1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt them. I would never hurt someone, 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: a woman, a stranger, someone's dad. I try to help people. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: I do help people, don't I. I drive my brothers 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: to emergency rooms and smile at nurses and I say please, 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: I give hugs and I say I Love you to everyone. 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: I am petite and proper and I have tact I 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: don't say bitch or hunt. I write poetry and thank 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: you cards. I remember birthdays and I take my mom 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: out to eat at Stone Woods. What type of person 10 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: could do this? I'm still asking myself in silence to 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: this day. I am still trying to figure out this person, 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: another side of me. She lives there still. Welcome to 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: The Doctor Gang, a production of I Heart Radio and 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: Katie Studios episode ten Time and Pressure. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 15 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: a crime producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lidecker. We've 16 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: been working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Docherty Gang 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: for months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell 18 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: their story for the very first time, each from separate prisons. 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: Lee Grace Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute Aliceville 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the U S Penitentiary 21 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is currently at the 22 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: United States Prison of Atlanta in Georgia. Prison people are 23 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: so quick to judge other people when they commit crimes. 24 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: They don't know the reason behind why you're committeing that crime, 25 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's a big problem in the justice system. 26 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: If there's a certain reason why you are doing something, 27 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: then that needs to be taken into account and the 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: effects of a crime of why you actually did that. 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: Three of the FBI's US wanted criminals that the Dougherty 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: siblings were not behind bars in Colorado after an eight 31 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: day crime spree beginning in Florida that ended with a 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: second police shootout. They were about to face the judge. 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: On October thirty one, two thousand eleven, twenty year old 34 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: League Race pled not guilty to charges stemming from a 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: high speed chase in Waltzenburg, Colorado. Here'sly Grace's attorney, Patrick 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: mccarbyl It looked like we were going to go to 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: trial in the trial date was set to commence February. 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: My sense was our judge, Judge A Pell, was really 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: pressuring council in the District Attorney's office to settle these cases. 40 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: You know, my senili He didn't want the circuits that 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: would come with a trial with so much media attention. 42 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: One trooper spoke out on the local news about Dylan's 43 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: capture and some of his facts that were wrong. The 44 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: third brother, who was still at the car trying to 45 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: get into his trunk, who who I focused on the first. 46 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: We think he was trying to get to the possibly 47 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: even get to the A K forty seven that was 48 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: in the trunk. We gave him a lot of commands. 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: He eventually, I think when he saw all of us, 50 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: gave up and lay down on the ground. I covered 51 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: him while of Astonbury PD officer handcuffed him in searching, 52 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: and then I went and joined the other troopers to 53 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: search for the Brotherhood advent. Here again is Lee Grace's attorney, 54 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: Patrick MCCARBYLL. There were a lot of press conferences and 55 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about the case, and of course 56 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: the first thing I did is Lead Grace's attorney was 57 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: asked for a gag order so that nobody could talk 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: about this case and that we could keep information about 59 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: the case out of the media, so that I could 60 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: preserve a fair jury pool in the event that we 61 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: would go to a jury trial, and of course that 62 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: didn't last very long. There many of the officers in 63 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: state patrolmen involved perceived awards, gave speeches. I asked our 64 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: judge to hold them and contend, and and it was denied. 65 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Producer Beth Greenwald spoke with Ryan. There was metal of 66 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: valor handed out to the Colorado Police and also the 67 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: citizens who chased after you. The Colorado police, some of 68 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: them were like some whole dirty gass cops. The statements 69 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: that you make in the placement that you're at where 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, we've seen for sure, you know 71 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: the sister in the back and she was actuating the 72 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: trigger of the gun. It's like, really, you saw somebody 73 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: in a vehicle moving a hundred forty miles an hour 74 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: actuating a trigger mechanism from a hundred meters plus, and 75 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: then you were dumb enough with all your training that 76 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: you received to park your car. It's station yourself in 77 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: a crossfire situation because you're saying, well, we're worried for 78 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: our lives that they're gonna shoot us, so you're gonna 79 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: have to shoot back. Right, but you're gonna be dumb 80 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: enough to station yourself at a