1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: and I love all things tech and folks. My plan 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: was to present part two of the Founding of General 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Motors for today. I was going to do a full 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: episode about that, and I'm still working on it, but 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: my neighborhood has been hit with some outages in internet service, uh, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: quite a few of them. Unfortunately. That has really impaired 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: my ability to continue my research and dive in and 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: be able to frame out that episode. But I don't 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: want to leave you guys without an episode to listen to. 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: And at the same time, I can't really record something 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: new unless I'm just speaking off the cuff, and let's 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: be honest, none of us want that. So instead and 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: I thought I would bring to you a classic episode. 17 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: This is actually called the Antikithera Update episode, but there's 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: an update to the update that I will talk about 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: once this episode plays through. This was a very special 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: episode where Joe McCormick, who is now one of the 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: co hosts of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, joined me 22 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: for the show. And we talked about this remarkable device 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: from the Greeks of old that was discovered in the 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: early twentieth century and what we had learned from it 25 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: up to that point. But as you will hear when 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: we get to the end, we've learned a little bit more. 27 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: So let's listen to this classic episode and I'll chat 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: with you some more at the end of the episode. 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: On forward thinking, we usually talk about the future or 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: another and um, so I wanted to go in completely 31 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: the opposite direction and talk about the technology of the past. 32 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: And I started thinking, I wonder, what's the oldest computer 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: that we know about? Oh, I got you. So we're 34 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: talking nineteen forty six with ani AC, right, that computer 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: that you would end up programming with lots of plugs 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: and switches, not at all? Wow? No, so wait are you? 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: You're saying it's older than that? Older? Okay, al right, 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: well find how about the ninety two that's the TENNAS 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: soft Berry computer or ABC, which was built at Iowa 40 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: State College which is now university. Obviously, but there was 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: there was a patent dispute actually that was decided in 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: the United States government about whether any AC or the 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: ABC computer were first and ultimately they said that it uh, 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: you could not have anyone to claim they were the 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: ones to invent the computer. That's the first one, right, 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: ABC computer. Okay, alright, N one. We're starting to get 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: a little fuzzy here, but all right, So Conrad Zeus 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: builds the Z three computer. And that was also the 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: same year when the first bomba was built, you know, 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: one of the devices meant to help decrypt German messages. 51 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: That's it, right, all right? Ninety nine George Stimmitts completes 52 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: the complex number calculator, the c n C at Bell 53 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: Telephone Laboratories. We just finished talking about Bell Labs. This 54 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: has got to be it. And even in the first 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: demonstration he used teletype so that he could program this 56 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: remotely over special telephone line, so it was the first 57 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: remote computer as well. So that's it, right, I think 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: you need to think less electricity fine, fine eighty seven 59 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: the Analytical Engine. Charles Babbage, he designs this, never finishes 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: it in his lifetime, but of course that is the 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: device that Ada Lovelace, the Enchantress of Numbers, had possibly 62 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: even created computer programs for algorithms where she envisioned a 63 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: time where you could encode things like music and poetry 64 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: into mathematics. That's it, the analytical engine. Okay, so we're 65 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: gonna talk about that. You're you're about two years off 66 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: to say what not about? Almost? Okay, so what are 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: you talking about? I'm talking about something that is called 68 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: the antique antique antique. Oh, we're gonna have this problem 69 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: the whole time, the anti cithera mess Yes, the anti 70 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: cithera mechanism or also known as the antikathera mechanism. Yeah, 71 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: it all depends on the r which pronunciation you follow. 72 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: Anti Cithera seems to be fairly commonplace. So we're gonna 73 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: go ahead and use that one and probably switch off 74 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: without even thinking about it. All right, I know a 75 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: little bit about this, but I guess before we talk 76 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: about this mechanism, maybe we need to say what the 77 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: heck is anti Cithera. For anyone who is not familiar 78 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: with the the geography of Greece, you may not know 79 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: this is. This refers to a place. Yeah, it's an 80 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: island in the Mediterranean Sea. And if you um, if 81 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: you imagine you're looking at the Mediterranean, it's the small 82 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: island that's between Crete to the south and the Peloponnesian 83 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: Peninsula up to the north, so the mainland of Greece, 84 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: and it's right there in the middle. Um, there's a 85 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: bigger island just called Kythera, and this is a smaller 86 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: one offset from it called Antikythera. So if Antikithera and 87 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: Kithera were to collide, it would just destroy one another. Yeah, 88 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: total positronic reversilation. Yeah, you know, tell them about the twinkie. So, 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, joking aside, Does that mean that this is 90 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: where that mechanism was made? Um? No, probably not. This 91 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: is where the mechanism was discovered. How it got its name? Gotcha? 92 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: So someone was walking around Antikithera one day and they 93 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: stubbed their toe and oh, what's this and found the 94 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: world's oldest computer. No, it's much creepier. Um, okay, So 95 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: the story goes like this. Around the year nineteen hundred, 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: there was a group of sponge divers who were off 97 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: the coast of Anti Cithera and they were doing their 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: diving and guess whatever sponge divers do, they were gathering sponges, 99 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: gathering sponges to wash all their dishes exactly. Um, So 100 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: they were doing their thing but apparently one of the 101 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: divers came up to the surface and he was like, guys, 102 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: there are dead women lying all over the bottom of 103 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: the ocean. There's a bunch of naked dead ladies at 104 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, sounds creepy, but SATs. Yeah. 