it's like, so I think a lot of terms like understanding,

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Speaker 5: like a lot of people are over using the term

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Speaker 5: like narcissist or narcissism right, not getting your way with

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Speaker 5: someone or someone kind of even being self focused, Like

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Speaker 5: every single person alive has some layer of narcissistic behavior.

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Speaker 5: That's part of like the human expression too, it's some

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Speaker 5: self focus. But narcissistic abuse is something entirely different. And

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Speaker 5: those that have experienced understand, like you get CPTSD from it,

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Speaker 5: You get PTSD from it, you have changes in your body,

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Speaker 5: your health decreases, like it is a psychological warfare that

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Speaker 5: is insidious and can dramatically change the trajectory of your life. Now,

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Speaker 5: if that level of feeling isn't really happening to you,

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Speaker 5: it may not be narcissistic abuse, you know. And so

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Speaker 5: I think we just need to go deeper into the

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Speaker 5: layers of the things that we're learning. And I will

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Speaker 5: say people that misuse language or use it as tools

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Speaker 5: of avoidance, typically those are the people that you know

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Speaker 5: usually are on the other side and fit the other

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Speaker 5: kind of definitions for those things.

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Speaker 4: Behavior is behavior, right.

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Speaker 5: And I think, now something I'm excited about is so

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Speaker 5: many of us are spending more time with ourselves, getting

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Speaker 5: more clear, meditating or getting into nature, which really connects

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Speaker 5: you to your intuition, to your gut response in a

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Speaker 5: really deep way. It regulates your nervous system. When your

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Speaker 5: nervous system is regulated, you're able to see things a

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Speaker 5: lot more clearly, You're able to make a lot better

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Speaker 5: choices in real time. And so usually interactions with people

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Speaker 5: like that that are throwing out misused language, that are manipulating,

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Speaker 5: usually you can handle those situations completely different or get

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Speaker 5: away from them a lot quicker.

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Speaker 3: One thing you told me one time that makes so

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Speaker 3: much sense, and I love the fact that you give

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Speaker 3: so many actual examples of how to do it.

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Speaker 1: In the book.

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Speaker 3: You told me that when it comes to the language,

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Speaker 3: you can have the language and know what it is

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Speaker 3: you're dealing with. But a lot of people avoid the

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Speaker 3: actual healing, the healing work. So if you read the book,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of different exercises that can walk you

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Speaker 3: through that actual healing process. Why do you think, you know,

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Speaker 3: people forget the healing part once they go.

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Speaker 5: To therapy because it's hard, you know, And I think

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Speaker 5: it and that's the thing that I really speak to

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Speaker 5: very clearly in my book. It's like, all of this

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Speaker 5: is hard. There is no tip or trick to heal

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Speaker 5: from challenging experiences, right Like, I'm not going to tell you,

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Speaker 5: all right, do this five minutes every day. Yes, five

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Speaker 5: minutes every day will build your capacity, but you need

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Speaker 5: to stretch past the five minutes to devote actual real

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Speaker 5: time to the changes you want to see in your life.

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Speaker 5: And so you know, something I talk about in the

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Speaker 5: book is like, there's a huge difference between having self

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Speaker 5: awareness and having higher consciousness or being embodied in your

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Speaker 5: self awareness. Self awareness is having the terms. It's going

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Speaker 5: to a couple therapy sessions perhaps or reading a bunch

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Speaker 5: of self help books and saying like this, this is

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Speaker 5: what happened, and this is why I act like this,

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Speaker 5: and this is why this is this. But it doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean you're changing any of it, right Like, it doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean you're taking it to the next step to behave

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Speaker 5: differently or to invite in different experiences with people. And

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Speaker 5: that comes through practice, that comes through process. And so

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Speaker 5: in this book, I talk about a lot like how

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Speaker 5: to get out of your way. A lot of people

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Speaker 5: have a lot of sophisticated language around avoiding themselves. You

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Speaker 5: can avoid yourself with anything. You can avoid yourself with therapy.

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Speaker 5: You're seeing the same therapist for ten years and nothing

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Speaker 5: in your life changes what's going on in there, you know,

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Speaker 5: or if you you know, I see a lot of

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Speaker 5: people avoid themselves With religion.

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Speaker 4: You can be a part of a church, you can

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Speaker 4: go there.

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Speaker 5: On Sundays and you can still not know God. You

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Speaker 5: can still not make better choices.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: It is daily practice. It is showing up in your

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Speaker 5: interpersonal relationships. It is having the hard conversations in real

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Speaker 5: time as they come up, and just being present with

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Speaker 5: all of it without expectation, you know, without trying.

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Speaker 4: To control it or make it go your way.

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Speaker 5: And so in the book, we have a lot of

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Speaker 5: practices like I teach meditation in the book, we work

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Speaker 5: with mudras in the book, which are hand positions that

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Speaker 5: can really elevate your meditation practice because your hand positions

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Speaker 5: open different energy channels in your body.

