1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:24,516 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When the team behind the annual World Happiness Report 2 00:00:24,596 --> 00:00:27,556 Speaker 1: finds that Finns are happier than Danes, or that Canadians 3 00:00:27,556 --> 00:00:30,836 Speaker 1: are happier than Americans, those broad results hide a ton 4 00:00:30,876 --> 00:00:33,876 Speaker 1: of nuance. We've been unpacking some of the reports more 5 00:00:33,916 --> 00:00:37,316 Speaker 1: interesting details in our last few episodes, but today we're 6 00:00:37,356 --> 00:00:39,796 Speaker 1: going to tackle one of the most striking findings in 7 00:00:39,836 --> 00:00:43,436 Speaker 1: this year's report. What's been happening to young people's happiness 8 00:00:43,476 --> 00:00:47,276 Speaker 1: over the last few years. And the picture is pretty complicated. 9 00:00:47,876 --> 00:00:50,396 Speaker 1: The good news is that youth happiness has been rising 10 00:00:50,516 --> 00:00:53,076 Speaker 1: in certain parts of the world. But the bad news 11 00:00:53,156 --> 00:00:55,156 Speaker 1: is that some of the wealthy nations out there have 12 00:00:55,236 --> 00:00:58,716 Speaker 1: seen worrying declines, and that includes the young people where 13 00:00:58,716 --> 00:01:01,876 Speaker 1: I live in North America. But the big question is 14 00:01:01,916 --> 00:01:05,316 Speaker 1: why and what can be done to halt this awful slide. 15 00:01:05,636 --> 00:01:07,756 Speaker 1: If anyone can help us figure it all out, it's 16 00:01:07,836 --> 00:01:09,596 Speaker 1: Yon Emmanuel Denev Hey Lauri. 17 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:12,036 Speaker 2: I'm a professor of economics and behavioral science at the 18 00:01:12,076 --> 00:01:15,916 Speaker 2: University of Oxford, where I also lead the Wellbeing Research Center. 19 00:01:16,116 --> 00:01:17,996 Speaker 1: He's also one of the co authors of the World 20 00:01:17,996 --> 00:01:20,876 Speaker 1: Happiness Report and the lead author of the chapter that 21 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:22,836 Speaker 1: focused specifically on gen Z. 22 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:26,636 Speaker 2: This year's report, we focus in on the age categories, 23 00:01:26,756 --> 00:01:28,916 Speaker 2: and my team and I we've really worked hard on 24 00:01:28,996 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 2: childhoodlessoned well being and so the way we define child 25 00:01:31,876 --> 00:01:34,716 Speaker 2: and adlesson it is up for debate, but we've essentially 26 00:01:34,796 --> 00:01:39,116 Speaker 2: put it as between ten and twenty four, so late adolescence, 27 00:01:39,156 --> 00:01:41,836 Speaker 2: because there's still some neurological development happening at these later 28 00:01:41,876 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 2: stages of late adolescents. And so it also was convenient 29 00:01:45,196 --> 00:01:47,196 Speaker 2: because that's where the data sort of starts. The earliest 30 00:01:47,236 --> 00:01:51,036 Speaker 2: subjective wellbeing data starts around age ten thanks to the 31 00:01:51,196 --> 00:01:53,716 Speaker 2: Children's World's data set, and then we do have the 32 00:01:53,716 --> 00:01:56,516 Speaker 2: Gallop whirldpoll and that runs from about fifteen years of 33 00:01:56,556 --> 00:01:58,636 Speaker 2: age all the way to twenty four. So it was 34 00:01:58,676 --> 00:02:01,876 Speaker 2: also a convenient to some extent to make sure that 35 00:02:01,916 --> 00:02:03,236 Speaker 2: we have these age cutoffs. 36 00:02:03,316 --> 00:02:05,596 Speaker 1: And so usually the World Happiness Report is often focused 37 00:02:05,636 --> 00:02:08,236 Speaker 1: on adult well being. Why is it important to look 38 00:02:08,276 --> 00:02:10,356 Speaker 1: at well being in children and adolescents? 39 00:02:10,356 --> 00:02:12,796 Speaker 2: Oh, I was absolutely adamant on the editorial board to 40 00:02:12,876 --> 00:02:15,956 Speaker 2: start thinking more seriously about child adlesson well being is, 41 00:02:16,036 --> 00:02:17,916 Speaker 2: as you say, the world happen and support which does 42 00:02:17,996 --> 00:02:20,916 Speaker 2: the World's rankings of what the happiest populations are, but 43 00:02:20,916 --> 00:02:23,236 Speaker 2: they were really eighteen plus and so at some point, 44 00:02:23,316 --> 00:02:25,756 Speaker 2: and we obviously all knew with COVID putting a spotlight 45 00:02:25,796 --> 00:02:28,676 Speaker 2: on child mental health that we had to take child 46 00:02:28,676 --> 00:02:31,156 Speaker 2: and ad last and wellbeing way more seriously. But there's 47 00:02:31,156 --> 00:02:33,476 Speaker 2: always been a lack of data, and the Gallobral Pole, 48 00:02:33,716 --> 00:02:36,196 Speaker 2: our workhorse, if you will, for the rankings only starts 49 00:02:36,196 --> 00:02:39,436 Speaker 2: really from late adolescens onwards. So it was a massive effort, 50 00:02:39,476 --> 00:02:41,476 Speaker 2: and we waited in a way for the PISA data. 51 00:02:41,596 --> 00:02:44,196 Speaker 2: The OECD releases the PISA data, but that only happens 52 00:02:44,196 --> 00:02:47,076 Speaker 2: once every four years or so, and so that combined 53 00:02:47,116 --> 00:02:50,356 Speaker 2: with two other data sets, Children's Worlds and HPSC, allowed 54 00:02:50,396 --> 00:02:52,956 Speaker 2: us to start piecing together the global map of child 55 00:02:52,956 --> 00:02:54,956 Speaker 2: and a lesson and Wellbeing. But to your question of 56 00:02:54,956 --> 00:02:57,236 Speaker 2: why it matters, child and lesson and well being matters 57 00:02:57,556 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 2: so much because it's the best predictor of how you 58 00:03:00,676 --> 00:03:04,076 Speaker 2: will be doing as an adult d and so mental 59 00:03:04,076 --> 00:03:05,956 Speaker 2: health as a child or and as an adolescent is 60 00:03:05,956 --> 00:03:08,156 Speaker 2: the best predictor of life outcomes and quality of life 61 00:03:08,156 --> 00:03:11,436 Speaker 2: for life satisfaction as an adult. And one particular study 62 00:03:11,436 --> 00:03:13,236 Speaker 2: that I care much about not just because I'm a 63 00:03:13,316 --> 00:03:15,076 Speaker 2: quothor on it. It's about ten years ago and the 64 00:03:15,076 --> 00:03:18,236 Speaker 2: Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences, Andrew Roswell and I 65 00:03:18,276 --> 00:03:21,436 Speaker 2: published a paper where we show that adolescent well being 66 00:03:21,476 --> 00:03:23,436 Speaker 2: and we were able to get data from the American 67 00:03:23,636 --> 00:03:27,276 Speaker 2: National Lujournal Study of Adolescent Health, and we found that 68 00:03:27,276 --> 00:03:30,636 Speaker 2: at different ages around adolescents, their well being at those 69 00:03:30,676 --> 00:03:34,756 Speaker 2: ages was most predictive of the same individual's earnings as 70 00:03:34,756 --> 00:03:36,916 Speaker 2: they were growing up. What we found is that ages 71 00:03:36,956 --> 00:03:39,836 Speaker 2: I think twelve, fifteen, nineteen and twenty one. It's a 72 00:03:39,876 --> 00:03:42,836 Speaker 2: panel study, so it's the same fifteen thousand American youth 73 00:03:43,036 --> 00:03:45,276 Speaker 2: that have been tracked over time. This was started in 74 00:03:45,316 --> 00:03:48,756 Speaker 2: the early nineties and they continued to be followed with 75 00:03:48,836 --> 00:03:51,196 Speaker 2: surveys all the way into their thirties. So we have 76 00:03:51,556 --> 00:03:53,636 Speaker 2: what their well being when they're adolescents, and we have 77 00:03:53,676 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 2: their sort of adult outcomes, including how much they're earning 78 00:03:56,396 --> 00:03:58,876 Speaker 2: age thirty and above. And what we found was that 79 00:03:58,916 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 2: their levels of well being adolescents was a massive predictor 80 00:04:02,236 --> 00:04:04,636 Speaker 2: of how they would be doing later in life, even 81 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:07,716 Speaker 2: as measures through their earnings. Now one could say, well, 82 00:04:07,796 --> 00:04:11,196 Speaker 2: maybe it's because happy or from richer families and socio 83 00:04:11,236 --> 00:04:14,236 Speaker 2: economic status is higher for these youngsters, but we were 84 00:04:14,276 --> 00:04:16,836 Speaker 2: able to control for that in a nifty way, if 85 00:04:16,876 --> 00:04:19,076 Speaker 2: I may say so, which is in that sample of 86 00:04:19,116 --> 00:04:23,156 Speaker 2: American youth of about fifteen thousand, they were about three thousand siblings. 87 00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:26,076 Speaker 2: So what we did is introduce what we call sibling 88 00:04:26,076 --> 00:04:28,516 Speaker 2: fixed effects or family fixed effects, where we would start 89 00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 2: looking at the differences between the siblings well being and 90 00:04:31,716 --> 00:04:35,716 Speaker 2: seeing how explanatory that is of the differences in the 91 00:04:35,756 --> 00:04:38,036 Speaker 2: future earnings of these siblings. So, say, Laura, you and 92 00:04:38,036 --> 00:04:42,476 Speaker 2: I are sister and brother, not unfeasible, and we would 93 00:04:42,516 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 2: be looking at your well being, my well being, looking 94 00:04:44,836 --> 00:04:47,556 Speaker 2: at the differences between them, and then see whether that 95 00:04:47,676 --> 00:04:51,156 Speaker 2: can explain differences in our later earnings and labor market outcomes, 96 00:04:51,156 --> 00:04:53,036 Speaker 2: if you will, when we're thirty and above and low 97 00:04:53,076 --> 00:04:53,796 Speaker 2: and behold it did. 98 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:55,116 Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like, if you know, if 99 00:04:55,116 --> 00:04:56,836 Speaker 1: you and I were brother and sister, but I was 100 00:04:56,956 --> 00:04:59,156 Speaker 1: less happy, maybe I was more depressed, even though we 101 00:04:59,156 --> 00:05:00,596 Speaker 1: grew up in the same house, probably went to the 102 00:05:00,636 --> 00:05:03,076 Speaker 1: same schools and so on, I'd be less happy as 103 00:05:03,116 --> 00:05:05,156 Speaker 1: an adult and I'd be earning less as an adult. 