direct crossfire where if 81 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: you missed me a vehicle moving on a a hundred forty 82 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: and you're like a hundred meters or fifty away from 83 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: the road, you're gonna shoot your fucking fellow officer. Well, 84 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: Ryan was discussing what he saw as bad policing. Some officers, 85 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: like former Trooper Mark Bunetto, were recognized for their valor 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: here he is. It's a great honor, right, It's not 87 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: something that they just hand out, you know. There's very 88 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: few recipients of it, and during the the whole history 89 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: of the patrol, you know, so it was kind of 90 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of a big deal, you know. I had 91 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: a big ceremony and everybody, you know, and the chief 92 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: hands them out, you know, and yeah, so it was 93 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: kind of cool. I got I got quite a few. 94 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: I got that award and was also given the hundred 95 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: Club of Denver. I got an award from them. I 96 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: don't know why it was. I guess because I was 97 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: the lead car or in the pursuit. Authorities seemed relieved 98 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: to have finally apprehended the Doughertys, and there was no 99 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: hesitation to put them on public display, especially in front 100 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: of the media. Dylan's attorney, Kobe Becker, spoke with Beth. 101 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: I believe it was in Colorado, um where at some 102 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: point they were escorted out of a building and they 103 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: were you know, I think this might have been it 104 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: was either Dylan and Lee Grace or Ryan and Lee Grace, 105 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: but they're you know, shackled together, and they were kind 106 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: of let out a side door in front of the 107 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: media by a guy holding a machine gun. Yeah, we 108 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: had a huge fight about that that it's parading because 109 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: in WALLI Senburg, I think it's the same way now 110 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: that the courthouse is closer, and I don't know what 111 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: they're doing, but the courthouse was across the street from 112 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: the jail and there was no real way to get 113 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: inmates in secretly, like most jails have the tunnels that 114 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: lead to the courthouse or whatever, but they didn't have 115 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: a system like that, and so everyone was pissed. They 116 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: fired at police officers, and Willsonburg fired at police officers 117 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: from Fubblo fired at police officers, you know, FBI officers. 118 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: So it was all just for show and Wall Senburg 119 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: because they're so small. I wanted to be on the map. 120 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: Here's Dylan. I think we just kind of got used 121 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: to that. That was the whole dog and Tony Joe, 122 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: if you'll if you can call it that, uh, you know, 123 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: they they, I will say the Sheriff's apartment in Colorado 124 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: was very professional. They were always polite. I think they 125 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: were you know, obviously did they said, sheriff didn't wake 126 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: up and be like, oh, maybe the back of you know, 127 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: crash here on my front doorstep tomorrow. Of course Saily, 128 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: we did. And I think he didn't dealt with it 129 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: the best way that he could, and I think he 130 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: did a good job of that was, like I said, 131 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: was always respectful to me. It was always you know, 132 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: Curtis obviously couldn't let me go. Here again is Lee 133 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: Grace's attorney, Patrick McCarville. This is perhaps one of the 134 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: smallest county jails in the state. There's three pods. Two 135 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: pods hold males, one holds females. The control center just 136 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: announces to an inmate you have an attorney visit, and 137 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: they remotely unlocked the doors and so Lee grades would 138 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: walk go through several secure doors before she gets to 139 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: what is called the judicial room to room about twelve 140 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: feet by twelve feet with a desk and two chairs. 141 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: And she's not shackled, nor is any of the inmates 142 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: when they meet with attorneys, and at the time she 143 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: was still recovering from the gunshot in her leg. Well, 144 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: the attorneys figured out how to proceed with their cases. 145 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: Dylan had another idea here again as Dylan's attorney Kobe Becker, 146 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: and let me ask you this. I know when he 147 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: was being held in Colorado, I mean there wasn't an 148 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: incident where he and was planning on trying to break out. 149 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: This was before he was arraigned, I believe, Yeah, yeah, 150 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: this is he's been captured. He's in jail. I think 151 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: that at this point Lee Grace was in the same 152 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: jailman in the female prison. Yeah, they were big held 153 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: in Bubble County for a bit when this happened. Were 154 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,719 Speaker 1: you his representation? I was not. No. And when you 155 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: heard about that, what did you think? I think it's 156 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: the same thing, right, I mean they have been on 157 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: this running away, getaway kind of thing, and so it 158 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: was sort of hard for the course. And then after 159 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: meeting Dylan, it made sense. You know, how am I 160 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: going to get myself out of this situation, right, I 161 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: mean that's how he lived his whole life, like things 162 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: are bad? How am I going to get out of 163 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: this situation? A jail cell search comes up Big Guess. 