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Speaker 4: There is breath work that.

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Speaker 5: Can be done in the book, and every single one

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Speaker 5: of those practices anchors in the changes that you want

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Speaker 5: to experience, because it shows you how to regulate when

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Speaker 5: you do get triggered when you do have charge, and

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Speaker 5: so both are needed. You have to have the cognitive

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Speaker 5: and you have to have the somatic. You have to

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Speaker 5: have the spiritual, you have to have the physical. All

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Speaker 5: of it kind of beautifully goes together.

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Speaker 6: So you don't think that people can heal themselves though,

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Speaker 6: Like for instance, right, like let's just save me for it. Say,

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Speaker 6: I'm going through you know, a lot, I've experienced a

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Speaker 6: lot of trauma, right, and just just an example, I'm

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Speaker 6: gonna just use myself, like and I'm constantly going through

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Speaker 6: therapists after therapist after therapists. Okay, I've even change churches

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Speaker 6: and everything and nothing nobody else seems to help me.

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Speaker 6: But I can find that on my own, Like is

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Speaker 6: there do you believe that people can heal themselves without

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Speaker 6: church or without any higher being or without you know,

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Speaker 6: any type of drug you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Or also any therapy?

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Speaker 6: Like do you think people can change themselves heal themselves?

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Speaker 4: So in two ways. So based on my belief, I think.

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Speaker 5: That God has to be a part of the equation.

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Speaker 5: That's my belief, that is my higher being, the God

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Speaker 5: of my understanding. I think we can each have that

440
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 5: right because God can look and be different for everyone.

441
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be in the confines of any

442
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 5: set religion. I'm certainly not within any set religion. But

443
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 5: I do think there has to be something that expands

444
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 5: your understanding of what all of this is. And I

445
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 5: think that that is hard to do without connecting to

446
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 5: something that is bigger than you. That acide, I would say,

447
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 5: absolutely people can heal themselves. I don't think you necessarily

448
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 5: even have to go anywhere unless there is another layer

449
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 5: of need there. Right if there is a mental health condition,

450
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 5: a disorder, if there are some situations like really severe

451
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 5: trauma that you cannot understand on your own, I absolutely

452
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 5: think people should continue to find all the resources that

453
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 5: can meet their need, jump in and out of them.

454
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 5: If it doesn't work, leave it, you know, trust your

455
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 5: gut on that. But yeah, we are our own healers.

456
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 5: One hundred percent of the time. I think this book

457
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 5: it's about self healing. It's not saying go to this person,

458
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 5: go to that person, get this done. I've done a

459
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 5: ton of stuff, you know. I've done everything. I've done

460
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 5: all kinds of therapies, I have done certifications, I have

461
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 5: done a lot of psychedelics. I have done a lot

462
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 5: of meditation. I've spoken with a lot of people, Shaman's healer,

463
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 5: so much, so much, so much. But it still comes down,

464
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 5: no matter what, to how willing I am to be

465
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 5: fully myself. It still comes down, no matter what, to

466
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 5: how willing I am to sit with myself, especially in

467
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 5: the dark periods and the dark moments, and how much

468
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 5: self respect I can really gather for myself and what

469
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 5: I've been through and experience.

470
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: I learned to meditate because of Dev. It was December

471
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. It was twenty twenty because it was COVID

472
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 3: and that was like the first time we traveled and

473
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 3: we went the.

474
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: That was the best.

475
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 3: It was amazing with the cowbo for a week with

476
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 3: Dev and like Dev had like a bunch of activities

477
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 3: what would you call them.

478
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: Dev's It was like a spiritual retreat.

479
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,479
Speaker 3: It was just a bunch of activities. We were doing

480
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 3: yoga and I learned how to meditate. On that trip,

481
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 3: I could not still quiet my brain, have my brain

482
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: still ever, But for whatever reason, in that moment, I

483
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 3: was able to meditate and I've been doing it ever since.

484
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 4: It was so amazing.

485
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 5: We did Yeah, we did rake you We did energy

486
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 5: healing yep, little mushrooms.

487
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 4: We did meditation yoga.

488
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: Why meditation is so important?

489
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: Oh my god?

490
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: You know.

491
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: And I think in some other maybe wisdom traditions, some

492
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 5: people might relate to it if you call it reflection

493
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 5: or if you call it moments for contemplation, But meditation

494
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 5: is the master healer because it gets you out of

495
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 5: your identity. And our identity is almost one hundred percent

496
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 5: made from like all of the culturally created beliefs that

497
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 5: we have, or our beliefs from our family of origin,

498
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 5: or you know, the things that we're influenced by by society.

499
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 4: And so when you're.

