Speaker 1: It wasn't until I started to share some of my
Speaker 1: own struggles that I recognized there were so many people,
Speaker 1: so many women that were like me too, girl, me too? Girl, Oh, girl,
Speaker 1: me too? And I was like, are you serious? Why
Speaker 1: is no one talking about this? Here? I am on
Speaker 1: this boat feeling like I'm alone and isolated, and there's
Speaker 1: so much shame, feeling like you're the only one going
Speaker 1: through this. And then as soon as you speak up,
Speaker 1: there's so many people on the boat with you. We
Speaker 1: just all silent and struggling, not even together. Really, what's up, everybody?
Speaker 1: I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Every week I
Speaker 1: have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational people pushing for
Speaker 1: change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, to the
Speaker 1: current issues facing the black community. In this episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to be discussing marriage and divorce. If you know
Speaker 1: anything about me, that you know that I had traveled
Speaker 1: this journey a couple of times, so I do have
Speaker 1: a little bit of experience in both areas to say
Speaker 1: the least. Joining me today are Melissa and Kevin Fredericks
Speaker 1: from the own docuseries Black Love. Kevin and Melissa have
Speaker 1: been happily married for sixteen years and have a podcast
Speaker 1: called The Love Our Joining them is my friend and
Speaker 1: sponsors Sibillymani, who is currently single, and then, of course,
Speaker 1: the most important person in the room, my husband, Rodney,
Speaker 1: is joining us today for the very first time. So
Speaker 1: welcome everybody to positively GAM Thanks Gams, so excited. Melissa
Speaker 1: and Kevin. For some of my listeners who may not
Speaker 1: be familiar with the show Black Love on Own, tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about it. Oh yeah, Black Love
Speaker 1: is a showan owned and it kind of follows of
Speaker 1: a variety of black couples of various sectual preferences, ages,
Speaker 1: lengths of marriage, divorce not divorce, and they kind of
Speaker 1: just talk about their love story. I'm listen. I did
Speaker 1: season three, I believe yeah, season three, that is correct.
Speaker 1: We were married fifteen years at the time, and I
Speaker 1: believe um when that aired, we're married sixteen years now.
Speaker 1: So it's a great experience to be included, great to
Speaker 1: watch all the stories and you know, just be a
Speaker 1: part of something beautiful. Yeah, I thought it was amazing.
Speaker 1: What what made you decide that you were willing to
Speaker 1: be on a show like that though? Because it is
Speaker 1: you are talking about your personal experiences. I would say,
Speaker 1: for me, I strongly believe that there's healing and help
Speaker 1: and transparency. It's just something that I kind of lived
Speaker 1: my life on. And the reason why is because a
Speaker 1: lot of our story and some of the things we've
Speaker 1: been shared on black level, I felt like I was alone. Listen,
Speaker 1: I was out here struggling in marriage, struggling and motherhood,
Speaker 1: struggling in womanhood. To be honest, like make it brought
Speaker 1: to Melissa's struggling period, and I was a mother and
Speaker 1: I was married, And it wasn't until I started to
Speaker 1: share some of my own struggles that I recognized there
Speaker 1: were so many people, so many women that were like
Speaker 1: me too, girl, me too? Girl, Oh girl, me too?
Speaker 1: And I was like, are you serious? Why is no
Speaker 1: one talking about this? Here? I am on this boat
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm alone and isolated, and there's so much shame,
Speaker 1: feeling like you're the only one going through this. And
Speaker 1: then as soon as you speak up, there's so many
Speaker 1: people on the boat with you. We just all silent
Speaker 1: and struggling, not even together really, And so I just
Speaker 1: felt like doing the show sharing, you know, the beauty
Speaker 1: of black love the beauty of our story, but also,
Speaker 1: you know, sharing some things that aren't so beautiful, but
Speaker 1: hoping that you know, we could shed light on other
Speaker 1: people's lives and say, hey, we went through that too
Speaker 1: and we were able to get on the other side.
Speaker 1: What about now, simple? Are you familiar with the show?
Speaker 1: I am not. This is my first introduction to it.
Speaker 1: I find it to be very interesting, very therapeutic. The
Speaker 1: clips that I have had an opportunity to watch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what about you, Kevin? Because I know Rodney you probably
Speaker 1: have not because I've asked you to watch it with me,
Speaker 1: and now we've watched it together a couple of times.
Speaker 1: Did you okay? All right? I don't. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't remember that. No credit over here? How did you
Speaker 1: feel about being on the show, Kevin? Because it just,
Speaker 1: to be honest, it just seems like more of a
Speaker 1: woman thing. So it's always good for me when I
Speaker 1: see black men engaged in this kind of conversation too,
Speaker 1: because I think it's really really important. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you know. Melissa and I have a podcast of our
Speaker 1: podcast where we talk about life, love, marriage, and pursuit
Speaker 1: of happiness, and we you know, we often are interested
Speaker 1: in these types of stories outside of ours. Even before
Speaker 1: we were on the show, we watched the previous seasons.
Speaker 1: We just thought it was a great show. And you know,
Speaker 1: like many other black people, we like to see positive
Speaker 1: reflections of love. And I think one thing the show does,
Speaker 1: even you know, really well is some couples have traumatic stories,
Speaker 1: some are very positive, some have you know, went through difficulties.
Speaker 1: Some even divorced after the show, and even on their
Speaker 1: social media they've even been um positive, even in that
Speaker 1: transition from married to co parenting or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: just think it's a I can't think of another show
Speaker 1: that had so much representation of love that wasn't like
Speaker 1: a TV sitcom, and even that's only usually one family.
Speaker 1: So Melissa and I we watched pretty much every episode
Speaker 1: together of the previous seasons. We love it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: really love it too. How did you guys meet? Depending
Speaker 1: on who you'll ask, you'll get a very different story.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the truth, um, Melissa, Melissa. Melissa Kevin
Speaker 1: is a comedian too, so we gotta take that because
Speaker 1: he's been a lot of y'all list of lies. That's
Speaker 1: all she does when it's about this story. We met
Speaker 1: on the first day of eleventh grade and Miss Chapman's
Speaker 1: U S History class. Melissa was sitting there. It was
Speaker 1: a second to last role. She was in the backseat
Speaker 1: because I know it's the truth. I know the truth.
Speaker 1: You couldn't have a lot of this clear. I came
Speaker 1: up and I sat probably about four desks in front
Speaker 1: of her. I went to her role. When I saw
Speaker 1: her beauty, I was attracted to it. I sat down.
Speaker 1: I was eyeing her, and another dude handed me a
Speaker 1: note and was like, Yo, could you hand this to
Speaker 1: that girl back there? And it was Melissa, And I
Speaker 1: was like, dang, he beat me to the punch, handed
Speaker 1: her a note. She opened it and looked at it,
Speaker 1: closed it back and never looked at him. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, so you're telling me there's a chance.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I fell in love with her
Speaker 1: right then. Took me about six seven months to actually
Speaker 1: convince her to date me. I had all her home
Speaker 1: girls and all her classes petitioning for me, girls on
Speaker 1: the track team in every period. I had a whole
Speaker 1: school of black girls campaigning for me, and eventually this
Speaker 1: is the last part of the story, but it's also
Speaker 1: the truth. Her cousin was the one that put me
Speaker 1: over the edge because she still was not trying to
Speaker 1: date me. So he's like, come on, couse cousin named Tony,
Speaker 1: come on, cuse, come on man, my boy, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: just dating me. She grabbed my hand. She's like, okay, Tony,
Speaker 1: I will date him. Are you happy now? And through
Speaker 1: my hand And that was May thousand and we've been
Speaker 1: together ever since I was twenty years ago. That right
Speaker 1: there is just really really amazing to me because if
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, you guys have been together and have
Speaker 1: never like dated or experienced any nothing. No breakups, no breakups,
Speaker 1: no separations, no time off, no PTO, no vacation, no
Speaker 1: mental health days, no hall passed straight married for well,
Speaker 1: dating into engagement into married. Since that day, she tried
Speaker 1: to break over me in college. One time I was
Speaker 1: walking up to her dorm and she was talking bad
Speaker 1: about me to her roommate and the door was open,
Speaker 1: so I don't know if she was doing it on purpose,
Speaker 1: but I heard her and she was like, I was like,
Speaker 1: are you okay? She was like, well, I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 1: I'm sick of this and sick of that, you hanging
Speaker 1: out your homeboy, and I feel like you need a break.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, so what I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: is go back to my side of campus and I'll
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow. And that was it. I went back
Speaker 1: to my room and the next day I acted like
Speaker 1: she never said that. She never mentioned it again, and
Speaker 1: we just kept on chucking. You know, Rodney, what do
Speaker 1: you say about that? Because I mean, like, Okay, I've
Speaker 1: been married four times. Rodney is my fourth husband, but
Speaker 1: there have been numerous relationships in between over the years.
Speaker 1: So the fact that you guys have been married, never
Speaker 1: day to other people, never experienced other people in any way,
Speaker 1: is just like, I don't even know what to say
Speaker 1: to that. It's amazing. That's not the typical story, but
Speaker 1: it's an amazing story. I was gonna say. We are
Speaker 1: well aware more and more that this is not the norm,
Speaker 1: and we don't expect it to be the norm. It
Speaker 1: is very on the outskirts of normality. It exists mostly
Speaker 1: in Hollywood. People you know, fall in love in high
Speaker 1: school and stay together. So we are well aware, and
Speaker 1: you know, when we do our podcast, we lead with
Speaker 1: that knowing that our situation is not the norm, you know.
Speaker 1: And when you say Hollywood, you mean Hollywood like on
Speaker 1: the movie screen. You know what I mean, like Hollywood
Speaker 1: for real? No, I mean like literally movies, not actual life.
Speaker 1: I don't think most people you know have a girlfriend
Speaker 1: that they meet in in eleventh grade and they stay
Speaker 1: with him for twenty years without breaking up. Ever, what
Speaker 1: is one thing in marriage that singles need to know
Speaker 1: before they say I do? What would you say to that?
