1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Media. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm d Zeitron and this is Better Offline. 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to dot Comweek. 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed my chat with Matt Rosof to 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: kick it off, and today is the first of a 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 3: four part special But why I think the AI bubble 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 3: is that much worse than the dot com bubble. So 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 3: for almost five years I put out a newsletter or 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 3: article basically every week that addresses the underlying financial rat 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 3: at the heart of the tech industry, whether it be 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 3: the outright corruption the crypto industry, the bullshit of the metaverse, 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: or the AI bubble that I won't shut up about. 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 3: It's been some of the most challenging work I've ever done. 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 3: I've been forced to learn accountancy, economics and the names 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: of at least ten different guys i'd gladly see under 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 3: a with a I'm not on accountant, forensic, or otherwise. 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 3: I'm not a banker or a financial analyst. I've never 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 3: worked as a venture capitalist or a hedge fund, or 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: at a hedge fund. I guess that would be I'm 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 3: just a guy with a laptop and a microphone. But 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: I think I've picked up a great deal of knowledge 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: in the last few years, and the clarity of starting 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: from a position of oh God, what does that mean 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 3: actually allowed me to see things in the way that 25 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 3: many haven't, which is why I am so utterly horrified 26 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 3: when I hear people flippantly say that the AI bubble 27 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: will work out fine because it's just like the dot 28 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: com bubble. While there are similarities, I need to be 29 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 3: clear that I think the AI bubble is far, far worse, 30 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 3: and the calamity that follow us would be far more destructive. 31 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: Let's review the dot com. 32 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: Bubble actually had two elements, the stable, sensible tech companies 33 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 3: that actually made money, and then the likes of pets 34 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: dot com and webvan, both ideas that would eventually find 35 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: margin positive existence in the form of Dewey and Instacram. 36 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 3: I'd also add the telecommunications companies onto the side of 37 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 3: this as well, but technically they weren't making the websites. 38 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: They were just building me into them. What buried these 39 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 3: companies was their obsession with growth, with them a rush 40 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: to take them public. The idea of ordering pet food 41 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 3: or groceries online was one that would have made a 42 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: lot more sense if more people were connected to the 43 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 3: Internet or had faster connections in the year two thousand, 44 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 3: only about fifty two percent of Americans were online, and well, 45 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 3: both web van and pets dot Com were losing two 46 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 3: dollars for every dollar of revenue. 47 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. 48 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: That shit didn't make any sense, and it wouldn't have 49 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: even if we had high speed internet. But I think 50 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 3: by the middle of the two thousands we only had 51 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: most people on at best four hundred kilobits per second, 52 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: so we're talking websites that took time to load. Anyway, 53 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: the economic sourceer didn't make sense. Now the AI bubble 54 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: differs in so far as that what we would have 55 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 3: once considered stable sensible tech companies are acting irrationally, having 56 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 3: doubled or in the case of Microsoft, tripled the amount 57 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 3: of hardware known as PP and E that they operate 58 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: in just a couple of years, with no signs of 59 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 3: slowing down. These companies are racking up entering into multi 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: decade long lease agreements, and it accumulated so much hardware 61 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: that the depreciation will erode any profitability for the short 62 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: term medium term future. For example, Microsoft went from having 63 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 3: around eighty eight billion dollars in PP and E that's property, 64 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: plants of equipment which is where the GPUs are, by 65 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: the way, in the beginning of twenty twenty three, to 66 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 3: a remarkable two hundred and thirty billion dollars in pp 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: and E as of its last quarter. And depreciation, by 68 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: the way, is not it's not a cash expense. They've 69 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: already bought the GPUs and the service and the like. 70 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: What it does, however, is sit there because they spread 71 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: it out over five to six years. I think it's 72 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: five and a half from Microsoft. They spread it out, 73 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: so it eats into that net income side. So instead 74 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: of they'd taken the immediate upfront hit, they spread it out. 75 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: So this means that each quarter from here until fucking eternity, 76 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: at this point, Microsoft is going to be taking billions 77 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: of dollars of appreciation charges. Now, while the dot com 78 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: bubble was wasteful, it didn't involve the largest and most 79 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: well respected tech firms in the world accruing hundreds of 80 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: billions of dollars of GPUs that are absolutely a year 81 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: or so after being installed. It also didn't involve billions 82 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: in operational expenses or acres of data centers. In fact, 83 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: there's really no comparison. Fiber doesn't compare at all the 84 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: scale of the fiber will get to it. But I 85 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: just want to be clear that fiber is also something 86 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 3: that you can use on many things. Fiber is something 87 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: that another company could come up and run with. Aigpus 88 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: are extremely limited in their outcomes. I've been over this before. 