164 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: Twenty six year old Dylan Dougherty is caught with an 165 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: eight inch knife, mane up of metal, and a farewell 166 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: letter addressed to the FBI and Werfino County Jail. Former 167 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: neighbor Pastor Clanton recalls Dylan's farewell. Dylan had left a 168 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: note saying, you got me, but I'm out of here, 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: you know, kind of with humor, like the the accommodations 170 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: are nice, but I gotta go. I gotta get my sister, 171 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: you know. And he tried to escape to get out 172 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: of the men's prison, to go to the women's prison 173 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: to get his sister out, like he's gonna break her out. 174 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: So their actions we're, like most people think, unbelievable. According 175 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: to their rest affid David, it reads, I've enjoyed staying here, 176 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: so don't take any of this personal. Dylan's plan was 177 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: to escape through a hatch door that has access to 178 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: the plumbing he had already tampered with the lock, tore 179 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: out the insulation and climbed up to the ceiling. Footprints 180 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: show he made it to the female cells and slipped 181 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: a letter to his sister Lee raised Dougherty, telling her 182 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: to get her belongings together. Dylan was going to go 183 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: through the ceiling of the control room, dropped down and 184 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: tie up the staff, taking their keys and walking out 185 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: to freedom. I didn't know my brother Dylan how smart 186 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: he is, and he's very widely. You know, Dylan is 187 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: the type of think her agency side of the box, 188 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: and I think when you get somebody a certain step back, 189 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: his only way to do is at rack is to 190 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: actually overcome it. So you know, if you give Dylan 191 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: even a little bit of space or a little bit 192 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: of time, he can think up a solution to anything. 193 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: And that's just the way you Dylan is. He's a 194 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: very all thinker, and he's a very strong and physically 195 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: so if you put him in a box, he's gonna 196 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: find a way out of that box. If that means 197 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: destroying the box, if that means setting the box on fire, 198 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: if that means climbing up the wall to like Spider Man, 199 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: he's gonna do it. When you're sitting there and all 200 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: you have is time and pressure, and when you're in 201 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: that situation, you're just you're in stink. So you look for, 202 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, a way to survive in a better situation, 203 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: and obviously escaping from you know, being locked up is 204 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: one of those, you know methods. I mean, how did 205 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: I just sign like I said? I mean, I just 206 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: did the money. I want to be there. I don 207 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: want to do the time, you know, I didn't want 208 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: to do a fire light dying in prison. And the 209 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: actual mechanics of it were relatively simple that you're as 210 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: very small as you all know. You know, the staff 211 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: was kind of a little uh, I guess lack of daisical, 212 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: you could say. But of course they changed a lot 213 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: of things after that incident happened. Did you make it 214 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: over to lead Race at any time? Yeah, yeah, I did. 215 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: I was in the bed. I'm sure she remembers, as 216 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: she was setting on the table watching TV, and you know, 217 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: I was just likely race. You know, like how whispered 218 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: to the van and she was like sort of startled 219 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: because she's hearing my voice and she thought maybe she 220 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: was It was like, I don't know what, I don't 221 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: know what she thought it was, but you know, she 222 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: started to crying. I was like, you know, he stopped crying. 223 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I said, you know, it 224 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: was just I said, it kind of like joggling. I 225 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: was like, I said, I said, are you ready to go? 226 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: You know? I said you want to? I said, do 227 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: you want to leave here? Pretty much a rhetorical question, 228 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: but you know, and she was of course, was like, 229 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, he actually was. He he had 230 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 1: And I'm not laughing because it's funny or I'm I'm 231 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: making light of the situation. If you give him enough time, 232 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: he has enough energy, he's gonna find a way to escape. 233 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: So I think that when he was making those plans, 234 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: it was in his right stand line and he was 235 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: going to escape. Now, whether or not he knew what 236 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: was going to happen after we actually escaped, I don't know, 237 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: but I do you know that he hadn't been playned. 238 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: In effect, the media spread news about the jail break. 