Speaker 1: What's that at the bed? It's spooky, I'm jooky. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's dead. It's coming, it's way Wait a minute, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gostad.
Speaker 2: Hyras dress.
Speaker 1: Please, hey boo, it's me raz I got to talk
Speaker 1: again to my friend Katrina Widman. It is her fourth
Speaker 1: appearance on the show. She of course hosts the TV
Speaker 1: show Portals to Hell with Jack Osborne. The new season
Speaker 1: is going to be premiering this weekend, the ninth of April,
Speaker 1: and she's gonna tell us all about that in this
Speaker 1: two parter conversation. But you also might know her from
Speaker 1: Paranormal Stay. She was also on Paranormal Lockdown. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's a star in the paranormal TV world and she
Speaker 1: always has great insight from all of her experiences. So
Speaker 1: we'll get to that in a moment. But first, I
Speaker 1: haven't read a story in a while. I apologize. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love reading stories. Send me more. I want mare,
Speaker 1: Just give me more and then I'll read more. I
Speaker 1: don't know. So this one was put in the Facebook
Speaker 1: group which is called ghosted by rosdres False and it
Speaker 1: comes from Noel and it's one of my favorite kinds
Speaker 1: of stories. This is. This is that kind of thing
Speaker 1: where I've talked about like could ghost be re enactors
Speaker 1: or cos players or the real thing? Like it's it's
Speaker 1: just I don't know. It's a it's a fun thing
Speaker 1: to ponder and sort of that kind of story. So
Speaker 1: here we go, Here we go, Here we go, Noel says.
Speaker 1: My hobby and I toured the battleship USS North Carolina
Speaker 1: back when our daughter was a freshman at UNCW. The
Speaker 1: battleship was decommissioned in nineteen forty seven, so pretty much
Speaker 1: it's imperfect World War II condition. We both love history
Speaker 1: and engineering, so we were like kids in a candy store.
Speaker 1: We were having a blast, especially since it was a
Speaker 1: living history interpreter's day. I believe that's like reenactor people. Okay,
Speaker 1: part way through, we were alone in the machine shop
Speaker 1: when my hobby yells, hey, check this guy out and
Speaker 1: rushes to the passageway. He leans out over a barrier,
Speaker 1: then turns around, pale and wide eyed. I immediately said,
Speaker 1: you saw something. He started pacing and just said, give
Speaker 1: me a minute. My skull feels too small and my
Speaker 1: skin feels too tight. Later he would say that it
Speaker 1: felt like his body was trying to implode, and the
Speaker 1: feeling lasted for almost the rest of the tour. He
Speaker 1: also said he wasn't going to tell me what he
Speaker 1: saw until we finished, because he felt sure he would
Speaker 1: find out it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. What
Speaker 1: he saw was a young man, maybe nineteen, blonde, helmet on,
Speaker 1: long sleeve, green shirt, something like a backpack or vest,
Speaker 1: wide utility belt, and green pants tucked into boots. All
Speaker 1: his clothes were pristine and pressed. He walked with purpose
Speaker 1: down the passageway by the open door, turned and looked
Speaker 1: at my hobby, then walked on. He had been excited
Speaker 1: when he'd seen him, because his outfit was so much
Speaker 1: more detailed and well done compared to the other interpreters.
Speaker 1: But that doorway was roped off with a swinging sign,
Speaker 1: and when he leaned out, he was gone, damn, she's like,
Speaker 1: this guy's outfit was better than those people that were
Speaker 1: trying it. My husband did not want to believe it
Speaker 1: was anything. For one thing, he was completely solid, just
Speaker 1: like anyone else. Also, there were a dozen or so
Speaker 1: dressed interpreters there, and the passageway was part of our tour.
Speaker 1: You just had to go another way to get there,
Speaker 1: but we never saw him again, and that all the
Speaker 1: hair on your body standing on end, the skin too tight,
Speaker 1: headache feeling it persisted. Also, none of the interpreters wore green.
Speaker 1: They all either had dark blue jeans and Chumbrai shirts
Speaker 1: or officer hackies. No navy personnel wore green. There had
Speaker 1: been a marine detachment on the ship during the war,
Speaker 1: but we only saw Navy interpreters. We also asked the
Speaker 1: man who's been the ship's caretaker for thirty five years
Speaker 1: and another staff member if there were any interpreters that
Speaker 1: fit that description, and they both said no. They all
Speaker 1: were members of a group that worked together to do
Speaker 1: these days often, so if there had been someone dressed
Speaker 1: as a member of the marine detachment and dressed as
Speaker 1: much more detailed and different than everyone else than both
Speaker 1: people would have known exactly who we were talking about,
Speaker 1: and we should have seen him again at the station
Speaker 1: as part of the tour. My husband said the rest
Speaker 1: of the afternoon evening, trying to convince himself that he
Speaker 1: didn't see anything. He was almost embarrassed that he'd seen it.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to be that guy, but honestly, being
Speaker 1: that person runs in his mom's family. Okay, all right, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a lot here, so let me just paraphrase a bit.
Speaker 1: So Noelle knew that they were on ghost hunters this
Speaker 1: ship at one point. Finally, on the way home from
Speaker 1: the college soccer game later that night, I googled ghosts
Speaker 1: on the USS North Carolina. I expected it to add
Speaker 1: more doubts, but I had to pull myself together before
Speaker 1: I could read it to my husband. Quote people often
Speaker 1: report a young blonde man in the passageways. So the
Speaker 1: more I think about it, if I want to believe
Speaker 1: it was anything, I think it was a time slip.
Speaker 1: The person he saw was definitely a marine, and as
Speaker 1: far as we know, no marines died on board, and
Speaker 1: he was solid, not ghost like. I think. Somehow, for
Speaker 1: a few seconds, the past and present were happening at
Speaker 1: the same time, and somewhere in nineteen forty something, they're
Speaker 1: laughing at a marine that said that he swore he
Speaker 1: saw a baseball player in shorts in the machine shop
Speaker 1: because her husband had on a baseball cap. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's possible. You hear these stories sometimes, I guess I
Speaker 1: don't often think like Okay, so if someone looks solid,
Speaker 1: then maybe that's like a time slip thing as opposed
Speaker 1: to I mean, who knows why sometimes they look glowing
Speaker 1: and see through and sometimes they look solid. But that, hey,
Speaker 1: that could actually actually be a great explanation for that.
