WEBVTT - Using Synthetic Biology to Redesign Lives

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. So you

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<v Speaker 1>might recall an article in Barns last year. Tim. It

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<v Speaker 1>was about synthetic biology possibly being the next big thing

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<v Speaker 1>and proponents of it saying, quote, the totally addressable market

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<v Speaker 1>being over a trillion dollars. That's at least recording UH

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<v Speaker 1>to the reports. What does it look like? When do

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<v Speaker 1>we get there? And how do we get there? Amy

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<v Speaker 1>Webb is the CEO of the Future Today Institute. She's

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<v Speaker 1>also a Professor of Strategic Foresight at the n y

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<v Speaker 1>U Stern School of Business. She's the co author of

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<v Speaker 1>the new book with Andrew Hessel, The Genesis Machine, Our

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<v Speaker 1>Quest to Rewrite Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology.

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<v Speaker 1>She joins us on the phone from New York. Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you? I'm great, Tim, Thanks for having me

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<v Speaker 1>in case anyone missed that Baron's article from last year.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start by defining synthetic biology. What is it? You

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<v Speaker 1>got it? So? Synthetic biology is an emerging area of

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<v Speaker 1>science that effectively involves redesigning organism terms to have useful

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<v Speaker 1>purposes by engineering them to have new abilities UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>it can range from you know, messenger RNA up to

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<v Speaker 1>new types of organisms and even resurrecting a Holy mammoth.

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<v Speaker 1>Believe it or not, it is pretty remarkable. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you think about things that could be transformative right in

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<v Speaker 1>our world, UM, this is one of those things. Where

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<v Speaker 1>are we though, in this process where it really starts

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<v Speaker 1>to impact our world? I did come across and reading

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<v Speaker 1>in tim and I am reading in and preparing for

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<v Speaker 1>this segment about you know, investors dollar, investor dollars and

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<v Speaker 1>investor attention increasingly looking at this space. That's right. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>in the last decade, investors have put around twenty six

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars by my account into synthetic biblegy startups UM.

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<v Speaker 1>And depending on who you talk to, the current products

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<v Speaker 1>that are that are in UM being created right now,

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<v Speaker 1>they can generate anywhere from a trillion to around four

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars over the next decade. I say the however,

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<v Speaker 1>noting that we are on a very long trajectory with

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<v Speaker 1>this technology. So I want to drive home the point

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<v Speaker 1>that this is the beginning. UM. We are nowhere near

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<v Speaker 1>even the middle of all of this. So right now,

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<v Speaker 1>investment is really going into the infrastructure and the company

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<v Speaker 1>is building out the processes and the tools. It's way

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<v Speaker 1>too early to start investing in products, right so we've

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<v Speaker 1>got to think what in maybe a ten year, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>year timeframe, perhaps even longer. But I do want to

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<v Speaker 1>do you like in it? Is it akin to some

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<v Speaker 1>other transformative innovation or technology that we've seen over the

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<v Speaker 1>last hundred years. Absolutely, So I think that the best

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<v Speaker 1>way to think about this, believe it or not, is

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<v Speaker 1>the early days of the telephone um and and when

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<v Speaker 1>Alexander Bell went on stage upstate New York at Chickering

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<v Speaker 1>Hall and and debuted this new crazy device he had

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<v Speaker 1>made in a wooden box um, nobody believed him. It

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<v Speaker 1>was so shocking to people to hear this voice come

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<v Speaker 1>out of the other other end that they flooded the

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<v Speaker 1>stage and demanded to see behind the curtain, assuming that

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<v Speaker 1>somebody was back there. When they realized it was new technology,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it was absolutely earth chattering. But it still

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<v Speaker 1>took a little bit of time to get from that

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<v Speaker 1>demonstration on the stage to transatlantic you know wires. That

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<v Speaker 1>being said, within the first couple of decades, Uh, there