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: Actually what he was seeing were statues. There were bronze 106 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: and marble statues that were part of the payload of 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: a almost well I guess about exactly to two year 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: old ship wreck of a ship that was a Roman ship, 109 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: a large Roman ship carrying a lot of cargo, much 110 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: of it probably stolen or looted cargo. Right, we're talking 111 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: at an era just around the time when the Romans 112 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: were beginning to uh, let's say, incorporate the Hellenistic societies 113 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: into their empire. Of course, So it had all these 114 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: Greek artifacts on it, yeah, and the luxury items, like 115 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: really expensive stuff in the Greek world. Yeah. And so 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 1: the idea is, we don't know exactly what the ship 117 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: was doing. We think it was probably a ship that 118 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: was returning to Rome from some destination uh in the 119 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: Greek world. And so there are a lot of these 120 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: Greek artifacts, including currency. Uh. They had like you said, statues, 121 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: they had lots of pottery, um, and they had this 122 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: this device, which was well, at first, it was just 123 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: a lump, right, yeah, right, yeah, first, Well, and of 124 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: course it didn't get that much attention early on because 125 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: there was so much other stuff down there in that shipwreck. Right, 126 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: So the people who went into really investigate the shipwreck 127 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: and take a look and see what was going on, 128 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: they didn't necessarily realize that there was something truly special, 129 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: something that was beyond just uh special from an artistic 130 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: merit point of view, but could tell us a lot 131 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: about how much the ancient Greeks knew about craftsmanship, about astronomy, 132 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: about math, all of these things we've become apparent, but 133 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: only a hundred years later, right after the explorer. So 134 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: so it' it's it's forgotten for two thousand years essentially, 135 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: and then for another hundred years we don't really know 136 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: what it is. So it's kind of this lump of 137 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: corroded bronze inside what what used to be a wooden 138 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: box essentially disintegrated. Yeah, so there's like there's one big 139 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: remaining lump, but they're about eighty two fragments in total. Right, 140 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: So one of those fragments. The main fragment has the 141 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: vast majority of the what we know of as the 142 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: inner workings of whatever this device was supposed to be. 143 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: And we know a lot more about now, but don't 144 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: want to ruin the surprise. No, But so basically we 145 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: can say like what it was made of. So what 146 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: they think now is, Okay, this looks like it was 147 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: some kind of collection of bronze gears inside of a 148 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: wooden casing. Yeah. In fact, at first they thought it 149 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: might only be just one gear that somehow was loose 150 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: from something else, and then they realized, no, there's actually 151 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: several gears here, but it's all corroded together. Yeah, it's 152 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: it's sort of like a fused into a big body 153 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: of the ocean, snotball. Yeah exactly. That's very accurate. Um. 154 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: But so if you can imagine, I would call like 155 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: imagine a mid sized dictionary, not like a pocket dictionary, 156 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: but also not that huge one from the library that 157 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: you couldn't see it like a like a large hardback dictionary. Um. 158 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: And it's got a wooden casing, so you could open 159 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: that casing up and then inside you've got this corroded 160 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: mass that uh, that is all this gear formation. Now, 161 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: of course the wooden casing doesn't really remain except in 162 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: rotted fragmentary form um. But that's the basic mechanism we're 163 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: dealing with. And if you start to look at it, 164 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: you would see this one big gear um, but you 165 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: might wonder what does this thing do? Yeah, and beyond that, 166 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean, before we even get to that, like how 167 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: old is this thing? Oh? Yeah, because I mean we 168 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: we figured that the shipwreck happens sometime around eight five 169 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: BC before common eras because mostly because of the dates 170 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: that we found. And I say we, but the explorers 171 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: found on the currency. Yeah, you know, sometimes Joe and 172 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: I we get we get tired of working on stuff 173 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: before thinking, we pop out to the Greek islands and 174 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: then just go well skin diving, yeah, you know. And X, 175 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: by the way, does mark the spot now, But we 176 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: by dating things like the currency, they have sort of 177 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: narrowed the ranged around five b C. But that that 178 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,599 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that's how old the device is. No, 179 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: they think that the device is older than the wreck. 180 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't built like right before that. It's generally dated 181 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: between a hundred and a hundred and fifty b C. 182 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: So it's thought of as a second century BC device, right, 183 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: So so it is an ancient device. Uh, that seems 184 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: to be about how old it is. Uh, we've got 185 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: some ideas of where it may have come from. There 186 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: were some No, we don't we don't have any The 187 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: instruction manual for this device was not anywhere to be ound. 188 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: It was not on the glove compartment of this shipwreck. 189 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: So we can't be absolutely certain. Uh. There's some speculation 190 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: that maybe it was the island of Rhodes, which was 191 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: known for its scholarship and also it's craftsmanship. But there 192 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: are some other options as well that we can talk about. 193 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: But beyond that, Um, you know, we've talked about what 194 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: was made of, we talked about how old it was, 195 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, what what did this thing do? And at 196 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: first it was a real mystery. In fact, for like 197 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: we said, like a century, it was a mystery. We 198 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: just didn't have enough information to be able to determine that. 199 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: We had some wild guests. There were people who made 200 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: some good guess but they didn't know the full extent yet. Um, 201 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: and that they didn't realize initially how awesome this thing was. 202 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: You know, we can make an argument that this is 203 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: the oldest computer, which obviously means that it has to 204 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: do more than just have some inner work, inner working 205 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: gears that move smoothly. It has to do something beyond that, 206 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: because otherwise anything that was reliant on gears and clockwork 207 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: you could call a computer her. But we'll get into 208 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: exactly what it is that this thing did. That kind 209 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: of makes us consider it more of a computer device 210 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: and analog computer than some sort of interesting clockwork. Right. So, um, 211 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: but in general, what we understand it to have been 212 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: able to do, and in fact, we understand a lot 213 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: more about it in very recent years than we had 214 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: for the century leading up to it. Oh well, I'd say, 215 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: now we've basically had a slam dunk in this one. 216 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: Recent recent revelations have shown us, Oh, this is pretty 217 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: much exactly what it is. Yeah, which is phenomenal when 218 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: you think of how badly and repair this thing was. 219 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: But but ultimately what it does is it's it's a 220 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: device that not only tracks celestial events and the movement 221 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: of celestial bodies in relation to our perspective here on Earth, 222 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: it also predicts them. So in other words, you not 223 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: only can you uh, can you keep track of what's 224 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: going on, and it could give you an indication of 225 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: where you would need to look in the sky if 226 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: you wanted to see something like Mars. It also would 227 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: tell you that, oh, on this particular date, you will 228 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: have a full solar eclipse. It's kind of cool. Yeah. 229 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: In other words, an astronomical calculatory UM. And so what 230 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: it would do is it would have a position of 231 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: the Earth and then um by moving the hand crank, 232 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: which which no longer exists, but that's that's we figure. 