Speaker 1: Maybe that is different because it's a it's like a swap,
Speaker 1: you know, like, Okay, well we'll let you have a
Speaker 1: person from the nineteen forties and we'll give you a
Speaker 1: person from the present. Like it's you're like both, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, I don't know. Sure, Wait a minute.
Speaker 1: So since Katrina does a show called Portals to Hell
Speaker 1: and they deal with a lot of this darkness and
Speaker 1: conversations of demons and that kind of thing, what if
Speaker 1: just go along with me. What if demons are what
Speaker 1: people will look like in the future, that's what we
Speaker 1: evolve into. What if so when you see a demon,
Speaker 1: it's really just a person from the year three thousand,
Speaker 1: and you just think it's a demon. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I hope you understand, guys, that A lot of
Speaker 1: times when I'm theorizing like this, this is just you're
Speaker 1: just literally listening to one person just trying to think
Speaker 1: of ideas and explanations and I enjoy doing that, so
Speaker 1: never take any of this stuff as definitive or facts.
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes I start thinking like this and
Speaker 1: then people are like, wait a minute, now, that's not
Speaker 1: the case. And then they send me messages and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know anything. God, God, I
Speaker 1: know as much as you guys here. Because the most
Speaker 1: of the time I have these conversations with people, it's recorded,
Speaker 1: so it's just one person's journey to get in all
Speaker 1: the answers, which I'll never get anyway. Here's somebody that's
Speaker 1: done some leg work, Katrina Wideman, out there in the field.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk to Katrina just a moment, of course.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. Go to my Patreon, Patreon, dot
Speaker 1: com slash raz dress Fales. I have my full length
Speaker 1: podcast that I've been doing on there. As I learn more,
Speaker 1: I got into fairies and trolls. I looked more into that.
Speaker 1: I looked into alien abductions last week and this week.
Speaker 1: Every Thursday, at some point during the day, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe later on and Thursday, I'm not sure. Sometime before Friday,
Speaker 1: my time. I put up a full length episode of
Speaker 1: that on my second tier Patreon dot com, slash Raws,
Speaker 1: dress Fales. Thank you for your support. All right from
Speaker 1: Portals to Hell. Here is Katrina Wideman on with the show.
Speaker 1: You guys. I am joined by our first ever four
Speaker 1: time guest, Katrina Wideman. Hello, Hello, how are you welcome back?
Speaker 3: I think you know, I feel really honored to be
Speaker 3: the first fourtimer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a jacket we'll send you in the mail.
Speaker 1: There's a jacket that you get to wear. It's like
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live. We have a lounge that leve and
Speaker 1: go to. I well, the funny thing or the I
Speaker 1: mean kind of. One of the reasons why you've been
Speaker 1: on so much is because you're the first paranormal investigator
Speaker 1: that was ever on my show. You were on like
Speaker 1: very early in my show, and I had never had
Speaker 1: anybody from a paranormal TV show.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were the first one, and you always bring
Speaker 1: us the goods. And I think when you came on
Speaker 1: was probably when the first season of Portals to Hell
Speaker 1: had just recently come out, and now you're in your
Speaker 1: third season.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that comes out April ninth, or when when.
Speaker 1: Will this have their right before April ninth.
Speaker 2: Okay, perfect, Yeah, so that comes out.
Speaker 3: Season three, Portals of Hell comes out April ninth, So
Speaker 3: thirteen different locations, which means thirteen episodes. And we had
Speaker 3: such a dedicated scene this year. I mean not that
Speaker 3: we did it before, but we had producers that were
Speaker 3: so so so excited about, like, you know, trying to
Speaker 3: find us different locations. And one of our producers, he's
Speaker 3: just really into the supernatural, so he like went above
Speaker 3: and beyond to find us just really different, unique locations.
Speaker 3: A lot of them have never been on television before,
Speaker 3: and a lot of them I hadn't even heard of before.
Speaker 3: So they were very like, you know, gems for sure
Speaker 3: that we have the opportunity to go into.
Speaker 1: Have you ever counted how many places you have investigated?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: My god, definitely under over Sorry, definitely over one hundred.
Speaker 1: I mean on TV alone, you've done so many different shows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so TV alone, I would have to say it's
Speaker 3: over one hundred. And then you take into account the
Speaker 3: events and lectures I've done, appearances, and then things I've
Speaker 3: done privately, you know, away from the cameras gets up there.
Speaker 1: I always wonder with paranormal shows, like I feel that
Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of Okay, we want to get
Speaker 1: a place that nobody has ever seen before. But I
Speaker 1: also do think that the classics, like people want to
Speaker 1: see you know again, or they want to see a
Speaker 1: different team than they ever seen going in there, or
Speaker 1: you know, I see the benefit to both, but how
Speaker 1: do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: So there's definitely that conversation that happens. As far as
Speaker 3: the media side goes, there's you know, I think shows
Speaker 3: or networks they want to be the first ones in someplace,
Speaker 3: but you run into the challenge where you know, these
Speaker 3: shows have been popular for going on twenty over twenty
Speaker 3: years at this point, you know, so it's like there's
Speaker 3: not like, you know, where we're not gonna It's like
Speaker 3: finding a needle in the haystack at this point. And
Speaker 3: sometimes what happens is like, for example, when I was
Speaker 3: working for a show where I was only the location,
Speaker 3: you know, I only worked in locations, one of the
Speaker 3: challenges we came up across was, you know, we wanted
Speaker 3: big locations, but so many of them were government owned
Speaker 3: or had some sort of tie to government entities, And
Speaker 3: there's a lot of rent tape when you're working with
Speaker 3: that and so many of them because they are associated
Speaker 3: with the government. They don't want this sigma, you know.
Speaker 3: So that's something that can happen. Another thing that can
Speaker 3: happen is developers are buying these properties and they either
Speaker 3: want to tear them down or they want to repurpose them,
Speaker 3: and they don't want the association, you know, so you
Speaker 3: run into like there's a lot of weird things. It's
Speaker 3: not just as easy as like like, hey, there's a
Speaker 3: haunted place in that town, let's go there, you know.
Speaker 3: So it's it's the magic of really wonderful producers who
Speaker 3: make that stuff happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the government is now ruining paranormal shows too.
