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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Monday morning edition of the Daily Juice podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Matt Peraltaf of Bettingpros dot Com. It's Monday.

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Speaker 1: That means we go to school, long form interview, long

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Speaker 1: form podcast, A forty five minute podcast about to hit

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Speaker 1: you right now here on a Monday. Matthew Holt the

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Speaker 1: president of US Integrity, a company that does incredible work

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Speaker 1: with some really big brands keeping everyone safe and honest

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Speaker 1: when it comes to sports gambling. We'll join us and

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Speaker 1: he's also a heck of a UFC gambler, so we're

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Speaker 1: going to break down how to bet on UFC fights,

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Speaker 1: advice to them he can give you as you can

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Speaker 1: become a better gambler for UFC fights coming up. There's

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Speaker 1: a big pay per view in August. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: Daniel Cormier and his fight coming up against de b Meochic,

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Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that in a second. But picks

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Speaker 1: here at the top. Out of the Daily Juice. So

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Speaker 1: Week one, ten and three, Week two, four and nine,

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Speaker 1: Week five, th we went six and five, not great

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Speaker 1: because of golf and somewaco picks. It didn't go our way,

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Speaker 1: but hot in baseball six and one start oh and two. Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: Red Sox run line didn't hit. Red Sox lost to

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Speaker 1: the Orioles. Reds run line didn't hit, they lost, and

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Speaker 1: they just it's just really kind of annoying to look

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Speaker 1: at that Reds team. We'd be like, how are you

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Speaker 1: losing baseball games to the Tigers? But Tigers get the victory.

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Speaker 1: Frustration top of the ninth to run home run. Just

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Speaker 1: a mess there for the end of the bullpen. But

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Speaker 1: I still really like the Reds, in particular the starting pitching.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my goodness, the Reds are king batters like

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Speaker 1: crazy with their pitchers, but they're also striking out a ton.

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Speaker 1: They set a record for strikeouts in the first three

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Speaker 1: games that was set in eighteen ninety so it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a wacko year already with tons of strikeouts, but

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Speaker 1: the pitchers are also striking out a ton of batters.

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Speaker 1: So oh and two on Sunday, so let's get back

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Speaker 1: after it here on a Monday. Now, at the time

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Speaker 1: of taping, this is kind of some of the problems

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Speaker 1: we're gonna run into here. Teams haven't announced their starters,

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Speaker 1: so the sports books don't have the odds up. And

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Speaker 1: then the sportsbooks also don't have some of their other odds,

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Speaker 1: like first five and other things like that up across

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Speaker 1: the country. So certain books do, certain books don't. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of annoying. But you know, by the time we

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Speaker 1: all get going with our day on Monday, by midday,

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Speaker 1: then it's kind of time to make some wagers. So

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Speaker 1: this is my advice. I've got three plays that I

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Speaker 1: want to make, but I can't make them until I

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Speaker 1: get all the odds. One you can bet right now

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Speaker 1: as so as your book opens up, you'll be able

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Speaker 1: to bet at it. The other two you gotta be

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Speaker 1: a little careful because of where the numbers are going

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Speaker 1: to be. But let's start with the Red Sox and

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Speaker 1: the Mets. The Mets played on Sunday night. Baseball got killed,

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Speaker 1: give up fourteen runs to the Brace, embarrassed on National TV.

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Speaker 1: That's an angry baseball team. They're gonna throw Michael Waka,

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Speaker 1: who shouldn't be in the rotation. He's there because Noah

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Speaker 1: Cindeguard the injury and Marcus Stroman, so he gets the spot.

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Speaker 1: Not a good picture. Red Sox are really mad. They

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Speaker 1: lost two out of three and come Monday morning, Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio is going to light them on fire. Rip them

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Speaker 1: for losing the Orioles. Horrible baseball team, a team that

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Speaker 1: two times in the three game series forgot how many

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Speaker 1: outs there were. That's how bad it is right now

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Speaker 1: for the Red Sox losing two out of three to

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Speaker 1: the Orioles. So they are hopping mad. Red Sox can't pitch, okay,

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Speaker 1: not at all, not a lick. Can't pitch. They have

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Speaker 1: a horrible rotation. What they can do is hit, and

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Speaker 1: so I think they're going to hit. The Red Sox

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Speaker 1: over against the Mets. Even with the Mets deciding to

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Speaker 1: drive to Boston the game get over like ten thirty,

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Speaker 1: after media and whatnot, they're not gonna get to Boston

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Speaker 1: till like four o'clock in the morning, going up ninety

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Speaker 1: five down the mass Pike. Why they aren't flying, I

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Speaker 1: have no idea. But they're driving three and a half

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Speaker 1: hour drive. It's brutal. I've done it many times. Yuck.

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Speaker 1: So they're driving. That probably will make Tuesday a more

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Speaker 1: difficult run for them, because I think they're gonna be

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Speaker 1: hopped up on adrenaline and anger. I like the over

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Speaker 1: in the Red Sox and the Mets as long as

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Speaker 1: it's not more than ten and a half. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: get to eleven and twelve, I probably will pass on it.

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Speaker 1: But if it gets to ten and a half, that's

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Speaker 1: where it is. Ten and a half. I'll play the

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Speaker 1: over on the Red Sox in the Mets, because the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox bats. I have to come to life. I

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Speaker 1: don't like Waka and Josh Osich is pitching for the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox, first time he's ever started the game in

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Speaker 1: his life. Only good thing I say about that guy.

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Speaker 1: He married a girl from my hometown in Anderver, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: That's all I can say about Josh Hotchers. Two hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighteen career appearances, not one start. So we're starting

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Speaker 1: coming up against the Mets, and then you got Zach

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Speaker 1: Godley taking over for the Red Sox probably after two innings.

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Speaker 1: You know, thirty year old journeyman so runs runs runs.

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Speaker 1: I think you see a lot of runs in the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox in the Mets. So we're gonna bet the

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Speaker 1: over there, But we gotta see what that number is. Diamondbacks.

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Speaker 1: The Diamondbacks have this kid, Luke Weaver, who is going

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Speaker 1: to be pitching for them. He was the centerpiece of

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Speaker 1: the Paul Goldsmith trade. So this is the guy who

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Speaker 1: they thought would be unbelievable, but last year only twelve

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Speaker 1: starts had a sub three Era got hurt though now

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Speaker 1: he's healthy. Kid throws gas sixty nine k's in sixty

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Speaker 1: four innings last year. This kid is gonna be really

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Speaker 1: fun to watch. So we don't know who's gonna start

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Speaker 1: you for the Padres. It's sort of a question mark

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Speaker 1: right now. Joey Ocasey is a guy who's supposed to start. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: big guy with a big bender, got a really huge curveball.