104 00:05:05,196 --> 00:05:08,076 Speaker 2: Too precisely, and it's quite significant. So this is all data, 105 00:05:08,116 --> 00:05:10,756 Speaker 2: but it was thousands of already back in those days 106 00:05:10,756 --> 00:05:11,676 Speaker 2: when the study was run. 107 00:05:11,796 --> 00:05:13,996 Speaker 1: So we really need to understand like kid mental health, 108 00:05:13,996 --> 00:05:17,396 Speaker 1: because it's having these important predicted outcomes. But my understanding 109 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:20,196 Speaker 1: was always that the story was that overall kids tended 110 00:05:20,196 --> 00:05:22,116 Speaker 1: to be happier than adults. So walk me through the 111 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:25,156 Speaker 1: kind of typical patterns like happiness. Researchers have seen it 112 00:05:25,236 --> 00:05:27,356 Speaker 1: about what happens to age across the life course. What 113 00:05:27,596 --> 00:05:29,276 Speaker 1: we kind of used to think happened. 114 00:05:29,316 --> 00:05:32,236 Speaker 2: Well typically and we still find it mostly to be 115 00:05:32,276 --> 00:05:34,396 Speaker 2: the case around the world. Is what you will know 116 00:05:34,556 --> 00:05:37,676 Speaker 2: better than anyone else is the U shape relationship between 117 00:05:37,716 --> 00:05:40,036 Speaker 2: age and well being. So essentially we start at quite 118 00:05:40,116 --> 00:05:42,676 Speaker 2: high in terms of our well being. We're happy as kids, 119 00:05:42,676 --> 00:05:44,836 Speaker 2: We're happy happy as we can be as kids, and 120 00:05:44,916 --> 00:05:47,276 Speaker 2: in fact then the report this to me was insight 121 00:05:47,356 --> 00:05:49,556 Speaker 2: for me, is just how happy kids really are. So 122 00:05:49,556 --> 00:05:51,356 Speaker 2: if you look at the earliest ages that we have 123 00:05:51,436 --> 00:05:54,276 Speaker 2: data for in life satisfaction, they start like at nine 124 00:05:54,276 --> 00:05:56,476 Speaker 2: out of ten as an average in some countries in 125 00:05:56,596 --> 00:05:59,116 Speaker 2: terms of life satisfaction. So we start really happy, and 126 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:02,436 Speaker 2: then we slide down the U curve towards the midlife crisis, 127 00:06:02,436 --> 00:06:05,196 Speaker 2: which typically late thirties early forties, with the pressures of 128 00:06:05,236 --> 00:06:07,676 Speaker 2: life coming through, mortgage to be paid off, small kids 129 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:09,836 Speaker 2: to be dealing with, and the prime of your careers 130 00:06:09,836 --> 00:06:11,556 Speaker 2: and the pressures of that, and then you sort of 131 00:06:11,596 --> 00:06:13,116 Speaker 2: like things brighten up again. 132 00:06:13,236 --> 00:06:13,796 Speaker 3: Kids leave. 133 00:06:14,076 --> 00:06:17,316 Speaker 2: You have the benefit of having kids, but without the 134 00:06:17,356 --> 00:06:19,756 Speaker 2: negativity around having to deal with it day in day out. 135 00:06:19,876 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 2: Your expectations become more realistic and you start climbing up 136 00:06:23,796 --> 00:06:25,596 Speaker 2: the other side of the U shape between age and 137 00:06:25,676 --> 00:06:28,356 Speaker 2: well being that has broken down in certain societies. So 138 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:31,236 Speaker 2: the big insight coming through in this year's World Happy 139 00:06:31,276 --> 00:06:33,876 Speaker 2: Sport with a focus on age is that in North America, 140 00:06:33,996 --> 00:06:36,116 Speaker 2: the US in particular, needless to say, and to a 141 00:06:36,196 --> 00:06:39,116 Speaker 2: lasser extent in Western Europe and Britain, you find that 142 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:41,716 Speaker 2: the first element of the U shape is no longer there. 143 00:06:41,756 --> 00:06:44,516 Speaker 2: It's completely flattened, and in the US it's even reversed. 144 00:06:44,716 --> 00:06:47,236 Speaker 2: Where youth in this case is below thirty or below 145 00:06:47,276 --> 00:06:49,596 Speaker 2: twenty five, depending on which data set you look at, 146 00:06:49,796 --> 00:06:52,836 Speaker 2: they start lower in terms of their self rated quality 147 00:06:52,836 --> 00:06:55,916 Speaker 2: of life, their well being lower than the adults and 148 00:06:55,956 --> 00:06:59,436 Speaker 2: that's really disconcerting, and that trend has started what is 149 00:06:59,436 --> 00:07:01,476 Speaker 2: it ten to fifteen years ago, but sort of in 150 00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:04,476 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, it's sort of flipped where you see that 151 00:07:04,556 --> 00:07:08,556 Speaker 2: the youngsters in America below twenty five in this case 152 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:10,556 Speaker 2: are less happy than the adults. 153 00:07:10,716 --> 00:07:12,196 Speaker 3: That's nowhere else to be seen. 154 00:07:12,316 --> 00:07:14,556 Speaker 1: And this is something that really affected me a lot. 155 00:07:14,596 --> 00:07:14,756 Speaker 3: Right. 156 00:07:14,756 --> 00:07:16,156 Speaker 1: This is one of the reasons that I started my 157 00:07:16,156 --> 00:07:18,196 Speaker 1: happiness class at Yale is that, you know, I was 158 00:07:18,356 --> 00:07:21,316 Speaker 1: looking at college students who I remember back when I 159 00:07:21,356 --> 00:07:23,356 Speaker 1: was in college in the nineties. I remember them being 160 00:07:24,116 --> 00:07:26,836 Speaker 1: they weren't happy all the time, but not the rates 161 00:07:26,836 --> 00:07:29,556 Speaker 1: of depression and anxiety that we're seeing in our current students, 162 00:07:29,956 --> 00:07:31,876 Speaker 1: and I just felt like there was an enormous shift there. 163 00:07:31,916 --> 00:07:33,836 Speaker 1: It sounds like, at least with the North American data 164 00:07:33,876 --> 00:07:35,676 Speaker 1: that's being born out and the report. 165 00:07:35,516 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 2: Absolutely so what your famous experience there is born out 166 00:07:39,236 --> 00:07:41,596 Speaker 2: in the data has never seen before in this way, 167 00:07:41,676 --> 00:07:44,036 Speaker 2: and that trend that you picked up way back when 168 00:07:44,036 --> 00:07:48,436 Speaker 2: you launched your famous class has continued and actually exacerbated 169 00:07:48,916 --> 00:07:52,076 Speaker 2: during COVID that hasn't recovered since either for the first 170 00:07:52,076 --> 00:07:54,676 Speaker 2: time in the world happening support We've done this test 171 00:07:54,756 --> 00:07:57,996 Speaker 2: to see if you were to split the population youth, older, 172 00:07:58,036 --> 00:08:00,596 Speaker 2: and everyone in between. If you were to do a 173 00:08:00,676 --> 00:08:03,716 Speaker 2: ranking just on youth populations around the world, the US 174 00:08:03,916 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 2: would drop to sixty third. 175 00:08:05,796 --> 00:08:07,396 Speaker 3: Sixty third, sixty third. 176 00:08:07,516 --> 00:08:08,876 Speaker 1: We're usually in the top twenty. 177 00:08:09,316 --> 00:08:12,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, actually like in the top end of the top 178 00:08:12,236 --> 00:08:14,836 Speaker 2: twenty normally is the population as a whole. But because 179 00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:17,076 Speaker 2: of youth falling off a cliff in terms of their 180 00:08:17,076 --> 00:08:19,956 Speaker 2: well being, the general population in the US has now 181 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:22,836 Speaker 2: dropped from i think place fifteen to place twenty third, 182 00:08:23,076 --> 00:08:27,476 Speaker 2: and that's wholly driven by youth not reporting their life's 183 00:08:27,556 --> 00:08:28,156 Speaker 2: going well. 184 00:08:28,276 --> 00:08:30,156 Speaker 1: And the problem is, it's probably not just the youth 185 00:08:30,156 --> 00:08:33,076 Speaker 1: of today, right, given what we talked about earlier, where 186 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:36,036 Speaker 1: youth mental health is actually predicting something about what those 187 00:08:36,036 --> 00:08:38,476 Speaker 1: young people are going to be experiencing later on. Not 188 00:08:38,596 --> 00:08:41,036 Speaker 1: investing in the youth of today being sixty third means 189 00:08:41,276 --> 00:08:43,796 Speaker 1: or likely to be sixty third, you know, into adulthood 190 00:08:43,836 --> 00:08:45,116 Speaker 1: and into many decades to come. 191 00:08:45,516 --> 00:08:46,396 Speaker 3: That is absolutely true. 192 00:08:46,476 --> 00:08:48,196 Speaker 2: So not only is there an urgent need to do 193 00:08:48,276 --> 00:08:52,116 Speaker 2: something because you can, but also because you have to, because, 194 00:08:52,116 --> 00:08:55,756 Speaker 2: as you say, the predictive power of child and adolescent 195 00:08:55,796 --> 00:08:58,996 Speaker 2: wellbeing and mental health will track throughout people's life course, 196 00:08:59,356 --> 00:09:00,916 Speaker 2: and that doesn't bode well for the future. 