233 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: It was a hand crank that that provided the the 234 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: kinetic energy to make everything turn. But by moving that 235 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: you could see at the same time, based on a 236 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: projected date in the future, the positions of the Sun, 237 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: of the Moon, um. Probably of the planets we don't 238 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: know the planet gears are missing right now, probably at 239 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: least the plants that the Greeks knew about, which included 240 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: the probably not the planets that probably not the we 241 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: don't think well, not Neptune, Uranus or or if you 242 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: want to be kind, Pluto. They they had identified as 243 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: far out as Saturn. Now, if in fact we were 244 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: to find evidence that it included these other planets as well, 245 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: that as far as we know, they didn't know about. 246 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Then that would make the third part of our conversation 247 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: to get a little more interesting. It also had yeah, 248 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: as you said, an eclipse prediction dial uh and that's 249 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: really cool. Uh. And it also predicted cultural events, so yeah, 250 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: that's true, like the Olympiad, right, because you had a 251 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: schedule of when that would take place, and so by 252 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: plotting it against this device and actually inscribing it on 253 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: the device, you could in a factor then you could 254 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: see what the what the celestial events were going to 255 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: be at a planned future event that way, which is 256 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: kind of handy. Um. But we'll talk specifically. We need 257 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: to really get into the nitty gritty of how this 258 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: is possible, and then we'll conclude at the end talking 259 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: about how we know all of this stuff, because, as 260 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna learn, it's really complicated figure out how a 261 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: device works if you can't actually visualize all the gears 262 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: when you first get hold of it. Joe and I 263 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: will have more to say about the Antikithera mechanism in 264 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: just a moment, but first let's take a quick break. 265 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: All right, we're back, so let's talk about how this 266 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: device actually tracked celestial events. Okay, so we we know 267 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: they're all these gears. There's a hand cranky turn. It 268 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: moves things forwards that you can look at what the 269 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: celestial conditions are on any given date, or you can 270 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: even advance it so that you can look for a 271 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: specific celestial event. Let's say you're looking specifically for when 272 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: is the next eclipse going to occur? So you're not 273 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: looking to see what the celestial scott what the sky 274 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: is going to look like, um, three months from now, 275 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: you just want to know when the next eclipse is. 276 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: You could advance the handle from your date and keep 277 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: doing it until you saw the eclipse information come up, 278 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: and then compare that see what the date is on 279 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: the other part of the indicator. We'll talk about all 280 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: the different dials to be indicated by a dial, so 281 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: it's like it's like an analog clock face. You would 282 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: be spinning around a point to let you know when 283 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: this is coming exactly, and then you could say, oh, 284 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: all right, so the next eclipse is in you know, 285 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, three months and two weeks from now or whatever, 286 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: and uh So there's a lot of different ways you 287 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: could use this. Well, um, there were about thirty thirty 288 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: one gears that we know of, probably at least at 289 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: least more or at least thirty probably more, though it's 290 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: I think hypothesized that there were more to deal with 291 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: the movement of the planets that that's just lost. And 292 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's not a surprise because again, like I said, 293 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: when we call it bad repair, I mean you're you 294 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: think about this. This is like essentially the imagine a 295 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: clock that's been fused into one piece. I mean an 296 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: old style gear clock fused into one piece. That's kind 297 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: of and it's it's opaque, so you can't see these 298 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: gears that are on the inside just with the naked eye. 299 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: But we'll get into how we figured more about this 300 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: in a little bit. But so you had all these 301 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: different dials that would mark different of sense uh and 302 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: different time spans. Right, So you would have a dial 303 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: that would be set up for for just regular keeping 304 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: of of a calendar year, but there were also dials 305 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: that were more attuned to specific celestial cycles. So for example, 306 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: there might be a nineteen year cycle that's represented by 307 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: one dial. Another one had I think a seventy five 308 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: year dial, And these dials were to refer to things 309 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: that patterns that would repeat once you hit those time frames, 310 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: so like every nineteen years, this one set of pattern 311 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: would repeat itself. So that's why they have these different 312 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: dials to indicate exactly what's happening at exactly what time. Uh. 313 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: What I loved was the idea that there was one 314 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: gear specifically devoted to showing the phase of the moon, 315 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: So not only would you see the position of the 316 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: moon on any given date, but you would also see 317 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: what phase it was in, whether it was waxing or waning, 318 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: a new moon, full moon, what ever. And and uh, 319 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: I really thought that was very clever. So yeah, you 320 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: essentially either either refer to the dates and look at 321 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: the celestial events to compare the two, or you would 322 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: said it so that you would look at a specific 323 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: configuration of the celestial body and then look at what 324 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: date corresponded to it. It's um kind of amazing to 325 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: imagine the complex planning and craftsmanship that went into a 326 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: machine like this, because, um, when you start thinking about it, Okay, 327 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: say somebody set you down and told you to try 328 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: to build something like this, and you had you know 329 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: it was open book test, you knew what time frame 330 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: all these celestial events would occur in how would you 331 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, I mean God, so you would hit 332 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: some kind of figure out the relationships between the sizes 333 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: of gears um and the way they would interlock to 334 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: create fractional relationships between the movements of all the different 335 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: bodies at the same time. And keep in mind that 336 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: if this thing is reflecting, say, planets and stuff like that, well, 337 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: from a geocentric point of view, the movement of the 338 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: planets is not just a simple circle, right, I mean 339 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: you see them, they persiss and then they go backwards, 340 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: and the thing exactly so if you and there's a 341 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: fellow named Michael T. Wright who built a replica of 342 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: this device, and we'll talk more about him probably in 343 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: a bit, but he there's a great video that demonstrates 344 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: him using this machine to show the movement of these 345 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: different elements and sometimes you see them moving kind of 346 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: backward compared to other elements, and you think, wow, the 347 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: gears have to account for that too. The gears have 348 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: to be able to do very complex movements of these uh, 349 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: these these arms that are on these dials in order 350 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: to reflect what is really happening. And while the model 351 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: itself uh does depict a geocentric view of celestial bodies. 