1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:21,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Imagine there's a place in our world where the 2 00:00:21,836 --> 00:00:26,356 Speaker 1: known things go, shelves stocked with proof, and all around 3 00:00:26,716 --> 00:00:30,116 Speaker 1: a clutter of clues. At this point, it's worse than 4 00:00:30,156 --> 00:00:34,396 Speaker 1: a clutter. It's closer to chaos. On the mantel, there's 5 00:00:34,396 --> 00:00:37,916 Speaker 1: a clock. Its hands are racing, its works, ticking too fast. 6 00:00:38,196 --> 00:00:42,676 Speaker 1: It's like a heart about to burst. A phonograph won't stop. 7 00:00:43,836 --> 00:00:48,316 Speaker 1: And who let all these birds in? It's time to 8 00:00:48,356 --> 00:00:52,596 Speaker 1: get out of here. Rush through the door and out 9 00:00:52,676 --> 00:00:55,476 Speaker 1: into a cornfield in the middle of Illinois in the 10 00:00:55,556 --> 00:01:04,836 Speaker 1: year nineteen thirty nine, the American heartland. Holy wow, they've 11 00:01:04,876 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: got an explosion in the cornfield. Who the devil himself 12 00:01:15,156 --> 00:01:17,956 Speaker 1: broke a loose down in our cornfield? He came a 13 00:01:18,076 --> 00:01:20,756 Speaker 1: roar and a rampagron right up from the fiery pit, 14 00:01:20,836 --> 00:01:23,276 Speaker 1: blowing smoke out of his mouth and fire out of 15 00:01:23,316 --> 00:01:28,116 Speaker 1: his eyes. What is going on? Pulpe science fiction? Is what? 16 00:01:28,636 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 1: This is? A bananas story called The Warning from the Past. 17 00:01:32,356 --> 00:01:35,236 Speaker 1: Not enough trouble to have the radio st client his 18 00:01:35,396 --> 00:01:39,356 Speaker 1: full head off right in the middle of my favorite program. 19 00:01:39,436 --> 00:01:41,876 Speaker 1: The Warning from the Past was published in the magazine 20 00:01:41,996 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 1: Thrilling Wonder Stories in nineteen thirty nine. Here's what happens. 21 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:49,796 Speaker 1: After the explosion in the cornfield. The farmer's wife calls 22 00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 1: the police. The reporters call scientists. The scientists discovered that 23 00:01:53,996 --> 00:02:03,196 Speaker 1: the explosion had come from a gigantic time capsule. It 24 00:02:03,356 --> 00:02:07,676 Speaker 1: is buried twenty feet under the ground, constructed of rust 25 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:12,116 Speaker 1: resistant metal. The size cannot be determined as yet, but 26 00:02:12,316 --> 00:02:16,196 Speaker 1: it is at least thirty feet in diameter. The top 27 00:02:16,236 --> 00:02:20,356 Speaker 1: of the capsule was blown off by an explosion. Apparently 28 00:02:20,596 --> 00:02:24,436 Speaker 1: the light, the smoke, and the radio signals were designed 29 00:02:24,436 --> 00:02:29,076 Speaker 1: to call attention to the time capsule. I guess the 30 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:31,436 Speaker 1: people who built the time capsule were worried that unless 31 00:02:31,436 --> 00:02:34,396 Speaker 1: the thing literally blew its top off, known would ever 32 00:02:34,436 --> 00:02:37,516 Speaker 1: notice it was there? Who will be left unopened its 33 00:02:37,556 --> 00:02:43,756 Speaker 1: mysteries Unknown myths and legends surviving from pre primitive times 34 00:02:44,036 --> 00:02:48,956 Speaker 1: indicate that a civilization may have existed on Earth prior 35 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:53,236 Speaker 1: to the present, but this is the first definite proof 36 00:02:53,316 --> 00:02:58,116 Speaker 1: of their existence ever found. In the story, a group 37 00:02:58,116 --> 00:03:01,036 Speaker 1: of brave men prior open the time capsule's giant door 38 00:03:01,596 --> 00:03:07,956 Speaker 1: and make their way inside. Their entrance triggers a projector 39 00:03:08,156 --> 00:03:11,316 Speaker 1: and a film starts playing it turns out that the 40 00:03:11,356 --> 00:03:14,516 Speaker 1: time capsule was built by ancient Earthlings after their planet 41 00:03:14,556 --> 00:03:17,636 Speaker 1: was invaded by aliens. They made this little film about 42 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:19,516 Speaker 1: what happened to them, and then they buried it in 43 00:03:19,556 --> 00:03:22,876 Speaker 1: a time capsule. I first ran across this story Warning 44 00:03:22,916 --> 00:03:26,036 Speaker 1: from the Past in January twenty twenty. I was really 45 00:03:26,156 --> 00:03:29,436 Speaker 1: into the time Capsule, so goofy. But there was another 46 00:03:29,476 --> 00:03:31,396 Speaker 1: part of the plot that didn't seem as important to 47 00:03:31,396 --> 00:03:34,796 Speaker 1: me at the time. It's this The aliens didn't destroy 48 00:03:34,836 --> 00:03:37,916 Speaker 1: the Earthlings with lasers or ray guns. Now they let 49 00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:42,396 Speaker 1: loose a virus, the common cold, a coronavirus, and everyone died. 50 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:49,836 Speaker 1: Time Capsule indeed, welcome to the Last Archive. They show 51 00:03:49,876 --> 00:03:51,476 Speaker 1: about how we know what we know and why it 52 00:03:51,476 --> 00:03:53,636 Speaker 1: seems lately as if we don't know anything at all. 53 00:03:54,516 --> 00:03:57,276 Speaker 1: This is the last episode of the season. All along, 54 00:03:57,276 --> 00:03:59,596 Speaker 1: I've been making an argument about the history of evidence, 55 00:04:00,036 --> 00:04:03,316 Speaker 1: arguing that our elemental unit of knowledge has changed from 56 00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:06,836 Speaker 1: mysteries to facts, to numbers to data. But the age 57 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:08,956 Speaker 1: of data is also a return to the age of miss, 58 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:12,876 Speaker 1: a world in which we can't know anything. Only machines 59 00:04:12,956 --> 00:04:18,436 Speaker 1: can know things, mysterious godlike machines. All season long I've 60 00:04:18,436 --> 00:04:21,476 Speaker 1: been trying to figure out who killed truth, what a 61 00:04:21,636 --> 00:04:25,036 Speaker 1: time capsules have to do with it. Weirdly, they're a 62 00:04:25,076 --> 00:04:28,956 Speaker 1: clue to me as a historian. Chronology is like gravity 63 00:04:29,076 --> 00:04:32,076 Speaker 1: a law. A time capsule tries to break that law. 64 00:04:32,356 --> 00:04:34,836 Speaker 1: That's like a rocket from the past blasted into the 65 00:04:34,876 --> 00:04:38,236 Speaker 1: future by being buried in the ground. Sometimes I get 66 00:04:38,236 --> 00:04:41,476 Speaker 1: the feeling we're all trapped in someone else's time capsule. 67 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty nine, the world seemed to be coming apart. 68 00:04:54,836 --> 00:04:58,756 Speaker 1: The world was coming apart. Pulp science fiction aliens from 69 00:04:58,796 --> 00:05:00,996 Speaker 1: outer space would have been a relief compared to what 70 00:05:01,076 --> 00:05:06,036 Speaker 1: was actually happening. Germany has invaded Poland and has bombed 71 00:05:06,116 --> 00:05:11,276 Speaker 1: many times. General mobiliza has been ordered in Britain and France. 72 00:05:11,876 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 1: It felt unreal, dream like a nightmare. But over in 73 00:05:16,116 --> 00:05:18,916 Speaker 1: the United States, in New York, the World's Fare was 74 00:05:18,956 --> 00:05:24,276 Speaker 1: opening a fair called the World of Tomorrow. The World's 75 00:05:24,316 --> 00:05:27,316 Speaker 1: Fair was held on hundreds of acres and queens. There 76 00:05:27,316 --> 00:05:30,836 Speaker 1: were all kinds of exhibits, Mainly they involved traveling to 77 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:34,676 Speaker 1: the future. You could visit Democracity, a sort of imagined 78 00:05:34,916 --> 00:05:38,276 Speaker 1: Jetson style city of the Future, the Future of Democracy, 79 00:05:39,436 --> 00:05:43,316 Speaker 1: the nation's foremost companies present the magic of today that 80 00:05:43,476 --> 00:05:47,476 Speaker 1: paves the way while the miracles of tomorrow. Or you 81 00:05:47,476 --> 00:05:50,316 Speaker 1: could check out preparations for a time capsule, the kind 82 00:05:50,316 --> 00:05:53,716 Speaker 1: of thing that inspired that thrilling wonder story. We've been 83 00:05:53,756 --> 00:05:56,396 Speaker 1: reading a lot about the time capsule. Could we take 84 00:05:56,436 --> 00:05:58,356 Speaker 1: a look at it? Why? Sure, we can get to 85 00:05:58,396 --> 00:06:04,036 Speaker 1: it this way. Time Capsule of Cupola deposited on the 86 00:06:04,076 --> 00:06:07,676 Speaker 1: side of the New York World's Fair on September twenty third, 87 00:06:07,836 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, by the Westinghouse Electric and Manufacturing Company. 