Speaker 1: CIVIL would say singles need to recognize that life is
Speaker 1: full of valleys, and without those valleys, there can be
Speaker 1: no hills, no mole hills, and no mountains, and so
Speaker 1: perseverance and communication are key. And that's my take from
Speaker 1: a look back. I would just say that make sure
Speaker 1: you're ready for the commitment because it's work, and it's
Speaker 1: not it's not the Hollywood version. It's it's real. It's
Speaker 1: real work, and you're gonna have to learn some things
Speaker 1: about yourself that you didn't know existed, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to face some truths about yourself. And if you're
Speaker 1: ready to do that work, then I say go for it.
Speaker 1: But if you're not, then maybe just think about being
Speaker 1: in a relationship a little longer. Well, we were just
Speaker 1: in the kitchen. We were just in the kitchen talking
Speaker 1: to Will. That's our favorite spot and things that he said.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, I've met him before. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: put that out there. I have met Will Smith. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Just I was gonna work it into the conversation only
Speaker 1: if you brought it up, and you did so that's hilarious, okay. Well,
Speaker 1: and what he said was marriage is a spiritual discipline
Speaker 1: to force us to heal our own wounds and learn
Speaker 1: how to love, right, he said, because most people don't
Speaker 1: actually just don't know anything about what love really is
Speaker 1: and how to love. And when he said that, I
Speaker 1: had to really think about it, because I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you really don't. So when you think about the did
Speaker 1: you all read the five love languages symbol? You read it, right, Rodney,
Speaker 1: you read it. So what would you say? Are is
Speaker 1: your love language? I'm gonna start with you, Rodney, What
Speaker 1: is you or love language? Quality time? Quality time? For me,
Speaker 1: I think that words of fairly empty without demonstration, right,
Speaker 1: And that demonstration for me comes through time, spending time,
Speaker 1: sharing things together, doing things together. So yeah, for me,
Speaker 1: from that list, it would definitely be quality time. For me,
Speaker 1: it's physical touch. I'm all about the physical like that.
Speaker 1: That is really really important to me. What about you,
Speaker 1: civil I would say it's both of what you and
Speaker 1: Rodney have. For me, it's quality time because you can
Speaker 1: give lip service all day long, but there's nothing like
Speaker 1: spending the intimate time together. Not necessarily physical, but that
Speaker 1: intimate connection with your partner. In addition, physical is very
Speaker 1: important to me. I can live with not having the
Speaker 1: gifts and you know, the other languages, but the physical
Speaker 1: and the quality time it's very important to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would. I would say the physical and intimacy. The
Speaker 1: intimacy that doesn't necessarily mean physical, right, but those two
Speaker 1: things are really important to me. What about you, Kevin
Speaker 1: and Melissa? So mine is quality time? Quality time gang
Speaker 1: over here and I would say that for me. It's
Speaker 1: so funny. We were just on some other show the
Speaker 1: other day and we were kind of going through our
Speaker 1: definition of love and one of the hosts said this
Speaker 1: to me, and I was like, that's true for me,
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize it. I define love in terms
Speaker 1: of safety. So if I feel comfortable and safe with you,
Speaker 1: to give me or to give you like my heart,
Speaker 1: then that's when I that's love to me. And the
Speaker 1: only way that I get there, I realized for me
Speaker 1: is through quality time and specifically, like let's talk. Let's
Speaker 1: have a conversation. Tell me about your fears, tell me
Speaker 1: about your dreams, tell me about what you're afraid of,
Speaker 1: what your ultimate goals are, Like, let's sit and talk
Speaker 1: all the deep down dirty stuff. Let's have this conversation.
Speaker 1: And in that you're building trust, you're building rapport, you're
Speaker 1: building all of those things that helped me. That are
Speaker 1: my definitions of love and so you. For me, it's
Speaker 1: far and above, I mean just far and away quality time.
Speaker 1: The second one would be acts of service, which I
Speaker 1: feel like that's a very seasonal type of situation for me.
Speaker 1: I feel like when my kids were young, that's always
Speaker 1: very important, Like helped me around this house. You don't
Speaker 1: see these dishes, you don't see it as flow. You
Speaker 1: don't want to pick up a room, you won't do nothing.
Speaker 1: As I've gotten older and my kids have gotten older,
Speaker 1: the gap between At one time they were very neck
Speaker 1: and neck, but as my kids have gotten older, the
Speaker 1: gap between those two have definitely expanded. So it's far
Speaker 1: and away. Yeah, quality time. For me, it's physical touch
Speaker 1: and words of affirmation. I feel like they're very close
Speaker 1: to each other. I need to be hugged, love kissed,
Speaker 1: hold me, touch my hand, put your foot on me,
Speaker 1: let me feel your cold tosies, like you know, let's
Speaker 1: be close. You know, I was all And that's not
Speaker 1: even just with Melissa's with my children as well. I'm
Speaker 1: the very affectionate person hugs and kisses, you know. Well
Speaker 1: with one of my sons. The other ones, his love
Speaker 1: language is not physical touch, so we we don't do
Speaker 1: that with him. Uh. But the words of affirmation, I um,
Speaker 1: I need to be verbally hugged, so to speak. Uh.
Speaker 1: Otherwise I feel like, you know, God, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel unloved, especially if I'm working on something that
Speaker 1: is very difficult for me, you know, like you know.
Speaker 1: One of the things Melissa and I've realized, the the
Speaker 1: benefit of being together for a long time is you
Speaker 1: know each other very well. The drawback is that when
Speaker 1: you're together for twenty years, you really, you know, imagine
Speaker 1: the person you were when you were sixteen and the
Speaker 1: person you were at thirty six. They're very different people,
Speaker 1: you know. But We've had to go through all those
Speaker 1: changes together. So that requires is loving a person differently
Speaker 1: as they go through those changes. In Melissa's case, you know,
Speaker 1: no kids to one kid to two kids, to working
Speaker 1: in Corporate America to quitting Corporate America, her parents divorced.
Speaker 1: All of those instances had changes in her personality and
Speaker 1: I had to love her through those and I have
Speaker 1: to change for her as well. And when I'm doing
Speaker 1: something that's very difficult for me, if you acknowledge that
Speaker 1: and then it's more it's easier for me to continue
Speaker 1: to do that. So for the last two years or so,
Speaker 1: I've been working on being more vulnerable, uh, fighting the
Speaker 1: way I grew up, which men are strong and we
Speaker 1: don't show weakness and we don't do that and you
Speaker 1: and you don't break. And then Melissa was like, I
Speaker 1: need you to break. I need you. I need to
Speaker 1: see some fear in you. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to show that. I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to show her that, literally because I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to show it to myself. So Agam, you were saying
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about love is a spiritual um discipline.
Speaker 1: I think that's the phase we're in. So much of
Speaker 1: what we're doing now is the self work to combat
Speaker 1: our childhood and things like that. And we realize how
Speaker 1: if you don't do that self work, it shows up
Speaker 1: as relationship problems in your marriage if left unchecked, and
Speaker 1: it's really hard to come to combat those deepest, darkest
Speaker 1: parts of you. Uh. And they really have nothing to
Speaker 1: do with your spouse in that sense. It is completely
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, they do in the sense that,
Speaker 1: unchecked it would affect your relationship, but it's not your
Speaker 1: your spouse's fault or responsibility to do that, so, you know.
Speaker 1: And listening to you guys talk about the length of
Speaker 1: time that you all have have been together, I realized
Speaker 1: that Rodney and I have known each other for a really,
Speaker 1: really long time, because this is actually the second go
Speaker 1: round for us. We dated years ago and then broke
Speaker 1: up and I married somebody else, and that I married
Speaker 1: somebody else twice. Why didn't you really think about that?
Speaker 1: Was like, hold on, let me know what it one
Speaker 1: or two? I can't remember. I can't just just once,
Speaker 1: just once, just once. I mean, I didn't know the
Speaker 1: marriages and breakups and the folks in between have gotten
Speaker 1: the little uh muddled. We've known each other for a
Speaker 1: really long time. But when you were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: the intimacy and being able to share with one another
Speaker 1: and and be completely comfortable and honest with one another,
Speaker 1: that is one of the most important things to me
Speaker 1: in the relationship that I have with you right now, babe,
Speaker 1: because I feel like that was one thing that I
Speaker 1: didn't have that was so important and all of my
Speaker 1: other marriages. So Rannie and I dated and then I
Speaker 1: don't know how much you guys know about me, but
Speaker 1: thirty something years ah, yeah, and I had well, we
Speaker 1: both had some you know, we both had problems with addiction,
Speaker 1: and my inability to get my ship together is one
Speaker 1: of the reasons that led us to to break up.
Speaker 1: And it's really kind of interfered with that relationship and
Speaker 1: my second marriage because of drug addiction, so you know,
Speaker 1: and thinking about all that and recognizing that back then,
Speaker 1: like now we've come to back together and we are
Speaker 1: totally different people, thank God. And people think about, well,
Speaker 1: you know, do you feel like you missed time being together,
Speaker 1: like what would have been? Do you wish that you
Speaker 1: hadn't we couldn't have been together back then? It wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been successful, right, not at all. So we met.
Speaker 1: I was in recovery and she wasn't so well. I
Speaker 1: was trying to get there, but that's a that's a
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster already from the onset, so it was
Speaker 1: destined to fail. But we tried. You know, we we
Speaker 1: cared about each other, and I cared about her struggle,
Speaker 1: and I really didn't know at first, you know, she
Speaker 1: hit it from me real well. But then when it
Speaker 1: became obvious, I tried to help her in a struggle.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just it just didn't work. And I
Speaker 1: was starting to feel like it was wearing on my
Speaker 1: own sobriety, so we had to we had to move on.
Speaker 1: But when we came came back together some thirty years later,
Speaker 1: she was a totally different person and I was too.