197 00:09:01,036 --> 00:09:03,196 Speaker 1: So I think one of the big puzzles though, is that, yes, 198 00:09:03,236 --> 00:09:05,516 Speaker 1: this is the trend that we're seeing in North America, 199 00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:06,876 Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing that I saw in 200 00:09:06,876 --> 00:09:09,836 Speaker 1: my college students in the US. But my understanding is 201 00:09:09,876 --> 00:09:11,716 Speaker 1: this doesn't seem to be the trend that we're seeing 202 00:09:11,796 --> 00:09:12,556 Speaker 1: around the world. 203 00:09:13,036 --> 00:09:13,476 Speaker 3: Correct. 204 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:15,756 Speaker 2: Absolutely, So this is one of the other big insights 205 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:18,236 Speaker 2: coming out from the World Happiness Support and where really 206 00:09:18,236 --> 00:09:20,996 Speaker 2: put the word world into the World Happening Support because 207 00:09:20,996 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 2: of this is we piece data together from the global South, 208 00:09:23,916 --> 00:09:27,476 Speaker 2: for example, and unlike North America and Western Europe, to 209 00:09:27,476 --> 00:09:30,396 Speaker 2: some extent, you find in places like Sub Saharan Africa 210 00:09:30,516 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 2: you find that youth has actually increased their self rate 211 00:09:33,316 --> 00:09:35,476 Speaker 2: a well being, so they find that the culity lives 212 00:09:35,516 --> 00:09:38,796 Speaker 2: is higher these days than it was before. And that's 213 00:09:38,916 --> 00:09:41,196 Speaker 2: in a way good news. It shows that this is 214 00:09:41,236 --> 00:09:43,396 Speaker 2: not a universal thing. It shows that this can be 215 00:09:43,436 --> 00:09:45,916 Speaker 2: reversed as a negative trend in North America and the 216 00:09:46,036 --> 00:09:48,876 Speaker 2: US in particular, and I think that's really important to 217 00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:53,036 Speaker 2: understand that globally there are massive regional differences. 218 00:09:52,716 --> 00:09:55,076 Speaker 1: And so talk about what could be causing these differences, 219 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:57,556 Speaker 1: because this isn't just kind of, you know, a subtle pattern, 220 00:09:57,636 --> 00:10:00,636 Speaker 1: like we're just seeing these extreme differences in how unhappy 221 00:10:00,836 --> 00:10:03,636 Speaker 1: North America and to some extent Australia and New Zealand 222 00:10:03,956 --> 00:10:06,996 Speaker 1: teens are, but how much happier you know, folks are 223 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:10,276 Speaker 1: in the global South and even in in Europe. So like, 224 00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:13,156 Speaker 1: what's going wrong in North America? 225 00:10:13,276 --> 00:10:15,596 Speaker 2: Well, before we dig into North America, I think the 226 00:10:15,636 --> 00:10:18,316 Speaker 2: reason why you have sort of a convergence really it's 227 00:10:18,316 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 2: not like youth in Sub Sahara, Africa is happier than 228 00:10:21,636 --> 00:10:24,556 Speaker 2: youth in say Belgium where I'm from, or the United Kingdom. 229 00:10:24,716 --> 00:10:27,796 Speaker 2: It's that they're sort of catching up and Western Europe 230 00:10:27,796 --> 00:10:29,796 Speaker 2: and North America coming down. So there's, if you will, 231 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:32,436 Speaker 2: a global convergence to some extent, and we've got an 232 00:10:32,436 --> 00:10:34,676 Speaker 2: amazing figure in the World Happen Sport Chapter three that 233 00:10:34,756 --> 00:10:36,476 Speaker 2: kind of where you see that quite clearly, we see 234 00:10:36,516 --> 00:10:39,636 Speaker 2: North America, Western Europe come down, Central Eastern Europe come up, 235 00:10:39,716 --> 00:10:41,836 Speaker 2: sub so Aheran Africa come up, and some regions in 236 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:44,556 Speaker 2: Asia come up as well. And I think that global 237 00:10:44,756 --> 00:10:50,556 Speaker 2: convergence is probably a result of the global inequalities reducing. 238 00:10:50,636 --> 00:10:53,676 Speaker 2: So we always talk about inequality rising, and that's certainly 239 00:10:53,716 --> 00:10:56,196 Speaker 2: the case within countries and especially in North America and 240 00:10:56,236 --> 00:10:59,516 Speaker 2: Western Europe and Australia New Zealand, but globally you see 241 00:10:59,516 --> 00:11:03,316 Speaker 2: actually a reduction between countries in wealth and income, and 242 00:11:03,356 --> 00:11:06,076 Speaker 2: I think that's partially also behind this convergence that we 243 00:11:06,116 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 2: see in well being and in youth well being in particular. 244 00:11:09,356 --> 00:11:11,556 Speaker 1: So in some ways it's awesome that the youth of 245 00:11:11,596 --> 00:11:13,676 Speaker 1: these parts of the world are kind of getting happier 246 00:11:13,716 --> 00:11:16,316 Speaker 1: over time, But when we look at North America, what 247 00:11:16,396 --> 00:11:19,196 Speaker 1: factors are causing you know, North American kids and kids 248 00:11:19,196 --> 00:11:22,236 Speaker 1: in Australia and New Zealand to feel so unhappy these days. 249 00:11:22,596 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 2: So I don't think there's one smoking gun, if you will, 250 00:11:25,756 --> 00:11:27,836 Speaker 2: that you can point to, but there's a lot going 251 00:11:27,876 --> 00:11:30,156 Speaker 2: on that it's not going in the right direction. And 252 00:11:30,236 --> 00:11:34,636 Speaker 2: so we can point to the inequalities within society in 253 00:11:34,676 --> 00:11:37,276 Speaker 2: the United States, for example, rising, which then obviously have 254 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:40,556 Speaker 2: to downstream consequence on people's mental health and wellbeing and 255 00:11:40,716 --> 00:11:45,036 Speaker 2: opportunities for youth from less privileged backgrounds. We can talk 256 00:11:45,276 --> 00:11:49,796 Speaker 2: about polarization, politics teering people apart, social fabric being in 257 00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:54,076 Speaker 2: the US being torn apart, communities being torn apart, within families, 258 00:11:54,636 --> 00:11:57,796 Speaker 2: youth and older generations, or between youth, brothers and sisters, 259 00:11:57,916 --> 00:12:00,236 Speaker 2: those discussions falling apart, and then I think there's no 260 00:12:00,276 --> 00:12:02,276 Speaker 2: way around that. We also need to look at technology. 261 00:12:02,436 --> 00:12:03,956 Speaker 2: You kind of get around the fact also that the 262 00:12:04,396 --> 00:12:08,396 Speaker 2: slide in youth well being coincience with the coming up 263 00:12:08,876 --> 00:12:12,196 Speaker 2: of social media and how people use social media, so 264 00:12:12,476 --> 00:12:14,676 Speaker 2: that can have positives and negatives, but if people use 265 00:12:14,676 --> 00:12:17,476 Speaker 2: it passively, people who are young and vulnerable, and what 266 00:12:17,516 --> 00:12:19,676 Speaker 2: they use in terms of social media and for how long. 267 00:12:20,156 --> 00:12:22,636 Speaker 2: And so we had the privilege of speaking with Vec 268 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:26,116 Speaker 2: Murphy the USR surge in general. Recently he noted data 269 00:12:26,156 --> 00:12:28,276 Speaker 2: that people now spent on average in the United States 270 00:12:28,316 --> 00:12:31,516 Speaker 2: about four and a half hours a day on social media. 271 00:12:31,516 --> 00:12:33,756 Speaker 2: And that's not even accounting for work on your computer 272 00:12:33,956 --> 00:12:35,076 Speaker 2: or Google or whatever. 273 00:12:35,356 --> 00:12:37,036 Speaker 3: It's really just social media. 274 00:12:37,156 --> 00:12:40,596 Speaker 2: So with the US falling to sixty third position, if 275 00:12:40,596 --> 00:12:42,996 Speaker 2: you were to just look at youth to blow thirty, 276 00:12:43,436 --> 00:12:46,236 Speaker 2: that is really a shame. And I would challenge everybody 277 00:12:46,236 --> 00:12:49,556 Speaker 2: in the United States, the society is government leaders to 278 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:53,836 Speaker 2: not punch below its way by this much. Because the 279 00:12:53,916 --> 00:12:57,156 Speaker 2: objective dimensions that you have in placed, wealth, health, and 280 00:12:57,236 --> 00:13:00,596 Speaker 2: much else, you should be doing a lot better for you. 281 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:04,076 Speaker 1: What can we do for our young people and what 282 00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:08,036 Speaker 1: can they do for themselves? John has plenty of suggestions 283 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:18,516 Speaker 1: right after the If social media, driven by the big 284 00:13:18,556 --> 00:13:21,276 Speaker 1: tech firms that dominate our economy is to blame for 285 00:13:21,316 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 1: the unhappiness we see in young people across North America, 286 00:13:24,116 --> 00:13:27,596 Speaker 1: Western Europe and as far away as Australia, there's probably 287 00:13:27,596 --> 00:13:31,316 Speaker 1: not much we can do about it, right well, Oxford 288 00:13:31,356 --> 00:13:34,276 Speaker 1: professor Joan Emmanuel Jenev billed out a bit more hope. 289 00:13:35,356 --> 00:13:38,956 Speaker 2: Technologies have come around. They tend to help and be helpful, 290 00:13:39,196 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 2: but with certain boundaries in place that evolve over time 291 00:13:42,236 --> 00:13:44,556 Speaker 2: as we better understand the impact of these technologies. So 292 00:13:45,036 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 2: an obvious one that we owe to Vivicmurphy, the US 293 00:13:47,876 --> 00:13:51,636 Speaker 2: serge in general, is he made the parallel between cars, 294 00:13:51,876 --> 00:13:54,756 Speaker 2: and at first cars were driving around in the streets 295 00:13:54,916 --> 00:13:58,276 Speaker 2: with huge numbers of traffic fatalities as a result because 296 00:13:58,316 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 2: of the cars weren't safe enough. We weren't wearing our seatbelts. 