352 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: We can't be sure that the person who built it 353 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: necessarily ascribed necessarily ascribed to a geocentric philosophy. Oh, that's 354 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: certainly true because for the devices function, I mean it was, 355 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: it was functionally geocentric, right, because we're perving from exactly 356 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: even if the person who made it actually thought the 357 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: Earth went around the Sun, it would still look the 358 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: same pretty much, because if you're reflecting how the world, 359 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: how the how the celestial you know, elements look compared 360 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: to being on the Earth, it makes no sense to 361 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: make it anything other than geocentric. So the heliocentric theories 362 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: had been placed ahead of when we think this device 363 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: was made. So it's possible we don't know, because there 364 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: were still people who who ascribed to a geocentric worldview. 365 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: I'd probably say that was dominant, Yeah, because because it 366 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: was similar to what we would see centuries later, where 367 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: to propose such a thing as a helos heliocentric review 368 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: view would mean that you might suffer a little bit 369 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: of let's say, you might get ostracized with extreme prejudice 370 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: that people didn't like here in that Yeah, So anyway. 371 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: You know, it does look like it was going to 372 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: show you not only the Sun and Moon's movements, which 373 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: is already complex enough because they don't move at the 374 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: same you know rate, or you know they change positions, 375 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: uh differently relative to one another. Then to throw in 376 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: the other planets makes that or the plants that the 377 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: Greeks knew about, makes it even more complex. So here's 378 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: the question, does this count as a computer? I would 379 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: say absolutely. I would say so too, And I've got 380 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: a little argument here. Tell me what you think about 381 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: so um, I'd say the basic definition of a computer. 382 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: A lot of times it's included that it's electronic. But 383 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: let's take that part out and say, well, whether or 384 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: not it's electronic. Um, A computers like an interactive machine 385 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: that can and these words often come up, store, retrieve, 386 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: and process data. That's fair. Um. So it's like input, 387 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: output and processing and storage. Yeah. I always think of 388 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: it as something that can can take input, put it 389 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: through some form of algorithm, meaning a set of rules, 390 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: and then give you output on the other side. And 391 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: it's predictable. It's going to do that the same way, 392 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: like assuming that you put in the same input and 393 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: you're running it through the same algorithm, you're always going 394 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: to get the same output. Okay, so both definitions work 395 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: very well together. Yeah, I'd say the biggest distinction is 396 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: that today's computer as we think of as being general use. 397 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: So you you have hardware that can compute, but you've 398 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: also got software to boss the hardware around, so it 399 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: can tell it to compute in different ways. Right, So 400 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: in that way, you can have a single machine allow 401 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: you to do Excel spreadsheets or play you know, the 402 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: first person shooter game. Right, But obviously without electronics, this 403 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: this ancient computer doesn't have software. It just has hardware. 404 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: Or it's like thinking about a computer that can only 405 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: run one program, which is not that difficult to imagine. 406 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you think of calculators as 407 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: a subset of computers, calculators like your basic calculator. I'm 408 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: not talking about your super crazy calculators that have apps 409 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: on them and everything, but your basic calculator does basic 410 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: calculator functions. It's you know, again, taking that input, putting 411 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: it through an algorithm, some sort of mathematical process, and 412 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: you get an output similar to this device. Yeah, so 413 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: this device, it's like a computer that only has one job, 414 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: but within that job, I think it's definitely worth saying 415 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: it's a computer because its stores data. So the relationships 416 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: between the astronomical pathways are represented by the mechanical math 417 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: that's done between the teeth and the gears, so like 418 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: the gear sizes themselves are sort of storing that data. 419 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: Sure um, and then it takes input. You turn the 420 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: hand crank to give it the input of the date 421 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: you want to calculate, and then it gives you output 422 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: it's got. The dials reflect the computed values of the 423 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: of what you're looking for, and even as I have 424 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: said before, you could do it the other way, where 425 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: you keep turning the dial until you get the configuration 426 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: you were interested in and then you look at the date. 427 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: So it works in either sense, and uh, pretty phenomenal. 428 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: I mean, it's when you think about how precise you 429 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: have to be to make sure you get this, and 430 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: not only that, but just the huge amount of information 431 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: you have to have at your disposal to even start 432 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: in the craftsmanship of this thing. Because the Greeks had 433 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot of information about astronomy, some of it they 434 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: got from the Babylonians. So the Babylonians were known as 435 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: very much interested in astronomy. The Greeks were as well, 436 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: and so they had to have had all this observation 437 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: data that they had, the things that they had observed 438 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: about the movement of celestial objects in the sky and 439 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: how those patterns would arise in order for them to 440 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: plan that out into a mechanical device. And that, to 441 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: me is really amazing because you're not talking about, oh, 442 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: you know, every four weeks, this one event happens. Now, 443 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: some of these cycles, like I said, are incredibly long. 444 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: You had a nineteen year cycle, you had a seventy 445 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: six year cycle, you had a fifty four year cycle. 446 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: All of these were taken into account to explain the 447 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: movement of celestial objects in various ways, whether it's a 448 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse, or that you get 449 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: both a lunar and a solar eclipse within a certain 450 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: amount of time, not to mention the movement of the 451 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: other planets. That's a lot of information that you have 452 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: to have compiled before you ever cut into a sheet 453 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: of bronze. Uh. Yes, it certainly is. And and even 454 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: harder is imagining how you would begin to compute that data. Yeah, 455 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean nobody. Um, well, actually this is a good question. Um, 456 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: had anybody ever made anything like this before? Obviously we 457 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 1: don't know for sure, right, well, we don't have evidence 458 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: this is the earliest existing device. In fact, we don't 459 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: have any other devices to point to. H And let's 460 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: be clear, when we're calling it the earliest known computer 461 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean we think that there's nothing that 462 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: like this that could have come before. It just means 463 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: the it's the earliest one that we have, so and 464 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: we don't have any others. It's not like there are 465 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, twenty other examples of this. In fact, if 466 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: you want to look at for another object that's as 467 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: complex as this one, you have to go about fifteen 468 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: hundred years further into the early Renaissance and look at 469 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: the Middle East, China, and Europe for devices that start 470 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 1: to equal this level of complexity. However, these historians of 471 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: mechanical engineering, they say this kind of stuff doesn't show 472 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: up until late medieval clockwork. It's like, yeah, at the earliest. Yeah. 473 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: So when you