Speaker 1: I mean, the people with that we were couldn't have
Speaker 1: sustained the relationship at that point anyway. So it was
Speaker 1: good that we came back together and it was like
Speaker 1: I was meeting her for the first time, but she
Speaker 1: was the person that I believe she could be thirty
Speaker 1: years ago, which was which was amazing to me. And
Speaker 1: you know, it was just my trials and tribulations had
Speaker 1: made me someone different too, so it was like we
Speaker 1: were two totally different people by that time, and it was,
Speaker 1: it was, it was. It worked out really well for us,
Speaker 1: and even to yeah, even to this day, were still
Speaker 1: learning new things about each other, were still growing in
Speaker 1: the relationship some eight nine years later, and you know
Speaker 1: that's on a daily basis for us. We still talk
Speaker 1: about our stuff on a regular basis, and and that
Speaker 1: helps us to like stay fresh and and to stay
Speaker 1: grounded in the relationship. I've been married like four times.
Speaker 1: Rodney has never been married, never been married. I'm sixty
Speaker 1: four years old. We got married when I was sixty
Speaker 1: mm hmmm, yeah, so my parents were together for sixty
Speaker 1: something years. But it was they argued, and the marriage
Speaker 1: wasn't really what I considered loving. So I really didn't
Speaker 1: have a great administration of what marriage was. And then
Speaker 1: most of the people that I talked to that we're
Speaker 1: married weren't really happy. So I had a very distorted
Speaker 1: concept and image of marriage. So I I didn't see
Speaker 1: that for me, and I was a bit of a
Speaker 1: selfish guy. I wanted to do what I wanted to
Speaker 1: do when I wanted to do it. And you did
Speaker 1: that for many many I did that for many many years. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you had a good old time and it worked
Speaker 1: for me. You know, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to drag people into my stuff and have them,
Speaker 1: you know, and be committed to someone that I wasn't
Speaker 1: really ready to honor. Right. I didn't give you props
Speaker 1: for that, But though, babe, I give you props that
Speaker 1: you you waited so long and you didn't just get
Speaker 1: married because it was the thing to do. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was the thing to do. Yeah. Now simple as my
Speaker 1: sponsor and my my good, good, good, good good girlfriend.
Speaker 1: So you know, you and I what we hear from
Speaker 1: Melissa and Kevin that that has not been our story
Speaker 1: at all. So talk to me about you because you're
Speaker 1: actually Muslim and you've been married. Now, you said you
Speaker 1: were married three and a half times. What does that mean?
Speaker 1: But really I've been married thirty five years, just to
Speaker 1: four different people. Okay. So you know when I talked
Speaker 1: about being married three and a half times, I have
Speaker 1: my first marriage, which was actually in active addiction, and
Speaker 1: I entered that marriage looking for an escape from the streets,
Speaker 1: only to be driven back out to the streets because
Speaker 1: of the domestic violence that was involved in that marriage.
Speaker 1: And as a thought of that, that is when I
Speaker 1: decided that my life needed to change and I wanted
Speaker 1: to embark on a journey of recovery, recovery from substance use.
Speaker 1: And that was over thirty one years ago. And so
Speaker 1: once I got clean. See, I like what Kevin said
Speaker 1: about how enduring a marriage and staying and it makes
Speaker 1: you face some of your own issues. They have nothing
Speaker 1: to do with your partner. Your own childhood issues have
Speaker 1: nothing to do with your partner. And my childhood issue
Speaker 1: that drove me into marriage was abandonment, and I went
Speaker 1: there looking for security. So once I got clean, and
Speaker 1: that is at the same time that I embraced this lamb,
Speaker 1: I got married, you know, and I say it was
Speaker 1: a love marriage. It met most of my needs most
Speaker 1: of the time until it didn't. But there are some
Speaker 1: other issues that come along with abandonment, such as insecurity
Speaker 1: and living with a whole lot of fear. So I
Speaker 1: didn't have the the example in my life in childhood
Speaker 1: or even growing up, of couples staying together and weathering
Speaker 1: the storms, you know, going through those valleys and achieving
Speaker 1: and reaching those mountaintops. I didn't have that. So the
Speaker 1: minute something went wrong and it went wrong and real wrong,
Speaker 1: I made a decision to get out. And so that
Speaker 1: is what I did. But going back to that childhood
Speaker 1: issue of abandonment, I'm like, oh, I ain't gonna be
Speaker 1: no hole. I ain't gonna be out here doing all
Speaker 1: this stuff. Let me find me a boot. And I
Speaker 1: actually sat back after doing a short period of healing
Speaker 1: from that second marriage, and I picked someone out of
Speaker 1: the crowd. I said, you know what, he's nice, he's responsible,
Speaker 1: he's attentive. I'm going to marry him. And it happened
Speaker 1: just like that. And that is the half marriage. And
Speaker 1: it became a half marriage because he was very in
Speaker 1: love with me, passionately in love with me, provided all
Speaker 1: the gifts all the time, but I was not passionately
Speaker 1: in love with him. And after about eight months I
Speaker 1: had to make a very very hard decision to own
Speaker 1: my own feelings. Because one of the things that we
Speaker 1: do in the recovery processes we get in touch with ourselves,
Speaker 1: and recovery is universal, it doesn't even it's not limited
Speaker 1: to substance use. And I prayed about it. I talked
Speaker 1: with my emam, I engaged my religious community because we
Speaker 1: were both members there, and I would be doing him
Speaker 1: I felt, this is what I felt, I would be
Speaker 1: doing him a disservice to stay married to him, because
Speaker 1: he was such a great person and he deserved so
Speaker 1: much more. And it was one of the hardest things
Speaker 1: that I had to do. I had to think about,
Speaker 1: what are people going to say about me? We had
Speaker 1: this beautiful wedding, and now eight months later, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get out of it. You're gonna break the heart of
Speaker 1: one of the nicest guys you could meet. But it
Speaker 1: was what I had to do, right. You know what,
Speaker 1: I can relate to that civil too, because I felt
Speaker 1: like that to a certain extent with my third marriage.
Speaker 1: With the third marriage, we were together for the longest,
Speaker 1: over twenty years, but I just felt like he deserved
Speaker 1: to be loved the way he wanted to be loved.
Speaker 1: But so did I. You know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: deserve to be loved the way I needed to be loved.
Speaker 1: I never doubted that he loved me. He just didn't
Speaker 1: love me the way I needed to be loved. And
Speaker 1: after spending all that time with him and wanting to
Speaker 1: you know, wanting things to work out. You just get
Speaker 1: to the point where for me, I I just recognized
Speaker 1: that I had more years behind me than I did
Speaker 1: in front of me, and I needed to be happy.
Speaker 1: I just wasn't willing to sacrifice my own happiness, you know, anymore.
Speaker 1: And so that that's what led me to that that
Speaker 1: divorce after so many years, and I mean I had to.
Speaker 1: I you know, I was concerned about what other people
Speaker 1: would think, and you know, I was concerned about him.
Speaker 1: I knew that it wasn't what he really wanted, and
Speaker 1: I understood what that felt like. I understood what that
Speaker 1: felt like to not to want our marriage, to want
Speaker 1: to to last, and have the other person not really
Speaker 1: be interested in and given it a shot. So but anyway,
Speaker 1: go ahead, okay. And so then I entered my fourth marriage.
Speaker 1: I was very much in love with my husband. However,
Speaker 1: in looking at myself, because you know, I'm the person
Speaker 1: that was in all these marriages, I'm the one that's
Speaker 1: growing through them because I really do believe in marriage,
Speaker 1: and I believe that there are some things that you
Speaker 1: will never experience unless you are in a married relationship.
Speaker 1: You kind of you get to know yourself in a
Speaker 1: way that you would never know yourself. Based on my
Speaker 1: spiritual belief and my religious belief, I just believe that
Speaker 1: God puts some things in marriages that you cannot reach
Speaker 1: in any other type of relationship in your life. There
Speaker 1: is a depth of knowing that comes with a good marriage.
Speaker 1: There is a depth of loving that you. It surpasses
Speaker 1: any other kind of love that that you could experience
Speaker 1: with your children, your parents, are the family members, other friends.
Speaker 1: There's something about that divine connection that's really an interesting
Speaker 1: point because I wanna I want to ask you, Rodney,
Speaker 1: how you feel about that, because well, I'm just curious,
Speaker 1: after all the years that you went without marrying and
Speaker 1: not making marriage a priority, what was it that made
Speaker 1: you decide that you wanted to get married, Because you
Speaker 1: kind of made that pretty clear when we got together
Speaker 1: that marriage was something that you wanted. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: at this point in my life, I wanted something more
Speaker 1: more stable and more long, you know, with some longevity
Speaker 1: to it. You know, like civil was saying that when
Speaker 1: you're not married, the commitment is here. Right when you're married,
Speaker 1: that commitment I can't. I gotta use this hand too,
Speaker 1: So it's I remember, the audience can't see you, babe,
Speaker 1: The audience can't see you. So the commitment level isn't
Speaker 1: what it is when you're when you're in a marriage
Speaker 1: like it's I can't think of much that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: do to try to preserve this. But when you're in
Speaker 1: a relationship, just a typical relationship, and you wake up
Speaker 1: one day and feel like this isn't working for you,
Speaker 1: you can just make a decision to get out of
Speaker 1: it and just say, you know what, it's a conversation.
Speaker 1: It's not even I mean, people are going to be
Speaker 1: hurt on both sides, but it's but you know, in
Speaker 1: this it asked of me to do work that I'm
Speaker 1: willing to do that. There's not much that I can't
Speaker 1: think of that I wouldn't be willing to do to
Speaker 1: preserve this marriage and and in relationships, you know, and
Speaker 1: prior to this, I never I never felt like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would do work to a point, but
Speaker 1: if it got to be look, this is you know,
Speaker 1: this is getting to be a lot too much. Because
Speaker 1: you didn't even you didn't even live with anybody, did
Speaker 1: you that, Kevin? Did you? You and Melissa lived together
Speaker 1: before you got Oh no, Dan were saved. You know
Speaker 1: we did. That was the devil. So we wouldn't do
Speaker 1: none of that shocking up. You know we did. This
Speaker 1: was this was holy land a man, we was, We
Speaker 1: was saved. Sell a bit. You know. I had my
Speaker 1: own apartment. Melissa actually has never lived alone. I don't
Speaker 1: think Melissa never lived alone. She moved from her parents house.