Speaker 1: Another thing is like, like when I book this podcast,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I always like to have
Speaker 1: on like celebrities or people that are public speakers is
Speaker 1: because I already know that they can like be on
Speaker 1: a podcast and perform and be natural and whatever. And
Speaker 1: I imagine that it's like, well, these new locations, we
Speaker 1: don't know how the ghosts are on TV. They might
Speaker 1: you know, they might not be performers. They might clam up,
Speaker 1: they might Yeah, and I don't know what to do some
Speaker 1: of these some of these places that have been on everything.
Speaker 1: You go to the Queen Mary, those ghosts are like,
Speaker 1: all right, lights, camera action, We've done this so many times.
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that is a conversation that happens too.
Speaker 3: But that's that's a conversation that happens really for every
Speaker 3: location because we don't know what's going to happen. And
Speaker 3: you know, I think as investigators, it's one of those
Speaker 3: things that like we know that because we're investigators. I
Speaker 3: think where it gets tricky is if you have a
Speaker 3: producer who hasn't done these shows before, they get like
Speaker 3: nervous about.
Speaker 2: Well, what nothing's going to happen.
Speaker 3: So that's where you have to like if you work
Speaker 3: on that side or in that part of the paranormal,
Speaker 3: you have to really be careful about not be careful,
Speaker 3: but I guess just make sure that the right team is.
Speaker 2: In place, because you know, it takes it really.
Speaker 3: Is a special talent of somebody who's like, hey, I'm
Speaker 3: okay not knowing what's going to happen because I'm such
Speaker 3: a strong producer that I'm going to make a great
Speaker 3: show regardless, you know.
Speaker 2: Like, and the thing is, I never really think that.
Speaker 3: A great show is about the evidence, because evidence you
Speaker 3: can't I don't really think you can hang a show
Speaker 3: on that. And there shows that try, and there shows
Speaker 3: that have done it, but it's so unpredictable, and you know,
Speaker 3: I just I think it's smarter to hang a show
Speaker 3: on story and character, you know, as with any.
Speaker 2: Type of media, that's what draws us in right well.
Speaker 1: And just the locations alone, getting getting access, getting to
Speaker 1: see some of these places that you don't usually get
Speaker 1: to do. That's always like my favorite part. I always
Speaker 1: love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, same.
Speaker 3: And we were just doing an interview the other day
Speaker 3: and the interviewer.
Speaker 1: Eating on me. Okay, cool, it was.
Speaker 2: Just a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was it's just my body, it's just my voice.
Speaker 2: But the interviewer asked, what's the question? Oh? What was like?
Speaker 2: What draws in viewers? What seems to be the common thread?
Speaker 3: And I think one of the things is the history.
Speaker 3: You know, if you dive into the paranormal genre or
Speaker 3: the field, you'll find so many people are preservationists or
Speaker 3: historians or they have a love of that if they're
Speaker 3: not working in it.
Speaker 2: So I think it definitely is part of the draw.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely well, and of course the people on camera
Speaker 1: I think is really important too. There's some people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like if I don't know, you can't
Speaker 1: have like a boring person looking for ghost It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if a ghost like picks them up or not.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't really want to watch the forty
Speaker 1: five minutes until you get to that part, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a different I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 2: it's just connecting in a different way, right. So, and
Speaker 2: you know this too because you come from like a
Speaker 2: theatrical background.
Speaker 3: That if you have you know, I was explaining this,
Speaker 3: who was I explaining this to oh, my friend Tim
Speaker 3: who he had asked me if my theater background helped
Speaker 3: it all in hunting ghosts, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 3: know if it helps in hunting ghosts, but it definitely
Speaker 3: helps like working in this.
Speaker 2: Part of media, because it's if you have good.
Speaker 3: Acting teachers they teach you it's you know, all acting
Speaker 3: is is about connection and like getting to not only
Speaker 3: connecting to yourself, but connecting to the audience, connecting to
Speaker 3: your partners that you're working with. And so I think
Speaker 3: it's the same thing with reality shows, it's just about connection.
Speaker 1: And listening and being grounded and all of that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, so this season having shot at already, do
Speaker 1: you have any new theories or thoughts on any anything
Speaker 1: in terms of activity that can happen.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: For for the last couple of years, I've really leaned
Speaker 3: on the side of we don't have the right terms
Speaker 3: and definitions for things. Like, I know, strange things happen.
Speaker 3: I know that, and I know there's no explanation for
Speaker 3: a lot of those things at this point. But that
Speaker 3: doesn't mean like as somebody like, for example, I've been
Speaker 3: scratched before. Now a lot of people would consider that
Speaker 3: to be a demonic activity. I don't necessarily believe that,
Speaker 3: you know. I just think it's something that happened that
Speaker 3: I don't know how to explain right now. If I
Speaker 3: put on the filters of a certain religion or a
Speaker 3: certain culture, yeah you would call it something like that,
Speaker 3: But doesn't mean that it's negative. Not necessarily. We just
Speaker 3: don't know, you know. So we're putting our own spin
Speaker 3: on things. And I mean not that there's anything wrong
Speaker 3: with that. I think that's kind of how you start
Speaker 3: to get to the answers. You analyze every angle of it, right,
Speaker 3: But I think more than anything, the longer I am
Speaker 3: in the field, it's one of those things where definitely
Speaker 3: the more questions I have, and.
Speaker 2: Just you know, I'm just leaning more and more and more.
Speaker 3: Towards that thing of like, yeah, we don't I just
Speaker 3: really don't think we have the right label and definitions,
Speaker 3: because how can we when we really don't know how
Speaker 3: to prove this yet?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so much of it is like we
Speaker 1: can we can theorize, we can say maybe it's this,
Speaker 1: maybe it's that, and of course, as humans, we all
Speaker 1: want the answers.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of ghosts with like gorgeous
Speaker 1: long manicures that are like, I'm not a demon. I
Speaker 1: just got an acrylic set and then I died. Stop
Speaker 1: calling me a demon.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna propose that the next time that
Speaker 3: happens to some on the show, I'm like, guys, it's
Speaker 3: not a demon.
Speaker 2: This is what it is.
Speaker 1: Totally. Well, okay, so can we talk about the places
Speaker 1: you went this season?
Speaker 2: Yes? Oh, my gosh, amazing places This season.
Speaker 1: Okay, So first up is that Hillview Manor. Uh huh
Speaker 1: okay to talk about this place.