500
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 5: Able to get out of all those extra layers of

501
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 5: like what your titles are, you know what the role

502
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 5: you play. I'm a husband, I'm a wife, I'm a

503
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 5: someone's child, brother, sister, friend, When you take yourself out

504
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 5: of all of that, you actually get to glimpse, like

505
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 5: what am I designed to be? What was God's intention

506
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 5: for me of me before I fit into anybody's box

507
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 5: or any relationship. And so the thing about meditation, and

508
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 5: I really want to share this. You know, I believe

509
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: in trauma informed practice, and it's a little bit different

510
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 5: to hold that space within the healing community than if

511
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 5: you're not. It's recognizing that a lot of people will

512
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 5: have barriers to almost every healing modality that comes up

513
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 5: because of some of the things that they may have experienced.

514
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 5: So in meditation, you're going through so many layers, and

515
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 5: the first time you try, the first several times you try,

516
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 5: it could be so hard and frustrating and anger inducing

517
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 5: and irritating to sit down and be still, and it

518
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 5: could bring up everything and make you feel like you're

519
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 5: failing at it, and then you want to stop and

520
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 5: then let me go do things I'm actually good at.

521
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: You know. That is literally me.

522
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, that is I feel like I'm missing out on

523
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 6: doing something, or I can be doing this with this time,

524
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 6: or it's not working. It's like, so I grow to

525
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 6: be frustrated when I try to meditate.

526
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: Man just smoking and that. Yeah, well I mean that too.

527
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 5: Spoken to meditate is like a great little collaboration and

528
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 5: yoga and stretching. But I'm so glad you said that,

529
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 5: because I think that is almost everyone's response, but especially

530
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 5: if you have been through hard things. And what I

531
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 5: want everyone to know is that phase passes and that's

532
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 5: part of what doing the work is right. It's being

533
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 5: patient with yourself and witnessing yourself, especially when you don't

534
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 5: want to do it, and.

535
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: It's saying like God, I'm sitting here and I hate this,

536
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 4: this is stupid. I don't want to do this. Breathe,

537
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: Breathe okay, okay, wiggle.

538
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 5: Release, open your body, like you start meeting those feelings

539
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: with things that harmonize that experience for you. And part

540
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 5: of what you're doing when you do that is you

541
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 5: stretch your capacity to be patient with yourself.

542
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 4: You stretch your capacity to.

543
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 5: Be present in your life, but you also stretch your

544
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 5: capacity for self compassion. So all those little adjustments you

545
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 5: make in meditation when you first start, like connect to

546
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 5: your breath, take a deep breath with your eyes closed,

547
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 5: try to look at your nose. That's something that can

548
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 5: focus you. Relaxes your body, Okay, I'm getting tent. Lower

549
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 5: my shoulders, release my stomach, release my breath. You're teaching

550
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 5: yourself how to regulate your discomfort. So when we say

551
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 5: things like you know you know it, do it when

552
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 5: you're uncomfortable or uncomfortable, things stretch you. They only stretch

553
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 5: you if you learn how to settle into them. And

554
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 5: so that building a practice for your wellness is how

555
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 5: you settle into it. Once you settle into it, there's

556
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 5: another level to go to.

557
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 4: So after you get past that which you can and will,

558
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 4: which I was in the same place, I hated it.

559
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,239
Speaker 5: I would stop for months at a time and reject it.

560
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 5: When I first started my practice.

561
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: The beads in the matra helped me.

562
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 5: Yes, working with a mala, working with a mantra, a

563
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 5: sanscrit word or something that is valuable to you, you know.

564
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 5: The next layer would be you might start crying a

565
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 5: lot in meditation. That usually gets people to stop.

566
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: Right.

567
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 5: You might notice that, oh my god, I'm still like

568
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 5: close my eyes and all these tears come up. The

569
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 5: first thing you're thinking is what is wrong with me?

570
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 5: Why is this happening? Well, everything that was suppressed, you know,

571
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: everything that you haven't had the time to deal with,

572
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 5: probably for decades. Now, you're still enough that it has

573
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 5: a chance to rise to the surface. It's not bad

574
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: that it's rising to the surface. It's coming up for

575
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 5: your review so you can release it, or so you

576
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 5: can accept it. So then you get into this kind

577
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 5: of like double Dutch cadence with your meditation practice, where

578
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 5: you're like, okay, I want to pull back, let me

579
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 5: come back in like you're in flow. You're going back

580
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 5: and forward. And so the more you will allow yourself

581
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 5: to see like I don't want to think about this,

582
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 5: but it did happen, and I can move through this.

583
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 5: Breathe into it, Breathe into it, grace for yourself, compassion

584
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 5: for yourself, presence for yourself. You get past that point,

585
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 5: and it'll take months, it'll take time, it'll still come

586
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: up sometimes, and then you get to the next layer

587
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 5: of meditation. And I found that that next level of

588
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 5: meditation is when you're actually starting to crave it, like

589
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: you're like, okay, let me go sit down. Oh, I

590
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 5: finally get to be quiet. I finally get to be still.

591
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: Ah.

592
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 5: I feel so good when I breathe, Like you know,

593
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 5: you get to all these different levels, but eventually the

594
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 5: level you're aiming for is like higher and higher consciousness.