89 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: Not going to repeat myself. Perhaps I'll do it more 90 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 3: in depth episode on that in the future. But look, 91 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: in many ways, I fear the AI bubble is going 92 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 3: to be worse than the dot com bubble. It's going 93 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: to make it look small, and we are already seeing 94 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 3: some worrying signs. Now, let's start somewhere simple though. 95 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Layoffs. 96 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: Fun fact, even during the dot com bubble, Microsoft barely 97 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 3: had any layoffs, with the company growing its headcount even 98 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 3: as the tech industry around it was consumed in flames. 99 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 3: The biggest round of firings I could find during the 100 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and eight period was 101 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 3: between August twenty twenty four and January twenty twenty five, 102 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 3: when it can seventy six members of its ex Box 103 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: group as well as one hundred and fifty seven test 104 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 3: engineers whose jobs were offshore to India. That gives you 105 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: a grand total of two hundred and thirty three people. 106 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: For comparison, Microsoft laid off six thousand people in May 107 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: of last year, or three percent of its global workforce. 108 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: Now that's not to say that people at other companies 109 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: were equally fortunate. In two thousand and one, some Microsystems 110 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 3: called ninety percent of its workforce or thirty nine hundred jobs. 111 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 3: That was the first of many at that particular company. 112 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: In two thousand and one, the telecommunications sector cut and 113 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: I am not shitting you here three hundred and seventeen thousand, 114 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: seven hundred and seventy seven rolls, with the computer industry 115 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 3: second rank for that year, shedding one hundred and fifty 116 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: three thousand and nine hundred and fifty two positions. Similarly, 117 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: Amazon saw it stocked tumble in January two thousand when 118 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: it was discovered that it laid off one hundred and 119 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 3: fifty people, two percent of its workforce at the time, 120 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 3: and would lay off another thirteen hundred a year later, 121 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 3: or fifteen percent of its workforce. Now, that, by the way, 122 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: sounds like a lot. And also I think it's adorable. 123 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: Back when the stock market cared, when companies did layoffs, 124 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: they don't today. And Amazon indeed is a very different 125 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 3: company today, going from a fledgling digital book seller to 126 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 3: one of the largest retailers and cloud storage providers in 127 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: the world, and a very profitable one. And that Yet 128 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: this week Amazon laid off another fourteen thousand people, ten 129 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 3: percent of its corporate workforce, around three months after laying 130 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: off fourteen thousand more people in October twenty twenty five. 131 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: Why well bids two things. 132 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 3: First, it's the scourge of Jack welch, go and listen 133 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 3: to the shareholder supremacy from twenty twenty four if you 134 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: like that one, and the idea that laying people off 135 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: well at boosts profits, which Wall Street loves now. Secondly, 136 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: it's because Amazon is buying billions of dollars of GPUs, 137 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: both in Vidia and directly from TSMC for its trainium 138 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: custom chips. That is TSMC Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation they 139 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: build basically every chip, and Amazon they build them internally 140 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: using a company called Annapurna Labs. It's a whole thing 141 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: saying it doesn't really mean much. They're not as good 142 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: as vidious GPUs, but nevertheless they keep fucking that chicken. 143 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: And this is a massive burden on its earnings. These 144 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 3: chips have their costs spread out, like I mentioned as 145 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: a depreciation charge, dragging down the profits that Amazon can 146 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: report on its earnings in the process. Well, this isn't 147 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: the problem when you buy one or two or ten GPUs. 148 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: It becomes one when you have hundreds of thousands of 149 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 3: the fuckers. Amazon had sixteen point seven billion dollars of 150 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: depreciation charges and its last earnings. That's a great deal. 151 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 3: I think their net revenue is like twenty two to 152 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 3: twenty four billion dollars, not great. In similar terms, today's 153 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: layoffs are happening not because the companies are in trouble, 154 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 3: but because they want to boost their profits at a 155 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 3: time when AI services aren't providing a profit and I 156 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: don't think they ever will. Nevertheless, these layoffs are a sign 157 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: of something that these companies know that revenue growth isn't 158 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: keeping pace with their ruinous expenditures. The only jobs that 159 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 3: AI is taking are those that the hyperscaler cuts to 160 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: keep paying for its existence. 161 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: In any case, people really need. 162 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: To recognize that the dot com bubble wasn't some small 163 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: event that could be casually waved off, and other things 164 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 3: that happen tell the story of what might before anyone 165 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: left in or invested in the tech industry when it does. 166 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: In two thousand and one, VC funds raised sixty three 167 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: percent less than the previous year, and the amount of 168 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: money going to startups, not just technology companies, dropped by 169 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: slightly more. Then there's the stock marketing. If you held 170 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 3: stocks in the company like pets dot Com were at 171 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 3: its highest relatively modest four hundred million dollars, or Webvam 172 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 3: with a peak market cap of eight billion dollars, you 173 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: were completely fucking screwed. Those companies went to zero or 174 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: near enough. Even those who invested in established firms like 175 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 3: Microsoft and Sun faced their own haircuts, with Microsoft's share 176 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: price dropping from a high of one hundred and twenty 177 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 3: dollars to as little as forty dollars. Adjusted for the 178 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: two stock splits that happened in nineteen ninety nine and 179 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, it would take around seventeen years 180 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: for Microsoft to reach its original dot com bubble highs. 