Speaker 3: So Hillview Manor, it's out near Pittsburgh. It's like an
Speaker 3: hour north of Pittsburgh. And it's an old manner that
Speaker 3: I mean they used it for uh like retirement living,
Speaker 3: that kind of thing. And the owner she bought it,
Speaker 3: I think she originally she and her brother bought it
Speaker 3: and they were going to turn it into I think
Speaker 3: housing was their initial plan. And then they realized that,
Speaker 3: wait a minute, there's some stuff going on here, and
Speaker 3: we don't know what to do with this. Because she
Speaker 3: was never into this kind of thing, and I guess
Speaker 3: when words started getting out that it was, you know, active,
Speaker 3: she took on a resident group to kind of help
Speaker 3: her figure out what was happening. And I from what
Speaker 3: I remember, they were the group that's there now has
Speaker 3: been the same group the whole time.
Speaker 2: And so Jack and I went.
Speaker 3: There's four floors in the middle, and then there's two wings,
Speaker 3: which I think are just two floors, and they have
Speaker 3: a lot of activity, a lot of it's the nine
Speaker 3: and you know, seemingly happy. And then there's this other
Speaker 3: activity in this one area of the building that seems
Speaker 3: to be more aggressive, more negative. So of course Jack
Speaker 3: and I spent a lot of time there, and it's weird.
Speaker 2: Because we were having these really.
Speaker 3: Aggressive type of noises happen in that one specific area
Speaker 3: of the building, like very very loud bangs, very very
Speaker 3: loud knocks, and they seem to happen on command. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, I think skeptically you can look at it
Speaker 3: and be like, well, it's an old building, like whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, you guys are full of it.
Speaker 3: But what's interesting about it is those things were only
Speaker 3: happening when we were asked for them, like to the
Speaker 3: point where we even left a voice activated recorder overnight
Speaker 3: and nothing was happening.
Speaker 2: You know, you could hear the trucks come by, you
Speaker 2: could hear like.
Speaker 3: Just you could hear noises, but you could understand what
Speaker 3: those noises were.
Speaker 2: When we were doing the investigation. They were coming out
Speaker 2: of nowhere.
Speaker 3: It seemed, at least, and when we check with the
Speaker 3: resident ghost hunting group, you know, you know, when we
Speaker 3: found them to be very forthcoming.
Speaker 2: So when we were like, hey, we had this happen,
Speaker 2: what is it?
Speaker 3: And they would be like, oh, that's just that don't
Speaker 3: worry about that's totally natural, you know. But when we
Speaker 3: were talking about our time in this one specific area,
Speaker 3: they were like, we've had the same things. We've investigated it,
Speaker 3: we've looked for answers, we can't figure it out. So
Speaker 3: you know, you kind of look at that overall objectively
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, gosh, you know, maybe there is
Speaker 3: something to that.
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that that's like like spirit boxes. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I have like a hard time with spirit boxes, and
Speaker 1: I feel like when when you're speaking to them and
Speaker 1: then it sounds like they're replying exactly in a way
Speaker 1: that they could to the question that you asked. Like
Speaker 1: that to me, is what makes there be something to
Speaker 1: it as opposed to just like, oh, I have the
Speaker 1: spearbox out and it just said this, and it just
Speaker 1: said that, and it just said that, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like, it's the same kind of thing
Speaker 1: with with knocking. If it if it seems like a communication,
Speaker 1: it seems like a conversation is happening here, as opposed
Speaker 1: to just sounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think that's the majority of an investigation is
Speaker 3: And especially with me and Jack, we say that all
Speaker 3: the time. We're not to make you believe in ghosts.
Speaker 3: We're not out to disprove them either, Like we're just
Speaker 3: there to document what people are talking about and saying that,
Speaker 3: you know, hey, I had this experience. It's like cool,
Speaker 3: can we go in and document that and then try
Speaker 3: to figure out what it is. And so as an investigator,
Speaker 3: you look for patterns, you know. So so for example,
Speaker 3: if there's an eye witness that comes forward and four
Speaker 3: months ago, they're like, hey, I saw a guy walk
Speaker 3: down this hallway, this is what he looked like.
Speaker 2: He had a tap pat.
Speaker 3: And then we find out, you know, through our research,
Speaker 3: we find there was an eyewitness ten years ago who
Speaker 3: had the same experience in the same area of the building.
Speaker 3: You know that that becomes really interesting. And that's one
Speaker 3: of the patterns we look for is shared experiences between
Speaker 3: people that don't know each other, between different lights of time.
Speaker 3: That becomes a really interesting phenomena.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the best, Like, yeah, wow, it's
Speaker 1: so cruc people that don't know each other's experience the
Speaker 1: same thing at different times.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we actually had because years ago on Paranormal
Speaker 3: State there was red Boiling Springs, Tennessee. The Thomas House.
Speaker 3: But Jack and I also went to for season two.
Speaker 2: Great place.
Speaker 3: I love the people there, and just through our research
Speaker 3: and we found out that there was someone who believed
Speaker 3: that they had an imaginary friend when they were little
Speaker 3: at the Thomas House named Sarah. Well, it turns out
Speaker 3: Sarah was a ghost that people had been seeing for years,
Speaker 3: I mean decades, and she didn't know about it. As
Speaker 3: a kid, they didn't I don't even think her mom
Speaker 3: knew about her. Mom was like, I think her mom
Speaker 3: worked there as like a cleaner or something. And so
Speaker 3: we tracked down this woman and we told her like
Speaker 3: on camera, like well, like tell us about your mentionary friend.
Speaker 2: And she told us about her, and then we were like, well, do.
Speaker 3: You know that people have been claiming to see her
Speaker 3: for like decades? And she I mean just her Reactually
Speaker 3: ever go back and watch that episode. It's amazing because
Speaker 3: she's like what and you know, but it's interesting because again,
Speaker 3: she was just a kid.
Speaker 2: She didn't know you know, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sarah has other our friends too, just so you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: what about so this season, you guys go to asylums.
Speaker 1: I never know the word asylums, psychiatric hospital facilities. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how many of those did you guys do this year?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: A couple of them.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember.
Speaker 3: They all smushed together for me after a while, they
Speaker 3: do like I need like the list in front of me.
Speaker 1: Remember, I found a list here online. Ellowise Psychiatric hospital.
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, so one Okay, I think it was just
Speaker 3: one that we went to of like mental health facilities.
Speaker 2: We did a restaurant.
Speaker 3: We did a couple of theaters. I know, right, me too,
Speaker 3: Jack and I found lots of costumes stress.