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Speaker 1: But the Diamondbacks got something going in the late inning

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Speaker 1: on Sunday, came from behind, finally beat the Padres, got

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Speaker 1: their first win of the year. I like them to

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Speaker 1: keep going. I like the Diamondbacks to beat the Padres again.

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Speaker 1: Here at Petco Park behind Luke Weaver making his first

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Speaker 1: start of the twenty twenty season. But I don't have

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Speaker 1: any numbers on that because the official starter we're not

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Speaker 1: out there yet, so I can't tell you what we're laying.

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Speaker 1: I don't I need to see it. And it was

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Speaker 1: like minus two forty. I'm not gonna lay it, but

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Speaker 1: I do like it. If you can get under two

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Speaker 1: one fifty one sixty, I would lay it with diamonbacks,

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Speaker 1: but those aren't qute official plays because they don't have

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Speaker 1: the numbers in front of me. It's incredibly frustrating right

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Speaker 1: now on that, so I only have one official play

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Given where we are with COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: this is gonna be kind of where we are on

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Speaker 1: Sundays in the Mondays, Like, look at the Mini Marlins

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Speaker 1: for a second. The Mining Marlins are playing tonight against

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Speaker 1: the Orioles. But the Marlins don't want to fly as

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Speaker 1: a team because they got four players with COVID nineteen

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Speaker 1: and they don't know how many more players they have

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, So they don't want to fly as a

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Speaker 1: unit and get everybody sick. So trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: how they're going to do that, how can they get

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Speaker 1: back to Miami being on the road in Philadelphia, how

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Speaker 1: do they get back home knowing they've got COVID all

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Speaker 1: throughout their team and then who else is sick? So

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Speaker 1: that's a huge problem right now. For what's going on

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Speaker 1: with the Marlins, I don't know. By the time we

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Speaker 1: all kind of get close to game time on Monday night.

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Speaker 1: I think the story will be a much bigger one.

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Speaker 1: We'll find out exactly how many players of COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and then how the team got back to Miami. And

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, by the way, they're flying on the morning

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Speaker 1: of a game with big fears. So I'm not touching

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Speaker 1: that game with the Orioles, who are coming off of

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Speaker 1: winning two out of three on the road against the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox. So they're flying high right now. They feel

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Speaker 1: great about themselves. But I'm not going near that game

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Speaker 1: because I have no clue what the Mami Marlins are

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Speaker 1: going to look like. But that's where we are at

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. I mean, Mike Mustakis, right before we picked theirs,

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Speaker 1: like I told you, Reds on the run line, I thought,

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Speaker 1: Moose is gonna play. He gets scratched right for the game?

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Speaker 1: Why he felt sick? He felt sick. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is what we're dealing with here, Like out of nowhere,

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Speaker 1: guys are gonna get sick, scratches are gonna happen. And

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Speaker 1: so we got we talked about this, you know, three

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, right when the podcast started. You have to

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Speaker 1: tiptoe in here. I mean these you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: mind you just betting half units here, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna pull back a little bit myself, and

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Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna play half units and like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: recommend my one play of the day on a half

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Speaker 1: unit just because right now we have to wait and

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Speaker 1: see how this is gonna shake out, aside from the

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Speaker 1: sixty game season, aside from you know, not knowing what

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Speaker 1: these guys are gonna look like in terms of what

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Speaker 1: that were they're working out, Are they focused? No fans?

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Speaker 1: How can they handle it? But COVID is here in

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Speaker 1: a way that we knew it was gonna be here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we thought it would be this

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Speaker 1: big in the first three games of the year, though,

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Speaker 1: or four games of the year, four days of the year,

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Speaker 1: because I mean today Monday is day five, and we

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Speaker 1: could have the Reds with the big problem, the Marlins

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Speaker 1: with the problem, and there's one other team I'm forgetting

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Speaker 1: that had has a COVID nineteen question. So it's just

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Speaker 1: not it's just not good at all right now, and

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Speaker 1: we got to monitor this. So tiptoe in go light

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Speaker 1: probably half units here for a couple of days until

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Speaker 1: we figure this out. Until we figure out really where

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Speaker 1: we are. But as I said, look at these leans

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Speaker 1: if you will, and look at the numbers red Sox

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Speaker 1: over against the Mets and the Diamondbacks in their game

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Speaker 1: against the Padres. Like Dbacks to win the game. But

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Speaker 1: here is an official play for us here on the

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Speaker 1: Daily Juice. First five, let's talk about the Rays and

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Speaker 1: a pitcher who I love, Tyler Glass now could win

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Speaker 1: the American League. Cy Young. He is incredible, went healthy

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Speaker 1: last year six to one with a one point seven

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Speaker 1: eight ERA in twelve starts, seventy six strikeouts in just

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Speaker 1: sixty and two thirds innings. Really dominant, really dominant pitcher,

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Speaker 1: incredible when he's healthy. Mike Focanevich for the Elena Braves

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Speaker 1: has had incredible stuff in his career. Was great in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. He wasn't great last year, so he worked really,

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Speaker 1: really hard during the offseason. During the break he was

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Speaker 1: throwing six times a week. He was very sharp in

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Speaker 1: their scrimmage when he pitched three scoreless innings last Thursday.

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Speaker 1: So he's in a contract year, so he needs to

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Speaker 1: really get after it. Okay, full Navich, this is a

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Speaker 1: big year for him. This is a big start. For

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Speaker 1: him on the road. At Tampa DraftKings has the first

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Speaker 1: five set at four and a half runs. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: take the under four and a half runs in the

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Speaker 1: first five for the Braves and the Rays. Couple things

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Speaker 1: to know. Tampa is two and one to the under

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Speaker 1: in their first five. Atlanta was two to zero going

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Speaker 1: into tonight before they erupted for a million runs and

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Speaker 1: scored a million runs against the Mets, where Atlanta also

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Speaker 1: is two and one for the under in the first five.

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Speaker 1: You're flying from New York to Tampa for this game,

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Speaker 1: and the let'stility in the Braves and the Braves have

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Speaker 1: a COVID problem with their two catchers, so that's a concern.

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Speaker 1: But I just don't think either one of these teams

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Speaker 1: are gonna hit all that much. First five under, first

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Speaker 1: five under minus one thirteens where I saw at DraftKings.

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Speaker 1: Try to find a better number if you again on that,

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Speaker 1: but under first five four and a half runs between

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Speaker 1: the Rays and the Braves coming up is our only

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Speaker 1: official play, although I am called leans if you want

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Speaker 1: Red Sox over with the Mets and the Diamondbacks to

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Speaker 1: win against the Padres for us, all right, time for

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Speaker 1: our long form interview. Matt Holt is a very smart man.