Speaker 1: She had roommates in her first three years of college,
Speaker 1: and then she moved in with me. I had my
Speaker 1: own apartment for about a year maybe year and a half, uh,
Speaker 1: prior to us being married. But we never lived together.
Speaker 1: That was absolutely forbidden. You know. We we did spend
Speaker 1: the night about three or four times, and I hope
Speaker 1: Melissa mom ain't listening to that, but you know, we
Speaker 1: would still say we did. We spend about four times.
Speaker 1: But other than that, other than that, we we didn't
Speaker 1: shock up. Hey man, we we we were separate. I
Speaker 1: just really find that interesting, Rodney, did you never even
Speaker 1: look because that is even a level of commitment you
Speaker 1: live with zena. But well, I lived with a couple
Speaker 1: of people and it wasn't long. It was probably like
Speaker 1: a year and a half for each person. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that you were Yeah, you were teenage, were not teenage,
Speaker 1: had to high school. We were in out twenties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we went out twenties. But yeah, I just I just,
Speaker 1: I don't know. For some reason, having that experience earlier,
Speaker 1: I just felt like I did better when I was
Speaker 1: by myself. And that early experience, I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: happened that kind of really put me in that in
Speaker 1: that stage. In that point, the apartment was in her name,
Speaker 1: and we had we had a you know where I'm
Speaker 1: getting ready to go with this Kevin. So mad day happened.
Speaker 1: And when mad Day came, you know, she asked me
Speaker 1: to leave, and I had to leave. You know, I
Speaker 1: was asked you to leave. She told you to get
Speaker 1: the funk out, and I'm I'm twenty one years old,
Speaker 1: so I don't have luggage. So I had those green
Speaker 1: trash bags. I had the green trash bags going down
Speaker 1: the street, put them in my car. And that was
Speaker 1: an experience I did not ever want to have again. Ronnie.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting you we call this your your marriage story.
Speaker 1: There's your finance story, your marriage story, and that's like
Speaker 1: how what happened early in your life that helped frame
Speaker 1: how you see things and your parents marriage story, like
Speaker 1: you're seeing a long term marriage that wasn't healthy. Your mindset,
Speaker 1: this is bad. I don't want that. I think that's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a and this goes back to the
Speaker 1: self work. Your your money story. Melissa saw her dad
Speaker 1: uh paying bills one day and being frustrated and and
Speaker 1: or a couple of times, and in her mind builds
Speaker 1: equal stress. Even though now in our life we don't
Speaker 1: have any you know, money problems, in her mind, she's
Speaker 1: always kind of like, who, you know, what's coming around
Speaker 1: the corner, because that she connects with that money story
Speaker 1: and even the living with that person when you were
Speaker 1: young and having that bad experience. There's there's so much
Speaker 1: of that in our lives that we take as truth
Speaker 1: and ingraining. We don't think that it can ever not
Speaker 1: be that way. And that's why that self work is
Speaker 1: important because now you realize, well, that was just one
Speaker 1: time when I was young, and I got you know,
Speaker 1: like the next person might not even treated me this way,
Speaker 1: or I would have had a nice luggage. So we
Speaker 1: if I'm walking down the street, I could roll it
Speaker 1: and I don't have to carry it. You know, but
Speaker 1: we we take those trash bag stories into our next relationship.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, literally and figuratively, you're like that, I won't
Speaker 1: even give you, you know. We so the next person,
Speaker 1: we're like, I won't even give you a chance to
Speaker 1: do that because I won't move in with you, and like,
Speaker 1: but it could have been in your name and you
Speaker 1: would die. Nope, nope. But we protect ourselves that way
Speaker 1: from the potential of further harm. But in a lot
Speaker 1: of times, when we protect ourselves, we also prevent ourselves
Speaker 1: from feeling love fully because we have our garden in
Speaker 1: so many different ways. Which is the difference between boundaries
Speaker 1: and walls. So boundaries there's a door, walls there's no door,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times and protecting ourselves, we isolate
Speaker 1: ourselves in walls. That was really good. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: here for. That's a good one, Melissa. That that's a
Speaker 1: great visual because you could have a door there and
Speaker 1: then you know what, I'm gonna just go ahead and
Speaker 1: break this up. And now you know, you know, you've
Speaker 1: you've you've isolated yourself and your feelings from receiving love
Speaker 1: that could have been there, and I potentially did that.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that that wasn't, you know,
Speaker 1: a possibility at some point in my life before I
Speaker 1: was sixty m What opened you guys up to each other?
Speaker 1: Um to try and again? Yeah, years later, I think
Speaker 1: it's really beautiful and impressive. But what opened you up,
Speaker 1: Rodney to to the possibility of love and marriage after
Speaker 1: deciding it wasn't for you For so long, I felt
Speaker 1: like there was always some unfinished business with me and her.
Speaker 1: So when we started talking again, it was the connection
Speaker 1: just came back like like it was yesterday. And I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen her in many years, but the connection came
Speaker 1: back like it was yesterday. And then it just kept
Speaker 1: getting better and better and better, and our communication was
Speaker 1: off the chain, so it was relatively easy for me
Speaker 1: at that point. I I knew I wanted to get married.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the you know, not that
Speaker 1: I wear gold chains, but I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: the old guy in the club with the gold chain on.
Speaker 1: I can say I witnessed that I'll never forget when
Speaker 1: gam moved back to Baltimore and we were out for
Speaker 1: breakfast and oh my god, you came into the restaurant
Speaker 1: and she got all nervous and ginny, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: damn it, it's look it was like it never left.
Speaker 1: It never left. Yeah, I witnessed that, but we weren't.
Speaker 1: We weren't seeing each other then. Yeah, that was just
Speaker 1: we ran into each other. But even just running into you,
Speaker 1: like I kind of was all over you at gave
Speaker 1: you a great big old hug and got a google eyed.
Speaker 1: You came and sat at the table with us for
Speaker 1: a few minutes, and then you left, and I was
Speaker 1: no more good after that. I was like, okay, Civil,
Speaker 1: Civil wasn't as impressed, though Civil was like, okay, we
Speaker 1: can ready to do something. We were actually supposed to
Speaker 1: be doing some step work. I think I think we
Speaker 1: were supposed to be doing some step work and I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't concentrate a like okay, you gotta go. We
Speaker 1: get ready to do something. But they happened a couple
Speaker 1: of times like we kind of ran into each other
Speaker 1: that like at meetings and stuff like that. But you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: so Kevin, to answer you a question, it was I
Speaker 1: guess it was something that never left. And then seeing
Speaker 1: her and talking to her again and seeing you know,
Speaker 1: where she had evolved to and just knowing, you know,
Speaker 1: the work that I had done and where I had
Speaker 1: evolved too. It was it was almost like when those
Speaker 1: two energies came together, it was it was just unbelievable.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I was going to say
Speaker 1: about marriage, I think dam asked the question earlier, is
Speaker 1: the advice that you would give a single person is that,
Speaker 1: and you kind of both just alluded to and just
Speaker 1: your own story, is that you have to have a
Speaker 1: very strong sense of self in order for a we
Speaker 1: to work. And I think a lot of times, um
Speaker 1: singul or not, we have this very fantasized view of
Speaker 1: what marriage is that you can go in with all
Speaker 1: of these broken pieces or these pieces of yourself that
Speaker 1: you're not even familiar with, you can't even call or name,
Speaker 1: and then you go into this relationship where this person
Speaker 1: wants to get to know you and you don't know you. Hello,
Speaker 1: is some body make it makes sense? And so the
Speaker 1: beautiful thing, even in hearing your story and going through
Speaker 1: all going through life, is that you learn about you
Speaker 1: and that's part of the journey of marriage. And then
Speaker 1: once you have a very strong sense of self, it's
Speaker 1: so much easier to bond your life with someone because
Speaker 1: you're very clear on I think Sybil was saying, this
Speaker 1: is how I need to be loved. Man, Listen, this
Speaker 1: is these are my dudes, these are my do not okay,
Speaker 1: And it's very very clear for you and you go
Speaker 1: into even in the dating phase, you'll know, off jump,
Speaker 1: this ain't gonna work. I'm gonna just let you know
Speaker 1: off jump, the way I operate, it's not gonna work
Speaker 1: with your personality. That doesn't work without that very strong
Speaker 1: centered sense of self. And then once you get into
Speaker 1: the relationship or you get into marriage, the other thing
Speaker 1: that holds, that keeps the longevity is there is just
Speaker 1: a certain conviction that is unexplained that comes with the
Speaker 1: vows and a ring of saying I do. There is
Speaker 1: just a conviction there that is not that cannot be
Speaker 1: transferred to any relationship that doesn't have that ring and
Speaker 1: that documentation. I know a lot of times people it's
Speaker 1: just a piece of paper, but it's not though. But
Speaker 1: it's not though. It's just something about it that again,
Speaker 1: it just brings a level of commitment and conviction that's
Speaker 1: just not easily explained. I even think in today's world
Speaker 1: there's a very I don't know. We always think of,
Speaker 1: you know, the marriage isn't taking a serious marriage isn't
Speaker 1: taken a serious and I almost, I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: almost would argue the opposite. I'm kind of going through
Speaker 1: these thoughts right now as I'm talking, so I might
Speaker 1: change my mind as I'm talking, Okay, that I think
Speaker 1: we put marriage to on such a high esteem that
Speaker 1: when it's not right, we'd rather get out of it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's hey, I honestly do. I think
Speaker 1: that's okay. I think we have to go into marriage
Speaker 1: again with that song sense of self and what we
Speaker 1: want out of it, and then maybe you don't have
Speaker 1: the divorce later on. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if you're saying I know and I respect the sanctity
Speaker 1: of marriage, and I understand that it could be something
Speaker 1: so beautiful and something that allows me to show up
Speaker 1: as a better and different person than I was before,
Speaker 1: then it's okay. And recognizing this ain't the one. I
Speaker 1: don't know where this went left and where we went
Speaker 1: a ride, but for the betterment of you and for
Speaker 1: the betterment of me, we can't. We can no longer
Speaker 1: be together. And I think that's Okay. I have the
Speaker 1: analogy in my mind of like you go to a restaurant,
Speaker 1: you ask the waitress or waiter what's what's good here,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times they're like, well, what do
Speaker 1: you like? What don't you like? Do you? So? If
Speaker 1: you don't like spicy food, that spicy dish might be
Speaker 1: great to someone who likes spicy food, but if you know,
Speaker 1: hey man, it doesn't matter how good it is. I
Speaker 1: don't like spicy food. I'm And that's kind of what
Speaker 1: you were saying, Rodney, much like the versions of you
Speaker 1: got you and Gam early you're like, hey man, I
Speaker 1: don't like this spicy food, and gam and spicy food
Speaker 1: right now? You know so uh, But it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with each person. Like I avocados something
Speaker 1: some people just texture wise can't get with. Nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with avocados. And I think that's kind of how you
Speaker 1: should date if you're single, Like you need to know how,
Speaker 1: Like the most important thing is how I like to
Speaker 1: be loved, to be able to communicate that, and then
Speaker 1: can that person love you in that way? If that
Speaker 1: person cannot give you words of affirmation, then like if
Speaker 1: Melissa couldn't give that to me, I'm gonna have a
Speaker 1: hard time loving her or I'm gonna have a hard
Speaker 1: time being with her, because this is how I receive love.
