1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into All Ball. I'm Doug Gottli. We had 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: a great guest for you this week. His name is 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Chris Lowry. If you know college basketba're like, oh, I oh, 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Chris Lowry. He played at Something Illinois. He was once 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: upon a time to coach at Something Illinois when they 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: were rolling. They remember they made it to sixth straight 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: n c A Tournament sets with three combined coaches Bruce Weber, 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Mad Painter than Chris Lowry, and then the bottom kind 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: of fell out. What happened, how did it fall out? 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: Did he know what was coming? And what did he 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: learned from the experience. What was it like to bury 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: his son? What was it like to lose your job? 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: What's it like a Kansas State and what would it 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: mean for Kansas State to win the Big Twelve? And 15 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: for Bruce Webber, who replaced Bill Self at Illinois, finally 16 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: beat Bill Self in the Big Twelve standings? All of 17 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: those questions will be asked of Chris Lowry. I think 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: you'll really enjoy our discussion. I do want to share 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: with you something that I find interesting. If you've listened 20 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: to this show, if you listen to this podcast or 21 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: to my radio show that Doug Gotlip show, Fox Sports 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: Radio every day three to six Eastern time, twelve to 23 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: three Pacific. You know that I'm I would guess I'm 24 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: anti pay the player. I feel like the payment is 25 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: already received in regards to not just the scholarship, room board, etcetera, etcetera, 26 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: but just admission to school and the payment that you 27 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: received for years to come, not just in your degree, 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: but in the relationships which are fostered which allow you 29 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: to succeed post playing career. You know, when you get 30 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: downe playing, you pick up the phone you need a job, 31 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: who are you gonna call? You're gonna call people from 32 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: your alma mater or when you walk in to apply 33 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: for a job, they remember you because you played for 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: your alma mater and maybe played against theirs or played 35 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: for theirs. So I think there's an invaluable asset commodity 36 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: that we don't talk enough about in the media that 37 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: for some reason we're anti school, We're anti we're anti 38 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: everything big, and because schools make money off athletes, they 39 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: believe that somehow athletes deserve payments. A couple of truths 40 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: need to be told here. First, schools make money off 41 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: all of their students, Lots and lots and lots of 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: money off all of their students, regardless of their athletic prowess. 43 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: And then the irony to it is the second you 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: walk out the door with a degree which you paid for, 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: and they made money on you and on your parents, 46 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: and also the state funding that the non privates the 47 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: public schools are are able to get. Then they ask 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: you for money in order to continue making money off 49 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: their students, either current or former. The first thing is 50 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: this idea that you only make money off of athletes 51 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: is is dumb and shortsighted. They make money off of 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: all of their students and they're the only differences. There's 53 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: a ton more payment that goes back in return to 54 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: the student athlete. But was Zion Williamson and do play 55 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: in North Caroline in front of a packed house and 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: you hear the ticket prices up a four thousand dollars? 57 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: First of all, that's stupid. Nobody's paying four thousand dollars 58 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: uh to to sit in Cameron in door. If they are, 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: they're a sucker, They're a whale. They just are. But 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself, does this prove that Zion 61 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: as a commodity is more valuable, then, uh, then college 62 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: basketball loan. Now, if you want to say that the 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: reason the ticket price is jacked up is because of 64 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: Zion Williamson, I'm okay with that, But that admits that 65 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: there isn't another college basketball player that would drive the 66 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: market so high or even above that of face value. Right, 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: how many half empty, if at best arenas do we see? 68 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: So if Zion has value, what about everybody else? Which 69 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: is kind of the point right now, it's it's a 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: great system for of the kids. But the other part too, 71 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: it is uh to two other parts. First, is Zion 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: packed the house against um LaMelo Ball in a summer 73 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: league game? So if it's because the house is act 74 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: with Zion Williamson playing in it, what about high school 75 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: gyms that are packed because of a kid? Does that 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: mean those kids that are to be paid? So the 77 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: first thing you're doing is you're making it obvious that 78 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: there is no value to any other one individual player 79 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: in college basketball. That's an important distinction to make. If 80 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: Zion Williamson is the sole reason for the ticket prices 81 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: being spiked, and look, I don't actually think anybody's paying 82 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: for a grand for ticket. What you're asking for, what 83 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: you get if you play basketball, that's like playing in Greece. 84 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: What they tell you're going to get paid, what you 85 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: actually get paid. Or you know, if you're just a guy, 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: how many women have you been with? Cut it in half? 87 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: How many men has she been with? Add you know, 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: multiply by two. Right, But the idea that okay, maybe 89 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: it is a three thousand dollars some ridiculously price ticket 90 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: that admits that if no other tickets are going above face, 91 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: and no other tickets go above face, then really no 92 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: one else has value, which is accurate the values in 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: the coaches, because they're the only ones that returned, and 94 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: they're the ones that recruit players, and they essentially night 95 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: the players, which makes us want to watch those players. 96 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: But the second part to it, and here's where it's 97 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: false to assume that it's simply about Zion Williamson is 98 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the a factor, sure, but he's played in five other 99 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: games and there hasn't been this sort of bartering for 100 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, this sort sort of a monetary amount towards 101 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: the ticket. It has to do with the North Carolina 102 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: rivalry with the town on the other team with Roy 103 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: Williams versus coach k with the size and the history 104 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: of the band Box in Camberdy North stating that they 105 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: play in and oh yeah, by the way, there's been 106 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: a relentless hype machine, just like last year with three 107 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: young this year with Zion Williams. And because nobody pays 108 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: attention to college basketball, we need one guy to watch, 109 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: and this is the one guy to watch. This is 110 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: the big rivalry. It's played in the unique Bandbox arena. 111 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: There's a bunch of a bun a myriad of reasons 112 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: why the ticket prices in the secondary ticket market of Spiked, 113 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: but only a small fraction of it is Zion. And 114 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: if you admit that one big part is Zion, then 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: you'd have to admit, well, that means that everyone else 116 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,239 Speaker 1: in the sport has no value in terms of ticket prices. 117 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: Let me kick quick nugget on the NBA. And this 118 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: is important to point out that one of the ways 119 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: in which you know if somebody said or did something 120 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: they are not supposed to do and they don't apologize, 121 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: if if they completely can change the narrative right and 122 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: somebody gets to them, Um, what's the guy's named Frank 123 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: pontagically from the Godfather to remember Frank pontasically he turned 124 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: state's evidence, and he's gonna turn in Michael Corleone. He 125 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,679 Speaker 1: goes before the Supreme Court and all of a sudden, 126 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: Michael corleonly sitting with uh, a man who doesn't speak 127 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: English and ink pin change. All of a sudden changes 128 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: tune Michael Colone. Michael Colone. No, his family and my 129 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: family do business and all of old business. Yes, right, 130 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: That's what happened with Anthony Davis over the All Star break. 131 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: He started the All Star Break leaving the bench of 132 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: the New Orleans Pelicans to get his shoulder looked looked at, 133 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: gets an m R. I, then leaves the arena and 134 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: his coach loses his mind. Rightfully, so Alvin Gentry to 135 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,559 Speaker 1: everybody in the in the NBA respects, really, really likes 136 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: as a man, respects as a coach. Del Dems gets 137 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: fired the next day and um then the Commissioner of 138 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: the NBA says what we're all thinking, which is, hey, 139 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: it's cool if you want to ask for a trade 140 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, but making it public and then tearing 141 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: apart of the franchises in your in your desire to 142 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: get there. That's not how we want to do business. 143 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: That's why Anthony Davis went from the I want to 144 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: be a Laker to a teams. I mean, if teams, 145 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: why not thirty? Why not be open to staying with 146 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: the Pelicans? Because it's so disingenuous. And even when he 147 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: said twenty nine teams, he said for the next year, 148 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: which means he's not going to commit to staying long term. 149 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: But that that that's like a Frank pantaently moment Lakers Lakers, 150 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: I'll go anywhere to play. I don't I don't care. 151 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: I know the Celtics are still gonna go after him, 152 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: the Nicks will probably go after him. And my my, 153 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: my big question with the Lakers, obviously with the Pelicans 154 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: has been will they even get the offer that they 155 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: desire or think they may have gotten before the trade deadline? 