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Speaker 1: He's the president of US Integrity here in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 1: They help to keep track of all the wagers, help

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Speaker 1: to keep us safe when it comes to scams and

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Speaker 1: things that might be going down point shavings and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: He's also a very smart UFC gambler. We talked about

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Speaker 1: both those things at length on Sunday afternoon. Matt Holt

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Speaker 1: here on the Daily Juice. All right, joining us now

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Speaker 1: here on The Daily Juice sits our longorge version of

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Speaker 1: the podcast We Go to School. We'd like to bring

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Speaker 1: on incredibly sharp people, people have been in the industry

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Speaker 1: for a long time. And our third guest here on

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Speaker 1: our long form podcast is Matt Holt. He's the president

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Speaker 1: of US Integrity one. He's a Boston guy who was

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Speaker 1: always a winner in my book, but former vice president

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Speaker 1: at CG Technology. He worked at a company which I

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Speaker 1: still think had the best name ever called the Odds Father,

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Speaker 1: which I absolutely love. I think that name needs to

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Speaker 1: come back from some former fashion in some website needs

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Speaker 1: to start The Odds Father. But Matt Holt joining us

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Speaker 1: here on the Daily Juice. Matt how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm great, Matt. Thanks for having me on pleasure as always.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were one of the first people I

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Speaker 1: talked to when I moved to Vegas many many years ago,

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Speaker 1: and you know, taking a look at what I was

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Speaker 1: doing over at the Venetian of the Palazzo, and now

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Speaker 1: during here the pandemic, this incredible company you launched us integrity.

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Speaker 1: For folks who might not know much about your company

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Speaker 1: and how you started it and why you started it,

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Speaker 1: could give him quick background.

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Speaker 2: Sure. So you know, I'm a former VP of Business

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Speaker 2: Development at Canter Gaming, which was CG Technologies, and I

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Speaker 2: was the COO of their sister company, a licensed information

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Speaker 2: service provider in the state of Nevada called CG Analytics.

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Speaker 2: And basically at CG Analytics we were the odds creator

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Speaker 2: fraud prevention and game integrity branch of Canner Gaming slash

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Speaker 2: CG Technology. And while doing that, we worked with the NFL, NHL, NBA,

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Speaker 2: you know, NCA, Big twelve, PAC twelve, Big ten, basically everybody,

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Speaker 2: and I really got an understanding that once past but

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Speaker 2: got repealed, there was going to be a need from regulators,

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Speaker 2: operators and league teams, universities, conferences, et cetera for truly independent, unbiased,

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Speaker 2: technology and data driven third party game integrity, fraud prevention

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Speaker 2: and sports betting compliance related services. So in the spring

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Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, I raised a bunch of money privately.

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Speaker 2: You know, our largest investor is seventy six Capital, which

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Speaker 2: many of our listeners here may be maybe knowledgeable about

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Speaker 2: that firm, And we started US and Integrity And now

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Speaker 2: we work with the NBA, the PAC twelve, the SEC,

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Speaker 2: the Big twelve, the Las Vegas lights FC here and

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Speaker 2: huge operators like william Hill, bet Fred Monarch and regulators

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Speaker 2: in thirteen different states. And I think you know, we're

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Speaker 2: the only integrity company in the entire country that actually

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Speaker 2: gets real betting data from our clients. So you know,

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Speaker 2: in the case of William Hill, we get every single

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Speaker 2: bet placed at William Hill to analyze and generate reports

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Speaker 2: back to William Hill from that data, as well as

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Speaker 2: sending it to regulators so that regulators have a more

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Speaker 2: transparent view into what's being wagered. And it's really important.

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Speaker 2: Integrity is becoming a big mainstay. Most of the states

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Speaker 2: outside Nevada that are legalizing sports betting have pretty strict

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Speaker 2: integrity mandates, and part of what's making those mandates work

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Speaker 2: is the ability for regulators, for the first time ever

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Speaker 2: to actually see and investigate betting data taking place in

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Speaker 2: their state independently by themselves. As much as I love

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Speaker 2: the state of Nevada and as much as everybody says

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Speaker 2: it's one of the most highly regulated states and gaming

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Speaker 2: in the entire country, they have zero integrity mandates and basically,

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Speaker 2: for the history of sports betting have been one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent dependent on the operators telling them when something's wrong.

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Speaker 2: But now operators nowadays are hanging massive amounts of games

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Speaker 2: and props and running on thin staffs. And you know,

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Speaker 2: most of the time when we find issues in sports betting,

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Speaker 2: it's not some multimillion dollar scheme that the operators are

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Speaker 2: going to notice. If we look at all the incidents

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Speaker 2: in the last twenty five years, Arizona State, Northwestern Toledo,

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Speaker 2: more recently San Diego University with Brandon Johnson, all of

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Speaker 2: these issues have perpetrators that are taking a couple thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars or less, and a lot of times the people

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Speaker 2: making bets will go into one casino and bet nine

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars and then eight thousand dollars and then another

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Speaker 2: nine thousand dollars trying to stay under that ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars federal reporting threshold. And they'll do that at ten

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Speaker 2: different property And how would each property individually know that

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Speaker 2: those three bets are suspicious. They don't. But when a

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Speaker 2: company like ours comes in is able to analyze the

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Speaker 2: entire situation, the abnormalities within the event as well as

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Speaker 2: all the abnormalities in the way. During markets, we tend

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Speaker 2: to pick it up pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: Sam, just a normal guy on the street, right, And

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Speaker 1: I walk up to you and I say, Matt, what's

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Speaker 1: the number one thing that you're concerned about. What's the

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Speaker 1: number one issue that you want us Integrity to be

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Speaker 1: able to tackle for your customers to take care of.

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Speaker 2: The number one issue that we deal with the most

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Speaker 2: is misuse of insider information. It's just a massive issue.

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Speaker 2: It's one that's not going away anytime soon. The information

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Speaker 2: flow has so much value, you know, knowing if Lebron's

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Speaker 2: actually going to rest tonight or if Kuhi is going

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Speaker 2: to rest. And what makes this underground information so valuable

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Speaker 2: is that it's no longer just players being hurt or

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Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, we have players potent actually

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Speaker 2: getting COVID and players resting because they just don't feel

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Speaker 2: like playing tonight. For load management, there's this huge underground

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Speaker 2: market for information, and much like the financial services world

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Speaker 2: where somebody like Martha Stewart went to prison for misuse

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Speaker 2: of insider information and insider trading, many of the regulations

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Speaker 2: in sports betting are similar to the financial services world.