595
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 5: Higher consciousness means a greater ability to be what you

596
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 5: are designed to be on earth and to also extend

597
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 5: love and goodwill and compassion and power and influence to

598
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 5: others for the higher good of all concerned.

599
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna as with all that. Does Debbie

600
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: still get upset? Or do you control yourself to the

601
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: point where you don't get upset?

602
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: You's a Gemini, that's Tupac chopra. Okay, it's two.

603
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: Are you're about to lose it?

604
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: Do you meditate? You pull the beads out?

605
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: Do you like?

606
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: Or do you sometimes you just explode?

607
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: Oh my god? Yeah, I have bad days all the time.

608
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 5: Sometimes I book a session at a rage room, like

609
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 5: I have a rage room near my house. You go in,

610
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 5: you get a crowbar or bad Oh my god. You

611
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 5: pay them like twenty bucks. They give you a carton

612
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 5: of like plates and old electronics. You put on some

613
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: music and then you throw.

614
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: Things and remember that for next time. Jess, you don't

615
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: have to put your silk scarf on.

616
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: You don't have to go to rage.

617
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,479
Speaker 1: You do not make the breakfast. But is that how

618
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: you messed up your shoulder? Jesus, you can get mad?

619
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 6: Yeah?

620
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: Tore my rotator cut?

621
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: Right? How is that?

622
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: I am? God has given me accelerated healing.

623
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 5: I'm so grateful, but you know, and I'm grateful for

624
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 5: the surgery and for modern medicine and all the things,

625
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 5: but no, I still absolutely get disappointed, get mad, get upset.

626
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,239
Speaker 5: I think the reaction time is a lot less, the

627
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 5: personalization of it is a lot less. I can get

628
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 5: upset at something in more of an abstract observation way

629
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 5: without thinking that someone is injuring me, even if that

630
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 5: is what they're attempting to do. I can recognize maybe

631
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 5: the deeper layers doesn't mean I'm not going to be

632
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: upset or disappointed, but I'm not holding it inside. It's

633
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 5: definitely not something I'm thinking about for multiple days. You know,

634
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 5: I can kind of take it in, release it or

635
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 5: the way it feels, you know, because sometimes you're going

636
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 5: to be angry about stuff that doesn't change, that can't change.

637
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 5: The world is unfair, you know, it is. It just is,

638
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 5: and I think I'm an acceptance of that. So I

639
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 5: know things aren't always going to go my way. I'm

640
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 5: not now all of a sudden, I've meditated so much

641
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 5: that oh, no more challenges in life for me, Like, no,

642
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 5: it's hard, But the way that it feels inside the

643
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 5: level of spiritual confidence you have in yourself to meet

644
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: that challenge changes dramatically, and I think that you can

645
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 5: compartmentalize it differently. You can hold that that unique experience

646
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 5: is happening, but it doesn't now have to pull away

647
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 5: and take away from all the other good that's in

648
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: my life too. And I think like my book is

649
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 5: really about holding space equally for grief and joy. Life

650
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 5: is grief and joy all at once. But yeah, you

651
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 5: get mad, but you have other tools for working with

652
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 5: that feeling. You're not taking it out on other people, right,

653
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 5: You're not taking it out in yourself. You're not now

654
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 5: being rude to whatever person is in front of you

655
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 5: because of it. You know, you're not causing harm because

656
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 5: of your feeling.

657
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

658
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 3: In the grief chapter you talk about how you can't

659
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: heal and tell you grief.

660
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you expound on that?

661
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it's acceptance. You can't heal what you

662
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 5: don't let be revealed. You know, you can't heal what

663
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 5: you don't spend time with. And I think grief is

664
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 5: a hard feeling.

665
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 4: It's hard. All of us have had it.

666
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,719
Speaker 5: Even the good stuff can be I my son is

667
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 5: going to be seven next month.

668
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 4: I love you.

669
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 5: Quest when you see this in the future, land, you

670
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 5: are my baby five nine.

671
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: By the way, he's a big boy.

672
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 4: I grieve who he was last year.

673
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 5: I'll never see that guy again, you know, like that

674
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 5: there is a real sadness to that. I mean, you're

675
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 5: an incredible father, envy, and I know, like you see

676
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 5: your kids at so many different ages. Now there's grief

677
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: to that, all those different chapters of who they are,

678
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 5: who they're.

679
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 4: Becoming, you know. So I think.

680
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 5: Nothing can be healed until we grieve it because we

681
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 5: have to be with the truth of our spiritual curriculum.

682
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 5: We cannot avoid whatever was designed meant to be a

683
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 5: part of our lives. And I just want to hold

684
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 5: space for the fact that even saying those words, it

685
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 5: is okay that there is a rejecting because there are

686
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 5: certain things that happen to us that there is no

687
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 5: clear way that you could say that's God's design, right, Like,

688
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 5: there are certain things that happen and it feels so

689
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 5: much better to like attribute it to how wrong things

690
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 5: are or the evilness of the world. And so there's

691
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 5: nuance in that and that that is its own lifetime

692
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 5: of work to come into right. So there's no quick

693
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 5: fix for some of those harder abusive stories of.

