1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, my guest today is 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: a good friend and somebody I've admired for many, many years, 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Peter Schweitzer. He says that, in a quarter century as 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: an investigative journalist, the research for his new book, Red Handed, 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: and I'm quoting Peter his quote, the scariest investigation he's 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: ever conducted. We've known for many years that the Chinese 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: government has been trying to infiltrate American institutions. What is 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: wholly new, however, are the number of American elites who 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: are eager to help the Chinese dictatorship in its quest 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: for global power. Presidential families, Silicon Valley gurus, Wall Street 11 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: high rollers, Ivy League universities, even professional athletes are all 12 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: willing to sacrifice American strength and security on the order 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: of personal Enrichmond and Red Handed. Peter presents his most 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: to alarming findings by revealing the secret deals wealthy Americans 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: have cut to help China build its military, technological, and 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: economic way. Peter and his team of forensic investigators spent 17 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: over a year scouring a massive trove of global corporate 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: records and legal filings to expose the hidden transactions China's 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: enablers hoped would never see the light of day. Red 20 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: Handed exposes the nexus of power between the Chinese government 21 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: and the American elites who do It's been so I'm 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, Peter Schweitzer, who's the 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: author of many investigative books, but in particular Red Handed, 24 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: how American elites get rich helping China win. Peter, listen, 25 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on news World to talk about 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: Red Handed. Now, you recently were on Mark Levin and 27 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: you revealed that Hunter Biden and the Biden family have 28 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: received thirty one million dollars. Can you go into detail 29 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: about how you uncovered that and what the source of 30 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: that money was? Yeah, nude, I'm glad to know. I 31 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: first broke the story about the Biden family's commercial ties 32 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: with China back in twenty eighteen, involving the private equity 33 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: deal that Hunter was put on the board of and 34 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: a few other deals. What we've been able to do 35 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: since then, NEWT is take new material from Hunter Biden laptop, material, 36 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: from email accounts from some of his business partners that 37 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: share those with us, and with other new corporate records 38 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: that have emerged, and what we've been able to do 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: is do two things. First, we've been able to quantify 40 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: some of those deals. So there are five deals that 41 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: come up to some thirty one million dollars. One of 42 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: them's a twenty million dollar deal where he gets an 43 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: ownership stake in a private equity company. Another one is 44 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: a five million dollar transfer that is sent to another 45 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: one of his businesses, etc. But what's interesting nude is 46 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: not just the amount of money, it's the origins of 47 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: that money. We wanted to trace back and find out. 48 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: So the Vice president's son at the time goes to 49 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: China and wants to do business, Who opens the doors 50 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: for him, Who puts these deals together, Who makes sure 51 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: he gets a seat at the table, even though he 52 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: has nothing really professionally speaking, business wise, he has nothing 53 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: to bring to the table. And what we found nude 54 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: is that there were five individuals who made that happen, businessmen, 55 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: and each one of them has links to the highest 56 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: levels of Chinese intelligence. One of them was business partners 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: with the Vice Minister for State Security. Another one was 58 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: business partners with a family of a former head of 59 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: a China spy apparatus. The Ministry of State Security so 60 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: this is not a story anymore just about corruption and 61 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: self dealing. It's a story about intelligence, it's a story 62 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: possibly about espionage, and it's a story that leads us 63 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: to a fundamental question, and that is is the Biden 64 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: family compromised and we need to have that conversation. Why 65 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: do you think it's been so hard to have that conversation? 66 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: That's a great question. I think there's a number of factors. 67 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: One is, you have people in Washington, DC, on both 68 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle that have commercial ties with China. 69 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: They don't want to have the broader conversation. I think 70 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: that's part of it. I think you have a lot 71 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: of news organizations that are owned by companies that have 72 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: deep ties in China. That presents a certain problem. You 73 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: also have, though the complex nature of the story. Again, 74 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: it took us a year and a half to get 75 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: to the bottom of this. A lot of news outlets 76 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: don't have the resources for it. Finally, I think there 77 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: is a notion in at least some reporters that they 78 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: believe that Donald Trump represents kind of an existential threat 79 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: to the American Republic. You know that he's a coo 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: leader in waiting however you want to say it, and 81 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: so they have decided that there is a greater need 82 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: to not weaken any of his political competitors. So I 83 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: think that's a component as well, one of those weirdest 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: things in Red Handed, at least from my perspective. You 85 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: point out that Hunter Biden actually was paying for multiple 86 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: phone lines for his father for eleven years while he 87 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: was in office as a senator or vice president. Isn't 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: that kind of strange? Yes, it is. I mean, you're 89 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: far more comfortable at the highest levels of political office, 90 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: and I understand people want to talk to their kids 91 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: and their families. But this was a three hundred dollars 92 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: a month AT and T phone bill for Joe Biden. 