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Speaker 2: So that's the one that we deal with the most.

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Speaker 2: The one that scares us the most is always officials

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Speaker 2: and referees, because in almost every single sport outside of

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Speaker 2: maybe hockey, the official or the referee has the most

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Speaker 2: influence over the game of any individual on the field

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Speaker 2: or court of play, and thus we tend to watch

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Speaker 2: that stuff very carefully, especially in how officials can affect totals.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we did a study a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: Crew chiefs in college football that throw more than average

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Speaker 2: amount of penalties from more than average amount of penalty

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Speaker 2: yards regardless of what those penalties are tend to have

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Speaker 2: the games they officiate go on under the posted wagering

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Speaker 2: totals about sixty five percent of the time, simply because

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Speaker 2: it is such a disruption to the high paced, no

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Speaker 2: huddle offenses that everybody runs now and allows the defense

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Speaker 2: to substitute. So and the NCAA doesn't announce referee assignments,

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Speaker 2: so there's an underground market just for which crew chief

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Speaker 2: is going to officiate the game. And these huge betting

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Speaker 2: groups like RAZ and many of these other large betting syndicates,

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Speaker 2: they look for that type of information because they know, oh,

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Speaker 2: if this official is going to rest the game, then

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Speaker 2: there's a much higher chance it goes under just because

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Speaker 2: of the pure amount of penalties they call per game.

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Speaker 1: The one area and I'm much going a blow whistle

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Speaker 1: on my brethren here, but on Sunday, the Marlins had

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Speaker 1: a widespread outbreak. You want to call it out of

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. Four players have COVID nineteen. There was one reporter,

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Speaker 1: beat reporter for the Marlins who started to put the

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Speaker 1: information out there in myself and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: saw that, and we bet the Phillies on Sunday because

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Speaker 1: we thought that maybe half the team might be out.

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Speaker 1: We do you know who was going to play for

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Speaker 1: the Marlins. We didn't have names. Phillies had lost the

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Speaker 1: game badly. Marlin scored a ton of runs. But you

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Speaker 1: know you mentioned the insider information. Is the media involved

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Speaker 1: in that?

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Speaker 2: Do? You?

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Speaker 1: Guys have to be careful with what the media gets

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Speaker 1: to find out and who they're telling before they publicly

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Speaker 1: report that information.

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Speaker 2: Of course, and we tend to look at credible sources.

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Speaker 2: So when we track what we call the first credible

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Speaker 2: release of information, we try to look at people that

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Speaker 2: have something on the line. They either have locker room

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Speaker 2: access and that's on the line, or they work for

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Speaker 2: a reputable media firm and at least that journalistic integrity

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Speaker 2: is on the line. Because there's so much information flowing

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Speaker 2: on social media alone. If you just run keyword searches

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Speaker 2: and stuff for social media, you end up with so

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Speaker 2: much noise on there that you have to sift through it.

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Speaker 2: So it's always a challenge not only finding, you know,

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Speaker 2: that first source of information, but is that source credible

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Speaker 2: and then secondly, should that source have been disseminating the

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Speaker 2: information at the time in which they did.

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Speaker 1: On well, I think it was Tuesday, we saw a

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Speaker 1: hearing on Capitol Hill where it was talking about sports

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Speaker 1: gambling and we saw Bill Miller from the AGA go

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Speaker 1: there on a panel, and we also saw the athletic

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Speaker 1: director for pitt stand up and we'll stand up. But

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Speaker 1: she testified basically saying things that sounded like it was

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight not twenty twenty. When it comes to

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Speaker 1: PASPA and the fact that she believes it sports gambling

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Speaker 1: college athletics, it's basically going to ruin the college brand.

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Speaker 1: How hard is that to kind of educate the public

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Speaker 1: that what you guys are doing, you're the reason why

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Speaker 1: it's okay to have college sports gambling companies like yours.

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Speaker 1: To have the integrity to watch for what's happening will

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Speaker 1: protect sports gambling for everybody.

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Speaker 2: You know. Amazingly enough, the University of Pittsburgh's one of

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Speaker 2: our clients now, and hopefully we can help educate them

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Speaker 2: to what's really taking place in the marketplace. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's not just them though, and to her credit, every

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Speaker 2: single collegiate administrator throughout the entirety of their careers, many

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Speaker 2: of them long distinguished careers, have been told to stay

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Speaker 2: away from sports betting at all costs. They still use

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Speaker 2: the two thousand and three don't bet on it can't

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Speaker 2: paign as the NCAA is sort of last, you know,

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Speaker 2: and most current legislation on sports betting. So it's a

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Speaker 2: situation where they were they're not supposed to know anything

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Speaker 2: about sports betting. You can't fault someone for not knowing

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Speaker 2: about a subject in which they were told to never

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Speaker 2: learn about it and stay as far away from it

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Speaker 2: as possible. So there's always an educational curve with our

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Speaker 2: collegiate administrator clients to say, hey, this is what's really

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Speaker 2: happening in the marketplace, this is what's really available to

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Speaker 2: bet on, this is the limits that are available on

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Speaker 2: those type of wagers, and here's how we're going to

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Speaker 2: monitor it for you and alert you if something suspicious

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Speaker 2: may occur. And I think the more educated the get

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Speaker 2: that they get, the more comfortable they get that you know,

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Speaker 2: the situations being monitored by the regulators, by companies like

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Speaker 2: US Integrity, and by the operators themselves, who obviously would

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Speaker 2: be the most financially harmed if you know a bunch

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Speaker 2: of fixings were taking place.

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Speaker 1: Does you US Integrity have an opinion on either federal

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Speaker 1: or state legislation and essentially monitoring do you would you,

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Speaker 1: guys prefer leave up to the states, or would you

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Speaker 1: rather have a federal bill but be put in place.

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Speaker 2: I'd rather leave it up to the states. But at

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Speaker 2: this point, what worries us and I even worry here

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00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 2: in a state like Nevada, how can a state that

431
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 2: claims to have, you know, some kind of be the

432
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: gold standard of regulation across the country have zero integrity

433
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: mandates within their state. It's time to update some of

434
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: these rigs. So some of these states, what's happened in

435
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 2: states where they're trying to get legalized at a time

436
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: where everybody's suffering financially due to COVID and some civil

437
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: unrest and massive unemployment rates, is they're rushing to get

438
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: launched to get legal, and sometimes in rushing they don't

439
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,959
Speaker 2: put the strongest integrity mandates in place. So I do

440
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: think that while I would always prefer that it be

441
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: done on a state by state basis, because who knows

442
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 2: their constituents within their state better than the legislatures and

443
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: regular in that state. So I would always rather leave

444
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: it up to them to handle their constituents. I also

445
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: feel like there should be some standardized language for integrity mandates,

446
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: for anti money laundering mandate, for geolocation mandates, you know,

447
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: all these things kind of fall in the same bucket,

448
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: and you'd kind of like to see the regulatory framework

449
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: of that be a little more standardized.