297 00:14:01,076 --> 00:14:03,356 Speaker 2: So over time we realize that this is a good 298 00:14:03,436 --> 00:14:06,876 Speaker 2: technology but needs specific limitations in place, and then they 299 00:14:06,916 --> 00:14:09,676 Speaker 2: were slowly but gradually put in place, and now we're 300 00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:12,916 Speaker 2: all benefiting from mobility in a relatively safe way as 301 00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:17,556 Speaker 2: a result of this coevolution between technology and social norms. 302 00:14:17,796 --> 00:14:19,876 Speaker 2: And the same could be done here with social media. 303 00:14:19,876 --> 00:14:23,916 Speaker 2: I think this can be a cocreation where everybody benefits 304 00:14:23,916 --> 00:14:27,996 Speaker 2: from these new technologies, but with certain guardrails in place. 305 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,556 Speaker 1: And so the idea is that as a society, as parents, 306 00:14:30,636 --> 00:14:33,436 Speaker 1: as people, we can sort of advocate for those guardrails. 307 00:14:33,476 --> 00:14:35,476 Speaker 1: We can, you know, push the government to say, hey, 308 00:14:35,556 --> 00:14:37,756 Speaker 1: what does the seat belt look like for Facebook, for 309 00:14:37,916 --> 00:14:40,276 Speaker 1: TikTok or something like that, What is maybe a speed 310 00:14:40,316 --> 00:14:42,276 Speaker 1: limit look like for maybe the amount of time you're 311 00:14:42,316 --> 00:14:44,236 Speaker 1: on these kinds of things and so on. Like, if 312 00:14:44,276 --> 00:14:45,756 Speaker 1: we push for that, then we can get maybe the 313 00:14:45,836 --> 00:14:49,476 Speaker 1: benefits of technology would like less of the limitation precisely. 314 00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:52,756 Speaker 2: And so we need to think carefully about how we 315 00:14:53,556 --> 00:14:56,436 Speaker 2: harness the positives of social media and make sure that 316 00:14:56,516 --> 00:15:01,796 Speaker 2: these virtual connections ultimately lead to physical connections amongst people. 317 00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:05,996 Speaker 2: Because we also heard from the US Surgeon General that 318 00:15:06,236 --> 00:15:09,236 Speaker 2: in his tour around these colleges, who's talking about a 319 00:15:09,356 --> 00:15:12,436 Speaker 2: change of culture where kids in high schools come up 320 00:15:12,436 --> 00:15:13,756 Speaker 2: to them and say, look, but we don't have a 321 00:15:13,836 --> 00:15:16,556 Speaker 2: culture anymore of speaking to each other, and let that 322 00:15:16,716 --> 00:15:19,996 Speaker 2: sink in for a moment. That's pretty bad. And it 323 00:15:20,276 --> 00:15:23,156 Speaker 2: also makes sense because if you now walk into a 324 00:15:23,276 --> 00:15:25,956 Speaker 2: lunch cafeteria in a high school, people will be behind 325 00:15:25,996 --> 00:15:28,716 Speaker 2: their screens and so it's much harder to stroke up 326 00:15:28,716 --> 00:15:31,916 Speaker 2: a conversation between each other and bond as human beings 327 00:15:32,556 --> 00:15:34,996 Speaker 2: and not just through virtual means. So we need to 328 00:15:35,036 --> 00:15:37,916 Speaker 2: think very carefully as a society to harness the good 329 00:15:37,956 --> 00:15:40,876 Speaker 2: elements of technology and make sure that social media puts 330 00:15:40,916 --> 00:15:43,196 Speaker 2: the social frankly and social media. 331 00:15:43,036 --> 00:15:44,916 Speaker 1: You know, this is something that I saw like rit 332 00:15:45,036 --> 00:15:47,436 Speaker 1: large when I was working with students at Yale. I 333 00:15:47,556 --> 00:15:51,316 Speaker 1: remember one kind of moment where I was thinking, like, Wow, 334 00:15:51,396 --> 00:15:53,916 Speaker 1: the youth are really struggling with their social connection and 335 00:15:53,956 --> 00:15:56,956 Speaker 1: they're turning to technology to like solve it. We had 336 00:15:56,996 --> 00:15:59,956 Speaker 1: this kind of competition on campus for like a new app, right, 337 00:15:59,996 --> 00:16:01,996 Speaker 1: you know, like they're all these schools kind of do 338 00:16:02,076 --> 00:16:05,596 Speaker 1: these like tech competitions, And one of the potential apps 339 00:16:05,636 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: that won the competition that I was looking at at 340 00:16:08,276 --> 00:16:10,916 Speaker 1: Yale was this app that was called Let's Get a Meal, 341 00:16:11,436 --> 00:16:13,116 Speaker 1: And the idea is like you go to the dining 342 00:16:13,156 --> 00:16:15,476 Speaker 1: hall and you're scared to talk to people, but you 343 00:16:15,556 --> 00:16:17,236 Speaker 1: go in Let's get a Meal, which is kind of 344 00:16:17,276 --> 00:16:19,436 Speaker 1: like Tinder for the dining hall, and you say, you know, 345 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 1: I could want to get a meal with somebody who 346 00:16:21,156 --> 00:16:22,236 Speaker 1: would want to get a meal with me, And you 347 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:23,876 Speaker 1: sort of swipe and find like, oh, I'll eat with 348 00:16:23,956 --> 00:16:27,076 Speaker 1: that person. And like the older folks who are judging 349 00:16:27,196 --> 00:16:30,116 Speaker 1: this competition like me, were like, wait, but it's the 350 00:16:30,196 --> 00:16:32,596 Speaker 1: dining hall. Why don't you just like sit down with someone. 351 00:16:32,716 --> 00:16:35,116 Speaker 1: It's like one hundred students that you all should really 352 00:16:35,196 --> 00:16:37,196 Speaker 1: know because they're like in your same dorm, Like just 353 00:16:37,356 --> 00:16:39,916 Speaker 1: talk to somebody. But the students really felt like they 354 00:16:40,036 --> 00:16:43,476 Speaker 1: needed a tool, a technological tool, to like connect and 355 00:16:43,636 --> 00:16:46,196 Speaker 1: just talk with somebody in their lunch cafeteria. 356 00:16:46,436 --> 00:16:48,956 Speaker 2: I think that speaks to what Vivik Merthy you as 357 00:16:49,036 --> 00:16:52,396 Speaker 2: certain general toll is that that culture has changed. It's 358 00:16:52,476 --> 00:16:55,356 Speaker 2: now not easy to sort of reach out to other 359 00:16:55,476 --> 00:16:58,476 Speaker 2: people in the cafeteria in person. We need to bring 360 00:16:58,556 --> 00:17:01,476 Speaker 2: it back into people's comfort zone to be able and 361 00:17:01,556 --> 00:17:03,716 Speaker 2: willing and actually be able to reach out to human 362 00:17:03,796 --> 00:17:08,676 Speaker 2: beings in person and not necessarily neat the technology enabling 363 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:12,396 Speaker 2: of that when people are literally sitting in the cafeteria. 364 00:17:12,956 --> 00:17:15,436 Speaker 1: But this idea raises a certain hypothesis, which is that 365 00:17:15,716 --> 00:17:19,156 Speaker 1: the way that technology is affecting social connection is in 366 00:17:19,276 --> 00:17:22,276 Speaker 1: some sense worse for youth in North America and Australia 367 00:17:22,316 --> 00:17:25,076 Speaker 1: and New Zealand versus in Europe and in Africa. 368 00:17:25,636 --> 00:17:28,436 Speaker 2: Do we know that that's the case, We need to mean, 369 00:17:28,476 --> 00:17:30,436 Speaker 2: it's an empirical question, you're asking, So we need to 370 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:33,636 Speaker 2: find out data of how much time they spend and 371 00:17:33,836 --> 00:17:35,756 Speaker 2: obviously in the US we now know it's about four 372 00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:39,916 Speaker 2: and a half hours a day. My guesstimate is that 373 00:17:40,036 --> 00:17:42,956 Speaker 2: will be slightly less in the Global South or Central 374 00:17:42,996 --> 00:17:45,516 Speaker 2: and Eastern Europe. Then the question is also not just 375 00:17:45,596 --> 00:17:47,916 Speaker 2: how much time they spend on the social media, but 376 00:17:47,996 --> 00:17:50,956 Speaker 2: also what kind of social media and then how people 377 00:17:50,996 --> 00:17:53,076 Speaker 2: are using it. Is a passive use or is it 378 00:17:53,116 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 2: an active use, which is also very different. So passive 379 00:17:55,956 --> 00:17:58,356 Speaker 2: use is not to be recommended, but active use of 380 00:17:58,396 --> 00:18:00,796 Speaker 2: social media, where we actively reach out to people, actively 381 00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:03,996 Speaker 2: talk about yourself and connect with others, can be beneficial 382 00:18:04,076 --> 00:18:07,076 Speaker 2: for people's well being and mental health. So it's hard 383 00:18:07,196 --> 00:18:10,316 Speaker 2: to say there is something this is quirky, but we 384 00:18:10,556 --> 00:18:13,796 Speaker 2: ran an extra analysis to try and understand this. And 385 00:18:13,956 --> 00:18:16,836 Speaker 2: North America obviously is the US and Canada. The Canada 386 00:18:16,876 --> 00:18:21,716 Speaker 2: is split between the Francophones Quebecua and the English or 387 00:18:21,836 --> 00:18:25,116 Speaker 2: Native English Canadians, which are then obviously closer with the 388 00:18:25,316 --> 00:18:29,196 Speaker 2: US counterparts who look at sort of US slash Canadian 389 00:18:29,276 --> 00:18:31,876 Speaker 2: English spoken medium and there's something really striking there that 390 00:18:31,916 --> 00:18:34,236 Speaker 2: could point us in the direction a thought, which is 391 00:18:35,196 --> 00:18:37,996 Speaker 2: Quebecqui youth have seen a drop but by no means 392 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:41,916 Speaker 2: as large as the English spoken Canadian youth, and that 393 00:18:42,156 --> 00:18:44,596 Speaker 2: was not obviously in line with the American youth. And 394 00:18:44,756 --> 00:18:48,916 Speaker 2: so John Halliwell, my wonderful colleague and really the heart 395 00:18:48,956 --> 00:18:51,836 Speaker 2: and soul of the Royal Happiness Report, has noted that 396 00:18:52,396 --> 00:18:55,076 Speaker 2: and sees it as suggestive of the fact that the 397 00:18:55,316 --> 00:19:00,356 Speaker 2: English slash American media is perhaps more dominated by negative 398 00:19:00,436 --> 00:19:05,236 Speaker 2: news or calls that out in more conflictual ways then say, 399 00:19:05,356 --> 00:19:10,956 Speaker 2: the more international global Francophone way of news access. And 400 00:19:11,076 --> 00:19:12,996 Speaker 2: so this may not be social media, but more how 401 00:19:13,196 --> 00:19:16,156 Speaker 2: news is presented to youth in the world, in the 402 00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:20,436 Speaker 2: Francophone world, it might be less conflectual, less negative, speaking, 403 00:19:20,516 --> 00:19:23,396 Speaker 2: less to our negativity biases in terms of news than 404 00:19:23,436 --> 00:19:26,276 Speaker 2: it is in the English spoken the world in North America. 