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<v Speaker 1>were telephones, there were lines, you know, drawn, there were

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<v Speaker 1>the beginnings of satellites being thought about, and all of

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<v Speaker 1>these years later, there's actually no way to put a

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<v Speaker 1>true valuation on what that telephone spawn, which includes, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>satellite technology, internet technology, TikTok, you know, the ability for

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<v Speaker 1>us to do what we're doing right now. Um often

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<v Speaker 1>goals goals. Being a couple of other economists, UH said

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<v Speaker 1>that the only real way to measure the impact of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this is to do it in the reverse,

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<v Speaker 1>to start taking things away. I think we're gonna look

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<v Speaker 1>back at this moment in time and the chickering hall

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<v Speaker 1>stage of synthetic biology, and in the mid future, it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be hard to figure out what the actual

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<v Speaker 1>valuation is. Similarly, and I think it's going to happen

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<v Speaker 1>at a pretty obviously a much faster clip. So the

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<v Speaker 1>add of the telephone, Yeah, that's I mean, that's fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>considering you know, dial up wasn't even that long ago,

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<v Speaker 1>and the greater history of of the telephone, and look

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<v Speaker 1>what we're doing today through uh through the internet. Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering about investor exposure here, and we only have

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<v Speaker 1>about thirty seconds left but what does our audience need

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<v Speaker 1>to know about where they can actually get in on

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<v Speaker 1>the like get in early when it comes to synthetic biology.

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<v Speaker 1>We have thirty seconds. Then we're going to come back

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<v Speaker 1>with you for more time. You got it. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some e t s out there, Black Rock or Capital Management,

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<v Speaker 1>some others Franklin Templeton. Their e t s are are

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<v Speaker 1>they exist, They're performing better than expected, although I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>specifically giving investment advice. Um, you know, and there are

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<v Speaker 1>I p O deals happening all the time. The median

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<v Speaker 1>UH size of synthetic biology i p o s is rising. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>It's valued about twice as much year over year. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a matter of just poking around and

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<v Speaker 1>seeing what looks safe and comfortable, and peop will poke

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<v Speaker 1>a little further in terms of, you know, the catch

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<v Speaker 1>words or the developments or the established companies that that

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<v Speaker 1>need to be on investors radar when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>the development of the synthetic biological space. We're gonna come

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<v Speaker 1>back with Amy Webb, CEO of the Future Today Institute

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<v Speaker 1>and continue talking about her book The Genesis Machine. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to get back to our guests. Still speaking with

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<v Speaker 1>Amy Webb. She's the CEO of the Future Today Institute,

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<v Speaker 1>Professor of Strategic Foresight at the n y U Stern

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<v Speaker 1>School of Business. Her new book The Genesis Machine, Our

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<v Speaker 1>Quest to Reright Life in the Age of Synthetic Biology. So, Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>we've been talking with you about you know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a developing thing. This is um got a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a long trek before it really really plays out.

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<v Speaker 1>And having said that, there are some E t F

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<v Speaker 1>and some investment vehicles for folks to play it. But

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<v Speaker 1>I do think about I always think about when this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of trend is happening, what are the established companies

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<v Speaker 1>and also the catchwords, you know, for the development of

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<v Speaker 1>synthetic biology that you think our audience should be aware of. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So again, I think that the thing to bear in

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<v Speaker 1>mind is not just to focus on the products or

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<v Speaker 1>the end outputs of all of this, but also the

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<v Speaker 1>companies that are building all the infrastructure, and there are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of them. Um Twist Biosciences is an incredible company,

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<v Speaker 1>and I should note also I don't have any investments

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<v Speaker 1>in any of these companies. Um with is is led

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<v Speaker 1>by an incredibly smart team of people. They're building you know,

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the their the picks and shovels right there,

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<v Speaker 1>building the infrastructure that everybody else relies on can go.

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<v Speaker 1>Bioworks is another really smart company. UMOD talks about a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And she's right, you know, it's they're they're very smart.