450
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 1: You know, Matt I called the offshow market the global

451
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: market because it definitely exists and it obviously impacts the

452
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: line and book operators or always watching each other. You know,

453
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: Bet Chris is a big one that has now talked

454
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: about coming on shore and becoming part of the legal

455
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: wagering community here in America, which really raise some eyebrows

456
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: when they thought about that. But do you see some

457
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: of the global markets trying to get in just two

458
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: different states, try to get licensed and be able to

459
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: operate in certain states in America where you know, five

460
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: ten years ago that would be unheard of.

461
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 2: Look, never say never anymore. Look, let's face it, five

462
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 2: or six years ago, or any of us sure that

463
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: DraftKings and FanDuel would ever get licensed in all these states,

464
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 2: And here we are now. Even Illinois, who was vehemently

465
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: against DraftKings and FanDuel just very recently licensed them within

466
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. You know, companies like BET

467
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: three sixty five, a lot of people were you know,

468
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: had some question marks. And I'm not saying that there's

469
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 2: anything wrong with these companies other than you know, there

470
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: were some question marks due to the markets they operated

471
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 2: in prior to as to whether they'd be able to

472
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: get licensed in the United States. But Fandual DraftKings, bet three,

473
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: six y five, playtech, s, b Tech. These companies that

474
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: have worked in global market, global markets throughout the last

475
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 2: two decades, some of which we would consider illegal or

476
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: illegal or illicit because they're targeting the US market, are

477
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: getting licensed in the United States. So I think as

478
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: long as they could pass the you know, the scrutinous

479
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: licensing processes that these states have in place, and that

480
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: these states are going through the right processes to ensure

481
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: that these companies are doing everything in the appropriate way,

482
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: then I have no problem with any of them getting

483
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: licensed and operating in the US. And at the end

484
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: of the day, a lot of these operators bring a

485
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 2: lot of experience, a lot of wherewithal and there's something

486
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 2: to be said for that in a new and emerging market.

487
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: One more question about where we are here with the

488
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: gaming world than I want to get to some UFC conversations,

489
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: But in terms of Baseball this year and the fact

490
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: that the books now are going action, they're not going

491
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 1: to change based upon who is pitching now and the

492
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: fact that COVID nineteen. You know, every day we may

493
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: have different issues to come up with players who may

494
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: or may not be able to play due to COVID nineteen.

495
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: Just how difficult a year is this for book makers

496
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: to have lines up for baseball?

497
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: Very difficult. And I'll tell you the reason that I

498
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: like the action thirty three million dollars last year is

499
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: a lot of people may not know there's a quarter

500
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: of one percent tax, so zero point two five percent

501
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: tax on every single bet taken by the operators. Whether

502
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: that bet get is wins, whether that bet loses, or

503
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 2: whether that bet is refunded and considered no action, the

504
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: operators still pay that quarter of one percent tax on it.

505
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: And there is no sport that ends up having more

506
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: refunds than baseball. A pitching change happened, suddenly there's a

507
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: big refund on the game. The game only goes six innings,

508
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: and you're refunding totals and run line bets. There's already

509
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: so many refunds built into baseball due to rain delays

510
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: and other issues that I just thought it took some

511
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: confusion out of it. Saved the sports books some money,

512
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it ended up

513
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: being a bad customer experience for novice betters. So experienced

514
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: Las Vegas betters very much understood the difference between listed

515
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: and action and whether or not they had a bet

516
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: on the game due to a pitching change or anything

517
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: like that. But a lot of novice betters don't. These

518
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 2: guys are new betting never existed in their state. They

519
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: walk into a casino or an establishment somewhere, you know,

520
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: they just want to bet fifty bucks on the game.

521
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: They bet, they bet on their team, and then their

522
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: team wins. The next day, they go to cash their

523
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: ticket and find out they they didn't win, and they

524
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: just get their money back, and it's a bad customer

525
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: service experience because they don't really understand why. So at

526
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I get both sides of it,

527
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: but I actually like the action part of it because

528
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 2: I thought it was a bad customer service experience for

529
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: the uneducated or less educated betters who haven't been doing

530
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 2: it in the legal market long enough. And at the

531
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: end of the day, it's going to save the operators

532
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: a lot of money on refunds on that quarter of

533
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: one percent tax?

534
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: Would you be in favor of repealing that quarter of

535
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: one percent tax that's being talked about right now?

536
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: Hundred percent? And I know that they're taking a third

537
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: crack at it now. Titus, who took the first two cracks,

538
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: is taking another crack now. And hopefully the first two

539
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: times she attempted it were both prior to the repeal

540
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: of PASPA. Hopefully now more than two years after the

541
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: repeal of past people understand that a law that was

542
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 2: created in the nineteen fifties doesn't really have any you know,

543
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: bearing or place in the twenty twenty regulated sports betting

544
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: world and only cost operators. And the one thing I

545
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: thought was really interesting is she did a big study

546
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: to say where does this money go? Ye? And she

547
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: called and called and said where does this money go?

548
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: And literally not one single person in the government could

549
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: explain where that money went. And thus it just kent,

550
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, tended to fall into some generic pool black hole.

551
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: And if the money isn't being used for responsible gaming,

552
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: problem gaming, you know, better regulation. If we're not using

553
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: it for gaming, then why do we even have it anymore?

554
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that study was pretty wild. That they couldn't

555
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: tell you where the money was going. It's like, wait

556
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: a minute, where the money is going? How do you

557
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: do that? All right, Matt, you are someone who is

558
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: seen as a sharp if you will in UFC betting.

559
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: You know you've been around it for a long time.

560
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: But what attracts you to UFC gambling? Why do you

561
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: find it so interesting?

562
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I was always a fan of

563
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: the sport, and then second, anytime you can get into

564
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: a market which is still a little bit immature, it's

565
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: going to create more opportunities. I think any experience book

566
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 2: maker or really experienced better would tell you that it's

567
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 2: hard to beat the NFL long term because there's so

568
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: much liquidity, there's so much media coverage, there's so much

569
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: analytics that go into the NFL that it's really difficult

570
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: to beat. Those lines are so sharp. And while UFC

571
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: has been getting massive ratings during COVID and has really

572
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: taken advantage of the opportunities in front of them to

573
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: grow their fan base, it's still an emerging sport. It

574
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: still has an immature market in terms of analytics, in

575
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: terms of the amount of time that odds makers are

576
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: able to spend putting up the odds, and for that reason,

577
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of opportunities to take advantage

578
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: of it. And most of all, I still think it's

579
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: a sport where perception sometimes overweighs stats. In terms of

580
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: betting odds.