93 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: It was vice president. It was paid by Hunter Biden's business, 94 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: Rosemont Seneca. By the way, a clear violation of the 95 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: law if you look at the ethics laws and restrictions. 96 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: If you're related to a politician, you can buy them 97 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: gifts for Christmas, but you can't pay their bills, and 98 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: you certainly can't use your business to pay their bills. 99 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: And that's another part of this big story. Newde Is. 100 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: People consider this a Hunter Biden story. It's really a 101 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: Biden family story, because the other thing you find is 102 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden have blurred finances. That 103 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden is paying for his bills, one of them, 104 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: this is three hundred a month phone bill, but he's 105 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: also paying for renovations on Joe Biden's private residence up 106 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: in Delaware to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. 107 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: So the point is, when Hunter Biden benefits and gets 108 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: these foreign deals, one of the beneficiaries is actually his father, 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: who's having his bills paid by his son. So is 110 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: he personally paying for the renovation or is his company paying. 111 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: It's a little bit unclear because we have the emails 112 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: where they're discussing making payments out of certain accounts. Those 113 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: counts are not Joe Biden's accounts. They are Hunter Biden accounts. 114 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: Whether they are corporate or personal is unclear. But what 115 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: is clear is that Joe Biden is benefiting. It's also 116 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: clear that James Biden, that's Joe Biden's brother, also has 117 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: received millions of dollars from these Chinese deals. So this 118 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: is a Biden family enterprise. I have to say it's 119 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: a little weird. That a US senator and then vice 120 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: president can't pay, assuming that some reason you want to 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: have a private phone, which I suspect the Secret Service 122 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: would be very dubious about, but that he can't pay 123 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: out of his own pocket. This whole thing is kind 124 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: of strange. Well, you know, that's an interesting point. New 125 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: In looking through this story, I have to say, in 126 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: a strange way, I became a little bit more sympathetic 127 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: to Hunter Biden. And that don't get me wrong, Hunter 128 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: Biden is doing a lot of bad things. But one 129 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: of the things you find in the emails is that 130 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's under a lot of pressure. At one point, 131 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: he writes to his daughter, don't worry, I'm not gonna 132 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: have you do what I have to do with Pop, 133 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: which has send him half my money. Now you can 134 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: look at that and say, Okay, maybe he's just being 135 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: maybe as hyperbole. The problem is you've got all these 136 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: bills that Hunter Biden is actually paying for his father. 137 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: So to me, part of what's going on here is 138 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Hunter in effect is the bag man for the family 139 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: because he's paying his dad's bills, he's paying some of 140 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: his niece's bills. The money is being spread around, and 141 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: the pressure is on Hunter to deliver this for the family. 142 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: At the same time, I noticed the discrepancy that back 143 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, he's asking for Secret Service 144 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: support and protection if he goes to Europe, but he's 145 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: asking to not have the Secret Service with him when 146 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: he goes to China. I mean, it strikes me as 147 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of more than mildly strange. You would think he'd 148 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: want Secret Service in China at least as much as 149 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: in Europe. Yeah, no question about it. I mean, what 150 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: we know, the Secret Services confirmed it. They confirmed it 151 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: to the US Senate that in the I'm a twenty 152 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: fourteen Hunter Biden comes to them and says, I do 153 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: not want Secret Service protection when I'm traveling overseas. Now, 154 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: my understanding from people who have dealt with the Secret Service, 155 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: who know the Secret Service, they would not look favorably 156 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: upon that kind of a request. They would resist it. 157 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: But it's up to the principle. Meaning, if Hunter Biden 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: says I do not want you around, he is entitled 159 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: to request that. So he requests that. But you find 160 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: later in emails there are instances where he's going to 161 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: Europe or he's traveling in the United States where he 162 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: says I would like Secret Service protection for this particular occasion. 