239 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: Jail officials claimed that they foiled an escape attempt masterminded 240 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: by Dylan Doherty. Avadan Mileski is a psychologist who specializes 241 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: in sibling relationships. He did not treat the Dougherties, but 242 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: followed their case closely. Here he is speaking with Beth. 243 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: Were you aware that Dylan tried to break out of 244 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: jail with Lee Grace. He wrote a little letter to 245 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: Lead Grace with information of how they're going to get out. 246 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: That's just another piece of this puzzle. Were even once 247 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: they're separate, they're not giving up. We need to get 248 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: back together and we're going to help each other. They 249 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: had found his footpints through the wall because he had 250 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: worked in construction through where the pipes were, and they 251 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: had found his shoeprint um he had made it to 252 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: the women's prison. It's exceptional. Yeah, I think it speaks 253 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: to first of all Dylan's intellect and his abilities, but 254 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: ultimately he did it. Once again, I need to save 255 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: my siblings. That was driving him. It's just once again 256 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: that one constant thread throughout this entire story is that 257 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: the healing power of the civil relationship. We're going to 258 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: take a quick break here, we'll be back in a moment. 259 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: A few weeks after Dylan's failed escape, the siblings all 260 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: entered plea agreements. Colorado prosecutors dropped the multiple counts of 261 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: attempted second degree murder. Here's the Grace's attorney, Patrick McCarville 262 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: in Colorado lead led to three felonies attempted assault in 263 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: the first degree on a peace officer and two counts 264 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: of felony menacing, which is essentially pointing a weapon at 265 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: a police officer. I believe in Lee Grace's plea agreements. 266 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: At my insistence, she played it under a complicity theory, 267 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: meaning that she aided and embedded her brothers in the 268 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: commission of these crimes, but that she did not commit 269 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: these crimes herself, and that was a subject of much 270 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: litigation as we thought the cads who was the one 271 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: in the back seat of the subar ruined Presa that 272 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: was firing the gun at the pursuing law enforcement officers. 273 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: Here again is Dylan's attorney, Kobe Becker. We went back 274 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: and forth about his plea agreement. I think we try 275 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: to get something less, but ultimately, at the end of 276 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: the day, he was like, you know, if this is 277 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: what it is, this is what it is, and we'll 278 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: just have to deal with it. And that's where he 279 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: really differed from his brother and sister. I remember, because 280 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: his brother was very scared, you know, he was obviously younger, 281 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: but he was very scared and the stuff he was 282 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: facing was much force or just in general. Lee Grace 283 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: was quiet, She would not talk very much, but Dylan wasn't. 284 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: He was remorseful for the things that he did, but 285 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: he was never like this is the end of my life, 286 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. They were originally facing a total 287 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: of seventy three charges, including five counts of attempted murder 288 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: in the second degree, but they made a plea deal 289 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: with the court on April. Lea, Grace, Dylan, and Ryan 290 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to address the court before sentencing. I 291 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: did not set out harm anyone. My only thought was 292 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: to get my brother safely to another country and help 293 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: him start a new life. Contrary a lot of people's relief, 294 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: I never intendantier, I never tried to I never wanted 295 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: to hurt anybody. It is true that I had had 296 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: a desperation, and I'm I'm sorry for it, the shortes 297 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: that I made. I wish, I wish I've done all 298 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: things differently. I don't know really what things differently I 299 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: have done, but I truly I'm sorry to to anybody 300 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: that was involved, the police officers, any innocent bystoners that 301 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: could have been hurt, and the actions that I did 302 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: take are not to my character. I wasn't thinking, I 303 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking properly, wasn't thinking with the normal lindset that 304 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: I have, And there's nothing I can do to change 305 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: those I's just I just wish that the court would 306 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 1: look at me, get the person. That's That's pretty much 307 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: all I have to say, your honor, and I'm generally 308 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: workful for what I happened. I'm sorry for my rather 309 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: nowable the almost sixty when he gets out, and my sister. 310 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: I am sorry for my life. And so Judge Claude 311 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: Apple had the final word. This is not Robin Hood. 312 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: This is just three D really stupid singing danger a 313 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: lot of people's lives, and help you find some value 314 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: and the rest of your life. Ryan received a sentence 315 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: of eighteen years in prison after pleading guilty to five 316 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: counts of menacing. Lee Grace got twenty four years for 317 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: one count of attempted first degree assault and two counts 318 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: of felony menacing. Dylan received the maximum sentence of thirty 319 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: two years for first degree assault. Menacing refers to conduct 320 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: that places another in danger or fear of injury or death. 