88 00:06:12,956 --> 00:06:17,036 Speaker 1: If anyone should come upon this capsule before the year A. D. 89 00:06:17,316 --> 00:06:20,916 Speaker 1: Sixty nine thirty nine, let him not wanting they disturb it, 90 00:06:21,556 --> 00:06:24,076 Speaker 1: or to do so would be to deprive the people 91 00:06:24,116 --> 00:06:27,716 Speaker 1: of that era of a legacy here left them. This 92 00:06:27,756 --> 00:06:30,236 Speaker 1: weirdness is a scene from a promotional film about the 93 00:06:30,236 --> 00:06:33,156 Speaker 1: World's Fair, in which in all American family visits the 94 00:06:33,156 --> 00:06:37,236 Speaker 1: world of tomorrow. The time capsule down there is actually 95 00:06:37,276 --> 00:06:40,276 Speaker 1: a message from our time to those those who opened 96 00:06:40,316 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 1: and study it. Will they're more about us than any 97 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:45,116 Speaker 1: man living today. Well, what I'm wondering is how anybody 98 00:06:45,116 --> 00:06:46,836 Speaker 1: will know how to find it in the year What 99 00:06:47,116 --> 00:06:52,156 Speaker 1: was he sixty nine thirty nine. Not quite in sixty 100 00:06:52,196 --> 00:06:56,276 Speaker 1: nine thirty nine, but in the last quarantine free days 101 00:06:56,276 --> 00:06:58,956 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, I headed out to Queens to look 102 00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:02,276 Speaker 1: for the time capsule buried there in nineteen thirty nine. 103 00:07:03,356 --> 00:07:04,996 Speaker 1: What did the people who buried it mean to say 104 00:07:05,036 --> 00:07:07,756 Speaker 1: about the world of tomorrow? Could we go back in 105 00:07:07,836 --> 00:07:11,196 Speaker 1: time and heed that war from the past? I went 106 00:07:11,196 --> 00:07:13,636 Speaker 1: with my producer Ben and with Olivia Oldham, who works 107 00:07:13,676 --> 00:07:16,556 Speaker 1: for the podcast. We had an appointment with Liz Sevchenko, 108 00:07:16,636 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: a historian of New York and of memory. She's the 109 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:23,316 Speaker 1: director of the Humanity's Action Lab. Anyway, if you've seen 110 00:07:23,356 --> 00:07:25,916 Speaker 1: Men in Black, you've seen the place where we met, 111 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:30,036 Speaker 1: where Will Smith got vomited back out in a giant 112 00:07:30,156 --> 00:07:35,316 Speaker 1: spray of demon goo. The sight of the nineteen thirty 113 00:07:35,396 --> 00:07:38,796 Speaker 1: nine World Tomorrow. It's pretty close to LaGuardia Airport. It's 114 00:07:38,836 --> 00:07:41,596 Speaker 1: got all these remnants of the fair, these monumental, huge 115 00:07:41,676 --> 00:07:47,636 Speaker 1: rusting structures, gigantic abandon spires, a massive metal sphere. It 116 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:50,796 Speaker 1: looks like a graveyard of the future. We're also really 117 00:07:50,836 --> 00:07:53,636 Speaker 1: close too, as I understand it. Fact check please, but 118 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:58,316 Speaker 1: the you know, birthplace of our dear President so this 119 00:07:58,516 --> 00:08:03,276 Speaker 1: is like where it all started, yea of the future 120 00:08:03,396 --> 00:08:07,956 Speaker 1: exactly when Donald Trump was born near here in nineteen 121 00:08:08,036 --> 00:08:10,476 Speaker 1: forty six. His father, Fred was the owner of a 122 00:08:10,476 --> 00:08:13,836 Speaker 1: construction business in Queens. The Trump's had gotten married in 123 00:08:13,916 --> 00:08:16,276 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, and by the time The World Tomorrow 124 00:08:16,316 --> 00:08:19,356 Speaker 1: opened they already had two kids. Probably they came to 125 00:08:19,396 --> 00:08:22,476 Speaker 1: the fair. Fred Trump rented a giant billboard near the 126 00:08:22,516 --> 00:08:25,916 Speaker 1: fair for his Trump homes. It called them the Home 127 00:08:26,276 --> 00:08:29,876 Speaker 1: of Tomorrow. When I tell people I'm working on a 128 00:08:29,916 --> 00:08:33,916 Speaker 1: podcast that asks the question who killed truth, they usually say, 129 00:08:34,836 --> 00:08:39,676 Speaker 1: isn't the answer obvious? The murderer is Donald Trump? Okay, fair, 130 00:08:40,516 --> 00:08:43,596 Speaker 1: But all season long I've been avoiding the usual suspects. 131 00:08:43,956 --> 00:08:46,796 Speaker 1: I think they're just a little too easy. Also, I 132 00:08:46,836 --> 00:08:49,516 Speaker 1: don't quite buy it. I think Trump might be a 133 00:08:49,556 --> 00:08:53,556 Speaker 1: red herring. God knows, the man's a liar, a colossal, 134 00:08:53,676 --> 00:08:56,636 Speaker 1: dangerous liar. But it takes a whole lot more than 135 00:08:56,716 --> 00:09:01,196 Speaker 1: one man to undermine an entire system of knowledge. Anyway, 136 00:09:01,476 --> 00:09:05,276 Speaker 1: we had a different mission in Queens. Find that time capsule, 137 00:09:05,916 --> 00:09:07,756 Speaker 1: I think you need to ask. I mean, there was 138 00:09:07,796 --> 00:09:12,596 Speaker 1: a very understated, little sort of like memorial looking thing 139 00:09:13,356 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 1: back there. I don't know if we've a was it 140 00:09:17,196 --> 00:09:19,716 Speaker 1: like a cylinder or like a low silm like every stump. Yes, 141 00:09:20,796 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 1: we'd asked Sevchenko along to help us think about memorials 142 00:09:23,796 --> 00:09:27,436 Speaker 1: and monuments and whether they contain truth or really just 143 00:09:27,516 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: containers of myths. She's written brilliantly about that stuff. We 144 00:09:32,276 --> 00:09:34,636 Speaker 1: also thought she could probably help us find the time capsule. 145 00:09:35,276 --> 00:09:39,756 Speaker 1: Not that that bolder thing, but like where those bushes are. Okay, wait, 146 00:09:39,836 --> 00:09:46,996 Speaker 1: this is it. It's like a flattened smushed something like 147 00:09:47,036 --> 00:09:49,756 Speaker 1: if it were an obelisk that a giant stepped on 148 00:09:50,236 --> 00:09:53,516 Speaker 1: and it went splat. It feels kind of self defeating 149 00:09:53,556 --> 00:09:56,076 Speaker 1: because if you want something to be found five thousand 150 00:09:56,156 --> 00:09:58,116 Speaker 1: years in the future, why would you make it so 151 00:09:58,196 --> 00:10:01,076 Speaker 1: low key and everything else about it. I shouldn't be 152 00:10:01,156 --> 00:10:04,236 Speaker 1: like a giant space needle spike putting out of it. Yeah, 153 00:10:04,316 --> 00:10:07,076 Speaker 1: it's like a kind of dimple or like a nipple 154 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:08,556 Speaker 1: on the top of this pine. It looks like it's 155 00:10:08,596 --> 00:10:11,596 Speaker 1: a button. Should be able to press it rise out 156 00:10:11,596 --> 00:10:13,996 Speaker 1: like a coffee maker or something. If we press and 157 00:10:14,076 --> 00:10:18,836 Speaker 1: just ruin the whole, there's like a lip or what's 158 00:10:18,876 --> 00:10:21,316 Speaker 1: the opposite of a lip, because like there's a little 159 00:10:21,356 --> 00:10:25,556 Speaker 1: gutter underneath, right, Maybe that's where you're supposed to fry from. 160 00:10:28,236 --> 00:10:30,396 Speaker 1: I'd break my nails, honey, I'm not gonna do that. 161 00:10:32,796 --> 00:10:35,076 Speaker 1: If you went to the World's Fair in nineteen thirty nine, 162 00:10:35,316 --> 00:10:37,076 Speaker 1: you could see some of the contents of the time 163 00:10:37,076 --> 00:10:41,756 Speaker 1: capsule behind a big glass display. Who stuff the logical 164 00:10:41,756 --> 00:10:44,476 Speaker 1: illage in a committee? Aided by a thought? He's in 165 00:10:44,556 --> 00:10:47,396 Speaker 1: every field of science on the os. It's a complete 166 00:10:47,436 --> 00:10:51,436 Speaker 1: record of our civilization. A complete record of our civilization, 167 00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:55,716 Speaker 1: brought to you by Westinghouse. Section one. Small articles of 168 00:10:55,716 --> 00:11:02,116 Speaker 1: common use alarm clock, can opener, eyeglasses, bifocals, fountain pen, 169 00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:09,516 Speaker 1: Mazda electric lamp, mechanical pencil, miniature camera, nail file, padlocking keys, 170 00:11:09,716 --> 00:11:13,196 Speaker 1: and a safety food. I like the lamp socket. They 171 00:11:13,236 --> 00:11:16,196 Speaker 1: have an electrical lamp socket there. It was just like 172 00:11:16,316 --> 00:11:18,356 Speaker 1: outside the context of a house. How are you ever 173 00:11:18,356 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: going to figure out what that was? For? Our guide 174 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:23,836 Speaker 1: in Queens Lives of Chenko direct some of the world's 175 00:11:23,876 --> 00:11:27,756 Speaker 1: most powerful public memory projects. Our project about American prisons 176 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:32,516 Speaker 1: called States of Incarceration, another called the Guantanamo Public Memory Project. 177 00:11:33,156 --> 00:11:35,396 Speaker 1: After I read the list of the Time Capsule's contents. 178 00:11:35,916 --> 00:11:39,076 Speaker 1: She got this look on her face. I just think, 179 00:11:39,116 --> 00:11:41,636 Speaker 1: I mean, there's this weird sense in which they're speaking 180 00:11:41,636 --> 00:11:47,476 Speaker 1: to an ignorant future population, like assuming they don't know anything, 181 00:11:47,516 --> 00:11:50,756 Speaker 1: and they're so excited to like educate them. It struck 182 00:11:50,796 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 1: us all as a weird and creepy kind of arrogance. 