Speaker 1: Up in Oh my god, kind of theaters.
Speaker 3: So one was an actual theater down in Savannah, savannahs
Speaker 3: Theater right downtown.
Speaker 2: It was so cool.
Speaker 3: And then we went to actually a magician's theater in
Speaker 3: Hot Springs, Arkansas, which was amazing. It was like an
Speaker 3: old movie house type of theater and he turned it
Speaker 3: into his place where he performs, and he's just he
Speaker 3: is a character. He's so nice, but he's he's very
Speaker 3: like exactly what you think the magician would be, you know,
Speaker 3: and just really cool old Art Deco type building.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at it. The Malco Theater place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Malco so cool. Wait, so they did like magic shows there.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, he and his ex wife were like
Speaker 3: partners in a magic show.
Speaker 1: Is there. Do you think that there's like, now, this
Speaker 1: could be a stretch, But sometimes I think actually I
Speaker 1: think about magic a lot because you know, especially a
Speaker 1: long time ago, I think people just assume magicians have
Speaker 1: some kind of paranormal ability, and you know, Hoodini was
Speaker 1: into the seances, and it's like there is this weird
Speaker 1: It's like we know that it's not real, but like
Speaker 1: maybe it could be. Like I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: a lot, it's it's a fun thing because it it
Speaker 1: kind of in some ways goes along with the paranormal
Speaker 1: I think. But do you think that there's any like
Speaker 1: if a space, if someone's doing a bunch of magic
Speaker 1: in a space, do you think that there could be
Speaker 1: that could do something for paranormal activity?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I guess it depends on what type
Speaker 3: of magic they're doing, you know. So I mean if
Speaker 3: it's just sort of like sleight of hand stuff, I
Speaker 3: don't know, but you know, you get into things where
Speaker 3: they're putting on acts where they're like actually you can
Speaker 3: see this, and haunted houses too, where they're like pretending
Speaker 3: to call in something as part of their act, you know,
Speaker 3: and then you can see it seems like there's a
Speaker 3: pattern of once they do that an extended period of time,
Speaker 3: things happen after that.
Speaker 2: So I could see something like that. I tend not.
Speaker 3: To say that there's any absolutes though, just because we
Speaker 3: don't really know, So I'm not closed off to the
Speaker 3: idea at all that, you know, maybe maybe that does something.
Speaker 3: Or you have to take into consideration too, the energy
Speaker 3: that people bring to the show, Like maybe there's just
Speaker 3: something to do with going to some sort of theatrical
Speaker 3: performance where there's that much energy between people, you know,
Speaker 3: does that do anything?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, like what about a room full of
Speaker 1: people that believe that this stuff is real? Like does
Speaker 1: that could that contribute to something being real? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Is this is a stretch. I'm just like thinking out loud.
Speaker 1: But last time you were on, we were talking about
Speaker 1: haunted theaters and we were talking about how there's always
Speaker 1: a woman in white? Was there were there any women
Speaker 1: in white actresses?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I think at both of them. Definitely Savannah.
Speaker 3: There's the story of someone on the stage that people
Speaker 3: will see and she'll come out and perform.
Speaker 2: And I think.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember there is someone on the stage
Speaker 3: at Malco, but I don't know that it's the woman
Speaker 3: in white. I don't believe we really heard that. It
Speaker 3: was more male figures that seem to hang out in
Speaker 3: the house. But yeah, it's a funny phenomena, isn't it
Speaker 3: because people have seen this. I saw something. There was
Speaker 3: a theater we did. Where was it Ohio? I think
Speaker 3: it was Ohio, Jack and I and the name is
Speaker 3: escaping me, but it's an old opera house and I
Speaker 3: saw something like on the stage for like a second
Speaker 3: to the point where like I question it. I'm like,
Speaker 3: did I really see that? But you know it's I'm like,
Speaker 3: I know I saw something. But that one was a
Speaker 3: funny one. So I think that was season A, season one.
Speaker 3: That might have been season one for me and Jack,
Speaker 3: And it's funny. I don't think they kept it in
Speaker 3: the episode, but we uh we called in the old
Speaker 3: owner and he's this like real eccentric guy, really cool
Speaker 3: guy who was into theater.
Speaker 2: He was like a theater.
Speaker 3: Major, loved performing, loves antiques, so he would just like
Speaker 3: collect all these.
Speaker 2: Antiques and then he became like the mayor of.
Speaker 3: The town, like just like, you know, just a really amazing,
Speaker 3: sweet person. And when we were questioning him, we're like,
Speaker 3: you know, can you think of anything that might have.
Speaker 2: Set this off? Like why is this place so honted.
Speaker 2: He's like yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then he's like, well, you know, we're like what
Speaker 3: He's like nah, or like no, no, tell us, like
Speaker 3: we've heard everything, you know, you don't have to feel
Speaker 3: weird about saying anything in front of us.
Speaker 2: He's like, well, they had.
Speaker 3: The building next door was the police department, and they
Speaker 3: needed to make more room, so they dug underneath, so
Speaker 3: there was the basement.
Speaker 2: They needed more space.
Speaker 3: So they dug even further right, and when they did that,
Speaker 3: they found this old sarcophicus, like un honest to god
Speaker 3: sarcophagus like four feet underground.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Okay, and now listen to that.
Speaker 3: So Jack and I we were like you found you what,
Speaker 3: like you've in like the middle of Ohio you find
Speaker 3: this ancient sarcophagus buried underground.
Speaker 2: He's like yeah.
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, we didn't want them to stop,
Speaker 3: like because anytime you find something like that, you you
Speaker 3: probably should call the police. They were the police, so
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, whatever, but they didn't want to
Speaker 3: stop construction because they were on a tight deadline.
Speaker 2: So we were like, well, what did you do?
Speaker 3: And he's like, wow, it was really and we couldn't
Speaker 3: get it out, so we smashed it to pieces and.
Speaker 2: Took it out that way, and.
Speaker 3: Like in my head it was swirling like paranormal one
Speaker 3: oh one things not to do. Yeah, device like you know,
Speaker 3: and he's like, but I don't know why I thought it.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, maybe the ancient sarcophagus that you guys,
Speaker 3: you know, smashed to pieces.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So was there activity before they smashed the SARCOPHA gives.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that's what because he came in around that time.
Speaker 3: It seems like everything for him happened around the same time.