163 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: You not find a single instance where that happens related 164 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: to China. So in general, no Secret Service protection. And look, 165 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: this is at a time where obviously he has drug problems, 166 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: that are other things going on. But it's very very 167 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: clear for at least one reason, if not a multitude 168 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: of reasons, he does not want a US law enforcement 169 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: agency to know where he's going, who he's a meeting with, 170 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: and what he's doing. And I think it has something 171 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: to do with the drug use, but I also think 172 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: it has a lot to do with the specific people 173 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: he's dealing with when he goes to China. You know, 174 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: one of the things I got interested in, and I 175 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: thought it was a mistake that the Trump people never 176 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: really pursued it aggressively, is this whole Biden Center at 177 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania, which you point out. When the 178 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: Biden Center was announced that was going to open at 179 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania, donations from the Chinese to pen 180 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: almost tripled, and three years before the announcement, the university 181 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: received about fifteen million dollars. In the three years after 182 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: the total was close to forty million dollars, and if 183 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: you include contracts, the numbering jumps up to sixty million dollars. 184 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Much of the Chinese money that flowed to the University 185 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania to the opening the Bidenment Center is anonymous. 186 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: We don't know who it comes from. But I don't 187 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: think you get that kind of money out of China 188 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: without Jijianping and the Chinese Communist Party being happy with 189 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: the deal. And it's interesting, I think to this day, 190 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but the Biden Center still 191 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: remains invisible in terms of reporting any of their transactions. 192 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: So here you have a guy running for president and 193 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: now president who is involved with a center which got 194 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars probably from China, although since 195 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: it's secret, they could claim but they don't know what 196 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania you did with all that money. 197 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: But can you walk us through some of that, because 198 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: it strikes me as one of the weirder things about 199 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's background. It's a great point new the Biden 200 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: Centator is opened up when Joe Biden leaves the Vice 201 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: presidency and he's given a position at the University of 202 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania a nine hundred thousand dollars a year salary. He's 203 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: obviously not teaching classes or anything. And the Biden Center 204 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: is established. It's a little bit like what the Clinton 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: Foundation was for the Clintons. It becomes a place for 206 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: a lot of Joe Biden's staffers to collect paychecks. So 207 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: this is about Joe Biden, it's also about Tony Blink, 208 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: who is the Secretary of State. He was the managing 209 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: director of the Biden Center for a while. Steve Raschetti, 210 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: who is I believe White House counselor, was also drawing 211 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: a paycheck there. And so you see this money, this 212 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: Chinese money flowing into the University of Pennsylvania. We don't 213 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: know how much of it ends up at the Biden Center, 214 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: but it's curious. As I point out in the book, 215 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: there is a million dollar check that comes from a 216 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: Chinese company that is a major owner of a firm 217 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: called China Molybdenum, which is a company that mines very 218 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: specialized minerals. That exact company does it deal with Hunter 219 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: Biden's Chinese financial firm in Africa. So you see this 220 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: strange overlap between companies that are helping to pay Hunter 221 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: Biden in his private equity arrangements. But also there are 222 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: connections to making donations to the University of Pennsylvania. And 223 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: I should add nut that the Biden Center set up 224 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: a page describing its purpose, which was to port liberal 225 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: democracies and international law around the world. They identified three threats. 226 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: One of them was Russia, which of course Putin's Russia 227 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: as a threat. Number two is climate change, and number 228 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: three is terrorism. Never once was China mentioned as a 229 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: threat by the Biden Center. Let me go back to 230 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: TESTREECTI a reference to Tony Blincoln. So here you have 231 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: a guy who had been the staffer in the Senate 232 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: on the Foreign Relations Committee for Biden. He ends up 233 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: running a center which is probably again we don't approve 234 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: because they refused to release the details, but probably heavily 235 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: funded by the Chinese Communist And now he is the 236 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: Secretary of State, which may explain why he was so 237 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: passive in that first meeting in Alaska with the Chinese 238 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: foreign minister who lectured him severely, and Blincoln has kind 239 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: of took it, didn't defend America at all. This is 240 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: like a circus. I mean, how do you think about 241 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: Blincoln in that text. I think it's vitally important to 242 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: understand that because Blincoln, of course was also involved in 243 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: a consultancy called West exec and one of their areas 244 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: of specialization was helping US colleges do deals with China 245 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: while also retaining Department of Defense contracts, because you obviously 246 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: know the national security implications of China with DoD research. 247 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: Blincoln is a very interesting character in this because, as 248 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: I point out in the book, one of the things 249 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: that he infamously was reportedly involved in was the situation 250 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: back in the Obama administration when the highest ranking defector 251 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: from China, an intelligence official, defected to the United States. 