405 00:19:26,636 --> 00:19:29,196 Speaker 2: So there's an interesting hint there of something going on 406 00:19:29,436 --> 00:19:32,436 Speaker 2: that will not explain everything, but it's quite striking, we thought, and. 407 00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:34,076 Speaker 1: It fits with the thing that you were saying earlier, 408 00:19:34,116 --> 00:19:36,236 Speaker 1: which is, you know that many of the changes in 409 00:19:36,276 --> 00:19:39,356 Speaker 1: the US are about political polarization, and if you have 410 00:19:39,476 --> 00:19:42,116 Speaker 1: a news media that's kind of biased towards pulling that out, 411 00:19:42,636 --> 00:19:44,356 Speaker 1: and we have youth have phones in their pockets that 412 00:19:44,436 --> 00:19:47,156 Speaker 1: are dinging every time some politicians says something mean or 413 00:19:47,476 --> 00:19:50,396 Speaker 1: you know that negativity bias can get strugg over. 414 00:19:50,476 --> 00:19:53,276 Speaker 2: It can get overwhelming and dominates, and it's really sad 415 00:19:53,356 --> 00:19:55,796 Speaker 2: that then it doesn't allow any space for positive news. 416 00:19:56,116 --> 00:19:57,556 Speaker 1: And if you think about, you know, just like the 417 00:19:57,596 --> 00:20:00,436 Speaker 1: way college was, news was back when I was in college. 418 00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:02,356 Speaker 1: You know, it was just so different then, right. I 419 00:20:02,356 --> 00:20:05,276 Speaker 1: could pull up a newspaper and read something terrible, but 420 00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:07,036 Speaker 1: then I would put the newspaper down and I could 421 00:20:07,356 --> 00:20:09,116 Speaker 1: go to the library and hang out with my friends. 422 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:11,876 Speaker 1: And again it wasn't like diinging with a notification in 423 00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:14,396 Speaker 1: my pocket. About something terrible that was happening in the world. 424 00:20:14,476 --> 00:20:16,556 Speaker 1: And when I just think about the kind of anxiety 425 00:20:16,676 --> 00:20:19,876 Speaker 1: that can come from that theft of my attention and 426 00:20:19,956 --> 00:20:22,996 Speaker 1: that constant negative information, like it just must feel so 427 00:20:23,076 --> 00:20:24,316 Speaker 1: different for the youth of today. 428 00:20:24,796 --> 00:20:25,436 Speaker 3: It certainly does. 429 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 2: And the algorithms behind social media are obviously optimized to 430 00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:32,316 Speaker 2: get our attention. And as you know, well, we're hardwired 431 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,756 Speaker 2: to be more attentive to negative things that are potential 432 00:20:35,796 --> 00:20:39,516 Speaker 2: threats or issues that are alarming, rather than positive news, 433 00:20:39,596 --> 00:20:42,556 Speaker 2: and so the algorithm tries to seek our attention and 434 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:45,556 Speaker 2: then obviously does it by pinging us with negative news 435 00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:47,676 Speaker 2: because they know that we'll get our attention more easily 436 00:20:48,076 --> 00:20:50,876 Speaker 2: than positive news. So here too, maybe we should start 437 00:20:50,996 --> 00:20:54,556 Speaker 2: nudging or providing frameworks in place to maybe balance us 438 00:20:54,556 --> 00:20:55,156 Speaker 2: out a bit more. 439 00:20:55,396 --> 00:20:56,836 Speaker 3: Or we can do this ourselves. 440 00:20:56,996 --> 00:21:00,636 Speaker 2: We can undertake these automatic notifications, I'm sure than typically 441 00:21:00,716 --> 00:21:05,156 Speaker 2: negative news. We can perhaps subscribe to more positive news sources. 442 00:21:05,356 --> 00:21:07,636 Speaker 2: And I think I've actually heard there's a sort of 443 00:21:08,196 --> 00:21:10,956 Speaker 2: a new journal that is meant to be mostly trying 444 00:21:10,996 --> 00:21:12,476 Speaker 2: to balance out towards pulsitive news. 445 00:21:12,676 --> 00:21:15,396 Speaker 3: Maybe we can subscribe to that. We'll find out about. 446 00:21:15,156 --> 00:21:18,356 Speaker 2: When dogs are being found, we'll find out about the 447 00:21:18,396 --> 00:21:20,276 Speaker 2: World Happiness Report and the good things that are happening, 448 00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:22,276 Speaker 2: not just the bad things, et cetera, et cetera, et 449 00:21:22,276 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 2: c to help us ourselves regain our sanity. 450 00:21:25,396 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 3: In that way. 451 00:21:25,956 --> 00:21:27,796 Speaker 1: So let's say you're a parent listening to this, maybe 452 00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 1: even a parent in North America for example, watching these 453 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:33,196 Speaker 1: trends and just feeling really worried. You are there particular 454 00:21:33,316 --> 00:21:36,036 Speaker 1: strategies or practices you could suggest for parents for how 455 00:21:36,076 --> 00:21:38,596 Speaker 1: they could reverse the trend, maybe not in their whole country, 456 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:40,596 Speaker 1: but maybe in their own community or in their own family. 457 00:21:40,756 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 2: Well, I think as parents who are really concerned and 458 00:21:43,596 --> 00:21:45,836 Speaker 2: probably rightly so, what they need to do is, I 459 00:21:45,876 --> 00:21:49,276 Speaker 2: think try and understand their kids first foremost, because their 460 00:21:49,396 --> 00:21:52,556 Speaker 2: kids are good kids, but they're in a tough, complex 461 00:21:52,636 --> 00:21:56,156 Speaker 2: situation and not because of them, because of society around 462 00:21:56,196 --> 00:21:58,636 Speaker 2: them making it very difficult. So the social media that 463 00:21:58,796 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 2: tries to really attract all of their attention, and there's 464 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:05,036 Speaker 2: everything possible with the most brilliant designers and software engineers 465 00:22:05,436 --> 00:22:07,996 Speaker 2: designing algorithms to really try and keep them hook to 466 00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 2: the screens. There's AI automation that is making the future 467 00:22:12,556 --> 00:22:16,196 Speaker 2: of work cloak both interesting but also difficult and complex. 468 00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:19,836 Speaker 2: I mean, as a youth today, think about choices you 469 00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:22,836 Speaker 2: need to make for say studies. You might be saying, oh, 470 00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:25,836 Speaker 2: I'd love to be a lawyer and start legal studies. 