183 00:11:53,316 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 1: We just couldn't puzzle the thing out. It was also 184 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:59,076 Speaker 1: strange that it had so few markings. We kept looking 185 00:11:59,116 --> 00:12:07,596 Speaker 1: for text, a plaque, anything, Oh what is that? Oh? 186 00:12:07,676 --> 00:12:12,716 Speaker 1: I can't read it. It says, I think it's the 187 00:12:12,756 --> 00:12:16,956 Speaker 1: stamp of the granite, the you know, the it's a 188 00:12:16,996 --> 00:12:20,156 Speaker 1: company symbol of westings I think it's either the Westinghouse 189 00:12:20,276 --> 00:12:21,956 Speaker 1: or the concrete. It does look like that's a W 190 00:12:22,196 --> 00:12:31,916 Speaker 1: though I think it's no. It says Rock of Right, 191 00:12:36,316 --> 00:12:40,196 Speaker 1: you can see what the Rock of Ages. There's a go, 192 00:12:40,476 --> 00:12:45,916 Speaker 1: this is the Rock of Ages. Holy Moses. This season 193 00:12:45,996 --> 00:12:48,836 Speaker 1: started in episode one with a crime scene in Barry, Vermont, 194 00:12:49,036 --> 00:12:51,676 Speaker 1: a place whose best known quarry is called the Rock 195 00:12:51,756 --> 00:12:55,236 Speaker 1: of Ages. And Jesus turned out that they'd supplied the 196 00:12:55,236 --> 00:12:57,876 Speaker 1: granite that made the lid to close the time capsule. 197 00:12:58,676 --> 00:13:01,356 Speaker 1: Now we'd left the last archive. We were in the 198 00:13:01,436 --> 00:13:07,796 Speaker 1: Twilight Zone. Honestly, it really freaked me out. The Rock 199 00:13:07,836 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 1: of Ages is the name of the quarry, but it's 200 00:13:10,036 --> 00:13:12,836 Speaker 1: also the title of an eighteenth century hymn, The Rock 201 00:13:12,876 --> 00:13:21,516 Speaker 1: of Ages is Jesus Christ, so weird. Also, I haven't 202 00:13:21,556 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 1: talked very much about religion in this podcast, but a 203 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:26,836 Speaker 1: certain feeling just then as we read the words Rock 204 00:13:26,876 --> 00:13:31,036 Speaker 1: of Ages engraved into stone, that feeling that some unknown 205 00:13:31,036 --> 00:13:34,396 Speaker 1: and mysterious forces in control of our lives for better 206 00:13:34,476 --> 00:13:37,356 Speaker 1: or worse. That feeling is how humans came to believe 207 00:13:37,356 --> 00:13:42,516 Speaker 1: in gods, Zeus, Saphrodite, Mars in the coronavirus crisis. That 208 00:13:42,636 --> 00:13:48,356 Speaker 1: feelings everywhere. We left Queens and Tomorrowland for the origins 209 00:13:48,356 --> 00:13:52,756 Speaker 1: of another future in the Valley of the Gods, Silicon Valley. 210 00:14:06,996 --> 00:14:09,596 Speaker 1: It's like we could be being pulled by also right now, 211 00:14:11,836 --> 00:14:18,276 Speaker 1: except it would sail then. I actually think we In 212 00:14:18,316 --> 00:14:21,836 Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty, we went to California. It was 213 00:14:21,876 --> 00:14:24,596 Speaker 1: a few weeks before the whole state shutdown, shelter in place, 214 00:14:24,716 --> 00:14:27,836 Speaker 1: locked down, before people were even talking about those things, 215 00:14:28,196 --> 00:14:31,396 Speaker 1: we were blissfully ignorant. We rented a car, got on 216 00:14:31,436 --> 00:14:33,916 Speaker 1: the highway, me and my producer Ben and my son 217 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:38,756 Speaker 1: Oliver go West. Young man. Oliver is fifteen, Cherry read 218 00:14:38,796 --> 00:14:45,236 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen Camaro convertible top down, of course, chrome wheels. 219 00:14:45,596 --> 00:14:48,356 Speaker 1: It was Oliver's birthday, and so I rented a car 220 00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:51,116 Speaker 1: that is exactly not the right car for a podcast. 221 00:14:51,796 --> 00:14:54,356 Speaker 1: But Oliver had never been to California. What are your 222 00:14:54,396 --> 00:14:59,396 Speaker 1: impressions of California? Um, it's beautiful. It looks exactly like 223 00:14:59,436 --> 00:15:04,996 Speaker 1: it did in Watchdogs Too. Every street go down, Oliver says, 224 00:15:05,036 --> 00:15:07,396 Speaker 1: I've already driven down the street. I've driven down here, 225 00:15:07,436 --> 00:15:12,636 Speaker 1: guns blazing. Watch Dogs Too is a video game set 226 00:15:12,636 --> 00:15:15,116 Speaker 1: in a perfect stimulation of the city of San Francisco. 227 00:15:16,316 --> 00:15:18,876 Speaker 1: Playing watch Dogs Too, you're part of an elite crew 228 00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:21,556 Speaker 1: of hackers who are trying to catch the guy who 229 00:15:21,716 --> 00:15:25,316 Speaker 1: killed Truth. Its plot is disturbingly like ours at the 230 00:15:25,356 --> 00:15:28,516 Speaker 1: last archive. In the video game. The guy who kills 231 00:15:28,516 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 1: Truth is basically Mark Zuckerberg, the head of a Silicon 232 00:15:31,596 --> 00:15:35,396 Speaker 1: Valley data company called Bloom Bloom CTOs, is like a 233 00:15:35,396 --> 00:15:39,636 Speaker 1: giant spider whim endlessly gathering data. They're making backroom deals 234 00:15:39,676 --> 00:15:42,876 Speaker 1: to trade our private information. We have to stop this. 235 00:15:43,436 --> 00:15:47,396 Speaker 1: We're talking data manipulation on a massive scale, ricked elections, 236 00:15:47,596 --> 00:15:52,076 Speaker 1: weapons programs, spying into people's homes, all of it controlled 237 00:15:52,116 --> 00:15:54,956 Speaker 1: by one man. Whenever I told anyone I was working 238 00:15:54,996 --> 00:15:56,796 Speaker 1: on a podcast that was trying to find out who 239 00:15:56,916 --> 00:16:01,076 Speaker 1: killed Truth, almost everyone's first answer was Donald Trump, and 240 00:16:01,196 --> 00:16:05,076 Speaker 1: almost everyone's second answer was Mark Zuckerberg. And fair enough. 241 00:16:05,436 --> 00:16:08,396 Speaker 1: He's an obvious suspect, though, so I've been avoiding him 242 00:16:08,436 --> 00:16:11,436 Speaker 1: too easy. I mean, he's the villain in a video game, 243 00:16:11,516 --> 00:16:15,996 Speaker 1: for Christ's sakes. Anyway, when my son Oliver plays Watchdogs Too, 244 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:18,836 Speaker 1: he has to drive simulated fast cars all over a 245 00:16:18,916 --> 00:16:22,076 Speaker 1: simulated San Francisco. And here I was taking him on 246 00:16:22,076 --> 00:16:24,356 Speaker 1: a trip, a birthday trip to a thrilling new city. 247 00:16:24,796 --> 00:16:27,556 Speaker 1: But everywhere we went he would be all, oh, yeah, 248 00:16:27,596 --> 00:16:29,836 Speaker 1: I've been here. There's a donut shop on the next block, 249 00:16:30,436 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: and there would be this looks literally exactly Save's Watchops. Mom. 250 00:16:33,956 --> 00:16:37,276 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have you play some Washdogs later. Okay. I 251 00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:40,476 Speaker 1: look at California. I don't see the superimposed dystopia of 252 00:16:40,556 --> 00:16:44,436 Speaker 1: Watchdogs Too. No, I'm too old for that future. My 253 00:16:44,596 --> 00:16:47,676 Speaker 1: California future, the one stuck in my mind comes straight 254 00:16:47,716 --> 00:16:51,716 Speaker 1: from the Monorail and Disneyland and it done. It's way now, 255 00:16:51,836 --> 00:16:54,716 Speaker 1: leaving frontier Land at going one hundred years into the 256 00:16:54,716 --> 00:17:02,316 Speaker 1: future to tomorrow Land. That's Ronald Reagan at the opening 257 00:17:02,356 --> 00:17:06,076 Speaker 1: of Disneyland in nineteen fifty five. The nineteen thirty nine 258 00:17:06,076 --> 00:17:09,596 Speaker 1: World's Fair was nothing compared to its successor. While Disneys 259 00:17:09,676 --> 00:17:12,876 Speaker 1: Tomorrowland built at the height of the Cold War. The 260 00:17:12,956 --> 00:17:16,076 Speaker 1: future as a space age future is an invention of 261 00:17:16,076 --> 00:17:19,996 Speaker 1: the Cold War because Cold War scientists understood themselves as 262 00:17:20,036 --> 00:17:23,756 Speaker 1: engaged in a battle for the future. Would capitalism prevail 263 00:17:23,956 --> 00:17:28,276 Speaker 1: or communism? Only science could tell. If scientists could predict 264 00:17:28,316 --> 00:17:32,756 Speaker 1: the future, then they could build it. Yes, this is Tomorrowland, 265 00:17:32,956 --> 00:17:35,156 Speaker 1: and it's not a stylized dream of the future, but 266 00:17:35,236 --> 00:17:39,956 Speaker 1: a scientifically planned projection of future techniques by leading space 267 00:17:40,076 --> 00:17:44,956 Speaker 1: experts and science. You find yourself living predictions of things 268 00:17:45,036 --> 00:17:49,236 Speaker 1: to come. A lot of Tomorrowlands popped up in California 269 00:17:49,276 --> 00:17:51,756 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, not just the one at Disneyland. 