252 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: He actually got to the US embassy in China by 253 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: a dressing in women's clothes and in the middle of 254 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: the night getting to the US embassy. This occurred right 255 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: before a summit that was supposed to happen between Barack 256 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: Obama and President g. Blincoln reportedly was the US official 257 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: that said, you know, we can't take this guy. We 258 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: need to send him back. The highest ranking security official 259 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: ever did effect to the United States did in fact 260 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: go back. Reportedly, it was Blincoln that pushed aggressively for that, 261 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: and of course he got fifteen plus years in jail. So, yes, 262 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: the problem with the Bidens in China is Hunter Biden 263 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: in the family, but it's also Tony Blincoln, and it's 264 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: also as National Security advisor, who of course was paid 265 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: in a fellowship at Yale University at a center that 266 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: is financed by the co founder of Ali Baba, and 267 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: as a major apologist, talks about the fact that communist 268 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: China is a great country, it's misunderstood, no human rights problems, etc. 269 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: So you've got this sort of consortium of relationships that 270 00:15:45,880 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: I think are of concern. You also lay out a 271 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: very interesting case about Bill Gates and Microsoft and the 272 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: degree to which Microsoft was prepared to in effect help 273 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: the Chinese communist dictatorship police human rights by censoring things 274 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: and by shaping Microsoft offerings in China to fit the 275 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: dictatorship's requirements. I mean that apparently became a fairly significant 276 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: part of Microsoft. Yes, Bill Gates has always been interested 277 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: in the Chinese market. He was granted access to the 278 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: Chinese market. He sells a lot of software to the 279 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: Chinese governments, not just Chinese businesses, to the Chinese government, 280 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: and that's come with a price. Part of it is 281 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: censoring communications. They used to have platforms for blogging, etc. 282 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: They don't really have those as much anymore, but they 283 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: were actively censoring. But Microsoft has also done something else 284 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: I think very concerning new, and that is that they 285 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: are doing joint research in artificial intelligence in China with 286 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: institutions that are known to be directly controlled by the 287 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: Chinese military. And artificial intelligence is one of those areas 288 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: where President Gee has said, this is the heart of 289 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: the competition with the United States, and if we can 290 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: win the race and artificial intelligence, we can seize, in 291 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: his words, the commanding heights when it comes to this 292 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: competition with the United States, Microsoft is actually funding and 293 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: supporting Chinese efforts in this behalf. Google is doing the 294 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: same thing. So it's this very bizarre situation where they 295 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: are subsidizing our military competitor. On top of that, Bill 296 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: Gates is an adviser of sorts to President Ge. He 297 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: was brought into the Chinese Academy of Engineering, which sounds 298 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: like this wonderful sort of scientific organization. As I point 299 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: out in the book, and extensively from the organization itself, 300 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: it's actually controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, and part 301 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: of its role is to advise the presidents to expand 302 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: the technological capabilities of the Chinese state, and Bill Gates 303 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: is a member and actively involved in that organization. It's 304 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: doubly interesting because I just read a brief article last 305 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: week that the Chinese now have an artificial intelligence television moderator. 306 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: It's apparently, i'm guess, a hologram, but driven by artificial 307 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: intelligence on Chinese television. I have no idea what that means, 308 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: and certainly, given the quality of some of our television moderators, 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence would probably be a major step up. But 310 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: it's clear that if you look at everything they're doing, 311 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: they're making major investments in technological advance and in a 312 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: disturbing number of cases, some of our biggest and most 313 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: sophisticated companies are hand in glove with them. I think, 314 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: in part just drawn by the sheer scale of the 315 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: Chinese market and the opportunity. I mean, you're pitting billions 316 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: and billions of dollars over the course of the next 317 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: ten or twenty years, and as a result, it seems 318 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: to me they have a tendency to be prepared to 319 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: enable the Chinese to be dramatically more capable than they 320 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: would be without the influx of American money in American technology. 321 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: And I'm very struck with the degree to which culturally 322 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: people are prepared to just bend over backwards. You saw recently, 323 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: of course, the head of a basketball team explaining that 324 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: nobody actually cares about what happens to the wagers. The 325 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: head of Nike's announced the Nike's really a Chinese company. 326 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: As you went through your research, did you find this 327 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: occurring more and more often? Yeah, and I think there's 328 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: a couple of things going on there. Nude. I think 329 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. The lure of the Chinese market its size, 330 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: is an enormous attraction to US corporate leaders. I think 331 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: we've also seen culturally sort of a waning of the 332 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: sense that operations and corporate executives view themselves as Americans, 333 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: and in fact, some of these CEOs aren't even Americans. 