321 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: Here's Beth with Lee Grace. Were you guys punished for 322 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: what could have happened or were you punished for what 323 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: did happened? No, I definitely think we were punished for 324 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: what possibly could have happened. And I understand that there 325 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: were as police officers, there was lives in jeopardy that 326 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: I do understand, and for that, I'm very sorry. I'm 327 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: very You cannot apologize and just take any of that back. 328 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: Once an act has been committed, you can't retract it. 329 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: Dylan stayed positive and some of the praises of his attorney, 330 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: Kobe Becker, who I have all the admiration in respect 331 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: for and I can't thank her enough. This call was 332 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: from the federal prison. She was a bulldog and a 333 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: shark and a lady all at the same time. And 334 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: I never saw her hands shaken with a paper in 335 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: her hand. That woman has got ice water in her 336 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: veins when it comes to that courtroom. But she was 337 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: pregnant while she was representing me. Dry mother, Barbara Bell, 338 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: says she was never asked to participate in her children's defense. 339 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: I was never deposed and I was never even attempted 340 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: to become never asked to become involved to my children's 341 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: defense in any way, shape or form, except for compiling 342 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: extensive psychiatric medical records for my daughter Lee Grace and 343 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: mailing them to one of her attorneys. I did all 344 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: that legwork myself, but it was never brought up at 345 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: trial nor well there was no trial, it was never 346 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: brought up during sentencing, and I was never included for 347 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: I was never deposed or never given an opportunity to 348 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: speak out on my children's behalf by any of their attorneys. 349 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't realize you can still have 350 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: witnesses testify even if a plea deal is agreed upon 351 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: and sign it doesn't it's not all or nothing trial 352 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: and you get to tell your story or plea agreement 353 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: and you shut up. No, you are allowed to have 354 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: the defense attorneys can call people that could mitigate sentencing. 355 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: Patrick McCarville remembers meeting Barbara Belle. I was able to 356 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: meet her mother at least once when she flew out 357 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: to Colorado, but my investigator and I did a pretty 358 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: deep dive into her family dynamic in anticipation of presenting 359 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: a mitigation package to the district attorney or to the 360 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: court at sentencing that her upbringing was insufficient and that, 361 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: you know, therefore maybe she should get some leniency, that 362 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: she never really had a chance in life, and that 363 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: fell on deaf ears to some extent. Yes, Attorney Patrick 364 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: McCarville talked to Beth about Lee Grace's state of mind 365 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: after the verdict. A lot of my conversations with Lee 366 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: when she was in the jail was talking about, you know, 367 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: messages she got from her brother's you know, family, dynamic stories, 368 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: and not too much interest in her criminal case. She 369 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: was kind of resigned that she was going to do 370 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: some time, whether it was in Colorado, Georgia, Florida, or elsewhere. 371 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: She quickly adapted well to the jail. Essentially became a 372 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: celebrity in the jail. And you know, I found it interesting. 373 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: She became with the deputies that would escort her to 374 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: court things of that nature. She was on a first 375 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: name basis with all of them and would ask about 376 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: their kids. Clearly, she was conversing with everybody, and she 377 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: was the atypical inmate in the jail that she wasn't depressed. 378 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: She was almost bombastic, and that continued. It really never 379 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: evaporated her positive attitude. Of course, at sentencing she was 380 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: a little depressed and sad, But for that moment she 381 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: had a positive attitude and was going to make the 382 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: best of her situation, regardless of the consequences. Was it 383 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: that she was just resigned to it, or did she 384 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: not have an understanding, I mean, you have now a 385 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: federal charges for the bank robbery and then shooting at 386 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: officers and all the eight or she just was kind 387 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: of at piece because she couldn't control what was about 388 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: to happen. Perhaps she would ask questions like is it 389 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: possible for me to be sent into the same prison 390 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: as my brothers. Her primary concerns were the welfare of 391 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: Dylan and Ryan and not necessarily of herself. Here again 392 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: is Kobe Becker speaking with Beth. My question for you, 393 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: and again i'm model lawyer. The sentence it's hard, you know, 394 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: when you say, well, the sentences seemed extreme because they 395 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: shot at officers, they shot at the FBI, they rubbed 396 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: a bank, But it seems like, you know, and hearing 397 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: the sentencing and reading the files, you know what the 398 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: recommended was, and it almost seems like they were charged 399 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: for things that could have happened. Yeah, well, welcome to 400 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: criminal law. When you shoot into a crowd and nobody 401 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: has hurt, you are subjected to forty eight years and 402 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: the state prison because of what could have happened. It's ridiculous. 