Speaker 1: And if you can't speak that language to me, then
Speaker 1: you can buy me gifts every single day, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't make me feel loved. You're gonna be like, should
Speaker 1: I do this, this, that, and that? You know, and
Speaker 1: you don't feel loved, Like it's the last thing to say.
Speaker 1: Melissa's love language is not gifts, but she appreciates them.
Speaker 1: So I gave her, you know, some roses last week,
Speaker 1: and I bought her some Ivy park too, but that
Speaker 1: was just a gesture, yeah, you know, because she had
Speaker 1: mentioned and I felt so good game because I had
Speaker 1: already ordered it for her and she didn't know. She
Speaker 1: was like, man, it was sold out, and I was like, little,
Speaker 1: do you know, it's already on the way. But to me,
Speaker 1: early in our marriage, I used to get frustrated when
Speaker 1: I gave her a gift and she didn't jump for
Speaker 1: joy and show me love. But that's before I knew
Speaker 1: that's not her love language. Now I can just yeah,
Speaker 1: now I can just give her a gift as a
Speaker 1: kind gesture and not expect her to be jumping for
Speaker 1: joy because I know she appreciates that, but it's not
Speaker 1: how she feels love. I gotta stay up till two
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning talking to you know, eep deep
Speaker 1: parts of our soul and not being sleepy, and that
Speaker 1: will make her feel love more than the Ivy Park
Speaker 1: And it's cheaper. I mean park was you know. I
Speaker 1: was like dog Beyonce. So I had my home girl
Speaker 1: buy it from me gamm and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: just get her like seven eight things. And she got
Speaker 1: the bill. I say, girl, seven or eight things. She
Speaker 1: was like, that was seven or eight things. I was like, alee, Jesus,
Speaker 1: this Ivy Park place. So, so what I'm hearing from
Speaker 1: you guys, even though you have managed to stay together
Speaker 1: all these years, you understand when people do divorce. So, Simbil,
Speaker 1: how how do you feel about the fact that you've
Speaker 1: been through a series of divorces? Because I don't feel
Speaker 1: any kind of way about myself about it, But let
Speaker 1: me just be clear about that. I'm I'm good because
Speaker 1: Jada asked me, like when Rodney and I decided to
Speaker 1: get married, she was like, why why are you getting
Speaker 1: married again? Like you're not gonna have kids, Like, what
Speaker 1: is what is the draw? I don't get it. You've
Speaker 1: been divorced three times? Why not just enjoy each other?
Speaker 1: But I have to agree with with Melissa on this
Speaker 1: that there's something and and Rodney had said it to
Speaker 1: me too. There's some think about the level of commitment
Speaker 1: that you have when you're in a marriage that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist if you're just living together and or just dating.
Speaker 1: You know, when things get tough, you just you can
Speaker 1: easily get going and get gone, And it's not that easy.
Speaker 1: And so that willingness to commit to me and to
Speaker 1: us and to the relationship and the marriage was really
Speaker 1: really important to me. And quite frankly, I like being married.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that relationship. I enjoyed that partnership because I
Speaker 1: feel like that's what we have. We have a partnership.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like do so, let me ask the
Speaker 1: divorces a question. Do you think that because having being
Speaker 1: in this marriage has taught me, I feel like there's
Speaker 1: not much I wouldn't do to preserve it. So do
Speaker 1: you feel like getting a divorce? It's more about an
Speaker 1: expectation of other people that you came into the marriage
Speaker 1: with or an expectation of yourself, like what do you
Speaker 1: feel like happens? And I know all experiences are different,
Speaker 1: so what do you what do you feel like happens
Speaker 1: in a divorce to make that to make you finally
Speaker 1: just go ahead and get well, my answer is quick
Speaker 1: and easy, So you go ahead, Simbil, go ahead and
Speaker 1: answer that well, Rodney. For me personally, out of the
Speaker 1: marriages that I had, there was only one that looking back,
Speaker 1: that I probably would have stayed in had I had
Speaker 1: the information to support me in that. And my faith
Speaker 1: walk divorce is frowned upon, however it is allowed in
Speaker 1: certain situations. And I think that for me, I've grown
Speaker 1: through every marriage and every divorce to just get a
Speaker 1: better understand ending of who I am. And so I
Speaker 1: think there's uh perseverance, very high level of commitment. And
Speaker 1: for me, the expectation was not so much on the
Speaker 1: other person as much as it was on myself. But
Speaker 1: I love the sharing that Melissa gave when she talked
Speaker 1: about how important it is to know who you are
Speaker 1: before you enter a commitment you know, with someone else,
Speaker 1: and gam and and answer to your question about being divorced,
Speaker 1: you know, I've learned so much through my marriages. I
Speaker 1: don't feel any kind of way about having been married
Speaker 1: and divorced. I actually filed for all four divorces, two
Speaker 1: of which we filed together at the courthouse, in a
Speaker 1: very you know, very friendly type manner, and you know,
Speaker 1: still have good relationships today. So I don't feel any
Speaker 1: kind of way. However, the person that I am today,
Speaker 1: given the opportunity to connect with that right person, um
Speaker 1: more equipped to stay in a marriage than I was before.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't feel any kind of way.
Speaker 1: I think oftentimes divorces who's gonna win, and there is
Speaker 1: no winner. There is no winner really in divorce because Rodney,
Speaker 1: you yourself mentioned at one point in the dialogue that
Speaker 1: in situations where you part you know, both parties experienced
Speaker 1: some type of hurt. Yeah. Absolutely. I think the thing
Speaker 1: that really worked for us is that coming into the relationship,
Speaker 1: I didn't really need anything from her and she didn't
Speaker 1: need anything for me from me, like we were already
Speaker 1: who we were, you know. So it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of acceptance, and you know I wasn't. I didn't have
Speaker 1: any expectations in terms of I need you to do
Speaker 1: this or you need me to do that, and so
Speaker 1: it made it a lot easier just to focus on
Speaker 1: the relationship itself because there was no there was no
Speaker 1: other expectations. And for me, well, the first time I
Speaker 1: got divorced from I was so young, you know, I
Speaker 1: was like seventeen when I got married to Jada's dad,
Speaker 1: So like that obviously wasn't gonna work. And the second time,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, once again, my addiction was at
Speaker 1: the root of it, and the other party, just my
Speaker 1: husband at the time, just wasn't interested in doing any work.
Speaker 1: I feel like if we had been able to to,
Speaker 1: if he had agreed to go to counseling with me,
Speaker 1: that that probably would have led me into the path
Speaker 1: of recovery, and we still may not have been together.
Speaker 1: I can almost guarantee we would not have been together anyway.
Speaker 1: So but at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to force anybody to be in a
Speaker 1: relationship with me that didn't want to be right. And
Speaker 1: then the third time, it was just recognizing that even
Speaker 1: through all the years that we have been together, all
Speaker 1: the therapy, the individual therapy, the marriage counseling, you know,
Speaker 1: all of it that you know we were just growing
Speaker 1: in different directions, and I just I felt like, I
Speaker 1: truly felt like I had done everything that I could
Speaker 1: possibly do to try to keep the relationship together. But
Speaker 1: when people just aren't willing to are comfortable where they
Speaker 1: are and and don't want to make any kind of adjustment,
Speaker 1: then you know, I had to put my own happiness first.
Speaker 1: And so I feel like I did as much work
Speaker 1: as I as I could to keep that that that
Speaker 1: relationship together. Well, and you're gonna say something, Melissa, Oh,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say you were clean. You said during
Speaker 1: your third marriage. Yes, yes, yeah, I was clean and
Speaker 1: that was yeah, and he was all very much a
Speaker 1: part of that. That my third husband, he you know,
Speaker 1: he was with me from the very beginning on through
Speaker 1: of that. And so I have what now, thirty years clean.
Speaker 1: But one thing that I want to talk about just this,
Speaker 1: you know, this idea of this getting married so young
Speaker 1: and like we have this expectation in the United States.