334 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: There from other countries. I think, though in some instances, 335 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: there's more at work than just that. I think there 336 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: is a attraction to the Chinese dictatorship. And what do 337 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean by that? You find a lot of people 338 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley, in Wall Street who talk about openly 339 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: the efficiency of the Chinese system. They just get things done, 340 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: They get things across the goal line. Things are so 341 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: much more effectively done there. I think that is an 342 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: attraction for some of these CEOs. They almost prefer an 343 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: autocratic regime to a representative democracy and everything that comes 344 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: with that. But finally, I think, particularly in the tech space, 345 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: there's something maybe even deeper at work. I quote from 346 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: a professor at Weisenbaum who taught computer science at MIT 347 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, and I quote him as saying 348 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: that computer programmers can develop an almost godlike complex because 349 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: they get to construct their own universe. They get to 350 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: code and determine what happens within this space. So Zuckerberg 351 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: and the people at Facebook, they create this universe of Facebook, 352 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: and they have more power in that sense than any general, 353 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: any politician, any other businessman has had. And a point 354 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: was the lure of technology and that absolute power can 355 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: spill over into other areas. And I really do believe 356 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: some of these tech executives and visionaries have this attraction 357 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: to a dictatorial regime because they've had that in their 358 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: business model throughout their life. So what do you think 359 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: the American response should be to having corporations that are 360 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: prepared and for that matter, billionaires and hedge fund billionaires 361 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: who are prepared to routinely side with tyranny and oppression 362 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: against the interests of the United States. It's a great question. 363 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: The last chapter in the book is actually called fighting Back, 364 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you have some very good idea is 365 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: on this too that I'd love to hear. I think 366 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: it has to be a combination of things. I think, 367 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: first of all, we have to separate the corporate conduct 368 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: that we don't like that is perhaps commercially based, and 369 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: then we have to look at those elements of what 370 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: corporations are doing that enhance the Chinese military in their 371 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: competition with the United States. I don't think there's any 372 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: reason why we should legally allow American corporations like Google 373 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: and Microsoft to do joint research with foreign military connected laboratories. 374 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it just should be outlawed. I can't imagine 375 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: during the Cold War American computer companies IBM saying, oh, 376 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: we're going to do research with this university in Moscow 377 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: that is linked to the military. So I think there's 378 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: certain things we can do in terms of just outright 379 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: banning it. I think when it comes to corporations being 380 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: afraid to speak about issues like human rights and concerns 381 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: about forced labor, I encourage people to engage in shareholder activism. 382 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: You can buy shares in the company. There are organizations 383 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: that do this already, show up as shareholder meetings and 384 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: ask people like Warren Buffett ask the head of Google, 385 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, why is this company doing this? Why are 386 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: you taking this position? I think they get deeply embarrassed 387 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: when they have to discuss it. That's why a lot 388 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: of times they don't want to discuss it, but they 389 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: ought to be called out. And then finally, there are 390 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: things in Washington we have I recount in the book 391 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: more than twenty former senators and senior members of Congress 392 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: that are lobbyists for not just Chinese companies, but lobbyists 393 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 1: for Chinese military and intelligence length companies. I believe that 394 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: you and I, because of the Constitution, have a right 395 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: to petition our government. I believe American corporations do. I 396 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: don't think the founders intended to allow foreign military and 397 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: intelligence link companies to hire formal politicians to lobby in Washington. 398 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: I think that needs to be banned as well. Yeah. 399 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: I saw one prominent democrat have been paid a million 400 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: dollars by Walwei to lobby the Biden White House. Yes, 401 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: and in fact, we quote from the Huawei message board 402 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: in China where they say, oh, this is great. Now 403 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: we've got the political influence operation at the highest levels. 404 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: I mean that's how they view it. Yeah, well, and 405 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: they're right. I mean, look, they understand that they're seeking 406 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: to buy influence, even if we lie to ourselves about it. 407 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: But you know, I mean one of the most interesting 408 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: to me has been this whole relationship between the National 409 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: Basketball Association and China. You have these institutions that here 410 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: at home are trying to be very woke and very 411 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: sensitive and very sympathetic, and then they get to China 412 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: and they basically say, hey, there's too much money involved. 