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<v Speaker 1>They're also very mission and purpose driven, which I think

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<v Speaker 1>is gonna help them out the further out into time

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<v Speaker 1>this goes. They're really thinking through next order impacts, which

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<v Speaker 1>I think is super smart. UM. But you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>can also take a look at outside of the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>companies like b g I. Uh it costs about fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars to create to to sequence a high quality

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<v Speaker 1>draft of a human genome. UM that price dropped to

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<v Speaker 1>twenties around four thousand dollars, and now b g I

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<v Speaker 1>can sequence a genome for for about a hundred bucks.

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<v Speaker 1>That's less than the price of a pair of Nike

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<v Speaker 1>year Jordan's UM. So, so there there are a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of different companies in the space. Hey, Amy, I'm wondering

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<v Speaker 1>about helping us understand what you know, if we think

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<v Speaker 1>about it from like we talked about earlier, the evolution

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<v Speaker 1>of the telephone too, you know, TikTok and what we

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<v Speaker 1>do on our phones. Now, what happens during our lifetimes?

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<v Speaker 1>What's it realistic way for us to think about what

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<v Speaker 1>type of developments we see in the synthetic biology space

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<v Speaker 1>in the next years. Well, I can, I can bring

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<v Speaker 1>us even closer to the present day. Before the break

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<v Speaker 1>you you were talking about the Super Bowl. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Americans later on one point four or five billion chicken wings,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a lot of chicken wings. It creates a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of problems for their environment, and it's it's not

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<v Speaker 1>so great for the chickens. There's a company called to

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<v Speaker 1>Eat just Um and they are already producing cellular based chicken.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is not stuff made out of soy. This

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<v Speaker 1>is chicken meat that started out as a stem cell

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<v Speaker 1>I was put into a bioreactor with amino acids and

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<v Speaker 1>all the other goodies that that that meat required to

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<v Speaker 1>grow as it would inside of an egg. Um and

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<v Speaker 1>and the output of that is edible meat that never

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<v Speaker 1>had hormones or antibiotics or any of the other stuff

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<v Speaker 1>that you might find on a commercial farm. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>tried I have tried it. How is it? And it's great?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh tastes like chicken. Chicken tastes like chicken. Well, chicken

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really taste like chicken though, you know, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>like it's modernay chickens, the overprocessed yeah, and those wings

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<v Speaker 1>right taste like buffalo sauce, right, Yeah, but it isn't.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is interesting you talk about lab grown food,

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<v Speaker 1>like we keep talking about plant based being a solution,

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<v Speaker 1>but most people would argue that it isn't necessarily a

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<v Speaker 1>solution when it comes to the impact on climate change

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<v Speaker 1>and just the ability to feed the world and where

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've we've done some segments on our air

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<v Speaker 1>that looks at kind of lab grown food and I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was it was it in pursuits? Was there

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<v Speaker 1>something there was Bloomberg Business Week in pursuits about lab

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<v Speaker 1>grown feet food. I mean, is that what you're thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's where this potentially goes. Well, yeah, the price

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<v Speaker 1>has dropped pretty significantly since we first started talking about this,

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<v Speaker 1>when monstrous mass strict meats, which I think was made

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<v Speaker 1>that jointern't show key thousand dollar hamburger patty. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we've we've come a long way, and I think you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's highly probable that sometime in the next five to

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<v Speaker 1>six years the freshest sushi you will ever eat is

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<v Speaker 1>going to come out of a bioreactor in Lincoln, Nebraska

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<v Speaker 1>rather than from a fisherman, uh, you know, off the

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<v Speaker 1>coast of Japan. Which is pretty exciting because it reduces

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<v Speaker 1>our reliance on the cold chain it brings it shortens

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<v Speaker 1>the supply chains pretty drastically. It's better for the environment.