471 00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:27,716 Speaker 2: But by the end of view four or five years 472 00:22:27,756 --> 00:22:30,716 Speaker 2: of law school, everything you've learned could be obsolete because 473 00:22:30,756 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 2: they chat GPT in some legal version of it. So 474 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:38,516 Speaker 2: there's so many uncertainties that kids live with today and 475 00:22:38,836 --> 00:22:42,196 Speaker 2: so many technologies trying to get their attention. So I 476 00:22:42,236 --> 00:22:44,276 Speaker 2: think the first thing that parents need to do really 477 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:47,076 Speaker 2: is to try and understand the complexity with which they live. 478 00:22:47,436 --> 00:22:49,756 Speaker 1: And I love this advice because, you know, honestly, even 479 00:22:49,876 --> 00:22:52,636 Speaker 1: with my yal students, sometimes I get people who react 480 00:22:52,716 --> 00:22:55,316 Speaker 1: of like, oh, what's their problem, you know, those snowflakes, 481 00:22:55,356 --> 00:22:57,356 Speaker 1: Like they really can't handle it. But I think when 482 00:22:57,396 --> 00:23:00,196 Speaker 1: you look carefully at the actual societal struggles that young 483 00:23:00,236 --> 00:23:02,756 Speaker 1: people are facing today, like it makes sense that you're 484 00:23:02,836 --> 00:23:05,036 Speaker 1: freaked out and feeling anxious about what's happening in the 485 00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:07,116 Speaker 1: world of work. It makes sense that you're freaked out 486 00:23:07,356 --> 00:23:10,996 Speaker 1: and anxious about political polarizing and inequality. We see, you know, 487 00:23:11,036 --> 00:23:13,236 Speaker 1: at least in the United States, and so I love 488 00:23:13,316 --> 00:23:15,276 Speaker 1: this idea that what parents need to start with is 489 00:23:15,356 --> 00:23:17,796 Speaker 1: just to recognize, like, it's tough out there for young 490 00:23:17,876 --> 00:23:18,996 Speaker 1: people today, it's. 491 00:23:18,956 --> 00:23:20,676 Speaker 2: Very tough out there, and so they need to start 492 00:23:20,716 --> 00:23:23,276 Speaker 2: with listening to their own children rather than trying to 493 00:23:23,316 --> 00:23:25,356 Speaker 2: bust them around and put these hard limits in place, 494 00:23:25,756 --> 00:23:28,756 Speaker 2: and understand the pressures they're under. And if they do that, 495 00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:31,916 Speaker 2: then I think they'll understand, for example, that there's lots 496 00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:34,596 Speaker 2: of peer pressure. So for example, if you say to 497 00:23:34,676 --> 00:23:37,476 Speaker 2: your child you cannot have an iPhone or an iPad, 498 00:23:37,556 --> 00:23:39,436 Speaker 2: or you can't go onto this particular app then your 499 00:23:39,516 --> 00:23:42,396 Speaker 2: child may actually be missing out on important things happening 500 00:23:42,756 --> 00:23:43,356 Speaker 2: in their. 501 00:23:43,276 --> 00:23:44,476 Speaker 3: Own school community. 502 00:23:45,516 --> 00:23:48,236 Speaker 2: And this then leads to a second thought that parents 503 00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:51,476 Speaker 2: could perhaps do is to coordinate with other parents or 504 00:23:52,116 --> 00:23:55,076 Speaker 2: their local school to see, hey, if there are specific 505 00:23:55,236 --> 00:23:58,836 Speaker 2: peer pressures or some people have access to something and 506 00:23:58,956 --> 00:24:01,636 Speaker 2: others do not, and that puts sort of inequalities in 507 00:24:01,676 --> 00:24:05,356 Speaker 2: place that are really harmful, then can there be a 508 00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:08,916 Speaker 2: coordinate approach amongst the parents of kids that are friends 509 00:24:09,196 --> 00:24:11,356 Speaker 2: or in the same class, or can they work at 510 00:24:11,356 --> 00:24:13,356 Speaker 2: the school boards to say, like, hey, can we have 511 00:24:13,516 --> 00:24:17,076 Speaker 2: a norm or a reference point or something that we 512 00:24:17,116 --> 00:24:19,596 Speaker 2: would recommend as a school or the parents of a 513 00:24:19,636 --> 00:24:21,636 Speaker 2: whole club of school friends. 514 00:24:22,116 --> 00:24:24,036 Speaker 1: And I think this is really important because it really 515 00:24:24,236 --> 00:24:27,316 Speaker 1: is not trying to intervene on, say, your kids particular 516 00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:29,516 Speaker 1: social media use or the fact that they're on TikTok 517 00:24:29,516 --> 00:24:32,556 Speaker 1: all the time. It's actually working in their community to 518 00:24:32,636 --> 00:24:34,636 Speaker 1: try to get these norms changed around, which makes it 519 00:24:34,716 --> 00:24:37,596 Speaker 1: easier for the individual to end up engaging in practices 520 00:24:37,676 --> 00:24:41,196 Speaker 1: that might be healthier for people's happiness exactly. And some 521 00:24:41,316 --> 00:24:43,196 Speaker 1: of the folks listening to the Happiness Lab right now 522 00:24:43,316 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 1: might themselves be in the category of folks that you 523 00:24:45,876 --> 00:24:47,196 Speaker 1: put in there. You know, what is it ten to 524 00:24:47,276 --> 00:24:49,876 Speaker 1: twenty five is your definition of youth? If there's a 525 00:24:49,916 --> 00:24:52,276 Speaker 1: teenager listening right now, what advice might you have for 526 00:24:52,356 --> 00:24:54,156 Speaker 1: them as an individual for how to kind of fight 527 00:24:54,276 --> 00:24:54,996 Speaker 1: some of these trends. 528 00:24:55,196 --> 00:24:58,836 Speaker 2: I think the first thing is to understand again that 529 00:24:59,076 --> 00:25:01,756 Speaker 2: you are living in a complex situation, that your attention 530 00:25:01,956 --> 00:25:05,316 Speaker 2: is being fought over, and that you should not let 531 00:25:05,396 --> 00:25:09,116 Speaker 2: yourself be had. If you will buy the brilliant software 532 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:13,476 Speaker 2: engineers of these social media platforms, take agency over your 533 00:25:13,556 --> 00:25:17,036 Speaker 2: own time. Follow Laurie's principles. 534 00:25:16,956 --> 00:25:19,316 Speaker 1: Around listen to the rest of the happiness lab, observe 535 00:25:19,516 --> 00:25:20,876 Speaker 1: exactly and. 536 00:25:20,956 --> 00:25:24,196 Speaker 2: Apply these principles about setting your own boundaries and not 537 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:28,636 Speaker 2: letting yourself be consumed by the big social media platforms. 538 00:25:29,036 --> 00:25:32,316 Speaker 2: And by all means, try and re establish a culture 539 00:25:32,396 --> 00:25:36,236 Speaker 2: of connection. And I know it's changed, there's no longer 540 00:25:36,276 --> 00:25:39,276 Speaker 2: a culture of speaking to each other, but make efforts 541 00:25:39,316 --> 00:25:41,076 Speaker 2: to get out of your comfort zone and do so. 542 00:25:41,796 --> 00:25:46,076 Speaker 2: And if I may want very specific practical piece of 543 00:25:46,156 --> 00:25:49,276 Speaker 2: advice is one thing we've seen in the wellbeing science 544 00:25:49,476 --> 00:25:52,356 Speaker 2: is that it's ultimately all about social connection and when 545 00:25:52,396 --> 00:25:55,676 Speaker 2: you do good things for other people pro social behaviors 546 00:25:55,836 --> 00:25:57,996 Speaker 2: as we call it in the industry, but really benevolent 547 00:25:58,036 --> 00:26:02,436 Speaker 2: acts like volunteering, donating small amounts, helping strangers in need, 548 00:26:02,836 --> 00:26:06,236 Speaker 2: talking to strangers. That doesn't just help the people on 549 00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 2: the receiving end, but we've now shown over and over 550 00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:13,796 Speaker 2: again in large studies with causal inference that this also 551 00:26:13,836 --> 00:26:16,876 Speaker 2: helps yourself. And so by all means, try and do 552 00:26:17,036 --> 00:26:20,356 Speaker 2: good things for other people, and you will see it 553 00:26:20,396 --> 00:26:22,236 Speaker 2: shouldn't be the goal line and of itself, but you'll 554 00:26:22,276 --> 00:26:26,196 Speaker 2: see that will help improve your own well being too. 555 00:26:27,076 --> 00:26:29,076 Speaker 1: And So one of the reasons I've loved dear chapter 556 00:26:29,156 --> 00:26:31,036 Speaker 1: on the World Happiness Report is that it kind of 557 00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:33,716 Speaker 1: calls out the trends that I was seeing in North America. 558 00:26:33,956 --> 00:26:35,476 Speaker 1: But I think it also provides us with a lot 559 00:26:35,516 --> 00:26:38,076 Speaker 1: of hope, right, Like, it isn't just the case that 560 00:26:38,156 --> 00:26:40,716 Speaker 1: youth mental health is going down all over the world. 561 00:26:41,116 --> 00:26:44,236 Speaker 1: If anything, what we're seeing is like there are possibilities 562 00:26:44,276 --> 00:26:47,076 Speaker 1: for improving things. They involve changes, and they involve both 563 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:49,996 Speaker 1: societal changes like maybe making things more equal, and also 564 00:26:50,076 --> 00:26:53,516 Speaker 1: individual changes like engaging in more social connection. But there's 565 00:26:53,556 --> 00:26:55,396 Speaker 1: hope there. The trend isn't just like, you know, a 566 00:26:55,516 --> 00:26:58,436 Speaker 1: downward slope forever. We can all take agency and change 567 00:26:58,476 --> 00:26:59,476 Speaker 1: these things exactly. 568 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:01,716 Speaker 2: And you mentioned social connection, and I think that's probably 569 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:05,076 Speaker 2: the real key, and again putting social in social media 570 00:27:05,276 --> 00:27:08,676 Speaker 2: and connecting in person. And it's a bit silly to 571 00:27:08,716 --> 00:27:11,276 Speaker 2: say it's a bit, but if you think about moving 572 00:27:11,356 --> 00:27:14,676 Speaker 2: from ill being to well being, it doesn't take much. 573 00:27:14,916 --> 00:27:17,916 Speaker 2: It takes moving from I to E and you move 574 00:27:17,956 --> 00:27:20,396 Speaker 2: ill being to well being. And that's just not just 575 00:27:20,516 --> 00:27:23,716 Speaker 2: a symbolically or figuratively, but that's for real. And the 576 00:27:23,836 --> 00:27:26,556 Speaker 2: more I've studied well being, and I know you've done 577 00:27:26,596 --> 00:27:30,276 Speaker 2: the same, Laurie. It's always about ultimately social capital, the 578 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:34,276 Speaker 2: social fabric of society, your own quality social connections. So yes, 579 00:27:34,396 --> 00:27:37,076 Speaker 2: by all means, do social media, but make sure it's 580 00:27:37,196 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 2: with people that you actually connect with in a way 581 00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:43,116 Speaker 2: that works for your well being and in real life 582 00:27:43,236 --> 00:27:46,196 Speaker 2: and in real life. Actually, I'm not reminded your calling down. 583 00:27:46,276 --> 00:27:49,796 Speaker 2: Nick Christakis and James Fowler way back they did some 584 00:27:49,916 --> 00:27:52,436 Speaker 2: of the first studies of social media around Facebook, and 585 00:27:52,556 --> 00:27:56,196 Speaker 2: they looked at sort of connections on Facebook and numbers 586 00:27:56,236 --> 00:27:59,996 Speaker 2: of connections, and then they really cleverly look that are 587 00:28:00,036 --> 00:28:02,676 Speaker 2: these connections that are sort of quite remote or quite close. 