413 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: You can't expect me to be sympathetic. What's your take 414 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: on the whole NBA China relationship. Yeah, I think, look, 415 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: they see the size of the market. There are a 416 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: lot of NBA fans in China. The problem is, as 417 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: you point out, this is a league that has prided 418 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: itself on allowing its athlet to be outspoken, and you 419 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: have this bizarre situation where one of the owners in 420 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: the NBA is a guy named Josi. He is a 421 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: co founder of Ali Baba. I quote him extensively in 422 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: the book. He goes around the country speaking at college 423 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: campuses saying, oh, no, no, you misunderstand communism in China. 424 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: Everything is great in China. I don't worry about human 425 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 1: rights abuses. At the same time, new he gives one 426 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to Black Lives Matter related groups and 427 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: talks about how unjust and terribly oppressive the American system is. 428 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's ridiculous, and none of the colleagues call 429 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: him out. You look at Lebron James, who again won't 430 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: be critical of China. He's been that way for a 431 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: long time. He has extensive commercial deals in China, not 432 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: just through Nike. His company has a relationship with Chinese 433 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: state media to distribute some of his film projects. He 434 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: has a special shoeline that is just for elites in China. 435 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: They pay top dollar for it, that has Chinese symbols 436 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: on it and everything. And he has been quiet and 437 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: criticizing the Chinese regime from the beginning back in two 438 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: thousand and seven. You would remember the massacres that were 439 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: taking place in darfour where an estimated two to three 440 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: hundred thousand Black Christians were killed by the regime. That 441 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: regime was backed by China. There was a petition drive 442 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: in the NBA to call out China for supporting this 443 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: massacre of black Christians. Lebron James refused to sign the petition, 444 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, so his silence has been deafening again. I 445 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: think the solution here is these individuals need to be shamed, 446 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: they need to be called out, and it's up to 447 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: the media to do that. If you work for ESPN 448 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: or other people that are interviewing athletes like this, you 449 00:26:40,440 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: need to call them out on this. Let me go 450 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: back to, in a sense where we started, and that's 451 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: the Congress. As you were developing red Handed, how deep 452 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: did you find the penetration of behaviors that are clearly 453 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: wrong among members of Congress. Well, it's a good question. 454 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at what does China want 455 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: from elites in the West that it's doing deals with, 456 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: and there's this Chinese intelligence approach that loosely translated to 457 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: English means big help with a little bad mouth, And 458 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: what they mean is They don't mind if people call 459 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: them out on the wagers occasionally, they understand that that 460 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 1: has to happen. The main thing is are you going 461 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: to restrict our access to technology and capital markets. That's 462 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: what we care about. So that's kind of the standard. 463 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: And if you look at Congress, I mean, there are 464 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: people that have commercial ties towards China, they don't particularly 465 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: say proach China things. Mitch McConnell would be an example 466 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: of this, but he really is resistant on issues related 467 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: to restrictions on free trade with China. Doesn't seem to 468 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: be particularly motivated on some of these technology issues we've 469 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: talked about. So that's one example. You can then look 470 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: at Diane Feinstein from California Senator, a former chairman of 471 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: the Senate an Intelligence Committee, who makes the most ridiculous statements. 472 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: You know. She's compared the Tienamen Square massacre where ten 473 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: thousand civilians were killed, some of them that were run 474 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: over by tanks by the Chinese military. She compares that 475 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: to Kent State, where there were four killed and nine wounded. 476 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: She has said that Chinese government can actually be more 477 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: representative than the American government. But more to the point, 478 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: her husband has done massive deals in China to the 479 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, and you had 480 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: this bizarre situation new in twenty ten. Diane Feinstein is 481 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Her husband co 482 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: owns a Chinese computer company called Legend, which for some 483 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: reason got a contract to provide computers to the US military. 484 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: Who knows how that happened, but the US Marine Corps 485 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: Command discovers that the laptops that they're provided are bugged. 