take that into account, you think, well, 474 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, is this is this an anomaly? Is it 475 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: a one Offit some mad genius come up with us. 476 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: But if you if you were to actually carefully examine 477 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: those gears and we'll more about how people have done 478 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: that over the last decade or so, if you were 479 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: to very carefully examine them, you would see that they 480 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: appear to have been made flawlessly, like there were no mistakes. Uh. 481 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: You know a lot of experts have said that if 482 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: you were to build, say a clock, and it's your 483 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: first clock, it may be a functional clock, but if 484 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: you were to look at the clockwork, you might see 485 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: where there were mistakes that were made and then corrected 486 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: for later on. There No, there's no evidence of that 487 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: in this device, which suggests that whoever built it had 488 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: done it at least a few times before to perfect 489 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: the whole process before building another one. Yeah, and combined 490 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: with the fact that this thing is just so smart 491 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: that it suggests it was probably not the only one 492 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: of its kind. It probably came from a line of 493 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: similar devices, maybe of advancing complexity. And you might think, well, 494 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: if this is the case where the heck is everything 495 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: else and well, some of it could just be lost 496 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: or destroyed. And also being made out of bronze means 497 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: that it's a valuable resource which occasionally for other purposes, 498 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: like I don't know, war, you would melt down so 499 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: that you could use it for other stuff. Yeah, I 500 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: mean think about we're talking about the first and second 501 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: century b C. In the Hellenistic world. I mean it's 502 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: it's a time when stuff might have gotten grabbed and 503 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: taken to another place, melted down, or just lost, just 504 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 1: like just like this one was lost. There's a lot 505 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: of stuff going on if you look at h and 506 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: we should mention this stuff you missed in history class. 507 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: Another sister podcast they did an episode on this same topic. 508 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: Fantastic episode, highly recommended. You should definitely go listen to it. 509 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: Um But one of the things they pointed out was 510 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: that if you look at bronze statues from that era, 511 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: they're very very few of them, and I think like 512 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: nine out of ten came from shipwrecks because the ones 513 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: that were left on land, more frequently than not had 514 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: been melted down for other purposes. So it's it's one 515 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: of those There was not necessarily a sense of permanency 516 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: in the time of the world. Okay, so we don't 517 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: have like, in terms of archaeology, another device like this 518 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: from the time, Has anybody ever described a device like 519 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: this from the time. Uh, that's a good question. Do 520 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: you have any actual information on that, because when I 521 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: was looking forward, I was it seemed to me at 522 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: the time that everyone was absolutely shocked by this device, 523 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: because it didn't seem to have any kind of shock, 524 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: shocked to the point where they were wondering if it 525 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: was perhaps a hoax, that maybe someone had planted this 526 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: thing and it was a fake. But it may be 527 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: that there are sources I'm I'm aware of. Do you 528 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: know any Well, I think there are ancient descriptions of 529 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: ore ries. Okay, so those are wouldn't be exactly like this, 530 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: but sort of ancient models of the movement of the 531 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: Planet's interesting. So yeah, and of course we do know 532 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: that there were philosophers who had described, uh, the very 533 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: motions that this device enacted. That that you they were 534 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: they were just describing it for scholarly purposes, and this 535 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: device would show that in action if you were to 536 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: move the handle. Well, here's an interesting question. Who built 537 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: this thing? Yeah? Where did it come from? We don't 538 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: We don't know, is the short answer. We have some suspicions. Uh, 539 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: sometimes the name Archimedes gets thrown around there. Yeah, so 540 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: one clue is just that Archimedes he was around, you know, 541 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: a century before this, and he was a genius inventor 542 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: and uh or at least we assume. So some of 543 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: his inventions we cannot actually be certain were ever built. 544 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: But sure, come on, he built a death ray, just 545 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: just a death ray, okay, probably and a giant a 546 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: giant arm that would upset besieging ships. I want to believe, 547 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: I understand. Okay, So, uh, well, is that the only 548 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: evidence that it might have been our Chimedes all No, Archimedes, 549 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: as you might remember, was from he lived in Syracuse 550 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: in the which is unfortunate. Yeah, well, unfortunate for our comedies. 551 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: Uh he lived in Syracuse. And an interesting fact about 552 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: the device that we discovered later is that, Okay, so 553 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: the device has inscriptions all over it, very faint inscriptions, 554 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: and they're hard to read because of all the corrosion 555 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: from the thousands of years. But what they discovered was, oh, okay, 556 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: actually we can make out some of these with some 557 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: of this imaging we're about to talk about in the 558 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: next section. And it's in coin a Greek. So that 559 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: was sort of like coin a Greek was the lingua 560 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: franca of the Hellenistic world. You know, people spoke it 561 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: all over the place. But the calendar that was represented 562 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: on here reflected the kind of calendar that would be 563 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: used in the Ionian area, which would include Syracuse. Right, 564 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: So that that gives at least some again circumstantial evidence 565 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: that perhaps our comedies could have been involved in this. 566 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: Then I again, our comedies probably died too early to 567 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: have made this particular device due to an over zealous soldier. 568 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: We know he died in hink to twelve BC and 569 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: the device was made in the probably sometimes between. So yeah, 570 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: that does put some he died too early to have 571 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: personally made it, right, Maybe he made an earlier one. Yeah, 572 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: And that's one idea is that it could have come 573 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: out of a sort of a Syracuse based school of 574 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: our comedies maybe. And again, the Island of Rhodes is 575 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: another example that people have have presented saying that they 576 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: were very much on that island. There was a scholarly 577 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: center that was devoted to astronomy, and that they also 578 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: had craftsmen who worked in clockwork type devices. So it's 579 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: possible that it could have originated from that area. We 580 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: just we don't know. There's some clues there, but we 581 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: don't know for sure. Yeah. Another name I just want 582 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: to mention real quick that gets brought up is Hipparcos. 