588 00:28:02,716 --> 00:28:04,476 Speaker 2: And the way they did this is by looking at 589 00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:06,876 Speaker 2: the pictures you're posting. Are the people you were tagging 590 00:28:07,276 --> 00:28:10,676 Speaker 2: actual people that you were meeting also live and so 591 00:28:10,836 --> 00:28:14,356 Speaker 2: that sort of became a proxy for qualitative social connections 592 00:28:15,076 --> 00:28:17,236 Speaker 2: rather than sort of more distant connections that are more 593 00:28:17,356 --> 00:28:19,916 Speaker 2: virtual in nature. And they found a big difference between 594 00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:24,036 Speaker 2: having actual ties with people being tagged together with you 595 00:28:24,196 --> 00:28:26,716 Speaker 2: in photos circling in social media, then having lots of 596 00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:30,436 Speaker 2: other friends that weren't actually part of your actual physical 597 00:28:30,476 --> 00:28:33,276 Speaker 2: surroundings and environment, and so that I think is a 598 00:28:33,316 --> 00:28:33,756 Speaker 2: big hint. 599 00:28:33,836 --> 00:28:36,196 Speaker 3: It's an old study, but it was ahead of. 600 00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:38,076 Speaker 1: Its time, and so so far we've been talking about 601 00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:40,556 Speaker 1: kind of what's gone wrong in North America. But I 602 00:28:40,676 --> 00:28:43,916 Speaker 1: love the World Happiness Report youths data because it's really 603 00:28:43,956 --> 00:28:47,596 Speaker 1: showing that something actually much more positive is happening in 604 00:28:47,676 --> 00:28:49,916 Speaker 1: the global South and in Europe, and so I want 605 00:28:49,916 --> 00:28:52,756 Speaker 1: to talk about the positive trends in those countries. You know, 606 00:28:52,796 --> 00:28:55,556 Speaker 1: what do we think is changing that's actually making people 607 00:28:55,676 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 1: happier in those parts of the world. 608 00:28:57,356 --> 00:28:59,916 Speaker 2: So I think what's happening in say subseri, in Africa, 609 00:29:00,076 --> 00:29:02,676 Speaker 2: parts of Asia, and especially Central and Eastern Europe. Because 610 00:29:03,036 --> 00:29:04,996 Speaker 2: by the way, you should know that if you were 611 00:29:05,076 --> 00:29:07,476 Speaker 2: to do a ranking of countries just based on youth 612 00:29:08,076 --> 00:29:09,956 Speaker 2: in the world happen sport rather than just the general 613 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:13,396 Speaker 2: population of countries, it'd be Lithuania on top for the 614 00:29:13,436 --> 00:29:15,796 Speaker 2: below thirties. And that's really striking. So the Central and 615 00:29:15,796 --> 00:29:18,556 Speaker 2: Eastern European countries have really come to the fore on 616 00:29:18,636 --> 00:29:21,516 Speaker 2: that front. That's with driving obviously their general rise and 617 00:29:21,516 --> 00:29:24,356 Speaker 2: the rankings as well into the top twenty really and 618 00:29:24,516 --> 00:29:27,676 Speaker 2: so that's exciting and we should look at those cases 619 00:29:28,076 --> 00:29:30,516 Speaker 2: in a bit like off a positive psychology approach, we're 620 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:32,956 Speaker 2: rather than focusing in on what's going wrong in America 621 00:29:33,156 --> 00:29:35,556 Speaker 2: with youth, maybe we can learn something from what's going 622 00:29:35,716 --> 00:29:39,076 Speaker 2: right in say Lithuania, or in other parts of the world. 623 00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:42,596 Speaker 2: And so in particular Subsiharan Africa, we see that youth 624 00:29:42,756 --> 00:29:45,796 Speaker 2: below twenty five in this case is rising. Adults are 625 00:29:45,876 --> 00:29:48,796 Speaker 2: rising as well, but the delta difference between youth and 626 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:52,996 Speaker 2: adults is increasing, So youth are proportionally getting happier and 627 00:29:53,076 --> 00:29:55,556 Speaker 2: that's exciting. And it's obviously the exactly opposite, the mirror 628 00:29:55,596 --> 00:29:58,396 Speaker 2: image of what's happening in the United States. Why and 629 00:29:58,516 --> 00:30:02,036 Speaker 2: so why I don't know is the honest answer, But 630 00:30:02,356 --> 00:30:05,236 Speaker 2: I think it will have to do with something we 631 00:30:05,356 --> 00:30:09,636 Speaker 2: touched upon earlier, which is the global convergence in terms 632 00:30:09,756 --> 00:30:13,436 Speaker 2: of income, so globalization. Of being an economist, we do 633 00:30:13,556 --> 00:30:17,676 Speaker 2: think about the economics of trade, global trade, globalization, and 634 00:30:18,196 --> 00:30:21,356 Speaker 2: it's probably behind much of the inequality within countries, but 635 00:30:21,556 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 2: it has effectively reduced inequality between countries, and so it 636 00:30:25,876 --> 00:30:28,436 Speaker 2: has lifted lots of people out of poverty. And for example, 637 00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:32,196 Speaker 2: China having become the blasto now but about ten twenty 638 00:30:32,276 --> 00:30:34,876 Speaker 2: years ago, because of globalization, became sort of the factory 639 00:30:34,876 --> 00:30:36,756 Speaker 2: of the world. While it brought a lot of wealth, 640 00:30:36,876 --> 00:30:39,276 Speaker 2: half a billion people rose out of poverty, and it's 641 00:30:39,316 --> 00:30:42,796 Speaker 2: the same across Africa, parts of Asia, et cetera. 642 00:30:43,436 --> 00:30:45,596 Speaker 3: It's probably most striking. 643 00:30:45,676 --> 00:30:48,956 Speaker 2: In the context of Central and Eastern Europe because you'll remember, 644 00:30:49,156 --> 00:30:51,676 Speaker 2: in the early two thousands the Central and Eastern European 645 00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:54,716 Speaker 2: countries joined the EU, and that meant a lot of 646 00:30:54,836 --> 00:30:58,636 Speaker 2: wealth transfer from Western Europe to Eastern Europe. So I 647 00:30:58,716 --> 00:31:02,436 Speaker 2: think Romania, Lithuania, and the other Baltic nations, et cetera. 648 00:31:02,636 --> 00:31:05,276 Speaker 1: Poland probably a lot of hope among the youth. Right 649 00:31:05,396 --> 00:31:07,716 Speaker 1: we were thinking about their job prospects in a different 650 00:31:07,756 --> 00:31:08,156 Speaker 1: way now. 651 00:31:08,356 --> 00:31:11,676 Speaker 2: So suddenly from being a Polish youth in Poland looking 652 00:31:11,716 --> 00:31:14,276 Speaker 2: for jobs there, the whole EU open up to you 653 00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:18,276 Speaker 2: as essentially a way of travel and job opportunities. And 654 00:31:18,356 --> 00:31:22,916 Speaker 2: then these wealth transfers through the European Union's funds and subsidies, 655 00:31:22,956 --> 00:31:25,916 Speaker 2: if you will, from the western, richer countries in Europe 656 00:31:25,996 --> 00:31:29,476 Speaker 2: to the not so rich Eastern European countries also meant 657 00:31:29,636 --> 00:31:33,036 Speaker 2: a certain degree of convergence in economic GDP per capital levels. 658 00:31:33,236 --> 00:31:36,636 Speaker 2: What's interesting here is that in Eastern Europe there has 659 00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:40,956 Speaker 2: always been a foundation of redistribution for good or bad reasons. 660 00:31:40,996 --> 00:31:44,116 Speaker 2: They were in the orbit of communism or socialism. So 661 00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:46,036 Speaker 2: that meant that there's always been sort of a DNA 662 00:31:46,116 --> 00:31:48,716 Speaker 2: of redistributing wealth to some extent, which isn't there in 663 00:31:48,756 --> 00:31:51,036 Speaker 2: other countries. So the reason why I'm emphasizing this is 664 00:31:51,316 --> 00:31:53,196 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why the Kandonavian countries do so 665 00:31:53,276 --> 00:31:56,276 Speaker 2: well is because they're wealthy, but more importantly, they redistribute 666 00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:58,476 Speaker 2: their wealth and there's an equality there which and also 667 00:31:58,756 --> 00:32:02,236 Speaker 2: feeds into the welfare state. There's other wealthy countries out there, 668 00:32:02,436 --> 00:32:06,116 Speaker 2: the United States amongst others, the US amongst others, where 669 00:32:06,236 --> 00:32:08,036 Speaker 2: there's a lot of wealth. So gdpeper a capital, the 670 00:32:08,076 --> 00:32:10,756 Speaker 2: average wealth is huge, but it's not equally distributed. So 671 00:32:11,036 --> 00:32:14,556 Speaker 2: that then also feeds into well being in equalities. 