486 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: So if the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee's husband 487 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: co owns a company that is selling bugged computers to 488 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: the United States Marine Corps, I mean, it's truly a 489 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: remarkable situation. But that never broke loose into being a 490 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: big story, did it. No, it did not. We cite 491 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: from a court testimony where Marine Corps officers come it's 492 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: a commercial lidication case and under oath explain precisely what happened, 493 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: and the laptops were returned and nothing else happened. That company, Legend, 494 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: then became part of Lenovo, which is a largely well 495 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: known company today. But it never became a story. And 496 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: you find this kind of stuff occurring with frequency haven't 497 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: in that sense, the corporate news media basically been as 498 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: fully co opted as say the NBA. I mean, they're 499 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: not going to go out and dig into any of 500 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: these stories. Yeah, I mean. Look at a new outlet 501 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: like Bloomberg. I mean, they do major business in Beijing 502 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: as a huge core of their business, getting government and 503 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: information and selling it to clients around the world. You 504 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: look at ABC News. ABC News. They do some good reporting, 505 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: but they're owned by Disney, and Disney wants to do 506 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: even more business in China than they're already doing. It's 507 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: a major problem that major corporations that have very aggressive 508 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: ambitions in China control a lot of these major news outlets. 509 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: Just look at some of the instances that have occurred. 510 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: They understand if you call out China on something, it's 511 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: going to hurt your bottom line in China. I know 512 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: from personal knowledge of the people who were involved that 513 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News have begun a serious investigation of corruption in China, 514 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: and they've got a message back that said, we will 515 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: take out all of the Bloomberg facilities in every office 516 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: in China, and it will cost you about a billion 517 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: dollars a year. They stood up for journalistic integrity, right now, 518 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: that's right. At that point, they caved totally, and the 519 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: person who told me the story resigned and just said, 520 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: it was so disgusting to watch the Chinese blackmail them 521 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: and get away with it. And I think that we're 522 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: seeing this again and again. Now. You have had not 523 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: so much in reaction to the Chinese story, but in 524 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: reaction to various examples of members of Congress who have 525 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: done suspiciously well in beating the stock market. You had 526 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: twenty five Democrats and two Republicans sign a letter calling 527 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: for banning members of Congress from owning or trading Stockwell 528 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: in office, what's your reaction to the general notion that 529 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: we have to have some kind of major reform that 530 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,719 Speaker 1: puts a wall between what members learn as members of 531 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: Congress and what they do in the marketplace. Well, you know, 532 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: my view is two things. Number One, insider trading and 533 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: by some members of Congress, certainly not all, is a 534 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: major problem. And it's also just a question of trust. 535 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: It has gone on, People know that it goes on, 536 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: and it's just one other thing that leads Americans to 537 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: believe that the political class is more self interested than 538 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: anything else. The second thing, though, is I believe we've 539 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: got to have members of Congress invested in the success 540 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: of our economy. So my view new is that we 541 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: should ban options trading by members of Congress. This is 542 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: where you make a very leveraged bet. Nancy Pelosi's husband 543 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: does this very aggressively to the tune of millions of dollars, 544 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: so he could stand to lose tens of millions if 545 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: he bets wrong, and he seems to bet right a 546 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: whole lot. So you've got to ban options trading. I 547 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: would also say allow members of Congress to own mutual funds, 548 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: to own index funds, to own exchange traded funds that 549 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: are sort of broadly based. But I'm not sure it's 550 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: a good idea for members of Congress that say, sit 551 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: on the Senate Armed Services Committee to be trading stock 552 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: in Boeing or theon. It looks unseemly, even it's coincidental, 553 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: which is what they claim, and I don't believe. It 554 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: just looks unseemly, So I think that's a good reform. 555 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: Do you favor simply requiring them to move towards that 556 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: kind of an indexed fund where somebody else is managing 557 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: it or would you favor having them put the resources 558 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: into blind trusts? And how would you handle the spouse challenge. 559 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, in the case of fine Stone and Pelosi, 560 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: the real driving force of their husbands. That's exactly right. 561 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: You have this problem that spouses. They'll have joint assets, 562 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: but then they'll only have certain assets that are being 563 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: held by the spouses. So that's an enormous problem. And 564 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: you also have the problem of adult children. Senator Ron 565 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: Wyden from Oregon as a son who runs a hedge fund. Now, 566 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: I don't know that anything wrong is going on there, 567 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: but you have the problem additionally of adult children, So 568 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's an enormous problem. I think blind trusts 569 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: are a great idea in theory. What lawyers have told 570 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: me is that it prevents the financial manager from communicating 571 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: trades with the principle, but it does not prevent the 572 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: principle from calling up and having a chat with a 573 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: broker and saying, hey, how's your day going. Oh it's 574 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: going great. Oh we got this massive legislation that's going 575 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: to affect oil companies. Have a great day, and the 576 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: guy can trade on it. So there's not going to 577 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: be a silver bullet. But I think we need to 578 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: make it clear and clean. So if you go to 579 