Speaker 1: It's just such a fairy tale, right, and people just
Speaker 1: I feel like still like get out of school and
Speaker 1: want to get married and have kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's this whole living this fairy tale that I just
Speaker 1: feel like it's very very hard to to live up
Speaker 1: to and maintain, and the idea, including monogamy, it's just
Speaker 1: so challenge I feel. And Sybil, your daughter just got
Speaker 1: married pretty pretty young. What is your feeling about that?
Speaker 1: Because they're they're together, they're doing great, she's getting ready
Speaker 1: to have another baby. How did you feel when she
Speaker 1: when she decided to get married as young as she did,
Speaker 1: she was what she was want to one And a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't wouldn't think that that's young. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to get
Speaker 1: married and have kids. Yeah, I'll tell you. They have
Speaker 1: been married for seven years now. And I remember when
Speaker 1: she told me, well, actually he told me they were
Speaker 1: going to get married. He asked for my blessings prior
Speaker 1: to asking her, And I want to tell you, I
Speaker 1: was very nervous. I was very nervous because I was
Speaker 1: bringing my own biases to the table and you and
Speaker 1: now at seven years, you know, there are times when
Speaker 1: I may still be a little nervous. And getting married
Speaker 1: so early, they have so many life experiences to go through.
Speaker 1: It is scary. However, when they got married, his dad
Speaker 1: and the tradition and culture that they come from. Said
Speaker 1: to me that they we believe in marriage, and we
Speaker 1: are on the side of marriage versus airing on the
Speaker 1: side of divorce. And so whenever difficulties or challenges come
Speaker 1: up as a family, we will support them and and
Speaker 1: and you know, God willing, they will weather through that.
Speaker 1: And in those seven years, the families have built relationships.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm single, his parents they come visit me,
Speaker 1: they bring gifts, you know, we do all kinds of
Speaker 1: things together to preserve the family unit. And and that
Speaker 1: in turn helps to support their marriage. I think that's rare.
Speaker 1: You know. However, growing up and then having to have
Speaker 1: to go through some life challenges, I'm better equipped to
Speaker 1: support her to to navigate her way through that, whereas
Speaker 1: I I didn't really have that, you know. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. They got married young. They support and motivate
Speaker 1: one another to excellence. They're about to have their third child.
Speaker 1: They don't lean on anyone, they don't take hand outs.
Speaker 1: They fight through their own storms, you know. And so
Speaker 1: it's a little scary sometimes because you know, I've been
Speaker 1: out there, I had life experiences. I know what can happen.
Speaker 1: You know, I know what I couldn't weather, and so
Speaker 1: we just try to look for the greater good in
Speaker 1: that because challenges are going to come. I just that
Speaker 1: always just worries me though, people just getting married so young.
Speaker 1: It just seems like because we have this thing where
Speaker 1: we think that your partner is supposed to be your everything,
Speaker 1: its supposed to be your best friend, your lover, your confidant,
Speaker 1: eat everything. It's like, oh my god, that is so
Speaker 1: much to ask of one person. And so you know,
Speaker 1: it's really unfair to ask that of one person. Whereas
Speaker 1: back in the day and the tradition that we all
Speaker 1: come from, there was the community, there was the village,
Speaker 1: there was the water hole, there were the women, you know,
Speaker 1: and so it's important and this is what we try
Speaker 1: to instill in them, that they each give each other
Speaker 1: a safe place to come back to, but we empower
Speaker 1: and motivate them to then in turn go out and explore,
Speaker 1: which achieve your own goals. You know. So they're both educated.
Speaker 1: You know, she has her circle of friends that don't
Speaker 1: include him. They have friends that they have together and
Speaker 1: vice versa, you know. So it's this whole society that
Speaker 1: we're living in today that wants you to put everything
Speaker 1: into your single partner, and it is unbearable. It really
Speaker 1: is unbearable. Yeah, how do you feel like that? Baby?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like I'm alive? You can be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you certainly can be. But I think the thing, the
Speaker 1: thing that really helped us is we we became each
Speaker 1: other's best friend before we even thought about getting married
Speaker 1: at anything. Like, she became my best friend, Like I
Speaker 1: would rather be with her and hang out and do
Speaker 1: stuff than than to be with any of my male friends,
Speaker 1: because we have a good time to do. We really
Speaker 1: enjoy each other's So we became each other's best friend,
Speaker 1: which made the rest of it relatively easy. And and
Speaker 1: that's still the case to day. But you can be
Speaker 1: you can't be a bit bunchet times like yesterday and
Speaker 1: the day before that. And no, I'm just kidding, but listen,
Speaker 1: did you want to say something? I was gonna say that.
Speaker 1: Kevin and I got married at one as well, so
Speaker 1: we were really young. We had our oldest son by
Speaker 1: the time we were twenty three, and our youngest by
Speaker 1: the time. We were so really, really really young. I
Speaker 1: don't know that I'm anti married young as much as
Speaker 1: I am pro make sure you go to marriage counseling,
Speaker 1: make sure you read all the books, make sure you
Speaker 1: understand why you're getting married, make sure you have again
Speaker 1: a strong sense of self. I think those are the
Speaker 1: things because regardless of whether you get married really young
Speaker 1: or even later in life, you're coming into any scenario
Speaker 1: with something. When you're younger, maybe you don't have as
Speaker 1: much something. You just have life from you know, your childhood.
Speaker 1: When you're older, you got life life know, so you're
Speaker 1: gonna come in with something and being able to work
Speaker 1: through those things together, I think is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: So you don't end up as you were saying, we
Speaker 1: can depend on There's like I have so many thoughts
Speaker 1: to there's two things that can happen. You can lean
Speaker 1: on someone so much where they they crumble under the
Speaker 1: stress and strain of trying to meet and be your everything.
Speaker 1: That's simply not healthy. But you don't want to also
Speaker 1: get too far where your lives are running parallel and
Speaker 1: there's no intersection because marriage is at the intersection, relationship
Speaker 1: is at the intersection, and trying to find that balance
Speaker 1: younger old can be very difficult. I got friends, I
Speaker 1: got this, I got that. You know, the relationship is
Speaker 1: gonna be strong, strong, get forty five, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But then when you're young, you run the
Speaker 1: risk of being so intertwined that you lose your sense
Speaker 1: of self. So I think these problems can exist regardless.
Speaker 1: It's a matter Okay, this is what I'm feeling. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on with me, this is what
Speaker 1: I need right now in this space in my life.
Speaker 1: How do I articulate those things to my husband because
Speaker 1: or your wife, whoever, your spouse, because communication problems are
Speaker 1: prevalent in relationships regardless. And so it's all about on
Speaker 1: my Instagram at one time, I posted this emotions wheel,
Speaker 1: and we have like these primary emotions that were readily
Speaker 1: able to articulate. I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm happy, But
Speaker 1: then angry can actually branch out to I'm actually feeling embarrassed,
Speaker 1: I'm actually feeling um humiliated, I'm actually feeling shameful. Being
Speaker 1: able to articulate those things is actually more important than
Speaker 1: just angry, because for a long time, Kevin would be like,
Speaker 1: my wife just wakes up with attitude. I don't know
Speaker 1: why she just went to bed and woke up, And
Speaker 1: now she has an attitude and in reality, maybe I'm
Speaker 1: feeling triggered. In reality, maybe I'm feeling isolated, or I'm
Speaker 1: feeling lonely, and I don't know how to say I'm
Speaker 1: feeling really lonely, and I feel like I need to
Speaker 1: have a communication with you and we need to talk
Speaker 1: and we need to chat and I need to feel
Speaker 1: that quality time with you. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: say that. I don't have those words. This is how
Speaker 1: she says it, yours on your phone. Even though she
Speaker 1: has her phone in her hand, she put it down
Speaker 1: point seven seconds before she'd be like, all you do
Speaker 1: is be on your phone. Girl, were doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm done now. So I need your attention.
Speaker 1: This is me, this is my truth, and so being
Speaker 1: able to those are the life skills that I feel
Speaker 1: like you need no matter what. And I think we're
Speaker 1: not often to the point earlier, we're not often equipped
Speaker 1: with those life skills. And partly because they weren't, they
Speaker 1: weren't demonstrated to us. My parents didn't. They went to
Speaker 1: bed angry, they went to bed, said, they went to
Speaker 1: bed unresolved. They went like I didn't see them have
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with arguments. It's a matter of how
Speaker 1: you do them. And I didn't see healthy to arguments
Speaker 1: in my family. So I don't talk to me. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be Tomorrow we'll think about what we could do. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not healthy either. Girl. You're gonna have to make
Speaker 1: a decision now, talk about and get it through. And
Speaker 1: so those are the skills that I think we need,
Speaker 1: you know, no matter what I think, it's the point
Speaker 1: I was trying to say, trying to said a whole lot,
Speaker 1: but you get what I'm trying to set and also
Speaker 1: what Melissa and I have come up with this now
Speaker 1: I think, like for Quarantine, for example, Uh, Quarantine put
Speaker 1: a lot of couples under stress and strain because it
Speaker 1: was a very new experience to be with someone twenty
Speaker 1: four hours a day, like in any marriage, it's rare
Speaker 1: that you're you know, like Melissa went to work, I
Speaker 1: went to work, kids went to school, and that time
Speaker 1: where she was getting her hair done, Neil's done, or
Speaker 1: just driving our son of soccer practice. There was so
Speaker 1: much alone time that was kind of like built into
Speaker 1: your everyday life. Uh. Then Quarantine, you know, we we like,
Speaker 1: oh we should get to spend every second very day.
Speaker 1: We was, you know, trying to y'all can't see, but
Speaker 1: Melissa's got right up under me, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I need my space. But it was hard to say,
Speaker 1: you know, And I was a touring comedian, so I
Speaker 1: would I travel all across the country, spend the night
Speaker 1: in hotels for the weekend, enjoy plenty of alone time.