156 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: And my guess is no, that's a depreciating asset. The 157 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: offers aren't likely to go up. They might might go 158 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: down if some of those players play play well here 159 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the season. But my big question 160 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: is does Anthony Davis Lebron James actually fit together well? 161 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: Lebron James won two NBA titles um and for the 162 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: most part, his finishing lineup has had his center in 163 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: the corner, spacing the floor. I know Anthony Davis can 164 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: shoot the balls, become a better three point shooter, but 165 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: that's the worst thing he does. How do those two 166 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: fit together? Well? Can Anthony Davis defend the rim? Sure? 167 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: Does he want to play center full time? I don't know, 168 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: but that's what would happen. That's what happened. And when 169 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: Lebron has the ball in isolation sets, if he's not 170 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: setting a pick and roll and runs not really a 171 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: pick and roll player, you can play something that's all 172 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: he does best. All of a sudden, now you got 173 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: any Davis spacing the floor, standing in the corner like 174 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: Chris Bosh and Kevin Love did. I'm not sure they 175 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: actually fit together all that well, let me take a 176 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: minute to tell you about robin Hood. Robin Hood is 177 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks, 178 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: et fs, options, and cryptos all commission free. 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All right, 196 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: let me get you to Chris Lowry. I've known Chris 197 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: Lowry now for over a decade. That covered his games 198 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: when he was an assistant at Southern Illinois. When his 199 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: assistant in Illinois, he's a head coach at Southern and 200 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: of course now since he's moved to to Kansas State 201 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: as an assistant coach. Chris Lowry is a fascinating, fascinating guy. 202 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: Here's my discussion with the Kansas State assistant basketball coach 203 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: at the time of this recording. You guys just got 204 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: back from Morgantown, uh, and it was kind of a 205 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of it's it's I don't know, I don't know 206 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: what it was like to play the game, but to 207 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: watch the game, it's kind of like polar opposite of 208 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: what it had been like to go into Morgantown. Usually 209 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: crazy environment where the home team's favored and they're going 210 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: to try and kind of find a way, whereas in 211 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: this case, the place was I don't know, half three 212 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: quarters full. They're a little bit down this year, and 213 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: you guys pulled away in the second half. What was 214 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: what was the difference? So how are you able to 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: win that game in the road? Well, the biggest thing is, 216 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, Javon Cars has come you know, I mean 217 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: they were so dominant defensively, you know the past four 218 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: years and the press, Virginia UM and those guys generating 219 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: so much offense from defense. And now they've lost Daxter Mile, 220 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: they lost their van and and SAgs is out. You know, 221 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: a big kid in the middle, you know who was 222 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: a big part of of why they were special. You know, 223 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: those guys don't have the uniform anymore, so it's a 224 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: it's a different lineup. Um, it's definitely a different feel. 225 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: You know. We told our we told our guys we 226 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: lost by thirty five there last year and it wasn't 227 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: twenty and we just made it up, you know, to 228 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: make it feel good that we lost. We actually lost 229 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: by thirty five in Morgantown last year. So, um, being 230 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: able to go there and fight and and and you know, 231 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: and that's what they've been doing. His teams are gonna 232 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: still play hard. They're gonna play hard, Um, and until 233 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: to a point. That's what we told our guys. When 234 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: we get them to that point, we definitely got to 235 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: take advantage of it. And you did. And UM, I 236 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: mean I thought you you guys showed good poise against 237 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: the pressure and got got good shots, made the extra 238 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: pass like there was I know that the the average 239 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: basketball fan just looks at the box score and goes, well, yeah, 240 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: of course Kansa State beat West Virginia. But those things, 241 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: those games can go, can go sideways in a hurry. 242 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: You get down, they start throwing in shots. You started 243 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: struggling with the refs on the road. Like I thought, 244 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: there was some some toughness there that showed from this team. Absolutely. 245 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: Our senior class was obviously extremely tough. And Barry Brown 246 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: is just nails and and Barry Barry got a technical 247 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: there last year. Barry was not very good at all 248 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: last year. Javon Carter want both matchups with him. And 249 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: then the kind of ironic thing. We go in the 250 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: gym to practice, you know, shoot around yesterday and Javan 251 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: Carter is on break from from the NBA All Star 252 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: and we just started laughing and it's like Barry had 253 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: a nightmare. This guy's coming back. You know, he was 254 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: in there working out, and you know that's that's the 255 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: reality of it is Guys remember who their nemesis are 256 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: and for for that guy to show up, and even 257 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: though he wasn't playing, you know, everybody's eyes got big. 258 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: We walked to that gym and sol him in there. 259 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Barry Brown, I think is like top five and scoring 260 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: now he's like first and steels in his career. How 261 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: did you how did you get him? Remind me of 262 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: how you you got him because he's a four year 263 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: kid from Florida. For your kid. You know, he played 264 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: on a unbelievably loaded each one teach one team with 265 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: two NBA guys, Ben Simmons and the other kid on 266 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: the bulls Um. You know, they were all the same 267 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: team and Waffords lead to score the guy who really 268 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: can really shoot the crap out of the ball. They 269 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: were all on one team and and Barry was like 270 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: the sixth man, and you know he just you know, 271 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: Chester Fraser saw him at Oladipo camp and he really 272 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: scored the ball um at High Cliff and we fought, 273 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: We watched ment a peace jam and he played a 274 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: little bit and you know he whenever he get in 275 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: he gets five or six. But when Ben Simmons went 276 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: home and the other top player didn't show up in 277 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: Louisville for a Nationals, you know, all of a sudden, 278 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: this this guy who we know was Barry Brown was 279 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: that guy on the team and he was leading him 280 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: and scoring. He was, you know, stilling the ball he 281 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: was doing and he was scoring from all over the place. 282 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: And one thing Coach Webber is big on is this, 283 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: we may not get the toppy lead player, but if 284 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: they will come and continue to grow with us and 285 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: develop that those guys can start in any league in 286 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: the country. Him there, he's one of those guys who 287 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: we identified and said he fits us, um and give 288 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: him an opportunity as a freshman and just ride with him. 289 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: And now that's you know, he's become such a dominant player. 290 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: So walk me through this though, Like, like you said, 291 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: he plays on a loaded AU team right where you 292 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: got you got a couple of pros and um, um 293 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: m hm. He plays on a on a loaded DAYU team. 294 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: He's got a got a cup pros and then he plays, Um, 295 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: what's Fletcher McGee? Is that the kid you're talking about 296 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: from Yeah, Fletcher is on the team too. Yeah, okay, 297 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: so what I guess my first question why didn't you 298 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: Did you not recruit Fletcher? Did you? We did? We 299 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: did recruit Fletcher, We actually did. We just didn't know 300 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: if he could get up to our level because you 301 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: know he wasn't the fleet is the foot. But you 302 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: know you watched him like, holy cat, like this guy can. 303 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's what he does now is what 304 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: he was doing. There's no there's been no change, and 305 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: he picked the right level and he's been a dominant player, 306 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: right and and and and people. I don't think people 307 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: sometimes understand the difference in levels and how um and 308 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: and even if right now he would be a star 309 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: in the Big twelve, the fact is that had he 310 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: come to Kansas State, he wouldn't have played the first 311 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: couple of years right and and and may have never 312 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: grown and evolved in terms of confidence and become just 313 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: kind of an off the bench catch and shoot guy, 314 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: whereas now like he's gonna make an NBA team, he 315 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: would have been drafted last year For somebody who's a 316 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: young coach or a basketball fan and they're listening, how 317 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: do you evaluate that that Barry Brown who comes up 318 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: the bench and plays limited minutes like he can play 319 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: in the Big twelve? And I don't know if you 320 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: thought he would be a great player, a first team 321 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: All Big Twelve, potential Big Twelve Player of the Year player, 322 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: but that's what he is. How do you evaluate that 323 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: versus fletchermcghee. Was it was its speed and athleticism? Was 324 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: its size for a position? What is it that separates 325 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: the two when you're evaluating well with with Barry he 326 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: was so fast and he could just steal the ball 327 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: from people week that's the first thing. You know, obviously 328 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: we're defensive minded. Barry could really guard the ball and 329 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: he can make pull ups. So he's making all these 330 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: pull ups right now, and that's the first thing. He's like, 331 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: holy ship, that dude a throwback guy. Like he makes 332 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: lay ups and pull ups. He's not making threes, and 333 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: people just don't value that he can't shoot the three, 334 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: but you know, pay attention. He'll score ten points and 335 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, two of the lay us and three or 336 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: pull ups on people like hard pull ups in the 337 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: E Y B L are just like damn, that's a 338 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: tough shot. And on the high major level, you look 339 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: at Fletcher McGee and we basically we're looking at him 340 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: as a specialist as opposed to being a player, like 341 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: not a sell no Lloyd. He would be a player 342 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: for us and not a specialist, you know, And that's 343 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: the that's the difference. Because of the levels different. Can 344 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: can Fletcher McGhee get a bucket other than a three? 345 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: And then we would we would use him as a 346 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: specialist early on and then hope that he could evolve 347 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: into a player, whereas on the mid level he's a 348 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: player from day one because and then you can improve it, 349 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: and you get you improving, your confidence grows and your 350 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: confidence grows. Kind of the sky is limited. You know, 351 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: Guys work, Guys get Guys get better, and some guys 352 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: improve it it at a different rate. Um, all right, 353 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: so you grew up in Evansville, and Evansville is this 354 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: two people outside Like we all think of just Indiana 355 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: and you think of Indianapolis. But I know, like Walter 356 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: McCarty took over at Evil, I know Brad Barnell is another. 357 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: There's like a big group of Evansville guy. Who is 358 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: the group of guys you grew up around when you're playing? 359 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: Which kind of when I tell people who I like 360 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: grew up with, great school, middle school, high school. So 361 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: obviously the first one is Calvert Cheney, who was a 362 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: great player at i U National Player of the Year 363 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: ninety three. You know me and cal you know we're 364 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: childhood friends. Walter McCarty, I went to middle school in 365 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: high school with you know, childhood friends, one of my 366 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: best friends. When a national championship Kentucky played the NBA 367 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: just like calb Brad right now was I was a freshman, 368 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: needs to see and that was a guy my high 369 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: school coach told me, I don't like your too short. 370 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I like my point guards tall. That's who I replaced 371 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: in the line was brab Brunell. You know, it was 372 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: player of the year in our league, the city and 373 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: great player. Um then on the football side of Kevin 374 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: Hardy who won the buckets in nineties four, hunting five 375 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: and lay the NFL for ten years. We were all 376 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: in the same you know, high school, middle school, grade schools. 377 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's absolutely crazy. So, uh see, what how 378 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: did you decide on Southern? I decided that Southern because 379 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: you know, obviously I had all the valley schools and 380 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: the MAC and I just Southern of the school that 381 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: told me, hey, we got all conference point guard. But 382 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: after that, you're gonna start for three years. And basically 383 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: it was true. You know what they told me actually happened. 384 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: And you know, best decision I ever made, you know, 385 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: because you could get caught up in because when Doug, 386 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: you know this, we were coming up. If you were 387 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: a little you were in a combo. You were a 388 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: point guard. Only now now dudes to get away with 389 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: being a combo because they can't make decisions or they 390 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: can't playmate. But they can shoot, you know, and that 391 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: if you couldn't be a point guard and you you 392 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: couldn't play, you were off the bench. You're you're a 393 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: reserve guy. You had to be doing all of it, 394 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: be able to penetrate, playmate, make plays, and lead the team. 395 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: So you you show up it and for people who haven't, 396 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: like you're not. I don't know the type of neighborhood 397 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: you're from in Evansville, but it's not a terrible neighborhood. 398 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: But it's a city. It's an Evansville is a city, right, Um, Okay, 399 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: you show up in in Carbondale, Illinois, which I mean 400 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: it's called Egypt. Is it called Egypt because it's bum 401 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: fuck Egypt? Is that why they called Egypt? Is that 402 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: where Egypt comes from? But I mean, it's it's and 403 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: you and I have a great affinity for it. But 404 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: what what was that experience like when you're like, dude, 405 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: I'm in literally the middle of nowhere. It's it's one 406 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: of those deals where actually, you know, they call a 407 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: little Egypt because of the fertile farm land around and 408 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: there's lakes and all kinds of stuff. It's actually a beautiful. 409 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: But like you said, it is. It is somewhere that 410 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: you have to know where you're going to get there, 411 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: because if you show up there, you're like, well, the hell, 412 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: where where is this that you know? And and and 413 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: the one thing that drove they had tremendous fans support. 414 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: It was like it was the deal, you know, it 415 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: was it was the deal. And uh, it's it's just 416 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: one of those places where it's a college town. Is 417 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: only twenties six thousand, you know, people in the town. 418 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,239 Speaker 1: It's about you know, thousand students. So the studs are 419 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: the town. There's there's no commercial industry. The university is 420 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: the town. When you got there, did you play for 421 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: rich Hard? Is that who you play for? Yeah? Rich Hairing? 422 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,719 Speaker 1: Who was he like coach? He was he was an 423 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: older coach and it was hard to relate to him. 424 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: But you know, I came from Indiana where we didn't 425 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: do stuff like push it and shoot threes on the break, 426 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: Like we didn't do stuff like that. You know, you 427 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: know you you we Balkans or we do motion. You 428 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: know how to play you know our attack zones, shot bag, 429 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: past bake, you make plays, coachairmings like take me out. 430 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: If I didn't like shoot all the break or if 431 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't super aggressive and transition, and so I had 432 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: to learn how to be free and loose. Did I 433 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: come up in a system where you was regimented? It 434 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: was you know, skills and I Q driven to go 435 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: to play in an open offense where you go get 436 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: your game on. So, um, so you play there, you 437 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: start start three years. What was your best year as 438 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 1: a sophomore? I mean that had a great sophomore year, 439 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: all conference and we won the league. Um, number one seed, 440 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: got upset in the tournament, and uh ended up going 441 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: to n I T my sophomore year. So we start 442 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: to go to n I T and two n C 443 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: Double A tournaments in about four years, the and the 444 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: and and that's when it kind of kind of kind 445 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: of started there. Um, it's fascinating me because the valley 446 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: used to be so good. Like of the things I 447 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: miss most about nineties basketball is the valley. Like my 448 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: my brother was at Drake for two years and he 449 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: used to tell me, like, dude, remember that was when 450 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: people forget Tulsa was in the valley a big time. 451 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean Tulsa was that that was when Tulsa was 452 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: big time that was when they were in the valley, 453 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: was when this thing kind of all started. What was 454 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: your do you remember your favorite place to play? Probably 455 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: at Illinois State, Um, you know playing there. Playing at 456 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: Tulsa was always fun too. UM. But there's so many 457 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: venues and it was you know, it's to call it 458 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: the Baby Big Ten because it was so physical it was. 459 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: There's so many good players. There was pros in the league, 460 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: and Um, you had some really there's big time coaches. 461 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: Bill was there. You know at Kansas you had Tubby, 462 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: Kevin Staling, Bruce Webber, Matt Paynter. You had so many 463 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: guys that were that were in the league. You know, 464 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: Max he was that creating Like there's so many guys 465 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 1: in that league that you're just like, oh my god. 466 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: Kevin Stalins was Kevin Stalins was said at Illinois State. Right. 