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: index funds, and that's sort of in a sense anonymous, 580 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: which puts you into everybody else, would you then require 581 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: that also be two other spouse Yes. Now here's where 582 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: I play the card which is absolutely accurate, which is 583 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer. I would say for spouses, I 584 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: would probably try to extend it to adult children. But yes, 585 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: I think you would extend it. You have to because 586 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, use the example of 587 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: bribery new if you bribe a politician or if you 588 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: bribe their spouse to get a favor from the politician, 589 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. And I think with inside or trading, 590 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: it's inside or trading whether the politician themselves makes the 591 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: trade or whether their spouse does. So you'll also have 592 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: I guess in terms of the children you have the 593 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden example you do. This is a big problem 594 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: because as our economy and the world has globalized, corruption 595 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: has become globalized, and this is I think a huge problem. 596 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: I mean, look, we all know the story of the 597 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: politician who there's somebody back in the district who wants 598 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: a paving contract and they hire the congressman's son, and 599 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: we all know that goes on, and that's not good, 600 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: but it goes to a whole other level when you've 601 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: got these foreign autocratic regimes that either want something from 602 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: the United States or competing with the United States, and 603 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: the scale of money has exploded. Years ago, I read 604 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: the Colin McCullough's seven volume novel about Julius Caesar, and 605 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 1: in the opening volumes she's describing the decay of the 606 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: Roman Republic under the sheer weight of money from the 607 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: entire Mediterranean War world, and that people have concluded that 608 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: it is cheaper to bribe Rome than it is to 609 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: try to solve problems otherwise. And so you had kings 610 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: and princes and billionaires of that era showing up with 611 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: huge volumes of resources, and the system, which had been 612 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: relatively honorable for several hundred years, just begins to crumble 613 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: because that much money excites people to engage in truly 614 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: vicious behavior, because having power is that big a deal. 615 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: It's very, very sobering, and I think with the work 616 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: you've done over your career is a major contribution. But 617 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: in particular, I think red handed, how American elites get rich. 618 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: Helping China Win could not be a more timely book. 619 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: And I really appreciate the amount of time and effort 620 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: you've put into and your team has put into digging 621 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: through all the records and putting the other something that 622 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: I think every thoughtful American will find this to be 623 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,399 Speaker 1: a very sobering and in some ways a very frightening book. Yeah, 624 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: sadly it is a frightening book. But you know, in 625 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: the last chapter making the point that there are people 626 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: on both sides of the isle in Washington who do 627 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: want to stand up to China, and the point is 628 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: we need to start acting on that. We need to 629 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: start accepting no excuses from the political class. You know, 630 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: it's interesting you talked about ancient Rome. In China, they 631 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: have this term, they call it elite capture. And the 632 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 1: very simple idea is, you know, why worry about dealing 633 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: with the messiness of the entire United States. If you 634 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: can just pay off key elements of the leadership class 635 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: to at least sort of get out of the way 636 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: and not oppose what they're doing, you will accomplish your 637 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: ends a lot easier than trying to go toe to 638 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: toe with the United States. Yep. I think that's exactly 639 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: what their strategy is that I think it's very sobering 640 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: how well they've done. I want to thank you for 641 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: joining me. I think your book's going to be a 642 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: must read for every American who cares about this country 643 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: and wants to understand better the threat we face from China. 644 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: I really hope people will start to pay attention to 645 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: the degree to which the Biden family and their immediate 646 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: allies have been profiting from China and hold them accountable. 647 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: And I just want you to know we'll do a 648 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: weekend to make sure that people know about Red Handed 649 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: and why they should read it. Thank you, Nude, It's 650 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: always a great time to have a conversation with you. 651 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Thank you to my guests, 652 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: Peter Schweitzer. You can get a link to buy his 653 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: new book, Red Handed, How American Elites Get Rich Helping 654 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: China Win on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 655 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: Newts World is produced by Gingwich three sixty and iHeartMedia. 656 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: Our executive producers Garnsey Sloan, our producers Rebecca Howe, and 657 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show 658 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 659 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 660 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 661 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 662 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 663 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: newts World consign up from my three free weekly columns 664 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: at Gingwich three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. 665 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: This is news World.