672 00:32:14,516 --> 00:32:17,436 Speaker 1: And so totally, particularly well being in young people right 673 00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:20,116 Speaker 1: who are looking at the next generation and their economic 674 00:32:20,196 --> 00:32:20,996 Speaker 1: prospects and so on. 675 00:32:21,236 --> 00:32:23,476 Speaker 2: Exactly and are not seeing the same prospects or not 676 00:32:23,556 --> 00:32:26,796 Speaker 2: as looking forward to the future as previous generations were. 677 00:32:27,236 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 2: Just to finish the thought, so what could be driving 678 00:32:29,636 --> 00:32:32,196 Speaker 2: say central in Eastern Europe is not just sort of 679 00:32:32,276 --> 00:32:35,236 Speaker 2: a wealth transfer convergence between West and Eastern Europe in 680 00:32:35,356 --> 00:32:38,076 Speaker 2: terms of wealth, but then also the foundations were in 681 00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:41,196 Speaker 2: place in Eastern Europe to build a welfare state and 682 00:32:41,276 --> 00:32:44,556 Speaker 2: redistribute this to a large extent so that everybody sort 683 00:32:44,596 --> 00:32:47,316 Speaker 2: of benefits from the rising tide, if you will, And 684 00:32:47,396 --> 00:32:49,796 Speaker 2: I think that will probably be the fuel, the main 685 00:32:49,916 --> 00:32:53,596 Speaker 2: driver behind I think my youth well being in this 686 00:32:53,756 --> 00:32:56,516 Speaker 2: place is starting to pick up. In addition to the 687 00:32:56,636 --> 00:32:59,636 Speaker 2: prospect of having way more job opportunities opening up through 688 00:32:59,676 --> 00:32:59,996 Speaker 2: the EU. 689 00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:02,476 Speaker 1: In addition to the sort of positive changes that we're 690 00:33:02,476 --> 00:33:06,636 Speaker 1: seeing in the global South and in Europe, we're also 691 00:33:06,756 --> 00:33:09,916 Speaker 1: seeing some countries that are pushing to make child happiness 692 00:33:09,996 --> 00:33:12,556 Speaker 1: and national priority. So tell me about some of the 693 00:33:12,636 --> 00:33:15,076 Speaker 1: successes that we've seen in those countries that really pay 694 00:33:15,116 --> 00:33:18,756 Speaker 1: attention to this in particular and push for improved child wellbeing. 695 00:33:19,116 --> 00:33:21,636 Speaker 2: So I know for a fact that in Japan they 696 00:33:21,756 --> 00:33:24,836 Speaker 2: have a whole new program around child health and wellbeing, 697 00:33:25,356 --> 00:33:28,116 Speaker 2: and they take this very seriously, and part because they're 698 00:33:28,356 --> 00:33:31,476 Speaker 2: moving towards well being more generally, but they've also really 699 00:33:31,556 --> 00:33:36,316 Speaker 2: gotten the importance of youth wellbeing today pays dividends over 700 00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:39,836 Speaker 2: time in the later lives of these youngsters. You see 701 00:33:39,876 --> 00:33:43,116 Speaker 2: that the focus then goes into schooling, the education system, 702 00:33:43,196 --> 00:33:45,036 Speaker 2: what can we do there, And so you find in 703 00:33:45,116 --> 00:33:47,676 Speaker 2: places like Japan, but also China and South Korea and 704 00:33:48,156 --> 00:33:50,876 Speaker 2: many other places, we're all sort of teaching to the test, 705 00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,716 Speaker 2: the SATs in the United States, the GCSS and the 706 00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:56,796 Speaker 2: A levels here in the United Kingdom. And that's also 707 00:33:56,876 --> 00:34:00,076 Speaker 2: raising questions because if that's the only basis of sort 708 00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:02,436 Speaker 2: of success is to do well on these tests. And 709 00:34:02,556 --> 00:34:05,916 Speaker 2: so you see new programs being developed around say Healthy 710 00:34:06,036 --> 00:34:09,276 Speaker 2: Minds is one of the programs that Lord Layard that 711 00:34:09,356 --> 00:34:12,556 Speaker 2: they heard or mentor has really introduced in the United Kingdom, 712 00:34:13,036 --> 00:34:18,436 Speaker 2: showing and teaching people life skills in addition to stem science, technology, engineering, math. 713 00:34:18,596 --> 00:34:21,676 Speaker 2: And what we find is that introducing life skills makes 714 00:34:21,756 --> 00:34:25,236 Speaker 2: for happier, more balanced human beings. It's pretty crazy to 715 00:34:25,316 --> 00:34:28,556 Speaker 2: think that we'd only focus in on the science elements, 716 00:34:28,836 --> 00:34:31,676 Speaker 2: or perhaps English literature and others and not teach people 717 00:34:31,796 --> 00:34:35,116 Speaker 2: to live good lives, especially in the era of social 718 00:34:35,236 --> 00:34:38,076 Speaker 2: media where people need to be given a sense of 719 00:34:38,196 --> 00:34:40,796 Speaker 2: what's happening on that front. A good example here on 720 00:34:40,836 --> 00:34:44,076 Speaker 2: the policy front is actually is Manchester, so they have 721 00:34:44,316 --> 00:34:46,756 Speaker 2: the whole school system round. Manchester is part of a 722 00:34:46,796 --> 00:34:50,796 Speaker 2: program called be Well where they are introducing essentially life 723 00:34:50,876 --> 00:34:55,556 Speaker 2: skill courses and tracking thousands and thousands students across many 724 00:34:55,636 --> 00:34:57,716 Speaker 2: dozens of schools to see what the impact is on 725 00:34:57,796 --> 00:35:01,036 Speaker 2: their well being and ultimately also their performance on these testcores. 726 00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:03,676 Speaker 2: Is to see that if you feel better, feel more 727 00:35:03,796 --> 00:35:07,516 Speaker 2: balanced as youth, as a student, is that also improve 728 00:35:07,876 --> 00:35:10,396 Speaker 2: actually your performance. The big question here is can we 729 00:35:10,476 --> 00:35:12,876 Speaker 2: have it both? Can we have great performance on our 730 00:35:13,036 --> 00:35:18,356 Speaker 2: tests and SATs and GCSS while being and leading happier lives. 731 00:35:18,476 --> 00:35:20,236 Speaker 1: I think that's so important. I mean, it's one of 732 00:35:20,276 --> 00:35:23,316 Speaker 1: the reasons that I started my class at Yale. But 733 00:35:23,396 --> 00:35:25,476 Speaker 1: I agree completely, Like you know, those are twenty one 734 00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:27,756 Speaker 1: year old. You know, if we could just start that earlier, 735 00:35:27,796 --> 00:35:30,316 Speaker 1: when kids are ten, eleven, twelve, I think it would 736 00:35:30,316 --> 00:35:31,156 Speaker 1: make such a difference. 737 00:35:31,396 --> 00:35:33,076 Speaker 3: Anybody with young kids. 738 00:35:33,356 --> 00:35:35,156 Speaker 2: Mine are too young for this, but anybody I know 739 00:35:35,356 --> 00:35:36,996 Speaker 2: who has kids that are now in high school know 740 00:35:37,196 --> 00:35:40,156 Speaker 2: the impact of say high school, primary and secondary school 741 00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:43,116 Speaker 2: is huge and perhaps more influentially than the parents have 742 00:35:43,236 --> 00:35:45,836 Speaker 2: influence on their kids. We need to work really with 743 00:35:45,996 --> 00:35:48,716 Speaker 2: the schools and the curriculum to make sure people get 744 00:35:48,756 --> 00:35:51,516 Speaker 2: life skills and learn how to lead fulfilling lives. 745 00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:54,956 Speaker 1: As you know, I'd love to see the fundamentals of 746 00:35:54,996 --> 00:35:57,996 Speaker 1: happiness science taught to kids in more schools around the world. 747 00:35:58,756 --> 00:36:01,116 Speaker 1: I mean, we do so much to educate young people 748 00:36:01,196 --> 00:36:04,316 Speaker 1: about math and literature. Why aren't we also teaching young 749 00:36:04,356 --> 00:36:07,076 Speaker 1: people the happiness skills they'll need later in life. Why 750 00:36:07,116 --> 00:36:09,076 Speaker 1: aren't we ensuring that they know more about how to 751 00:36:09,236 --> 00:36:13,796 Speaker 1: prioritize friendships, sleep, gratitude, and doing good for others. If 752 00:36:13,836 --> 00:36:15,876 Speaker 1: you're a teen, or if you know a teen, you 753 00:36:15,916 --> 00:36:18,196 Speaker 1: should check out the new version of my happiness course 754 00:36:18,276 --> 00:36:20,876 Speaker 1: that's just for young people. It's called The Science of 755 00:36:20,956 --> 00:36:23,396 Speaker 1: well Being for Teens, and you can access the course 756 00:36:23,476 --> 00:36:27,236 Speaker 1: for free at Corsera dot org. That's Coursera, the word 757 00:36:27,316 --> 00:36:30,756 Speaker 1: course ra dot org. And again the free class is 758 00:36:30,836 --> 00:36:34,516 Speaker 1: called The Science of well Being for Teens. We're leaving 759 00:36:34,556 --> 00:36:37,236 Speaker 1: the World Happiness Report behind for now, but we still 760 00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:40,156 Speaker 1: have some happiness science treats in store for you. On 761 00:36:40,236 --> 00:36:42,996 Speaker 1: the day the report was released, the United Nations International 762 00:36:43,116 --> 00:36:45,676 Speaker 1: Day of Happiness, I had the good fortune to attend 763 00:36:45,716 --> 00:36:48,876 Speaker 1: the World Happiness Summit in London. Welcome to the WAHASU 764 00:36:49,116 --> 00:36:53,156 Speaker 1: Live version of the Happiness Lab, where I got to 765 00:36:53,236 --> 00:36:55,756 Speaker 1: speak to a medical doctor also happens to be one 766 00:36:55,796 --> 00:36:59,476 Speaker 1: of Europe's top wellness podcasters. To introduce my guest, doctor 767 00:36:59,596 --> 00:37:04,076 Speaker 1: Rungan Chatterjee, the host of the Feel Better, Live More podcast. Today, 768 00:37:04,116 --> 00:37:07,036 Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about why medical doctors need 769 00:37:07,116 --> 00:37:10,276 Speaker 1: to pay even more attention to happiness. Well, how's the audience. 770 00:37:10,316 --> 00:37:12,556 Speaker 1: Are you all interested in medical doctors paying more attention 771 00:37:12,596 --> 00:37:16,036 Speaker 1: to happiness? And you'll get to hear more of my 772 00:37:16,156 --> 00:37:19,916 Speaker 1: awesome conversation with doctor Rungin Chatterjee Next time on the 773 00:37:19,956 --> 00:37:22,356 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie Santos