694
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: Things that have happened, But you have.

695
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 5: To let yourself feel whatever is true in your body,

696
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 5: whatever is present. From that point you get to choose

697
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 5: what the next path is and what the next step is.

698
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, no healing, No, no true.

699
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 5: Authentic joy or happiness can come if you avoid absolutely anything.

700
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: Would you use some language in the book Living in

701
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: with Them? That's what we're talking about. You say grief

702
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: is a right, a pathage.

703
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, I think you know.

704
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 5: And I speak as someone that darkness has been a

705
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 5: big teacher for me in my life. And that's not

706
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 5: everyone's path, but it's mine, and it's some other people's,

707
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 5: you know, having some childhood trauma, having adult trauma, having

708
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 5: witnessing hard things, losing people. You know, I started to

709
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 5: look at my life and say, it feels so dark.

710
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 4: I don't look like that. You know.

711
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 5: Sometimes not looking like what you've been through is kind

712
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 5: of a curse because people think nothing's wrong, no one

713
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: checks on you, you know.

714
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 4: But it's like.

715
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 5: When I started to realize that pain serves purpose, and

716
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 5: I mean that literally, like pain sometimes is the servant

717
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 5: to purpose, Like when you can and look at it,

718
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 5: when you can be with it, when you can kind

719
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 5: of extract yourself from the personalization of it.

720
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 4: It can be really useful for you and for me.

721
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 5: You know, my path has always been to be a healer,

722
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 5: to be a teacher, to be present with people in pain,

723
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 5: to sit at the bottom of the ocean with someone.

724
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 5: So now I realize I needed every lesson I learned

725
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 5: because it informs the work that I'm able to do.

726
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 5: So I think once you're able to start seeing even

727
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 5: your harder experiences as somehow being useful for the bigger

728
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 5: story that your life is telling, right, for the bigger

729
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 5: thing that you're doing in the world, I think it

730
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 5: changes everything.

731
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 6: And with that being said, I love that you celebrated

732
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 6: your book in your garden and you co hosted it

733
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 6: with Lauren London. Yes, and so okay, so you guys

734
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 6: are friends.

735
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, how what you know?

736
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 6: Because she's been through traumatic experience, you know, a big

737
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 6: traumatic experience, losing the love of her life, A book

738
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 6: like this would be like medicine to what she's gone through.

739
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 6: How was that event? Like when you celebrated, how is that?

740
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 6: Because I know you can see the healing directly in

741
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 6: her because she's your friend.

742
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 5: God, I just have to say one Laurena is an

743
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 5: exceptional woman. Like she is an exceptional woman with like

744
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 5: one of the sweetest, kindest like hearts you could ever imagine,

745
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 5: Like I've just like she's just one of the kindest,

746
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 5: most generous, heart centered women I have ever had the

747
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 5: pleasure of like being in sisterhood with.

748
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: I think, be honest with you.

749
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 5: We found out we were born in the same hospital.

750
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 5: There's a lot that is the that is similar. But

751
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 5: she's actually the first person I let read the book.

752
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 4: And it's because she is also such.

753
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 5: A wise woman who has done so much of her

754
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 5: own self work and self healing, Like she is a

755
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 5: very gifted and wise and so I wanted her eyes

756
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 5: on it her first, because I knew she could understand

757
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 5: the layers, you know, the complexity, the nuance of grief.

758
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 5: And so you know, as she was reading it, she

759
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 5: would just call me every few days and just be like, oh.

760
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: My god, you know this is amazing or this part

761
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: meant this to me. So it was really special.

762
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: And then you know, and she offered to do something

763
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 5: with me for the launch.

764
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 4: Of the book.

765
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 5: We had this gorgeous party in my garden. Gardening was

766
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 5: such a healer for me. And that also, I want

767
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 5: to say, I think is such a big anidote for

768
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 5: grief and anidote for healing. The more you can add

769
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 5: romance to your own life, man or woman, the more

770
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 5: you can add beauty to your life with intention, the

771
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 5: easier healing becomes. And it's also a scientific fact, like

772
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 5: beauty seen, beauty scene design, it can heal. It's why

773
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 5: even in some hospitals they have like healing gardens, so

774
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 5: there's colorful flower hours or access to sunlight or being

775
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 5: able to see growth. It changes the things inside of us.

776
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 5: So yeah, so she healed that beautiful day. She came

777
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 5: and hosted that beautiful day in my garden, and we

778
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: had so many people there and so many people in

779
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 5: the healing community, and it was just Yeah, there was

780
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 5: no feeling like it.

781
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 4: It was so special and so free.

782
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: I love that guard.

783
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: I think that's the last time I saw I think

784
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 3: the last time I saw yea Lie was in your guard.