583 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: Hipparcos Hippocus of of Nicia. And he was a Greek 584 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: astronomer um and geographer, and he did the maths. He 585 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: was a smart guy trigonometry right, yeah, he he was 586 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 1: also uh, he wasn't Hippocrates, but anyway, he he. He 587 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: also was known for describing the movements of the sun 588 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: in the moon right and uh. And some indications that 589 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: it maybe could have had something to do with him, 590 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: or that the astronomical theories that are reflected in this, 591 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: including like the movement of the moon, reflects his thoughts 592 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: about the movement. So it may not be that he 593 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: had a direct hand in it, but that perhaps a 594 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: student or someone familiar with his work took the theory 595 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: and put it into a physical object. Okay, but I 596 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: have another theory about who created it. Yeah, I have 597 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: a feeling. I know what you're gonna say, but hit 598 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: me with it, buddy. Okay, Well, it goes like this, 599 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: this mechanism is way too advanced to have been built 600 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: by human beings at the time. Obviously it was built 601 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: by a aliens be time traveler see transdimensional reptilians. Right, 602 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: so um or or sorry d um, like a super 603 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: advanced secret human society that we don't know about, like Atlantis, 604 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: but we do know about them, we don't think they exist, 605 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,439 Speaker 1: all right? So all right, And Joe, I know you're 606 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: you're presenting this as an in tongue in cheek because 607 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: you and I share a common opinion on this about 608 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: how it's absolutely ridiculous nonsense to assume this. Yeah, for 609 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: one thing, it it really it really says a lot 610 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: about the cynicism of people when it comes to the 611 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: creativity of human beings and ingenuity and our ability to 612 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: process complex thoughts and bring them into reality, you know, 613 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's the same our men that no, the Pyramids, 614 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: no human could have built those. Actually thousands of humans 615 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: built those. Tens of thousands of humans built those. Yeah, 616 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: it's um. It's not like somebody in ancient Greece building 617 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 1: a warp drive, right, It's it's somebody who was building 618 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: something that was totally available to someone with the technology 619 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: of the time. All they had to be was really 620 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: really smart, right, Yeah. They We know that the astronomical 621 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: knowledge was there, you know, the scholarship was there. We 622 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: know that the bronze working was there. We know that 623 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: people there were craftsmen who generally it wasn't as good 624 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: as this, right, but there were craftsmen who could create 625 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: incredible works. A lot of bronze U Now, a lot 626 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: of those even't survived because of again the fact that 627 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: people would melt stuff down. But the ones that have 628 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: survived have shown that there's you know, there has there 629 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: was a level of artistry there. Yeah, it's I think 630 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: the bottom line is it's quite exceptional for its time, 631 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: but it's not unthinkable. And so we are discounting the 632 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: uh the alien slash time travel or slash reptilian, so 633 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: whatever I mean. If it was from aliens, you'd think that, 634 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, it would reflect a little more complete astronomical knowledge. 635 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: You might be electronic or something. Also, it wouldn't be geocentric. 636 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: Really talked about it, you know, it's functionally geocentric, even 637 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: though the person who made it might have been right, 638 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: But why would an alien bother to make something from 639 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: Earth's perspective when oh, yeah, they could make an oory 640 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 1: from the outside right, including the Earth revolving around the Sun. Yeah, 641 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,479 Speaker 1: why would they do? Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't 642 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: make sense to me, not knowing about planets past Saturn. 643 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they just thought those were those were 644 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: not really high up on the list. Yeah, you don't wanna, 645 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: you don't want to visit those. Yeah, So I think 646 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: we can discount the whole alien hypothesis. So we've got 647 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: more we want to talk about exactly. We want to 648 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: we want to cover how it is that we actually 649 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,399 Speaker 1: know this stuff. But before we get into that, let's 650 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: take another quick break and thank our sponsor. So, like 651 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: I said earlier, Trunk Club is our sponsor. I never 652 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: thought I'd be the kind of guy to say, uh, 653 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: my stylist picked this out for me, But now I'm 654 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: that guy, and it actually is pretty cool. I mean, 655 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: the clothing that I have from Trunk Club really is 656 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: stylish and it looks good on me and people notice, 657 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: and it's one of those things that I don't know 658 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: that I would have the patients or the eye for 659 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: picking it out myself. So it's one of those really 660 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: useful services. And like I said, they chip the trunk 661 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 1: of clothes to you after you've spoken with the stylist. 662 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: Given an idea of what you like and the sort 663 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: of thing you're going for, you can actually pick what 664 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: sort of look you want, and the stylist will go 665 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,280 Speaker 1: and find clothing that fits you, that fits that look, 666 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: send it to you. You can try it on, figure 667 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: out what you want to keep, what you don't want 668 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,439 Speaker 1: to keep, send everything back that you don't want, keep 669 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: the stuff you do want. It's just a really cool service, 670 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: So go to www dot trunk club dot com and 671 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: check that out. All right, So we have discussed what 672 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: it was, we discussed how it worked. How do we 673 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: know that it did this thing? I mean, you know, 674 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: you're talking about a giant hunk of corroded bronze. How 675 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: could you possibly ever figure out what this thing actually did? 676 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: As we already mentioned, people originally did not know. They 677 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: had no idea what this hunk was capable of. For 678 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: a century, we really didn't know. We had some people 679 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: make some guesses occasionally, but for the most part, it 680 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: wasn't until we were able to use something far more 681 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: sophisticated than just our own eyeballs to look at it. 682 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: We had to use X rays, and with the X rays. Initially, 683 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: the X rays showed that there were lots of gears 684 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: inside this hunk of corroded bronze, and that they were 685 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: connected in some way. But those early X rays were 686 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: not perfect. Mostly they due to the fact that you 687 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: couldn't tell depth with it, so you couldn't see how 688 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: the gears were connected. It was like a massive gears, 689 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: but you weren't sure where where they were in relation 690 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: to one another. Um. But enter something called three D 691 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: X ray. Yeah, where you starized homography. Yeah you started, yes, 692 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: scanning it from all different angles using different approaches. Did 693 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: you did you come across the powerful X ray machines 694 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: called blade Runner? I didn't. Yeah, yeah, so blade Runner 695 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: X ray machines. A sorry. They used lots of different 696 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: X ray machines throughout the study of this device. As 697 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: we began to learn that this was far more important 698 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: from a historical perspective than anyone had had thought leading 699 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: up to this. I mean everyone was thinking that these 700 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: other artifacts were really important and this other thing was 701 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: a curiosity. But as we learned more about it, we realized, WHOA, 702 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: this thing is amazing. Uh. Well, the the various X 703 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: ray devices we use showed more of the relation of 704 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: all these different gears, so we got to see how 705 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: they were laid out inside this hunk of corroded bronze. 