581
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: It's almost worse in the UFC than boxing, right because

582
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: boxing numbers. I mean, I feel like bookmakers are more

583
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: experienced booking fights for boxing, and so they know what

584
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: money's going to come in, They know what big players

585
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: are going to come in and lay heavy numbers because

586
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: they've always laid heavy numbers. But in the UFC, it's

587
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: still it's still new enough that there might be a

588
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: chance to grab a number that might not be where

589
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 1: it should be. Is that fair in terms of how

590
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: book making is going on in Vegas right now, or

591
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: at least across the country.

592
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: To one hundred, But it's not. If you just took

593
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 2: the main events in UFC and compared them to the

594
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: main events in boxing, then I think the odds makers

595
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: are probably really good at it. The difference is boxing still.

596
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 2: Two things boxing hasn't figured out is that a you know,

597
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: people would rather bet on competitive fights instead of having

598
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: one to eighty favorites on most of fights that they're

599
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: airing now, and b that the fact that you can

600
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: only bet on the main event of a boxing match

601
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: of a boxing card normally kind of takes away from

602
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: the wagering experience. Where the UFC has really done it

603
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: right in terms of engaging with betting where every single fight.

604
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: So this past Saturday we saw fourteen fights on the card,

605
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: and while the odds makers may have a really good

606
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: grasp on who should win the main event, what's expected

607
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: to happen in the main event between you know, a

608
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 2: former middleway champion like Robert Whitaker and a top five

609
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: to tender like Darren Hill. And I think they got

610
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: it right in the odds having Whittaker is a very

611
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: slight favorite because the fight was super close. But they're

612
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: not going to be able to know the tenth fight

613
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: down on the card, you know, a guy making his

614
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: UFC debut against the guy who might have fought once

615
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: in the UFC. They don't have the time to track

616
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: these guys on the regional scene, put a lot of

617
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: time into the matchup, and because of that, it presents

618
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: a lot more opportunity for there really astute better when.

619
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: It comes to the work you do or the homework

620
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: you do on a card. I mean, I mean, how

621
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: how do you find your information? Are you watching YouTube videos?

622
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: Are you talking to people that you know? And how

623
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: do you find the information? If I'm just starting, how

624
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: do I find about somebody who might be making their

625
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: UFC debut or maybe maybe one or two fights in

626
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: the company history so far.

627
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: I think you have to watch, first of all, for

628
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: guys that haven't fought outside fought in the UFC yet,

629
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: you have to go watch some of their fights because

630
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: you never know who's the next great super prospect like

631
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: we saw with Chimayev, or who's a guy that's just

632
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: taken advantage of really really soft competition on a regional

633
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: scene whose skill set may not translate into a UFC

634
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: career as of yet. So I think you actually have

635
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: to do watch fights, and then you have to take

636
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: advantage of perceptual you know, I don't want to say

637
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: perceptual errors, but you know, the co main event, the

638
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: perfect example of it, Showgun whoevers Antonio Viggerio Nogueira. You know,

639
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: I took the over one and a half rounds. They

640
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: had fought twice before. Both fights went the distance seventy

641
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: five percent of Showgun who Is the last eight fights,

642
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: so six of eight went to at least round three.

643
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: Seven of eleven for No Gera went to at least

644
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: round three. So at the end of the day, you

645
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: have a situation where seventy percent of the fights for

646
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: these two go to at least round three, Yet the

647
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: round total was one and a half. To basically pick

648
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: the odds, because the perception is the forty four year

649
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: old has to get knocked out in this fight, but

650
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: he's also fighting a guy who's also near the end

651
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: of his career in Showgun Hua, and the stats said

652
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: that it probably should have been two and a half

653
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: over minus twenty. Instead it was one and a half.

654
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: Pick thems just because of perception, and a lot of

655
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: times people like to root for knockouts boxing or MMA,

656
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 2: and main events especially so since COVID started, I think

657
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: we've had what ten cards or eleven cards, and only

658
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: one of the main events thus far has gone under

659
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: figuredo his submission win over Joseph ben Vedez. Every other

660
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: main event has gone over the posted wagering total, and

661
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: a lot of times guys are in main events because

662
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: they're exciting because they win big fights because they've had

663
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: flashy knockouts. But when you get to the most elite level,

664
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: fighting the most elite guys, they're also good defensively and

665
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: understand some of the things you're trying to do, and

666
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: there ends up being a lot of value. The over

667
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: four and a half rounds this past weekend in the

668
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: main event was plus one twenty five when I played it.

669
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: Yet four of Darren Hill's last five wins four of five,

670
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: eighty percent of his last five wins came by decision.

671
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: Robert Whitaker's last two wins came by decision, and he

672
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: had a surgery on his knee after a torn MCL.

673
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: I mean, the fight never really pointed toward there being

674
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: an early knockout, yet the perception was these guys are

675
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: both strikers, so it has to be a knockout, and

676
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: of course it ended up being a very technical kickboxing

677
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: match as we thought. So sometimes it's just a matter

678
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: of ignoring the noise around you and looking what the

679
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: stats tell you. If a guy eighty percent of a

680
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: guy's wins come by decision, then that means the fight's

681
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: more likely to go to decision than not. And if

682
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 2: you get plus money that it's gonna go that way.

683
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: That's probably where the value lies.

684
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I speaking of ignoring the Jews and the ignoring

685
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: the the the the noise. I got caught up in

686
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: that because I kept on thinking to myself, why is

687
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: the under? You know the favorite here? Well, why is

688
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: there juice is? Why is the under juice? I thought

689
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: it was something I didn't recognize because Darren Till is

690
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: a pretty boring fighter, and I thought the only way

691
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: he was god tho he could end a knockout until

692
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: I had Till just to win because I didn't know

693
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: how he was going to win. I just picked him

694
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: to win on on plus money. And it goes to

695
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: the scorecards, and I think you're right. I think Whitaker

696
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: did win the fight three rounds to two, but I

697
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: thought the fifth round went to Till so barely. I

698
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: didn't get the two or three judges giving the fifth

699
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: round to Winnaker. That didn't make a lot of sense

700
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: to me. But giving the fight to Winnaker, I was, okay, fine,

701
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: but what do you make of judges? It's got to

702
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: be the it is for me, at least, the most

703
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: frustrating part about betting on the UFC, But is there

704
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: anything you can do about that as a better.