Speaker 1: And she would do the same from home. So you
Speaker 1: never actually had to say I need some space in
Speaker 1: our relationship. Now, you know, in March became April and
Speaker 1: April became May, and I'm like, I want to be
Speaker 1: in my room by myself, without you for for many hours.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with you. I just want to
Speaker 1: be alone. But that came across as you don't love me,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be up on me. All you
Speaker 1: do is being up in this room until we realized,
Speaker 1: oh wow, we haven't had any of our time alone
Speaker 1: that you need to, you know, to feel love again too.
Speaker 1: You know you need a different You know, you don't
Speaker 1: eat your same your favorite food every day for every meal.
Speaker 1: It will not it won't be good anymore. So now
Speaker 1: we know, like, hey, and even if it's just you know,
Speaker 1: in the morning, I go for a walk for an
Speaker 1: hour and a half, go hiking, and now she has
Speaker 1: an hour and a half a loon. I have an
Speaker 1: hour and a half a loon. And if we don't
Speaker 1: have nothing else but that time, that is valuable. But
Speaker 1: a lot of that is understanding what you want to
Speaker 1: convey and then conveying that clearly without being you know, ruded, disrespectful,
Speaker 1: and just say hey, I just need some time by myself,
Speaker 1: you know, so that I can love you better when
Speaker 1: we come together, as opposed to here you go again,
Speaker 1: breathe in my area. You always breathe in an area
Speaker 1: in my room. Breathe air in a different space. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. So what are you looking for as
Speaker 1: we as we start to wind down? What what are
Speaker 1: you looking forward to as once the pandemic is over?
Speaker 1: I would say another year and a half. Like I'm saying,
Speaker 1: what are you looking forward to, babe? As far as
Speaker 1: you and I are concerned, just getting back to what
Speaker 1: our normal was. But I have to say, I think
Speaker 1: the pandemic and all of this negatives, there's been some
Speaker 1: positives too, Yeah, I mean it. It certainly makes you
Speaker 1: take a look at yourself. In the relationship, how you're
Speaker 1: relating to people in general, and have a great appreciation
Speaker 1: for those for those people around you and your family
Speaker 1: and your loved ones, and just communicate differently. I think,
Speaker 1: speaking of communication, that happens to be one of my
Speaker 1: really real an area for me, a real like I
Speaker 1: I don't communicate well, like I get I get angry,
Speaker 1: and I cut you out. You know what, the gam
Speaker 1: even the ability to say that and know that is helpful.
Speaker 1: You're like, you know what, Hey, I'm gonna be pissed.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cust you out just a little bit. But
Speaker 1: after I get that off, we could talk about it.
Speaker 1: I think you're exaggerating. You don't really cuss people out,
Speaker 1: but you you curse you, You use curse words. She
Speaker 1: uses curse words in her communication, but it's not like
Speaker 1: one after another repeatedly. It's just you can tell she's
Speaker 1: angry because she starts to use curse words, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're cursing. I'm not cursing at you. So we can't
Speaker 1: communicate right now until you yeah, because I'm not a
Speaker 1: person who wants to be cursed at. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: allow people to treat me any type of way. I
Speaker 1: deserve better than that, so and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do that to you. So we need to just put
Speaker 1: this on ice right now. But to get back to
Speaker 1: your question about the pandemic, Yeah, I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: getting back to our normal, but I think that, you know, again,
Speaker 1: in the pandemic, there's a lot there's a lot of
Speaker 1: I noticed a lot of distractions that happened in our
Speaker 1: quote unquote normal. So yeah, there's a lot, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of distractions that happened. Like so we don't we
Speaker 1: don't really and to act the way we do now
Speaker 1: because if I don't want to be bothered, I'll go
Speaker 1: to the movies, I'll go shopping, you know, and you'll
Speaker 1: do the same. And we all have the ability to
Speaker 1: do all these other things. But I'm just saying we
Speaker 1: we we have the ability to do all these things
Speaker 1: that separate us from the truth, and and the pandemic
Speaker 1: has caused us to look at the truth, you know,
Speaker 1: and the way we relate to other people, even in ourselves,
Speaker 1: like you know, because we we're She's on one coach
Speaker 1: right now and I'm on the other a lot of times,
Speaker 1: and I'm spending time by myself that I really don't
Speaker 1: want to and I'm recognizing while when I was younger,
Speaker 1: I was really good at being by myself, and I'm
Speaker 1: not as good at it anymore. And that's the truth
Speaker 1: that I'm realizing about myself. And then I, you know,
Speaker 1: we have those conversations. So it's just it's just those
Speaker 1: types of things. But the answer to your question is
Speaker 1: getting back a while normal, but also incorporating the things
Speaker 1: that I've learned from the pandemic to hopefully make things better. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So when we do get back to normal, we're taking
Speaker 1: some of the things that the good things that we've
Speaker 1: learned or and and just relating to one another better.
Speaker 1: But I do know that that is one of my
Speaker 1: areas that is very, very challenging for me. I probably
Speaker 1: need professional help. What about you for me? I I
Speaker 1: I don't want to say I'm thankful for the pandemic,
Speaker 1: but because of how much devastation and you know, life loss.
Speaker 1: But the disruption in our cycle of just going I
Speaker 1: don't say we just had our routine school, soccer, travel,
Speaker 1: this podcast, blah blah blah um. The disruption of the
Speaker 1: cycle caused us to grow together in a new way,
Speaker 1: and we had to learn some new things about each other. Um.
Speaker 1: I would like when we can travel freely, just to
Speaker 1: be able to date like we used to, to go
Speaker 1: to whatever restaurant we want to, to be able to
Speaker 1: travel like those are something I love to travel with
Speaker 1: my wife. We and I'm so thankful that man being
Speaker 1: able to travel with someone who travels like you do,
Speaker 1: and it's interested in this stuff you're interested in who
Speaker 1: I thank god Melissa and I love to experience new
Speaker 1: things together. So um, and that's something we've missed greatly
Speaker 1: uh this year. But I'm grateful for the growth that
Speaker 1: we've had as a result of the pandemic. But then
Speaker 1: I'd be grateful to be firing first class again to
Speaker 1: Amsterdam or something like that. I I want to taste
Speaker 1: wine from another country in another country. I have a
Speaker 1: totally different question for you, because the four of us
Speaker 1: are married, and right now you are not. Are you
Speaker 1: interested in getting married again? I am? Actually I am
Speaker 1: interested in getting married again to the right person because
Speaker 1: I thrive on that partnering relationship. That's been one of
Speaker 1: the biggest challenges for me during the pandemic is being
Speaker 1: in a big house by myself, and what it has
Speaker 1: caused me to do is to strengthen relationships in other areas,
Speaker 1: such as relationships with my children and my grandchildren, because
Speaker 1: prior to COVID, I had such an engaging social life
Speaker 1: which I'm a face to face person. I want to
Speaker 1: see you, I don't want to zoom you, I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk on the phone. And so that part
Speaker 1: of my life has just been severed temporarily. And so yes,
Speaker 1: I would look forward to getting married again because, as
Speaker 1: I said, it shows me a piece of me that
Speaker 1: I can't see in any other way. So well, you
Speaker 1: know said, well, you know, I have some feelings about that.
Speaker 1: I have some feelings that you're being very resistant to
Speaker 1: the online dating situation, and I feel like it's something that,
Speaker 1: regardless of the pandemic, that you may need to open
Speaker 1: your mind and heart to Mama. I think I might
Speaker 1: need a coach for that. I think I might need
Speaker 1: a coach, you know, because I'm so skeptical, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm very particular, and I don't engage in a
Speaker 1: lot of small talk. I like to get straight to
Speaker 1: the chase, you know, so that I can then go
Speaker 1: out and do what I have to do, and so
Speaker 1: I just need some help in that area. So if
Speaker 1: you have help for me, I'm open what you got
Speaker 1: to say with Listen when you're waving your hand and
Speaker 1: listen what you got to say. I am to say.
Speaker 1: I don't like small chat or small talk at all.
Speaker 1: Let's sit down and talk talk like, let's let's do
Speaker 1: the things. And I'm just saying I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I actually maybe I am a anti text or I
Speaker 1: think I am a anti text. I think I prefer like,
Speaker 1: let's sit out and talk and like get to know
Speaker 1: each other for real, for real, Melissa love to just
Speaker 1: talk until the middle of the night with people. I
Speaker 1: be sleepy. I want to speak your love language. I
Speaker 1: just want to speak it at three pm, not not
Speaker 1: two am. I'm just saying that. I think I'm simpl
Speaker 1: I think we are the same. All right, Well, do
Speaker 1: you guys have any dating advice? Let me ask you, Rodney,
Speaker 1: did you have any dating advice for for civil because
Speaker 1: you were you were single for an awful long time,
Speaker 1: Daddy I was. I would I think Simvil has got this.
Speaker 1: But the only thing I would say is just don't settle.
Speaker 1: Don't settle for anything less than what you feel like
Speaker 1: you deserve at this point in your life. That's kind
Speaker 1: of one of the reasons I waited until I was
Speaker 1: sixty because I felt like, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times I was settling, and to be quite honest, I
Speaker 1: felt like if I went into a relationship with this person,
Speaker 1: they'd be settling. I think I think online dating at
Speaker 1: this point, I get this. You know, we're at an
Speaker 1: age where we don't really go to a lot of
Speaker 1: places to meet people, and and that is set up
Speaker 1: to meet people. You can kind of put in your
Speaker 1: filters and just select the people that you want to meet.
Speaker 1: You can kinda talk to him before you have to actually,
Speaker 1: you know, sit down and talk to him. You can
Speaker 1: talk to him online or something. I think that's that's
Speaker 1: just how it's going to be, you know, going forward.
Speaker 1: I think that's the future of dating, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think we should be resistant to that, you know.
Speaker 1: To RTI's point, I think the shoot the pandemic really
Speaker 1: did a number on meeting people in quote unquote real life,
Speaker 1: as if the Internet hadn't already been doing a number.
Speaker 1: But I think the idea of normal has shifted. This
Speaker 1: this is shifted so far from what we were used to.