Speaker 3: But when he he actually lived in the theater and
Speaker 3: he turned the stage into an apartment and he showed
Speaker 3: us pictures and it was like amazing, and so I
Speaker 3: think it was after he lived there that.
Speaker 2: He became the mayor. But uh, you know, I think so.
Speaker 3: I think there was activity that predated that. But the
Speaker 3: story we got when we went is that something had
Speaker 3: shifted to be more negative.
Speaker 1: I'm ignorant of this sarcophagus. I always hear that, like
Speaker 1: first of all, favorite word ever. I think I just
Speaker 1: decided sarcophagus. I always hear that, like in ancient Egypt
Speaker 1: and stuff. But like, what, what exactly is a sarcophagus?
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's an ancient light casket. Uh,
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 3: It was made out of stone though, and like formed
Speaker 3: to the body from what I understand.
Speaker 2: WHOA yeah, And.
Speaker 3: When they did open it up, what he told us
Speaker 3: was they opened it up and there was nothing in there.
Speaker 1: There was the body got out, I guess.
Speaker 2: I guess, so it's crawled the way out.
Speaker 3: I don't know that body. Maybe it was always empty.
Speaker 3: I just think it's weird that there was no remnants
Speaker 3: of like anything. But maybe it's not weird.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's Ohio and they were in a they were in
Speaker 3: a floodstone anyway, So you know, it's possible that whatever
Speaker 3: was in there just didn't didn't survive and got you know,
Speaker 3: is integrated over time.
Speaker 1: Is it possible it was an old set piece from
Speaker 1: Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dream Code or something that
Speaker 1: just happened to be down there.
Speaker 3: Right as a cast Frank or like, let's bury it
Speaker 3: and years later someone will find it and it'll be hilarious.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, wait, I'm curious about these places
Speaker 1: that you guys went this year that have never been seen.
Speaker 1: What was that?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Ooh, Probably my favorite was Ernestine in Hazel's, which is
Speaker 3: in Memphis, Tennessee. And I love me some Memphis. I
Speaker 3: love Memphis.
Speaker 2: It is a great city.
Speaker 3: And I'm from Philly, so it has like a similar
Speaker 3: vibe of just you know, it's just like, I don't
Speaker 3: know how to describe it, it's just the vibe. And
Speaker 3: so Ernestine in Hazel's is a restaurant now, but it
Speaker 3: used to be originally Ernestine and Hazel they were hairdressers
Speaker 3: and they used to do the hair upstairs, and there
Speaker 3: was like a club underneath it, and it was the hangout,
Speaker 3: like the hangout spot in Memphis for all the musicians.
Speaker 3: So all the big acts that came through Memphis would
Speaker 3: go there afterwards. And oh gosh, like twenties.
Speaker 2: Thirties, forties, fifties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what's cool too, is they they were also
Speaker 3: like an establishment for African Americans because you know, especially
Speaker 3: during that time period, there wasn't a whole lot of acceptance,
Speaker 3: as we all know, so it really became a hot
Speaker 3: spot for that. So like Ray Charles would hang out there,
Speaker 3: Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 2: Who else?
Speaker 3: Well, Elvis used to eat across the street because the
Speaker 3: diner that he went for his famous sandwiches there.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, and peanut butter.
Speaker 3: Oh it was like peanut butter. And then yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I'm getting it confused because I do have
Speaker 1: a relative that every single day eats a peanut butter
Speaker 1: and mayonnaise sandwich, which makes me what one of I
Speaker 1: should I should have said trigger warning one of the
Speaker 1: grossest things I've ever heard.
Speaker 3: Sorry, how do you even get into that? Like, what's
Speaker 3: that moment in your life where you're like, you know what, what.
Speaker 2: If I'm going to try this.
Speaker 1: Really good with this MAYONNAISEA that's.
Speaker 2: So creepy to me?
Speaker 3: Okay about well, Ernestine and Hazel, So what's funny is
Speaker 3: they have a jukebox there that they think is haunted,
Speaker 3: and the story goes that the jukebox will play music
Speaker 3: that will be related to your conversation. So right, so,
Speaker 3: for example, if I'm talking about I don't know, say hey,
Speaker 3: my name's Katrina, and then Katrina and the waves comes on.
Speaker 1: Cool, you know, right, is it?
Speaker 2: So yeah? So right, So that's something that we were thinking.
Speaker 3: We're like, do they have it like secretly rigged with
Speaker 3: like a bluetooth and.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But it's been happening for decades like things that pre
Speaker 3: date that technology, you know, and apparently the Establishment is
Speaker 3: really really well known for it. Also it is their
Speaker 3: second jukebox, so the previous one did it as well.
Speaker 1: Wow, and you.
Speaker 3: Know, like obviously you know, we're like, we're we're investigators.
Speaker 3: We're like, well, we're going to figure it out, like
Speaker 3: we're there's got to be an answer for this. And
Speaker 3: but when we were there, honest to god, it did
Speaker 3: it so many times, so many times really, so it started, yeah,
Speaker 3: to the point where we had to plug it because
Speaker 3: we can't. I mean, you know, working in television you
Speaker 3: have to any kind of music, you have to get license, right,
Speaker 3: and sometimes it's really really expensive. And so, uh, it
Speaker 3: was happening so much that we were worried about the legalities,
Speaker 3: but also like we were interviewing people and would keep
Speaker 3: going on off, So like we were also like on
Speaker 3: you know, a timeline, and we're like, well, crap, we
Speaker 3: can't keep stopping down every single time a song comes on.
Speaker 2: So eventually we just had to unplug it.
Speaker 1: But do you do you have to put money in
Speaker 1: to get it to play? How does it just play?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: It was doing it, so, yes you do. If you
Speaker 3: do want a song to come on, you have to
Speaker 3: put money in. You was just doing it about it,
Speaker 3: I know, but not when it was going off by itself.
Speaker 3: It didn't have money in it, like nobody put anything in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would just go off, these ghosts getting their freebies.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's what's interesting because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people would assume a haunted jukebox. They wouldn't, but
Speaker 1: since there's been two of them, it's it seems more
Speaker 1: like a ghost or a ghost that like a jukebox,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, sometimes you hear about
Speaker 1: haunted objects. Is it the actual object itself or is
Speaker 1: is there a spirit of it that's controlling it?
Speaker 2: Or right?
Speaker 1: Well, no, there is. At the Magic Castle in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: there's the piano that can play any song or whatever
Speaker 1: on its own. But that I is like a magic trick.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they do it, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like the same kind of idea. So this place was
Speaker 1: known to be haunted, but nobody had ever been in there.