403 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: I mean, they're there. I could go on for days 404 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: about the need for criminal justice reform. I don't even 405 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: like to use the word justice system because it's not 406 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: a just system. It is not a just system for 407 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: indigent clients. It's not a just system for people that 408 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: really don't cause any harm. To say, hey, we're going 409 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: to punish these kids and put them in prison for 410 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: thirty two years because you know, we're going to deter 411 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: other people from shooting at law enforcement. Well, let's see 412 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: how well that happened. How well did that work? Right, 413 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: because clearly no one has shot at a cop since 414 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: these guys, you know, we're sentenced ten years ago to 415 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: to shooting at cops. Let's stop here for another quick break. 416 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. The Docerts faced more 417 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: court dates in Georgia and Florida, but they had one 418 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: bright moment. Ryan picks up the story. The main guy 419 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: at the jail gave us like an hour and a 420 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: half in a visitation room to see each other after 421 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: we got sentence. So that was cool because the county 422 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: jail people knew us well enough and liked us well enough, 423 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: and we had made friends with him well enough to 424 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: be able to get that last hour visit together. Then 425 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: we roll on out to the Feds. The Feds come 426 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: get us. They fly us in a little tiny jet, 427 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: just me, my brother and sister in three US marshalls 428 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: where were chained to like a d ring to the 429 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: floor of the plane and you know, you're shackled up 430 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: like six ways from Sunday and cuffed up, and they 431 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: flew us from there to Georgia. Georgia took about a 432 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: year to work its way through the process. The Dougherty 433 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: publicity parade played out once again when they landed in Georgia. 434 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: Here's Beth with Ryan followed by the Grace. I was 435 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: able to find like some footage and I think it's 436 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: you and Lee Grace being walked outside of a courtroom 437 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: in shackles and with a guy with a like M 438 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: sixteen walking out in front of you and they kind 439 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: of paraded you in front of the media. Yeah, they 440 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: did that before we ever got to child, So I 441 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: don't know how we're ever supposed to get the attend 442 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: its fair or impartial ever anywhere. Really, I think it 443 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: was just for show. And I think that when they 444 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: feel embarrassed, they have to recoup, you know, their losses. 445 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: They have to make a fan, they have to make 446 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: a statement of you know, we lost one, we lost 447 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,239 Speaker 1: the battle, but we're gonna win the war. And I 448 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: think that was what the statement they were trying to 449 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: make is, these these three siblings are not going to 450 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: embarrass us anymore. You know, they might have done it once, 451 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: but there's no way in hell they're going to do 452 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: it again. So I think a lot of that was 453 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: her show, and I think you look at it from 454 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: a legal perspective, they had to put their front down 455 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: here again. Psychologists and sibling specialist Avadan Moleski. There's this 456 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: video clip that one news outlet caught them when they 457 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: were being led out of the Georgia court after their 458 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: court appearance in Georgia. Right, they have to be up 459 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: here and court in Colorado and in Georgia and Florida. 460 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: So there's a small, little thirty second snapshot of both 461 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: Ryan and Lee Grace walking out of the Georgia courtroom 462 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: and they were being led into the US Marshall car 463 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: and you see Lee Grace turnaround towards Ryan and give 464 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: them a little kiss on the cheek, like this older 465 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: sister and they're in this horrible situation, and this little 466 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: outreach of love between an older sister and a younger 467 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: brother that just really encapsulated for me this remarkable relationship. 468 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: The docrit Is copped to plea deal again, this time 469 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: in Georgia, and in December they were sentenced by Judge 470 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: Hugh Lawson and Valdosta to thirty five years and eight 471 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: months aged for robbing the local bank. Georgia took about 472 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: a year to work its way through the process and 473 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: we ended up lean out there being as they said, 474 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: seventeen to nineteen years, and then the judge and court 475 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: just gives us forty years. And I said in court, 476 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: I said, man, this fucking kangaroo court. I said, how 477 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: do you sleep with yourself at night with this sentence 478 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: that you just shot like way over the move And 479 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: then judge is like, oh, if you feel that way, 480 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: appeal and you know, end of that. The Doughertys actually 481 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: received sentences that went above and beyond the federal guideline range. 