705
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: It absolutely is the most frustrating. And I thought there

706
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 2: was a fight on the card earlier, Carlos Sparsa and

707
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: Marina Rodriguez, where if you looked at places like MMA

708
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: Decisions and most of the sharper places, you know that

709
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: people give their scorecards on the internet as well as

710
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: the live odds, where Marina Rodriguez was minus four hundred

711
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: going into round three, and yet one judge had it

712
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: thirty twenty seven for a Sparsa and I at the

713
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: end of the day, why because she was getting takedowns

714
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: and she was on top. But the person on the

715
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: bottom was the one landing all the big strikes, the

716
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: big elbows that cut her up and swall her eye up.

717
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: And so sometimes I think some of these judges are

718
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: still a little bit novice and they don't necessarily understand

719
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 2: all the nuances of MMA. Oh that person got a takedown,

720
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 2: that must mean so much, or one knockdown must mean

721
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: so much, And you know, there's so much involved in

722
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: MMA that I think some of the judges don't have

723
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: the experience yet understanding all the nuances. So I always

724
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: tell people, look, be careful betting big favorites because you

725
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 2: never know when a judge is going to screw you.

726
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, whether the judge

727
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: did a horrible job or not, you're gonna lose your

728
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: bet without any ramifications and also nothing you can do

729
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: about it.

730
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you brought up heavy favorites. Guph is in making

731
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: his heavyweight debut, and I mean against Ferbricio ver Doom.

732
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: I mean for Doom looked really good at weigh ends

733
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: and everybody went, oh my gosh, I just stayed away

734
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: from that fight, but I couldn't believe why was Guph

735
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: minus three point thirty where he had never fought at

736
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: heavyweight before.

737
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: Again, perception drives a lot. So two things happened in

738
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: that fight. Number one, for Doom looked the worst he

739
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 2: ever looked physically in his career the fight right before

740
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: that against Alexiolinik and where he lost a decision to

741
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: Olinik in a fight where he ate a lot of

742
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: shots early. And the one thing in that fight, not

743
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: only did he look like he hadn't trained a minute

744
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 2: for that Olinic fight, he looked as a guy who's

745
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: over forty. He looked really bad physically. He just looked slow,

746
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: looked like he was a done fighter, and I think

747
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: people can't get that image out of their mind. And

748
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 2: then all the reports coming out of training camp where

749
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: that gustav Sin was just killing it and training camp,

750
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 2: and I don't know that that was wrong because I

751
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: think if that fight would have stayed standing, Gusson probably

752
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: puts it on him. But again, here's the difference between

753
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: boxing and MMA. If you bet a big favorite in

754
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: boxing and a flash punch happens and he gets knocked down, well,

755
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: the fight stops, and he gets ten seconds to clear

756
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 2: the cobwebs and get back up, and at the end

757
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: of the day he'll probably get back up and rally

758
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: and win the fight and either by KO or just

759
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: by outscoring his opponents the rest of the fight. If

760
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: you get a flash knockdown or a flash submission attempt

761
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 2: in MMA, the fight's over. I mean, you get that

762
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: flash knockdown in MMA and the guys on you hammer

763
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: fisting your head into the mat. That's it. There is

764
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: no so you get a lot more underdogs, a much

765
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: much higher percentage of underdogs winning in MMA than you

766
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: do in boxing, just because you know when that fluke

767
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: or flash knockdown happens, you don't get the luxury of

768
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: the ref breaking you up and giving you ten seconds

769
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: to get up and shake the cobwebs off and get

770
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: back in it.

771
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: It's a great point. Get you get hurt, you have

772
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: no time to recover really in UFC fighting. So we

773
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: always like to hear on the diligence mant. We always

774
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: like to try to get some inside information into the brain.

775
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: How do you go through things and how do you

776
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: process your information. What's the biggest mistake that you've seen

777
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: from gamblers when they're betting on the UFC. What's the

778
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: one mistake that you see everyone that makes that they

779
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: do it.

780
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: I think it's really betting on the guy's last performance,

781
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: and so last performances in MMA rarely mean that much

782
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: because styles make fights so much and people fall in

783
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: love with sexisty knockouts. You have to break down each

784
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: fight individually, and sometimes it's not just the matchup of

785
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: the fighter, but the motivation of the fighters as well,

786
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: and there's a lot that goes into it. There's a

787
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: fight that I wonder about next week. So this coming

788
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: up card we have Vicente Luke in the co main

789
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: event taking on Randy Brown, and I cannot, to the

790
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 2: life of me, figure out why a fighter with the

791
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: resume of Acente Luke, who's ranked. I got the fact

792
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: that he fought Nico Price because it was kind of

793
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: short notice and it was the first COVID card and

794
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: they had such a great fight the first time. Why

795
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: not put one on to the fan. But at this

796
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: point in his career, why in the world is Vicente

797
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: Luka fighting an un ranked fighter for the second straight

798
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 2: time when this guy's probably literally two fights against ranked

799
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 2: fighters away from a title shot, So that one doesn't

800
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: make a lot of sense to me. And I'm a

801
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: little nervous about the motivation because when I compare those fighters,

802
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: I think Vicente Luke should probably be like minus four hundred.

803
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: But I wonder again, why is he fighting an unranked

804
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: fighter for the second straight time?

805
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: And what about no crowds at UFC events? Have you

806
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: seen it? Is it any different? Is the sport being

807
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: judged any differently? Or are we just because on TV

808
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't I mean, I forget the crowd's not there

809
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: on TV. But from a betting standpoint, has it made

810
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: any difference.

811
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: I think it's made a huge difference, and it's made

812
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: a big difference in decisions. And one of the things

813
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 2: we've noticed is that guys that throw big whooping shots

814
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: and hard kicks where it lands on the top of

815
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: their foot and not the inside of their foot tend

816
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: to get the bet benefit of the doubt with judges.

817
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 2: Think back to Dan E gay versad sin Barbosa, there's

818
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: been several occurrence of it where it doesn't really matter

819
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 2: where these punches are kicks land. When you throw those

820
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 2: big whooping punches, what do they do when they hit?

821
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: They sound loud. You know, they have this big clapping

822
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: noise to it, and the optics and the audio and

823
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: an empty arena echoes, and you can't help but think

824
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: to yourself, boy, that must have been a big shot.

825
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: I remember Dan E gave Vers said Sin Barbosa Barbosa

826
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: literally almost finished him in the first and the second round.

827
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 2: Yet there was something about Egay's shots that were louder

828
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: and then the other part of it. And I don't

829
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: ever think it's intentional. And I caught a little bit

830
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: of heat on social media for this before, but I

831
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: do think the announcers are having an impact on a judge.