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<v Speaker 1>You can scale it. I mean, a small country like

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<v Speaker 1>Singapore could reduce its reliance on and they eat a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of chicken. It could reduce their reliance on importing

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<v Speaker 1>from my company other countries, right, they could produce what

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<v Speaker 1>they need on the island. So I guess one thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Anytime I hear a lab being introduced into a process,

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<v Speaker 1>my parents always like, you know, close to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we had our own little gardens. Picture string beans and

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<v Speaker 1>a lettuce, and you know that your lab. We did

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<v Speaker 1>not have a lab. It was as you pick it

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<v Speaker 1>and you put in your mouth or wash it, but

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<v Speaker 1>in your mouth. So I do wonder about, Okay, what's

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<v Speaker 1>the nervousness or the concerns of the anxiety we need

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<v Speaker 1>to have about this, especially when you start to think

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<v Speaker 1>about genomics, synthetic biology involved in I don't know babies

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<v Speaker 1>and were were's the things that we need to be

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about here? Yeah, I mean they're listen, there are

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<v Speaker 1>I don't There are a lot of risks, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not going to sugarcoat it. UM. I would say that

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<v Speaker 1>the first and foremost one of the biggest risks has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with misinformation. We are barely getting out of

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<v Speaker 1>this pandemic with people being able to talk about messenger

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<v Speaker 1>RNA and we just didn't have the vocabulary three pandemic

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<v Speaker 1>to have that conversation. You know, this stuff is going

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<v Speaker 1>to make messenger RNA UM looks pretty basic. So we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to have to figure out a way to come

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<v Speaker 1>to the table and have reasonable conversations so that we

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<v Speaker 1>don't immediately catastrophize the really terrific science that's in the

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<v Speaker 1>process of being born. Now, aside from that, we do

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<v Speaker 1>have some serious challenges. One of those, weirdly enough, has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with I p UM. We don't really have

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory frameworks that both incentivize the research and the end products.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sometimes bring murky who's in charge UM and and

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<v Speaker 1>there are some questions around I p and if you

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<v Speaker 1>write source code for new forms of life, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a it's a live thing, like who who gets the

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<v Speaker 1>I P for that? UM? And if we've decided to

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<v Speaker 1>perform a genetic surgery using embryos and and altering their code,

0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, does that sequence in some way become owned

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<v Speaker 1>by the company that performed that genetic surgery. I know

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<v Speaker 1>this stuff sounds like the Star Trek future that in reality,

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<v Speaker 1>we're already seeing those problems today. And I've got one

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<v Speaker 1>quick example. One of the smartest researchers in the space

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<v Speaker 1>is Craig Entor and UM. They've been working on minimum

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<v Speaker 1>viable genomes. So when when researchers do this, they tend

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<v Speaker 1>to digitally water mark and it's just a way of

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<v Speaker 1>noting what's we're getting, like what what what nature did

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<v Speaker 1>versus what UM human researchers did. Very short, they embedded

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<v Speaker 1>a bacteria with a quote from James Joyce work a

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 1>portrait of an artist of the young man UM it's

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.280
<v Speaker 1>to live, to err, to triumph, to recreate life out

0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of life. And turns out the Joyce the state is

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<v Speaker 1>super litigious and they're not happy that that that their

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.439
<v Speaker 1>work got embedded into a bacteria without written permission. But

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.360
<v Speaker 1>there's no way to send a cease and desist to

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 1>a bacterium that is oh my god, space law. What

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<v Speaker 1>about you know, synthetic biology. Synthetic biology law exactly. You

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<v Speaker 1>definitely picked our interest. Um so much on Amy, Thank

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 1>you so much, Amy Webb. She's CEO and founder of

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 1>the Future Today Institute. Our book check it out, The

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Genesis Machine. All right, what today for Tim Stanebeck, the

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.840
<v Speaker 1>whole Blomberg Business Week team. I'm Carol Master. I have

0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>a good and safe evening.