482 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: My guideline range called for seventeen to nineteen years. They said, hey, 483 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: sign this lee deal for seventeen to nineteen years. I 484 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: signed for that, and then the judges like, I don't 485 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: like this hold these thirty five years. But the fact 486 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: that they're swinging against you is, hey, bro, you know 487 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: that this gun itself carries a life sentence, right, so 488 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: if you don't pleaded this, it takes this open flee 489 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: of whatever the funk we decided to give you. Is 490 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: your blessing is you do, You're gonna get hit with 491 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 1: a fucking life sentence. That's the stick that they always 492 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: threaten you with. Dylan was hit the hardest with both sentences. 493 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: My sentence I was always supposed to be forty seven months. 494 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: You know, I was with the bank robbery side of 495 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: the side of the criminal you know, Enterprise carried was 496 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: I think it was forty two forty seven months, and 497 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: I think gave me four. So that kind of says 498 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: it all right there. That was my guidelines, and that's 499 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: what my federal attorney told me. In Georgia. Oh, they're 500 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: gonna go with the guidelines. You know, that's what they're 501 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: there for, and blah blah bla, and uh, you know, 502 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: I can only laugh at that now, m But they 503 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: don't have to go with the guidelines, folks. They're just 504 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: guy's lines. They can do whatever they want at the 505 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: end of the day. Mother Barbara Belle shares her perspective 506 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: on how the trials and sentencing played out. I don't 507 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: dare to hope, and realistically, I think my children so 508 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: much publicity or surrounded their initial crime spree that everybody 509 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: wanted to get their name in there, and everybody wanted 510 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: to have a piece of the pie, piece of the 511 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: famous pie. That they're over the top sentences when they 512 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: signed plea agreements that they agreed they pleaded guilty of 513 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: crimes with the agreement of twenty years in prison, and 514 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: to have that overridden by a judge. Everybody wanted in 515 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: on the publicity and part of the limelight. And now 516 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: they're forgotten on one of the few that actually keeps 517 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: in touch with them regularly. There are a few other people, 518 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: but this is yesterday's news to most people. But me, 519 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: I wake up every morning with this as fresh as 520 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: if it happened yesterday. I'm in a three of bad mood. Now. 521 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: I just kind of legal letter from my new attorneys 522 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: that I have in Florida. In the letter said, well, 523 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: I tend to that apparently much times I could start until, 524 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: like in this case resolved, and I was un any 525 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: impression that they would it would would start from the 526 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: moment that I was seeking car. Sorry, just come up 527 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: on ten years now, so from minus and easy that 528 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm not, I can create it for the time that 529 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: I've served already. I don't know. It is crazy. Prison 530 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: is basically a warehouse. You know, you have your room, 531 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: you have your drawer, you have your locker. It's just 532 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: a big storage facility where you just fit in the 533 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: same unit pretty much all day long, all night long, 534 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: and you just do your time day for day. And 535 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: they do have um a prescription still line. But are 536 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: any of these medications very good? No. They are drugs 537 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: that make you sleepy, drugs that make you gain weight, 538 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: drugs that make you look like ship. They are different 539 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: people now. They regret what they did and they need 540 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: to be out here making a valuable contribution to society 541 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: instead of costing the taxpayers a hundred dollars a day 542 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: each to keep them in Federal House. More on that 543 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want 544 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or 545 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: find their addresses to write them in prison, go to 546 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. If you're enjoying this podcast, 547 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: please listen and subscribe to Crazy and Love, Katie Studio's 548 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: latest true and podcast. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced 549 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong, along with 550 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound 551 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: design is by Jeff Ta. Additional producing by Chris Graves 552 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: and Jeff Shane. The Doctor Gang is a production of 553 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: I Heeart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from 554 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 555 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.