270 00:17:52,756 --> 00:17:56,116 Speaker 1: California was like a future factory, full of think tanks 271 00:17:56,196 --> 00:18:00,356 Speaker 1: charged with coming up with a general theory of the future, psychologists, 272 00:18:00,356 --> 00:18:03,796 Speaker 1: political scientists. They were trying to predict human behavior by 273 00:18:03,796 --> 00:18:07,356 Speaker 1: way of endless computer simulations by the middle of the 274 00:18:07,396 --> 00:18:11,316 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. When people pictured there, they usually pictured computers, 275 00:18:11,436 --> 00:18:14,836 Speaker 1: and they usually pictured California, where the computer industry was born. 276 00:18:15,916 --> 00:18:19,076 Speaker 1: So we drove our cherry red Camaro down Highway one 277 00:18:19,156 --> 00:18:22,396 Speaker 1: oh one to the Computer History Museum. It's in Mountain View, 278 00:18:22,436 --> 00:18:24,676 Speaker 1: a couple of blocks from the Google Blox, not too 279 00:18:24,756 --> 00:18:27,636 Speaker 1: far from Facebook. We went into museum not to look 280 00:18:27,636 --> 00:18:32,156 Speaker 1: at old computers, but to use them. So now I'm 281 00:18:32,196 --> 00:18:34,956 Speaker 1: going to hit load and it's going to start reading 282 00:18:35,036 --> 00:18:49,156 Speaker 1: the cards. That's the sound of those little shoes or 283 00:18:49,236 --> 00:18:53,196 Speaker 1: knips grabbing the cards and sliding them in. Carl Claunch 284 00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:55,516 Speaker 1: is a volunteer at the Computer History Museum. He was 285 00:18:55,516 --> 00:18:57,396 Speaker 1: showing us a punch card reader that's part of an 286 00:18:57,396 --> 00:19:01,236 Speaker 1: IBM fourteen oh one, a computer first manufactured in nineteen 287 00:19:01,276 --> 00:19:04,396 Speaker 1: fifty nine. This computer is the size of a room, 288 00:19:04,436 --> 00:19:08,316 Speaker 1: a big room, say, an elementary school classroom. I asked Claunch, 289 00:19:08,476 --> 00:19:11,076 Speaker 1: what school it's thought when they visited it? Do they 290 00:19:11,196 --> 00:19:14,116 Speaker 1: recognize this as a computer? Like? Are they just baffled 291 00:19:14,116 --> 00:19:16,916 Speaker 1: by it? Yeah? That they The docents have to tell 292 00:19:16,956 --> 00:19:20,036 Speaker 1: a story that takes them back to the nineteen fifties 293 00:19:20,116 --> 00:19:24,636 Speaker 1: and they're constantly contrasting it. So, for example, there's a 294 00:19:24,636 --> 00:19:27,796 Speaker 1: piece of core memory that's used to speed up the printer, 295 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:32,116 Speaker 1: and it's entire contents of this big block or one tweet. Yeah, 296 00:19:32,156 --> 00:19:34,556 Speaker 1: it's sort of like Honey, I shrunk the kids. Like opposite, 297 00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:37,916 Speaker 1: it's like Honey, I enlarged the computer, like it's actually 298 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:40,636 Speaker 1: a thing they know about, but blown up to this 299 00:19:40,956 --> 00:19:45,236 Speaker 1: giant proportion, like we're a little Fusians, we're inside a computer. 300 00:19:45,436 --> 00:19:47,436 Speaker 1: Like the idea of using like a reference from the 301 00:19:47,436 --> 00:19:49,876 Speaker 1: early two thousands, or really in the nineteen nineties to 302 00:19:49,956 --> 00:19:52,436 Speaker 1: explain a machine from the nineteen sixties to kids in 303 00:19:55,276 --> 00:20:00,196 Speaker 1: it wasn't Carl Clenched. He's a sweetheart, and he's also 304 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:02,956 Speaker 1: very modest, but he's much more than a volunteer at 305 00:20:02,956 --> 00:20:07,476 Speaker 1: the museum. Carl computer archaeologist. I don't have my hat. 306 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:10,476 Speaker 1: Bunch had done a whole lot of the work getting 307 00:20:10,516 --> 00:20:13,316 Speaker 1: this computer from nineteen fifty nine up and running. In 308 00:20:13,356 --> 00:20:15,556 Speaker 1: his garage, he's got an old punch card reader that 309 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:17,676 Speaker 1: can handle punch cards that are bent and even a 310 00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:21,036 Speaker 1: little tattered. And as it happens, I had some old, 311 00:20:21,076 --> 00:20:26,956 Speaker 1: screwed up punch cards that needed reading. If you've ever 312 00:20:27,036 --> 00:20:29,076 Speaker 1: punched in at work, like I used to do, that's 313 00:20:29,076 --> 00:20:31,996 Speaker 1: a punch card. Their papers the size of a business 314 00:20:31,996 --> 00:20:36,116 Speaker 1: on flope, popped up with tiny rectangular holes. Before the cloud, 315 00:20:36,156 --> 00:20:39,276 Speaker 1: before thumb drives, before hard disks and floppy disks, they 316 00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:42,556 Speaker 1: were punch cards. He stored information for a computer by 317 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:46,076 Speaker 1: encoding it in these tiny holes. We can still read 318 00:20:46,116 --> 00:20:49,756 Speaker 1: ancient parchments thousands of years later, but old punch cards 319 00:20:49,796 --> 00:20:53,076 Speaker 1: are useless after just a few decades because hardly anyone 320 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:55,476 Speaker 1: has the machines you need to read them. The past 321 00:20:55,636 --> 00:20:58,276 Speaker 1: is getting shorter and shorter, and this matters to the 322 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:01,476 Speaker 1: work I do as a historian. A few years ago 323 00:21:01,516 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 1: I found thousands of really interesting punch cards. The cards 324 00:21:04,476 --> 00:21:06,916 Speaker 1: were boxed in the files of this one company, a 325 00:21:07,036 --> 00:21:10,676 Speaker 1: very early startup called the similar Madox Corporation, and I 326 00:21:10,716 --> 00:21:14,156 Speaker 1: was writing a book about them. Simomatics was founded in 327 00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:17,756 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, a big year for computing. The name 328 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:21,796 Speaker 1: was a mashup of simulation and automatic, and Simomatics wound 329 00:21:21,876 --> 00:21:24,396 Speaker 1: up being kind of like the Cambridge Analytica of the 330 00:21:24,436 --> 00:21:29,036 Speaker 1: presidential election of nineteen sixty. MTS Archives held the Symbiomatics 331 00:21:29,076 --> 00:21:32,476 Speaker 1: punch cards, but might couldn't read them, so they ended 332 00:21:32,516 --> 00:21:35,156 Speaker 1: up shipping the cards for me to the Computer History Museum, 333 00:21:35,196 --> 00:21:40,556 Speaker 1: where Carl ran them through his ancient machine. Here's the 334 00:21:40,596 --> 00:21:43,796 Speaker 1: backstory on simiomatics, some of what you've already heard if 335 00:21:43,796 --> 00:21:46,916 Speaker 1: you've been a steadfast listener to the last archive. He 336 00:21:47,036 --> 00:21:49,516 Speaker 1: might remember in episode five, how we talked about the 337 00:21:49,596 --> 00:21:52,996 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two election, where CBS hired a computer called 338 00:21:53,116 --> 00:21:56,796 Speaker 1: Univac to predict the results on election night. Well, a 339 00:21:56,876 --> 00:22:00,756 Speaker 1: Madison Avenue admin named Ed Greenfield, learning about the UNIVAC, 340 00:22:01,116 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: got the idea of helping the candidate win an election 341 00:22:03,756 --> 00:22:07,076 Speaker 1: by building a massive computer simulation that could predict how 342 00:22:07,116 --> 00:22:10,236 Speaker 1: people would vote. And then, four years later, in nineteen 343 00:22:10,316 --> 00:22:13,316 Speaker 1: fifty six, Greenfield got a contract from the Adlai Stephenson 344 00:22:13,356 --> 00:22:17,196 Speaker 1: campaign when Stephenson was trying once again to beat Eisenhower, 345 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:24,956 Speaker 1: a man who can believe Ah yeah, Well, first, Stephenson 346 00:22:24,996 --> 00:22:27,636 Speaker 1: had to win the Democratic nomination, and to do that 347 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:29,996 Speaker 1: he had to win the California primary, a big state 348 00:22:30,036 --> 00:22:33,956 Speaker 1: whose population was booming. Greenfield hired a bunch of people 349 00:22:33,996 --> 00:22:38,316 Speaker 1: in California, including two political scientists, and helped Stephenson win 350 00:22:38,396 --> 00:22:42,276 Speaker 1: the state's primary and then the nomination, but he couldn't 351 00:22:42,276 --> 00:22:46,116 Speaker 1: help Stephenson win the election. As evening returns come in, 352 00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:49,476 Speaker 1: the trend is unmistakable. It's Eisenhower by a landslide with 353 00:22:49,596 --> 00:22:52,876 Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty seven electoral votes to seventy four 354 00:22:53,116 --> 00:22:57,236 Speaker 1: or Stephenson. The admen and their computers couldn't save Adlai 355 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 1: Stevenson in nineteen fifty six, but his loss didn't slow 356 00:23:00,596 --> 00:23:03,396 Speaker 1: them down. Ed Greenfield started gearing up for the election 357 00:23:03,396 --> 00:23:07,036 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty. He hired people who'd done psychological warfare 358 00:23:07,076 --> 00:23:12,356 Speaker 1: for the military, driving people to traction targeting messages, attention manipulation. 359 00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:16,276 Speaker 1: One of those guys was the mathematician Alex Bernstein. There's 360 00:23:16,276 --> 00:23:19,836 Speaker 1: a great film from nineteen fifty nine called Thinking Machines. 361 00:23:20,156 --> 00:23:22,836 Speaker 1: What can we learn about Thinking from a game of Chess? 362 00:23:23,356 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 1: It shows a bespectacled Bernstein playing chess against a room 363 00:23:26,396 --> 00:23:30,076 Speaker 1: sized computer. All it takes her some printers, magnetic tape, 364 00:23:30,396 --> 00:23:34,436 Speaker 1: and a chessboard. Mister Bernstein and his collaborators prepared a 365 00:23:34,516 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 1: chess playing program for the IBM seven O four, a 366 00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:42,556 Speaker 1: digital computer that has performed one billion calculations in a 367 00:23:42,636 --> 00:23:46,476 Speaker 1: single day. It's never absent minded and never makes an 368 00:23:46,476 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 1: obvious plunder. Bernstein helped create a field that became known 369 00:23:50,116 --> 00:23:54,596 Speaker 1: as artificial intelligence. For the presidential campaign of nineteen sixty, 370 00:23:54,956 --> 00:23:58,156 Speaker 1: he and Ed Greenfield at Cymblematics, they built this thing 371 00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:01,276 Speaker 1: called a People Machine who was programmed with punch cards 372 00:24:01,276 --> 00:24:05,276 Speaker 1: in very early for Tran, an ancient computer language. There 373 00:24:05,276 --> 00:24:08,156 Speaker 1: were data cards too. Each card the cards I found 374 00:24:08,156 --> 00:24:11,036 Speaker 1: in the archives. The cards only Carl Quanch could now read. 375 00:24:11,436 --> 00:24:17,716 Speaker 1: Each represented an imaginary American age, place of residence, economic class, race, gender, 376 00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 1: political persuasion. Here was a Similematox Company's vision of the future. 377 00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:26,116 Speaker 1: One day computers would be able to predict human behavior 378 00:24:26,156 --> 00:24:28,276 Speaker 1: and manipulate it. There'd be a lot of money to 379 00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:30,596 Speaker 1: be made. There'd be a lot of power to accumulate. 380 00:24:31,156 --> 00:24:34,356 Speaker 1: Greenfield thought Dlea. Stevenson would run again in nineteen sixty, 381 00:24:34,556 --> 00:24:38,116 Speaker 1: and he wanted Stephenson to use his People Machine. And here, 382 00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:40,556 Speaker 1: just here is a snag in the fabric of time. 383 00:24:41,556 --> 00:24:44,316 Speaker 1: First of all, Stephenson did not run for a third time. 384 00:24:44,676 --> 00:24:47,876 Speaker 1: He only almost ran. But also some of the people 385 00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 1: who got Greenfield's confidential memo about the People Machine, they 386 00:24:51,636 --> 00:24:55,596 Speaker 1: thought christ On toast this thing should be illegal. One 387 00:24:55,636 --> 00:24:58,436 Speaker 1: of the people Greenfield sent this proposal too was Stevenson's 388 00:24:58,476 --> 00:25:02,036 Speaker 1: law partner, Newton Minnow. Minnow is a really important person 389 00:25:02,076 --> 00:25:03,676 Speaker 1: because he'd go on to be the chairman of the 390 00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:09,116 Speaker 1: FCC under the Kennedy administration. Greenfield's proposal freaked Minnow out. 391 00:25:09,636 --> 00:25:14,476 Speaker 1: Dear Arthur, do you remember ed Greenfield? Minno wrote a 392 00:25:14,516 --> 00:25:17,156 Speaker 1: letter to the very eminent Pultzer Prize winning Harvard historian 393 00:25:17,476 --> 00:25:23,196 Speaker 1: Arthur Slessinger Junior about Greenfield's dangerous idea. Without prejudicing your judgment, 394 00:25:23,836 --> 00:25:27,556 Speaker 1: my own opinion is that such a thing A cannot work, 395 00:25:27,916 --> 00:25:33,596 Speaker 1: b is immoral, c should be declared illegal. Please advise 396 00:25:34,316 --> 00:25:40,476 Speaker 1: best regards, Newton n Minnow. Slessinger wrote right back, Dear Newt, 397 00:25:40,876 --> 00:25:44,276 Speaker 1: I have pretty much your feelings. I shudder at the 398 00:25:44,316 --> 00:25:48,396 Speaker 1: implications for public leadership of the nation. On the other hand, 399 00:25:48,436 --> 00:25:51,036 Speaker 1: I do believe in science and don't like to be 400 00:25:51,116 --> 00:25:56,676 Speaker 1: a party to choking off new ideas. Yours ever, Arthur Slessinger, 401 00:25:57,476 --> 00:26:00,996 Speaker 1: The People Machine, needless to say, was not declared illegal. 402 00:26:01,156 --> 00:26:04,996 Speaker 1: It went ahead. The Democratic National Committee hired Sineomatics, and 403 00:26:05,076 --> 00:26:08,116 Speaker 1: when John F. Kennedy won the nomination, the Kennedy campaign 404 00:26:08,236 --> 00:26:12,956 Speaker 1: hired Cineomatics and then unexpectedly delayed climax saw sent to 405 00:26:13,036 --> 00:26:15,716 Speaker 1: Kennedy the victor with a clear margin of Electromo vote. 406 00:26:16,996 --> 00:26:20,756 Speaker 1: Years and years later, I found symblematics original punch cards, 407 00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:23,836 Speaker 1: the punch cards it used to simulate the nineteen sixty election. 408 00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,956 Speaker 1: I figured if I could read them, or rather get 409 00:26:27,036 --> 00:26:30,716 Speaker 1: Carl Claunch computer archaeologists to read them, I could understand 410 00:26:30,716 --> 00:26:34,476 Speaker 1: how this thing worked and know whether it worked. So 411 00:26:34,956 --> 00:26:37,476 Speaker 1: Carl read the cards on his ancient equipment. But we 412 00:26:37,556 --> 00:26:40,236 Speaker 1: hit another snag. We got the data off the cards, 413 00:26:40,276 --> 00:26:42,476 Speaker 1: but then we couldn't get the Fortran program to run. 414 00:26:44,276 --> 00:26:48,556 Speaker 1: Knowledge on computer's decays becomes obsolete. You find your grandmother's 415 00:26:48,596 --> 00:26:50,916 Speaker 1: photo albums in aerratic. You can look at the photographs. 416 00:26:51,156 --> 00:26:54,276 Speaker 1: You don't need a special program. Will your grandchildren never 417 00:26:54,316 --> 00:26:56,116 Speaker 1: be able to see the photographs you've got stored on 418 00:26:56,156 --> 00:26:59,356 Speaker 1: your computer. Not likely, They'll have been lost in a 419 00:26:59,436 --> 00:27:03,156 Speaker 1: forgotten sludge of obsolete file name extensions and hard drives 420 00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:08,396 Speaker 1: and operating systems and disused connectors. There's a weird foreshortening 421 00:27:08,396 --> 00:27:11,116 Speaker 1: of history going on. I think that's one reason people, 422 00:27:11,276 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 1: or at least people like me. Why would get obsessed 423 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:17,356 Speaker 1: with time capsules? Everything just seems to be slipping away 424 00:27:17,356 --> 00:27:21,316 Speaker 1: all the time. If data has replaced facts is the 425 00:27:21,356 --> 00:27:25,756 Speaker 1: elemental unit of knowledge. That's a problem, because data it's 426 00:27:25,876 --> 00:27:30,836 Speaker 1: unbelievably shoddy. It just doesn't last anyway. Even with my 427 00:27:30,876 --> 00:27:34,036 Speaker 1: punch cards read, I couldn't get the Symbiomatics program to run. 428 00:27:34,516 --> 00:27:37,996 Speaker 1: I was sad. But fortunately I had more reliable and 429 00:27:38,076 --> 00:27:42,796 Speaker 1: durable evidence than punch cards. I had newspapers, stock certificates, 430 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:45,316 Speaker 1: and letters, so I was able to figure out what 431 00:27:45,476 --> 00:27:48,876 Speaker 1: happened next. John F. Kennedy settles into office as a 432 00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:52,076 Speaker 1: thirty fifth President of the United States, the youngest man 433 00:27:52,156 --> 00:27:54,996 Speaker 1: on the first Roman Catholic ever elected to the office. 434 00:27:55,436 --> 00:27:58,556 Speaker 1: After Kennedy was inaugurated, Simiomatics went public with a big, 435 00:27:58,756 --> 00:28:02,516 Speaker 1: splashy vision for changing the world. The company proposes to 436 00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:06,556 Speaker 1: engage principally in estimating probable human behavior by the use 437 00:28:06,596 --> 00:28:11,036 Speaker 1: of computer technology. For this purpose, it may utilize information 438 00:28:11,076 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 1: derived from public opinion polls and other sources concerning the 439 00:28:14,316 --> 00:28:18,356 Speaker 1: composition and attitudes of the group understudy that summer. Summer 440 00:28:18,356 --> 00:28:21,716 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty one, the scientists of the Cymomatics Corporation 441 00:28:21,916 --> 00:28:24,396 Speaker 1: met on a beach on Long Island, where they worked 442 00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:27,236 Speaker 1: beneath a geodesic dome that looked as if it had 443 00:28:27,276 --> 00:28:29,956 Speaker 1: come from the future and crashed half buried in the 444 00:28:29,996 --> 00:28:33,996 Speaker 1: sand like a time capsule. They were perfecting their people 445 00:28:33,996 --> 00:28:37,356 Speaker 1: machine to predict and manipulate all sorts of human behavior, 446 00:28:37,556 --> 00:28:40,556 Speaker 1: not just voting, but things like buying a dishwasher too. 447 00:28:42,756 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 1: The scientists are preparing to work with electronic computers the 448 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:51,716 Speaker 1: Giant question answering devices in use for some years, but 449 00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:56,316 Speaker 1: are using social and economic data and their own knowledge 450 00:28:56,436 --> 00:29:04,276 Speaker 1: to work out new programs for computer simulation. Facebook, Palenteer, Amazon, 451 00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:08,556 Speaker 1: the Internet research agency Google. It's as if each of 452 00:29:08,556 --> 00:29:11,476 Speaker 1: these companies emerged out of that time capsule that was 453 00:29:11,516 --> 00:29:15,596 Speaker 1: buried so long ago by the scientists of the Sinemomatics Corporation. 454 00:29:17,156 --> 00:29:20,836 Speaker 1: One Guy Eugene, political scientist from UC Berkeley, who'd worked 455 00:29:20,836 --> 00:29:25,436 Speaker 1: on the Stephenson campaign, refused to join Sinmomatics. Instead, he 456 00:29:25,516 --> 00:29:29,236 Speaker 1: became its fiercest critic. In nineteen sixty four, he called 457 00:29:29,236 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 1: the corporation a new underworld. Most of these people are 458 00:29:32,676 --> 00:29:36,036 Speaker 1: highly educated, many of them are PhDs, and none that 459 00:29:36,076 --> 00:29:39,956 Speaker 1: I've met of malignant political designs on the American public. 460 00:29:40,756 --> 00:29:46,076 Speaker 1: They may, however, radically reconstruct the American political system, build 461 00:29:46,116 --> 00:29:51,276 Speaker 1: a new politics, and even modify revered and venerable American institutions, 462 00:29:51,716 --> 00:29:56,676 Speaker 1: facts of which they are blissfully innocent. The scientists of 463 00:29:56,676 --> 00:30:01,356 Speaker 1: cinematics invented our data mad future. If the world daily 464 00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:04,676 Speaker 1: life sometimes feels unreal to you, it feels that way 465 00:30:04,676 --> 00:30:09,796 Speaker 1: to me, maybe especially lately, so simulated, and you you're 466 00:30:09,916 --> 00:30:14,916 Speaker 1: very self so targeted. Remember sinmomatics and when and how 467 00:30:15,076 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 1: this started with a people machine. Forget Donald Trump and 468 00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:22,716 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg and the rest of them, at least for 469 00:30:22,716 --> 00:30:27,316 Speaker 1: a minute, because I wonder, did the sinehomatics guys, these 470 00:30:27,396 --> 00:30:33,276 Speaker 1: masters of simulation, did they kill truth by accident? We 471 00:30:33,276 --> 00:30:35,636 Speaker 1: had one more stop on our road trip to find out. 472 00:30:46,476 --> 00:30:48,876 Speaker 1: Califorida just always looks to me like a playmo city, 473 00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:53,076 Speaker 1: like a playmobile city, Like there's like one of every vehicle. 474 00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:57,076 Speaker 1: The roads are really clean and straight, the hills are green. 475 00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:00,556 Speaker 1: I love the hills though, they like looking at a 476 00:31:00,636 --> 00:31:04,236 Speaker 1: street and just seeing like and then like all the 477 00:31:04,396 --> 00:31:06,916 Speaker 1: houses that like are like seemed to be above each other. 478 00:31:08,036 --> 00:31:10,356 Speaker 1: Oliver Ben and I love Mountain View and the computer 479 00:31:10,436 --> 00:31:13,836 Speaker 1: History Museum, and I headed back to San Francisco. On 480 00:31:13,876 --> 00:31:16,236 Speaker 1: that drive, we sort of stumbled into the third most 481 00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:18,996 Speaker 1: streequent answer I get when I ask people who killed truth? 482 00:31:19,556 --> 00:31:22,516 Speaker 1: Some people say Trump, some people say Zuckerberg, and then 483 00:31:22,556 --> 00:31:27,236 Speaker 1: some people say, poh. Postmodernism slightly less obvious, but still 484 00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:32,796 Speaker 1: a prime suspect. So I've been avoiding postmodernism. Postmodernism, nothing 485 00:31:32,876 --> 00:31:35,756 Speaker 1: is real. Everything refers to something else. But then it's 486 00:31:35,836 --> 00:31:38,796 Speaker 1: references all the way down, and at the bottom there's 487 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:41,876 Speaker 1: really nothing. I don't think of myself as someone with 488 00:31:41,916 --> 00:31:45,396 Speaker 1: a postmodern sensibility. Do you watch the streets of San Francisco? 489 00:31:46,076 --> 00:31:50,036 Speaker 1: The streets of San Francisco, except, of course I do 490 00:31:50,116 --> 00:31:55,476 Speaker 1: have a postmodern sensibility, Like San Francisco is gold Russian mining. No, 491 00:31:55,836 --> 00:32:02,796 Speaker 1: my god, it's very young, beautiful Michael Douglas, Carl Walden, Yeah, 492 00:32:02,796 --> 00:32:05,836 Speaker 1: it was prospectors, you know my people. Well, anyway, in 493 00:32:05,836 --> 00:32:08,716 Speaker 1: the streets of San Francisco. So Michael Douglas plays this 494 00:32:08,876 --> 00:32:12,316 Speaker 1: young University of California Berkeley, either graduate or drop out, 495 00:32:12,436 --> 00:32:17,116 Speaker 1: and Karl Malden is this kind of grizzled older detective 496 00:32:17,876 --> 00:32:20,356 Speaker 1: and he always just calls them college boy. And he's 497 00:32:20,556 --> 00:32:25,276 Speaker 1: kind of got this gritty voice, and their partners and 498 00:32:25,356 --> 00:32:30,316 Speaker 1: they solve crimes. Sounds terrible. And there you go driving 499 00:32:30,316 --> 00:32:32,556 Speaker 1: around all the time. They're always in these car chases, 500 00:32:32,596 --> 00:32:34,956 Speaker 1: and it kind of like gets lofted all the time 501 00:32:34,996 --> 00:32:36,956 Speaker 1: when they go over the hills because they're going so fast. 502 00:32:37,236 --> 00:32:38,876 Speaker 1: This is exactly the kind of thing that happens in 503 00:32:38,916 --> 00:32:42,236 Speaker 1: Midtown Madness. Oh yeah, so maybe I think that's Drive 504 00:32:42,396 --> 00:32:46,836 Speaker 1: and watch Dogs Too. Okay. On that drive, we got 505 00:32:46,836 --> 00:32:49,356 Speaker 1: into something of an argument about which was the best 506 00:32:49,436 --> 00:32:53,436 Speaker 1: simulation of San Francisco, watch Dogs Too, or another video 507 00:32:53,476 --> 00:32:58,236 Speaker 1: game that Ben likes called Midtown Madness, or My Beloved 508 00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:01,556 Speaker 1: Streets of San Francisco, which got us in a roundabout 509 00:33:01,596 --> 00:33:05,476 Speaker 1: way to postmodernism. They're currently following the New Matrix in 510 00:33:05,556 --> 00:33:10,076 Speaker 1: San Francisco. Wow. The Matrix, of course, is a film 511 00:33:10,116 --> 00:33:13,196 Speaker 1: about how we're all living in a computer simulation. In 512 00:33:13,276 --> 00:33:15,436 Speaker 1: an early scene in the film, our hero played by 513 00:33:15,556 --> 00:33:18,716 Speaker 1: Keanu Reeves, hides a computer disc in a holiday copy 514 00:33:18,756 --> 00:33:22,596 Speaker 1: of a book by the French postmodernist Jean Beaudriard. The 515 00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:27,916 Speaker 1: book is called Simulacra and Simulation. Baudriard writes the simulacrum 516 00:33:27,996 --> 00:33:30,036 Speaker 1: is never that which conceals the truth. It is the 517 00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:34,316 Speaker 1: truth which conceals that there is none. Apparently this book 518 00:33:34,436 --> 00:33:38,356 Speaker 1: was the filmmaker's gospel. The Matrix is everywhere, It is 519 00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:42,036 Speaker 1: all around us. It is the world that has been 520 00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:47,396 Speaker 1: pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 521 00:33:47,476 --> 00:33:51,716 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. This stuff drives me bonkers. Also, don't 522 00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:54,636 Speaker 1: sue me, but the Matrix is totally derivative of a 523 00:33:54,716 --> 00:33:58,036 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three movie called World un Awire that was 524 00:33:58,076 --> 00:34:01,316 Speaker 1: an adaptation of a nineteen sixty four novel called Simulacron 525 00:34:01,396 --> 00:34:07,316 Speaker 1: three that was about simblematics. So everything is about the 526 00:34:07,316 --> 00:34:10,476 Speaker 1: simulation of reality. We were in a simulation of a 527 00:34:10,556 --> 00:34:15,756 Speaker 1: simulation of a simulation and the look, I admit it. 528 00:34:15,756 --> 00:34:18,716 Speaker 1: We had gone to California mainly out of desperation. You 529 00:34:18,956 --> 00:34:21,796 Speaker 1: try answering the question who killed Truth in ten episodes. 530 00:34:22,556 --> 00:34:25,036 Speaker 1: Plus it was winter back home and California is so 531 00:34:25,116 --> 00:34:28,196 Speaker 1: beautiful and warm. But it turned out we really did 532 00:34:28,236 --> 00:34:31,196 Speaker 1: find a lot of answers in California. Everything did seem 533 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:35,556 Speaker 1: somehow to be coming together like magic. History often works 534 00:34:35,596 --> 00:34:37,796 Speaker 1: that way. He lined things up on a timeline, and 535 00:34:37,916 --> 00:34:42,356 Speaker 1: suddenly things make sense, because chronology really is like gravity. 536 00:34:43,836 --> 00:34:46,516 Speaker 1: Here's the timeline of tomorrow as I was starting to 537 00:34:46,516 --> 00:34:50,396 Speaker 1: see it. In the nineteen fifties, all Tomorrowlands were happy 538 00:34:50,396 --> 00:34:54,116 Speaker 1: tomorrow Lands. By the nineteen sixties, they were happy tomorrow 539 00:34:54,156 --> 00:34:58,996 Speaker 1: Lands and unhappy tomorrow Lands. By the nineteen seventies, Tomorrowland 540 00:34:59,396 --> 00:35:02,916 Speaker 1: didn't look like such a happy place after all. One book, 541 00:35:03,156 --> 00:35:06,396 Speaker 1: Future Shock, a bestseller by a futurist named Alvin Toffler, 542 00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:12,156 Speaker 1: said it best Future Shock. There's a sickness which comes 543 00:35:12,156 --> 00:35:16,516 Speaker 1: from too much change, too short of time. Worse and 544 00:35:16,596 --> 00:35:19,556 Speaker 1: Wells narrated the movie version. It's the reaction to change 545 00:35:19,596 --> 00:35:23,876 Speaker 1: that didn't happened so fast that the cat saw of them. 546 00:35:24,036 --> 00:35:31,236 Speaker 1: It's the premature arrival at the future. Driving around California 547 00:35:31,316 --> 00:35:34,676 Speaker 1: and ridiculous red convertible, we were suffering from plenty of 548 00:35:34,716 --> 00:35:38,516 Speaker 1: future shock. We had one more stop, stop number three 549 00:35:38,836 --> 00:35:41,196 Speaker 1: started the bull on the right are here now? It's 550 00:35:41,236 --> 00:35:45,556 Speaker 1: like a little ways up on the right. Okay, I've 551 00:35:45,556 --> 00:35:48,916 Speaker 1: got a hardy going there. Your destination is on the right. 552 00:35:51,676 --> 00:35:54,716 Speaker 1: I don't know what the museum now. I think we're 553 00:35:54,716 --> 00:35:59,356 Speaker 1: going to the office office Bow. We pulled up outside 554 00:35:59,396 --> 00:36:03,076 Speaker 1: the Internet Archive near Golden Gate Park. I thought maybe 555 00:36:03,116 --> 00:36:05,796 Speaker 1: this archive would have some kind of antidote to future shock. 556 00:36:06,516 --> 00:36:09,076 Speaker 1: It's hard to think of any place else that's done 557 00:36:09,196 --> 00:36:11,916 Speaker 1: so much to use technology to preserve our digital past 558 00:36:12,276 --> 00:36:16,156 Speaker 1: instead of just letting it disintegrates. They were walking into 559 00:36:16,156 --> 00:36:21,236 Speaker 1: it looks like a church, monitor church. It's huge. Yeah, 560 00:36:21,676 --> 00:36:35,876 Speaker 1: these large columns out front. Yeah, welcome. I'm Brewster. Brewster 561 00:36:35,996 --> 00:36:38,396 Speaker 1: Kill is a digital librarian and founder of the Internet 562 00:36:38,516 --> 00:36:42,436 Speaker 1: Archive Archives. Everything you want old time radio dramas, they've 563 00:36:42,436 --> 00:36:44,996 Speaker 1: got them. You want video of Alex Bernstein playing chess 564 00:36:44,996 --> 00:36:47,876 Speaker 1: against a computer, they've got it. You want old video 565 00:36:47,916 --> 00:36:50,756 Speaker 1: games and the systems they're played on, Grateful Dead recordings, 566 00:36:50,836 --> 00:36:54,836 Speaker 1: Russian audiobooks, tractor manuals, the issue of thrilling wonder stories 567 00:36:54,876 --> 00:36:57,356 Speaker 1: where we read warning from the past. They've got it 568 00:36:57,396 --> 00:37:01,116 Speaker 1: all in digital form. Kill showed us around the lobby. 569 00:37:01,316 --> 00:37:04,956 Speaker 1: So you want to crank it up? Yeah? So what 570 00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:07,836 Speaker 1: is this from this Victor? This is a Victor talking machine. 571 00:37:07,836 --> 00:37:14,156 Speaker 1: Five yep. So we undo this break and we put 572 00:37:14,156 --> 00:37:32,276 Speaker 1: down the needle. Sounds pretty good, huh. That front room 573 00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:34,956 Speaker 1: looked like the entrance to a post office, A post 574 00:37:34,956 --> 00:37:38,676 Speaker 1: office with old phonographs and also old video games. We 575 00:37:38,716 --> 00:37:45,636 Speaker 1: look at some city. Yeah, there's some city. Uh, name 576 00:37:45,716 --> 00:37:51,116 Speaker 1: your city. The last archive, last archive, let's put it 577 00:37:51,236 --> 00:37:54,796 Speaker 1: in an earthquake zone. Yeah. Then call brought us upstairs 578 00:37:54,796 --> 00:37:56,756 Speaker 1: into the main hall of the church. There was a 579 00:37:56,756 --> 00:37:59,316 Speaker 1: beautiful altar in the front, and in the back in 580 00:37:59,396 --> 00:38:06,396 Speaker 1: the nave giant servers. Oliver, those are those are servers 581 00:38:07,196 --> 00:38:09,996 Speaker 1: of the two hundredth most popular web site in the world. 582 00:38:11,156 --> 00:38:14,756 Speaker 1: It's about fifteen petabytes out of the sixty petabytes are 583 00:38:14,756 --> 00:38:18,956 Speaker 1: the ones on the other side. Here wee archive dot org. 584 00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:22,276 Speaker 1: So every time a light blink is somebody uploading something 585 00:38:22,356 --> 00:38:26,076 Speaker 1: or downloading something to the Internet archive. So it's actually 586 00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:29,836 Speaker 1: you never get to see somebody's servers, right. The ideas 587 00:38:29,836 --> 00:38:31,996 Speaker 1: to try to put kind of a human face on 588 00:38:32,116 --> 00:38:35,796 Speaker 1: what it is we're building, because that way we'll actually 589 00:38:35,916 --> 00:38:39,236 Speaker 1: want to preserve it and keep it going. We stood 590 00:38:39,236 --> 00:38:41,556 Speaker 1: there for a bit, watching the lights flicker, the archive 591 00:38:41,636 --> 00:38:45,636 Speaker 1: growing vaster. Then we headed downstairs to the basement to 592 00:38:45,676 --> 00:38:48,196 Speaker 1: the main office and sat down with Kale in a 593 00:38:48,236 --> 00:38:50,756 Speaker 1: conference room. I told him we've been thinking a lot 594 00:38:50,756 --> 00:38:54,676 Speaker 1: about simulated worlds and time capsules, prophecies of the future. 595 00:38:55,316 --> 00:38:58,636 Speaker 1: He doesn't have much use for time capsules. It's libraries 596 00:38:58,636 --> 00:39:01,756 Speaker 1: are all about having new things discovered such they're worthy 597 00:39:01,756 --> 00:39:04,476 Speaker 1: of being put in a library. Time capsule is a 598 00:39:05,916 --> 00:39:10,276 Speaker 1: vanity project of a particular time. Really actually probably doesn't 599 00:39:10,276 --> 00:39:13,196 Speaker 1: even intend to be opened, or who cares if it's opened. 600 00:39:13,196 --> 00:39:16,276 Speaker 1: It's all about the people being photographed with it at 601 00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:20,076 Speaker 1: the time. Aren't they important? Right? Who cares? No one 602 00:39:20,076 --> 00:39:24,796 Speaker 1: will care. Most time capsules get forgotten. Also, who locks 603 00:39:24,836 --> 00:39:29,076 Speaker 1: away knowledge? Who buries knowledge? It's kind of nuts. The 604 00:39:29,156 --> 00:39:32,036 Speaker 1: Internet archive is something very different. The vision of the 605 00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:33,836 Speaker 1: Internet that I signed on too is to try to 606 00:39:33,876 --> 00:39:37,716 Speaker 1: build the Library of Everything, the digital Library of Alexandria, 607 00:39:37,796 --> 00:39:41,716 Speaker 1: the universal access to all knowledge. This show is about 608 00:39:41,756 --> 00:39:44,756 Speaker 1: why it seems so hard lately to know things, but 609 00:39:44,836 --> 00:39:47,396 Speaker 1: of course it should be so much easier lately to 610 00:39:47,476 --> 00:39:51,356 Speaker 1: know things, not least because of the Internet. This giant 611 00:39:51,516 --> 00:39:56,316 Speaker 1: free library. Books can last for centuries. The average life 612 00:39:56,316 --> 00:39:58,956 Speaker 1: of the webpage, though, is just one hundred days. And 613 00:39:58,956 --> 00:40:03,076 Speaker 1: then poof so Kale built this thing called the wayback Machine. 614 00:40:03,516 --> 00:40:07,076 Speaker 1: It takes a snapshot of the entire Internet constantly. It 615 00:40:07,236 --> 00:40:11,196 Speaker 1: is literally a last archive. It's now, oh, I don't 616 00:40:11,236 --> 00:40:17,476 Speaker 1: eight hundred billion. URL's four hundred billion pages. It's used 617 00:40:17,476 --> 00:40:21,836 Speaker 1: by hundreds of thousands of people every day. As Kale 618 00:40:21,836 --> 00:40:23,716 Speaker 1: sees that, the Internet was meant to be one thing, 619 00:40:23,796 --> 00:40:27,196 Speaker 1: a library, and it's still that, but with a rise 620 00:40:27,196 --> 00:40:30,476 Speaker 1: of social media, it became something else. It became a 621 00:40:30,516 --> 00:40:33,916 Speaker 1: people machine designed to capture and hold your attention, to 622 00:40:34,076 --> 00:40:38,676 Speaker 1: substitute a simulation of reality for the actual thing. I think, 623 00:40:38,716 --> 00:40:41,716 Speaker 1: really yeah, it's maybe the sort of late nineties, early 624 00:40:41,756 --> 00:40:47,276 Speaker 1: two thousands when when we've talked about these great terms 625 00:40:47,276 --> 00:40:50,396 Speaker 1: like eyeballs, right, what you really need is eyeballs for 626 00:40:50,516 --> 00:40:53,436 Speaker 1: your service, and we need sticky eyeballs right to go. 627 00:40:55,436 --> 00:40:58,756 Speaker 1: It is just gross. And there's another problem, a problem 628 00:40:58,876 --> 00:41:02,556 Speaker 1: Kale hasn't solved, a problem no one has solved. When 629 00:41:02,596 --> 00:41:05,596 Speaker 1: you search on the Internet, you don't search. A machine 630 00:41:05,636 --> 00:41:09,316 Speaker 1: searches how people want new things. How you found out 631 00:41:09,316 --> 00:41:12,396 Speaker 1: truth was he did your own searching. But on the 632 00:41:12,436 --> 00:41:15,116 Speaker 1: Internet it's too big. You can't do your own searching. 633 00:41:15,836 --> 00:41:19,396 Speaker 1: Google co founder Larry Page once predicted that eventually you'll 634 00:41:19,436 --> 00:41:21,836 Speaker 1: have this implant where if you think about a fact, 635 00:41:21,876 --> 00:41:24,916 Speaker 1: it will just tell you the answer. But that's not thinking, 636 00:41:25,356 --> 00:41:27,236 Speaker 1: and it's a part, even if it's only a little 637 00:41:27,276 --> 00:41:29,956 Speaker 1: part of why. It sometimes feels as though the world 638 00:41:30,596 --> 00:41:35,236 Speaker 1: he isn't quite real. We say goodbye to the archivists 639 00:41:35,236 --> 00:41:37,436 Speaker 1: of the Internet, feeling a little like Neo in the 640 00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:42,036 Speaker 1: matrix when he first gets unplugged. We're like orson Welles 641 00:41:42,316 --> 00:41:47,636 Speaker 1: suffering from future shock. The impact of future shock does 642 00:41:47,676 --> 00:41:51,956 Speaker 1: not depend on the nature of its victims. They are 643 00:41:52,036 --> 00:41:57,196 Speaker 1: everywhere future shock. That's crap. We aren't victims of the future, 644 00:41:57,916 --> 00:42:00,956 Speaker 1: stuck in some lunatic tomorrow land or locked in a 645 00:42:01,036 --> 00:42:05,036 Speaker 1: time capsule. Even if we're quarantined in our houses. The 646 00:42:05,116 --> 00:42:08,436 Speaker 1: future isn't something that happens to us. It's something we make. 647 00:42:09,356 --> 00:42:12,796 Speaker 1: Who killed truth? Who decided it was okay to ignore 648 00:42:12,796 --> 00:42:15,436 Speaker 1: the past, to erase the past, or let it become unreadable, 649 00:42:16,116 --> 00:42:19,756 Speaker 1: to make everything about the future and simulation and prediction. 