467 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know you kind of go through there 468 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: and it's really amazing. Okay, so you get you get done, 469 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: you get downe play in, you finish up, and then 470 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: what where are you in your life? I'm I'm in 471 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: my life, you know, I'm like every other dude. I 472 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: want to steal hoot, but my knees are done. I understand, 473 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: I gotta figure this ship out. So I, you know, 474 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: I just started coaching juco ball right away, you know, 475 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: and that's the you know, so many guys getting the profession. 476 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: You know. I literally didn't want to leave the game. 477 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: So I was like, well, let me try this. And 478 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: the guy who was the g A at SOUTHERNOOI in 479 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: my freshman and sophomore year ended up being that they 480 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: had juco coach at ren Lake and Junior Cohens right 481 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: outside of Carbondale, And that was my first job. So 482 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: your your first job was as an assistant ren Lake, right, 483 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: and you guys have anybody good? We were pretty good. 484 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: We won twenty games my last year there. We have 485 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: a really good player who went up going to uy 486 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: C and they're really good. And in the late nineties 487 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: with Jimmy Collins, you know, his first his first two 488 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: n C Double A tournament teams. Our guy was big 489 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: part of that. And so just that's how you learn, 490 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, the different aspects of recruiting. You know, here 491 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: at Jukoke you have players that Division one coaches want 492 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: to get, so you learn how to deal with that 493 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: side of it and recruiting, you know, and then you 494 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: then you then you go and change levels and then 495 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: you have to go back to those two in college 496 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 1: guys and try to get their players. So learning how 497 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: to talk to Juko guys and to recruit Juko players, 498 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: it was obviously benefited from being at juco coach. Was 499 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: it one of those things where you just couldn't wait 500 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: to get out or were you mean, what was it? 501 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: What was the experience like for you? It was great? 502 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: I mean I loved it. I mean I knew I 503 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: wanted to coach at that point. And and it's so 504 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: interesting because it wasn't it was never about money at all. 505 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: It was about, man, I think I really want to 506 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: do this. And you go to the final four and 507 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: you just, you know, you used to call it the 508 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: Shark team. You walk around and you pass out here 509 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: here your your resume, two guys and just say, I'm 510 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: you know juco coach. Oh yeah, you know, recruiting one 511 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: of your guys, you know, a couple of years ago. 512 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: You know, I want to try to you know, move up. 513 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: And you know, I literally did that, passed out resumes 514 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: in the you know, in the in the headquarters um 515 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: in n at the age at the final four and 516 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: in Annapolis, trying to get a job, trying to move up. 517 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: Here's what you don't Here's what you don't know, or 518 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: maybe you don't. I don't think we've ever discussed this. 519 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: I actually met you. You were at Missouri Southern, which 520 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: is in Joplin. My my college roommate, Rodney Suitor, was 521 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: from Miama, Oklahoma, which is just on the other side 522 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: of the border in Oklahoma. And then my wife and 523 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: then he was dating a girl from Joplin. And then 524 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: my wife's best friend was also from or was she's 525 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: now married to a guy. She lives in Joplin. But 526 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: we came around. We were messing around your gym. I 527 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: don't remember if it was guy named Jeff Hayfer who 528 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: played at Missouri. Yeah, and and Hafer was like, hey, 529 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: if you're in town, like come hoop. And we hooped 530 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: on like a Saturday Sunday morning or something. And we 531 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: actually met then and I didn't meet you again until 532 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: you were an assistant Southern. You guys had a rolling 533 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: So how did you how did you get to Missouri Southern? 534 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: What was that? What was that like? Well, one of 535 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: the guys that met in that lobby needed a g 536 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: A for Division two, you know team, and of course 537 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, hell yeah, I want to. I definitely move up. 538 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: And you know, obviously I got a chance to recruit, 539 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: do scouting reports, do all the dirty work. And that's 540 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: back when you used to go live scout people. So 541 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: I learned how to live scout uh a game, and 542 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, and learn and learn how to do, you know, 543 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: do breakdown film with ol vhs, you know, with two 544 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: different VCRs going back and forth to do a scouting report. 545 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: Like these kids today, they just get off synergy. It's 546 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: so lazy down up on synergy. Like here's all the 547 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: ball screens that they've run this year, right, give me 548 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: all the makes by number twenty, does you know what 549 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: I mean? That's you know, we had to literally watch 550 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of film and one to it back 551 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: and forth between two vhs. Is when the dual VJ 552 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: VHS came out, you would have thought that college coach 553 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: has went crazy over Okay, so who's your who's the coach? 554 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: Robert corn is a coach and ironically he played for 555 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: my for rich Heron in high school, which Harmon was 556 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: the high school coach before he was the head coach 557 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: his son Nolois. So he gave me an opportunity, big time, 558 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: my opportunity to never forget it. And you know, obviously 559 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: he's a big part of you know me, you know, 560 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: evolving as a as a as a young coach. And 561 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: then Heron played fast? How did how did how did 562 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: Corn play? Corn was a uh and this is like 563 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: all tight end. He's a Gene Bartow disciple, which is crazy. 564 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: He played at Memphis for coach Bartow. Barton was there, 565 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: Um he was. He was his top assistant at you 566 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: A B for several years, uh in the eighties when 567 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: when you know, obviously when you A B started a 568 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: program after he left U c l A. So I 569 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: got a lot of different people involved in my whole coaching, 570 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: you know. Obviously Coach Bartow was a big part of 571 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: from my guy coaching concepts. So we played really fast 572 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: there too, but we played really organized and we always 573 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: had a plan for how to win, which is something 574 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: as a young player you don't you don't get that, 575 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: like you know, the Scout reports side of it. We're 576 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: having a plan to win. Coach Coin showed me that guys, 577 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, good players are one thing, but you gotta 578 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: have a plan how you're gonna do it, and and 579 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: you know that's what I learned from him. Okay, So 580 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: then you went to Semo for a year. Who's that 581 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: coach of Semo? See Gary Garner? And Gary Garner you know, 582 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: obviously he was a he was a guy who played 583 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: at MISSOI he's a Norm Stewart guy. So my year 584 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: with coach Garner was coach Coach Stewart's first year out. 585 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: And I'm telling you you would have thought coach Stewart 586 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: he'd come down and he'd God, you wanna talk about 587 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: a fiery guy, and he get on get on our 588 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: guys in our practice, because you know he was he was, 589 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: you know he was he was done coaching. And obviously 590 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: coach Garner was one of his disciples. And coach Garner 591 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: had won two national championships on Division two level. And 592 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: he know my guy, you know Robert Corn because they're 593 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: the same region. He was at Porta, a state which 594 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: is right over in Kansas, and and just you know, 595 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: asking people around and good you know assistant who was 596 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: an up and come. It works hard. You know, there's 597 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: not gonna be a Premadonna has worked his buff and 598 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: and obviously I got the job because of that. And 599 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: then where were you? Where is this in your relationship 600 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: with your wife? Well we are, we're already married. And 601 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: do you get merrd at school? You get me rid 602 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: of No, no, no, we got married when I was 603 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: in Missouri Southern Missouri Southern b B two. So this 604 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: is like three years after I'm done playing. Um okay, 605 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: so so then how did you then you go back 606 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: to Southern? Right? Uh? With with coach right? I mean 607 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: that wasn't that was so so let me this is 608 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: a funny story. So I interviewed like three times for 609 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: coach whoever. You like. People on the inside know this. 610 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: I interviewed the when he first got the job and 611 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I was still Atmcessuri Southern, and you know, his first 612 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: questions or me, or do do I know like high 613 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: end you know, recruiting guys, And I'm like, of course not. 614 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: Then D two A juko. I know the underbelly of recruiting. 615 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: I know the other side. You know, he's asking me, 616 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: and obviously I didn't get a job. Then the very 617 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: next year I interview again and didn't get it. And 618 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: then you know, I'm at Simo and my son is born, 619 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: cause you know, and you know my son Doubs but 620 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: who passed away in two thousand sixteen. He was born 621 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: that year and it was such a tough year for 622 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: me that I told coach whoever I wasn't interested he called, 623 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: because I was like, I'm not gonna go through that again. 624 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: And so Paint his assistant there. Me and Paint grew up. 625 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: In the end, I've known Paint from a you we 626 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: grew up. You know, you grew up playing against everybody 627 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: knows the good players in the end, So Me and 628 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: Paint on each other for years, and uh, Paint goes, 629 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm telling you you're you're coming. He goes, Coach webverything, 630 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: offer you the job. I go, I haven't talked to 631 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: coach Weever. He calls. He calls Coach Webber, and the 632 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: coach Weeber calls and starts talking to me about insurance. 633 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: And that's what type of guy Bruce Webber is. He 634 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: knew what I was going through. My son he would 635 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: almost passed away, and he was he was literally he 636 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: was about two months old and he was still in 637 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: the hospital. And for a guy, you know, to call 638 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: me and just talk talking about insurance and you know, 639 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: we'll find a way to take care of your son. 640 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: That was his priority with me over hiring me. That 641 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: just that that's why I'm tight with him. My family 642 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: is tight with his family. My wife loves his wife 643 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: like we were were inter twined just because of that 644 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: side of our relationship. Now do you know, do you 645 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: know the Bruce Webber story with with my dad? I 646 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: don't so. Dave Webber's brother was my dad's favorite player 647 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: at w Milwaukee. This is in the in the mid 648 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: late seventies, and I think it was just his just 649 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: one year. Bruce was my dad's I was a manager 650 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: or g A. And then when um, when coach Katie 651 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: got the West Kentucky job, my dad called coach Katie 652 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: was like, hey, I got a young guy, young assistant 653 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: you gotta hire. Now. My dad knew Coach Katie because 654 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: my dad had been assistant under Eddie Sutton back in 655 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: crap and so like that's how that's that's how it works. 656 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: So is that you Milwaukee he's his? You'd have to 657 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: ask him. I can't remember if he was a g 658 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: A or if he was a head manager, but he was. 659 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he traveled with the team, he's around the team, 660 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: and you know, up until the day he died, my 661 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: dad would say that that Dave Webber was his favorite 662 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: player he ever coached, um and so and anyway, So 663 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: that's how Bruce kind of got started into that basketball family, 664 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: and then obviously it grew to be part of you'd 665 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: be part of his basketball family. Okay, so you you graduate, 666 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: you go to JUY coach Juco, you coach D two. 667 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: You're in low D one and simo, you roll back 668 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: into town with the wife a newborn, but a newborn 669 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: baby that has has some some special needs as well. 670 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: What was that like to be back in Carbondale where 671 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: you had previously been as a player and of course 672 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: had been as a JUCO coach as well. It was 673 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: it was good. You know that time. We had three 674 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: kids and daughter and c J and then al Cahari 675 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: is a third we you know, so so it was 676 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: it was awesome. And the thing about it is, you know, 677 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: we coach we it wasn't where it's going to go. 678 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: And I got there and obviously when you're on the staff, 679 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: you gotta figure out your niche. You know, I knew, 680 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: you know, obviously everybody knows. Matt Painter, his offensive mind 681 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: is unbelievable. You know how he can he can generate 682 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: b g he generates points. He knows, he knows what 683 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: he's doing. He's great at it. And I knew that 684 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: coach relied on him for that side of the ball. 685 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: I've just been juco and I love watching film and 686 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: I love watching like, you know, defensive eaves and all 687 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: kinds of ships that pertained to that side of the ball. 688 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: So I just said, you know what, I'm gonna just 689 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn their system and I'm gonna put it 690 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: on steroids on the defensive side. So that's kind of 691 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: what we did. You know, we just I really worked 692 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: with really helping us get better defensively, and paint was 693 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: the offensive guy. And Coach Webber had a million plays 694 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: in his head, you know, Coach Webber being time outs 695 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: and say we ran this for Big Dog, and I'm like, 696 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: what you know, and he just like say that it 697 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: was it was at Minnesota and you know, his sophomore 698 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: he ran this on the road and he drawed up 699 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: in their kids are in the like on the puddle, 700 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,479 Speaker 1: like what are you talking about? Then they just drawed 701 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: up and then we hit a game winner and they're 702 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: just like, oh, ship like. And that's kind of how 703 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: you know you have an affinity for a guy who 704 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: can draw shu up and actually run it. And that's 705 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: that's People can draw shut up, and they can and 706 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: they can put it out there for a player, but 707 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: when a guy can actually draw it up and a 708 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: player can see it and and and relate to it 709 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: and be like, Okay, I see what you're saying, coach, 710 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: and then go do it, because Doug, you know you've 711 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: been in huddles where coaches drawing some ship up and 712 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: you're a good point guard, and you know that guy 713 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: who's supposed to get it ain't feeling that play. You 714 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: just do something different and and make sure they get 715 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: the ball at their sweet spot and they just then 716 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: they do it, you know what I mean? Yeah, listen, 717 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: I I've said this before in this podcast. Like I 718 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: played Freddie Sutton. I don't remember him ever drawing anything up. Now. 719 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: What he would do is Sean would draw it up 720 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: and he would he would point out, you know why, 721 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: and where it's gonna be open like that. That was 722 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: kind of his his gift was adding to things or 723 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: I would draw it up, but I would Sean and 724 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: I would discuss, you know, and uh McLeod wouldn't draw 725 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: things up for him. McCaffrey would draw it up. But yes, 726 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: I've been in in professional huddles where guys are drawing 727 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: stuff up and you look around, You look the guy 728 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: in the eye, and you're like, he ain't feeling at all, 729 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: so I can He's like, hell, no, I ain't doing that. 730 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: Just give me the ball and get out of the way, right, okay. 731 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: So why did it hit at at Missouri State? Because 732 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: because this was at the peak of the valley most recently, right, Like, 733 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: this is at a time where Craton had it rolling. 734 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: Um Tulsa was a little bit down then if I 735 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: remember correctly, But everybody else seemed to be up at 736 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: the top of the valley. But you guys, all of 737 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: a sudden became a dominant team for a good five 738 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: year stretch there, through three different head coaches, you being 739 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: one of them. Why did initially hit with with with 740 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: with Bruce Well, initially hit because we had we had 741 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: it's it's it's the it's the deal what he does. 742 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: We had three guys that he Simon he first got there, 743 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: they started as freshman and then by the time they 744 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: were seniors, junior and seniors is Joe their junior year 745 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: And we added a guy who and his guy Rolling 746 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: Robinson Virginia Tech, got in trouble comes our place. He's 747 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: a he's a suit, he's above, he was above the valley, 748 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: and he gave us something that we didn't have. We 749 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: had all the i Q and the scoring and some 750 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: elite athletes. As far as our play, we didn't have 751 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: a dude that could just sit on the rim and 752 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: you know who was just an animal. And he gave 753 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,800 Speaker 1: us that side of it, emotion, offense with just a 754 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: guy with a beast inside, and and it hit. And 755 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: then we signed the younger guys that we didn't know 756 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: would be all time great players two and so we 757 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: went through a stretch where in each class, like there 758 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: there's there's there's two of them that just went into 759 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: the Missouri Valley Hall of Fame back to back years. 