785
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 4: I have a picture of that night.

786
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, we all we actually all recorded a podcast.

787
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 4: I can't it's too incriminating off brand.

788
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: Great. It was a great night though.

789
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 3: I just I don't know when you were just talking

790
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 3: about the guard I'm just like, the importance of that

791
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: is just to have a safe space, safe sacred place,

792
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: a safe sacred place.

793
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: You know you are not good with the back. No,

794
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: don't do that, Okay.

795
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

796
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: You Also, you dedicated your book and I'm probably gonna

797
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 3: pronounce her name wrong to my Hascal May Haskell Mays,

798
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: And I didn't know who that was until I went

799
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: to go look it up. And she was a young

800
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: woman who was dismembered and ensino what made you want

801
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: to dedicate the book to her?

802
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: And you said, I pray you are free.

803
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 5: M I have to be really careful talking about this

804
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 5: because the trial hasn't begun yet.

805
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: Gotcha.

806
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 4: She was a beautiful woman.

807
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 5: I had the privilege and the pleasure of meeting when

808
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 5: my son started kindergarten and our boys were friends, and

809
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 5: so my son is in first grade.

810
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 4: So this just.

811
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 5: Happened last year. And you know, I'm sure the parents listening,

812
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 5: Like when your kids are in kinder like, you're still

813
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 5: very connected to the other families, right because the kids

814
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 5: can't communicate on their own. So you're creating the play date.

815
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 5: You guys are getting together for all the birthday parties,

816
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 5: like you are seeing.

817
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: Each other almost seven days a week.

818
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 5: And she was the mother of this sweet, beautiful little

819
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 5: boy that was in class with my son and two

820
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 5: other sons. And her husband is currently incarcerated for allegedly

821
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: murdering her and her parents, and her body was completely dismembered.

822
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 5: Her head was taken, her limbs were taken and not recovered.

823
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 5: Her parents were dismembered, and then their bodies were dispersed

824
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 5: in the trash cans in my neighborhood.

825
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. There are whoors

826
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 4: in this world. You know.

827
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 5: I dedicated my book to her for so many reasons,

828
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 5: but it's really just like if someone takes your whole family,

829
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 5: who remembers you?

830
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 4: You know, Like.

831
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 5: I wanted to just honor the fact that she was here,

832
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 5: that she was alive, and that I will be thinking

833
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 5: about her every day of my life.

834
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: M hm m m m m mmmm O.

835
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: Living in wisdom, ladies and gentlemen. Debbie Brown is out today.

836
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: I got a lot more questions.

837
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: I just don't know where should Maybe we should go

838
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: somewhere else.

839
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: I do well, okay, Wusa, Yeah, does everybody need to.

840
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: Have a purpose?

841
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 4: I think everybody does have a purpose.

842
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 5: I think what we get wrong is that purpose has

843
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 5: to be quantified by something or that it has to

844
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 5: make money.

845
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 4: You know.

846
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 5: I think just like so many words are being appropriated

847
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 5: right now within mental health, I think think other words

848
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 5: are being used for performance, for really self validation sometimes

849
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 5: or ego. Right, like you hear people, well, my purpose

850
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 5: is this and my or you know, what's my purpose

851
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 5: and it's just another thing that you are kind of

852
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 5: mispouring yourself into purpose in my belief is simply you know,

853
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 5: it is your lived experience and the wisdom you've gleaned

854
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 5: from it.

855
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 4: It's the skills you've amassed in.

856
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: Any and everything you could have ever done. It's your

857
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 5: innate gifts, you know, the things that you have that

858
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 5: God gave you. And it's then using it to serve,

859
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 5: putting it back into service for others. And so you know,

860
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 5: it's like I could say my purpose is talking, right

861
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 5: because I was a broadcaster for years, I lead meditation,

862
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 5: I communicate all the things. But really, like I look

863
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 5: at my purpose as like being able to be in

864
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 5: darkness with people.

865
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 4: You know, I think my life's greatest purpose is the

866
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 4: fact that, like.

867
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 5: I'm not afraid of the dark, and I can be

868
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 5: in darker moments and not recoil with other people that

869
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 5: I can hold space for that. And I think, you know,

870
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 5: that may not be the most glorious purpose. It's not

871
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 5: the thing that's maybe gonna land me on a billboard,

872
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 5: but it's the thing that like God trained me for.

873
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 5: It's the thing that my life has bloomed into. And

874
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 5: I love it.

875
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: I love that.

876
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 2: I love how you break that down.

877
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 6: And also you spoke to how people over use words

878
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 6: because half the time people don't even know how to

879
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 6: answer that question, well, what is your purpose? I remember

880
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 6: I was watching one of my friends on a live

881
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 6: like asks a guy like she needs, she said, in

882
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 6: order to date, somebody didn't have to know their purpose.