Speaker 1: You know, I believe technology is in some ways it
Speaker 1: allows you to meet more of a person because you have,
Speaker 1: you know, the separation. All you have is communication. You
Speaker 1: don't have the you don't have the pressure of you
Speaker 1: know this got to move this fast or whatever. Like
Speaker 1: bro we I ain't listen. We've quarantined fortune day before
Speaker 1: I even even we even talk about that. Text me
Speaker 1: called me voice. No, let me see what your voice
Speaker 1: sounds like. I feel like there's a lot of benefits
Speaker 1: to social media that allows us to learn more about
Speaker 1: a person quicker. Um. And honestly, I think there's some
Speaker 1: and there is the last thing gonna say. I think
Speaker 1: there's some online dating without dating sites, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times you find community, uh
Speaker 1: in other spaces, you know, on social media, you you know,
Speaker 1: find like minded individuals. I feel like when you do
Speaker 1: it on a dating site specifically, then there's that it's
Speaker 1: got to be this or nothing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I think finding community on other apps or you know,
Speaker 1: like Melissa has a book club, you know, I have
Speaker 1: a group of Patreon friends. Some people have literally found
Speaker 1: love in the community of you know watching our podcast
Speaker 1: and gotten married, had whole children, but might not have
Speaker 1: met on a dating app. You know it's because you're
Speaker 1: literally swiping a person away. That is an elite move
Speaker 1: to be like I literally moving you away from my
Speaker 1: eyes with my thumb like that. You would never do
Speaker 1: nobody like that in real Imagine you go to a
Speaker 1: bar like, hey, how are you and you just swipe
Speaker 1: your thumb away just like so so yeah, I'd say
Speaker 1: be open to the other aspects of the Internet that
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily like you know, Tinder and hinge and you
Speaker 1: know whatever else. All right, one to ask question before
Speaker 1: we moved to our wouldn't you like to know questions?
Speaker 1: And that is Kevin and Melissa. You guys have been
Speaker 1: married the longest, so far the most successful. Do you
Speaker 1: have any advice that you would give to Rodney because
Speaker 1: he this is so new? So maybe I should say
Speaker 1: Rodney and I not just not just put it all
Speaker 1: on Rodney, but Rodney and I, Oh listen, we gave
Speaker 1: that man. You guys honestly have so much good uh
Speaker 1: bearings about you that that most people don't have at
Speaker 1: any era of their marriage. Um. So no, I think
Speaker 1: you guys are on your way. I think you guys are,
Speaker 1: and from what I've listened to over the last hour,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, they got they've you know, you've learned
Speaker 1: a lot apart that you are applying together, and I
Speaker 1: think that's the most valuable part. I feel like learning
Speaker 1: that person holy not just how they interact with you.
Speaker 1: It is such an important part of learning someone. I
Speaker 1: think um uh and their family story is so valuable.
Speaker 1: Watching Melissa's mom, knowing how her mom got when the
Speaker 1: house was dirty and she just fussed at everybody and
Speaker 1: we were all enemies. Then when Melissa fusses that everybody,
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that's your mama, and I haven't see that.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that, So now I know she's not
Speaker 1: picking on me per se, She's just you guys should
Speaker 1: see Melissa's face. She's totally serious. Okay, moving on to
Speaker 1: our segment, wouldn't you like to know where you answer
Speaker 1: three rapid fire questions with the first phrase that comes
Speaker 1: to your mind? Kevin and Melissa, what books are you
Speaker 1: reading right now? I am reading Barack Obama's The Promised Land. Kevin,
Speaker 1: The Power of Full Engagement. The Powerful Engagement is the
Speaker 1: book I'm reading right now. It's about managing your energy,
Speaker 1: not just your time, how to manage your energy as well.
Speaker 1: Oh cool, cool, that's interesting, babe. What about you. I
Speaker 1: am looking forward to reading Barack Obama's new book. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: and Sybil, I am reading Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. Yes,
Speaker 1: I love that guy. Yeah. What is his name again?
Speaker 1: His name is Emmanuel Acho. Yes, yes, I saw him
Speaker 1: on Oprah. Yeah he's popping right now. Yeah. Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: Kevin and Melissa. One thing you want to get off
Speaker 1: your chest. Mashed potatoes do not belong on the Thanksgiving spread. Oh,
Speaker 1: Rodney would disagree. One. He's not happy unless like last night,
Speaker 1: he was like, Okay, where the mashed potatoes. I was like,
Speaker 1: they're here, babe, they're here. This is the hill she
Speaker 1: is willing to die on. I will die on this hill.
Speaker 1: Mashed potatoes, double log Oh yeah, babe, absolutely, mashed potatoes
Speaker 1: and sweet potatoes. Sorry, Melissa, you lose, you lose. I
Speaker 1: know what I want to get off my chest. Black people,
Speaker 1: we can have Thanksgiving at one. It don't have to
Speaker 1: be so late. We didn't. This is the first time
Speaker 1: in a long time I have been to my grandma's house.
Speaker 1: We was eating at one. I said, this is all right,
Speaker 1: we don't have to wait till four and five. I don't.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be about to die before I eat. It
Speaker 1: allows for adequate eating, nap, eat again, and then it's
Speaker 1: not bad time yet. That's a good one. Civil What
Speaker 1: about to what's one thing you want to get off
Speaker 1: your chest? I just wish more people would look inside
Speaker 1: for healing as opposed to outside for blaming. I just
Speaker 1: found out that one of my siblings was blaming me
Speaker 1: for something that happened many years ago that I didn't
Speaker 1: even do. My other sister did it, and she was
Speaker 1: there and she spoke up. She was like, you've been
Speaker 1: blaming her all these years. I did that and I
Speaker 1: got the butt whipping for it. And so I'd just
Speaker 1: like for people to take care of themselves, go inside
Speaker 1: instead of blaming outside. Got it. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: What about you be? So what I want to get
Speaker 1: off my chest is if I'm in the store with
Speaker 1: you and you're behind me doing social distancing, six ft
Speaker 1: means six ft, Give me my damn six ft, Sybil,
Speaker 1: what's a model that you live by? Don't negotiate against yourself, Sybil,
Speaker 1: you've been in your bag today. I was getting ready
Speaker 1: to say, where did that come from? That's what I
Speaker 1: lived by. I learned that very early in recovery. My
Speaker 1: self esteem was so low. I thought you were always
Speaker 1: going to tell me no, and I retrained, you know,
Speaker 1: to not negotiate against myself. So the sky is the limit.
Speaker 1: It's up to you to tell me no, but it's
Speaker 1: up to me to ask. So I don't negotiate against
Speaker 1: myself anymore. I love that, damn girl. See that's why
Speaker 1: you might sponsor. That's why you might sponsor right there. Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, Kevin and Melissa, I live by. I can
Speaker 1: accept failure. I cannot accept not trying. Mm hmm. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's a good one too. Yeah, failure is fine. I've
Speaker 1: failed a lot. I learned a lot from feeling, but
Speaker 1: I gotta I can lay on my deathbed like man.
Speaker 1: I tried it all. I lost some stuff, but we
Speaker 1: went afterward with everything, and that's that's all I ask
Speaker 1: for myself. Yeah, yeah, Melissa, mine is I am enough
Speaker 1: as is, without change, without exception. It's absolutely my mantra.
Speaker 1: You know what. This has been an awesome conversation Rodney.
Speaker 1: Actually Kevin. Kevin took mine, so I gotta come up
Speaker 1: with another one, because minds was never be afraid to fail.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna come with I'm gonna be a little
Speaker 1: philosophical here and and and say oh easily with love. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a good one too. I actually am working very
Speaker 1: hard to try to live and be in a more
Speaker 1: compassionate space then I have been previously, because that that's
Speaker 1: I'm not good with that. Yes, I thank you guys
Speaker 1: for being on positively gave it was It was so
Speaker 1: much fun. Thank you so much, Kevin and Melissa. Why
Speaker 1: don't you share all of your where people can find
Speaker 1: you on social media and your podcast? So I am
Speaker 1: atmos keep on stage on all social media platforms. He
Speaker 1: is at keV on stage on all social media platforms,
Speaker 1: and together we host a podcast called The Love Our Podcast,
Speaker 1: where again we talked about love, life and the pursuit
Speaker 1: of happiness. We give a lot of our life stories.
Speaker 1: We have tons of experts. Come on and it's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite passion checks and cibil Are you on
Speaker 1: social media? I am on Facebook and it's under my
Speaker 1: name symbol Amaney M Hm and Rodney, I know that's
Speaker 1: all you do. You're you're not a big social media person.
Speaker 1: It's okay, big thank you guys for joining us. It's
Speaker 1: been a pleasure. Have a great day, all right. Bye.
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests Rodney, Sybil, Melissa and Kevin
Speaker 1: for sharing their relationship stories. And these are my five takeaway.
Speaker 1: Number one, don't negotiate against yourself. Number two, you need
Speaker 1: to know who you are as an individual before you
Speaker 1: can commit to someone else. Number three, communication is key.
Speaker 1: Take the time to figure out what you're feeling and
Speaker 1: how to express it clearness. Number four, you deserve to
Speaker 1: be loved the way you want to be loved, not
Speaker 1: have someone else wants to love you. And number five
Speaker 1: marriage takes work. Make sure you're ready, babe, you got
Speaker 1: anything you want to add? My takeaway is I'm glad
Speaker 1: I waited as long as I did to get married
Speaker 1: and I'm glad it was you, babe, Babe, I love you.
Speaker 1: We're done here, Let's go home positively. Gam is produced
Speaker 1: by Westbrook Audio Executive producers Adrian Vanfield, Norris, Jada Pinkett Smith,
Speaker 1: Amanda Brown and Fallon jethro Co executive producer sim Hoti
Speaker 1: segment producer Ash Francis, associate producer Erica Ron, editor and
Speaker 1: mixer Calvin Bayliss. Positively gam Is in partnership with Art
Speaker 1: nineteen Stop seven