760 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: We don't have two more going to the Valley Hall 761 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: of Fame as well. But we didn't know, but we 762 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: just trusted the system, trusted that we could teach it 763 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: the right way, and trusted that our kid would pass 764 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: our kids would passed the baton on and on and 765 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: and that's what happened. And when and you you, we 766 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: would like you and saying hey, we knew you know, 767 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: one of our sisters here Brad Corn as a scene 768 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: and they went sixteen, They went seventeen and one in 769 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: the league. That was Matt Painters year one year is 770 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: head coach there. You know, we when we left to 771 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: go to Illinois, I was like, all right, I don't 772 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: know how good they're gonna be. Well, a guy who 773 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: was a freshman off the bench for us an average nine, 774 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: was player of the year in the league for the 775 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: next two years. And we had no idea that was 776 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,760 Speaker 1: going to happen, you know. And and that's but it's coaching, 777 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 1: and it's the beauty of it. It's when you work 778 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: at it and and you get guys better and to 779 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: develop them than that takes over. Who is that Darren Brooks? Oh? 780 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: I for god? Yeah? Man? Okay? So um so Paint's 781 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: there a year he leaves. How did you get the job? 782 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: I got the job? You know. Basically we're in um 783 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: we're in Atlanta about to play Duke in the Sweet 784 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: sixteen and Paint calls and says to ask coach what 785 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: he should do. And me and coach were walking in 786 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: downtown Atlanta. It's just coach, she likes to walk in 787 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: and pick your brain and stuff day before the game, 788 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: and he goes, um, you know, they asked Paint to 789 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: come be in coaching waiting and produce give coach kde 790 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: Is send off her paints for the head coach the 791 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: next year. And he asked me what I what? I 792 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: want to go back to Southern No moy And I said, 793 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: what do you mean? Why would I leave here to 794 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: go be paints assistant? That's stupid. He goes, note dummy 795 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: as the head coach, and I'm like, oh, hey, yeah, 796 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: you know I'm thirty one. You know I'm young, and yeah, 797 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: I'd like to have the opportunity. And that's kind of 798 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: how I went down. So um, how we liked. How 799 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: do you handle going back to a place you know 800 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: better than Like, there's places you can go interview that 801 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: you knew, but to have coach there, have played there 802 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: and have lived there outside of the program, you know, 803 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: when your rent initially, so like you have kind of 804 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: all different perspectives of it. How do you remember how 805 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: you approached the interview or was it was it just 806 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: like you're good? It was. I approached it like I 807 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: know everything about that place. I can sell that plate, 808 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: I have the I have people in place in the community, 809 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: in the in the university, UM in the region that 810 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: are willing to help with this thing and the help 811 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: continue to keep it at a high level. And that 812 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: was really all it took. Uh. You know, Paul Waltri 813 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: was eight year there at the time. UM, he just 814 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: he thought about it. And because I didn't even go 815 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: back down there an interview, we just we were talking 816 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: over the phone, and you know, several nights in a 817 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: row in a row, and he just said and he 818 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: called me one day and said, you know what, just 819 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: come back. You know, I'm all for you. I was like, 820 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. And the funny story is 821 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: my wife goes, I go, I you know, I tell her, 822 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm I said, we're going back to carbondalege And again 823 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: like me, She's like, I don't want to leave it. Annoys, 824 00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: why would you go back and be Matt Painter's assistant 825 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: when you're in the big ten. I go, no, dummy, 826 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to be the head coach, like coach webber 827 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: Ti to me, same true story, same thing, and you 828 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: just you sit there and just die laughing, you know 829 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: about you know how it went down. Okay, so you 830 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: you get there and you inherit. Darren Brooks was a senior, 831 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: had Tatum was a sophomore, I think right, Tatum. Tatum 832 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: was a sophomore. And the funny thing about Tatum is 833 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: so I called his parents and say, hey, I'm going 834 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: to coach webber Um to Illinois, and Tatum is like out, 835 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm out. You know, you know how this stuff goes out. 836 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: And I got to convince him, like no, just stay, 837 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: just you know, just stay and see see how it 838 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: works out. See, you know, you and his mom obviously 839 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: she you know, she's sharp, she does. They're gonna be 840 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: you know who's gonna be af African American assistant. If 841 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: you're you're going you're the only guy. We we we 842 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: trust you. We said our son there because you and 843 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: all this stuff. And and I'm like convincing him and 844 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: them to send him to play you know, paint Um 845 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: and Randall Falker too. So Randall Falker's in that same 846 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: class coming in and you know, so what's crazy is 847 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: if I you know, and you know this happened, I 848 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: could have snaked them and sooner the prep school and 849 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: then try to get him an old moy you know 850 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: a year later, but you know, telling him to do 851 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: what's right. That's where you committed to. Now I get 852 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: a coach and for three years on a comeback which 853 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: I had no idea. What happened so fast? Yeah? So 854 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,359 Speaker 1: then you then you take over and you guys were 855 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 1: immediately successful, right, I mean the first year, uh, I 856 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: think he has won the league. The first year we 857 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,919 Speaker 1: won the league. Yeah, and we ended up playing you're 858 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: your old head coach in the second round in Oklahoma 859 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: City the year after the final four, and they returned 860 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 1: like four starters from the lost the national championship game, 861 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: and then they then they lost to what Arizona the 862 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: next game Arizona, and then Arizona lost Illinois, right, and 863 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: you you had left that and that team goes on 864 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,240 Speaker 1: to play for the national championship. All right? How different 865 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: is it when you're a head coach? Like when do 866 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: you do you remember what it was like to first? Like, 867 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: oh wait, I got the big chair. But this is 868 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,320 Speaker 1: how different is it for you? Well? It was different 869 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: because I remember it was an exhibition game and in 870 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: a long time, it's just there. Rodney Watson was the 871 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: head coach of Southern University. Southern had a D two powerhouse. Now. 872 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: He was an assistant when I played, and he was 873 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: an assistant with me for coach Webber and met him 874 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: and Matt Painter, and then he was my top assistant 875 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: when I was there as my first four years as 876 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: head coach. And then he goes on to be a 877 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,840 Speaker 1: head coach himself, and and I'm just sitting there, you know, 878 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: has an assistant coach dog. You know, you complain about 879 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: ship on the bench and we should be making these judge, 880 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 1: we should be doing this. And I was sitting down 881 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: the first five minutes and I remember the time and saying, hey, 882 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: you might want to want to stand up. It's your team. 883 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: I had no idea. I was still like I was 884 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: an assistant to like, you know, talking to you what 885 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: those guys, like hell are we doing that? We didn't 886 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: make a justice. We gotta make some subs. And he 887 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: was like, you might want to stand up like your team. Um, okay, 888 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: so honest question, why did it? How did it fall apart? 889 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: Like you guys had it rolling and and and the 890 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: first year, the first year that you guys you know, 891 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: weren't dominant was Falker senior year. Uh, Brian Mullins, who's 892 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: like you know, all time, like legend at Southern Illinois, 893 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: right like, he was a junior. So you had upper classmen. 894 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: What what what were the cracks in the foundation of 895 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: what you were doing? Well, it was injuries because we're 896 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: on the bubble that year Bryan Mollins missed the stress 897 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: fracture cost us to n C double A tournament. That 898 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: year Randall Falker, we we still we went to the 899 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: second round of n I t We beat Oklahoma State 900 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: in the first round and then we lost at Arizona 901 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: State to James Harden, which was you know so. And 902 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: so the next year we're carrying Brian mouls. We have 903 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: the best recruiting class in school history coming in with 904 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: Brian Mullens. Um, we get a transfer from Iowa who's 905 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,399 Speaker 1: who losing we think is going to be a really 906 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: good player for us. And if Brian Mullins goes down again, 907 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: mrs the rest of the year. So we have all 908 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: these new guys in the program and the foundation of 909 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: our program um is out and dad started as a decline. 910 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: Because the guy who was selling our system, our history, 911 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: our program was teaching these guys the right way. It 912 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: became the other way, where the young guys were the minority, 913 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,320 Speaker 1: where the majority and the older guys were the minority. 914 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: And we took kids and I've been wronest dog. We 915 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 1: we we got ranked kids for the first time in 916 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: school history. But those one kids I could coach and 917 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,359 Speaker 1: and and as a young coach, learning who you can 918 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: coach is who your kid. That's what we don't think 919 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,879 Speaker 1: about because we had this thing built with these type 920 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 1: of kids, and I let them go to other schools 921 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: in our league and become great players. And people would say, man, 922 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: I said, Carbondale kid, why don't we take him? And 923 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: we had the opportunity, and I didn't take that Carbondale 924 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,800 Speaker 1: kid because I was to get into a different household. 