883
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 6: Like but you know, she was on live with certain

884
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 6: people when the guy was like, I don't even know

885
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 6: what you're talking about when you say that, and so

886
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,959
Speaker 6: in return, she said he was dumb, but it was like, nah,

887
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 6: he really didn't know what that may like me, I

888
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 6: still don't know what my purpose is. I mean, I'm

889
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 6: grateful for the woman that I'm becoming in my spiritual

890
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 6: growth and everything, but I still don't know what my

891
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 6: purpose is and what if it's not just one thing,

892
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 6: you know what I mean?

893
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 4: And that's the thing.

894
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: It's not Yeah, it's not you know, And like it's

895
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 5: okay if finding your purpose takes your whole life, yes,

896
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 5: it's the point of being alive. Like why do we

897
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,439
Speaker 5: think we have to move so quickly through everything? That's

898
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 5: the validation piece, right, Like that's the wanting to be

899
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 5: seen in it or celebrated for it. But like if

900
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 5: it's your life's work, it is supposed to take your

901
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 5: whole life.

902
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

903
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 6: Because my mother in law, my husband's mother, she literally

904
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 6: just told me she just found out where her purpose

905
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 6: is and that is to take care of like to

906
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 6: oversee her granddaughter. I just gave her a beautiful granddaughter,

907
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 6: her very first grandchild. And that's what she said, holding

908
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 6: a baby like a few months ago. Oh, I know

909
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 6: what my purpose is now is to be here with

910
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 6: my family and to take care of my family because

911
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 6: she was living out the country for decades.

912
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: That was him, that's him.

913
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 6: He just started.

914
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: You have this moment.

915
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 2: Anything, I didn't say anything.

916
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 6: You say we have in law Mexican, Okay that you

917
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 6: don't don't do That's what I mean, you know, they're

918
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 6: trying to say purpose because of ice be.

919
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: I trying to I came back. I don't have nothing

920
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: to do.

921
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 6: He came back over here to take care of my child.

922
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 6: Every day they joke about her being I don't know what. Yes, literally.

923
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 4: You know, I mean, I understand the friction in this room.

924
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 4: I get like they just because.

925
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to give him, I don't want to.

926
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 6: I don't even want to talk about thank you so much.

927
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: But no, you do say in the book that that

928
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: you cannot have purpose without wisdom, and you can't have

929
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: purpose of wisdom without acknowledgment of every single experience.

930
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, acceptance, acknowledge your life. You know, this is

931
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 5: the thing like and I think for people that go

932
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 5: through things, which is all of us. As soon as

933
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 5: it switches and you start to have respect for yourself

934
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 5: for how you move through something, it changes everything. So

935
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 5: it's like, lean into your lived experiences. If you're not

936
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 5: thinking about your hardest experiences, you're leaving something on the table,

937
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 5: like you're leaving a lot of abundance on the table.

938
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 5: Because those are our keys, those are our keys to

939
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 5: the next level, those are our keys to deeper layers

940
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 5: of our own self.

941
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 3: I remember you told me that one time, and it

942
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: really did help change my life and just the way

943
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: I look at things because it's like, I remember you

944
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 3: told me, every single version of you deserves grace, every

945
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: version of you deserves love, every version of you deserves

946
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: that hittling. And I just when you told me that,

947
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you know, we all try to run

948
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 3: from certain parts of our lives, and it's just.

949
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: Like, no, you was that person. You should embrace that

950
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: person and give.

951
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 5: The them perra And look how much I mean, if

952
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 5: I could, if y'all would allow, Like even just when

953
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 5: I see the two of y'all, especially because I've known

954
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 5: y'all for long and seeing you over so many different

955
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 5: versions while also being you know, at the top of

956
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 5: your game, it's like something I've always admired, especially the

957
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 5: last ten years about you, mb is like the way

958
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 5: you and your wife have moved through the world is

959
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 5: so powerful and it is so healing for so many people.

960
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 5: And to see the way that you both decided to

961
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 5: look at one another in your hardest moments and seek

962
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 5: whatever needed to be done, no stone left unturned, to

963
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 5: repair your hearts and to then continue to be phenomenal

964
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 5: parents to your children. It's like that is literally an

965
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 5: example of what it is to like glean the wisdom

966
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 5: from your experiences and turn it into purpose. Like that

967
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 5: pain point for the two of you, because you chose

968
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 5: to be with it, to look at it, to feel

969
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 5: everything that was in it. Look how many lives you've blessed,

970
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 5: you know, It's like the count will go on and

971
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 5: on till the end of time. Like someone could find

972
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 5: your books in fifty years and it could be radically

973
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 5: transformative for them, Like that is dealing with your hard

974
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 5: experiences and the darker points and transmitting it into purpose

975
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 5: and making it wisdom the same, I mean so many.

976
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 4: Experiences with you as well.

977
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 5: And when you think, even just from a career standpoint,

978
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 5: and all the ways that you've elevated and grown every

979
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 5: step of the way, you have taken accountability for every

980
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 5: version of who you are, and then you've literally shown

981
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 5: up as the proof of who you've become. You know,

982
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 5: not just tongue in cheek, like you're not just saying that.