706 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: But the blade Runner device, all right, So it was 707 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: an X ray machine that was designed to look for 708 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: tiny cracks in turbine blades. That's what the original design 709 00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: of these machines was for, and to tell whether or 710 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: not you're replicant. Also to tell whether Yeah, I would 711 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: ask you, if a turtle is on its back, what 712 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: do you do? Why doesn't mechanism turn the turtle over? Yeah? 713 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: So anyway, it would look for these tiny It was 714 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: designed so that you could detect the tiniest of cracks 715 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: and turbine blades, so that you could do maintenance before 716 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 1: a catastrophic failure. They used it to look at this device, 717 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: the anti antikythera device. We keep avoiding saying it so 718 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: that I don't fall over myself. Let's say it three 719 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: times together, Jonathan, Okay, so that's fantastic, all right, Now 720 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: you have to say it backwards. No, um, So the 721 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: antikythera device, the blade Runner thing, it looks at it 722 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,399 Speaker 1: and it actually is able to see because it has 723 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: such precise measurements. It's able to to to distinguish what 724 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,359 Speaker 1: the tiny shallow carvings are on those dials. That's how 725 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: we were able to read the word inscription. The inscriptions, yeah, 726 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: because some of them were just verry faded already, even 727 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: before you talk about the corrosion effort in there or 728 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: element in there, i should say, and the blade runner 729 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: X rays were able to measure these very tiny changes 730 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: in the surface of these different dials, and that's how 731 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 1: we were able to see what the writing was and 732 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: thus able to really um translated and figure out what 733 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: this thing actually did. And that's how people once they 734 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: started reading it, Once they started being able to read 735 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: the writing, it became clear that this was a far 736 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: more sophisticated device than what what predecessors were thinking. Even 737 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: the earliest guesses were things that probably can predict solar 738 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: and lunar movements, or maybe it's some form of calendar, 739 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: but it no one was really aware of how sophisticated 740 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: it was until we were able to take this closer look. 741 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: And I think it's pretty phenomenal what we've learned about 742 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: it so far, Like those shallow engravings have told us 743 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: pretty much everything we need to know about its basic function, 744 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: and that's how we're able to draw some conclusions and 745 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: clear the conclusions that lad Michael t right to build 746 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: his replica of the device to the point where he's 747 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: got a working replica. Uh it as far as we 748 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: can tell, it's as accurate to the original as we 749 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: can possibly get. Yeah, you should look this up on 750 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: YouTube and see it, because it's not just a model, 751 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: it is a working replica. He built the machine. He 752 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,760 Speaker 1: used very similar methods as to what the ancient Greeks 753 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: would have. He used the same sort of dimension of gears. Uh. 754 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: You know, keeping in mind that we don't he's working 755 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: from an incomplete model. Even with our very very sophisticated 756 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: techniques these days, you can't see what's not there, right, 757 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: there's still some missing pieces that we don't really have. 758 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: You know, he was able to recreate it based upon 759 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: what we think the device was meant to do and 760 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: his works and then the videos are amazing. When you 761 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: watch the just the minute movements of each of these 762 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: pieces in relation to one another and think of how 763 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: complex this is, it's mind blowing. It's well, and it's 764 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: also it's a it's a gorgeous device. You know, it's 765 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 1: just it's a beautiful device. You would look at and 766 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: you might think Originally, if you were just a glance 767 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: at it, you might think it was either a really 768 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: weird clock or maybe some sort of navigational equipment for 769 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 1: like a ship or something, just because you've got bronze 770 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: and wood there. But um, yeah, once you get a 771 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: deeper understanding of what it is, it's pretty pretty nifty. 772 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,720 Speaker 1: I think the replica was made with brass instead of products. 773 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,320 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think it was brass instead 774 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: of bronze. So yeah, even more ship like then with 775 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: the brass and would combination. Yeah. Uh. There's recent scholarship 776 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: going on with a project called the Anti Kit through 777 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,280 Speaker 1: a Mechanism research project that's a collaborative project between lots 778 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: of different research organizations and individuals. Yeah, there's a mathematician 779 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 1: named Tony Freethe and uh he's been using imaging technology 780 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of questions that remain about 781 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: the mechanism. Yeah. They the group. The research group was 782 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: founded in two thousand five and has been extremely active. 783 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: They have sponsored several museum exhibitions throughout the world. I 784 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: think right now as the record of this podcast. At 785 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: least some of the device is on display in uh 786 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: in a museum in Athens, but I believe that ends 787 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: in January. Yeah, it's the it's an exhibition called the 788 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: Antikittheras Shipwreck, the ship, the treasures and the mechanism, and 789 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: it's at the National Archaeological Museum in Athens, Greece. YEA. 790 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: And so that of course has more than than the 791 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: device itself. It also has examples of the other stuff 792 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: that was found at shipwreck, which, by the way, people 793 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: have gone back to that shipwreck and found more things 794 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: around it since that initial discovery. UM, and so there's there. 795 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: There's also been a lot of symposia that they've held. 796 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: They've had a lot of gatherings where they they combine 797 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: research and they published that research. There's lots of information 798 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: on their website about the device and the circumstances around 799 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: its discovery and just the process of discovery as we 800 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: used more and more sophisticated techniques to examine it, and 801 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,320 Speaker 1: it's really a great resource. I highly recommend visiting that website. 802 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: I'll link to that on our Facebook page and Twitter 803 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: handle so you guys can see it. Because it's pretty 804 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: neat stuff. I mean, it's um, you know, I really 805 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: enjoyed reading about the process they went through as they 806 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: would learn more and more, and of course that hasn't finished. 807 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: In fact, there's there's one thing, one question besides who 808 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: built it, that we don't know the answer to yet, 809 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: which is why did they build it? Like? Why is it? 810 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: Was it? What? What was the in purpose? Was it 811 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,240 Speaker 1: a scholarly tool? Was it so that they could uh create, 812 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, specifically plan out events to coincide with celestial events, 813 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: so that perhaps it was a political tool. You know, 814 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: maybe if if an eclipse is seen as a bad omen, 815 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: you may want to avoid planning some big event around 816 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: an eclipse just so that people don't think that the 817 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: event itself is cursed. I mean, it's I'm sure in 818 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: the ancient world you could probably get some amount of 819 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: power just by being able to accurately predict eclipses. Yeah, yeah, 820 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: And that's another possibility. It could just be religious power 821 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: or political power. We don't know, And it's possible that 822 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: as much as we can learn about this device, maybe 823 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 1: we never really figure out with any degree of certainty 824 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: who built it or why it was built. In fact, 825 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: I'd be amazed if we ever are able to figure 826 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: out who built it. That would be phenomenal to me. 827 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 1: Unless someone's like, oh, look here there's an inscription on 828 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: the bottom Johan from Sweden. What that would be a 829 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,800 Speaker 1: big upset, But not that I think that would ever happen. 