181 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 3: The fact is, the dot com bubble fucked a lot 182 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 3: of people. The tech sector's share of employment wouldn't surpass 183 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 3: the levels of the bubble era until twenty fifteen. In practice, 184 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: this meant that newly graduated software engineers couldn't find much work, 185 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 3: and what work they could find offered stagnant wages that 186 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: didn't keep pace with inflation. That's the thing about the 187 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: dot com bubble. We like to think if it as 188 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: something that happened around the turn of the millennium, but 189 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: in practice it took until two thousand and four for 190 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 3: the contraction and the tech jobs market to finally bottom out. 191 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,599 Speaker 3: Existing workers face threats not simply from economic related cutbacks 192 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: making the company do the same with the resources they 193 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 3: already have, but also from outsourcing, which grew exponentially in 194 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 3: popularity in the early two thousands. This incidentally, was around 195 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 3: the time that China entered the World Trade Organization, meaning 196 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: that in addition to cuts in the service related the 197 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: sector the economy, a lot of high tech manufacturing jobs 198 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: went out the door too. The point I'm making is 199 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: that the dot com bubble was bad, and that the 200 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: second order effects, the things that didn't get as many 201 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: headlines or as much pop culture weight, were really truly gruesome. 202 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 3: Now there's a great line from The Big Shot. I 203 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 3: always find myself returning to. It's when Ben rick At, 204 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 3: the retired finance guy who came back in from the 205 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: cold in order to help Brownfield Capital short the mortgage market, 206 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 3: castigates the two young founders for celebrating what would be 207 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 3: the trade of the century. 208 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: If we're right, people lose homes, people lose jobs, people 209 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: whose retirement savings, people lose pensions. 210 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: You know what I hate about fucking banking. It reduces 211 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: people to numbers. Here's a number. 212 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: Every one percent, unemployment goes up, forty thousand people died. 213 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: Did you know that It's so fucking easy to talk 214 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: about this period with statistical data, to talk about layoffs 215 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 3: and abstract terms like tens of thousands or hundreds of 216 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: thousands of jobs, or to say how the stock market contracted, 217 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: but things would work out okay, that everybody would be 218 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: fine in the future, and thus the fuck ups today 219 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: would be okay. I need to be clear that anybody 220 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: who traded into the dot com bubble got washed out, 221 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: and similarly, anybody who believed story after story about the 222 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: eternal growth and telecommunications or web startups lost almost everything, 223 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 3: if not everything they put in. Anybody who worked for Enron, 224 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: the people that didn't know about the illegal bullshit happening, 225 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: lost every cent of their stock based pension. Unemployment swelled 226 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: to a peak of six point three percent in June 227 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, and the NASDAK lost nearly eight 228 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: percent of its value from its peak in the year 229 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 3: two thousand. Anyone saying that this is just like the 230 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 3: dot com bubble as some sort of defense of the reckless, 231 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: monstrous expenditures of the AI bubble is trying to find 232 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: rationalizations for irrational, reckless actions. These are likely privileged people 233 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 3: who define at the time were of found ways to 234 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 3: look back at a time of incredible suffering and believe 235 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: that because things are better today, that. 236 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: All of it was worthwhile. It wasn't. 237 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: I know that the fiber build out led to something, 238 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 3: and I'll get to that in the future episode, I promise. 239 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 3: But just because that happened doesn't make any this worthing. 240 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: All of the wasted money in that time could have 241 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: been spread out over a more thoughtful period. It wasn't, 242 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 3: and people suffered as a result. I'm going to talk 243 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: about this more next episode. Thank you for listening. 244 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,359 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Better Offline. 245 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 3: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 246 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music 247 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 3: and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com, m A T 248 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: T O. 249 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 2: S O w Ski dot com. 250 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: You can email me at easy at better offline dot 251 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 3: com or visit better offline dot com to find more 252 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 3: podcast links and of course, my newsletter. I also really 253 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 3: recommend you go to chat dot Where's Youreed dot at 254 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 3: to visit the discord, and go to our slash Better. 255 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so much 256 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: for listening. Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. 257 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 258 00:12:58,559 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com. 259 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: Check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 260 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts.