WEBVTT - Title: Episode 10 - Time & Pressure 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.440 I don't want to hurt them. I would never hurt someone, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:13.720 a woman, a stranger, someone's dad. I try to help people. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.160 I do help people, don't I. I drive my brothers 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.720 to emergency rooms and smile at nurses and I say please, 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.600 I give hugs and I say I Love you to everyone. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.640 I am petite and proper and I have tact I 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.600 don't say bitch or hunt. I write poetry and thank 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.960 you cards. I remember birthdays and I take my mom 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.640 out to eat at Stone Woods. What type of person 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.879 could do this? I'm still asking myself in silence to 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.600 this day. I am still trying to figure out this person, 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:57.640 another side of me. She lives there still. Welcome to 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.560 The Doctor Gang, a production of I Heart Radio and 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:06.600 Katie Studios episode ten Time and Pressure. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.280 a crime producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lidecker. We've 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.240 been working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Docherty Gang 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.680 for months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.520 their story for the very first time, each from separate prisons. 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.280 Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.560 in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.440 Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:39.480 United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. Prison people are 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.480 so quick to judge other people when they commit crimes. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.039 They don't know the reason behind why you're committeing that crime, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.600 and I think that's a big problem in the justice system. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.440 If there's a certain reason why you are doing something, 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.640 then that needs to be taken into account and the 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.400 effects of a crime of why you actually did that. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.600 Three of the FBI's US wanted criminals that the Dougherty 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.000 siblings were not behind bars in Colorado after an eight 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.640 day crime spree beginning in Florida that ended with a 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.520 second police shootout. They were about to face the judge. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.160 On October thirty one, two thousand eleven, twenty year old 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.480 League Race pled not guilty to charges stemming from a 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:21.239 high speed chase in Waltzenburg, Colorado. Here'sly Grace's attorney, Patrick 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.400 mccarbyl It looked like we were going to go to 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.960 trial in the trial date was set to commence February. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.960 My sense was our judge, Judge A Pell, was really 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:42.080 pressuring council in the District Attorney's office to settle these cases. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.160 You know, my senili He didn't want the circuits that 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.560 would come with a trial with so much media attention. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.640 One trooper spoke out on the local news about Dylan's 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.560 capture and some of his facts that were wrong. The 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.480 third brother, who was still at the car trying to 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.919 get into his trunk, who who I focused on the first. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.040 We think he was trying to get to the possibly 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:04.519 even get to the A K forty seven that was 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.760 in the trunk. We gave him a lot of commands. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.080 He eventually, I think when he saw all of us, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.880 gave up and lay down on the ground. I covered 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.200 him while of Astonbury PD officer handcuffed him in searching, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.200 and then I went and joined the other troopers to 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.440 search for the Brotherhood advent. Here again is Lee Grace's attorney, 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.400 Patrick MCCARBYLL. There were a lot of press conferences and 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.160 a lot of discussion about the case, and of course 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.120 the first thing I did is Lead Grace's attorney was 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.480 asked for a gag order so that nobody could talk 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.200 about this case and that we could keep information about 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.920 the case out of the media, so that I could 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.280 preserve a fair jury pool in the event that we 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.560 would go to a jury trial, and of course that 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.920 didn't last very long. There many of the officers in 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:58.640 state patrolmen involved perceived awards, gave speeches. I asked our 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.720 judge to hold them and contend, and and it was denied. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.360 Producer Beth Greenwald spoke with Ryan. There was metal of 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.320 valor handed out to the Colorado Police and also the 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.400 citizens who chased after you. The Colorado police, some of 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.680 them were like some whole dirty gass cops. The statements 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.880 that you make in the placement that you're at where 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.240 you're like, oh, well, we've seen for sure, you know 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.880 the sister in the back and she was actuating the 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.320 trigger of the gun. It's like, really, you saw somebody 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.720 in a vehicle moving a hundred forty miles an hour 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:35.080 actuating a trigger mechanism from a hundred meters plus, and 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.359 then you were dumb enough with all your training that 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.400 you received to park your car. It's station yourself in 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.120 a crossfire situation because you're saying, well, we're worried for 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.919 our lives that they're gonna shoot us, so you're gonna 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.719 have to shoot back. Right, but you're gonna be dumb 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.280 enough to station yourself at a direct crossfire where if 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.640 you missed me a vehicle moving on a a hundred forty 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.320 and you're like a hundred meters or fifty away from 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:02.960 the road, you're gonna shoot your fucking fellow officer. Well, 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.840 Ryan was discussing what he saw as bad policing. Some officers, 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.520 like former Trooper Mark Bunetto, were recognized for their valor 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.839 here he is. It's a great honor, right, It's not 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:15.680 something that they just hand out, you know. There's very 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.479 few recipients of it, and during the the whole history 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.080 of the patrol, you know, so it was kind of 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:21.800 it's kind of a big deal, you know. I had 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.880 a big ceremony and everybody, you know, and the chief 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.360 hands them out, you know, and yeah, so it was 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.200 kind of cool. I got I got quite a few. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.719 I got that award and was also given the hundred 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.640 Club of Denver. I got an award from them. I 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.159 don't know why it was. I guess because I was 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.960 the lead car or in the pursuit. Authorities seemed relieved 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.479 to have finally apprehended the Doughertys, and there was no 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.360 hesitation to put them on public display, especially in front 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.239 of the media. Dylan's attorney, Kobe Becker, spoke with Beth. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.440 I believe it was in Colorado, um where at some 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.080 point they were escorted out of a building and they 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.080 were you know, I think this might have been it 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.080 was either Dylan and Lee Grace or Ryan and Lee Grace, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.800 but they're you know, shackled together, and they were kind 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.960 of let out a side door in front of the 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.320 media by a guy holding a machine gun. Yeah, we 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.680 had a huge fight about that that it's parading because 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.680 in WALLI Senburg, I think it's the same way now 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.039 that the courthouse is closer, and I don't know what 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.640 they're doing, but the courthouse was across the street from 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.440 the jail and there was no real way to get 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.960 inmates in secretly, like most jails have the tunnels that 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.200 lead to the courthouse or whatever, but they didn't have 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.799 a system like that, and so everyone was pissed. They 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.160 fired at police officers, and Willsonburg fired at police officers 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.960 from Fubblo fired at police officers, you know, FBI officers. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.360 So it was all just for show and Wall Senburg 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.720 because they're so small. I wanted to be on the map. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.080 Here's Dylan. I think we just kind of got used 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.680 to that. That was the whole dog and Tony Joe, 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.360 if you'll if you can call it that, uh, you know, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:09.360 they they, I will say the Sheriff's apartment in Colorado 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.120 was very professional. They were always polite. I think they 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.240 were you know, obviously did they said, sheriff didn't wake 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:16.920 up and be like, oh, maybe the back of you know, 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.720 crash here on my front doorstep tomorrow. Of course Saily, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.440 we did. And I think he didn't dealt with it 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.840 the best way that he could, and I think he 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:26.800 did a good job of that was, like I said, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.920 was always respectful to me. It was always you know, 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.200 Curtis obviously couldn't let me go. Here again is Lee 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.760 Grace's attorney, Patrick McCarville. This is perhaps one of the 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:42.400 smallest county jails in the state. There's three pods. Two 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:47.000 pods hold males, one holds females. The control center just 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.320 announces to an inmate you have an attorney visit, and 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:56.160 they remotely unlocked the doors and so Lee grades would 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 walk go through several secure doors before she gets to 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.760 what is called the judicial room to room about twelve 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.240 feet by twelve feet with a desk and two chairs. 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.760 And she's not shackled, nor is any of the inmates 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.240 when they meet with attorneys, and at the time she 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.000 was still recovering from the gunshot in her leg. Well, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.400 the attorneys figured out how to proceed with their cases. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.640 Dylan had another idea here again as Dylan's attorney Kobe Becker, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.080 and let me ask you this. I know when he 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.280 was being held in Colorado, I mean there wasn't an 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.320 incident where he and was planning on trying to break out. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:37.360 This was before he was arraigned, I believe, Yeah, yeah, 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.680 this is he's been captured. He's in jail. I think 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.200 that at this point Lee Grace was in the same 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.400 jailman in the female prison. Yeah, they were big held 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.360 in Bubble County for a bit when this happened. Were 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.719 you his representation? I was not. No. And when you 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.959 heard about that, what did you think? I think it's 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.920 the same thing, right, I mean they have been on 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.840 this running away, getaway kind of thing, and so it 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.719 was sort of hard for the course. And then after 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.800 meeting Dylan, it made sense. You know, how am I 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.959 going to get myself out of this situation, right, I 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.520 mean that's how he lived his whole life, like things 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.000 are bad? How am I going to get out of 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.360 this situation? A jail cell search comes up Big Guess. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.800 Twenty six year old Dylan Dougherty is caught with an 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.520 eight inch knife, mane up of metal, and a farewell 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.920 letter addressed to the FBI and Werfino County Jail. Former 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.079 neighbor Pastor Clanton recalls Dylan's farewell. Dylan had left a 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.600 note saying, you got me, but I'm out of here, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.199 you know, kind of with humor, like the the accommodations 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:41.800 are nice, but I gotta go. I gotta get my sister, 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.720 you know. And he tried to escape to get out 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.120 of the men's prison, to go to the women's prison 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.560 to get his sister out, like he's gonna break her out. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:59.040 So their actions we're, like most people think, unbelievable. According 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.040 to their rest affid David, it reads, I've enjoyed staying here, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.160 so don't take any of this personal. Dylan's plan was 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.440 to escape through a hatch door that has access to 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.920 the plumbing he had already tampered with the lock, tore 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.079 out the insulation and climbed up to the ceiling. Footprints 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.520 show he made it to the female cells and slipped 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.520 a letter to his sister Lee raised Dougherty, telling her 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.400 to get her belongings together. Dylan was going to go 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.280 through the ceiling of the control room, dropped down and 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.520 tie up the staff, taking their keys and walking out 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.480 to freedom. I didn't know my brother Dylan how smart 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.400 he is, and he's very widely. You know, Dylan is 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.920 the type of think her agency side of the box, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.960 and I think when you get somebody a certain step back, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.920 his only way to do is at rack is to 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.680 actually overcome it. So you know, if you give Dylan 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.320 even a little bit of space or a little bit 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.559 of time, he can think up a solution to anything. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.439 And that's just the way you Dylan is. He's a 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.200 very all thinker, and he's a very strong and physically 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.800 so if you put him in a box, he's gonna 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.640 find a way out of that box. If that means 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.319 destroying the box, if that means setting the box on fire, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.200 if that means climbing up the wall to like Spider Man, 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.280 he's gonna do it. When you're sitting there and all 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.480 you have is time and pressure, and when you're in 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.440 that situation, you're just you're in stink. So you look for, 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.240 you know, a way to survive in a better situation, 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:31.000 and obviously escaping from you know, being locked up is 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.000 one of those, you know methods. I mean, how did 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.320 I just sign like I said? I mean, I just 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:36.720 did the money. I want to be there. I don 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:37.880 want to do the time, you know, I didn't want 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.000 to do a fire light dying in prison. And the 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.800 actual mechanics of it were relatively simple that you're as 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.120 very small as you all know. You know, the staff 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.840 was kind of a little uh, I guess lack of daisical, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.439 you could say. But of course they changed a lot 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:57.120 of things after that incident happened. Did you make it 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:02.440 over to lead Race at any time? Yeah, yeah, I did. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.840 I was in the bed. I'm sure she remembers, as 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.920 she was setting on the table watching TV, and you know, 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.959 I was just likely race. You know, like how whispered 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.160 to the van and she was like sort of startled 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.160 because she's hearing my voice and she thought maybe she 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:15.719 was It was like, I don't know what, I don't 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.800 know what she thought it was, but you know, she 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.079 started to crying. I was like, you know, he stopped crying. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:21.480 You know what I mean? I said, you know, it 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.000 was just I said, it kind of like joggling. I 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:24.600 was like, I said, I said, are you ready to go? 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:25.920 You know? I said you want to? I said, do 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.640 you want to leave here? Pretty much a rhetorical question, 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.720 but you know, and she was of course, was like, 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.360 he was like, yeah, he actually was. He he had 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.599 And I'm not laughing because it's funny or I'm I'm 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.800 making light of the situation. If you give him enough time, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.160 he has enough energy, he's gonna find a way to escape. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:50.000 So I think that when he was making those plans, 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.120 it was in his right stand line and he was 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.080 going to escape. Now, whether or not he knew what 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.679 was going to happen after we actually escaped, I don't know, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.600 but I do you know that he hadn't been playned. 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.760 In effect, the media spread news about the jail break. 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.720 Jail officials claimed that they foiled an escape attempt masterminded 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.959 by Dylan Doherty. Avadan Mileski is a psychologist who specializes 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.400 in sibling relationships. He did not treat the Dougherties, but 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.520 followed their case closely. Here he is speaking with Beth. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.840 Were you aware that Dylan tried to break out of 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.520 jail with Lee Grace. He wrote a little letter to 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.160 Lead Grace with information of how they're going to get out. 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.199 That's just another piece of this puzzle. Were even once 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.960 they're separate, they're not giving up. We need to get 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.520 back together and we're going to help each other. They 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.800 had found his footpints through the wall because he had 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.800 worked in construction through where the pipes were, and they 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.320 had found his shoeprint um he had made it to 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.160 the women's prison. It's exceptional. Yeah, I think it speaks 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.920 to first of all Dylan's intellect and his abilities, but 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.000 ultimately he did it. Once again, I need to save 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.000 my siblings. That was driving him. It's just once again 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.920 that one constant thread throughout this entire story is that 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:12.400 the healing power of the civil relationship. We're going to 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.920 take a quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.120 A few weeks after Dylan's failed escape, the siblings all 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.560 entered plea agreements. Colorado prosecutors dropped the multiple counts of 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.880 attempted second degree murder. Here's the Grace's attorney, Patrick McCarville 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:42.680 in Colorado lead led to three felonies attempted assault in 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:47.640 the first degree on a peace officer and two counts 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:53.680 of felony menacing, which is essentially pointing a weapon at 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:59.520 a police officer. I believe in Lee Grace's plea agreements. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.720 At my insistence, she played it under a complicity theory, 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.240 meaning that she aided and embedded her brothers in the 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.280 commission of these crimes, but that she did not commit 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.680 these crimes herself, and that was a subject of much 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.600 litigation as we thought the cads who was the one 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.720 in the back seat of the subar ruined Presa that 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.960 was firing the gun at the pursuing law enforcement officers. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.760 Here again is Dylan's attorney, Kobe Becker. We went back 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:35.200 and forth about his plea agreement. I think we try 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.680 to get something less, but ultimately, at the end of 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.280 the day, he was like, you know, if this is 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.360 what it is, this is what it is, and we'll 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.120 just have to deal with it. And that's where he 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:51.560 really differed from his brother and sister. I remember, because 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.160 his brother was very scared, you know, he was obviously younger, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.120 but he was very scared and the stuff he was 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.320 facing was much force or just in general. Lee Grace 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:07.680 was quiet, She would not talk very much, but Dylan wasn't. 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.960 He was remorseful for the things that he did, but 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.960 he was never like this is the end of my life, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.000 if that makes sense. They were originally facing a total 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.280 of seventy three charges, including five counts of attempted murder 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.680 in the second degree, but they made a plea deal 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:28.280 with the court on April. Lea, Grace, Dylan, and Ryan 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.320 had the opportunity to address the court before sentencing. I 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:38.520 did not set out harm anyone. My only thought was 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.160 to get my brother safely to another country and help 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.400 him start a new life. Contrary a lot of people's relief, 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:50.560 I never intendantier, I never tried to I never wanted 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:56.840 to hurt anybody. It is true that I had had 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:03.200 a desperation, and I'm I'm sorry for it, the shortes 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.919 that I made. I wish, I wish I've done all 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:13.320 things differently. I don't know really what things differently I 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:21.800 have done, but I truly I'm sorry to to anybody 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:27.639 that was involved, the police officers, any innocent bystoners that 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.880 could have been hurt, and the actions that I did 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:41.639 take are not to my character. I wasn't thinking, I 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.720 wasn't thinking properly, wasn't thinking with the normal lindset that 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.880 I have, And there's nothing I can do to change 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:54.200 those I's just I just wish that the court would 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.640 look at me, get the person. That's That's pretty much 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.200 all I have to say, your honor, and I'm generally 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:08.000 workful for what I happened. I'm sorry for my rather 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.159 nowable the almost sixty when he gets out, and my sister. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.679 I am sorry for my life. And so Judge Claude 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.119 Apple had the final word. This is not Robin Hood. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:27.320 This is just three D really stupid singing danger a 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.359 lot of people's lives, and help you find some value 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.280 and the rest of your life. Ryan received a sentence 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.800 of eighteen years in prison after pleading guilty to five 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.960 counts of menacing. Lee Grace got twenty four years for 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.720 one count of attempted first degree assault and two counts 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.639 of felony menacing. Dylan received the maximum sentence of thirty 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.480 two years for first degree assault. Menacing refers to conduct 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.359 that places another in danger or fear of injury or death. 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.359 Here's Beth with Lee Grace. Were you guys punished for 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.600 what could have happened or were you punished for what 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.879 did happened? No, I definitely think we were punished for 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.440 what possibly could have happened. And I understand that there 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.680 were as police officers, there was lives in jeopardy that 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.160 I do understand, and for that, I'm very sorry. I'm 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.359 very You cannot apologize and just take any of that back. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.639 Once an act has been committed, you can't retract it. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.280 Dylan stayed positive and some of the praises of his attorney, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.400 Kobe Becker, who I have all the admiration in respect 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.240 for and I can't thank her enough. This call was 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.760 from the federal prison. She was a bulldog and a 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.000 shark and a lady all at the same time. And 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.480 I never saw her hands shaken with a paper in 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.600 her hand. That woman has got ice water in her 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.639 veins when it comes to that courtroom. But she was 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:49.280 pregnant while she was representing me. Dry mother, Barbara Bell, 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.119 says she was never asked to participate in her children's defense. 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.159 I was never deposed and I was never even attempted 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.760 to become never asked to become involved to my children's 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:05.640 defense in any way, shape or form, except for compiling 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:12.639 extensive psychiatric medical records for my daughter Lee Grace and 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.840 mailing them to one of her attorneys. I did all 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.800 that legwork myself, but it was never brought up at 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.320 trial nor well there was no trial, it was never 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.879 brought up during sentencing, and I was never included for 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:31.399 I was never deposed or never given an opportunity to 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.960 speak out on my children's behalf by any of their attorneys. 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.439 A lot of people don't realize you can still have 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.760 witnesses testify even if a plea deal is agreed upon 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.879 and sign it doesn't it's not all or nothing trial 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.240 and you get to tell your story or plea agreement 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.960 and you shut up. No, you are allowed to have 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.400 the defense attorneys can call people that could mitigate sentencing. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.320 Patrick McCarville remembers meeting Barbara Belle. I was able to 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.680 meet her mother at least once when she flew out 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.520 to Colorado, but my investigator and I did a pretty 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:13.640 deep dive into her family dynamic in anticipation of presenting 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.399 a mitigation package to the district attorney or to the 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:23.840 court at sentencing that her upbringing was insufficient and that, 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.880 you know, therefore maybe she should get some leniency, that 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.399 she never really had a chance in life, and that 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:35.760 fell on deaf ears to some extent. Yes, Attorney Patrick 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.320 McCarville talked to Beth about Lee Grace's state of mind 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:43.000 after the verdict. A lot of my conversations with Lee 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.960 when she was in the jail was talking about, you know, 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:52.119 messages she got from her brother's you know, family, dynamic stories, 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:57.040 and not too much interest in her criminal case. She 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.679 was kind of resigned that she was going to do 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.840 some time, whether it was in Colorado, Georgia, Florida, or elsewhere. 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.159 She quickly adapted well to the jail. Essentially became a 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.720 celebrity in the jail. And you know, I found it interesting. 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.639 She became with the deputies that would escort her to 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.240 court things of that nature. She was on a first 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.639 name basis with all of them and would ask about 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:27.679 their kids. Clearly, she was conversing with everybody, and she 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:33.080 was the atypical inmate in the jail that she wasn't depressed. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:39.200 She was almost bombastic, and that continued. It really never 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:44.360 evaporated her positive attitude. Of course, at sentencing she was 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.879 a little depressed and sad, But for that moment she 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:51.399 had a positive attitude and was going to make the 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.600 best of her situation, regardless of the consequences. Was it 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.280 that she was just resigned to it, or did she 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.040 not have an understanding, I mean, you have now a 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.560 federal charges for the bank robbery and then shooting at 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.840 officers and all the eight or she just was kind 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.120 of at piece because she couldn't control what was about 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:15.320 to happen. Perhaps she would ask questions like is it 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.280 possible for me to be sent into the same prison 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.520 as my brothers. Her primary concerns were the welfare of 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:29.840 Dylan and Ryan and not necessarily of herself. Here again 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:33.159 is Kobe Becker speaking with Beth. My question for you, 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:37.240 and again i'm model lawyer. The sentence it's hard, you know, 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:39.480 when you say, well, the sentences seemed extreme because they 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:41.760 shot at officers, they shot at the FBI, they rubbed 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:45.000 a bank, But it seems like, you know, and hearing 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:47.480 the sentencing and reading the files, you know what the 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.640 recommended was, and it almost seems like they were charged 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.879 for things that could have happened. Yeah, well, welcome to 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.920 criminal law. When you shoot into a crowd and nobody 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.879