830 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 1: But um, yeah, it was want to float. Another possibility steampunks, right, 831 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 1: so steampunk cost players. Yeah, but I'm thinking that it 832 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,799 Speaker 1: was a steampunk convention. A certain doctor showed up at 833 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: it accidentally ended up grabbing this device, and on a 834 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: further adventure, maybe three episodes down the line, ended up 835 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 1: accidentally dunking it into the ocean off the coast degrease. 836 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. Um explains everything. Uh did you 837 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: see the the lego? Really cool? Now? This wasn't We 838 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,760 Speaker 1: probably might not want to call it a replica because 839 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: it's not trying to copy the form of the original, 840 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: just the function, right, And even the function it was 841 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: I think a limited part of it because it was 842 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: really showing things like eclipses in the Uh, in the 843 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: lego version, I don't think it necessarily showed all the 844 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 1: movements that the antikithera device showed because I was when 845 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: I watched the video is that this is really clever 846 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: because it would show you the the date and uh 847 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,280 Speaker 1: when the next eclipse would occur, whether it was solar 848 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: or Luna or both. But it didn't um both as 849 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 1: in like the region of time when both would occur, 850 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: not both occurring at the same time, UM necessarily. But 851 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: the the it didn't tell you things. It didn't tell 852 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: you things like the movement of the planets as far 853 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: as I could tell. So it was it had a 854 00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: limited set of functions that the anti killer device actually did. 855 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 1: But it was still really cool to watch. It was 856 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: really cool. Let me tell you, I'm going to invent 857 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: a device and it's gonna tell you it'll predict when 858 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 1: the Sun passes in front of the moon. That will 859 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: be a bad day. I'm gonna make sure I stay 860 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,120 Speaker 1: indoors that day. What is that called? That's called I 861 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: think that's I think that's called Well, it doesn't really 862 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: matter because we're in it's essentially called boy, it's sure 863 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,800 Speaker 1: as vaporized outside today, isn't it. Yeah, I know that 864 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: would not not go over. Well. We have a little 865 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: bit more to say. In that classic episode of the 866 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: Antikithera mechanism. But first, let's take another quick break. Now, 867 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: when we recorded this episode, the belief was that the 868 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 1: device dates from around one b C E. The researchers 869 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: now believe that it's actually even older, dating from two 870 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: oh five b c E. Now, the researchers came to 871 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: this conclusion once they determined that the anti Cithera mechanism 872 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,480 Speaker 1: was time to begin with events starting in two oh 873 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 1: five b C and not just the year. They figured 874 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: out that the whole device worked best if we use 875 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: May twelve, two oh five b c E as the 876 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,279 Speaker 1: starting date as the first full moon of May. By 877 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 1: the way, now, the researchers Christianne C. Carmen and James 878 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: Evans used a system that looked at different possible starting 879 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 1: dates and they eliminated the ones that didn't seem to 880 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: fit the mechanisms operation. The date of May twelve, two 881 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,319 Speaker 1: oh five b C was the one that was left up. 882 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: So why is this new information so cool? Well, for 883 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 1: one thing, it tells us that the person who designed 884 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 1: the mechanism wasn't relying on Greek trigonometry, which didn't exist 885 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: in two oh five b C. Instead, this brilliant inventor 886 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: was using Babylonian arithmetic to determine the dates of various 887 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,120 Speaker 1: celestial events. Now it also puts the device's creation closer 888 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: to the time of our comedes, who remember died into 889 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,280 Speaker 1: twelve BC. Now I felt all this information was really 890 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: interesting and merited a revisit to our Antikythera device. I 891 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that classic episode. I told you I 892 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,839 Speaker 1: would have a little bit of an update, and I 893 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: do so. Researchers at University College London's Anti Cithera research 894 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: team have the well they believe that they have created 895 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: a replica, computer simulation replica of the gear works of 896 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:03,320 Speaker 1: the anti Cithera mechanism. They studied the mechanism, the surviving 897 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:08,800 Speaker 1: parts thoroughly. They looked at what we believe it was 898 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,359 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to do, and then they kind 899 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: of reverse engineered that to determine the sort of gears 900 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,880 Speaker 1: that would have been necessary in order to accomplish what 901 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: this device was supposed to do, and that has resulted 902 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: in this computer simulation model of it. It's really fascinating 903 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 1: stuff and if they are correct with their hypotheses, it 904 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: really points out not just how ingenious the engineers were 905 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 1: to create such a thing, but obviously how accurate the 906 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,880 Speaker 1: observations had to be in order for this to even 907 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,279 Speaker 1: be a starting point in the first place, Keeping in 908 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,399 Speaker 1: mind the accuracy of those observations were also hinged upon 909 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: the incorrect belief that the Earth was the center of 910 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: the solar system. So that does that does change things 911 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,799 Speaker 1: a little bit, I would argue, But really a fascinating development. 912 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,880 Speaker 1: And if you're interested, you can go and seek out 913 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: the reports from the University College London's and Tokithera research team. 914 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: They have written about it extensively. There are a lot 915 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,400 Speaker 1: of pieces about the cosmos according to the ancient Greeks 916 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 1: that really gives us some insight into the thought process 917 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,919 Speaker 1: at the time. So I highly recommend you check that out. 918 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:36,399 Speaker 1: I will have that second part of the General Motors 919 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: founding up very soon. I apologize for its delay. If 920 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: it had not been for some unfortunate internet outages in 921 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,560 Speaker 1: my neighborhood, I would have had that up already. But 922 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,239 Speaker 1: such is the way of things. And uh, and while 923 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 1: I know a lot of stuff, I do not magically 924 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,759 Speaker 1: have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that happened in the 925 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: early nine hundreds with general motors. I just haven't filled 926 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,399 Speaker 1: out that part of my brain yet, but we're getting there. 927 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,120 Speaker 1: If you have any suggestions for topics I should tackle 928 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,719 Speaker 1: in future episodes of tech Stuff, reach out to me 929 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: and let me know. The best way to do that 930 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 1: is over on Twitter. The handle is tech stuff H 931 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: s W and I'll talk to you again really soon. 932 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more 933 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,760 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, 934 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.