925 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: Now I can get into a different realm. And that's 926 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: that's that's that's the whole story to like, that's what 927 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: happened to Oklahoma State, Right, they go to a Final four. 928 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, they had a class 929 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 1: like eight kids, and I think one of them end 930 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: up like on campus. Ever, Georgia Tech, they that same 931 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: year they went to they went to the national championship 932 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: game after beating Oklhoma Staint in the semifinals, and they 933 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: have ridiculous recruiting class that that ultimately led uh to 934 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: him losing his job. I mean even even Villanova if 935 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: you remember the first time they went to the final 936 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: four when they played four guards, they had the best 937 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 1: recruiting class in the country and he won thirteen games. 938 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: This is like eight years ago or seven years ago 939 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 1: with with the highest howted recruits he'd ever had. So 940 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: I guess here's the question. How do you you have 941 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: this power and all of a sudden, you guys are rolling, 942 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: You're the best team in the Missouri Valley. You can 943 00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: how do you how do you determine who's a kid 944 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 1: you can coach when you always wanted to get the 945 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,240 Speaker 1: most talented kids in the gym, Like there's a talented character. 946 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: You you do need talent, but you also need character. 947 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: If you could go if you could teach somebody how 948 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: you evaluate correctly for your program, what would it be? Well, 949 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is that. And and you know, 950 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: if you listen to old coaches, they'll tell you. They'll 951 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: say stuff like this, talent sometimes tain't you. Talent. Talent 952 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: will taint you into thinking you can change people. And 953 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,399 Speaker 1: and and you know it got to us. He was like, man, 954 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 1: that's it. That's so good. Every here's always kids and say, hey, man, 955 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: you know that's a headband team kid. You know, back 956 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: in the back in the day, that's a headman. And 957 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, I got a couple of 958 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: headband kids in my team. And I'm just like, oh, ship, like, 959 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: this is not who we are. This is not And 960 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,759 Speaker 1: the and the guy who told me this and then 961 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: and this, and I love him to they tell him 962 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,840 Speaker 1: Goes Chris, And he said it to me to my 963 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: face at Nike, Goes, I know, I know that kid 964 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: is good, but he can't play for you. And I 965 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: just said, and I said, Dave, I think I can 966 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: change and I think I can, you know, I think 967 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: I think I Man, I think I could really change 968 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 1: that kid. And I'm not gonna mention names or anything 969 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: like that, but Dave was right. And he tells me 970 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: all that every time I see him being coach. Went 971 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 1: to to um watching practice. He's with the Spurs, now 972 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: he's you know, we went to watch the you know, 973 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: Spurs a couple of first couple of days of practice, 974 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: and Dave, every time you see he goes, Chris, I 975 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,360 Speaker 1: wish I wasn't right. I wish I wasn't right on 976 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 1: those kids that you and and and and and it's 977 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: the it's the it's a learning process. But the good 978 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: thing about it is that you go through that and 979 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,840 Speaker 1: you learn it, and you learn, um, what type of 980 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: kid you can be successful coaching, ranked or unranked? And 981 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: you learned, you learned that sometimes kids, you know, and 982 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: it's so quote good people are found, not changed. You 983 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: just gotta look harder for the type of kids you want. 984 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: Uh oh okay. So there was three bads, three bad 985 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 1: years in a row, right, thirteen and eighteen, fifteen and 986 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: fifteen and thirteen nineteen. Um, what do you remember about 987 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: losing your job? I remember it was one of those 988 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: things where I got a big family and Evansville's you know, 989 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: three outs from St. Louis, and it was being rumors 990 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: and you know, my family just came and supported like 991 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,360 Speaker 1: big time. Some of my former teammates were all that. 992 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 1: You know, it was one of those deals where we 993 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: lost in and uh, I go to my room and 994 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: I get the call hey and letting you go, and 995 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 1: I just remember my family just hugging. You know. It's 996 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: one of those deals. Was like surreals. I never I 997 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 1: never was not good in anything. You know. I've come 998 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: from these unbelievable teams in grade school, middle school, were 999 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: never lost games. So I got to high school and 1000 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,320 Speaker 1: all this stuff, play with these guys and n b A, 1001 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,919 Speaker 1: and you know, so much attention to our teams because 1002 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 1: of the people that were on and were getting recruited 1003 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: at such a high level. And now all of a sudden, um, 1004 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: thirty something years old and I and I failed, you know, 1005 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,839 Speaker 1: it was that was the hardest thing because I had 1006 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:06,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of opportunities to leave Sellinois. But the whole 1007 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: thing is that I wanted to show I wanted to 1008 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: make it a destination job. And I know that's kind 1009 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 1: of weird to say that, but when you went at 1010 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: the time, you look at Butler Zaga, you look at 1011 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: you look at Xavier. Those are jobs and you're like, 1012 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 1: damn people, you know, those are jobs you can you 1013 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,320 Speaker 1: can retire from. And but the one thing that I 1014 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,480 Speaker 1: did take into context, none of those have football, and 1015 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: when you win at a high level, they could continuously 1016 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 1: fund your program and make your basketball program that much 1017 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 1: more stronger. But those runs we were going, we went 1018 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,360 Speaker 1: six years in a row in the NT Double A 1019 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: tournament and most no, we only was the conference tournament 1020 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: one year out of that six years. So we were 1021 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: getting at largest as a mid major. Uh, those six 1022 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 1: straight years, those five five out of those six years. 1023 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,919 Speaker 1: And what's funny is by the time you got finally 1024 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: got the arena done right, like the arena finally gets 1025 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: gets redone, by then it was almost it was almost 1026 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: too late, you know, and you were because we were 1027 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,279 Speaker 1: the groom. Work is good. Um, okay, you you talked 1028 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: a little bit about cary Um, your late son, and 1029 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: like for anybody who knows you, coaches always talk about family. 1030 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: But you and Erica, you're like an amazing kind of team. 1031 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: How did you? How do you manage that a son? Who? Um? 1032 00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: I remember when I we I first started covering you, 1033 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: when you had a role in Southern how you're you know, 1034 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 1: you're bouncing back between going to St. Louis where he 1035 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,359 Speaker 1: was in the hospital at times and coaching, coaching your 1036 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: team and then you have your you have your own 1037 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: team to worry about in a town where you know, 1038 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: it's a college town, you can get into some stuff. 1039 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: And then you have the rest of you. You have 1040 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,880 Speaker 1: your other kids. If you're your three other children, how 1041 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: did you guys manage that and manage your coaching career 1042 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,760 Speaker 1: through the ups and the downs. I have no idea. 1043 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all her spotting. Heavens for her, you know, 1044 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: she just and she'd never complain. And I'm just you know, 1045 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,839 Speaker 1: we think about it now because we just got one, 1046 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 1: the little one. Are you thirteen, She's only one, she's 1047 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 1: only one home, and we just think about how in 1048 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: the world did we we But we took him everywhere. 1049 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: Everywhere I went, they went. We never, you know, whenever 1050 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 1: we had a chance. The last time we went to 1051 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,800 Speaker 1: why you you were over there and we played in 1052 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: the tournament. You know, I just they just go everywhere 1053 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,920 Speaker 1: with me. We never made it like I have a 1054 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: disabled son and we're ashamed of it and we can't 1055 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,320 Speaker 1: take him anywhere. That kid put his foot in feeting 1056 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: more tropical water than than the than most humans. Because 1057 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,880 Speaker 1: he went on vacation every year with him. We picked somewhere, 1058 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,400 Speaker 1: you know where. It was a new experience for it 1059 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: our kids, but for him too. And uh, this game 1060 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,880 Speaker 1: is unforgiving. I've meant so many things with my children 1061 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,320 Speaker 1: because of recruiting, because of games. Um, and you know, 1062 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,239 Speaker 1: your coach's son. You know that there's things that you 1063 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: were growing up. You're like, ship, I wish my dad 1064 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: could see we get thirty, you know what I mean, 1065 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,239 Speaker 1: just like but you know you don't understand it. To 1066 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 1: you you're grown up, and you realize it's more reasons, 1067 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, and and and and you know for our kids, 1068 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: they didn't understand now then, but they do now. With 1069 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,840 Speaker 1: my son, I was I missed his first seven birthdays 1070 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,840 Speaker 1: c my oldest son, because it was in the April 1071 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,600 Speaker 1: recruiting period. We had to be out. It was so 1072 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: important that you'd be out on the sidelines, you know. 1073 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,759 Speaker 1: And then they changed the rule and they changed the 1074 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: date to some of the recruited in April, and then 1075 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,720 Speaker 1: I could be at my son's birthday parties. He's already 1076 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,239 Speaker 1: eight years old, you know, and the most important ones 1077 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: that already passed. No, I mean, listen, my my son 1078 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: was born the first day of the n c A tournament. 