832
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: Just imagine a boxing match where you have a Hall

833
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 2: of Famer like Roy Jones Junior or somebody sitting next

834
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: to you, and you're this judge and the rounds really close,

835
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 2: and the Hall of Fame boxer sitting three feet away

836
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: from you, where you hear every word he says, is

837
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: vehemently saying, boy, this guy won that round. What a

838
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: clear round for this guy. You can't tell me it

839
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: doesn't influence that judge. And we're seeing it now. We've

840
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: seen it in so many fights, and it's not happening

841
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: in every fight, but in a lot of fights you wonder, Hey,

842
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 2: you have you know, Michael Bisping or whatever commentator you know, screaming, oh,

843
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: this guy won the round. What a fight. It's has

844
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: to be one one now and or has to be

845
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 2: too old this guy, and you're thinking, wow, you know,

846
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 2: I wonder how much of an influence that had on

847
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: the judges. And at the end of the day, with MMA,

848
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: it's also about camera angles. I know personally from attending

849
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: over thirty fights in person that when I go in person,

850
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 2: I tend to have different scorecards than the people I

851
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: really respect that are watching it on TV. Why because

852
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: we get better camera angles on TV you have cameras

853
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: from almost every single angle and no obstruction. And say

854
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 2: what you will, I have been on the floor at

855
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 2: many UFC events. The cage can be an obstruction. The

856
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: cameraman all the stuff right in your way, even if

857
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: you're right there next to the cage. The cage itself

858
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 2: does cause some types of obstructions. And then there's times

859
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: when the fighter is just because the angle there on,

860
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: you can't really get a great view of the opponent.

861
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 2: Why don't they put a judge up in a booth

862
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 2: give him the advantage. Yeah, not to replay it, just

863
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: to give him the advantage of watching the fight live

864
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: a without the commentator sitting him right next to him

865
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: influencing him, but be sitting there with the best camera

866
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: angles there are possible. Think of how we have replay

867
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 2: and everything else in all these sports. Now, why wouldn't

868
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: you want to give the judges the best angle possible?

869
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 2: And I hate to say it, the best angle isn't

870
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: looking up from the floor through a cage where one

871
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: fighter or the referee or so many different things can

872
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: obstruct your view. It's watching it on a screen with

873
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 2: the best TV, best TV cameras and high DEFF cameras

874
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: that money can provide getting the very best angle so

875
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: you can see everything that's really happening in the fight.

876
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: Matt, one more question before going, really appreciate your time

877
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: here on the Daily Juice. The next pay per view

878
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: card we have will come to Vegas, back to the Apex.

879
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 1: It's Stepe Miocich against Daniel Cormier for the third time.

880
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: It's the Fairway Farewell fight for DC. The Apex has

881
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: a five foot smaller octagon than what we normally have

882
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: what we saw over on Fight Island with those two

883
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,479
Speaker 1: big heavyweights losing that space. Does that impact that fight

884
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: at all? And could it cause one fight to go

885
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: one way or the other because of the lack of space.

886
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's almost at this point you're almost

887
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: assuredly to have the fight and inside the distance, and

888
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 2: maybe you wouldn't of other you would have had an

889
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: end inside the distance regardless as at this point both

890
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: of their previous fights ended in knockout. But what we

891
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: saw in the smaller cage when they hosted those cards

892
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: at the Apex this year was a lot more finishes

893
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: than we did in the traditional thirty foot octagon, and

894
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: on both sides, it wasn't just knockouts, but it was

895
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: also submissions because guys had less room to escape the

896
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: really elite wrestlers and grapplers, and it just forced more engagement.

897
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: So the power punchers had a better chance to land

898
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: because there was less room to circle around, and the

899
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: wrestlers had a better chance to get the fight to

900
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 2: the ground because there's more engagement force between the two fighters.

901
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: So I would definitely tell fans and I think in betters,

902
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 2: and I think odds makers have done a pretty good

903
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: job of adjusting already, but you certainly get a much

904
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: more significantly higher finish rate in the twenty five foot

905
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: octagon in Vegas at the Apex than you do in

906
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 2: that standard thirty foot octagon that they've been using.

907
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: By what you just said, Do you think Dana Cormier

908
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: gets the advantage because of the octagon size.

909
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I just think that the under has

910
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: an advantage because I think at this point in their

911
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: career they're both a little bit prone to knockout. So,

912
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Daniel was always known for his tough chin

913
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 2: until John Jones ended that. But now he's been knocked out,

914
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: and you know what, two of his last four I

915
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: mean Jones knocked him out. He had a couple fights

916
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 2: and then he got knocked out by Corn by Myot

917
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: Sick and on the other side, Myot Sick certainly hit

918
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: able two, especially at his advanced stage. These are both

919
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: older fighters. They don't move as fast. The defense isn't

920
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 2: as good as it used to be. I think it's

921
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 2: going to be who lands first with a big shots,

922
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: because I'm not sure that either of them can take

923
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 2: big shots anymore. As we see when fighters tend to

924
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: get older, while they still maintain that power late into

925
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: their careers, rarely do they maintain that same chin. And

926
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: in the smaller one with two guys that can really bang,

927
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: it's hard to see this one going more than round

928
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 2: two or three.

929
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: He is Matthew Holton, He's the president of US Integrity.

930
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: Definitely give him a fall. Hello on Twitter at Matthew

931
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: Holt USI on Twitter, Matt, thank you for the time.

932
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: This was a ton of fun. Really appreciate you coming

933
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: on today.

934
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 2: Thanks Matt, best of luck, take care of my friends.

935
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it. Here for the Daily

936
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: Juice on a Monday. Thanks to Matt Holt again for

937
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: coming on the program. My name's Matt Perrault. You can

938
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at sports Talk Matt. We'll have

939
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: some more plays coming up tomorrow on baseball. I'm sure

940
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 1: six and three so far.

941
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: In the year we're going.

942
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: I hope you keep it going today, just one play officially,

943
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, the first five under for the Rais

944
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: and the Braves coming up tonight, and let's see where

945
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: those numbers are for the Red Sox and the Mets,

946
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: and then Diamondbacks and the Padres as well, like the

947
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: Dbacks to win and the Red Sox over we'll see

948
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: if those liens can come in with some decent numbers.

949
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: But they aren't official plays because we don't have the

950
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: stats that we want the numbers that we want here

951
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: at the time of taping. So we're back on Tuesday morning.

952
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe to the podcast wherever you get

953
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Tuesday morning for the Daily Juice here off

954
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: of bettingpros dot com.