650 00:42:20,996 --> 00:42:24,196 Speaker 1: I had one more place to look. We headed home, 651 00:42:24,796 --> 00:42:28,436 Speaker 1: all the way home, back to where we started, a 652 00:42:28,516 --> 00:42:32,356 Speaker 1: short walk from my office, just when everything began to 653 00:42:32,356 --> 00:42:37,516 Speaker 1: shut down. Okay, little anticlimactic, like just a dorm room. Yeah, 654 00:42:37,876 --> 00:42:41,276 Speaker 1: the students just moved out of here. There's no just 655 00:42:41,356 --> 00:42:45,996 Speaker 1: the sort of prefabricated dorm room furniture like slightly higher 656 00:42:46,036 --> 00:42:51,556 Speaker 1: quality than cinder block wall. Not such good light. But 657 00:42:51,676 --> 00:42:54,316 Speaker 1: this is where it happened. This is where Facebook was born. 658 00:42:54,676 --> 00:42:59,676 Speaker 1: For face smash, Are you hotter? Are you not? We'd 659 00:42:59,716 --> 00:43:02,836 Speaker 1: gone to Mark Zuckerberg's old Harvard dorm room. All the 660 00:43:02,916 --> 00:43:08,636 Speaker 1: dorms were emptied out, the students all gone evacuated. So 661 00:43:08,796 --> 00:43:10,996 Speaker 1: what what was your what was your grand vision for 662 00:43:11,236 --> 00:43:14,276 Speaker 1: bringing us here? I thought there would be flames, like 663 00:43:14,396 --> 00:43:20,356 Speaker 1: licking the walls of veneer of Hell. I don't know, 664 00:43:20,556 --> 00:43:23,236 Speaker 1: I just you know, I think about that moment of 665 00:43:25,596 --> 00:43:31,316 Speaker 1: ditching your education to go make piles of money always 666 00:43:31,356 --> 00:43:33,756 Speaker 1: troubles me, Like if you could go back in time, 667 00:43:36,796 --> 00:43:40,236 Speaker 1: was there a different route? But I guess ryans aren't 668 00:43:40,236 --> 00:43:49,476 Speaker 1: supposed to ask those questions. Those counterfactuals addresser but a 669 00:43:49,556 --> 00:43:52,676 Speaker 1: little desk that nobody uses because everybody sets a laptop. 670 00:43:54,316 --> 00:43:56,916 Speaker 1: This is weird. I don't remember this door being here 671 00:43:56,956 --> 00:44:02,636 Speaker 1: when we came in. Did you see this dark green door? No? No? 672 00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:06,316 Speaker 1: And everything else is just that bland security deposit white? 673 00:44:07,996 --> 00:44:09,956 Speaker 1: Why aren't there? We are in the middle of the 674 00:44:10,556 --> 00:44:26,196 Speaker 1: hallway to this dorm room. Can we go through? Okay? Oh? No, 675 00:44:27,396 --> 00:44:31,356 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what has happened? How are we? How 676 00:44:31,356 --> 00:44:34,796 Speaker 1: did we get back here? Is this the last archive? 677 00:44:36,916 --> 00:44:40,196 Speaker 1: There's a secret passageway from Mark zucker Brook's old dorm 678 00:44:40,276 --> 00:44:43,396 Speaker 1: room into the West Archive. Oh my god, thank god, 679 00:44:43,436 --> 00:44:49,916 Speaker 1: we're Jesus. It's like we're in clue. Here. We are 680 00:44:50,716 --> 00:44:52,636 Speaker 1: back in the place in our world where the known 681 00:44:52,756 --> 00:44:56,556 Speaker 1: things go. Shelves stocked with proof, and all around the 682 00:44:56,636 --> 00:45:01,916 Speaker 1: clutter of clues, a rock quarried in Vermont, reels and 683 00:45:02,036 --> 00:45:06,116 Speaker 1: reels of tape, an old punch card reader, all this 684 00:45:06,156 --> 00:45:09,196 Speaker 1: stuff from all the old episodes. It's laid out on 685 00:45:09,276 --> 00:45:12,316 Speaker 1: a big oak library table. It's like I'm in a 686 00:45:12,396 --> 00:45:15,276 Speaker 1: museum exhibit, but the hours are only midnight to two am, 687 00:45:15,316 --> 00:45:17,836 Speaker 1: and there's no marketing budget or gift shop, and no 688 00:45:17,836 --> 00:45:20,916 Speaker 1: one will ever come or believe I was here. I 689 00:45:20,996 --> 00:45:23,516 Speaker 1: wish they had like tote bags or something. No one 690 00:45:23,516 --> 00:45:26,396 Speaker 1: ever believes me about this place, and I think all 691 00:45:26,436 --> 00:45:28,676 Speaker 1: along I could have just gone out that other weird 692 00:45:28,756 --> 00:45:36,636 Speaker 1: green door. Zuckerberg isn't the killer this case. It's like 693 00:45:36,916 --> 00:45:43,636 Speaker 1: murder on the Orient Express. Everyone's the killer, all of us, Zuckerberg, Trump, Postmodernism. 694 00:45:44,476 --> 00:45:48,396 Speaker 1: I blame them for a lot for opportunism and cynicism 695 00:45:48,396 --> 00:45:51,916 Speaker 1: and nihilism. But with this crime, the killing of truth, 696 00:45:52,716 --> 00:45:57,236 Speaker 1: there's plenty of blame to go around. You need people 697 00:45:57,476 --> 00:46:02,436 Speaker 1: to know things, You need a collective commitment to empiricism. 698 00:46:02,596 --> 00:46:09,116 Speaker 1: We hold these truths. That's why people invented democracy. Any 699 00:46:09,116 --> 00:46:11,036 Speaker 1: One who gives up on the idea that people together 700 00:46:11,236 --> 00:46:15,716 Speaker 1: can share a world is killing truth. In an age 701 00:46:15,716 --> 00:46:20,116 Speaker 1: of global pandemics, it's obvious how killing truth kills people. 702 00:46:21,956 --> 00:46:24,956 Speaker 1: Democracy is a pain in the ass. It can be 703 00:46:24,996 --> 00:46:27,556 Speaker 1: hard to be certain about anything when everyone has a voice. 704 00:46:28,316 --> 00:46:30,476 Speaker 1: But the point of living with other people, the purpose 705 00:46:30,596 --> 00:46:34,836 Speaker 1: of democracy, like the purpose of a university, is that 706 00:46:34,836 --> 00:46:38,476 Speaker 1: no one has all the answers. You've got to inquire. 707 00:46:38,836 --> 00:46:41,356 Speaker 1: You can't believe in someone else's time capsule version of 708 00:46:41,396 --> 00:46:45,836 Speaker 1: the past or the future. You've got somehow to get 709 00:46:45,836 --> 00:46:49,356 Speaker 1: out into the world and talk to people, and especially 710 00:46:50,036 --> 00:46:57,476 Speaker 1: you've got to listen mystery, fact, number data. Truth isn't 711 00:46:57,476 --> 00:46:59,836 Speaker 1: any one of those things. It's in all of those 712 00:46:59,876 --> 00:47:02,876 Speaker 1: things together. And to really understand what the hell is 713 00:47:02,916 --> 00:47:05,676 Speaker 1: going on, you probably also need to read some poetry 714 00:47:06,236 --> 00:47:09,556 Speaker 1: or a book like Silent Spring. And I like to 715 00:47:09,556 --> 00:47:11,876 Speaker 1: think you've got to study some history. You've got to 716 00:47:11,916 --> 00:47:15,276 Speaker 1: love the places that make that knowledge, that keep it fragile. 717 00:47:15,316 --> 00:47:20,116 Speaker 1: Place is worth protecting, the last Archive and the next one. 718 00:47:24,676 --> 00:47:28,716 Speaker 1: I've got to lock this place up now until next season. 719 00:47:29,436 --> 00:47:37,476 Speaker 1: A season of doubt. Wait wait, laate. This is a 720 00:47:37,516 --> 00:47:40,956 Speaker 1: show about truth. We can't end without confessing. We did 721 00:47:40,956 --> 00:47:45,036 Speaker 1: not actually go to Mark Zuckerberg's dorm room. I'm a professor. 722 00:47:45,076 --> 00:47:47,316 Speaker 1: I'd never go to someone's dorm room. Even after the 723 00:47:47,356 --> 00:47:52,156 Speaker 1: dorms it emptied out. That was a simulation, forgive us. 724 00:47:53,476 --> 00:47:56,236 Speaker 1: The Last Archive is produced by Sophie Crane, mckibbon and 725 00:47:56,276 --> 00:47:59,196 Speaker 1: Ben Natt of Haafrey. Our editor is Julia Barton, and 726 00:47:59,276 --> 00:48:03,196 Speaker 1: our executive producer is Emil Abell. Jason Gambrel and Martine 727 00:48:03,236 --> 00:48:07,716 Speaker 1: Gonzalez are engineers. Fact checking by Amy Gaines. Original music 728 00:48:07,796 --> 00:48:11,556 Speaker 1: by Matthias Bossi and John Evans of Stellwagen Symfinett. Many 729 00:48:11,556 --> 00:48:13,636 Speaker 1: of her sound effects are from Harry Janette Junior and 730 00:48:13,676 --> 00:48:17,916 Speaker 1: The Star Janette Foundation. Our Foolproof players are Barlow, Adamson, 731 00:48:18,036 --> 00:48:21,996 Speaker 1: Daniel Burger, Jones, Jesse Henson, John Kuntz, Becca A. Lewis 732 00:48:22,196 --> 00:48:25,556 Speaker 1: and Maurice Emmanuel Parent. The Last Archive is brought to 733 00:48:25,556 --> 00:48:29,116 Speaker 1: you by Pushkin Industries. Special thanks to Ryan McKittrick in 734 00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:32,636 Speaker 1: the American Repertory Theater, to Guy Fedorco, and to Simon 735 00:48:32,716 --> 00:48:37,316 Speaker 1: Leake at Pushkin. Thanks to Heather Fane, Maya Knig, Carli Mgliori, 736 00:48:37,436 --> 00:48:41,796 Speaker 1: Emily Rostek, Eric Sandler, Maggie Taylor, and Jacob Weisberg. Our 737 00:48:41,836 --> 00:48:47,396 Speaker 1: research assistants are Michellegau, Olivia Oldham, Henrietta O'Reilly, Olive Riskin Kutz, 738 00:48:47,476 --> 00:48:51,716 Speaker 1: and Emily Spector. I'm Joe Lapoor. If you're interested in 739 00:48:51,756 --> 00:48:54,636 Speaker 1: reading the history of the Simomatics Corporation, you could check 740 00:48:54,636 --> 00:48:58,396 Speaker 1: out my book if then available September fifteenth. Wherever books 741 00:48:58,396 --> 00:49:01,876 Speaker 1: are sold, visit simomatics dot com to learn more.