1079 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: I actually worked at ESPN that night, and I never forget, 1080 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,239 Speaker 1: like I was really upset at at CBS because and 1081 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,839 Speaker 1: it was a little bits out of their control because 1082 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,080 Speaker 1: Turner makes some of the calls as well. But this 1083 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: is going back. I'm gonna say four or five years ago. 1084 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,479 Speaker 1: There was a San Diego regional and I was living 1085 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: twenty at the time, and I was like, hey, listen, 1086 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,480 Speaker 1: I don't care who's planning, Like, I know, Duke's not 1087 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,280 Speaker 1: gonna be out there, so that's gonna be jim Ants 1088 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,600 Speaker 1: and Bill Raffree like, let me just go to San Diego. 1089 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,279 Speaker 1: That way I can be home on his birthday. And 1090 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 1: they're like, got it, got it, got And they put 1091 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,640 Speaker 1: Oklahoma State in that regional. They're like, yeah, we don't 1092 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,840 Speaker 1: really feel you comfortable with you, you know, carry covering 1093 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,320 Speaker 1: Oklahoma State. I was like, well, I didn't play for 1094 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,480 Speaker 1: Travis Ford, and so they put me in a regional 1095 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: in spoke Campe, Washington where I'm covering Oklahoma. And I 1096 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 1: was like, you do understand it's the same thing. They're like, 1097 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,759 Speaker 1: what do you mean. I was like, well, the same 1098 00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,240 Speaker 1: small portion of people who think that I'm pro Oklahoma 1099 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,439 Speaker 1: State are gonna think I'm anti Oklahoma. Neither, of course 1100 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,800 Speaker 1: is true. Like long coover played for my dad at 1101 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,080 Speaker 1: Kansas State, you know, on the freshman team back in 1102 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: the day. But that that's anyway. So I my brother 1103 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,919 Speaker 1: is a March birthday, March three. My dad he would 1104 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:42,719 Speaker 1: that was back old school. He'd be recruiting then, like 1105 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: he never. It wasn't until maybe height until he lost 1106 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: his job in in the mid eighties. And even then 1107 00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: he wasn't usually home. So it's it's okay. So you 1108 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: do have its tendency to talk like you're some old man. 1109 00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,000 Speaker 1: I know you've been this business since, you know, since 1110 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 1: you you left, but you're only forty six, Like you're not. 1111 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: You have fifty You've been ahead coach, you coach the 1112 00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,879 Speaker 1: n c A tournament. Now you've led to like help 1113 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: Bruce Bruce's resurrection. You guys got a chance to win 1114 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,759 Speaker 1: the Big twelve, be the team that uh you know, 1115 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,240 Speaker 1: dethrones Kansas. You went to the lead eight last year. Okay, 1116 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,360 Speaker 1: So you I mean, you're you're sitting there, You're like, 1117 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,920 Speaker 1: all right, I'm I could do you want to go 1118 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,440 Speaker 1: do it again? Like what's what is I mean obviously, 1119 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you want to be a head coach again, 1120 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: but what is the what's the realistic plan in the 1121 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,880 Speaker 1: near future. Well, I mean obviously, you know, I mean 1122 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,080 Speaker 1: I love coaching. You look, you love coaching, and you 1123 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,279 Speaker 1: do this to be a head coach. Everybody who gets 1124 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,719 Speaker 1: in and says, I just want to, you know, do 1125 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,880 Speaker 1: their lion to. You always want to have your own program. 1126 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,799 Speaker 1: You always want to have your own way of doing things. 1127 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 1: And and absolutely I love and and think about it, 1128 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,320 Speaker 1: and so so Coach wherever. We just always like he 1129 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,839 Speaker 1: would joke with me and Matt, but he was telling 1130 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,600 Speaker 1: the truth. He would say stuff like you two, you 1131 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 1: two guys, you know you're within two years you both 1132 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: left me and you're guys are head coaches. I had 1133 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,800 Speaker 1: to spend eighteen years with Coach Katie because I was 1134 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,800 Speaker 1: turned down for every job in the bid West. And 1135 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,759 Speaker 1: and you know, because of our times have changed, people 1136 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,880 Speaker 1: taking chances on younger guys with with with jobs. It 1137 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,240 Speaker 1: changed that quick. And me and Paint we're gone with 1138 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: him from coach within two years of us being together, 1139 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, and getting going at Southern Illinois and then 1140 00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,000 Speaker 1: becoming a part of Illinois and then now him going 1141 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,240 Speaker 1: to Purdue and then me going back to Southern ILLINOI 1142 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 1: And um, you know that's that's the beauty of being 1143 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: in the family too. And you know that the coach said, 1144 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: I remember we were in shooting around n C double 1145 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,440 Speaker 1: A turning coach Sutton comes over to me and he goes, 1146 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: young man, you know you're part of my family, don't you? 1147 00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,520 Speaker 1: And and I'm like absolutely, And I just just that 1148 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 1: little bit of stuff that makes your day, man, because 1149 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,720 Speaker 1: you that's a that's a living legend. And for him 1150 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,000 Speaker 1: to recognize and know that you were from Bruce and 1151 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,120 Speaker 1: Bruce is from coach Katie, Coach Katie from him, Like 1152 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: that stuff is like if you're a basketball guy, ship 1153 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,640 Speaker 1: like that drives you, it makes you. It didn't get 1154 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:04,920 Speaker 1: you excited. What would it mean for Bruce to be 1155 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: the team that that takes down Kansas, especially considering, like, 1156 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,240 Speaker 1: let's just be real, he followed Bill at Illinois. That's 1157 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 1: a tough guy to follow. He's been, you know, two 1158 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 1: hours down the road at k State while they've been 1159 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,240 Speaker 1: on this unbelievable run. Like what would it mean to 1160 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 1: Bruce to your your guy's program to be It's one 1161 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 1: thing to see somebody else win the league, but to 1162 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,520 Speaker 1: be for for k State to do it, what would 1163 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,400 Speaker 1: it mean? Well, it'll mean a lot and and and 1164 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,680 Speaker 1: you know what's so funny, Doug. The whole case State 1165 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: Kansas stuff is so similar to Indienda for Due. You know, 1166 00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,560 Speaker 1: you have this legendary behemoth of a coach in Bob Knight, 1167 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,720 Speaker 1: and he had another guy who was a big time 1168 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: coach and coach Katie. You know, now it's the same thing. 1169 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 1: You got this legendary guy Kansas. You got a really 1170 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 1: good coach at Kansas State, and Doug, we tied him 1171 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen. And it's not even on the books. 1172 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: Nobody even knows that, you know what I mean, I 1173 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: did serious if we tie and and that's the and 1174 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,680 Speaker 1: and the thing is, if somebody ties them again, it'll 1175 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: be just like they want it again, So it will 1176 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,120 Speaker 1: never be known. In two years, it'll be to continue 1177 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: their fifteen seventeen in a row. You have to beat them, 1178 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,920 Speaker 1: and and it'll mean so it'll it'll be a great thing. 1179 00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,600 Speaker 1: It'll be great for college basketball, be great for our league, 1180 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,000 Speaker 1: be great for our fan base, you know, and and 1181 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,200 Speaker 1: and ultimately, you know, Bilke and coach and and he 1182 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,560 Speaker 1: gets good players and he makes great timely you know, 1183 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,720 Speaker 1: decisions within games, and he pushes the right buttons, and 1184 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: so for for it to happen for Kansas State in 1185 00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,240 Speaker 1: the same state would be a huge deal. Well. Look, 1186 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: as you know, I consider you not only a friend, 1187 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:48,600 Speaker 1: but but part of that. We're all part of that 1188 00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,440 Speaker 1: kind of same uh Eddie Sutton basketball family. I cannot 1189 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,720 Speaker 1: tell you how happy I am for your guys success 1190 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,520 Speaker 1: because I know you guys do it the right way 1191 00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: and it's not it's ask any coach. It ain't easy 1192 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,280 Speaker 1: to do with the right a um. And whether it's 1193 01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: a Kansas State or Southern or when you're Illinois whatever. 1194 01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you catching up with us and telling 1195 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,960 Speaker 1: us kind of about your journey. Appreciate it. Man. You 1196 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:12,840 Speaker 1: know my wife, let me tell you alo, she loves you. 1197 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if people know used to 1198 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: shoot half course shots with us, so a little NOOI 1199 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,320 Speaker 1: you know, pre game and just have fun. That's how 1200 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: we used to, you know, to start start the day. 1201 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,440 Speaker 1: And as far as getting ready to play and you 1202 01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: know up remember remember the remember the pajama game. Remember 1203 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,120 Speaker 1: PAMA game against Hawaii midnight, midnight start time, ESPN two. 1204 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Hey man, thanks so much of your time. I know 1205 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,920 Speaker 1: you're busy. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thank you. All Right, 1206 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: that's it for this week's edition of All Ball. My 1207 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,560 Speaker 1: special thanks go out to Chris Lowry for all his time. 1208 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,960 Speaker 1: Appreciate all your comments, all your questions. Remember the list 1209 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:50,840 Speaker 1: of my radio show three to six Eastern twelve to 1210 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,440 Speaker 1: three Pacific, called the Doug Gottlieb Show. In the meantime, download, 1211 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 1: subscribe right, share it with a friend. I'm Doug gottlie 1212 01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:58,000 Speaker 1: This is All Ball.