Speaker 1: I mean, what took them so long?
Speaker 2: Well for Ernestine and Hazels. Yeah, yeah, so they've had
Speaker 2: I guess they've had.
Speaker 3: Some kind of investigation. Oh, they have had investigations there,
Speaker 3: just not on television. So there were local investigators that
Speaker 3: we ended up talking to, and they have gone in
Speaker 3: a few times, but it's just they've never done it
Speaker 3: for TV.
Speaker 2: So and I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of off the beaten path, like
Speaker 3: you don't know about it unless you're from the area.
Speaker 2: You know, not that they.
Speaker 3: Hide the fact that they have things happen, it's just
Speaker 3: not you know. I think a lot of times we
Speaker 3: hear about like the big crazy like prisons and hospitals
Speaker 3: and things like that, and those kind of take those
Speaker 3: kind of like overshadow the smaller place.
Speaker 2: Though, sometimes I think.
Speaker 1: Is there Do they have any theory for why it's haunted?
Speaker 2: I think it's just the history.
Speaker 3: You know, there's so many people that came through there,
Speaker 3: and it was also they did use it as a bordello,
Speaker 3: you know. So a lot of the musicians that were
Speaker 3: coming through town, Ernestine and Hazel's was a good time
Speaker 3: for everything.
Speaker 1: You can get every haircut, you can get a drink,
Speaker 1: you can get food, you could get something else.
Speaker 2: You can get drugs, you could get you get a lady.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yep.
Speaker 3: So it was it was the place to be back
Speaker 3: then because you could get any It was like a
Speaker 3: little miniature vegas Us.
Speaker 1: That a big place.
Speaker 2: No, it's not that big.
Speaker 3: I mean it's big as far it's a building in
Speaker 3: a city, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, one of those.
Speaker 3: Buildings where it just goes up and down. But it's
Speaker 3: it's big for what you would think of something like that,
Speaker 3: but it's not big in comparison to like a prison
Speaker 3: or a hospital.
Speaker 1: Well you've been to that Bobby Mackie's place. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that place to me feels like.
Speaker 3: Darkness, Yeah, Bobby. Bobby Mackie's is a strange location. Been
Speaker 3: there twice. I never had anything really negative happen while
Speaker 3: I was there. Just the only thing that's strange that
Speaker 3: always sticks out to me is I think I told you.
Speaker 2: That thing that happened.
Speaker 3: Both Jack and I ended up in the emergency room,
Speaker 3: like on the same day. It was like three days
Speaker 3: after we filmed that episode. We're both in the er,
Speaker 3: and we both had psychics who don't necessarily know us
Speaker 3: very well reach out out to us on that day,
Speaker 3: being like, Hey, I don't know what you're doing, but
Speaker 3: something followed you home and it's dark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing negative happens there. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so it was. It was very strange.
Speaker 1: Has anything followed you home this season?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. Things have been relatively quiet.
Speaker 3: We moved though, too, so I think, like, my new
Speaker 3: place has really good energy in it.
Speaker 1: Did you ask if it was haunted?
Speaker 3: He didn't, No, but I didn't get the vibe. It
Speaker 3: just felt really really good, you know good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the what's the other places that you went
Speaker 1: to that nobody's ever been. I was reading about a
Speaker 1: museum that you guys went to.
Speaker 3: Oh, the Truss Tailor Museum that's up in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
Speaker 3: And it's literally like a block away from Plymouth Rock,
Speaker 3: Like literally the rock is there, and then you're like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, you're not even a full block. It's
Speaker 3: right there and that's never been on television, but long
Speaker 3: standing history of being haunted.
Speaker 2: And actually it's funny.
Speaker 3: Because that one producer I was talking that one producer
Speaker 3: I was talking about he's lived like everywhere every place
Speaker 3: we went. He's like, yeah, I lived here, I lived here,
Speaker 3: So he knew of all these hidden gems that had
Speaker 3: never really been on television. Yeah, so this one also
Speaker 3: came from him. And there's actually two houses that are
Speaker 3: part of the museum, and both of them have activity.
Speaker 3: One is a little lighter, one seems to be a
Speaker 3: little more negative, but they have things people have cleaned
Speaker 3: that televisions have flown off the wall or off of
Speaker 3: you know whatever they're sitting on, and smashed doors closing
Speaker 3: and opening with no explanation, voices, but steps, things moving.
Speaker 3: While we were there, I think one of the stranger
Speaker 3: things that happened our director of photography, Addison Miller.
Speaker 2: You'll see him sometimes in the background.
Speaker 3: The really really sweet guy, and he was sitting on
Speaker 3: this I don't know what it was like some sort
Speaker 3: of like lower table, not necessarily a coffee table, but
Speaker 3: it was like lower and it was what's the name
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 2: It was like ten top.
Speaker 3: Kind of I'm not explaining it really well, like where
Speaker 3: it's hollow, so like if you knock on it, it'll
Speaker 3: it'll make a noise, you know, it'll bang, kind of
Speaker 3: like aluminum.
Speaker 2: I guess it would be anyway.
Speaker 3: So he's sitting on that with his camera, which those
Speaker 3: cameras are really really heavy, and Addison is also a
Speaker 3: grown man, you know what I mean. So he's sitting
Speaker 3: on it with his camera and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: the thing starts to like vibrate like somebody had just
Speaker 3: like hit it really really hard, and he felt He's like,
Speaker 3: what is happening? And like he gets up. We test
Speaker 3: it over and over again. We could never find an
Speaker 3: explanation for that.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really weird, and it was happening during
Speaker 3: the time where there was a succession of things that
Speaker 3: were going on. So and you can feel it like
Speaker 3: you've been on investigations before, you know how, you can
Speaker 3: just like feel something is.
Speaker 1: Different, something's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like holding if you hold in your breath,
Speaker 3: take a deep breath and you hold it in. It's
Speaker 3: that feeling like that singly weird, tense ceiling and then
Speaker 3: when you let it go, when you let your breath go,
Speaker 3: it's the same thing. It's like everything went out of
Speaker 3: the room after that moment.