983
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 5: Like it's like you have always become a new version

984
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 5: and then paid everything forward. And I think that's the

985
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 5: living example of exactly what I'm saying, I do.

986
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: Want to ask you one more thing for you go

987
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 3: deb because we talk about you being on radio and

988
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 3: there's certain moments like this morning, I'm like, I do

989
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: wonder what dev would think about this, And it was

990
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 3: in regards to Kanye, right, And you know, Kanye last

991
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: week he posted, oh my mother was a lesbian, and

992
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 3: this week he posted that he sucked his cousin's penis,

993
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, till he was fourteen.

994
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: And in my mind, like, if you're not going to

995
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: go get help, Kanye, what are we supposed to do

996
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 1: with this information? I wonder what do you think?

997
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 5: That's a hard question to answer because I don't want

998
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 5: to be someone to give anybody a diagnosis, right, Like,

999
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 5: that is not my profession, that's not my right. In

1000
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 5: the past, and I don't know if he still identifies

1001
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 5: in this way. In the past, he has made mention

1002
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 5: that he does have mental illness. So here's the thing

1003
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 5: that I think we all really need to be a

1004
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 5: lot more real about. What is the difference between mental

1005
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 5: health and mental illness? What is the difference between like

1006
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 5: giving someone grace because they have anxiety and you know

1007
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 5: they're struggling, and actually giving grace to people that may

1008
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 5: be mentally ill. Nothing in his behavior seems odd to

1009
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 5: me if I look at it through that lens, And

1010
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 5: so if we see it through that lens, and again

1011
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 5: I don't know what or if there are any diagnosises

1012
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 5: present in his life, but if that was the case,

1013
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 5: we have to be honest about that, and we have

1014
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 5: to be honest about how we receive and experience people.

1015
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 5: If someone is ill in that way, no, perhaps they

1016
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 5: can't do better. No, perhaps they can't get help. If

1017
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 5: you are just suffering in your mental health, but you

1018
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 5: are not mentally ill, it is a lot easier and

1019
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 5: more possible to get help and change certain dynamics of yourself.

1020
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 5: If you actually have illness, that's something else entirely, And

1021
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 5: so I think that is that's something I would like

1022
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 5: to see change in the kind of like mainstream conversations

1023
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 5: as we talk about people like who is ill and

1024
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 5: does not have the ability to make different choices, especially

1025
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 5: if they're having a big response in their illness, and

1026
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 5: who is just not getting help because they don't feel

1027
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 5: like it or want to, or there's ego involved.

1028
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 4: So you know, that is my thought on.

1029
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 5: That it's been so hard to watch, you know, I

1030
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 5: think for a lot of us, and it's been going

1031
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 5: on for a long time, but it's like, this is

1032
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 5: someone that also.

1033
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: Added a lot of joy to a lot of our lives,

1034
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 4: right Like.

1035
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 5: When I think of the Graduation album, that's like when

1036
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 5: we first met, I was so broke and so confused

1037
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 5: and so like and that album gave me hope, you know.

1038
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 4: And so.

1039
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 5: It's hard to watch who he's become because I don't

1040
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 5: agree with so much of his behavior.

1041
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely all right, Debbie Brown Living in with Them A

1042
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 3: Path to embodying your authentic self, embracing grief, and developing

1043
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,720
Speaker 3: self mastery, available everywhere you buy books.

1044
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: Now, go pick it up. If you love the sound

1045
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: of Dev's voice.

1046
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 3: If you miss her on the radio, you can go

1047
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: get the audio version as well, and make sure you

1048
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 3: subscribing her podcast, the Deeply Well podcast on the Black Effect.

1049
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 1: iHeart radio podcast network. Dev. You already know I love

1050
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: you to death.

1051
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

1052
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 4: Thank you three. I love you, big fan.

1053
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: She was Jesse. She was singing your praises for a while.

1054
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 4: I was texting him all the time. I was like,

1055
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 4: she is amazing. Oh my god.

1056
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,479
Speaker 5: And I also have to say I just want to say,

1057
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 5: like for you, thank you for what you give to

1058
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 5: the world, and thank you for the example you show

1059
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 5: up in like you're an amazing mom, an entrepreneur and

1060
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 5: credibly talented and gifted woman across fields and you're doing

1061
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 5: all of it, you know, and I think that that

1062
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 5: no one can really understand how hard that is, especially

1063
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 5: as a mom, to give your kids the love they

1064
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 5: deserve and show up in your purpose for other people.

1065
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: So thank you, all right, and thank you Debbie for

1066
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 2: being you. Thank you. I just to remember that conversation

1067
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: we had last time, remember.

1068
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: Her knocking nobody up that never happened.

1069
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 4: We have to get back to that.

1070
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: I remember that give each other grace, even the breakfast

1071
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning, the breakfast club