Speaker 2: It was it was very very weird.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm thinking right now about this activity
Speaker 1: that we experience. The stuff that isn't I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know, demon like, the stuff that's demons or evil
Speaker 1: or stuff that's not connected to like human spirits. What
Speaker 1: do you think is like the capabilities of that stuff,
Speaker 1: Like from your findings, what do you think is activity
Speaker 1: that comes from that kind of energy or whatever you
Speaker 1: want to say?
Speaker 3: Well, typically when we see somebody describing something negative, we
Speaker 3: see it with more physical activity, aggressive activity, so scratches,
Speaker 3: pushing hair, pulling, objects moving, and not just little objects
Speaker 3: but big objects. Lorraine Warren always said if it was
Speaker 3: over just a couple of pounds and.
Speaker 2: It moves, then it's the demon, you know.
Speaker 3: That was one of her criteria. But we also have
Speaker 3: to take into account the perceptions of people, right, So
Speaker 3: I might talk to a client who is telling me
Speaker 3: there's a demon in their house. I'm like, Okay, well
Speaker 3: why do you think that? And they'll give me a
Speaker 3: rundown of things that are happening. As an investigator, I'm like,
Speaker 3: that really doesn't sound like that's what you're dealing with,
Speaker 3: you know. But they've convinced themselves that it is because
Speaker 3: of their own background, you know, so you have to
Speaker 3: take that in consideration. The other thing I would say,
Speaker 3: there's I think I've talked to you about the Seaford,
Speaker 3: New York case in the fifties, right, Have I talked
Speaker 3: to you about that one?
Speaker 2: The Poltugeist one.
Speaker 1: I don't know what is it?
Speaker 2: Okay, So it was in the fifties.
Speaker 3: It was this family for nuclear family lived in this
Speaker 3: cute neighborhood in Seaford, New York, like a post World
Speaker 3: War two type the neighborhood neighborhood, and for six weeks
Speaker 3: they had intense insane activity that was witnessed by multiple people,
Speaker 3: including cops, psychologists, reporters, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's still an open police case today.
Speaker 3: And what's interesting about that case is they had a
Speaker 3: bookshelf that was like two hundred and fifty pounds just
Speaker 3: lift off the ground and fall. And there were multiple
Speaker 3: witnesses to this event. So now you know, you talk
Speaker 3: to now did any they had I mean six weeks
Speaker 3: of really crazy activity like that? But then it went away,
Speaker 3: nothing bad ever happened to them. So you know, you're
Speaker 3: going to talk to one person and they would look
Speaker 3: at all that criteria and they'd be like, well, that's
Speaker 3: a demon, but it doesn't add up to you know what,
Speaker 3: what necessarily a church, the church would call demonic activity.
Speaker 3: It does in some ways, but there for demonic activity
Speaker 3: to happen, usually.
Speaker 2: There's the target. It's how the church looks at it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: So there's one person being more affected, there's one person
Speaker 3: who seems to be the target for the bully, if
Speaker 3: you want to look at it that way. And so
Speaker 3: even though they had matching criterias in some columns, it
Speaker 3: didn't fully match up on others. But for me, I
Speaker 3: think the case is that we've been on where it
Speaker 3: does seem like there is something otherworldly happening that we
Speaker 3: would classify as negative, meaning it's having a very negative
Speaker 3: effect on somebody.
Speaker 2: There. It kind of does.
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, it does seem to follow the rules of
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church that they've laid out, which is there's
Speaker 3: a there's a starting point, which is infestation, and that
Speaker 3: happens with some sort of invitation within the person. So
Speaker 3: you know, whether they're going through a hard time or
Speaker 3: they've invited it in somehow. It's like you're opening the
Speaker 3: door for you know, a party to happen, and all
Speaker 3: the little buggers come inside and infest and you know,
Speaker 3: infest your home, and then it breaks you down and
Speaker 3: that's when you get oppression. Some people also like to
Speaker 3: add obsession in there, but oppression is just where you're
Speaker 3: feeling these things. You don't know why, they don't make
Speaker 3: sense for you, your family's noticing it, and then it
Speaker 3: turns into possession, which is when the person gets taken over.
Speaker 3: So I think in cases that we've been on, like
Speaker 3: a long time ago, that seems seems.
Speaker 2: To be it would at least be something that the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church would label that way.
Speaker 3: It does kind of seem to follow that pattern, which
Speaker 3: is which is strange for me.
Speaker 1: So do you ever go to these cases and since
Speaker 1: you said invitation is important, do you do you ever
Speaker 1: have a hard time figuring out like, all right, which
Speaker 1: one of you did this and they're like it wasn't me,
Speaker 1: and then you like find it out. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Actually, there was a there was a case a really
Speaker 3: long time ago where the family believed that they were
Speaker 3: being haunted by something negative day. I think they were
Speaker 3: using the word demon. But again, they were from a
Speaker 3: very very religious town.
Speaker 2: They were very religious.
Speaker 3: So you know, we were like, wow, that's like they're
Speaker 3: a lexicon for it, you know.
Speaker 2: And we were like going over and over and over
Speaker 2: again in our.
Speaker 3: Heads like what what costs? Where is the starting point
Speaker 3: for this? Let me ask them multiple times. So when
Speaker 3: I worked with clients, it's not just one interview, it's
Speaker 3: like five or six interviews we do with people, and
Speaker 3: that's a question that we were asking them every single time.
Speaker 3: Nothing ever came up. And then when we were there
Speaker 3: and we were having the interview in person, was it
Speaker 3: was like one of those things like what I was
Speaker 3: just telling you about with the theater director who was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: well we did find this ancient stercophacus in the basement,
Speaker 3: but I don't think that has anything to do with it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It was the same thing where this guy was like,
Speaker 3: well you know what he's like.
Speaker 2: There was that one time I made a pact with
Speaker 2: the devil.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, And we were like, what.
Speaker 3: This guy when he was younger, he made a pack
Speaker 3: with the devil, like a straight up offered his soul
Speaker 3: to the devil in exchange for things, and he had
Speaker 3: just like slipped his mind.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you forget that, but I.
Speaker 1: Guess he get whatever he wanted the devil to give him.
Speaker 3: I guess in certain ways, but I don't know if
Speaker 3: it was fully I don't know if that contract is
Speaker 3: fully executed.
Speaker 1: You need a demon lawyer next time. Yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: to Katrina. Now again. Check out her show Portals to
Speaker 1: Hell with Jack Osborne Discovery Plus Travel Channel, April ninth.
Speaker 1: I love it, I love them, I love I love it. Anyway,
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk way more next week, so make sure
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